Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average person is
Speaker 1: never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.
Speaker 1: If you listen to part one of my conversation with
Speaker 1: Gaz right, you'll know just how dark his life had gotten.
Speaker 1: From feared underworld figure to desperate junkie. His enemies smelt
Speaker 1: blood in the water, and they came for him, stabbings, beating, gunshots.
Speaker 1: Karma doesn't pull punches, and with serious jail time looming,
Speaker 1: Gaz faced a choice continue the downward spiral or leave
Speaker 1: his life with violence and crime. Behind, against all odds,
Speaker 1: he chose the latter. This is a story of how
Speaker 1: he did it. Gazz right, Welcome back to Part two
Speaker 1: of I Catch Killers. That's gay Part one not much
Speaker 1: fun taking you through all the heavy stuff. How does
Speaker 1: it feel reliving it?
Speaker 2: Ah, You know, I spoke to you prior to the interview.
Speaker 2: You know, I said, you know, some people have invited
Speaker 2: me to come on their podcast and they just want
Speaker 2: to hear the war stories. They want to hear the
Speaker 2: jail stabbings and the shootings and you know, all the stuff.
Speaker 2: And at the start of my I call it a
Speaker 2: healing journey, but some people would say, you know, social
Speaker 2: media journey. That's all I had to ifell is war stories.
Speaker 2: It just doesn't do it for me anymore. You know,
Speaker 2: it doesn't land. It doesn't stimulate me. You know, I
Speaker 2: get no endorphin hits from talking about the old life.
Speaker 2: I understand it's part of my story, got to sometimes
Speaker 2: tell it, but it doesn't interest me. Man, There's no
Speaker 2: passion for that life anymore. It's just part of my story.
Speaker 2: And like I said, I acknowledge that it is part
Speaker 2: of my story, and I wouldn't change it because it's
Speaker 2: made me who I am today. But what I'm doing
Speaker 2: is way bigger than anything I've ever done. From the streets.
Speaker 1: I understand that I look out in the true crime
Speaker 1: space because people are fascinated with it. But I think
Speaker 1: a large majority of people that fascinate with true crime
Speaker 1: have never really experienced it. So I understand that they
Speaker 1: want to look into the dark side of the world
Speaker 1: and see what's going on. I find the interest in
Speaker 1: looking a little bit deeper and seeing what comes out
Speaker 1: of it. I've seen the consequences of crime in the
Speaker 1: most horrible ways, but seeing the people who have come
Speaker 1: through that world, they're the things that rock my boat
Speaker 1: to how people can turn their life around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because some people, especially you would come from a
Speaker 2: lot of police officers have this mentality once a crime,
Speaker 2: always a crime. I'm pretty sure there's probably some ones
Speaker 2: out there that still think, Ay, it's just a front,
Speaker 2: it's just a throwoff washing money or who who knows
Speaker 2: what their thoughts are. But man, I know in my trice,
Speaker 2: in my heart, I know my journey, I know my story.
Speaker 2: No one knows it better than me. And you know,
Speaker 2: I've learned to love and not hate, and I've learned
Speaker 2: to help and not hurt. It's a beautiful thing. Man.
Speaker 2: I can honestly say I'm half a healed human and
Speaker 2: I'm doing the right thing the wrong thing, And it's
Speaker 2: all about leaving a legacy, you know, and resetting my
Speaker 2: comic debt. I know when I'm leave this world, I'm
Speaker 2: going to leave it. We've done more right than wrong.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was some bad times and now I did
Speaker 2: some wrong things. I was a nasty person. I'm not
Speaker 2: going to lie about it, but there's going to be
Speaker 2: a majority of being a good person that overrides that.
Speaker 1: Well. I encourage people if they can turn their life around,
Speaker 1: and I know what you're saying. And then in the
Speaker 1: cops is a fairly you know, black and white thinking
Speaker 1: we're doing the job, we're putting the bad guys away,
Speaker 1: and then you move on to the next thing. But
Speaker 1: I think society because now I'm a member of society.
Speaker 1: I'm not in the cops anymore. It benefits if people
Speaker 1: can turn their life around, because better off you healing
Speaker 1: yourself and contributing back to society. That is, still they
Speaker 1: aren't going to get harder in the world of crime.
Speaker 2: And then it comes to that of saying, you know,
Speaker 2: people want to be relatable, like, Okay, we go through
Speaker 2: a divorce and you're speaking to someone about going through
Speaker 2: a divorce and that person's never been through a divorce.
Speaker 2: Going through addiction and you're speaking to someone about your addiction,
Speaker 2: that person's never been addicted to drugs, it makes no sense.
Speaker 2: You know, if we've gone through issues in life or
Speaker 2: we're trying to grow, you want to talk to someone
Speaker 2: that's been through what you're going through.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm a big believer in using life experiences to
Speaker 1: educate people. Whether it's at the juvenile stage, which is
Speaker 1: probably most important where you can steer them in the
Speaker 1: right direction, or whether it's at adult prison. Then you're
Speaker 1: an example of someone that can turn their life around
Speaker 1: when you're a low point. You've had the highs of
Speaker 1: the gangster, the loads of being a junkie, and you're
Speaker 1: sitting here and doing something worthwhile. We've got a couple
Speaker 1: of videos here. We've you getting your first job, because
Speaker 1: I think that that's important. Play it all and we'll
Speaker 1: count this in the podcast, but I just want you
Speaker 1: to have a look at this and talk talk me
Speaker 1: through it.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, a quick job update. The other day on
Speaker 2: the weekend, I was getting a couple of beers from
Speaker 2: the Bottlow just round the corner from my joy from
Speaker 2: my drive fruit and asked them to any jobs. They said, yeah,
Speaker 2: they're looking for work, so they'd be good. They wanted
Speaker 2: my resume. No, I wasn't ready to apply for a job.
Speaker 2: I just saw it. Pop in there and see what
Speaker 2: that said, and then so now go get my resume.
Speaker 2: So anyway, yeah, that sounds good. That'd be good that too.
Speaker 2: They'd be a good gig that one.
Speaker 1: I got the job.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm wrapped. I got the gig at the bottom shop.
Speaker 2: They invited me to join the team. Caught me up today,
Speaker 2: went down there. It's all good. He's what it is.
Speaker 2: But fucking I'm not going to lie. It's a bit daunting. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a bit daunting, it is. I don't know. The
Speaker 2: unknown is always fucking scary in that. But I'm pumped.
Speaker 2: You know, it's just a it's a positive direction, you know,
Speaker 2: positive start, man, leave that fucking off bind me.
Speaker 1: I can see the excitement on your face. Okay, you're
Speaker 1: obviously a different person from who you were. Then to
Speaker 1: hear how long ago were.
Speaker 2: That that's four years ago.
Speaker 1: Look at your proud of yourself struggling around. You've got
Speaker 1: yourself a job, You've become like a severe and playing
Speaker 1: taxes and all that sort.
Speaker 2: Of ironic thing is the job was at a bottle shop.
Speaker 2: So you know, I just walked away from a Korea
Speaker 2: pushing poison into my community and then becoming poison and
Speaker 2: so like, let's be honest. Alcohol is poison. It's just
Speaker 2: legal and it's run by the government. So what was
Speaker 2: I going to go do, you know, push poison for
Speaker 2: the government and think it was okay. My dad died
Speaker 2: from alcohol. He drank himself, So yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't think that was my truth. Linked Yeah, but it's ironic.
Speaker 2: When I was there's another video when I was actually
Speaker 2: handing in the resume to the bottle shop. I rang
Speaker 2: a mate. It was a little bit into social media,
Speaker 2: and he said, what are you doing. I was in
Speaker 2: Cans at that time, so I'd gone up to Cans
Speaker 2: to get a breath of fresh air, leave the life
Speaker 2: of addiction behind and life of crime. And anyway, I
Speaker 2: rang him and I said, he goes, what are you doing?
Speaker 2: I said, I'm just handing the resume to the bottle shop.
Speaker 2: I said, I'm trying to get a gig down here,
Speaker 2: so I get some money in my pocket and I said,
Speaker 2: you know, what are you up to? I said, oh,
Speaker 2: come see you for a coffee when I'm done. And
Speaker 2: he goes, are you documenting this? And I said, no,
Speaker 2: should I be? He goes, whoa ex criminal X drug
Speaker 2: addicts getting his first job handing the resume? Because social
Speaker 2: media loves that stuff. I said, okay, then I didn't
Speaker 2: have a clues. The first time I made accounts, I'd
Speaker 2: never had a social media account, was a pinch where
Speaker 2: I come from. And so I grabbed the phone and
Speaker 2: I started recording, and that when I'm actually handing in
Speaker 2: the resume, it went viral. And so the ironic thing is,
Speaker 2: you know, I look back on it now, I reckon,
Speaker 2: the red into the bottle shop wasn't the real resume.
Speaker 2: It was the resume into social media. I reckon, That's
Speaker 2: the truth of it. You know, that was the real
Speaker 2: path I was meant to take. And so yeah, once
Speaker 2: I got that viral video, you know, like any opportunists,
Speaker 2: which criminals are, I was going to take it by
Speaker 2: the balls and run with it.
Speaker 1: And you said, you didn't understand. I'm sure you didn't
Speaker 1: understand the impact of social media and the run with.
Speaker 2: All I knew is I spoke to my mate and
Speaker 2: all I knew is he broke it down like this.
Speaker 2: He said, Okay, you know you've got a brand. He said,
Speaker 2: your tattoo's that old life, You've got a story, you know,
Speaker 2: your dog all that's what we call a social media package.
Speaker 2: You know, you can build a brand off the back
Speaker 2: of that. Said, how many people do you think are
Speaker 2: going to show up for the next ten years and
Speaker 2: post every day? And then he goes, how many in Australia?
Speaker 2: How many people got in Australia? How many people you
Speaker 2: actually reckon they're going to do that small number? Who
Speaker 2: goes if you're one of those numbers, He goes, you'll
Speaker 2: kill it. No brain. I just had to post every
Speaker 2: day from there and I have you know, for the
Speaker 2: next four years, I've got over a million followers. I
Speaker 2: was collective on social media and that's from posting every day.
Speaker 2: It was that simple in my head. Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1: Good on that mate for seeing seeing the logic there.
Speaker 1: I'd like you mentioned your dog. It's a staffy by
Speaker 1: looks of it.
Speaker 2: Staffy the world's best dogs, the best. Yeah, Bonnie, she's
Speaker 2: the best. She's famous too. I see some people sometimes
Speaker 2: and they're like, can I get a photo? And so, yeah,
Speaker 2: where's Bonnie. You're more interested in Bonnie than they are me,
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's and it's hard. Let's just talk about
Speaker 1: how hard it is to turn your life around. First
Speaker 1: of how did you kick the kick the drugs.
Speaker 2: I got to a stage where I was done. I
Speaker 2: broken my ankle. Jumped off a roof and broken my ankle,
Speaker 2: so I was hobbling around. I went to the hospital.
Speaker 2: The hospital said you need to have that plast and
Speaker 2: maybe operated, and I said, I've got to go get
Speaker 2: on pretty much. I'm out. I just need next ray.
Speaker 2: Just give me a pair of crutches. So I hobbled
Speaker 2: it off for the next six months, and in that
Speaker 2: time of not being able to put weight on my foot,
Speaker 2: I was addicted to drugs. I was in trap houses.
Speaker 2: I'd ended up in a back bed bedroom. The house
Speaker 2: had been shot up two nights running, so it got
Speaker 2: shot up one night and got shot up the next.
Speaker 2: Everybody in that house had left. I was in the
Speaker 2: back bedroom, and I woke up in the morning and
Speaker 2: the deal was, I to go get high again. This
Speaker 2: is going to be sick because I was on heroin too,
Speaker 2: and I'd had enough. I just I can remember thinking
Speaker 2: in my head that if I don't get clean, I'm
Speaker 2: going to die. Because I had three ods in my
Speaker 2: active addiction where I've been brought back to life, you know,
Speaker 2: like I said, the stabbings of shootings, all the stuff.
Speaker 2: I got to a time where I just knew if
Speaker 2: I didn't get clean, I was going to end up dead.
Speaker 2: And I remember that morning. I thought, I can't go
Speaker 2: get on. I've been doing this four years now, you know.
Speaker 2: This bender went on for four years, and I thought,
Speaker 2: if I go get on again, there's another weak cycle
Speaker 2: of getting high and moves in the next one. So
Speaker 2: I rang my brother, my middle brother shout out to Robbie,
Speaker 2: you know, and I rang him and I said, man,
Speaker 2: I've had enough, and he goes, We've heard this before.
Speaker 2: I said I've had enough, rob you know, I was
Speaker 2: in tears. I said, I can't do this anymore, man,
Speaker 2: I said, I'm going to end up dead. And I
Speaker 2: knew that I had more to offer to society. To myself,
Speaker 2: you know, my legacy, all that than going out in
Speaker 2: a back bedroom as a junkie. And he goes, I'm
Speaker 2: going to ring you tomorrow. He goes, because I've heard
Speaker 2: you say this before in the last four years. He goes,
Speaker 2: I'm going to ring you tomorrow, and I see where
Speaker 2: you're at. And he rang me the next day, probably
Speaker 2: about twenty four hours later, and I was in the
Speaker 2: same position I had moved. By this time. Will drawers
Speaker 2: started to kick in. You know, I was a mess.
Speaker 2: It was dry, reaching and hadn't eaten, hadn't slept, sweating,
Speaker 2: and he goes, where are you sitting in the same
Speaker 2: place I was yesterday morning? And he goes, yeah, you really.
Speaker 2: I said, mate, I'm fucking you know, I'm done. And
Speaker 2: he's like, and what, you don't want to ask me
Speaker 2: to lend you any money or anything like that. I
Speaker 2: said no, I said, I'm fucking done, man. I said, Rob,
Speaker 2: I'm really laid down to die like that's it. I'm
Speaker 2: just done. I said, I can't do this anymore. Obviously
Speaker 2: it was an emotional speaking to a family. And then
Speaker 2: he goes, all right, he goes, I like the sound
Speaker 2: of this. He goes, I'm gonna give you one more day.
Speaker 2: He guys are going to bring you tomorrow morning. He goes,
Speaker 2: If you're in the same position, he goes, oh, come
Speaker 2: get ya. He rang me the next morning. I was there,
Speaker 2: you know, so I just done forty eight hours and
Speaker 2: I was in fucking I was in a bad spot.
Speaker 2: You know this times, cramp and diarrhea and vomiting, you know,
Speaker 2: all the stuff, sweats, shakes, cramps, all the stuff. And
Speaker 2: he doesn't come and get yea, And they come grab me,
Speaker 2: took me up to his house and put me in
Speaker 2: a bedroom in the back room at his house. And
Speaker 2: that was it. Man, I just knew I just had
Speaker 2: to survive the next two to three weeks, just get through.
Speaker 2: There was no chance of me walking out the front door,
Speaker 2: of climbing through a window and going getting on. There
Speaker 2: was not even if a bit about it, because as
Speaker 2: soon as I got clean, my whole life was about
Speaker 2: to start. And I just laid there, man, I just
Speaker 2: laid there. They pretty much brought me in plates of
Speaker 2: food and that was it it. It took me a
Speaker 2: week to crawl to the bathroom before I could have
Speaker 2: a shower, and I just did it the old school way,
Speaker 2: white knuckled it, as we said, dried out. And that's it. Man,
Speaker 2: My life has been bliss ever since.
Speaker 1: I can see the emotions just talking about thinking about.
Speaker 2: The massive turning point in my life. Yeah, it's massive, huge,
Speaker 2: one of the biggest demons I ever had to conquer.
Speaker 2: But I like to I like to think I'm built.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm built right, I was built for it.
Speaker 2: You know, some people maybe would have buckled. I didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I got clean. It was about the three week mark.
Speaker 2: I remember I was able to sit at the table
Speaker 2: now talk and my mum would come up, and my
Speaker 2: other brother would come up, and we'd have a family
Speaker 2: dinner and it'd start to you know, get some sleep
Speaker 2: by now and have a shower and starting to do
Speaker 2: some push ups in the garage and take Bonnie for
Speaker 2: a walk, and you know, and then it would have
Speaker 2: been about the fourth fifth week mark. It's starting to
Speaker 2: feel a lot better. I mean I still look at
Speaker 2: those first videos, you know, and I was, yeah, you go, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's really taking its toll on me. People in the
Speaker 2: area thought I got sick. Sick, like people were saying,
Speaker 2: is he got cancer, aes or something? Because I was
Speaker 2: that I look like skeletor. No one had ever seen
Speaker 2: me that light, you know, that was just skin and bones.
Speaker 2: And people were actually like, I don't think it's drugs.
Speaker 2: I think he's actually sick, sick like you know, And
Speaker 2: that's how bad I looked. Anyway, I was sitting at
Speaker 2: the table and I remember saying, I spoken to a
Speaker 2: mate that was like into social media, and he told
Speaker 2: me about this brand. And I hadn't even I was
Speaker 2: still in Melbourne, you know, and I hadn't even left
Speaker 2: yet to go get start my journey. And I turned
Speaker 2: around to my family and they remember this, and I
Speaker 2: said I might give this social media shit a crack,
Speaker 2: and they thought, oh, of course you will.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: But I'm really good at manifesting. You know, when I
Speaker 2: see something, I can smell it, I can feel it.
Speaker 2: I us nine out of ten times I have been
Speaker 2: able to do this since I was a kid. I
Speaker 2: could make it happen. And so yeah, man went up Todate.
Speaker 2: They got me a ticket, one way ticket with me
Speaker 2: and my dog, flewing my dog up to Cans, nothing
Speaker 2: but the clothes on my back. My mate put me
Speaker 2: up in an airbnbare Airbnb for a month and let's
Speaker 2: see what happens. I started documenting my life, my new life,
Speaker 2: which was left out.
Speaker 1: Of document documenting the journey and.
Speaker 2: Documenting the journey, and that's it. Man, what a journey.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Kansas a beautiful place up there, very grounding, very grounding,
Speaker 2: you know, a.
Speaker 1: Lot going for it. The fact that you're documenting like that,
Speaker 1: I would imagine that's almost not a safety in there.
Speaker 1: But it makes it hard for you to go back because, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is what I'm doing. You'd hate to lose your
Speaker 1: way on that journey because you'd feel like a hypocritical.
Speaker 2: Yeah, keep me accountable. It was like it was video diary. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was a video diary, journal, journal, but I'm putting
Speaker 2: it out to the world. Yeah, so it's letting them
Speaker 2: judge you to see what they There would have been
Speaker 2: a lot of naysay, okay, where is this gonna again?
Speaker 2: That fail the junkie on social media they were saying,
Speaker 2: this guy's cooked because all those videos where I was
Speaker 2: carrying on, I was like six weeks clean. Yeah, eight
Speaker 2: weeks clean, you know, moving into three months clean type deal.
Speaker 2: So I still had this lot in my system. I
Speaker 2: had all these demons from the old life. I didn't
Speaker 2: know how to talk.
Speaker 1: I did a deep dive on you last night, and
Speaker 1: there was a lot that there was still a lot
Speaker 1: going on. Oh yeah, when there's.
Speaker 2: A lot of pain, Yeah, a lot of pain in there.
Speaker 2: And I see a hurt little boy in those videos.
Speaker 2: You know, that's what That's what it is. But had
Speaker 2: this so much armor. No one's going to get me.
Speaker 2: I'll hurt them before they hurt me. And I couldn't
Speaker 2: even see that back then, but now I look, that's
Speaker 2: what I see, And yeah, that's what was coming across.
Speaker 2: And I'm telling the story. Is still talking tough. It
Speaker 2: seemed like I was you knowing you had the jail swagger. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I GLORI it looked like I was glorifying the life.
Speaker 2: But I just knew I had to show up on
Speaker 2: social media and turn heads my way. I come from
Speaker 2: a strategic life, so there was a lot of method
Speaker 2: to my madness. I knew exactly what I was doing.
Speaker 2: I wanted to tell the stories because when I talked about, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, so I had a good day today, I
Speaker 2: took my dog for a walk, no one cared. But
Speaker 2: this time I got in a punch on in prison,
Speaker 2: bundreds of thousands of video views, you know, the video popped.
Speaker 2: So it was all about planning the sea, getting people related,
Speaker 2: will you know, looking my way? And it was a
Speaker 2: lot of a negative attention, but as they say in
Speaker 2: that game, any attention is good attention.
Speaker 1: Well, you would have to be resilient there because there
Speaker 1: would have been a lot of I would imagine a
Speaker 1: lot of people attacking you, going here we go again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what is in the joke on them?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got to prove who got the last laughing?
Speaker 1: You know, I like you virtually burnt the escape route
Speaker 1: away once you started posting publicly. So is that how
Speaker 1: you started to earn a living? And yes, tell us
Speaker 1: about your your evolving into becoming a citizen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, the first step was I started
Speaker 2: creative income and that was on TikTok. So I built
Speaker 2: a community on TikTok and I started live streaming. And
Speaker 2: then there was this battle scene on TikTok where you know,
Speaker 2: your community could gift you and that gifts transferring to money,
Speaker 2: and so like, you know, if we're me battled on TikTok,
Speaker 2: let's say you've got a community, you've got a following.
Speaker 2: I've got Mike you need, I've got my following. They're
Speaker 2: set off in these battles and we've got a five
Speaker 2: minute round and there's times, two points and all this
Speaker 2: other jargon. And then you know, my community trying to
Speaker 2: gift me more than your community to give you, and
Speaker 2: I become the winner. And then there's a whole ranking thing,
Speaker 2: you know. So you've got a top hundred every week.
Speaker 1: Well, if you challenge me the battle on Tiktach, I
Speaker 1: think I'm fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't battled over probably about two years now.
Speaker 2: But it was all part of the journey. And I
Speaker 2: created an income and I created some good money, you know.
Speaker 2: And so from there we moved down back down to
Speaker 2: Victoria because I was with a mate. He was up
Speaker 2: there too. He got clean, but that's a whole other
Speaker 2: side of the story. And so we traveled down together.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean, you know, I got my license.
Speaker 1: How did that feel for the first time driving around
Speaker 1: knowing if the cops pulled you over?
Speaker 2: It was a full on drama. I was forty man
Speaker 2: and got a license. I had to sit my ols
Speaker 2: and that, Yeah, did.
Speaker 1: You get around in place.
Speaker 2: Yea, Yeah, it was a full on had to have
Speaker 2: a license driving next to me, And did.
Speaker 1: You wear your peep plates? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I did all with deal. Yeah, I'm pretty like pretty
Speaker 2: even my friends would tell me, you know, like today
Speaker 2: they're like, you're so straight, you know, even jaywalk Man,
Speaker 2: Like they're like, we're just parking.
Speaker 1: Now I'll get told I.
Speaker 2: Can't, you know, like I'm pretty pretty clean cut now.
Speaker 2: I like to do the right thing as much. I'll
Speaker 2: give you a lot of energy doing the right thing.
Speaker 2: But anyway, it was fun. You know. It was all
Speaker 2: the whole new world, this whole bank accounts and now
Speaker 2: I've just getting on my tax sorted and they we
Speaker 2: just paid a big tax bill and like all this
Speaker 2: stuff's new. I'm like, whall, you know, I just got
Speaker 2: a bookkeeper on board for the business and all this stuff.
Speaker 2: This it's just been a journey of learning and growth,
Speaker 2: this whole new world.
Speaker 1: How did that narrowsh you personally?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Did this feel more fulfilling? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was exciting because it was a
Speaker 2: whole new world and I decided to do the right thing,
Speaker 2: and so yeah, it was. It was that there was
Speaker 2: days where it was hard it was a struggle because
Speaker 2: it was all foreign, it was all new to me.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's scratching my head. I'm confused as fuck, you know.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean I've got it. We're getting it.
Speaker 1: It's you know, is there any is there was there
Speaker 1: any temptation or any just fleeking moment where you thought,
Speaker 1: fuck it, I'm out here. I'm back to the old
Speaker 1: world at all.
Speaker 2: There's been there's been times I've been tested.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that that's the type of thing.
Speaker 2: I've been challenged. I've been challenged, but I think I'm
Speaker 2: strong enough to you know, I didn't do the whole rehab,
Speaker 2: the NA type deal. And Danny taught me a lot
Speaker 2: about that space. Danny was almost like a sponsor for me,
Speaker 2: and I didn't even know. He taught me a lot
Speaker 2: about addiction, you know, Danny Shannon shout out and let's and.
Speaker 1: We were having a laugh about Danny before we started recording.
Speaker 1: He's the world's happiest human, so happy, grateful, it could be,
Speaker 1: so positive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so like it was. That was handy. But
Speaker 2: I can honestly sit here and say I'll never touch
Speaker 2: drugs again. Whereas in the attic world that's like, don't
Speaker 2: sell yourself short. You know, the second that you say
Speaker 2: you won't touch drugs, maybe you will. I'm here the
Speaker 2: hurdle and Neil, it didn't work like that for me.
Speaker 2: I've got to say, there's something about you in the
Speaker 2: way that you're delivering it and talking about it. Give
Speaker 2: me the confidence because that's always my concern if someone's
Speaker 2: kicked drugs, Well, life gives you kicks in the guts
Speaker 2: and we're all going to get them, and whether that's
Speaker 2: something to draw your back, but there seems to be.
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Morgan would say, Gary, every lesson is a blessing,
Speaker 2: and I'm up for the challenge. Like it's not going
Speaker 2: to be all sunshines and rainbows. You know, there's going
Speaker 2: to be down days. There's going to be days that
Speaker 2: I'm tested. There's going to be challenges, There's going to
Speaker 2: be ups and downs. I'm up for the challenge. I
Speaker 2: get it because there's only that's where growth is without dark,
Speaker 2: there's no light.
Speaker 1: You've got good people around it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a huge supports. You know, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: know where to score if I tried, you know, Like
Speaker 2: you know, I've cut some really.
Speaker 1: Okay, I haven't heard that from someone here. But that's good,
Speaker 1: you know how far you've come from the world.
Speaker 2: And also I've cut some people off that, you know,
Speaker 2: I've known for thirty forty years. I challenged a bloke
Speaker 2: a few months ago. He got out, you know, I'd
Speaker 2: known him since we're kids. And what are you doing?
Speaker 2: What's his social media stuff and his breath works stuff?
Speaker 2: What's going on? And I talked to him for about
Speaker 2: twenty minutes, and I thought, man, I got to I've
Speaker 2: got to plan a set. I've got to, you know,
Speaker 2: see how this is going to go, because this could
Speaker 2: be a liability, you know. And he's talking about because
Speaker 2: he's on the phone to me, he's walking past. Man,
Speaker 2: I just walked past the Matt Merk. Wouldn't mind jumping
Speaker 2: in that, you know, you know, stepped away from you.
Speaker 2: And I said, so listen, if I was to if
Speaker 2: I was to meet up with you, I said, might
Speaker 2: I haven't used in over four years now, I said,
Speaker 2: If I was to meet up with you and you
Speaker 2: had something on you, I said, would you chop us
Speaker 2: out one time? Just one day out? You know, I said,
Speaker 2: and not tell no one. I said, you wouldn't lagged me,
Speaker 2: would you. Of course, I wouldn't gas up. Make you
Speaker 2: deserve it? He goes, you deserve it? Made one day out?
Speaker 2: He goes, it's only one day mate, He goes, I'll
Speaker 2: chop you out. And I wouldn't say nothing, I promise.
Speaker 2: He goes My words, my word said thanks mate, thanks
Speaker 2: for that. When I got off the phone, I blocked
Speaker 2: him on every fucking account known to man. What's that
Speaker 2: fucking his phone number, his social media everything. He the
Speaker 2: only way he could contact me is if he knocked
Speaker 2: on my front door, and I doubt he'd have my dress.
Speaker 2: And you know, this is a friend that I've known,
Speaker 2: We've been through thick and thin together. I had to
Speaker 2: let go. I'm actually really good at that now. He's
Speaker 2: just cutting energy off when it doesn't serve me. And
Speaker 2: that was negative energy. He was a risk, he was
Speaker 2: a liability. He's got to go.
Speaker 1: I think that that's a really powerful statement. I want
Speaker 1: to break it down a little bit because I see
Speaker 1: people that fall back into old habits. But what a
Speaker 1: great test on it. That's clever. That's clever because that
Speaker 1: tells you exactly his mindset. Because I see like it
Speaker 1: might be friends, whether it's drugs or alcohol or whatever,
Speaker 1: and they're trying to do the right thing, and you
Speaker 1: see other people trying to drag him back in. Just
Speaker 1: come out. You know, someone will if they drink, they
Speaker 1: give him the shit because they do crazy stuff. They're
Speaker 1: not meant to drink. But they'll have friends that will say,
Speaker 1: I just have one. You'll be right, No one will know.
Speaker 1: I hate that sort of shit. And my brothers love
Speaker 1: a vier. Yeah.
Speaker 2: My brothers are both tradees. Yeah, beautiful houses, beautiful businesses,
Speaker 2: beautiful homes, kids, misses, all the traditional stuff. They're pretty solid.
Speaker 2: But you know on Grand Final Day or UFCS on
Speaker 2: or public holiday, they're smashing a six pack of jacks.
Speaker 1: They love it.
Speaker 2: I'll be in and out on those days. I'll pop in.
Speaker 2: I have a feet.
Speaker 1: I've got to go.
Speaker 2: Nothing against them, but I just I don't want to
Speaker 2: sit around the table for the next couple of hours
Speaker 2: and want to because you do you think I just one.
Speaker 1: Can You know youve got to You've got to stay
Speaker 1: strong and keep that keep that action up there. But
Speaker 1: that was why I was cutting someone like that, And
Speaker 1: it's hard, but you've got to protect yourself.
Speaker 2: No one's going to jeopardize my journey, you know. And
Speaker 2: I'm on a good path now. And I say, I
Speaker 2: say it, man, I love my mother before my heart.
Speaker 2: But and nothing She's done nothing wrong, you know, she's
Speaker 2: been challenged. But I do say one of my things,
Speaker 2: I say, if my own mon mother was to jeopardize
Speaker 2: my journey of doing the right thing, she'd have to go. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter who it is, right, it's so important.
Speaker 2: So I can honestly say that nothing's going to stop
Speaker 2: me doing the right thing in life.
Speaker 1: You know what the other stuff you're doing, breath work,
Speaker 1: talk us through that. It's all about.
Speaker 2: What happened next was after some TikTok battles and making
Speaker 2: in calm, I've got a little home rental, you know,
Speaker 2: some furniture. I got myself a little car, and I
Speaker 2: took about eighteen month or so to sort of set
Speaker 2: my life up and start to live like you or
Speaker 2: ainary civilian. I then started to do merch. I created
Speaker 2: hope cartel. I think it was actually Russell mansa rest
Speaker 2: in Peace. I got labeled on social media as the
Speaker 2: hope Dealer. He's no longer the dope dealer. He's the
Speaker 2: Hope Dealer. People used to say, and that's about you
Speaker 2: on social he used to deal dope, now he deals hope.
Speaker 2: From dope dealer to hope dealer. And so I got
Speaker 2: labeled the Hope Dealer. And we used to do these
Speaker 2: live streams where I'd have, you know, the Jeffrey Morgan's,
Speaker 2: the Russell Mansers, the Danny Shannon's, and we'd get you
Speaker 2: the Glenn Fishes. We get this group together and we'd
Speaker 2: spit some wisdom about the old life being shithouse and
Speaker 2: all the stuff. And I remember Russ one night he said, look,
Speaker 2: I said, look at us, all a bunch of hope dealers.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: He's like yeah, and he's like yeah, he goes Hope Cartel.
Speaker 2: That's what he mentioned, I said her. And as soon
Speaker 2: as he said it, like Bob, I thought, that is
Speaker 2: killer Hope Cartel. That's going to be the brand go
Speaker 2: straight away, I reckon. Within a couple of months of that,
Speaker 2: I registered that name as a business. We've got my
Speaker 2: brothers to help me. Got an ABN registered as a
Speaker 2: business and paid for the name and the business name
Speaker 2: and yeah, and then it started to the Hope Cartel.
Speaker 2: We built this community, Hope Cartel. Gary's the Hope Dealer.
Speaker 2: No longer the Dope Dealer. He's the owner of Hope Cartel.
Speaker 2: When I was doing merchandise, that was the start of
Speaker 2: Hope Cartel. I just started pumping out merchant and be honest, goes,
Speaker 2: I flipped batches of merch like I used to flip
Speaker 2: batches a gear. You know, I drop a dollar for
Speaker 2: a hundred hoodies and I get a dollar back on them,
Speaker 2: you know, type deal. And it was the same old
Speaker 2: method that I was used to.
Speaker 1: But now so you're a business man, you're just legitimizing
Speaker 1: your business. Yeah, and then people were buying into it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they loved it.
Speaker 1: They lapped it up.
Speaker 2: And so you know, at that stage, all I really
Speaker 2: was doing is offering knowledge, you know, through my social
Speaker 2: media and selling some hoodies and getting gifted on TikTok
Speaker 2: like it was, you know, like you've got more, I've
Speaker 2: got more to give, but let's see where this will
Speaker 2: take us. And I got off by an absolute gentleman.
Speaker 2: Big part of my mentorship leadership. You know, I've got
Speaker 2: a bunch of blokes, Jeffrey Morgan, Danny Shannon, what Tani
Speaker 2: his name is they're calling Wah. And he's the owner
Speaker 2: of a business called a Men'd Movement, deals with men's
Speaker 2: mental health workshops, helping men take the armor off, take
Speaker 2: the mask off, and deal with you know, what's inside,
Speaker 2: what we're suppressing, and acknowledge, you know, our shame and
Speaker 2: guilt we might have, but also forgiveness and learn to
Speaker 2: be a better man, because a man is a foundation
Speaker 2: of the home. Let's be honest, A happy man's a
Speaker 2: happy home. And whiles out there, you know, teaching men
Speaker 2: to be you know, positive masculine men, men that are protectors,
Speaker 2: they're providers, but they're also loving, nurturing men as well.
Speaker 2: You know, I think that's a beautiful balance of a
Speaker 2: man and I've never seen this before. And then Yo, Wah.
Speaker 2: He reached out to me on social media. We did
Speaker 2: a live together, and then he reached out to me
Speaker 2: afterwards and he said, I believe you have a gift
Speaker 2: to help a lot of people. He said, let me
Speaker 2: help you heal so you can help others heal. And
Speaker 2: he offered me a ticket, a free ticket for me
Speaker 2: and my mate Sawney. You know, he's the guy we
Speaker 2: I come down from Cans with. He'd gotten clean and
Speaker 2: headed up CANS prior to me going to Cans and
Speaker 2: then we've been on this healing journey together. And so
Speaker 2: me and Shawney went to one of Ware's workshops and
Speaker 2: it's a full day workshop. You get there at nine o'clock,
Speaker 2: you don't leave till six. And these these blokes are
Speaker 2: all big built blokes. They're in the gym, they get tattoos,
Speaker 2: they're men's men, but they're so loving, they're so caring,
Speaker 2: they're so nurturing. But also you see the provider and
Speaker 2: the protector in them, you know, and you're like, wow,
Speaker 2: I've never seen this. I'd never seen a man like
Speaker 2: that in my life, you know, because when you've seen
Speaker 2: someone that was you know, positive masculine energy, they come
Speaker 2: across soft, you know. Or if you've seen a man
Speaker 2: that was hard and you know they had that stoic mentality,
Speaker 2: then it was that moved into that toxic sort of
Speaker 2: space and they had the perfect balance.
Speaker 1: Well, the environment you're in in jil everyone's bridged up
Speaker 1: and walking around with attitude and the SNAr. Okay, so
Speaker 1: you've well not stumbled, You've been invited into this, and
Speaker 1: you're saying you're saying something positive that you hadn't seen before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And at the end of this it was like
Speaker 2: a let's call it like a three course meal breakfast, lunch,
Speaker 2: and dinner, and then a dessert. The dessert at the
Speaker 2: end was breathwork. And the style that style of breath
Speaker 2: worker is holotropic yep. So it's an intense somatic breath
Speaker 2: and it causes the body to release it's called soma,
Speaker 2: so we call it soma. It's a short version and
Speaker 2: it's to release negative energy that the body holds onto.
Speaker 2: So we live experiences in life and what happens on
Speaker 2: the back of those experiences we feel them. That feeling
Speaker 2: is energy. Where does that does that energy go? It's
Speaker 2: called the body keeps score and the body holds onto
Speaker 2: that energy positive and negative. See we've got the memory,
Speaker 2: but connected to the experience or the memory is the feeling.
Speaker 2: The feeling is energy and the body actually holds onto
Speaker 2: that energy. So you know, this causes negative experiences with
Speaker 2: negative energy attached to it. The body's holding onto this
Speaker 2: causes us to drag our feet, anxiety, depression, you know,
Speaker 2: all the mental health diagnosis, addictional, The list goes on.
Speaker 2: And so this breath work is designed to release the
Speaker 2: negative energy out the body. Also combination of breath holds.
Speaker 2: Through the breath holds you activate dmt dimethyl trip to
Speaker 2: mean we're having the chemical we have in the body.
Speaker 2: We get a natural release of that when we're born,
Speaker 2: and when we die, you know that lays dormant for
Speaker 2: the rest of our lives. We can activate this dimethr
Speaker 2: trip to mean through this breath work as well. That's
Speaker 2: in the same category as plant based medicine. So we're
Speaker 2: talking mushrooms, aouas ga, you know, pyote, that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so it's this massive spiritual experience. It's almost
Speaker 2: it feels like a near death experience. Your life literally
Speaker 2: flashes before your eyes, all the good and the bad,
Speaker 2: and you release all this negative energy out the body
Speaker 2: at the same time through the somatic breath and it's
Speaker 2: something very hard to put into words, but when you do,
Speaker 2: it is life changing.
Speaker 1: Literally well listening and clearly something that's captivated your interest
Speaker 1: and the stuff that you can really understand. And I
Speaker 1: think in something like that, the deeper you go, the
Speaker 1: more you learn. But yeah, I'm not sitting here looking
Speaker 1: at you going what's this hippie dipshit. You're interested in breathwork,
Speaker 1: You've done something like I've done meditation, retreats, yoga, breathwork,
Speaker 1: chagoing from years gone by, so breathing, and I've just
Speaker 1: recent times doing something which is like vibration and sound
Speaker 1: which looks similar to what you're doing. You say it's
Speaker 1: like a trip. You come out and you feel different.
Speaker 1: Now is it spiritual? I don't know. I know how
Speaker 1: it makes me feel. I got through the cops for
Speaker 1: a very long time and my go to place was
Speaker 1: doing sort of meditation and breath work and different things,
Speaker 1: so I know it affects me in a positive way.
Speaker 1: Sort of recenters me, so I do understand. I think
Speaker 1: it's fascinating. It's alternative medicine, I think, but their science
Speaker 1: are starting to look into the type of stuff. I
Speaker 1: don't know the exact thing that you're doing, but I
Speaker 1: know how it can evoke emotions. I remember in Nepoll
Speaker 1: it breathing, sound, healing and different things like it was
Speaker 1: having a different impact on everyone in there when you.
Speaker 2: Released this negative energy. A lot of times that negative
Speaker 2: energy it comes out aggressively. It comes out. It's like
Speaker 2: sunshines and rainbows because it's negative energy. So on the
Speaker 2: back of that, it's usually cries and screams. It looks
Speaker 2: confronting to watch, but when you're going through it, it's
Speaker 2: so liberating, it's so cleansing. It's a beautiful experience. So,
Speaker 2: you know, we jumped on the mat for the first time.
Speaker 2: I had this massive experience and I literally never felt
Speaker 2: the same since.
Speaker 1: So tell us what it did for you. What was
Speaker 1: your personal experience.
Speaker 2: It's hard to put into words, so I had. You know,
Speaker 2: they call it, we call it in the space connecting
Speaker 2: with spirit. So you know, a lot of tribes for
Speaker 2: thousands of years have connected with spirit through plant based medicine.
Speaker 2: We do this through the power of our breath. Also,
Speaker 2: a bunch of frequencies in tones we run through headphones,
Speaker 2: so when you will beat subliminal messaging, everything's tuned to
Speaker 2: four hundred and thirty two hertz, which is a very
Speaker 2: known healing frequency, very special number NLP, you know, at
Speaker 2: least hypnotic suggestion, very powerful playlist. So it's almost like
Speaker 2: a blockbuster, that's what we call them. Journeys in the
Speaker 2: headphones and then guided by the owner of nine D
Speaker 2: Brian Kelly, which is an absolute legend. And so you've
Speaker 2: got this audio going on crazy. If you've heard of
Speaker 2: guided meditations through headphones, imagine that on steroids. You've got
Speaker 2: the eyemass helps you sit internal so there's no external distraction,
Speaker 2: and then you're breathing to activate the medicine. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: like a blueprint on life.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I had this hard, long look internally where i'd been,
Speaker 2: where I started, where I've been, and where I should
Speaker 2: be going. And I also had a lot of people
Speaker 2: that have passed on come and visit me. So when
Speaker 2: I connected with spirit, you know, my dad come to
Speaker 2: visit me, my nanam Pop, some mates that are passed on.
Speaker 2: I felt like I was laying on my hospital and
Speaker 2: they're all standing over me. It's this beautiful experience, very
Speaker 2: connected with universe, universe, self source spirit, massive, huge experience,
Speaker 2: very very spiritual. You know, I believe our spirit is
Speaker 2: our soul. I believe our soul has always been here.
Speaker 2: You know, we're living this human, physical, external, conscious reality
Speaker 2: wherein now I believe we've been here before and we'll
Speaker 2: be here again. Our souls eternal energy never lies and
Speaker 2: it never dies. So when you connect with a soul,
Speaker 2: our true essence, our energy, our spirit. You know, you
Speaker 2: look through this lens of life and it all seems
Speaker 2: pretty trivia. You know. I could understand the wounds I had,
Speaker 2: and I could let go of some of those wounds,
Speaker 2: you know, and also, you know, have a hard, long
Speaker 2: look at us outside of this vessel just energy.
Speaker 1: How long have you been doing this shit?
Speaker 2: I've been doing it for about nearly three years now.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you've got the history of it. I see
Speaker 1: sometimes I see people come into different things I've been into.
Speaker 1: I call them the amway. They walk in and they
Speaker 1: come out so excited that they've just discovered the meaning
Speaker 1: to life, and it doesn't pan out. But if you've
Speaker 1: been doing it for three years, and.
Speaker 2: I've used a lot of other tools too, that's one
Speaker 2: tool in the backpack.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of others, but that's that's our staple.
Speaker 2: And so yeah. I remember sitting up for my first
Speaker 2: session with wa and I looked him straight eyes and
Speaker 2: I said, Man, how do I become a facilitator? I said,
Speaker 2: I've found my purpose right then, and now I knew
Speaker 2: because I've been looking for a solution my whole life
Speaker 2: obviously had some issues growing up the way I did,
Speaker 2: and I've been looking for solution, but that solution was
Speaker 2: always external. It was always an external solution for an
Speaker 2: internal problem. And what I found that day when I
Speaker 2: laid on the mat and I breathed, is the solution
Speaker 2: was sitting here the whole time. It was right next
Speaker 2: to the problem. I had the solution. I had all
Speaker 2: the answers. I just didn't know how to get to them.
Speaker 2: And Ward showed me how to get to them. And
Speaker 2: so as soon as I found the solution, I found
Speaker 2: my purpose. I knew right then and am my purpose
Speaker 2: was to show the world this. I had to teach
Speaker 2: the world what I'd just been taught, which is the
Speaker 2: gift that we already have. It's how powerful we really
Speaker 2: are when we come back to self. And so yeah,
Speaker 2: I went on a mission to just breathe as much
Speaker 2: as I could, to show up at the workshops, to
Speaker 2: do the work on self, to do the internal work.
Speaker 2: And yeah, now I ended up becoming a facilitator for
Speaker 2: about eighteen months after the fact of starting my healing journey,
Speaker 2: literally proper healing, not just wanting to live.
Speaker 1: A better life.
Speaker 2: I'd started to work within and focus on the wounds
Speaker 2: and unpack the negative energy my body had been holding
Speaker 2: onto from my experiences in life. And I suppose that's
Speaker 2: why the way I talk and walk the way I
Speaker 2: do today, because I'm unpacking all this shit that the
Speaker 2: body was suppressing.
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't know you beforehand, but I saw the
Speaker 1: earlier videos and I'm seeing who I'm sitting here talking
Speaker 1: to now. There's a difference. There's a calmness about you,
Speaker 1: and I don't mind experimenting in different things. And I
Speaker 1: think some things work for one person that might work
Speaker 1: for the other. But I got no problems with people
Speaker 1: who have found something that works for them. Like I've
Speaker 1: had people I'm not religious, I've had people sitting here
Speaker 1: and yeah, I turned my life around because I found God.
Speaker 1: Well that's what I say, Like, Okay, well that's cool.
Speaker 1: It doesn't it's not for me, but if it works
Speaker 1: works for you others physical training, and I think what
Speaker 1: you're doing with the breath work still works with the
Speaker 1: physical train. That's not not exclusive. But good on you
Speaker 1: that you found something that works for you. And there's
Speaker 1: a calmness about you. Because I was looking at some
Speaker 1: of your past stuff and I think, Okay, where are
Speaker 1: we going with this? But I felt when you walked
Speaker 1: in the room, there's an energy.
Speaker 2: People can't understand it because it's just like, you know,
Speaker 2: the way I say, it's like taking an eki. You
Speaker 2: try and explain taking an eki, you won't get it
Speaker 2: until you've took one. You just can't put it into words.
Speaker 2: It's exactly the same. You won't get it until you've
Speaker 2: tried it. Once you've tried it, everybody falls in love
Speaker 2: with it because you find out that we have the answers.
Speaker 1: You know, what are some of the examples of people
Speaker 1: that you've helped, Oh.
Speaker 2: Some of the winds Man well has some huge Trade's
Speaker 2: a funny one, traders. We get tradees on the mat
Speaker 2: and that's a funny one because you know, we get
Speaker 2: a lot of people that come in and they've lived
Speaker 2: they lived a pretty healthy life. Man. Their parents worked hard,
Speaker 2: and they had all the toys and the holidays and
Speaker 2: presents under the trees, and then they went into you know,
Speaker 2: working and they've worked hard themselves, and they've got the
Speaker 2: nice houses and the business and all the jet skis
Speaker 2: and the cars, and the kids are going away for
Speaker 2: holidays and so it's great. Yeah, exterior looks good. But
Speaker 2: these blokes that work for twenty plus years, when they're
Speaker 2: riddled with anxiety depression, you know, they know nothing more
Speaker 2: than they get on the tools and it does. It
Speaker 2: takes us toll on the body, and so when we
Speaker 2: get them on the mat we get funny results. A
Speaker 2: lot of times is they throw their jobs in They
Speaker 2: say this, I can't do this for the next twenty years.
Speaker 2: After they've had this massive spiritual experience and they come out, Man,
Speaker 2: I've just sold my house. What do you mean you
Speaker 2: sold your house? I you get a caravan. I'm taking
Speaker 2: the family and we've traveled Australia. Well, just from your job.
Speaker 2: What do you mean you're through an your job. I'm
Speaker 2: going to become a social worker. We hear of it
Speaker 2: all the time, and then you know, they're great wins
Speaker 2: because people just want to live life more present. You know,
Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense to him to just have the
Speaker 2: tunnel vision on after they've had this massive experience.
Speaker 1: It's interesting you mentioned tradesman like I started off in
Speaker 1: the building trade before I joined the cops. I know
Speaker 1: people have continued in the building trade and it does
Speaker 1: take a tolerance body like it's hard physical work and
Speaker 1: a day in, day out. But in that space too,
Speaker 1: they don't get the opportunity to even think about their
Speaker 1: emotions or Yeah.
Speaker 2: It can be a toxic environment.
Speaker 1: Well it's the job. When I went through it, very
Speaker 1: bloky environment. I would imagine it's still pretty much the same.
Speaker 1: I don't rock up to a building site and you ask, hey, Gary,
Speaker 1: how are you feeling. I'm not feeling really good today.
Speaker 1: I guess that conversation doesn't That doesn't land at all.
Speaker 1: So I can imagine that it opens up new ways
Speaker 1: of thinking. Had a younger people a few months ago.
Speaker 1: He had a great relationship in his partners and young
Speaker 1: in his early twenties, got on the mat, went home
Speaker 1: after the session and said, I love you.
Speaker 2: And you've that they're nothing anything wrong to me. But
Speaker 2: I've got to go. What do you mean, You've got
Speaker 2: to go? Grab the backpack and he's traveling the world.
Speaker 2: He said, I've got to go live. I said, I'll
Speaker 2: come back, but I've got to go. Yeah, Like this
Speaker 2: is the stuff that breathwork does. Yes, it releases negative
Speaker 2: energy and you know, we can deal with anxiety and
Speaker 2: depression and trauma and all the stuff because that's really
Speaker 2: what it is. You know, when negative energy is pain, hurts, stress, tension, emotion, trauma.
Speaker 2: You know, it's all these things. And so when you
Speaker 2: release that, we start to look through a different lens.
Speaker 2: But yeah, seeing you know, seeing people find their peace, man,
Speaker 2: it gives me goose puts.
Speaker 1: Is there any pushback on it? Any like negative thoughts?
Speaker 1: That what.
Speaker 2: People? People will you know, they don't don't understand it.
Speaker 2: And so when you don't understand it, you know, we
Speaker 2: get the people like that's soft, that's weak, and it's
Speaker 2: the opposite.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It takes a lot of courage to face your demons man,
Speaker 2: you know, and to maybe find out that you're not
Speaker 2: your best people. Sometimes that's what we call sitting weself.
Speaker 2: And when we sit with self, the answers come up.
Speaker 2: Sometimes people don't want to see the answers. So there's like,
Speaker 2: are you ready to start your healing journey? That's a
Speaker 2: big part of it, and some people aren't ready, so
Speaker 2: they're going to knock it in the space. There's as
Speaker 2: long as you breed deep, it works every time. So
Speaker 2: we don't have any negativity. Once people go through their journey,
Speaker 2: it's nothing but positivity on the back of a deep breath.
Speaker 1: It's interesting the different reactions you get, like breathing in
Speaker 1: one nostril out the other mouth and circulating it around.
Speaker 1: There's so many different days.
Speaker 2: So powerful, and we all heard just breathe, or who
Speaker 2: would ever thought just breathe?
Speaker 1: Do any of the old old characters.
Speaker 2: I have had to breathe some kidnap victims of mine.
Speaker 2: I've had to breathe some people that have said you
Speaker 2: pulled a gun on me, or you chase my boyfriend
Speaker 2: down the street and shot at him. And they've come
Speaker 2: in and may I'll heal anybody. I'll help anybody here.
Speaker 1: When you say you breeth someone, they're going through the experience, yep,
Speaker 1: and you're there guiding them.
Speaker 2: That's correct. So I'm holding space to them. And I
Speaker 2: have had people come in that we were on the
Speaker 2: wrong sides of the fence. They've come in they said, listen,
Speaker 2: all shit aside, man, I believe in what you're doing,
Speaker 2: and I need it. I've actually got someone coming in.
Speaker 2: They've spoke in the jackshop about me years ago. I
Speaker 2: have their paperwork and they reached out and I said, mate,
Speaker 2: you're more than welcome. We get on the mat. You know,
Speaker 2: like I wouldn't be in it for the right reasons
Speaker 2: if I was saying you can't heal, but you can't,
Speaker 2: I can't be that. Am I truly in it for
Speaker 2: the right reasons, then I'll help anybody here, Gary.
Speaker 1: And it is. And you said during the course of
Speaker 1: our chat that you want to give back to society,
Speaker 1: and that is this your way of.
Speaker 2: This is how I resent my comic debt's how I
Speaker 2: leave a legacy. I'm building an empire for all the
Speaker 2: right reasons. Now I'm not hurting anybody. I'm helping. I've
Speaker 2: learned that I've got to leave with love, not hate.
Speaker 2: And you know, I get emotional almost every session. And
Speaker 2: it's mid journey. It's gnarly because they're releasing, you know,
Speaker 2: it's all about release. But at the end of the
Speaker 2: journey is the peace they find. I know that some
Speaker 2: people have never ever stepped foot in the light they
Speaker 2: find at the end of these journeys. And it gives
Speaker 2: me a goose punts every time. It's so rewarding. I'm
Speaker 2: blessed to be in the position I am today. It's
Speaker 2: from hard work. I'll give it and saying all that
Speaker 2: I think it's only the beginning, just getting warmed up.
Speaker 1: It's hard work in learning than then running the business.
Speaker 2: Of course well, and then doing the work on myself
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and you still use it to of course,
Speaker 1: and I with doing chigol and meditation. I use it
Speaker 1: now and I say, say the people I've got in
Speaker 1: my back pocket, if my life is spinning out of control,
Speaker 1: I know how to bring it down through meditation, chigo
Speaker 1: or whatever.
Speaker 2: And of course regulate the nervous system. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And when I was in the cops, when things were
Speaker 1: happening all the time, I just step aside and do
Speaker 1: my thing in the same and get that get that
Speaker 1: balance back.
Speaker 2: I get a phone call and I think, oh, here
Speaker 2: we go. It's one of them phone calls. And take
Speaker 2: a deep breath. I breathe through the nose, hold hold
Speaker 2: hold out the mouth, just regulate for a second, and
Speaker 2: I say, how you going, how's your day been? You know,
Speaker 2: it just it just locks me in.
Speaker 1: Well, if you know, if you're going into something high stress,
Speaker 1: and it's a practice that a lot of people use,
Speaker 1: he's get your breathing right for sure. Breath. So look,
Speaker 1: I hate because I understand the stuff that you're talking about.
Speaker 1: And I hope people we haven't lost people and going
Speaker 1: what are these idiots on about?
Speaker 2: But knock it like they was saying, don't knock into you,
Speaker 2: try to.
Speaker 1: You try well. I think it's funny how people going
Speaker 1: to yoga and meditation and all that. I had Bernie
Speaker 1: Matthews on the podcast years ago, and I think he
Speaker 1: spent as long in the prisons as I did in
Speaker 1: the cops, longer serving prisoner of super Max here in Sydney,
Speaker 1: and he was talking about how he got into meditation
Speaker 1: and when it was first given to him because he
Speaker 1: was in isolation a lot of times he thought, no
Speaker 1: stuff this, I'm not going to do this. What am
Speaker 1: I going to sit here and chant? He found something
Speaker 1: the works, but he got into meditation. Just getting back
Speaker 1: to the life that you've lived, what would you say
Speaker 1: to young blokes starting at young blokes and young women
Speaker 1: like the women are getting caught up in the crime
Speaker 1: as well. What what's a message? Because I think that's
Speaker 1: an important thing. Someone said, live the experience that you've had.
Speaker 2: Show me a person that has lived a life of crime, drugs, jail,
Speaker 2: crime and has been successful in the end. If you
Speaker 2: dip your toes in deep enough, shit's going to go down.
Speaker 2: You're going to lose. It's a negative environment. We create
Speaker 2: our own reality, and when you feed so much negativity,
Speaker 2: it's going to come back to buy it. It's the
Speaker 2: only way it works. So they're going to lose. It's
Speaker 2: a lose lose situation, you know. And even okay, let's
Speaker 2: just talk hypothetically. Okay, some people have made millions and
Speaker 2: millions of dollars. What's that cost and whatever they had
Speaker 2: to sacrifice for that. Maybe they didn't end up in
Speaker 2: prison for the rest of the life, maybe they didn't
Speaker 2: end up dead. But you know what, they can't come
Speaker 2: back to Australia. They've had to jet the country, they've
Speaker 2: left their family behind. Is that millions of dollars worth
Speaker 2: that I would just say? Can you slither through the
Speaker 2: cracks and come out the other side like I have?
Speaker 2: Because in the meantime, you know, some people end up
Speaker 2: in jail for the rest of their lives, they end
Speaker 2: up dead, they end up washed up on drugs and
Speaker 2: lose their mind and never come back. These are the
Speaker 2: occupational hazards of that lifestyle. You know, you might have
Speaker 2: to flee the country, or you know, your house, your
Speaker 2: family's house is being shot up, or all the things.
Speaker 2: The list goes on and on and on, and they're
Speaker 2: going to have to go through that before they learn.
Speaker 2: The sad bit is probably yes, I wish my word
Speaker 2: had weight with them. I wish I could look at
Speaker 2: them now and say get out where you still can.
Speaker 2: But greed is so powerful, and that's what it's all
Speaker 2: driven by. It's driven by greed. And you know they're
Speaker 2: going to have to learn a lot of lives about
Speaker 2: learning lessons and they're going to have to learn. And
Speaker 2: I wish it was easy as me saying get out.
Speaker 2: You'll be fine if you get out. And if they
Speaker 2: if if my word does have enough weight with them
Speaker 2: and they get out, well well played. Let's let's get
Speaker 2: you on the mac, reach out, whatever it is, let's
Speaker 2: do what I can offer. But until then, you know
Speaker 2: they're going to have to lose. And when you when
Speaker 2: you've hit rock bottom, when you've lost enough, maybe that's
Speaker 2: when you'll go Okay, I'm over, and then then I
Speaker 2: can work with them. But there's a slippery slope till
Speaker 2: then you know how much is your family? Are you
Speaker 2: going to sacrifice because of the decisions you've made before.
Speaker 2: Enough's enough. Some people don't get a second chance. That's
Speaker 2: that's been as transparent as I can.
Speaker 1: Well, that's coming from someone that's lived the life and
Speaker 1: managed to get out the other side. And yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: seeing how energized you are there. You've found the passion,
Speaker 1: that found something, you enjoy, something that yeah, is driving you.
Speaker 1: That's what I think people have got to look forward to.
Speaker 1: I think purpose, Yeah, have a purposepose, and it's rewarding.
Speaker 1: I found my purpose at forty man and look what
Speaker 1: I've done in four years. You know, like if you
Speaker 1: find your true purpose, like they say, if you get
Speaker 1: you get paid to do something you love, you'll never
Speaker 1: work out. That's so true. That nothing's true than that.
Speaker 2: Find your purpose and make sure it's positive, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Gas, I've enjoyed enjoyed having having a chat
Speaker 3: with you and all the boys that steered me towards
Speaker 3: you and all spoken very highly of you and the
Speaker 3: people I respect.
Speaker 1: Good luck with your future and what you're doing, and
Speaker 1: thanks for being so open and honest.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, guys. Cheers mate,