Speaker 1: From Sports Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM.
Speaker 1: One of the first things David christof Fully did when
Speaker 1: he became Premier of Queensland was ordered that truth telling
Speaker 1: across the state was to stop immediately. The Truth Telling
Speaker 1: and Healing Inquiry, which was launched earlier this year, was
Speaker 1: examining the impacts of colonization on First Nations people. Work
Speaker 1: was under way with the inquiry already hearing from witnesses,
Speaker 1: but when the new premier ordered it to stop, he
Speaker 1: did it in a press conference without talking to the
Speaker 1: man running the process. Today, Chairman of the Truth Telling
Speaker 1: and Healing Inquiry, Joshua Kramer on David Crystal Fooley's decision
Speaker 1: and the truth that will never be heard this Tuesday,
Speaker 1: November five, Joshua, thanks for speaking with me. How did
Speaker 1: you first hear that the government was killing the Truth
Speaker 1: Telling and Healing Inquiry.
Speaker 2: One of my team called me and said, there's been
Speaker 2: a press conference and apparently there's some things said about us,
Speaker 2: and so that's how we found out. No advance warning
Speaker 2: and no communication since so this is obviously three or
Speaker 2: four days after the election, prior to any ministry being established.
Speaker 2: At that stage, it was just the inter ministry of
Speaker 2: the Premier and the Deputy Premier.
Speaker 1: So it was kind of like the first order of
Speaker 1: business for the new government in a way.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, I think, as as far as I know, it's
Speaker 2: the first announcement they made post election, bringing into the
Speaker 2: inquiri as the first announcement they made.
Speaker 1: One of the commitments the Premier mate was to shut
Speaker 1: the inquiry down in a respectful and decent way. Did
Speaker 1: he follow through with that promise?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: And I think that's what a lot of people like
Speaker 2: concerned about as well. People across the community. I'm not
Speaker 2: just talking about Indigenous community. I'm talking about across the
Speaker 2: community generally are really disappointed that the Premier could use
Speaker 2: those words but then seem to be acting entirely inconsistent
Speaker 2: with that. Many of us would have thought a respectful
Speaker 2: and decent way would at least being for in my
Speaker 2: office understanding the work that we were undertaking, because we
Speaker 2: are working quite embedded in number of communities at the moment,
Speaker 2: and really understanding what it would take to close the
Speaker 2: inquiry in a way that is respectful and decent.
Speaker 1: The truth telling him healing inquiry started earlier this year,
Speaker 1: but work to get to that point stretches back far longer.
Speaker 1: So how long have mob and queens They have been
Speaker 1: working towards an inquiry like this.
Speaker 2: Look, I'm pretty lucky with my work. Before I took
Speaker 2: this role, I did a worked on a number of
Speaker 2: significant cases looking at Queensland's history, things like the Palm
Speaker 2: Island case which followed the death of Marunji Dumagy. I've
Speaker 2: worked on the Stolen Generations case, and I've worked on
Speaker 2: a lot of Native title cases and all those cases
Speaker 2: look out our history, and there has been right from
Speaker 2: the earliest stages of the eighteen thirties, I guess when
Speaker 2: impacts started to occur here in Queensland eighteen thirties. Right
Speaker 2: up to eighteen fifties, there has been this advocacy by
Speaker 2: Indigenous people and non indigenous people for true accounting of
Speaker 2: how we've been treated and a true accounting of history.
Speaker 1: So we get to June of this year and the
Speaker 1: inquiry starts its work. What exactly was the inquiry doing?
Speaker 1: Can you talk about what was underway? Yeah? I can.
Speaker 2: The inquiry focuses on three phases of work, and the
Speaker 2: first phase was really to hear evidence from people with
Speaker 2: lived experience a large focus of that being on elders
Speaker 2: lived experience and the impact that from them of growing
Speaker 2: up in missions and reserves under what we call the
Speaker 2: Protection Era. Here in Queensland. We had our first block
Speaker 2: of hearings and we were preparing for our second and
Speaker 2: third block of hearings in two communities just in the
Speaker 2: greatest Southeast Queensland, and we'd actually requested submissions from thirteen
Speaker 2: government departments. We had a true Telling session where we
Speaker 2: had six Director Generals and the Police Commissioner come and
Speaker 2: give evidence, and that was on the historical impacts but
Speaker 2: also what are the current barriers to abisal trial show
Speaker 2: on people in socioeconomic conditions.
Speaker 1: Now, you mentioned that some of the witnesses were talking
Speaker 1: about their lived experience. Can you tell me about those
Speaker 1: witnesses and what stories they shed with the inquiry.
Speaker 2: The lived experienced witnesses who gave evidence in September primarily
Speaker 2: talked about their experience growing up admissions. We heard from
Speaker 2: people who'd been abused, sexually abused and physically abused in missions.
Speaker 2: We'd heard from people who'd been sent out to work
Speaker 2: for little or no wages under that stolen wages regime.
Speaker 2: And we also heard the history of families who were
Speaker 2: really brutalized in those early stages of colonization before ending
Speaker 2: up in missions in Northern Queensland. And so, you know,
Speaker 2: if I could say that evidence is really heavy, it's
Speaker 2: very traumatic. You get a lot of vicarious trauma listening
Speaker 2: to that type of evidence as well, And so that's
Speaker 2: what people wanted to share with the inquiry. I've worked
Speaker 2: in those stolen wages cases. I see people coming to
Speaker 2: court sharing their experience and having that experience at least
Speaker 2: listen to by someone in authority. You know, it's a
Speaker 2: real validation and it's a really important part of their
Speaker 2: own healing process and the strength it takes to share
Speaker 2: those types of stories can't be undervalued either.
Speaker 1: Coming up after the break, well, we all need to
Speaker 1: hear the truth, Josh. You've talked about why it's important
Speaker 1: to see these stories, but why is important for the
Speaker 1: community to hear these stories. What will these stories inform
Speaker 1: the broader community about our own history?
Speaker 2: Well, that's it. It is our history, and it is
Speaker 2: a history that just sits out there in the shadows,
Speaker 2: and it's a dying history. In this context, the people
Speaker 2: who lived it are passing away on a daily basis.
Speaker 2: I worked in the Kimberley's and the second wave of
Speaker 2: settlement up there was nineteen twenty. I mean twenty years ago.
Speaker 2: You could have sat down and had direct evidence from
Speaker 2: people about what it was like those early waves of
Speaker 2: settlers coming through and they could tell you exactly. So
Speaker 2: each year, each decade, we lose more people and we
Speaker 2: lose the ability to hear that. And I think why
Speaker 2: that is important is because in Queensland as well as
Speaker 2: across the country, there are really vast archives of our
Speaker 2: history and they sit here and mostly in Queensland State Archives,
Speaker 2: but you know, no doubt other institutions and organizations across
Speaker 2: the state, they give one version of history. Often those
Speaker 2: documents don't have an Indigenous perspective. They're not not developed
Speaker 2: by an Indigenous person, you know, they're contemporaneous documents made
Speaker 2: in eighteen forty or fifty or you know, nineteen twenty,
Speaker 2: mostly by government officials or partialists and others about their observations.
Speaker 2: And so what the ability of this inquiry does is
Speaker 2: actually give us some more full picture about our history
Speaker 2: from the perspective of Aboriginal teriroshadow on the people who
Speaker 2: lived it and that is acutely powerful and that that
Speaker 2: really is about completing our history as Queenslanders. Jort.
Speaker 3: I mean, now, David Christo Foley himself from Queensland, tell
Speaker 3: us why the LNP that you lead can no longer
Speaker 3: support a treaty Peter, Because when Queenslanders speak, leaders should listen.
Speaker 1: In Queensland and has spoke and I can tell you
Speaker 1: I heard them, Joshua. As soon as Australia and specifically
Speaker 1: Queensland voted no in the Voice referendum last year, David
Speaker 1: christof fully promised he would do away with the Truth,
Speaker 1: Telling and Healing inquiry. What message do you think the
Speaker 1: failure of the referendum sent politicians like christifully.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I will say I've realized over time. You know,
Speaker 2: it takes a lot of bravery for politicians to do
Speaker 2: something which is unpopular in a way and to continue
Speaker 2: with truth and treaty in Queensland after the Voice was unpopular,
Speaker 2: but the government at the time pressed forward. I think
Speaker 2: what has turned the tide on the popularity And you
Speaker 2: know where this inquiry sits is because we've been operating
Speaker 2: now since one July. People understand what this inquiry is
Speaker 2: it's not like the Voice where it's some far off
Speaker 2: concept that people don't know. We've had thousands all up
Speaker 2: attend our opening ceremony, our hearings. People have really got
Speaker 2: an opportunity to see, hear and listen to the work
Speaker 2: of this inquiry and appreciate. It's not a big scary thing,
Speaker 2: you know, it's not a threat to the rest of Queensland.
Speaker 2: It's an important piece of work that has a rightful place.
Speaker 2: And so unfortunately we are in this position which is
Speaker 2: really reminiscent of the Chief Protector in Queensland, which was
Speaker 2: the person who decided what happened to all Aboriginal people
Speaker 2: out of particular point in time, made a decision that
Speaker 2: affected us all and a single person has decided, despite
Speaker 2: wide consultation and support and pushing for this for at
Speaker 2: least six years, that it's not in the best interest
Speaker 2: of abigal Entois on people to continue.
Speaker 1: What do you think this decision tells us more broadly
Speaker 1: about how the government is going to handle its relationship
Speaker 1: with First Nations communities over the next four years at least.
Speaker 2: Look, all as I can say is it's a really
Speaker 2: rocky start, not just to cutting the inquiry. But people
Speaker 2: are really disappointed about said earlier that you know that
Speaker 2: the way the whole thing's been handled. We're sitting here
Speaker 2: now a number of days after that decision. Then my
Speaker 2: office still hasn't heard despite the fact that I've read
Speaker 2: I mean, you've seen the press conferences, but also I've
Speaker 2: written to the Minister and I've written to the Premier
Speaker 2: now second time to the Minister in that letter requesting meetings,
Speaker 2: urgent meetings, and no word at all. So that is
Speaker 2: really disappointing. You know, if this is the actions of
Speaker 2: the government, then we can confidently say now that Voice
Speaker 2: Treaty Truth is dead in Queensland and we don't have
Speaker 2: a plan going forward.
Speaker 1: And finally, Josh, who were we not here from now
Speaker 1: that we would have heard from if the inquiry was
Speaker 1: to continue.
Speaker 2: Oh, look, we don't just started our work. We were
Speaker 2: ready and our report, our first report was published a
Speaker 2: couple a week or so ago, sets out where we're
Speaker 2: going to be. We had a responsibility to travel across
Speaker 2: all regions in Queensland. We'd actually sent out opened our
Speaker 2: submissions portal. We've already received contact from not just indigenous
Speaker 2: groups but historical societies have responded. We had the response
Speaker 2: from some of the churches, so you know this was
Speaker 2: this wasn't an indigenous only research project. There are a
Speaker 2: lot of organizations out there really keen to engage in
Speaker 2: something like this because you know, understanding the value and
Speaker 2: importance of history. So we had an opportunity here in
Speaker 2: Queensland to do something really special and we've lost lost that.
Speaker 2: We've lost a chance to hear from thousands and thousands
Speaker 2: of Queenslanders about our history and the role and responsibilities
Speaker 2: impacts et cetera, and average and roture on to people.
Speaker 1: Josh, thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, independent MP for Wentworth elecor
Speaker 1: Spender has revealed she has quit the Chairman's Lounge, saying
Speaker 1: special treatment of politicians by airlines is undermining public trust
Speaker 1: in government and competition in the aviation industry. Independent MP
Speaker 1: K Cheney has also written to Quantus, handing back her
Speaker 1: own membership to the invitation only club, saying despite longer
Speaker 1: trips between her electorate in Wa and Canberra, it's worth
Speaker 1: it in order to regain community trust. A mineral resources
Speaker 1: founder and billionaire Chris Ellison is leaving the company. He
Speaker 1: started after revelations of over a decade of tax evasion
Speaker 1: and the misuse of company resources. The businessman and owner
Speaker 1: of Australia's most expensive home has been ordered to pay
Speaker 1: eight point eight million dollars back to the board, on
Speaker 1: top of baying more than three million dollars in tax debts.
Speaker 1: The News Trick at an eight percent drop in the
Speaker 1: company's shares on Monday Tomorrow. On the show, Paddie Manning,
Speaker 1: author of The Successor and host of Schwartz Media's podcast
Speaker 1: Rupert the last month on the Murdock's influence on this
Speaker 1: week's US selection and whether Fox News will accept a
Speaker 1: Trump defeat even if Trump doesn't.
Speaker 3: I think Fox News's position in the coverage of the
Speaker 3: aftermath of this election will be absolutely critical to the
Speaker 3: acceptance of the election result on the right, and I
Speaker 3: think that is the test for Lachlin Murdock this time around.
Speaker 3: Are we going to see a repeat of twenty twenty
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM. Thanks for listening.