WEBVTT - The end of truth telling in Queensland

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<v Speaker 1>From Sports Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the first things David christof Fully did when

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<v Speaker 1>he became Premier of Queensland was ordered that truth telling

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<v Speaker 1>across the state was to stop immediately. The Truth Telling

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<v Speaker 1>and Healing Inquiry, which was launched earlier this year, was

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<v Speaker 1>examining the impacts of colonization on First Nations people. Work

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<v Speaker 1>was under way with the inquiry already hearing from witnesses,

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<v Speaker 1>but when the new premier ordered it to stop, he

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<v Speaker 1>did it in a press conference without talking to the

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<v Speaker 1>man running the process. Today, Chairman of the Truth Telling

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<v Speaker 1>and Healing Inquiry, Joshua Kramer on David Crystal Fooley's decision

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<v Speaker 1>and the truth that will never be heard this Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 1>November five, Joshua, thanks for speaking with me. How did

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<v Speaker 1>you first hear that the government was killing the Truth

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<v Speaker 1>Telling and Healing Inquiry.

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<v Speaker 2>One of my team called me and said, there's been

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<v Speaker 2>a press conference and apparently there's some things said about us,

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<v Speaker 2>and so that's how we found out. No advance warning

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<v Speaker 2>and no communication since so this is obviously three or

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<v Speaker 2>four days after the election, prior to any ministry being established.

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<v Speaker 2>At that stage, it was just the inter ministry of

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<v Speaker 2>the Premier and the Deputy Premier.

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<v Speaker 1>So it was kind of like the first order of

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<v Speaker 1>business for the new government in a way.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, I think, as as far as I know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>the first announcement they made post election, bringing into the

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<v Speaker 2>inquiri as the first announcement they made.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the commitments the Premier mate was to shut

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<v Speaker 1>the inquiry down in a respectful and decent way. Did

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<v Speaker 1>he follow through with that promise?

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<v Speaker 3>No?

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that's what a lot of people like

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<v Speaker 2>concerned about as well. People across the community. I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>just talking about Indigenous community. I'm talking about across the

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<v Speaker 2>community generally are really disappointed that the Premier could use

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<v Speaker 2>those words but then seem to be acting entirely inconsistent

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<v Speaker 2>with that. Many of us would have thought a respectful

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<v Speaker 2>and decent way would at least being for in my

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<v Speaker 2>office understanding the work that we were undertaking, because we

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<v Speaker 2>are working quite embedded in number of communities at the moment,

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<v Speaker 2>and really understanding what it would take to close the

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<v Speaker 2>inquiry in a way that is respectful and decent.

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<v Speaker 1>The truth telling him healing inquiry started earlier this year,

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<v Speaker 1>but work to get to that point stretches back far longer.

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<v Speaker 1>So how long have mob and queens They have been

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<v Speaker 1>working towards an inquiry like this.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, I'm pretty lucky with my work. Before I took

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<v Speaker 2>this role, I did a worked on a number of

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<v Speaker 2>significant cases looking at Queensland's history, things like the Palm

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<v Speaker 2>Island case which followed the death of Marunji Dumagy. I've

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<v Speaker 2>worked on the Stolen Generations case, and I've worked on

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of Native title cases and all those cases

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<v Speaker 2>look out our history, and there has been right from

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<v Speaker 2>the earliest stages of the eighteen thirties, I guess when

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<v Speaker 2>impacts started to occur here in Queensland eighteen thirties. Right

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<v Speaker 2>up to eighteen fifties, there has been this advocacy by

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<v Speaker 2>Indigenous people and non indigenous people for true accounting of

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<v Speaker 2>how we've been treated and a true accounting of history.

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<v Speaker 1>So we get to June of this year and the

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<v Speaker 1>inquiry starts its work. What exactly was the inquiry doing?

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<v Speaker 1>Can you talk about what was underway? Yeah? I can.

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<v Speaker 2>The inquiry focuses on three phases of work, and the

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<v Speaker 2>first phase was really to hear evidence from people with

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<v Speaker 2>lived experience a large focus of that being on elders

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<v Speaker 2>lived experience and the impact that from them of growing

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<v Speaker 2>up in missions and reserves under what we call the

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<v Speaker 2>Protection Era. Here in Queensland. We had our first block

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<v Speaker 2>of hearings and we were preparing for our second and

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<v Speaker 2>third block of hearings in two communities just in the

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<v Speaker 2>greatest Southeast Queensland, and we'd actually requested submissions from thirteen

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<v Speaker 2>government departments. We had a true Telling session where we

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<v Speaker 2>had six Director Generals and the Police Commissioner come and

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<v Speaker 2>give evidence, and that was on the historical impacts but

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<v Speaker 2>also what are the current barriers to abisal trial show

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<v Speaker 2>on people in socioeconomic conditions.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, you mentioned that some of the witnesses were talking

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<v Speaker 1>about their lived experience. Can you tell me about those

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<v Speaker 1>witnesses and what stories they shed with the inquiry.

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<v Speaker 2>The lived experienced witnesses who gave evidence in September primarily

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<v Speaker 2>talked about their experience growing up admissions. We heard from

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<v Speaker 2>people who'd been abused, sexually abused and physically abused in missions.

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<v Speaker 2>We'd heard from people who'd been sent out to work

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<v Speaker 2>for little or no wages under that stolen wages regime.

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<v Speaker 2>And we also heard the history of families who were

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<v Speaker 2>really brutalized in those early stages of colonization before ending

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<v Speaker 2>up in missions in Northern Queensland. And so, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>if I could say that evidence is really heavy, it's

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<v Speaker 2>very traumatic. You get a lot of vicarious trauma listening

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<v Speaker 2>to that type of evidence as well, And so that's

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<v Speaker 2>what people wanted to share with the inquiry. I've worked

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<v Speaker 2>in those stolen wages cases. I see people coming to

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<v Speaker 2>court sharing their experience and having that experience at least

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<v Speaker 2>listen to by someone in authority. You know, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>real validation and it's a really important part of their

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<v Speaker 2>own healing process and the strength it takes to share

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<v Speaker 2>those types of stories can't be undervalued either.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up after the break, well, we all need to

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<v Speaker 1>hear the truth, Josh. You've talked about why it's important

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<v Speaker 1>to see these stories, but why is important for the

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<v Speaker 1>community to hear these stories. What will these stories inform

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<v Speaker 1>the broader community about our own history?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's it. It is our history, and it is

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<v Speaker 2>a history that just sits out there in the shadows,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a dying history. In this context, the people

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<v Speaker 2>who lived it are passing away on a daily basis.

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<v Speaker 2>I worked in the Kimberley's and the second wave of

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<v Speaker 2>settlement up there was nineteen twenty. I mean twenty years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>You could have sat down and had direct evidence from

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<v Speaker 2>people about what it was like those early waves of

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<v Speaker 2>settlers coming through and they could tell you exactly. So

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<v Speaker 2>each year, each decade, we lose more people and we

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<v Speaker 2>lose the ability to hear that. And I think why

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<v Speaker 2>that is important is because in Queensland as well as

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<v Speaker 2>across the country, there are really vast archives of our

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<v Speaker 2>history and they sit here and mostly in Queensland State Archives,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, no doubt other institutions and organizations across

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<v Speaker 2>the state, they give one version of history. Often those

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<v Speaker 2>documents don't have an Indigenous perspective. They're not not developed

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<v Speaker 2>by an Indigenous person, you know, they're contemporaneous documents made

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<v Speaker 2>in eighteen forty or fifty or you know, nineteen twenty,

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<v Speaker 2>mostly by government officials or partialists and others about their observations.

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<v Speaker 2>And so what the ability of this inquiry does is

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<v Speaker 2>actually give us some more full picture about our history

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<v Speaker 2>from the perspective of Aboriginal teriroshadow on the people who

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<v Speaker 2>lived it and that is acutely powerful and that that

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<v Speaker 2>really is about completing our history as Queenslanders. Jort.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, now, David Christo Foley himself from Queensland, tell

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<v Speaker 3>us why the LNP that you lead can no longer

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<v Speaker 3>support a treaty Peter, Because when Queenslanders speak, leaders should listen.

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<v Speaker 1>In Queensland and has spoke and I can tell you

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<v Speaker 1>I heard them, Joshua. As soon as Australia and specifically

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<v Speaker 1>Queensland voted no in the Voice referendum last year, David

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<v Speaker 1>christof fully promised he would do away with the Truth,

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<v Speaker 1>Telling and Healing inquiry. What message do you think the

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<v Speaker 1>failure of the referendum sent politicians like christifully.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, look, I will say I've realized over time. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>it takes a lot of bravery for politicians to do

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<v Speaker 2>something which is unpopular in a way and to continue

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<v Speaker 2>with truth and treaty in Queensland after the Voice was unpopular,

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<v Speaker 2>but the government at the time pressed forward. I think

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<v Speaker 2>what has turned the tide on the popularity And you

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<v Speaker 2>know where this inquiry sits is because we've been operating

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<v Speaker 2>now since one July. People understand what this inquiry is

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<v Speaker 2>it's not like the Voice where it's some far off

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<v Speaker 2>concept that people don't know. We've had thousands all up

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<v Speaker 2>attend our opening ceremony, our hearings. People have really got

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<v Speaker 2>an opportunity to see, hear and listen to the work

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<v Speaker 2>of this inquiry and appreciate. It's not a big scary thing,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's not a threat to the rest of Queensland.

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<v Speaker 2>It's an important piece of work that has a rightful place.

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<v Speaker 2>And so unfortunately we are in this position which is

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<v Speaker 2>really reminiscent of the Chief Protector in Queensland, which was

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<v Speaker 2>the person who decided what happened to all Aboriginal people

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<v Speaker 2>out of particular point in time, made a decision that

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<v Speaker 2>affected us all and a single person has decided, despite

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<v Speaker 2>wide consultation and support and pushing for this for at

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<v Speaker 2>least six years, that it's not in the best interest

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<v Speaker 2>of abigal Entois on people to continue.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think this decision tells us more broadly

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<v Speaker 1>about how the government is going to handle its relationship

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<v Speaker 1>with First Nations communities over the next four years at least.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, all as I can say is it's a really

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<v Speaker 2>rocky start, not just to cutting the inquiry. But people

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<v Speaker 2>are really disappointed about said earlier that you know that

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<v Speaker 2>the way the whole thing's been handled. We're sitting here

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<v Speaker 2>now a number of days after that decision. Then my

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<v Speaker 2>office still hasn't heard despite the fact that I've read

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you've seen the press conferences, but also I've

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<v Speaker 2>written to the Minister and I've written to the Premier

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<v Speaker 2>now second time to the Minister in that letter requesting meetings,

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<v Speaker 2>urgent meetings, and no word at all. So that is

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<v Speaker 2>really disappointing. You know, if this is the actions of

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<v Speaker 2>the government, then we can confidently say now that Voice

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<v Speaker 2>Treaty Truth is dead in Queensland and we don't have

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<v Speaker 2>a plan going forward.

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<v Speaker 1>And finally, Josh, who were we not here from now

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<v Speaker 1>that we would have heard from if the inquiry was

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<v Speaker 1>to continue.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, look, we don't just started our work. We were

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<v Speaker 2>ready and our report, our first report was published a

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<v Speaker 2>couple a week or so ago, sets out where we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to be. We had a responsibility to travel across

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<v Speaker 2>all regions in Queensland. We'd actually sent out opened our

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<v Speaker 2>submissions portal. We've already received contact from not just indigenous

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<v Speaker 2>groups but historical societies have responded. We had the response

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<v Speaker 2>from some of the churches, so you know this was

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<v Speaker 2>this wasn't an indigenous only research project. There are a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of organizations out there really keen to engage in

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<v Speaker 2>something like this because you know, understanding the value and

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<v Speaker 2>importance of history. So we had an opportunity here in

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<v Speaker 2>Queensland to do something really special and we've lost lost that.

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<v Speaker 2>We've lost a chance to hear from thousands and thousands

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<v Speaker 2>of Queenslanders about our history and the role and responsibilities

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<v Speaker 2>impacts et cetera, and average and roture on to people.

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<v Speaker 1>Josh, thanks so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, independent MP for Wentworth elecor

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<v Speaker 1>Spender has revealed she has quit the Chairman's Lounge, saying

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<v Speaker 1>special treatment of politicians by airlines is undermining public trust

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<v Speaker 1>in government and competition in the aviation industry. Independent MP

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<v Speaker 1>K Cheney has also written to Quantus, handing back her

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<v Speaker 1>own membership to the invitation only club, saying despite longer

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<v Speaker 1>trips between her electorate in Wa and Canberra, it's worth

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<v Speaker 1>it in order to regain community trust. A mineral resources

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<v Speaker 1>founder and billionaire Chris Ellison is leaving the company. He

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<v Speaker 1>started after revelations of over a decade of tax evasion

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<v Speaker 1>and the misuse of company resources. The businessman and owner

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<v Speaker 1>of Australia's most expensive home has been ordered to pay

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<v Speaker 1>eight point eight million dollars back to the board, on

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<v Speaker 1>top of baying more than three million dollars in tax debts.

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<v Speaker 1>The News Trick at an eight percent drop in the

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<v Speaker 1>company's shares on Monday Tomorrow. On the show, Paddie Manning,

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<v Speaker 1>author of The Successor and host of Schwartz Media's podcast

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<v Speaker 1>Rupert the last month on the Murdock's influence on this

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<v Speaker 1>week's US selection and whether Fox News will accept a

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<v Speaker 1>Trump defeat even if Trump doesn't.

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<v Speaker 3>I think Fox News's position in the coverage of the

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<v Speaker 3>aftermath of this election will be absolutely critical to the

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<v Speaker 3>acceptance of the election result on the right, and I

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<v Speaker 3>think that is the test for Lachlin Murdock this time around.

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<v Speaker 3>Are we going to see a repeat of twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 3>in twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM. Thanks for listening.