Speaker 1: She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2: I'm Tiff.
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Speaker 3: test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Temmy Van w'sat Welcome
Speaker 3: to Roll with the Punches Tip.
Speaker 4: It's great to see you, always great to beat you
Speaker 4: with you.
Speaker 3: It's like we've been swimming around in circles, just passing
Speaker 3: each other in our in our bloody own. I don't know,
Speaker 3: I'm trying to make swimming around. You're just not working.
Speaker 3: There we go, thank you, thank you. I was like,
Speaker 3: come on, Tiff, think of something swimming. I'm like, no,
Speaker 3: you're not a good swimmer. You sung to the bottom
Speaker 3: and you crack the shits before you learned how to
Speaker 3: do it, So it's not gonna work.
Speaker 2: Hey, we can't be good at everything.
Speaker 3: Come on, like, you know, tell me that old have
Speaker 3: you got at all of the things?
Speaker 2: That's your perfection's coming out right there? What what do
Speaker 2: you mean?
Speaker 3: I learned a few things about you about five minutes ago.
Speaker 2: Did you be interesting? You know?
Speaker 3: I just went. I was like, I just go and
Speaker 3: have another look at TAM's website and I was looking
Speaker 3: at your one sheet you'll speak of one sheet, Yeah,
Speaker 3: and god, there's some cool stuff on there. For a start,
Speaker 3: you have a day named after you in New Jersey.
Speaker 4: What I know, it's pretty cool. Look, yeah, something I
Speaker 4: never ever expected. So I did this swim over obviously
Speaker 4: in New York, New York to New Jersey. And I
Speaker 4: really wanted to do it because there was a there
Speaker 4: was a record that had stood in the history books
Speaker 4: for over eighty years, and the woman that held the
Speaker 4: record was a childhood hero of mine. Her name was
Speaker 4: Gertrude Edly, and she was from New Jersey. And she
Speaker 4: was also the first woman to ever swim in the
Speaker 4: English Channel. And I look, I'm really sorry. One of
Speaker 4: the regrets in my life is that I never got
Speaker 4: to meet her, because I would have just absolutely loved it.
Speaker 4: And she was just like a legend. Honestly, she paved
Speaker 4: the way for women in sports so many ways because
Speaker 4: when she attempted to sim the channel, obviously back in
Speaker 4: the early nineteen twenties, women you know, really were considered
Speaker 4: able to participate in sport, and and like there was
Speaker 4: they were running book books against you know, the odds
Speaker 4: against her making it, and people were laughing at her.
Speaker 4: And she went over and she not only became the
Speaker 4: first woman, but she also smashed the men's.
Speaker 2: Record by over two hours. So it's a pretty cool story. Like,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm really I'm condensing her story.
Speaker 4: She went through so much, like to get there and
Speaker 4: to do it, and even to find a trainer someone
Speaker 4: on a boat because you know, the men didn't believe
Speaker 4: she was good enough to swim it, so she struggled on.
Speaker 2: So many fronts.
Speaker 4: So I either thought it would be amazing to do
Speaker 4: the swim to highlight her contribution to women in sport
Speaker 4: and particularly you know, like I wouldn't have been marathon
Speaker 4: swimming without people like that. So you know, it's really
Speaker 4: nice to reflect back and you know, one of the
Speaker 4: people that have paved the way for you. So that's
Speaker 4: really what the swim was about. And I was really
Speaker 4: fortunate I didn't get to meet Gertrude, but I got
Speaker 4: to meet all her family, so she never had kids,
Speaker 4: but all her nieces and nephews. We went out to
Speaker 4: dinner a couple of nights before the swim, and they
Speaker 4: were just telling me stories about her, and they also
Speaker 4: were on my support boat, which was just like, you know,
Speaker 4: it was so inspirational to have that kind of support.
Speaker 4: And then when I finished the swim, I broke Gertrude's
Speaker 4: record by a bit over two hours, and as I
Speaker 4: walked up the beach, the mayor of Monmouth County in
Speaker 4: New Jersey actually you know, presented me with the certificate
Speaker 4: and said, you know, from this day forth, every twenty
Speaker 4: first of July, I will now be known as Tammy
Speaker 4: vanwis the day in honor of what you've done. So yeah,
Speaker 4: so it's really you know, it's yeah, I just cried,
Speaker 4: like honestly, because my whole motivation was really to.
Speaker 2: Honor Gertrude and her contribution because I think, you.
Speaker 4: Know, it's just so special and she encouraged so many
Speaker 4: women to learn how to swim and you know, to
Speaker 4: just open their world to what women can do in
Speaker 4: the sporting arena.
Speaker 2: So it was very early days.
Speaker 4: So I think, yeah, it's just it's a beautiful thing
Speaker 4: to have happened. So yeah, I'm really, really really humbled.
Speaker 2: I don't know what say.
Speaker 4: It's a beautiful thing. To have day named after you
Speaker 4: is certainly very unexpected.
Speaker 3: It's so special. You just reminded me a previous guest
Speaker 3: not that long ago. Tara is a Australian Superbikes rider
Speaker 3: who this year was the first female to win a
Speaker 3: round in the Australian Superbikes the first female. And she's
Speaker 3: this young girl, twenty one. I believe, if my memory
Speaker 3: served me, which it really does, get punch in the
Speaker 3: head a lot. But I said to her, and I
Speaker 3: think of this right now, it is so like that
Speaker 3: is a moment that not just lives in history, but
Speaker 3: changes the future because when girls see now like you saw,
Speaker 3: it's not just possible to do what the blokes do,
Speaker 3: it's also possible to win when we join them, it's
Speaker 3: possible to be first.
Speaker 4: It breaks countries, it really does, you know, it's the
Speaker 4: it's the breaking of the thinking, you know, because let's
Speaker 4: face it, you know, in our minds we all sort
Speaker 4: of think, oh, you know, no one's ever done that before,
Speaker 4: and when the first person does it, and it's funny,
Speaker 4: it's you know, once one person doesn't, then you always
Speaker 4: see a flat of others sort of following along. So
Speaker 4: it's like that invisible barrier. And you're right, it is.
Speaker 4: It is more than just a win. It's a it's
Speaker 4: a change in history. It's a changing thinking for generations
Speaker 4: to come that read that story or see that achievement
Speaker 4: and then go, wow, she did that, I could possibly
Speaker 4: do that, and then go on to do more. So yeah,
Speaker 4: it is. It is incredible. So I think it's just
Speaker 4: important that you know that we remember people like that
Speaker 4: because I think sometimes we forget, we don't realize, you know,
Speaker 4: for us to be able to participate in sport, there's
Speaker 4: been a lot of groundwork laid before we even get this.
Speaker 4: So that was really, you know, what I wanted to
Speaker 4: do because I'd read about Gertrude and I just love
Speaker 4: your story. And actually there's there's a film about her
Speaker 4: life on Disney Channel and it's called Young Woman Against
Speaker 4: the Sea and it is incredible. So if you get
Speaker 4: a chance to watch it, or if any of your
Speaker 4: listeners want.
Speaker 2: To watch a great movie on the Disney Channel, yeah, Young.
Speaker 4: Woman Against the Sea and it basically goes through Gertrude's
Speaker 4: history and it's a really great movie. It's all based
Speaker 4: on that. So yeah, it's wonderful, Absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 3: How weird is it to both look up to women
Speaker 3: like that? But then, how long did it take you
Speaker 3: to realize you were one? When you became one?
Speaker 2: Still still don't know.
Speaker 3: I get that vibe. I get that vibe. By the way,
Speaker 3: you are one. You have a day named after you
Speaker 3: in New Jersey.
Speaker 4: Yeah, today it's a bar of chocolate. Ah, whoa, I've
Speaker 4: trouble remembering my birthday, so, you.
Speaker 2: Know, just slips through the cracks, but it is nice.
Speaker 3: One of the other things I read on your any
Speaker 3: Career Highlights was one point five times around the planet?
Speaker 3: Is the distance equivalent to what you have swum? It's
Speaker 3: one point five times sixty five thousand kilometers. So the
Speaker 3: first question that popped into my head was what drives
Speaker 3: somebody to swim one and a half times around the planet?
Speaker 3: Swimming like, it's hard, it's dangerous, it feels inconsistent. Right,
Speaker 3: you're at the you're at the mercy of the weather
Speaker 3: and the condition and all of the things. Tell me
Speaker 3: what's underneath that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well it's a very good question and probably something
Speaker 4: that I asked myself a.
Speaker 2: Lot too over the years doing this.
Speaker 4: But look, if I really peel all the layers back,
Speaker 4: i'd have to say it's curiosity. So for me, look,
Speaker 4: I wasn't a natural athlete, and in fact, in primary
Speaker 4: school I used to get teased because I was overweight
Speaker 4: as a child, and so I used to get teased
Speaker 4: a lot at school and I hated sports days. I
Speaker 4: hated when we had to remember in PRIMI schou I
Speaker 4: don't know whether you went through this, but you know
Speaker 4: they used to pick teams. We'd go and play cricket
Speaker 4: or whatever, and you know, there'd be two captains and
Speaker 4: they'd have to choose all the members of the class
Speaker 4: and they'd move over to each side. And I dreaded
Speaker 4: that because I was always the last kid chosen, and
Speaker 4: you know they'd be arguing, I don't want her like
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. So for me, yeah, it
Speaker 4: wasn't a great experience, and so my parents put me
Speaker 4: into swimming lessons. I had something lessons when I was young,
Speaker 4: like water familiarization. So at six months of age two,
Speaker 4: about five, and then I stopped and then we got
Speaker 4: a backyard pool for Christmas, so they put me back
Speaker 4: into lessons, proper formal lessons.
Speaker 2: I was about nine.
Speaker 4: Or ten, and at that stage I did not want
Speaker 4: to go to the pool, like honestly, but my parents
Speaker 4: were pretty pretty persistent, and in our household, you know,
Speaker 4: it was a safety thing, so I couldn't get out
Speaker 4: of it. So I guess, you know, I went under
Speaker 4: huge protest. I didn't want to be seen in favors.
Speaker 4: That was literally, you know, because I've been teased so
Speaker 4: much at school. The last thing you want to do
Speaker 4: is like parade around in a pair of dogs.
Speaker 2: But no choice, so I did it.
Speaker 4: And it was one of the you know, one of
Speaker 4: those situations where when you practice and you do something,
Speaker 4: you can discover, you know, new talents that you didn't
Speaker 4: know that you had. And so, you know, I gradually
Speaker 4: learned how to swim, and you know, my teacher said, oh,
Speaker 4: you've actually got a bit of tower in this, and
Speaker 4: so I sort of worked my way through lessons and
Speaker 4: got asked to join the squad, and you know, and
Speaker 4: it was just really exciting for me because, you know,
Speaker 4: this revelation that I actually could participate in sport and
Speaker 4: find something that I was good at. And so then
Speaker 4: I sort of, you know, did a bit of pool
Speaker 4: competition for a number of years and loved being under
Speaker 4: coaches and you know, I just loved being part of
Speaker 4: the squad. You know, something, for me, the most exciting
Speaker 4: part of it was actually the camaraderie and the friends
Speaker 4: that you make along the way, and that was really
Speaker 4: I loved training, not so much competition, person, but I
Speaker 4: loved training, just love it. Love the whole getting to
Speaker 4: the pool and you know, pushing myself and getting feedback
Speaker 4: from the coach and yeah, just that whole, that whole environment.
Speaker 4: Really I thrive in that particular environment.
Speaker 2: So I did that.
Speaker 4: But my results, you know, were that great in the pool.
Speaker 4: I sort of you know, I won some states and
Speaker 4: national titles, some state titles, but when I went to nationals,
Speaker 4: you know, I really wasn't, you know, in the top echelon.
Speaker 4: So I sort of got a bit jaded because my
Speaker 4: improvement didn't come and ran about thirteen fourteen, I joined
Speaker 4: a life staving club and so I was sort of
Speaker 4: doing a bit of open water stuff and learning new
Speaker 4: things in conjunction with sort of competition swimming, and I
Speaker 4: found that that really took over, and I started entering
Speaker 4: things like the Law and Peter pub and I want
Speaker 4: it like I was just like blown away.
Speaker 2: And then I started to really like open water way
Speaker 2: more than the pool.
Speaker 4: Just because you know, like it was you against the
Speaker 4: elements more than you know, being in a stagnant environment
Speaker 4: where you know, there's the lame ropes and really only
Speaker 4: you sort of tenth of a second improvements. So that
Speaker 4: really caught my imagination. And so the curiosity then began,
Speaker 4: like in doing these open water events, like okay, I've
Speaker 4: done this one, how much further can I go? So
Speaker 4: I do another one and you know, go from one
Speaker 4: point two k to five k to ten you know.
Speaker 4: Then I did a twenty case and I, you know,
Speaker 4: never swum twenty k's before. And there was just this
Speaker 4: there was a race advertised in Port pilip Bay from
Speaker 4: Baumorris to Frankston, and I thought, you know what, I'll
Speaker 4: just have a going Yeah, And I remember I was
Speaker 4: so scared at the beginning because you know, I thought,
Speaker 4: why did I do this? You know, all the doubts
Speaker 4: crept in my mind, but I guess I kind of
Speaker 4: like got swept along.
Speaker 2: And started the event.
Speaker 4: And conditions were great at the beginning, but they turned
Speaker 4: at the halfway mark, and I was just petrified of
Speaker 4: everything in the open water, like particularly things with teeth,
Speaker 4: and I was like, so there were so many fears
Speaker 4: and doubts that I had to overcome. But I had
Speaker 4: a strategy. I was swimming in a pack, like I
Speaker 4: just went help the leather and swam in the pack
Speaker 4: because I just let if anything happened, So I believed
Speaker 4: shark take someone else, and I could use my springing
Speaker 4: ability to get back into the you know, get back
Speaker 4: into the shore. So anyway work because once the condition
Speaker 4: has changed, you know, people dropped off and I found
Speaker 4: myself on my own, and my mind just went, you know,
Speaker 4: in that moment of you know, looking down and I
Speaker 4: saw a shadow and then I went full Spielberg.
Speaker 3: I've just learned about cookie cut of sharks.
Speaker 4: Yes, over in Hawaii, there's been quite a few. Actually, yeah,
Speaker 4: I've been reading. There's been quite a few swimmers that
Speaker 4: have been trying to swim the Molokai Channel, And yeah,
Speaker 4: I think at certain times at dusk, yes, I know
Speaker 4: it is serious.
Speaker 3: I would be in the grips of a great white
Speaker 3: then have a cookie cut of shark. Everybody, go and
Speaker 3: google cookie cut of shark bite and just have a
Speaker 3: look at what happens. Yes, little piranha look and things.
Speaker 2: Well, maybe not because you may never get back in
Speaker 2: the water again, like, yeah, I probably don't know.
Speaker 4: But luckily, you know, it depends on where you swim obviously,
Speaker 4: so you know, you've got to kind of weigh up things.
Speaker 2: And that, you know what idea.
Speaker 4: I went nuts and I swam faster than me and
Speaker 4: thought thinking that I'd seen a shark and of course
Speaker 4: it was nothing, and.
Speaker 2: You know, as you do, and then of course, you
Speaker 2: know reality, you.
Speaker 4: Know, the heart rate came back down and I realized that,
Speaker 4: you know, that fear, I could either you know, panic
Speaker 4: and fall in a heap, or you know, you can
Speaker 4: channel it, you know, And it actually gave me an
Speaker 4: adrenaline rush, and I thought, you know, come on, you're
Speaker 4: just being silly. You know, you're going to rationalizing and
Speaker 4: ask yourself the right questions when you're in those situations
Speaker 4: and say, okay, well look it was nothing. And quite
Speaker 4: often we jump to conclusions, you know, so many times
Speaker 4: in life, we you know, we panic about things that
Speaker 4: are really quite minor and we just have to be
Speaker 4: able to.
Speaker 2: Sort of breathe, which is what I did.
Speaker 4: I just concentrated on my breathing, got my breathing back
Speaker 4: under control, you know, worked on my bilateral breathing again,
Speaker 4: you know, counting every three.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's come now, start thinking properly, ask.
Speaker 4: Yourself the right questions and realize, you know, hey, three
Speaker 4: quarters of the way, nothing's going to get me. I'm fine,
Speaker 4: just keep moving forward. So I did, and I ended
Speaker 4: up actually winning that twenty case whom I came third overall,
Speaker 4: and I was the first girl home, and the conditions
Speaker 4: were horrendous at the end, like out of the twenty
Speaker 4: eight people that started, only twenty one finished. So and
Speaker 4: I just realized that I had this talent for endurance,
Speaker 4: like the further the distance than the harder it was,
Speaker 4: you know, I guess, you know, mentally, I.
Speaker 2: Was just able to cope. And I kind of.
Speaker 4: Bring that back to my parents, particularly my dad, because
Speaker 4: growing up My parents both immigrated to Australia back in
Speaker 4: the sixties. They came out on a boat from Holland
Speaker 4: and my dad lived through the tail end of World
Speaker 4: War Two and he was just a young boy at
Speaker 4: the time. But he used to tell us stories all
Speaker 4: the time, particularly you know about my grandfather who apparently
Speaker 4: walked like over eighty kilometers to go and get the
Speaker 4: family a loaf of bread through you know, Upied territory.
Speaker 2: So I could have easily been killed.
Speaker 4: So many little stories like that, and he always is
Speaker 4: to say, you'd be surprised what you can do, like
Speaker 4: your mind can do in credit, like if you learn
Speaker 4: to think properly, you know, and control your might, you
Speaker 4: can do amazing things.
Speaker 2: And it always was something that he said.
Speaker 4: And also to be humble, to appreciate, you know, the
Speaker 4: roof over our head and food on the table.
Speaker 2: So I think having that as part.
Speaker 4: Of my I guess, you know, feedback growing up hearing
Speaker 4: those kind of stories all the time. Also you know,
Speaker 4: channeled my thinking and so that that helped too. So
Speaker 4: I think that's why I ended up in the endurance
Speaker 4: side of things. Just yeah, genetically obviously that suited me.
Speaker 4: But the mindset was there for that type of event
Speaker 4: as well.
Speaker 3: I love that when when you first started kind of
Speaker 3: talking about the open water compared to the pool, I
Speaker 3: started picturing and feeling an alliance between how I felt
Speaker 3: with boxing of this sense of I know. I felt like,
Speaker 3: I know I'm not the best, and I'm not the
Speaker 3: most talented, and I'm not necessary. I don't feel good
Speaker 3: at this at all. But what I do know is,
Speaker 3: however good I am, I know I can stay that
Speaker 3: good through the hardest shit. I know I can endure
Speaker 3: more for longer than you, not you, but everybody else.
Speaker 2: And that was.
Speaker 3: In the thick of the chaos, in the thick of
Speaker 3: the punches and the hard it was like, that's cool,
Speaker 3: I can deal with hard watch me. And that's how
Speaker 3: I felt listening to you talk about the open water,
Speaker 3: of like, Okay, I can do I can be this
Speaker 3: good for as long as it takes.
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely, and that you know, And that's a that's
Speaker 4: a lot mindset that helps you through life because you know,
Speaker 4: when you think about it, you know you don't have
Speaker 4: to be fearless too. It's not about being fearless because
Speaker 4: we all live with fear and doubts and you know,
Speaker 4: question our ability or choices, and you know, wonder about
Speaker 4: whether we can do things. But it's about taking that
Speaker 4: next step forward and believing that you know, even they
Speaker 4: can't see the finish line, trusting that you'll be able
Speaker 4: to get there and stay the course more than anything else,
Speaker 4: and taking those steps all the time. And that's you know,
Speaker 4: really excise me something that I think you know as
Speaker 4: being I just I am so grateful that I did
Speaker 4: marathons in me because it's really helped me through life.
Speaker 2: Because we all face challenges and big waves, whether.
Speaker 4: It in the boxing ring or in the you know,
Speaker 4: in the ocean, that it happens in life too. So
Speaker 4: the same mindset that you know we learn as athletes
Speaker 4: really transpose us into real life and helps you get
Speaker 4: through ordinary challenges as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one last swimming thing I want to ask you about,
Speaker 3: because there's way, like I want you for about four
Speaker 3: days on this. There's so much but that the best
Speaker 3: like the only person to have ever swum the bast straight.
Speaker 2: That that water in Tasmania, Victoria. Yeah, which is treacherous.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's terrible enough getting on, but I've
Speaker 3: worked on the spirit of Tazzy Forrile, it was rough
Speaker 3: enough doing that crossing and paid for it in a
Speaker 3: cozy little boat. You're all crazy, But how does it
Speaker 3: feel to know, Okay, I did that cool, cool cal
Speaker 3: but no one else in the world has done it.
Speaker 4: I know, I'm waiting for somebody to do it, because
Speaker 4: you know, those ones are put down so that somebody
Speaker 4: else can do it, right, And I did this in
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety six, So we're going on, you know, thirty
Speaker 4: years next year.
Speaker 2: I can't believe it because I.
Speaker 4: Have reunions with my crew, and we did have a
Speaker 4: twenty year reunion, so I think I need to pull
Speaker 4: my finger out and start organizing the.
Speaker 2: Thirty Yeah, we're all still around thinking, but it's yeah,
Speaker 2: it's one of those conic Yeah.
Speaker 4: Look, it was something you know, I was told it
Speaker 4: was impossible when I was thinking about doing it, because
Speaker 4: I didn't a lot of research and spoke to a
Speaker 4: lot of experienced mariners and Sydney the Hoebart yacht races,
Speaker 4: and I guess, you know, people project their I guess
Speaker 4: their fears onto you, not out of wanting to stop you,
Speaker 4: but I guess, you know, everybody has doubts about things.
Speaker 4: So and when something hasn't been done before, you know,
Speaker 4: they tend to be even more negative about it, so
Speaker 4: I guess, and reasonably so, because you know, a boat
Speaker 4: crossing can be done a lot faster than a swim crossing,
Speaker 4: and it's it's a matter of, you know, do you
Speaker 4: get the luck with the weather. That's that's the big question.
Speaker 4: So not so much the distance, but it's just you know,
Speaker 4: can you handle the conditions that are going to be
Speaker 4: throwing it.
Speaker 2: So that was the big challenge.
Speaker 4: But my mindset was like, just because something hasn't been
Speaker 4: done before doesn't mean it can't. So I moved forward
Speaker 4: and I was able to have a wonderful support crew
Speaker 4: around me, you know, to help me with logistics, and
Speaker 4: you know, they all believed in the mission and they
Speaker 4: believed in me, and I think, you know, without that support,
Speaker 4: I wouldn't have been able to get that swim off
Speaker 4: the ground because you know, you can't do anything on
Speaker 4: your own.
Speaker 2: You really do need a village, you know, to lift
Speaker 2: you up and pick you up.
Speaker 4: Because there were so many times that you know, I'd
Speaker 4: take two steps forward and one back. I struggled to
Speaker 4: get sponsorship for the swim because nobody believed it was possible.
Speaker 4: So you know, I had to have a shark cage mate.
Speaker 4: And you know it's not like there's blueprints sitting around,
Speaker 4: like you know.
Speaker 2: This is how you do it.
Speaker 4: So we were really we're really adapting and creating new
Speaker 4: things the whole way along, because again, there was no
Speaker 4: training plan, so like, you know, how do you train
Speaker 4: for something like that?
Speaker 2: How do you prepare your body?
Speaker 4: You know, I had to be ready to swim in
Speaker 4: freezing waters for you know, I was thinking twenty to
Speaker 4: twenty four hours, you know, worst case scenario. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I was there weren't nutritionists around that could you know,
Speaker 4: offer you advice on how to cope with hypothermia, So I.
Speaker 2: Mean, you know, I knew you had a For instance,
Speaker 2: I was trying.
Speaker 4: To put on weight because that's quite often what you
Speaker 4: have to do to survive a swim in freezing water.
Speaker 4: You need to have the body fat to be able
Speaker 4: to cope so that you know, you don't get pulled
Speaker 4: out with hypothermia. So I was eating a lot of
Speaker 4: carbs and you know rice passaes at the beginning, but
Speaker 4: my training I was swimming. I'm going to say six
Speaker 4: hours a day, three in the morning, three in the afternoon.
Speaker 4: So I was summing twenty sometimes twenty five k's a day,
Speaker 4: six days a week, going to the gym about three times.
Speaker 4: So I had pt and you know, strengthening the upper
Speaker 4: body to be able to punch through the waves. And
Speaker 4: you know, I was doing a little bit of cross
Speaker 4: training as well, so I was probably having a forty
Speaker 4: hour week of swimming and just you know, keeping myself fit,
Speaker 4: so eating enough to maintain.
Speaker 3: How many calories was that?
Speaker 2: Oh, goday, God, I wouldn't even know.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't even know how to calculate it, because it
Speaker 4: was just yeah, if you think about it.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 3: So to not only not only fuel that, but then
Speaker 3: to put on additional weight.
Speaker 4: Correct, correct, Like you know, he asked me to put
Speaker 4: on weight when I'm not training, not a drum FA's
Speaker 4: with the dilemma of training that much and fueling just
Speaker 4: to keep up with what you're doing, let alone trying
Speaker 4: to you know, have additional weight.
Speaker 2: And I was aiming to put on twelve kilos that
Speaker 2: was the goal. And so.
Speaker 4: Traditional eating didn't work, so I reverted to eating cake, chocolate,
Speaker 4: you know, maccas KFC, you know, all the high fat
Speaker 4: foods as well as the carbs, and it was literally
Speaker 4: like a full time job trying to eat. So if
Speaker 4: I wasn't sleeping or assuming I was eating, I had
Speaker 4: doggie bags in the car with Mars bars and all
Speaker 4: sorts of things. So I was desperately trying to put
Speaker 4: on this weight because I knew the swim depended on it.
Speaker 2: Like, you know, I laugh about it that.
Speaker 4: You know, my brother was actually pulled out of the
Speaker 4: English Channel with hypothermia four kilometers away from the coast
Speaker 4: of France and he stopped breathing and he had.
Speaker 2: To be resuscitated. So it's a very serious.
Speaker 4: Factor that you have to deal with when you're in
Speaker 4: open water, and especially very cold open water. So I
Speaker 4: did manage to finally put on the weight and probably
Speaker 4: helped that I started from King Island because the dairy
Speaker 4: was eating all the cheeses and the cream and but yeah,
Speaker 4: so there were so many factors to consider and so many,
Speaker 4: you know, so many different things.
Speaker 2: But my crew were just incredible.
Speaker 4: And yeah, so we got we got over to King
Speaker 4: Island and we actually had to wait for seven days
Speaker 4: befo I got a window to swim because there was
Speaker 4: one hundred not winds blowing all around the che kilometers
Speaker 4: an hour.
Speaker 2: Oh wow. Yeah. You literally had to lean forward to
Speaker 2: walk down the street. It was that it was that bad.
Speaker 3: And were you like, is this a sign to you?
Speaker 4: While I was looking out towards Victoria and obviously, you know,
Speaker 4: most days you couldn't see it, and you know, and
Speaker 4: there's these waves that are as tall as you know,
Speaker 4: small buildings basically, and so again, you know, you have
Speaker 4: to keep your mindset positive and you have to believe
Speaker 4: in yourself and believe that you're going to get the opportunity.
Speaker 2: To do it.
Speaker 4: And I had to wait seven days, but finally I
Speaker 4: got a little teeny tiny window and it wasn't perfect,
Speaker 4: but conditions sort of settled a little bit, and like
Speaker 4: many things, that's you know, having the courage to start.
Speaker 4: It was the hardest part, probably standing on the shore
Speaker 4: and going right, this is it got to go. And
Speaker 4: I'm very lucky that I've had Dawn Fraser in my
Speaker 4: support crew as well. She's been my mentor for many,
Speaker 4: many years. And so Dawn was over on King Island
Speaker 4: and on my boat for the swim, and she kind
Speaker 4: of gave me a little whisper in the air. I
Speaker 4: think she can see, you know, the fear and the
Speaker 4: doubt excise me bubbling away inside me, and she kind
Speaker 4: of said, you've got this done, all the training, Let's
Speaker 4: do it. And so off I went and swam out
Speaker 4: to my support boat anchored about a couple of kilometers away,
Speaker 4: and climbed on board the shark cage and off we
Speaker 4: went and a venture.
Speaker 2: Of a light tim. I tell you the probably some of.
Speaker 4: The toughest eighteen hours that I've never had to go
Speaker 4: through in my life, because, you know, we the swells
Speaker 4: were incredible. We had three to four meter swells most
Speaker 4: of the way. And my fisherman said to me, he
Speaker 4: worked out in the Straits for thirty years in fishing scollops,
Speaker 4: and he said to me, you're so lucky that it.
Speaker 2: Is so calm. And that was three to four meter swells.
Speaker 4: So it was a battle for me being in the
Speaker 4: shark cage because I was smashed around from side to side, and.
Speaker 2: I really how big is a shark cage.
Speaker 4: Shark cage was five meters wide, seven meters long, two
Speaker 4: meters deep, so you could park two small in it,
Speaker 4: like the size of a small garage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, big, big on land.
Speaker 3: Were there sharks out there? Did you see them?
Speaker 4: I did not, so it was very lucky. Didn't see anything,
Speaker 4: thank goodness. Not not on that particular swim anyway, so
Speaker 4: we were fortunate. So yeah, yeah, I felt protected in
Speaker 4: the cage as well.
Speaker 2: I had it made out of amply missed security or materials.
Speaker 4: I saw an ad for Valerie Taylor, the diver, and
Speaker 4: she used to dive with sharks all the time and
Speaker 4: her cages were always made out of the amply missed
Speaker 4: security dormitories.
Speaker 2: I thought, you know what, it's good enough for Belve,
Speaker 2: good enough for me.
Speaker 4: But of course there was never any footage back in
Speaker 4: those days like you see on YouTube now with.
Speaker 2: The sharks jumping. I could have been in massive trouble
Speaker 2: if I had one that jumped.
Speaker 3: Oh god.
Speaker 2: But anyway, we were worried about that. I'm here and
Speaker 2: I've got all my limbs intact.
Speaker 3: Eighteen hours. I was going to ask how long it
Speaker 3: took souse.
Speaker 4: I wasn't aware, and yeah, seventeen hours and forty six
Speaker 4: minutes it took me to go from King Island to
Speaker 4: a Holidays. So yeah, it was a long journey. And
Speaker 4: probably the hardest part. I started at quarter to six
Speaker 4: in the evening because that's sort of when we just
Speaker 4: got this window break. And to be honest with you,
Speaker 4: I didn't really have that many more options anyway, because
Speaker 4: I only had enough money to last for seven days,
Speaker 4: like to be able to house the crew, and you know,
Speaker 4: because they'd all taken time off work, they were all volunteers.
Speaker 4: So you know, it was an incredible just so incredible
Speaker 4: when I think back that we just got this chance.
Speaker 4: On the seventh day, could in the evening and we
Speaker 4: headed off, and like I said, it was pretty eerie
Speaker 4: swimming in the night as well. So swimming in the
Speaker 4: dark is fairly is a whole other mindset because you
Speaker 4: really are isolated. You can't see your support crew as well,
Speaker 4: you can't read messages on the whiteboard.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a quiet time. It's just hard.
Speaker 4: You're very much in your own mind trying to negotiate
Speaker 4: all the time, really because the body, you know, starts
Speaker 4: telling you that I want to give up, as you
Speaker 4: would know, and it's about negotiating for it to go
Speaker 4: that little bit further. You know, hey, come on, hold on,
Speaker 4: you can keep going. So I managed to get through
Speaker 4: the night. By the time the sun rose, I was
Speaker 4: pretty shattered, and to be honest with you, my crew
Speaker 4: were actually preparing to extract me. They thought I wasn't
Speaker 4: going to make it. I was so down and out,
Speaker 4: like I really, you know, I ended up. I was
Speaker 4: crying in my goggles. I was so broken. I literally
Speaker 4: had just survived the night. And then I had a
Speaker 4: like a swarm of jellyfish invaded the cage, and the
Speaker 4: tentacles stung me on the face and they got me
Speaker 4: on the lips and inside my mouth, and it was
Speaker 4: kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back
Speaker 4: because I was so cold, I was so tired, was
Speaker 4: exhausted from just surviving the swells, and things had just calmed,
Speaker 4: and then, you know, I thought I had a little reprieve,
Speaker 4: and then the jellyfish came, and so I just.
Speaker 2: I just started crying.
Speaker 4: My gog was I kind of had a bit of
Speaker 4: a funny moment where I laughed to myself and thought, yet, great,
Speaker 4: more salt water, because my tears were salt, and I
Speaker 4: was just salt.
Speaker 2: Order had permeated everywhere.
Speaker 4: And so I had my throat and tongue was swollen
Speaker 4: up from the salt water. So I was struggling to
Speaker 4: take down sustenance. My stomach was churning because again I'd
Speaker 4: ingested salt order during the night. I had welts under
Speaker 4: my arms because saltiers very embracing, and so from the
Speaker 4: repetition of the arms turning over, I had massive welts
Speaker 4: under my arms. That just that, you know, the pain
Speaker 4: that seared every time I took another strike, just you know,
Speaker 4: another reminder of you know, the.
Speaker 2: Bad shape that I was in. But the jellyfish just
Speaker 2: really you know, with the icing on the cake.
Speaker 4: And so I remember, I actually and I know, and
Speaker 4: as I said, I could see all the crew they looked.
Speaker 4: I knew they were preparing. I knew what the process
Speaker 4: was to get me out, and I knew they were preparing.
Speaker 4: And I turned around to Dawn and I said, you know,
Speaker 4: how long have I got? Like, what's the worst case scenario?
Speaker 4: I was trying to prepare my mind to think, okay,
Speaker 4: how much further I got to go? And so I
Speaker 4: saw her go away and chat to the navigator, and
Speaker 4: she came back and she said to me, look, worst
Speaker 4: case scenario, you've got another six hours left, and to
Speaker 4: be honest with you, it almost broke me hearing six
Speaker 4: hours because I was finding it difficult to concentrate on
Speaker 4: the next six minutes, let alone six hours. So I
Speaker 4: really had to dig very very deep mentally and just
Speaker 4: concentrate on one really, really small thing and just say, Okay,
Speaker 4: it's six hours out of a whole life to do
Speaker 4: something that no one else has done before and tolerate
Speaker 4: a little bit of pain, So come on, let's get
Speaker 4: back to the job.
Speaker 2: And I fell back.
Speaker 4: Into a pattern that I practiced during my training when
Speaker 4: I was really tired, and that was just counting my strokes.
Speaker 4: So I'd count sort of up to twenty and then
Speaker 4: start again, count up to twenty, start again, and my
Speaker 4: goal was just to get to the next speed stop
Speaker 4: because I was feeding every half an hour. So it
Speaker 4: was literally, let's break this down to the smallest possible
Speaker 4: thing that I can do in this moment, you know,
Speaker 4: just to build a bit of momentum, because quite often
Speaker 4: when you're broken, you just need something to get the
Speaker 4: momentum back. And once you get your momentum, then you know,
Speaker 4: your mind starts to come on board and you can
Speaker 4: get to that next phase. So I was literally building
Speaker 4: my momentum, and I think I was swimming for about
Speaker 4: fifteen minutes, and then I started to hear this amazing
Speaker 4: clicking noise under the water, and I saw the crew
Speaker 4: all pointing to something in the distance, and I had
Speaker 4: an idea of what it might be. But within a
Speaker 4: couple of minutes, I had a pot of about thirty
Speaker 4: world dolphins swimming all around my cage, all underneath me,
Speaker 4: and the clarity of the water investrates such that I
Speaker 4: could see literally you know them alls, you know, sort
Speaker 4: of swimming around me.
Speaker 2: And they were so noisy.
Speaker 4: Literally for me, that was so noisy under the water,
Speaker 4: and I was just like in seventh Heaven. And I
Speaker 4: remember I turned around and I said, to doorn, you
Speaker 4: know right, stop the boat. I want to get out
Speaker 4: of the cage. I want to play with my dolphin
Speaker 4: mates for just a.
Speaker 2: Couple of minutes.
Speaker 4: And it was just one of those moments, you know,
Speaker 4: when sometimes you just need to build your bucket, you know,
Speaker 4: replended spirit. And even though I knew I was taking
Speaker 4: time away and tides could change and things, this is
Speaker 4: what I needed in that moment to you know, charge
Speaker 4: my battery back up again. And so I climbed out
Speaker 4: of the cage and I had the most incredible.
Speaker 2: Experience with the dolphins. They were just so close to me.
Speaker 4: There were a couple of baby dolphins in the pot
Speaker 4: and they were literally, like, you know, that close to me,
Speaker 4: and I was so inquisitive, and you know, just watching
Speaker 4: them and how they swam, you know, just made me
Speaker 4: feel like pretty insignificant because they were just so graceful
Speaker 4: moving through the water. But I kind of felt like
Speaker 4: they were there for a purpose and a reason and
Speaker 4: a kind of saying to me.
Speaker 2: Come on, you can do this. So I was recharged.
Speaker 4: I jumped back in the cage and kind of it
Speaker 4: was a real pivotal moment for me. And again my
Speaker 4: thinking became very.
Speaker 2: Steady at that point. But yeah, I'm going to make it.
Speaker 2: Nothing's going to stop me now.
Speaker 4: So you know, the dolphins stayed with me for another
Speaker 4: hour or so whilst I was in the cage, kind
Speaker 4: of just shadowing and yeah, and as I said, I
Speaker 4: finally made it to Apollo day and walked up the
Speaker 4: beach and it was just the most incredible experience of
Speaker 4: my life, really one of because you know, I didn't.
Speaker 2: Expect many people to be there.
Speaker 4: I just thought, like the rent a crowd, family would
Speaker 4: be there and that's it. But there were like three
Speaker 4: thousand people.
Speaker 2: On the beach because all the news.
Speaker 4: And started to sort of you know broadcast you know,
Speaker 4: the radio station.
Speaker 2: She's going to make it. She's like, you know, she's close.
Speaker 4: So people were activated and they literally just drove down
Speaker 4: to the finish to see me. And yes, it was
Speaker 4: just amazing. But the best part was having seen my parents,
Speaker 4: you know, because we had you know, I cried so
Speaker 4: my mum, dad because you know, but your parents know
Speaker 4: what you've been through, like not just for that particular thing,
Speaker 4: but the years of effort and sacrifice that have gone
Speaker 4: into you know, finishing that particular event or getting to
Speaker 4: the end of your goals.
Speaker 2: So it was a very very special moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that so much. I was just, yeah,
Speaker 3: so immersed in that when what I know and what
Speaker 3: you know is when we do things like this in sport,
Speaker 3: what we learn and we get to take out out
Speaker 3: of the water, out of the ring, out of into
Speaker 3: real life. Right, So we have these experiences and I
Speaker 3: know that now you get to reflect back through hard
Speaker 3: things and one you're already conditioned to a degree, you
Speaker 3: know what it feels like. You know how to cope,
Speaker 3: You've got all these tools. But what's different? What aren't
Speaker 3: you prepared for when it's a hard that you don't
Speaker 3: choose in comparison to a hard that you choose.
Speaker 2: Oh, I got a perfect example of that.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: Actually this coming week, I actually celebrate two years since
Speaker 4: I had my last cancer treatment, because I was diagnosed
Speaker 4: with breast cancer in twenty late twenty twenty three, and
Speaker 4: that was an endurance event of zone and not of
Speaker 4: my choosing, and it left me feeling very very vulnerable
Speaker 4: and in fact also betrayed because I guess, you know,
Speaker 4: my body has always done what I've told him to.
Speaker 2: Do, and here it was, you know, with a.
Speaker 4: Foreign thing inside, and all of a sudden I was
Speaker 4: thrown into the deep end of a very very different sort.
Speaker 4: So I felt very vulnerable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just I.
Speaker 4: Honestly didn't know how to react for a little bit
Speaker 4: when I was first off. But then I guess, you know,
Speaker 4: the mindset keep back in and it's just like a
Speaker 4: marathon swim, you know, you just have to transpose the
Speaker 4: lessons over and say, well, you know, you can't always
Speaker 4: see the finish line.
Speaker 2: But you've got to.
Speaker 4: Trust in the process and trust in that you have
Speaker 4: the strength to keep going and reflect on Okay, well,
Speaker 4: you've done lots of hard things, so now it's time
Speaker 4: to do another hard thing. But it's just going to
Speaker 4: be different. And although there were so many moments of
Speaker 4: darkness and doubt, you know, you wonder, you know, how
Speaker 4: am I going to come out of this on the
Speaker 4: other end? Am I going to make it through to
Speaker 4: the other end? How am I going to survive? What
Speaker 4: is it going to look like? You know, so much uncertainty,
Speaker 4: And although there were moments of darkness, there were also
Speaker 4: lots of moments of light and I think, you know,
Speaker 4: part of what we do is trying to find those
Speaker 4: rays of sunshine and have people around you that bring
Speaker 4: those rays of sunshine as well, so you know, through it,
Speaker 4: you know, although it was really difficult going through chema
Speaker 4: and going through surgery, you know, there were beautiful people
Speaker 4: always around me. Like you know, you have a laugh
Speaker 4: with the nest and you know, joke about something. When
Speaker 4: I remember when I first started chema, I chose an
Speaker 4: option where you wear this cold cap and it literally
Speaker 4: is supposed to help retain your hair. That's what they say.
Speaker 4: It takes an extra hour you have.
Speaker 2: To sit there. Excuse me, and.
Speaker 4: The irony of it. It looks like a swimming cap,
Speaker 4: like you just puts really really cold water into into
Speaker 4: the cap and it literally cools your head right down.
Speaker 4: And they said to me, oh, look, they didn't know
Speaker 4: why I was a swimmer anything about what it done.
Speaker 2: So there.
Speaker 4: The oncology would sat me listen it. You know, it's
Speaker 4: pretty tough. Like a lot of people just can't can't
Speaker 4: sit there for that long because it gets so cold.
Speaker 4: Your head gets really cold, and you know, if you
Speaker 4: need the dolls and stuff like, you know, we'll understand
Speaker 4: if you can't get through. So I'm sitting there and
Speaker 4: I've got the cap im in there pumping it through
Speaker 4: and I'm like and they go, how are you? And
Speaker 4: I'm like, is this as cold as it gets? And
Speaker 4: they were like, you know, like it was quite funny.
Speaker 4: So you know, so there moments where I just laughed
Speaker 4: and thought, see, you know, things that you do sometimes
Speaker 4: help you for something else.
Speaker 2: The on shod and be like, hey, oh look I.
Speaker 4: Tell you, but I think I tell you what I
Speaker 4: wasn't prepared for though. It was like after my second
Speaker 4: chemote session, I actually woke up one morning and I
Speaker 4: had just clamps of hair on my pillow and it just,
Speaker 4: you know, started to come out. And I know it
Speaker 4: seems really stupid, but I was just a mess. Like
Speaker 4: losing my hair was just like I don't know why,
Speaker 4: but it just made me feel, I don't know, so sad,
Speaker 4: so upset. And maybe maybe it's because up to that point,
Speaker 4: like I could do normal things and no one would
Speaker 4: actually know really that I was sick, Like you know,
Speaker 4: there wasn't any outward signs, and now I was losing
Speaker 4: my hair, and so you know, there was something that
Speaker 4: about that made me more vulnerable for people to kind
Speaker 4: of see what I was going through. And I remember,
Speaker 4: like I was just like I said, I cried, and
Speaker 4: I remember my daughter said to me, hey, Mum, do
Speaker 4: you want me to shave it for you? And I thought,
Speaker 4: oh god, she's a sweetheart, Like honestly, that's exactly what
Speaker 4: I needed. We've got the clippers out, we shaved my head,
Speaker 4: and it brought back that feeling of control because now
Speaker 4: you know, I.
Speaker 2: Was in charge of what was happening. It wasn't just
Speaker 2: happening to me.
Speaker 4: I had some sense of Okay, now I'm going to
Speaker 4: dictate what happens.
Speaker 2: And I felt so much better about it.
Speaker 4: And again my spirits picked up and it ended up
Speaker 4: all falling out. But you know, I was okay with
Speaker 4: that because I was already really short, and I discovered
Speaker 4: so many wonderful things, Like I was still trying to swim,
Speaker 4: so I was getting to the pool. I was only
Speaker 4: doing a couple of ka's, but I was able to
Speaker 4: swim without a cap for the first time and feel
Speaker 4: the water over my.
Speaker 2: Head, and I was stream wise, and I got out
Speaker 2: at the end.
Speaker 4: You know, I didn't have to spend ages in the shower,
Speaker 4: saving money on shampoo and conditioner, and mate, I used
Speaker 4: to spend so much time straightening my hair, and you
Speaker 4: know it, I was getting ready so fast.
Speaker 2: It was just unbelievable. So there were lots of perks,
Speaker 2: and I think we've always got to look for those perks, you.
Speaker 4: Know, I've got to look for those little tiny moments
Speaker 4: of goodness that you find, those little rainbows, and they're everywhere,
Speaker 4: but you just have to look for them. Even in
Speaker 4: the darker spots you can find them. But it's just
Speaker 4: having the mindset and the attitude to go. Do you know,
Speaker 4: I don't have to sit in this this space where
Speaker 4: I'm really like, it's okay to be there, and we
Speaker 4: all do it, so there's nothing wrong with it. But
Speaker 4: you know, it's about processing it and going like I've
Speaker 4: been here long enough. Now I have to find a
Speaker 4: way to lift myself back out again. So cancer really
Speaker 4: taught me that in a different way. But I just
Speaker 4: got to use the lessons, I guess in a different environment.
Speaker 4: And as I said, yeah, I wouldn't have gotten through again.
Speaker 4: Just like my swims where I had the all the
Speaker 4: crew on the support boat cheering me on and feeding
Speaker 4: me and encouraging me and being there for me and
Speaker 4: keeping me safe.
Speaker 2: I had that through my cancer journey to and again.
Speaker 4: Just beautiful moments where people I hadn't seen for years
Speaker 4: turned up at my doorstep and they cook food, you
Speaker 4: know when I was going through chemo. You know, calls
Speaker 4: and friends that offered to take my daughter to school.
Speaker 4: Just the most beautiful things, you know, people offering to
Speaker 4: help and come around and mow the lawns and do
Speaker 4: things for you, and it's actually to you. It is
Speaker 4: just the most beautiful feeling to know that you're surrounded
Speaker 4: by such wonderful people, that people people are genuinely really good.
Speaker 4: And I know we often get into that thought process.
Speaker 4: We hear about lots of bad stuff going on, and
Speaker 4: we kind of think humanity is going down the tubes.
Speaker 4: But people are inherently good and when they see somebody
Speaker 4: else needing help, they do step in. And that's been
Speaker 4: my experience, and that's probably been one of the most
Speaker 4: beautiful parts of going through cancer and understanding how many
Speaker 4: people are around me that you know that will help
Speaker 4: and you know that I'm part of this big community.
Speaker 3: Was it ever, what was the experience like of when
Speaker 3: you did lose your hair and you're stepping out into
Speaker 3: just into the world.
Speaker 2: Going shopping, going down a wall.
Speaker 3: So we have this, we have an identity, and we
Speaker 3: have a sense of self and we and we have
Speaker 3: I don't know this just way of being. But when
Speaker 3: people people project onto you, So they're going to look
Speaker 3: at this person no straight away that they're sick, there's
Speaker 3: going to be they're going to feel sympathy, and they're
Speaker 3: going to feel empathy, and they're going to be awkward
Speaker 3: and they're going to pretend to ignore it, or they're
Speaker 3: going to ask questions like what, how do you hold
Speaker 3: yourself in the middle of that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and again this was like a really massive learning
Speaker 4: journey for me because you know, going out, I wore
Speaker 4: I wore a hat. I didn't have like a lot
Speaker 4: of people get the wigs with the fake care so
Speaker 4: that you know, you can get these amazing things now
Speaker 4: that you can get a hat and has a little
Speaker 4: bit of hair hanging out the back and.
Speaker 2: You know, so you wouldn't even know.
Speaker 4: There was lots of options like that, and lots of
Speaker 4: people choose that, And I understand why, because you know,
Speaker 4: when you're sick and you're not feeling well and you're
Speaker 4: going through all of this, it is it is hard
Speaker 4: to also, you know, keep yourself mentally strong as well.
Speaker 4: But I just found I started wearing a hat and
Speaker 4: most of the time I really just thought, you know what,
Speaker 4: I don't care what other people pople think, like, I
Speaker 4: just sort of went and did my shopping, you know,
Speaker 4: went out to the world. I think maybe something that
Speaker 4: had helped me is i'd done an improv course not
Speaker 4: before I was diagnosed, and one of the exercises is
Speaker 4: necessarily funny. We actually had to go to the supermarket
Speaker 4: and put a bunch of bananas on a head and
Speaker 4: walk around the supermarket with a bunch of bananas on
Speaker 4: a head, like do our shopping with and see what
Speaker 4: the reaction was from people. Because the whole premise was
Speaker 4: is that you think people are looking at you and noticing.
Speaker 2: And really they don't care like you have.
Speaker 4: You know, we all think, oh my god, everybody's going
Speaker 4: to judge me, and that the real reality is is
Speaker 4: that most people are so busy doing their own things
Speaker 4: that they don't even notice. And I walked around with
Speaker 4: a bunch of bananas on my head for about five minutes,
Speaker 4: like all around the supermarket down the earth, and I
Speaker 4: got new comments and one elderly lady said to me,
Speaker 4: I'm like your.
Speaker 2: Hat, and that was We had a laugh, you know,
Speaker 2: and that was really about it. And I was so
Speaker 2: surprised that nobody really even noticed. So going, you know,
Speaker 2: going without my head.
Speaker 4: To the supermarket, I just you know, if they noticed,
Speaker 4: great they come up and say something, well, you know,
Speaker 4: I was more than prepared to sort of talk. But
Speaker 4: mostly I found that people might have known obviously they
Speaker 4: knew I was going through something and they were nice,
Speaker 4: you know, they were just super nice.
Speaker 2: They offered help.
Speaker 4: Like you know, I had people offered to carry my
Speaker 4: bags to the car that you know would never normally happen.
Speaker 2: So again you can be offended by that, but you.
Speaker 4: Know, I choose to see the good and think, isn't
Speaker 4: it lovely that people want help? And again, I guess
Speaker 4: it just comes down to your attitude and how confident
Speaker 4: you are in your own skin about those things. And
Speaker 4: it is a learning process. Really, you have to come
Speaker 4: to adapt. And I think, you know, that's the most
Speaker 4: brilliant thing about us is that we're so adaptable. Really,
Speaker 4: life is about adaptable, you know, adapting to different situations
Speaker 4: and just changing your perspective and understanding how other people perceive,
Speaker 4: but also thinking and understanding that sometimes you overthink things
Speaker 4: as well. So it's it's incredible, really we've got this
Speaker 4: mindset that is a superpower computer and doesn't come with
Speaker 4: the manual, and we're constantly learning how to adjust and
Speaker 4: what our limitations are and what expectations are of us,
Speaker 4: and how we can find our own happiness and navigate
Speaker 4: challenges and keep going, you know, get that fulfillment and happiness.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it was an interesting interesting to go through
Speaker 4: the experience as well. Like you know, obviously I wouldn't
Speaker 4: wish it on anyone. I think I'd rather be in
Speaker 4: the water facing sharks than waiting for a biopsy result.
Speaker 2: Ever, again because again it's the uncertainty.
Speaker 4: I think that's the that's the killer with that. It's
Speaker 4: just the uncertainty of not knowing. And it still goes
Speaker 4: on now because I have to go I'm clear, but
Speaker 4: you know, every sort of you know, six to twelve months,
Speaker 4: I go for different kinds of tests and you get
Speaker 4: checked and so you know, it really brings up what
Speaker 4: I call the scan anxiety, you know, waiting and seeing well,
Speaker 4: what if it's back, you know, what am I dealing with?
Speaker 2: And the new.
Speaker 4: Challenges of being on medication because I'm on tablets for
Speaker 4: the next seven years that really really have.
Speaker 2: I find that difficult too. That make my joints ache.
Speaker 4: I feel like I've aged about fifteen years, and physical
Speaker 4: things that I used to be able to do really
Speaker 4: easily now a lot harder.
Speaker 2: And I have to again, you know.
Speaker 4: Rethink what I can do and be adaptable and just
Speaker 4: go okay, well I can't do that, but I can
Speaker 4: do this and try and manage a bit better. So
Speaker 4: it's all, yeah, all that perspective.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do things like this change you at the very
Speaker 3: core or do you tend to bounce back as the
Speaker 3: same a version of the same person. Person.
Speaker 2: I don't think you can ever bounce back as the
Speaker 2: same I think you've lanned, You've gone through a really
Speaker 2: deep personal experience that's changed to the very core, and
Speaker 2: I think change for the good, to be honest, because
Speaker 2: I have so much more empathy as well, you know,
Speaker 2: see things in a different light. And it's that old
Speaker 2: story is like, if you've never been through an experience,
Speaker 2: it's really hard for you to relate. And I think
Speaker 2: when you go through an experience, you can relate better
Speaker 2: to others, and so it just it makes you a
Speaker 2: better person, I think, and changes your views if you
Speaker 2: take it that way, obviously, but you know, I think
Speaker 2: it really does help you understand the struggles that people
Speaker 2: go through.
Speaker 4: And yeah, even for me sitting in the Youngcology ward
Speaker 4: and getting your chemo treatment, I was looking around and
Speaker 4: you know, there were really young women in there with
Speaker 4: young kids, and it's a whole other situation, you know,
Speaker 4: if you're you've got a young family, and I thought.
Speaker 2: To myself, I'm so lucky.
Speaker 4: You know, my daughter's in their teenage years and I've
Speaker 4: finished obviously with family. But you know, that would be
Speaker 4: a whole other challenge. And I just thought, how how
Speaker 4: hard struggling in that position. So you can find things
Speaker 4: to be grateful for as well, And I think there's
Speaker 4: always somebody that's going through life and doing it a
Speaker 4: bit tougher than you. But you've just got to again,
Speaker 4: you know, be in that frame of mind to be
Speaker 4: grateful and think about the blessings that you do have.
Speaker 4: And a lot of the times, don't we get caught
Speaker 4: in our own.
Speaker 2: Situations, And you know it's easy to do.
Speaker 4: I do it too, like you know, I'm guilty of
Speaker 4: it as well, but you know, I try and bring
Speaker 4: myself back and I think going through the whole cancer
Speaker 4: experiences help me do that, you know, and see things
Speaker 4: from different perspectives again and just have more empathy for
Speaker 4: people that are struggling or you know, there's a story
Speaker 4: going on you might.
Speaker 2: Not know again, you know, you might see them with
Speaker 2: the hair the supermarket, but you don't know that they're
Speaker 2: going through chemo treatment.
Speaker 4: So sometimes we see visuals of what people are going
Speaker 4: through and other times we don't. We have no idea,
Speaker 4: We have no idea what they're struggling through. So it's
Speaker 4: about being kind even though someone might not be kind
Speaker 4: to you on a certain day. But again, you don't
Speaker 4: know what's led to that point. So I always try
Speaker 4: and keep that in my mind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an easy balance, or how do you how
Speaker 3: do you balance that idea of how to how to
Speaker 3: do all the positive stuff, how to be how to
Speaker 3: be present, be grateful, know that were that everyone goes
Speaker 3: through hardship, but also honor the pain and the self,
Speaker 3: you know, the self stuff, self compassion, allow yourself to
Speaker 3: feel it.
Speaker 2: It's it's you. Look, you know. I wish I could
Speaker 2: say he's the manual, here's how you do it. And
Speaker 2: like I said, enough, I want a refund.
Speaker 4: And you know what I'm I learn all the time,
Speaker 4: and I think life is just a learning journey and
Speaker 4: every day we learn and sometimes we don't get it right,
Speaker 4: but then we try.
Speaker 2: And I think it's all about the trying, you know.
Speaker 4: That's really the important part is having that mentality where
Speaker 4: you go, oh yeah, well I didn't really behave well yesterday,
Speaker 4: or I've been in a rut for a while, but
Speaker 4: I need to pick myself up and get going again
Speaker 4: and learn. You know, this is what I love about
Speaker 4: this day and ages. With technology now, we can learn
Speaker 4: so much. We can hear from so many people, we
Speaker 4: can be inspired by so many others, And I think
Speaker 4: it's all about keeping your finger on the big wide
Speaker 4: world and learning, you know, because I think through listening
Speaker 4: to others' journeys and being open to reading. I love reading,
Speaker 4: you know, just any kind of knowledge, I think keeps
Speaker 4: that mind again, it keeps you adaptable because it's giving
Speaker 4: you different perspectives and different opinions. It's a balance of
Speaker 4: trying to just keep that learning journey going and the
Speaker 4: awareness of knowing, Okay, I'm sitting in this space and
Speaker 4: it's not good and it's not good for me. So
Speaker 4: that's really for me. When I get in the negative space,
Speaker 4: you know, might not sleep because I'm ruminating on something.
Speaker 2: Next morning.
Speaker 4: I can't do this because it's detrimental to me. I
Speaker 4: need to be in a better space for me. I
Speaker 4: need to be a better mum, you know. I can't
Speaker 4: be fully present for my daughter. If I'm tired, and
Speaker 4: you know, then I get cranky. So it's like understanding
Speaker 4: how to balance your mind and your body as well.
Speaker 4: And yeah, it's tricky though, it's not easy. Like I said,
Speaker 4: it's just one of those things that I just intentionally
Speaker 4: try and learn. And I know that if I'm in
Speaker 4: a bad space, I just try and think, Okay, tomorrow,
Speaker 4: Tomorrow we're going to do something different, going to go
Speaker 4: for a walk in the morning, going to pay attention
Speaker 4: to everything going on, all the beds in the trees.
Speaker 4: And one thing that really picks me up is my dog.
Speaker 4: He's like, you know, I love the unconditional love of pets.
Speaker 4: I think you know when you go whether you go
Speaker 4: away for five minutes or you're away for an hour
Speaker 4: and you come back home and they're just waiting for
Speaker 4: you and they're just full of love and they just
Speaker 4: it's something that's so grounding and that really helps me
Speaker 4: a lot. And actually my dog Jasper really helped me
Speaker 4: through a lot of the cancer treatment too, because he
Speaker 4: just sit with me and sit.
Speaker 2: On my lapping. It was like he knew something was wrong.
Speaker 2: And even sleep on the bed beside me is just
Speaker 2: a lot more calm during that period. So yeah, little
Speaker 2: things like that.
Speaker 3: I know, dogs know everything.
Speaker 2: They do, dogs do.
Speaker 3: I say, my dog's my guru.
Speaker 2: Dogs are the guru.
Speaker 3: There are a little there are a little four.
Speaker 4: Legged fairy gurus, aren't they aren't they They just got
Speaker 4: that sense about them. They just you know, I don't
Speaker 4: know what it is. I felt like the dolphins had
Speaker 4: that too when I was I was fascinated. It's like,
Speaker 4: you know, it's funny you think they know, they know.
Speaker 4: If we believe that, then it does the right thing
Speaker 4: for us, right, So yeah, honestly, again, it's your perspective
Speaker 4: and taking a positive.
Speaker 2: Look on things and going.
Speaker 4: Yep, they got me, and then you know you're able
Speaker 4: to lift yourself and get out of bed. And that's
Speaker 4: all you need is that first lega Really, it's the
Speaker 4: hard things. The hardest part about the hard things is
Speaker 4: finding the momentum to get going, just building that first step. So,
Speaker 4: you know, one stroke at a time has always been
Speaker 4: my motto and always think back to, you know, the
Speaker 4: hard times is that, you know, taking that one stroke
Speaker 4: and getting to the next moment and then get into
Speaker 4: the next moment.
Speaker 3: So yeah, good listening forever, forever, just switch off my mic,
Speaker 3: keep my earphones in and just listen to you. Keep talking.
Speaker 2: We'll wrap it up there.
Speaker 3: But I am going to be tugging at your sleeve
Speaker 3: because there's so much more in your world that I'd
Speaker 3: love to talk about, and I just want to keep
Speaker 3: listening to you, so I'll be I'll be hassling you
Speaker 3: and my listener.
Speaker 2: You don't have to hassle. I'll be on anytime you
Speaker 2: know that.
Speaker 3: You would you like to direct the listeners to where
Speaker 3: they can find you, follow you and get in touch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure if they want you.
Speaker 4: I'm on Instagram and it's just my just my name,
Speaker 4: Tammy Van, with the same with the If you want
Speaker 4: to check out my website or you know, book me
Speaker 4: for a speaking engagement. Again, it's just Tammy Van WISA
Speaker 4: dot com. So I've got a pretty unusual surname. You'll
Speaker 4: find me just typing crazy, marathon swimmer and Tammy.
Speaker 3: There's only one.
Speaker 2: That's that's it.
Speaker 3: I'll have your I'll have the website in the show notes.
Speaker 3: So thank you so much. I'm glad our pards Christ
Speaker 3: and I'm glad that it wasn't in the water, because
Speaker 3: I would be sinking at the bottom.
Speaker 2: But in the boxing ring for me, that could have
Speaker 2: been really that could have ended badly too.
Speaker 3: On try Land and out of the boxing ring we
Speaker 3: can be besties. Thank you so much, Tammy, and thanks everyone.
Speaker 1: She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.