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Speaker 1: A good a team. It's quig Afty Harp. It's the

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Speaker 1: ninth of January, ninth of January twenty twenty sixth as

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Speaker 1: I record this, we're well and truly into the new year.

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Speaker 1: We're up and running well more accurately in Melbourne at

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Speaker 1: this point in time, without trying to sound like a

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Speaker 1: fucking broken record, but it is persistently Sweltering is not

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Speaker 1: even a good word. It's it's what. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what hotter than sweltering is, but that's what it is. Now.

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Speaker 1: I know that you're in the middle of the heat

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Speaker 1: most of the time, doctor Sam. Forty four in Melbourne

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Speaker 1: yesterday and forty three today, so and really windy and

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Speaker 1: lots of fires. So and we're not conditioned to it.

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Speaker 2: You know, that would just be unheard of for you guys.

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Speaker 1: Hate to reach it well now and then yeah sorry

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Speaker 1: now and then it gets there. But also you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like tomorrow. I think it's like today was forty four,

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Speaker 1: tomorrow is like twenty three. It's just so so hey anyway.

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Speaker 2: Happy New Year, Happy New Year to you too.

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Speaker 1: Did you have a good break did you do any

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Speaker 1: I know the answer to this question, but our listeners

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Speaker 1: don't because you had a brief chat. But did you

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Speaker 1: do anything for the break? Did you go away? Did

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Speaker 1: you have a holiday?

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Speaker 2: Yes? I did. I went to Argentina for a few weeks.

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Speaker 2: That was amazing. And then I was in Perth visiting

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Speaker 2: families that was also good. So I feel like I had,

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Speaker 2: you know, two different kinds of holidays, right, So it

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Speaker 2: was kind of good. It was both cut filling but

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Speaker 2: in different ways. That I love doing holidays like that,

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Speaker 2: rather than trying to combine all the things I think about.

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Speaker 2: I really want to do a family holiday and I

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Speaker 2: will do that. And then I really want to do

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Speaker 2: a holiday that is actually relaxing and I get to

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Speaker 2: slow down that pace. And I got that too, So

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Speaker 2: it was great.

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Speaker 1: Now I know this because you already told me one

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Speaker 1: was with the kids and one was without. We'll actually

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Speaker 1: come back to that in a moment, but I just

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Speaker 1: you said a really interesting term, and the term was

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Speaker 1: cup filling. Both cup feeling but in different ways. What

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Speaker 1: can you I get what that means, but in what

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Speaker 1: ways did both of those you know, one in Argentina,

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Speaker 1: which seems very you know, fabulous and amazing and exotic,

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Speaker 1: and one in perth like differentiate between those How did

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Speaker 1: they feel your cup?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think if you know cut filing activities

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Speaker 2: can it can feel contradictory at times. Right, So if

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Speaker 2: you think about, you know, the average working mom, we

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Speaker 2: we're working, and we're trying to juggle all the things,

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Speaker 2: our kids, a work life, and there's not so much

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Speaker 2: space for us to recharge. And so when you think

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Speaker 2: of a holiday, you know, when you get annual leave

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Speaker 2: from work, you think of it as a Okay, this

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Speaker 2: is supposed to restore my energy to go back and work.

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Speaker 2: But what generally happens when you only use your holidays

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Speaker 2: when your kids have holidays is you're actually just parenting

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Speaker 2: in another city or you're doing probably more of the

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Speaker 2: things at home. And so even though you view being

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Speaker 2: with your kids as cup feeling, you actually come back

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Speaker 2: even more to plead. And so when I think about

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Speaker 2: the things that fill up my cup, I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: I love to spend time alone and traveling and sitting

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Speaker 2: with myself and going at my own pace and giving

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Speaker 2: myself what I need. And of course I also like

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Speaker 2: to be with my kids and do fun things and

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Speaker 2: pick up that pace. And so yeah, the Argentina trip

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Speaker 2: because it was without the kids. It was really it's

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Speaker 2: actually uncomfortable, I think as a mom, when you're so

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Speaker 2: used to focusing on others and taking care of others,

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Speaker 2: to have a holiday where you're like, what do I

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Speaker 2: want to do? What do I want to eat? Where

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Speaker 2: do I want to go? And you know, it's kind

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Speaker 2: of relearning to trust myself and listen to my cues,

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Speaker 2: and that feels very restorative. And then because I've had that, right,

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Speaker 2: I come back and I'm in the mode of having,

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Speaker 2: you know, the kids around and doing all, you know,

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Speaker 2: the kid kind of related activities. But I know what

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Speaker 2: the purpose of that is. That purpose isn't actually a

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Speaker 2: relaxing holiday for me. It is to spend time with

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Speaker 2: the kids, which is cut feeling. And so I think

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Speaker 2: it's really important. You know, we often as moms try

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Speaker 2: and multitask all the things, and I think I'm very

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Speaker 2: much about being present and I love being able to

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Speaker 2: be present with myself and present with my kids, and

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Speaker 2: sometimes that means to separate the two.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like, you know, shout out to mums,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not just saying that because you're a mum

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Speaker 1: and we're talking about mums are so great. My mum's

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Speaker 1: eighty six and she's she's still a mum though she

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Speaker 1: still thinks like a mum. I know that sounds dumby.

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Speaker 2: No, does it?

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Speaker 1: No? No, But it's like she's My mom's really religious, right,

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Speaker 1: So my mum's big thing. Like when I've got stuff on,

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Speaker 1: she just prays for me and she's like, I've been

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Speaker 1: praying for you today. I'm like, thank you, Mom, Like

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Speaker 1: that's her thing. And she'll you know, when I like

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Speaker 1: I said, she's eighty six, I'll go up there and

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Speaker 1: she will have been cooking food through the day, put

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Speaker 1: them in little freezer bags and packs and put them

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Speaker 1: in the freezer. So she's still cooking for me, and

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Speaker 1: she's still worrying because I look gaunt or you look skinnish,

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Speaker 1: tells me, I look that. She's not trying to be insulting.

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Speaker 3: She's been language seems right, yeah, yeah, her love language

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Speaker 3: is Yeah, my mum is not a big hugger or

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Speaker 3: cuddler or but she has started to say I love you,

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Speaker 3: which she never did, right because she had a very tough,

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Speaker 3: tough childhood and that just wasn't part of her childhood.

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Speaker 1: Experience or vocabulary or you know, she didn't have a

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Speaker 1: mom because her mom died giving birth to her right,

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Speaker 1: so all of these things. But it's so funny. I

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Speaker 1: look at my mum and among all the myriad of

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Speaker 1: intersecting variables, you know, the you know, the physiological and

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Speaker 1: the cognitive and the social and the hearing and the

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Speaker 1: you know, all of the decline that's happening, as it

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Speaker 1: does with everybody. In the middle of all of that,

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Speaker 1: she's still a mum worrying about her son. Like it

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Speaker 1: just doesn't go away.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't stop. And you know, it's interesting. A lot

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Speaker 2: of moms say, I just need to get through, you know,

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Speaker 2: until my kids get to school, and then I'm going

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Speaker 2: to be able to rest. And then they have the

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Speaker 2: worries about the school situation, and then they think for

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Speaker 2: high school and then the adult and beinger grandparents. So

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Speaker 2: you're right, it doesn't end.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And it doesn't matter what I what I

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Speaker 1: tell I go, Mum, I'm great, I'm literally great. There's

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Speaker 1: nothing to worry about, you know, and she doesn't. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't change.

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Speaker 4: It's yeah, it's what's the when you're away from your kids,

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Speaker 4: and maybe you could extrapolate, well maybe speak for you,

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Speaker 4: but also more broadly for all of the parents that

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Speaker 4: you work.

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Speaker 1: With when you're away from your kids. And it's three weeks,

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Speaker 1: which I guess is a huge amount of time compared

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Speaker 1: to you know, like you would get a few hours

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Speaker 1: away from your kids and then feel like a mini holiday, right,

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Speaker 1: so to have three weeks And of course you're doing

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Speaker 1: the right thing, and of course that's not a bad

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Speaker 1: thing on any level. But is there just because you're

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Speaker 1: a mum, is there any guilt or any kind of

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Speaker 1: feelings that are negative feelings associated with not being with them?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so interesting you asked that, because you know, if

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Speaker 2: I look back a few years ago, I had so

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Speaker 2: much anxiety about leaving my child at all, like I

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Speaker 2: just in general, sorry, not even sorry, not even a

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Speaker 2: few years back when I first became a mum, the

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Speaker 2: thought of that just made me not you know, like

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Speaker 2: completely shut down. And I remember the first flight I

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Speaker 2: took away from my child, and it was like a

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Speaker 2: medical appointment because I lived in you know, wook book

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Speaker 2: and I had what I felt like it was an

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Speaker 2: anxiety attack on the plane, like I just I struggled,

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Speaker 2: And for me, that was an indication of I need

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Speaker 2: to do this more. This is not healthy, this is

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Speaker 2: not good for him or for me, And so I

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Speaker 2: was conscious of that and I worked up, you know,

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Speaker 2: to that I made sure then when I wanted to

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Speaker 2: quit all my work and study, I made sure that

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Speaker 2: I kept that. I made sure that I built in

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Speaker 2: these things. And so you may look at three weeks

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Speaker 2: being like wow, but it definitely was a lead up

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Speaker 2: to that. And I remember the first time I did

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Speaker 2: a three week block. It was last year actually, and

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Speaker 2: I not last year, the year before, sorry, and I

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Speaker 2: did not want to do it, like the thought of

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Speaker 2: three weeks just felt debilitating. And I remember actually my

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Speaker 2: own dad waking me through that, and it was interesting

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Speaker 2: because it kind of called me out on the stories

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Speaker 2: I had attached to that of why that wouldn't be

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Speaker 2: okay and how I would not survive or the kids

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Speaker 2: would not be okay. And when I realized that these

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Speaker 2: are just stories and if anything, it's going to help

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Speaker 2: me towards my own growth, I pushed through it, despite

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Speaker 2: the anxiety, despite me wanting to cancel it, And honestly,

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Speaker 2: that was the most I would say life changing trip

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Speaker 2: I've had for myself and it completely changed the course

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Speaker 2: of my life into in terms of where I was going,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't even realize it. It was years before

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Speaker 2: I actually stopped, you know, like I was actually on

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Speaker 2: survival mode for quite some time, and that trip was

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Speaker 2: really pivotable. And this was in twenty twenty four. It

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Speaker 2: was so pivotal towards the direction I was going in

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Speaker 2: because for the first time I actually just sat with

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Speaker 2: myself and I didn't think about what somebody else wanted

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Speaker 2: from me, and I was like, I'm just going to

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Speaker 2: start to learn to listen to my cues, and that

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Speaker 2: only benefits your kids, to be honest, Like, if you

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Speaker 2: don't take the space away from your life to do that, honestly,

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Speaker 2: whether it's like half an hour or three weeks, if

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Speaker 2: you don't take the space to do that, people around you,

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Speaker 2: you know, they feel that bad as well when we

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Speaker 2: use others to fill us up. So I do feel like,

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Speaker 2: in whichever way you want to do it, it's such

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Speaker 2: a necessary part of growth to have little time alone,

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Speaker 2: whatever that looks like for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And also we will point out to our

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Speaker 1: listeners who are probably thinking, oh my god, where were

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Speaker 1: you kids for three weeks they were with their dad, right,

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Speaker 1: so it's not like it's not like they were parentless.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, and its interesting though as well. Sorry to

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Speaker 2: cut you off there, but if a father did that,

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Speaker 2: no one kind of bot sized right when there's like

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Speaker 2: a work trip on or a father's away. But when

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Speaker 2: a mom does it, it just there's a different story

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Speaker 2: attached to it. And I very much like to point

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Speaker 2: that out because we often put so much importance, say

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Speaker 2: on a three week period, but what about what our

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Speaker 2: lifestyle looks like on a daily basis. You know, for me,

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Speaker 2: I build in so much quality time with my kids

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Speaker 2: when I do have them, so it yeah, it doesn't.

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Speaker 2: I would much prefer it that way. You know. Then

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling like my leave is the only time with them, for.

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Speaker 1: Example, without getting too specific or talking about anything you

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Speaker 1: don't want to talk about. So you and the kid's

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Speaker 1: dad split a while ago? What was that like a

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Speaker 1: year or three years or given?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, about three and a half years ago.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And I guess the reason that I want to

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Speaker 1: open that door a little bit is if it's all

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Speaker 1: right with you and feel free to not talk about

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Speaker 1: what you don't want to talk about. But what's interesting

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Speaker 1: is one you went through that just you as a mum,

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Speaker 1: as a wife, as a human, as someone who was

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Speaker 1: married and then broke up, which is an incredibly common

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Speaker 1: part of the human experience. It's not like you invented it, right,

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Speaker 1: But so you go through it as just not just

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Speaker 1: but as a regular human being. But then you also

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Speaker 1: go through it as a psychologist who works with people

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Speaker 1: going through stuff like this and kids going through So

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Speaker 1: you're working with the parents, and you're working with the

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Speaker 1: children of people who have separated or divorced or are

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Speaker 1: in the middle of that process, which can be very

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Speaker 1: lumpy and bumpy. I would assume what did you, if anything, like,

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Speaker 1: what did you learn, both just as a mum and

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Speaker 1: as a person, but also as a psychologist dealing with

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Speaker 1: people going through that themselves, Like what were, if anything,

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Speaker 1: any of the light bulbs or revelations for you.

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Speaker 2: That's such a good question. Yeah, because being a child therapist, right,

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Speaker 2: I've obviously sat with kids going through this transition. I've

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Speaker 2: talked to parents around helping their child navigate this, and

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Speaker 2: then yeah, me going through it. And so it's interesting

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Speaker 2: because when we go through a life transition like this,

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Speaker 2: we don't go through it from the skills that we

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Speaker 2: have or the experiences just professionally. We go through it

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Speaker 2: from our own conditioning. So my parents got divorced when

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Speaker 2: I was school aged, and I had a lot of

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Speaker 2: stories around this of how I never wanted to get

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Speaker 2: divorced and give my child, you know, the life that

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Speaker 2: they had, and no matter what, you know, I was

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Speaker 2: going to keep family together. And so it was really

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Speaker 2: my stories, and I would say probably my own unprocessed

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Speaker 2: trauma around that that actually impacted how I responded and

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Speaker 2: or how I felt sorry in this process, rather than

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Speaker 2: the skills and the tools that I had, Because remember,

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Speaker 2: when we're in a state of whether it's fear or

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Speaker 2: grief or anxiety or you know, processing our own heavy emotions,

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Speaker 2: we're not drawing upon the skills that we've learned. We

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Speaker 2: are drawing upon our past experiences. So it was very

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Speaker 2: hard to get clarity around that. But I think probably

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Speaker 2: what the most important insight I got from that is

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Speaker 2: how I viewed the situation. What I was going through right,

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Speaker 2: being an adult and being part of this dynamic is

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Speaker 2: very different from what the child experience is. For them,

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Speaker 2: the whole world has come crashing down, and that's really

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Speaker 2: hard for parents to actually take a step back and

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Speaker 2: sit with because they're like, oh, no, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: buffer that for them, and I'm and no, that's not

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Speaker 2: how it's going to be and this is going to

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Speaker 2: be better and all the ways that we justified that,

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Speaker 2: but just initially, the whole world is crushing down and

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Speaker 2: allowing time and space for that grief and for that process.

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Speaker 2: And you've got a lot of things that you can't

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Speaker 2: control in this situation, somebody else's narrative or other external

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Speaker 2: influences around that as well. But if anything, I think

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Speaker 2: it's really important rather than you know, as we can

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Speaker 2: be caught up in a reactive kind of approach and response,

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Speaker 2: to really start connecting with our own values and really

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Speaker 2: connecting with our own growth around this as well, and

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Speaker 2: supporting the child through. Like you said in necessary parts,

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Speaker 2: sometimes if life endings and transitions.

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Speaker 1: Is what is the really or what is the most

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Speaker 1: common kind of challenge for the kids? Like when you

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Speaker 1: like a lot of kids respond this way or that way,

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Speaker 1: and so we're constantly trying to mitigate this or navigate

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Speaker 1: that or remedy that is there. And I know everyone responds.

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Speaker 1: Grown ups and kids respond differently to similar circumstances. But

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Speaker 1: is there something is it more practical? Is it about fear,

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Speaker 1: is it about navigating the uncertain? What is it that's

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Speaker 1: a real common denominator with kids going through that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting you say that. I look at the research

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Speaker 2: around that, and it's not divorce that is harmful to children.

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Speaker 2: It's a conflict which can actually happen in a marriage

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Speaker 2: or divorce, right, and just often because of divorce is

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Speaker 2: more conflict at times. So I think what really impacts

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Speaker 2: kids is if you could imagine for a child, they're

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Speaker 2: half their mom, they're half their dad, and so they're

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Speaker 2: often quite privy to adult conversations post divorce, whether it's

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Speaker 2: from another parent or you know, other family members giving

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Speaker 2: their opinion, or just other things right from friends or

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Speaker 2: whatever else. And that's confusing for a child when they are,

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Speaker 2: you know, they've got their identity being both their both parents,

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Speaker 2: and then both their parents are no longer together, and

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Speaker 2: there's this kind of sense of these really kind of

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Speaker 2: strong or heavy feelings, and it's hard for them to

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Speaker 2: make sense of that too, and especially when they personalize

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Speaker 2: that right or make that a story about them, like

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Speaker 2: you know, as you probably have seen right with a

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Speaker 2: lot of separated parents, and they've got different ideas about parenting,

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Speaker 2: They've got different ideas about what should happen in their house.

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Speaker 2: And then there's sometimes elements of you know, trying to

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Speaker 2: keep what we determine as consistency for kids. But if anything,

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Speaker 2: it creates more conflicts, right because one parents may be

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Speaker 2: trying to say that their way is a better way

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Speaker 2: or vice versa, and so kids are trying to figure

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Speaker 2: out like who side do I go on? Mum or doubt?

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Speaker 2: And I think the biggest thing that we can do

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Speaker 2: for kids is you just ever a mum and a doubt,

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Speaker 2: Like they're not in competition, right, like I'm not in

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Speaker 2: a condition with the other parent, vice versa. And the

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Speaker 2: more that I think parents can actually really advocate this

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Speaker 2: to kids and more than that drops and they're like,

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Speaker 2: I don't need to pick a side. I can love

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Speaker 2: both mom and doubt, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I feel like, I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 1: you're the expert in this, and I've never even been married,

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Speaker 1: So take what I'm about to say with a grain

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Speaker 1: of salt as a a casual observer. But there are

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Speaker 1: definitely times when one or the other or both try

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Speaker 1: to turn the kids again to the other parent. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the saddest shit of all time to me, because

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Speaker 1: to me, that's just the parent making it all about themselves.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, I think it's one of the most harmful, sorry,

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Speaker 2: things that they can do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, why why is that? I mean, look, I

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Speaker 1: mean and let's okay, let's just say and remember everyone,

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Speaker 1: this is just a conversation. This is not therapy, this

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Speaker 1: is not advice. Is to people having a chat. But like,

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Speaker 1: all right, let's say sometimes one of the parents is

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Speaker 1: let's just say, not a great human, right, or you know,

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Speaker 1: whichever one lets somebody's like a real problem. Well I

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Speaker 1: get it. But you know, if we're talking about a

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Speaker 1: lot of marriages where for whatever reason, it just falls apart,

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Speaker 1: they fall out of love, it's not going great. And

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Speaker 1: you know, but then when you see and I've seen it,

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Speaker 1: and even with people that I've known, where one or

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Speaker 1: the other or both are trying to poison the mind

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Speaker 1: of the child against the other parent, am like, what

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Speaker 1: the fuck are you doing? Like what are you what

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Speaker 1: are you doing? Like what is your intention here? Like

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Speaker 1: what do you think the upside of this is and

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Speaker 1: again I'm not trying to judge anyone, and people are

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Speaker 1: listening to this gun you wouldn't fucking know. I know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm asking the questions, but it just

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Speaker 1: to me that that like using kids almost as pawns

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Speaker 1: in a like a human chest gain to go some

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Speaker 1: kind of fucking leverage.

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Speaker 2: It very much is. And you know, I think a

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Speaker 2: perfect example of this, and you know it's definitely a

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Speaker 2: sensitive topic, right, but let's say there is a say

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Speaker 2: this infidelity, Okay, so let's just say as a mum,

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Speaker 2: and then the dad, there's a you know, he cheated,

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Speaker 2: for example, a lot of the time, unless sure, he

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Speaker 2: stays with women a lot of the time. And I

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Speaker 2: hear this from a lot, you know, being a therapist

365
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Speaker 2: for mums where they've come in and they've like, he's

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Speaker 2: a cheater. He's not a good dad because he's a cheater. Right,

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Speaker 2: He's broken up this family and the kids need to

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Speaker 2: know what he's like, and he's creating this new woman

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Speaker 2: around and you know it's impacting them and you can

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Speaker 2: see it's it's definitely their own unresolved issues, right because

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Speaker 2: if you think about it, for a lot of the

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Speaker 2: reality actually, you know, sometimes for a lot of males,

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Speaker 2: if they haven't taken the primary care given role, is

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Speaker 2: actually having a partner probably helps them. It actually probably

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Speaker 2: helps the child because the child's got another parent to

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Speaker 2: bounce off, or another parent's figure to bounce off. So

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00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,399
Speaker 2: that's actually not the issue. And it's very normal for

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Speaker 2: parents to have other partners and for children to transition

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Speaker 2: with that. So that's not the issue. But what happens is,

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Speaker 2: say the mum in that situation might really talk to

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Speaker 2: the child about that, you know, he's picking this new

382
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Speaker 2: woman over you. If he really loved you, guys, he

383
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Speaker 2: would prior to as you. And so what happens is

384
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,199
Speaker 2: we create this unhealthy balance if the mom kind of

385
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 2: using the children as a pseudo partner and emotionally leaning

386
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Speaker 2: on them and talking about how that's a healthier dynamic

387
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Speaker 2: than what the dad's doing, which is living his own

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Speaker 2: life and having a partner and then obviously seeing his kids.

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Speaker 2: And this actually is what she's thinking doing where she's

390
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Speaker 2: pointing out the dad's flaws and it's hurting him, it's

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Speaker 2: actually hurting the kids because that isn't a fact, right, Yes,

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Speaker 2: he's got a new partner. That's a fact. And yes

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Speaker 2: he's spending time with a new partner, that's a fact.

394
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Speaker 2: But it's not a fact that he's now spending time

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Speaker 2: with a partner and you know he's choosing the partner

396
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Speaker 2: of the child. That's not the case at all. And

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Speaker 2: so if we want to support children in that, we

398
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Speaker 2: really want to help to I would say keep the

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Speaker 2: parents to our relationship intact and protect it with all

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Speaker 2: that we have. And so if you're the other parent

401
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,440
Speaker 2: on that, knowing that you might have so much anger

402
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 2: and hate and discust in that person for what they

403
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,639
Speaker 2: did or whatever else that is, but that's our own issue,

404
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 2: and you know directly relates to our relationship with them.

405
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Speaker 2: The child wants to have a healthy relationship with their parent.

406
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Speaker 2: They would benefit most a healthy relationship with their parent.

407
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Speaker 2: And that has absolutely nothing to do with who they're

408
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Speaker 2: with and who they're not and what the parent, you know,

409
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 2: their job, they have, or anything else in their life.

410
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,119
Speaker 2: It's how do they emotionally respond to their child. And

411
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Speaker 2: as the parent are the parent in that dynamic, we

412
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,719
Speaker 2: can go are we putting energy into running down as

413
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,880
Speaker 2: other parent or we're actually putting energy into how we're

414
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Speaker 2: showing up for this child and our own relationship with

415
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Speaker 2: this child, and what we are actually modeling for this child.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's where we take the power back

417
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,360
Speaker 2: for any of us. Right, And of course is hurt

418
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Speaker 2: and pain, you know, in these kind of situations, but

419
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,359
Speaker 2: it's really not helpful for children when we at our

420
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Speaker 2: own stories that run down, right, someone that.

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Speaker 1: Think, I think, yeah, so I'm going to go to

422
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Speaker 1: bat for the women who that happens to. But I

423
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Speaker 1: totally understand. I'm not disagreeing, but I think what happens,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I've been on the outside

425
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Speaker 1: looking in, so it's like I've never played netball, but

426
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Speaker 1: I've trained elite netballers, so I've done a lot of

427
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 1: watch of netball. I've trained national and international level netballers,

428
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Speaker 1: so I have a pretty good understanding even though I've

429
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 1: never played. Now, Similarly, I've been on the outside and

430
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Speaker 1: up close of many of these breakups and breakdowns with

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00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 1: people on both sides cheating, by the way, and I

432
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 1: think that that firstly, let's just go with your case, guy,

433
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:31,120
Speaker 1: cheated ladies, you know, understandably fucking wild and like I've

434
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: had women say to me the moment that he decided

435
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: to put his dick over there, well, he chose her

436
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:45,199
Speaker 1: over the kids. And I understand that anger, and I

437
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: even understand that psychology. I understand that mindset, but I

438
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: think sometimes they're giving the guy far more intellectual credit

439
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 1: than he deserves. He just literally wasn't thinking And did

440
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: he do the wrong thing? Yes, And is he a

441
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: prick for doing that? Yes, and all that stuff, and

442
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 1: I get it. But also you go, well, you know,

443
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: for the next fifty years or whatever, he's still going

444
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: to be their dad, and I don't know that. And

445
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 1: I understand the desire to punish him, yes, or her,

446
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. But yeah, I think the

447
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: real thing is not how do I make him suffer?

448
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: But how do I give my children the best possible

449
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 1: chance of being healthy, functional kids? What does that look like? Yeah,

450
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 1: but as this is coming out of my mouth, I

451
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 1: almost feel fucking unqual. I am unqualified. But it's it's

452
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 1: so complicated, Sam, because like it's emotional, it's psychological, it's practical,

453
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 1: it's financial, it's it's you know, there are so many

454
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: very and so many kind of intersections that bump into

455
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: each other. And I also know couples that have broken

456
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: up and it's from day one almost it's been pretty good,

457
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: not even a drama.

458
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 2: And see, this is what's really hard. Like you said,

459
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 2: there is so complex and often people are struggling with

460
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 2: things that we can't tell from the outside, right. You know,

461
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 2: we might think it's, say in that case, infidelity, but

462
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,120
Speaker 2: there's actually coercive control or domestic violence or anything like that.

463
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 2: And so what we look at a response to a

464
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 2: situation we kind of don't know, right or what is

465
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 2: a lead up to that? This is what's really hard.

466
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 2: But I think say, in this situation, you know that

467
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 2: woman deserves to have a partner that values and cherishes

468
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 2: her and has to say morals as her and values.

469
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 2: And so when you look at it from that perspective,

470
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 2: I would say it's doing her a favor, not just

471
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 2: her kids, but going do why Yes, I'm going to

472
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: be angry and I'm going to be grieving and processing,

473
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,959
Speaker 2: but ultimately, what do I want from my life? Because

474
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 2: I don't want to be bitter and resentful?

475
00:23:58,800 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: Right?

476
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 2: You know for this women, she would want to live

477
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: a life that is actually you know, aligned with her

478
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 2: and getting the love that she receives and being able to,

479
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 2: like you said, model something of that for her children.

480
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think that there's so much stages that

481
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 2: we don't see with separations and and grieving and all

482
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 2: of that. But I think it's I think there are

483
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,640
Speaker 2: ways where we can be able to acknowledge that hurt

484
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: and that pain and that process but going hey, like

485
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: this is this is the impact and what do we

486
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: do about it? How do we get everyone to be

487
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 2: able to get the support that they need acknowledging everyone's

488
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 2: pain and hurden feelings in that situation.

489
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, do the kids ever blame themselves for what

490
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 1: mom and dad are doing? Do they do they ever

491
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: feel like they're the problem?

492
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think kids do internalize that because I think

493
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 2: sometimes they may attribute their behavior right as a you know,

494
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 2: if only I didn't do this bit, then that that

495
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 2: would be a problem. And I think what happens when

496
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: children are dealing with parents that they have to kind

497
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: of walk on eggshells around emotionally or they feel emotionally

498
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 2: responsible for then yeah, they're going to kind of mask

499
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 2: it and they're going to be like, oh, mom and

500
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 2: Dad's got too much going on I'm okay, I'm fine, like,

501
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 2: don't worry about me. You know, you guys have enough

502
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 2: on your plate kind of thing, and we don't want

503
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 2: that either. So when we see children struggling again, you know,

504
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 2: we can look at it from a way off. This

505
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 2: is not great and we need to do something about it,

506
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 2: but we can also look at it as a way

507
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: of going, wow, this is great that the children the

508
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 2: child feels safe enough to either tell us that show

509
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: us that it gives us something to work with, and

510
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: we want that for kids. We don't want kids to

511
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 2: bottle all in and for this to come up much

512
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 2: later in an explosive way. We want to be able

513
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: to know about this so we can help them process

514
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: that too, and we're the only ones in that environment

515
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 2: as well as a child therapist. There's only so much

516
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: I can do in a therapy room with a child

517
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 2: where I'm talking about these things and then they go

518
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: back into the conflicts.

519
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: Right.

520
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 2: We want parents to actually understand the lens of this

521
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 2: is kind of where the needle mover is. You know,

522
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 2: this doesn't matter as much, but this go all in

523
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 2: on that let the other stuff go right. Good enough

524
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 2: is good enough for the other stuff, but this is

525
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 2: kind of the area that you really want to target,

526
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: for example, that's going to be the most impactful or

527
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: the needle mover in this situation.

528
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: Hm. Wow, that is super interesting. What about let's just

529
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: step back to where we were fifteen or twenty minutes ago,

530
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: about you going away and you're feeling a bit guilty,

531
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: not so much this time, and then understanding that and

532
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: you know the dynamics around you know, as a parent,

533
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: you want to protect your kid, love your kid. You

534
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 1: don't want bad shit to happen to them. You don't

535
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: want them to feel lonely or abandoned or all of

536
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: that stuff. Right. But then I guess at the other

537
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: end of the scale, and I'm talking, as you know,

538
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 1: just an old bloke who doesn't really have any experience,

539
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: but as an observer, I feel like, you know, I've

540
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: worked with lots of parents and their kids when I

541
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: owned gyms, where there would be kids that would turn

542
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: up to the gym with their dad or their mum

543
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: it's still workout or and some of those kids were

544
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: so fucking spoiled, right yeah, and so molly coddled and

545
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: so much. I don't know what the term is helicopter parenting,

546
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: where like the kid was micro managed their emotions, they're

547
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: everything what they They couldn't swing on the playground, they

548
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: couldn't climb a tree, they couldn't talk to anyone, They

549
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: couldn't you know, I'm like, what's the consequence of I

550
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: don't know if there's a better term. You tell me

551
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: the term, but it seems to me like, you know,

552
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: parents that are hovering or helicopter parents, or where they're

553
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: trying to micro manage every fucking moment of the kid's

554
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: day so that the kid doesn't ever fall down, or

555
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: ever get their feelings hurt, or ever have a bad experience,

556
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: or ever have to deal with any kind of challenge

557
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: or surely that's a developmental roadblock or speed hunt for

558
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: the kid, because surely we need to Like, I went

559
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: through a fair bit of shit when I was a kid,

560
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 1: not horrible, but uncomfortable enough, and I think for the

561
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: most part it helped me build understanding and awareness and

562
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 1: resilience and problem solve in real time and how to

563
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: avoid shit and how to connect with people. And like,

564
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: I think, obviously there's you know, it's dose dependent and

565
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: it's context dependent, But what about that how do we

566
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: know how much to protect and how much to kind

567
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: of get the fuck out of the way.

568
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: Is there an exact science to that though, when you

569
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 2: think about it, how subjective is that you know? And

570
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: that's to be honest, that's a difficulty, and that's only

571
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 2: something that you know. This is something that we need

572
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: to continuously work on, and I will always be working

573
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: on this. Right Where is that kind of balance between

574
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: the giving the support but knowing when to back away,

575
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: knowing when to step in? And I think a lot

576
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 2: of the time we live in a society where we

577
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 2: can be I think too centered around that where it's

578
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: like you've got mums staying at home and they think

579
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 2: they need to be present twenty four seven, and then

580
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: they're not, and then they feel guilty and they're trying to,

581
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: like you said, micro manage their children's experiences versus kind

582
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: of taking a step back and going, how do I not,

583
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 2: you know, send my three year old outside and shut

584
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: the door, but how do I create safe spaces where

585
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: like there's daycare centers and things like that where my

586
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 2: child can be there for a little bit and have

587
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: somebody else be able to you know, they're seeing other

588
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: kids you know, test things and little risky kind of

589
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: fun climbing, you know, frames or whatever, and I'm backing

590
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: away and I'm doing my own thing, and then I

591
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 2: come back with them, and then they get the experience

592
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 2: of me and they come together with me. So I think,

593
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: I think the question isn't so much of you know,

594
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 2: what is this exact science, but kind of going how

595
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 2: do I notice when I'm actually getting anxious about it?

596
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: Right?

597
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: And how do I step back? But then also how

598
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: do I kind of be there emotionally and create space

599
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: and intention for that? And that's what I love about play,

600
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: especially when you say therapeutically, it is designed for kids

601
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 2: to feel seen and valued and heard and loved, and

602
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 2: it's specific skills around that. But then outside that you

603
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 2: can kind of really back off a bit because you

604
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 2: know you've got that intention. So what you were saying

605
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 2: around the gym situation, I specifically use those play therapy

606
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: tools that we teach parents with my kids when they

607
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: were younger, and I go, okay, so if I'm going

608
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: to you know, section off this time and there to

609
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 2: do that, I can really back off the other times

610
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 2: and I can actually focus on my workout and not

611
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: feel guilty or for it all feel guilty, but do

612
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: the workout anyway, and I can focus on cleaning the

613
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: house and I can focus on just reading and relaxing

614
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: because I've got this potent, condensed time where I'm going

615
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: to be emotionally available with my child and I'm actually

616
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 2: going to be present, And I find that to be

617
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: so much more effective than when I was trying to

618
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: do it all all day, Like it just doesn't work.

619
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 2: We kind of give a deluded self to everything, don't

620
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 2: weigh when we try and multitask like that. So yeah,

621
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 2: I think to sum it up, I think it's us

622
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 2: being conscious of it and then us putting things in

623
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: place where we get the balance for the kids and

624
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 2: for us right where they've got other spaces, they've got

625
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: different experiences and we don't feel the need to micromanage

626
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: every single part of their life. And for everything that

627
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 2: we think it's taking away from its giving every time

628
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 2: away from us. Isn't. They're not losing out. If anything,

629
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: they're gaining what it's like to feel safe and be

630
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 2: guided by another adult. And that's really great to them

631
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: because we're not their whole world. Unfortunately. I mean, I

632
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: would very much love to be, but the reality is

633
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,239
Speaker 2: they're going to go and they're going to live their

634
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: lives away from us, and they need to be able

635
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: to learn to trust other adults and spaces and themselves too.

636
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: And I think also they need to be able to

637
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: turn up to kinder or school or whatever and meet

638
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: other kids and have conversations and interactions and learn how

639
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: to fall down and get back up, either literally or metaphorically,

640
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: and learn how to build trust and rapport even though

641
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: they don't know what they're doing. But over time, you

642
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: know where kids just start to figure it out. And

643
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,719
Speaker 1: you know, like kids need to be given opportunities to

644
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: solve problems without being told what to do, so they

645
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: can use their creativity and their critical thinking and develop

646
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: problem solving skills and interact with, as you said, with

647
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: different people. And you know, when they're teenagers and well before,

648
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: but as they get older, they're going to interact with

649
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: people who are really nice and people who are not

650
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: so nice, and people who really care about them, and

651
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: people who don't really care about them, and people who

652
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: they might need to be a bit wary around, and

653
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: people that they can completely trust. Because this is the

654
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: practical reality of humans, you know, So if like I

655
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: I a friend, do I say it?

656
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 2: Oh?

657
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: God, doesn't matter. No one knows what I'm talking about.

658
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: But somebody I know, really I think just and love

659
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: their kid, but just that kid was wrapped in cotton

660
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: wool to they went till they went to university, so

661
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: you know, mom and dad onther thing, and then just

662
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: very little freedom, very controlled, very strict, very you know,

663
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: and no nothing, not a quarter of a glass of

664
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: beer and not. Then from that to oh, now you're

665
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: an adult, you've got a license, you can drink, you

666
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: can vote, And the first two years were just fucking

667
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,239
Speaker 1: mayhem bad Yeah, because it's like, well, they never and

668
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: it was like somebody had just let a lion out

669
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: of a cage and trying to control that eighteen to

670
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: twenty year old. It's like, I, you know, I didn't

671
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: say it, but I'm like, yeah, you kind of did

672
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: this to yourself because you never let that kid do anything.

673
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: And now that one they don't live at home, right,

674
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: they moved.

675
00:33:54,680 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 2: Out, And I think about why that actually had and

676
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: I feel like it's the stories that we attached to

677
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: a lot of moms, you know, when they make their

678
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 2: child their whole identity. It's like, well, my child doing

679
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 2: well is me doing well, and my child solving problems

680
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: from the get go is me doing well. And so

681
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 2: they almost like micromanage so that there's just really good

682
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 2: results from the get go because it makes them feel

683
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 2: the sense of competency. But like you said, what ends

684
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 2: up happening is they don't get the necessary learnings from

685
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 2: actually experience and failing and trying again and problem solving

686
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: that they need, and so when they're actually left to

687
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 2: their own devices, they're like, I don't know how to

688
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 2: be because you know, my parents just kind of created

689
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 2: this perfect existence for me so that they could feel

690
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 2: really great. And I noticed that honestly with a lot

691
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 2: of mums where they talk about, you know, traveling and

692
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 2: you know, working and living this really balanced, full life,

693
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 2: and they're like, but then I can parent and I've

694
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: just got my child, and I feel anxious leaving them

695
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: for an hour and this is all I do now.

696
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 2: It's almost like they've regressed because of that anxiety, and

697
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 2: then they put all that energy just into their kid

698
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 2: and they're like, this just has to be perfect. And

699
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: so I feel like what actually helps us create that

700
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: in our children is us doing that first. So the

701
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 2: more experiences I give myself off problem solving and living

702
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 2: life and living a full life, and you know, creating

703
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 2: space to fill my needs is actually what supports me

704
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 2: to do that for my child, right, Because you think

705
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 2: about it, we shut down our life. What else do

706
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: we have to focus on If we're not getting emotional

707
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: input from other places that support us, we're just expecting

708
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 2: that from us. We're giving it all to our child,

709
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: but then we're expecting it back for our child. We're

710
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 2: kind of saying you need to be here to fulfill me,

711
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: really without directly saying it, because I've got nothing else

712
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 2: that's fulfilling me at the moment. I've shut down everything

713
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 2: of my life. That's not fair on parents, and it's

714
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 2: not fair on kids either. It's a huge bed.

715
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: And I would absolutely think that there would be people

716
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: that would think that, would judge you poorly for going

717
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: a way three weeks.

718
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 2: Oh one hundred percent. I would judge myself poorly for

719
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: doing that. If you had asked me before I became

720
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: a pair, I would be the worst critic on that.

721
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 2: And what's interesting is the people what I found, right

722
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 2: is we can either sit there and judge, or we

723
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: can look at it from an experimental point of view

724
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 2: and really taking an honest look. If if you're a parent

725
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: and you're judging that right, taking an honest look, do

726
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 2: you actually enjoy holidays with your child? And do you

727
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 2: actually enjoy holidays with yourself? Like how did holidays feel?

728
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 2: Because if we were to take an honest look about that,

729
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 2: a lot of moms say to me, I went on

730
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: a holiday and I come back even feeling more exhausted.

731
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 2: And the only thing that's stopping them from having a

732
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 2: holiday by themselves is because they feel guilty. Not because

733
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: they wouldn't have fun, not because it wouldn't recharge them,

734
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 2: not because they can't financially, you know, find the resources

735
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 2: and the support for that. It's because the story that

736
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: they attached to it. And imagine if we create another

737
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 2: story where we're going on a holiday and we're going

738
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,439
Speaker 2: to come back, you know, with experiences and a sense

739
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 2: of fulfillment, that actually is going to benefit our child

740
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 2: and our child gets this opportunity to bond with someone

741
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 2: other than us, and then we're going to have this

742
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 2: with our child. Like I think it's the stories attached

743
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 2: to the judgments and our perception of it. And I

744
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: see that. I see that in ways of the people

745
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: who do create this space and how they viewed it

746
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 2: versus people who don't. But I think what was a

747
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 2: real game changer for me is just experiencing it. I

748
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 2: challenge any kind of parent, just just experience it, even

749
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: if it was one night, two days. And once that

750
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: initial anxiety goes down, when you start to experience what

751
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 2: it's like to sit with yourself and how much you

752
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 2: learn about yourself and the thinking and the clarity that

753
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: you get from that, that's all kind of the proof

754
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 2: that you need to keep going in that direction.

755
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 3: Right.

756
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: So interesting, like I've talked about this, at this moment,

757
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: you don't know this, right, so I'll try not to

758
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: drag it on. But so years and years ago, a

759
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: lot of years ago, I had all these businesses, right,

760
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: I had bricks and mortar businesses at over one hundred staff,

761
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: and it was just my life was busy. I would

762
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: just literally drive from one I had three gyms and

763
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: two other kind of health related businesses, and I would

764
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: just drive from one to the other, or I would

765
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: stay at one half day. And I had a lot

766
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 1: of moving parts, lots of staff, lots of bills, lots

767
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 1: of problems to solve, just lots of shit to do right,

768
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: which was and I was very grateful for it. But

769
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: my life was from when I got out of bed

770
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: to when I went to bed basically work and about work.

771
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: And in the middle of all of this, and all

772
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: of my businesses were going somewhere between okay and really good.

773
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: So I was very blessed, very lucky, very grateful, Like

774
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: there was no I didn't take it for granted. But

775
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 1: in the middle of all of this stuff, Sam, I

776
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: wasn't particularly happy, and I'm like, why the fuck am

777
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: I not happy? You know, like, you do not have

778
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: any reason to be unhappy, So get your shit together.

779
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: And it's so funny you talk to yourself like that.

780
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: It doesn't It's like, well, you just feel what you feel, bro.

781
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: You're You're not trying to be sad, You're not trying

782
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 1: to be depressed, You're not trying to be anxious. And

783
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: I couldn't anyway I was. I felt like I was

784
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: heading towards a bit of a meltdown, and I can't

785
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: remember exactly what precipitated it, but I went one day,

786
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: I went into one of my gym's my main gym,

787
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: which was a great, big that was kind of the

788
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: epicenter of my businesses, ten thousand square foot, the biggest

789
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 1: personal training center in the Southern hemisphere. Like people everywhere,

790
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,439
Speaker 1: trainers everywhere, clients everywhere, you know. And I went into

791
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: my then pa or center manager. I said to her,

792
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: I'm going to go away for ten days, right. I

793
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: just made this snap decision, which I never did. I

794
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: would not go away for a day. I'd feel bad, guilty, conflicted.

795
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: And I went away for ten days just to be

796
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 1: with myself and try to figure out what was going on,

797
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: Like why I'm fit, I'm healthy, I'm making good money,

798
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: my businesses are successful. I'm not a moron, I'm not

799
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: a genius, but I'm not like this so much good.

800
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: But in the middle of all of the good, I

801
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: didn't feel good right, and I wanted to understand that.

802
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: So I went away and I spent ten days by myself.

803
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: I didn't talk to anyone other than maybe to order

804
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: a coffee, but I didn't have a conversation with anyone.

805
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 1: I didn't talk to anyone in any of my businesses,

806
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: didn't talk to my staff. She had my PI had

807
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: one directive, and that is I didn't even have a

808
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: cell phone or mobile phone. She knew where I was staying,

809
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,479
Speaker 1: she knew where I was staying, what room, and I said,

810
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 1: don't call me unless like it's a fucking emergency, right,

811
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: So she didn't call me. And for about the first

812
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: two or three days, I felt absolutely worse, like worse.

813
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: I just wanted to come back, and I was lonely,

814
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: and I was I fucking cried. I was I had

815
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: all this, all this shit right. And it took me

816
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: about four or five days to try and I was

817
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: trying to understand me. I was trying to figure out

818
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: what do I want to do with the rest of

819
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: my life? Is what I'm doing? My purpose and all

820
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: of these deep and meaningful questions. But it really took

821
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: me to get away from the thing physically and emotionally

822
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: and geographically and psychologically. I needed to get away to

823
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: get a level of perspective and insight and understanding where

824
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: I could think clearly. Like when I was in the

825
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: middle of it, I couldn't really see it. I needed

826
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: to be away from it. And yeah, I think sometimes

827
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: when you are just in this continuum of operating system

828
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: and get up, do this, do all this shit on autopilot,

829
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: get it up, get up against myrow, do it all again.

830
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: And basically that's the last three thousand days of your life.

831
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: You really do need to kind of get away from

832
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: your own life a bit, if you know what I mean,

833
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: to figure the fuck out what's going on.

834
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that that you went through that, because

835
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: exactly what it feels like.

836
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 3: Right.

837
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 2: Often it's just that resistance when you first do it,

838
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 2: and then you go through all those fields and then

839
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 2: you come away with being able to think clearly. And

840
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 2: I think we underestimate how powerful our ability is to

841
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: think clearly, and then how much that will actually benefit

842
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 2: when we go back into our life and we make

843
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 2: the necessary changes or shifts that we want to make.

844
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 2: So it's kind of life giving to kids, not necessarily

845
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: taking away. And if we're able to shift in that,

846
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: I think that's more powerful than just trying to like

847
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: squish and support, like someone tell me the right thing

848
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: to do. It's almost like I probably do know what

849
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 2: the right thing to do is for my life. I

850
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 2: just need space away from it, or I can stop

851
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 2: off that hamster wheel and take a break and take

852
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 2: a breath. And then gain some perspective. So yeah, I

853
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: think it's how we frame it, right, and if we

854
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 2: know that that is actually a way that we can

855
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 2: kind of recharge and reset almost, we would do it

856
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,280
Speaker 2: more often in little ways, and we would hopefully model

857
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 2: this for kids that when they become adults and parents,

858
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 2: that they don't feel that heavy guilt that we do

859
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 2: in this generation because we haven't had that model to us,

860
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 2: and if anything, that they will ye be able to

861
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 2: do that more in their lives.

862
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 1: All right, So I have one question that I want

863
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: to finish with, and I'm being completely honest with you

864
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: and the listeners. This is a real question about a

865
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: real person. Obviously, I can't mention, I can't give any

866
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: details other than the like, you know, boy girl age,

867
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: da da da, but this so I'll just say that

868
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: this is somebody friend of mine. Friends of mine have

869
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:37,479
Speaker 1: got a child that like great kid, by the way,

870
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: but just for a range of reasons fear, anxiety, stuff,

871
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: really doesn't want to kind of wants to go to school,

872
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: but freaks out now like something happened. And I'll just

873
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: tell you they're around twelve, right, and there's just a

874
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: So it's been a real struggle for them two you

875
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: know like that that I guess that balancing act of

876
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: you know, being loving and sportive an understanding. But they don't,

877
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: you know, they don't want their child to spend the

878
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: next four years at home, right, yeah, any like I

879
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't need a solution, but any thoughts

880
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 1: around that or any ideas or help around that?

881
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 2: Is that primary school or high school where.

882
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 1: You're just starting high school? I think?

883
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what has the child said about their reasons

884
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 2: for not wanting to go?

885
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: I think I I just think they had an experience

886
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: that wasn't great, and so now they're looking at a

887
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 1: new school, is my understanding. And yeah, there's there's a

888
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: lot maybe because of past experiences. You know, there's just

889
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: a lot of fear and apprehension, like a lot, like

890
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: whole lot, like this kid does not want to go

891
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: to school.

892
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think when we look at anxiety, right,

893
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 2: we often idea fault response is avoidance. It's like it

894
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 2: just feels too much and I can't handle it. I

895
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 2: need to avoid it, and that's what strengthens the anxiety.

896
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 2: And so I think about it as often as parents,

897
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 2: You know, you want to get rid of the anxiety,

898
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: and you're trying to target that and convince them otherwise

899
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 2: rather than allowing space for it and letting them process

900
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 2: it and kind of it, you know, being able to

901
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 2: just slowly get better. And I think the best way

902
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 2: that we can do that is that kind of connection

903
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 2: as well, and that acknowledgment around it. But with those

904
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 2: boundaries of kind of going, okay, we can't really control

905
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 2: other kids at school, right, we can control what we do.

906
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: It's like that locus of control. And so in the

907
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: morning's right, especially with that age, you know, what you

908
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,720
Speaker 2: want to eat? You know, here are some options for breakfast,

909
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: Let's do that. Do you want to do something in

910
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 2: the morning together? How do you want this morning to

911
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 2: routine to look like? We can work on that. You

912
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 2: have to go to school. It's kind of you know,

913
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 2: non negotiable. Here, what's your plan? You know, you can

914
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 2: even talk through plans, right if they're worried about that,

915
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,439
Speaker 2: you know that sounds really tough that you were sitting

916
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 2: by yourself. What did you do, like, you know, kind

917
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: of helping them with that problem solving what are your options?

918
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 2: But being able to sit with how that feels. We're

919
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 2: not trying to talk the matterfit. Often we think, yeah,

920
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 2: but you know, we like Q and it doesn't really matter.

921
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:14,479
Speaker 2: No one likes you. You kind of want to reframe straight

922
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 2: away without going wow, that would really star like sitting alone,

923
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 2: that would feel pretty lonely. And then again after school,

924
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 2: right being able to engage them and stuff that they love,

925
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: because no one wants to go to school. I mean

926
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 2: a lot of people don't want to go to school

927
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 2: as teenagers. Don't know, I didn't you know, interested in

928
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: these generic subjects. But every child has a thing, a

929
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: thing that they really good at, a thing that they love.

930
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 2: Is it gaming, even, is it sports? Is it whatever

931
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 2: that is? And the more opportunities that you can kind

932
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: of make for things that they love cut filling again

933
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 2: after school and then that connection that they have with

934
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 2: you as well a bit later on in their evening

935
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 2: and helps ground them. So I think if it as

936
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 2: a you know, the anxious, but it's so draining, it's

937
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 2: draining their cut being, you know, doing stuff that they

938
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 2: don't like and that they're worried about and they're fearful off.

939
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: So how can we actually add stuff back in the

940
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 2: cup and so grounding them in what they can control

941
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: around that after school, before school, and then yeah, setting

942
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 2: that non negotiable boundary that you know, school's happening, but

943
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: being able to focus on what they can control, I

944
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 2: think gives them the power back.

945
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: Is this happening more than it seems like this is

946
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: a thing now. I'm sure it's always been a bit

947
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: of a thing, but it seems like it's a bigger

948
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: thing now as kids not wanting to go to school,

949
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: like actually physically be out of school.

950
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 2: Oh and it's so hard because what we're trying to

951
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 2: do right wh're managing anxiety is like we're trying to

952
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 2: create these adaptations for them and going, okay, like this

953
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 2: environment's not suited to them, how do we, you know,

954
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 2: make it more suited And maybe it's not the right

955
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 2: fit for them. But at the same time, then we

956
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 2: sometimes go on that way completely where we're actually helping

957
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 2: them avoid the situation, and that doesn't help anxiety. It

958
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 2: makes it grow. And so then we're not putting in

959
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 2: potentially the boundaries or letting them be in challenging situations

960
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 2: and sitting with the anxiety but working through it. Like

961
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 2: we're all really confused because there is no line and

962
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 2: going how much do we adapt to this and create

963
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 2: different alternatives for the child, and actually how much do

964
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: we oh let them push through it because we know

965
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 2: that on the other side of that, they're gaining more

966
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 2: confidence in managing our anxiety. And there's definitely no one

967
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 2: rule for this and one answer for this, but I

968
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: think it's really important as key gives that we're constantly

969
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 2: checking up on our anxiety and what story that we're

970
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 2: creating around that as well, because we can really feed

971
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 2: into it because our anxiety will naturally put our anxiety

972
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 2: through the roof too.

973
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: So one of the I wrote something before that I

974
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 1: haven't posted yet. You know, I'm always writing crap for

975
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: social media, but just I love it. I I just

976
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: thought about this right now because I think it. I

977
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: think it ties in a bit, and I wrote, So

978
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: it's called certainty addiction. And there's just ten dot points.

979
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:53,919
Speaker 1: One humans hate uncertainty. Two Interestingly, life is uncertainty. Three

980
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: much of life is beyond our control. Four the need

981
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: for certainty is a problem. Five it's a self created

982
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 1: emotional prison. Six Pursuing certainty is fear driven. Seven Preparing

983
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:12,720
Speaker 1: for uncertainty is smart. Eight it's a practical approach to survival. Nine.

984
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 1: The answer is not an easier life. Ten, it's a

985
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: more resilient and adaptable you.

986
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 2: Definitely. I think with all of us, our difficulties in

987
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 2: handling unsandy creates so much problems because we are often

988
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 2: driven to gain certainty by actually making things worse for

989
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 2: us and long run but easy in the short run

990
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: just to avoid right, So we'd often take it's almost

991
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 2: like going for the bigger goal, right, and there's a

992
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 2: little goal, and you're like, I'll just do the little

993
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 2: goal because I know that I can get that, versus like,

994
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 2: do I actually go all in on this bigger goal

995
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 2: and it may be uncert you know, I may not

996
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 2: get it. I'm not sure. We're not really willing to

997
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 2: back ourselves with those things, and we're willing to then

998
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 2: settle for below mediocre, you know, or something that doesn't

999
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: really yeah, benefit us in the long run because we're

1000
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 2: so scared. It's kind of like white people staying jobs

1001
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,439
Speaker 2: for X amount of a year twenty years plus, right,

1002
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 2: they're too scared of that unsandy that comes with what

1003
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 2: if I try another job and it doesn't work out

1004
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,439
Speaker 2: and I don't know it. They don't realize they don't

1005
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 2: really believe in their ability to adapt or to change.

1006
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 2: You know, we can make another decision elsewhere, we can

1007
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 2: you know, navigate that well.

1008
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: I think it's like that with personal relationships too. Sometimes

1009
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: people associate more danger or more risk with getting out

1010
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: of a relationship than staying. Okay, the relationships are two

1011
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: out of ten and it's kind of shitty, but a

1012
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: two out of ten is better than no relationship. So

1013
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: I'll stay in it and maybe it will somehow get better, right.

1014
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 2: Hundreds of Yeah, there's some people do and they're like,

1015
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 2: at least I know I've got somebody. What if I

1016
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 2: break up this relationship and I never find someone? And

1017
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 2: you're right, But if you hear anyone with an amazing

1018
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 2: or job that they love, or relationship that they love,

1019
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 2: or life that they love, they're going to tell you

1020
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 2: they had to sit an unsanity. They had to kind

1021
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 2: of bann down whatever bridges or life that they had

1022
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 2: in the past to be able to go and search

1023
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 2: off something else. And so when we know that that's

1024
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 2: a necessary part of the growth, we want to create

1025
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 2: those opportunities for kids where they are sitting with uncani Do.

1026
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: You know what I think is interesting. This just might

1027
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: take for what it's worth. I feel like when you

1028
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 1: really need someone, it's harder. Like that is not a

1029
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 1: good emotional or psychological place to be. Is like without

1030
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 1: being disrespectful, but that you know, you see it sometimes

1031
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:36,399
Speaker 1: in people like that desperation to have a partner. But Bro,

1032
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: like someone I spoke to recently, I'm like, Bro, that

1033
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 1: whole desperate thing you've got going on. God bless you.

1034
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a cuddle, but fuck, you've

1035
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: got to lose that because the ladies that you're chasing,

1036
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: they don't want desperation as the starting point. That It's

1037
00:51:55,560 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: almost like without trying to pre but like the moment

1038
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: you don't need it, you become more attractive because you

1039
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: got more content. It's like if I find someone great,

1040
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: if I don't also great, it's good. My life is good.

1041
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 1: I'm good and I'm not you know that whole he

1042
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: or she completes me. No, you're already complete. You're not

1043
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: half of something. You know. They might they might compliment you,

1044
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: but they can't complete you because you are not incomplete.

1045
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 4: Oh.

1046
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 2: I think this is huge and I think a lot

1047
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 2: of people relate to that. Right where they approach these

1048
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 2: relationships with I need this to fulfill me, right, Like

1049
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 2: I'm a half person and I want to have another

1050
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 2: half person will join together. And then it becomes a

1051
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 2: not I want you, it's I need you. I can't

1052
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 2: survive without you. And that's the unhealthy codependency kind of thing.

1053
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 2: And like you said, it becomes way more attractive when

1054
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 2: you become a whole person. You're like, it's either a

1055
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 2: healthy relationship or nothing at all. Like I'm not going

1056
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 2: to settle for you know, something that's going to be

1057
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 2: damaging to my mental health or there's and then you

1058
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 2: come with that confidence and someone you're going to meet

1059
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 2: someone with that Also, I'm a whole person and I'm

1060
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 2: not going to settle for something either you know, it's

1061
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 2: going to be I'm all in or nothing at all.

1062
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 2: And I think that that is the ultimate kind of

1063
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,720
Speaker 2: goal when you think about it, to hold people coming

1064
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:14,720
Speaker 2: together and you know, I guess just magnifying the greatness

1065
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 2: rather than yeah, being like I need it.

1066
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 1: It's funny I reckon when I was in my twenties

1067
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: and like I was like on the same track as

1068
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: many people, not all people, but like I'm going to

1069
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: find someone, I'll get married, I'll have kids, you know,

1070
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: And I was probably you know, I don't think I

1071
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: was repulsive, right, but it was probably evident that I wanted,

1072
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: you know, And so it's kind of normal you go

1073
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: out with people. And so by the time I was,

1074
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, thirty two or three, so that's fifteen

1075
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,280
Speaker 1: years of dating and whatever. It was eighteen or seventeen

1076
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: or sixteen when I started, but you know, kind of

1077
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: serious ish dating as an adult. And then I could

1078
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 1: just got to a point where I went not not

1079
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: fuck relationships or fuck not not that just like, ah,

1080
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: I'm good, Like I'm good, I'm good. I'm like, I'm okay.

1081
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 1: You want me? Yeah, No, it's not and it's not

1082
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm not going there the problem or I'm the problem.

1083
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 1: I'm just going it is what it is. Yeah, I'm

1084
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,319
Speaker 1: not looking anymore. I'm good. I'm going to you know.

1085
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 1: But it's funny the moment that I just that was

1086
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: my attitude. I didn't, you know, like I got more

1087
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: attention than when I wanted attention.

1088
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 2: Definitely, Like you said, it's all the energy, right, the

1089
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 2: energy of I think trying to chase that. You're right,

1090
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 2: it would kind of push people away, but that kind

1091
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 2: of confidence that comes from I'm actually yeah, I feel

1092
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 2: really whole and content with what I've got, and I'm

1093
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 2: really at peace with my own life and who I

1094
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 2: am and what I bring to the table. And I'm

1095
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 2: not going to negotiate my values for anyone. That comes

1096
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 2: as a whole different level of confidence, and I think

1097
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 2: it will attract someone that also has that as well,

1098
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 2: which is what you want.

1099
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well, so good talking to you. I'm glad

1100
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 1: you're back. I'm glad you had fun, even though clearly

1101
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: you're negligent. Mother, I'm just gagging. Tell people how they

1102
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: can connect with you and follow you and all that stuff.

1103
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 2: Yep, they can connect with me on Instagram or on

1104
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 2: my which is doctor Samcasey, on my website which is

1105
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 2: www dot dotor Samcasey dot com.

1106
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: Giddeup, Buttercup, Well, we appreciate you. I'm so glad you're

1107
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 1: back on board for twenty twenty six. Thank you for

1108
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: what you did last year. Thank you for being so

1109
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: generous with your knowledge and your time and your energy,

1110
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 1: and I hope you have a great year.

1111
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:35,879
Speaker 2: Great thanks you too.

1112
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 1: Giddy up.