1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,801 Speaker 1: Apoche production. 2 00:00:11,561 --> 00:00:14,161 Speaker 2: On a sunny Saturday at the football in Adelaide in 3 00:00:14,241 --> 00:00:15,641 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three and. 4 00:00:16,041 --> 00:00:18,041 Speaker 3: The rover will put it forward from Santa Wing towards 5 00:00:18,041 --> 00:00:19,281 Speaker 3: Santa harf Ford Hobby in the front. 6 00:00:19,361 --> 00:00:22,281 Speaker 4: One couldn't pull it down. Knocked on intelligently by sorl Format. 7 00:00:23,121 --> 00:00:25,841 Speaker 2: Eleven year old Joanne Ratcliffe took her four year old 8 00:00:25,881 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 2: friend Kirsty Gordon to the toilet. They were never seen again. 9 00:00:37,801 --> 00:00:41,201 Speaker 2: Fifty three years later, joe ane sister Susie is still 10 00:00:41,241 --> 00:00:42,601 Speaker 2: searching well. 11 00:00:42,601 --> 00:00:44,681 Speaker 3: Of all the baffling crimes that have been committed in 12 00:00:44,681 --> 00:00:47,801 Speaker 3: this city, few are more heartbreaking than the disappearance of 13 00:00:47,881 --> 00:00:49,801 Speaker 3: Kirsty Gordon and Joan Ratcliffe. 14 00:00:49,801 --> 00:00:53,681 Speaker 5: But not having I bought it to bury and to 15 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 5: actually grieve for her. 16 00:00:56,081 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: Probably there are theories that were. 17 00:01:04,121 --> 00:01:06,561 Speaker 6: Seen in the cop of a man wearing a check 18 00:01:06,641 --> 00:01:10,321 Speaker 6: coat and a brimmed hat leading them from the ground, 19 00:01:11,041 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 6: never to be seen again. 20 00:01:12,721 --> 00:01:13,681 Speaker 1: It was a crime that. 21 00:01:15,441 --> 00:01:20,801 Speaker 6: One that'd think was a part of child abuse type 22 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 6: of thing, you know, So do you think there could 23 00:01:23,401 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 6: be a link between what pedophilia and the battle? 24 00:01:25,801 --> 00:01:29,121 Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely no doubt about their suspects. 25 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,321 Speaker 7: He should probably be in a mental institution to tell 26 00:01:32,321 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 7: you the truth rather than imprison. 27 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,721 Speaker 5: The gentleman that was dressed in women's clothing was sort 28 00:01:38,721 --> 00:01:43,641 Speaker 5: of loitering around where the ladies toilets were rumors. 29 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,481 Speaker 7: It's childhood and how do you access that while you're 30 00:01:46,521 --> 00:01:50,161 Speaker 7: in prisons. And he was put on that property by government. 31 00:01:50,721 --> 00:01:53,361 Speaker 7: He was sent out to there to get him away 32 00:01:53,361 --> 00:01:56,681 Speaker 7: from Adelaide because he was molesting too many children. 33 00:01:56,841 --> 00:01:58,361 Speaker 1: And possible cover ups. 34 00:01:58,881 --> 00:02:04,081 Speaker 7: If you've got a pedophile ring that's catering for the 35 00:02:04,561 --> 00:02:08,081 Speaker 7: high high end of society, you'd probably want to protect 36 00:02:08,081 --> 00:02:09,841 Speaker 7: that bit of borring. 37 00:02:11,361 --> 00:02:14,841 Speaker 2: What happened to Joe Anne and Kirsty and. 38 00:02:14,881 --> 00:02:18,761 Speaker 5: I just appeal to those outdo that may have close answers, 39 00:02:19,001 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 5: please find it within your heart during crime stoppers put 40 00:02:24,841 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 5: an end to our pain. 41 00:02:28,281 --> 00:02:29,001 Speaker 1: Thank you, Susie. 42 00:02:33,081 --> 00:02:36,161 Speaker 2: Susie Ratcliffe has gone through years of torment not knowing 43 00:02:36,201 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: what happened to her sister Joanne in nineteen seventy three, 44 00:02:40,081 --> 00:02:45,121 Speaker 2: a sister she never actually met. As part of her journey, 45 00:02:45,281 --> 00:02:48,841 Speaker 2: Susie began a charity called Leave the Light On, whose 46 00:02:48,881 --> 00:02:51,601 Speaker 2: aim is to help families of long term missing persons. 47 00:02:52,841 --> 00:02:55,641 Speaker 2: Susie believes that a missing person not only affects the 48 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: immediate family, but it's generational and can affect the futures 49 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:05,841 Speaker 2: of family members. Susie inherited these qualities from dad and 50 00:03:05,881 --> 00:03:10,001 Speaker 2: a mum in their search for her sister. Mark Marshall 51 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:16,601 Speaker 2: inherited qualities from his family, terrible, despicable qualities. Mark's grandfather 52 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,401 Speaker 2: was a pedophile, Mark's dad was a pedophile, and Mark 53 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,841 Speaker 2: is a pedophile. Mark Marshall wrote a type of confession 54 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,761 Speaker 2: letter while in jail a few years back. He also 55 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,001 Speaker 2: appeared in a Royal commission and made the same claims. 56 00:03:30,761 --> 00:03:33,401 Speaker 2: Susie has a copy of both his letter and his 57 00:03:33,481 --> 00:03:36,881 Speaker 2: appearance in the Royal Commission and she's given them to us. 58 00:03:38,521 --> 00:03:41,481 Speaker 2: We also have copies of his police file. They include 59 00:03:41,481 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: break and enter, exposing himself to a child, possessing child pornography, 60 00:03:46,241 --> 00:03:50,001 Speaker 2: austraining orders and decent assaults, and a list of other charges. 61 00:03:50,801 --> 00:03:53,921 Speaker 2: Mark Marshall has issues that date a long way back. 62 00:03:55,521 --> 00:03:59,881 Speaker 5: I think it stems from own child abuse and sexual 63 00:03:59,921 --> 00:04:04,721 Speaker 5: abuse when he was a little boy. And it's just 64 00:04:06,481 --> 00:04:09,481 Speaker 5: I mean something like that. How does it not affect 65 00:04:09,961 --> 00:04:17,601 Speaker 5: someone's mind? Police, Well, they don't. They haven't taken it 66 00:04:17,641 --> 00:04:20,481 Speaker 5: as gospel. His statement. A lot of it, they say 67 00:04:20,601 --> 00:04:25,161 Speaker 5: is just fantasy stuff that he's made up. But with 68 00:04:25,281 --> 00:04:29,281 Speaker 5: some of the details that he's claimed in that statement, 69 00:04:29,361 --> 00:04:33,121 Speaker 5: it just you can't make things like that up. It's 70 00:04:33,201 --> 00:04:36,241 Speaker 5: just yeah, And there are things that he's stated that 71 00:04:37,561 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 5: you do ring true with my family about jo Ane's 72 00:04:43,241 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 5: characteristics and what. 73 00:04:44,681 --> 00:04:45,161 Speaker 6: She was like. 74 00:04:47,801 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: I thought long and hard about including Mark Marshall's statement, 75 00:04:50,681 --> 00:04:54,361 Speaker 2: mainly because it's disturbing and sick. We've shared some of 76 00:04:54,401 --> 00:04:56,801 Speaker 2: the facts, but I think to fully understand what he 77 00:04:56,921 --> 00:05:00,041 Speaker 2: is and way came forward, they're important. 78 00:04:59,681 --> 00:05:00,601 Speaker 1: To share with you again. 79 00:05:01,561 --> 00:05:03,881 Speaker 2: The words you'll hear are the exact words that are 80 00:05:03,921 --> 00:05:07,241 Speaker 2: taken from Mark trevor Social statement for the Royal Commission 81 00:05:07,721 --> 00:05:10,561 Speaker 2: on the sixteenth of March two thousand and seven. The 82 00:05:10,641 --> 00:05:11,761 Speaker 2: voice snacked up. 83 00:05:14,481 --> 00:05:17,041 Speaker 3: I can remember one time being in nappies because I 84 00:05:17,081 --> 00:05:18,921 Speaker 3: remember Dad taking me nappy off. 85 00:05:19,601 --> 00:05:22,361 Speaker 4: I remember him not being rude and doing it like 86 00:05:22,601 --> 00:05:23,601 Speaker 4: I remember something. 87 00:05:24,121 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 3: I remember him laughing with Uncle Johnny one day because 88 00:05:27,201 --> 00:05:29,681 Speaker 3: Mom went to the shops and she said to change us. 89 00:05:29,721 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 3: And I was probably about bigger than one, but I 90 00:05:33,361 --> 00:05:36,041 Speaker 3: remember that Dad was chasing me around the backyard with 91 00:05:36,041 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 3: the hose because he didn't want to have to wipe 92 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,001 Speaker 3: my bum and he was trying to get Johnny to 93 00:05:40,041 --> 00:05:40,321 Speaker 3: do it. 94 00:05:41,241 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 4: Then one time he. 95 00:05:42,161 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 3: Laid me on the table when it was getting dark, 96 00:05:44,361 --> 00:05:46,361 Speaker 3: and it was sort of like dark in the kitchen, 97 00:05:46,801 --> 00:05:48,441 Speaker 3: darker than it is in the daytime. 98 00:05:48,921 --> 00:05:51,161 Speaker 4: And I remember Mum was in the laude room and 99 00:05:51,281 --> 00:05:52,401 Speaker 4: Dad wouldn't let Mom. 100 00:05:52,281 --> 00:05:55,121 Speaker 3: Open the door, and I could hear Mom saying Michael 101 00:05:55,361 --> 00:05:58,921 Speaker 3: or something, but Dad was I must have been crying. 102 00:05:59,401 --> 00:06:01,961 Speaker 3: Maybe that's why Mum was yelling, but oh, I can. 103 00:06:02,601 --> 00:06:05,801 Speaker 3: The main thing I remember was Dad was he had 104 00:06:05,841 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 3: the beer bottle, but it felt like it was banging 105 00:06:08,681 --> 00:06:11,281 Speaker 3: on my shoulder inside of me. Because they used to 106 00:06:11,361 --> 00:06:14,881 Speaker 3: give you tunnels, but my brother had already started doing 107 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,001 Speaker 3: that first. The tunnels was something they used to give you, 108 00:06:18,281 --> 00:06:19,681 Speaker 3: especially the girls. 109 00:06:19,361 --> 00:06:20,681 Speaker 4: But they gave me one. 110 00:06:21,241 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 3: Mum said something to me when I was little one 111 00:06:23,481 --> 00:06:27,041 Speaker 3: day about tunnels because I got very sick or something, 112 00:06:27,081 --> 00:06:30,361 Speaker 3: and she said something about my pooh going in my tummy. 113 00:06:30,401 --> 00:06:31,721 Speaker 4: And it must have been fixed up. 114 00:06:31,801 --> 00:06:35,081 Speaker 3: And I remember belting my brother because my brother tried 115 00:06:35,081 --> 00:06:36,161 Speaker 3: to give me another tunnel. 116 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,241 Speaker 2: This transcript is disturbing to read and hard to hear. 117 00:06:40,681 --> 00:06:43,841 Speaker 2: But as I mentioned in the earlier episode, it's critical 118 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,921 Speaker 2: to know what proof Bear had when he started investigating 119 00:06:46,961 --> 00:06:52,041 Speaker 2: Mark Marshall's statement. Mark Marshall's accounts are very detailed, and yes, 120 00:06:52,081 --> 00:06:54,721 Speaker 2: it might mean that in prison he had lots of 121 00:06:54,761 --> 00:06:58,681 Speaker 2: time to read articles and different reports of the girl's disappearance, 122 00:06:59,401 --> 00:07:01,721 Speaker 2: but it could also mean that he knows a lot 123 00:07:01,801 --> 00:07:04,601 Speaker 2: more and could help solve this mystery for Sussi and 124 00:07:04,641 --> 00:07:08,281 Speaker 2: a fan. In the next few pages of the transcript, 125 00:07:08,761 --> 00:07:12,201 Speaker 2: Mark goes on to detail to the commissioner the actual 126 00:07:12,241 --> 00:07:15,281 Speaker 2: process of tunneling and what his father and brother would 127 00:07:15,281 --> 00:07:15,601 Speaker 2: do to. 128 00:07:15,601 --> 00:07:16,641 Speaker 1: Him and others. 129 00:07:17,801 --> 00:07:20,441 Speaker 2: It's not necessary to go into that detail, suffice to 130 00:07:20,481 --> 00:07:25,241 Speaker 2: say that it is shocking and depraved. On page fifteen 131 00:07:25,281 --> 00:07:28,721 Speaker 2: of the transcript, the commissioner asked Mark Marshall about what 132 00:07:28,801 --> 00:07:31,001 Speaker 2: he knows about the girls at the Adelaide Oval. 133 00:07:32,561 --> 00:07:36,001 Speaker 3: Only about Joanne, that's all. And there was one time 134 00:07:36,081 --> 00:07:40,281 Speaker 3: a girl that was wearing white that came with her Joanne. Oh, 135 00:07:40,321 --> 00:07:43,001 Speaker 3: I didn't know. People have told me what her real 136 00:07:43,081 --> 00:07:45,841 Speaker 3: name is now her last name, but I didn't know. 137 00:07:46,081 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 3: I just knew her as Joanne. 138 00:07:47,281 --> 00:07:48,481 Speaker 1: Did you know her other names? 139 00:07:48,641 --> 00:07:49,761 Speaker 4: Radcliff or something. 140 00:07:49,801 --> 00:07:50,921 Speaker 1: Do you know what happened to her? 141 00:07:51,321 --> 00:07:53,801 Speaker 4: I know that we knowed her at football and that. 142 00:07:53,801 --> 00:07:56,841 Speaker 3: She was kind of poppers with us, and they told 143 00:07:56,881 --> 00:07:58,561 Speaker 3: me that they were going for my birthday. 144 00:07:58,721 --> 00:07:59,961 Speaker 1: Did you meet her at the football? 145 00:08:00,401 --> 00:08:03,041 Speaker 3: And we knowed her before the big football? But I 146 00:08:03,081 --> 00:08:05,041 Speaker 3: didn't know the other girl before the big football. 147 00:08:05,361 --> 00:08:06,641 Speaker 1: Do you know what her name is? 148 00:08:07,081 --> 00:08:08,481 Speaker 4: Something like Christie? 149 00:08:09,241 --> 00:08:11,601 Speaker 3: I think that I called her Christie, but yeah, it 150 00:08:11,641 --> 00:08:14,481 Speaker 3: was like Christie was young, yes, but a little bit 151 00:08:14,521 --> 00:08:15,001 Speaker 3: bigger than me. 152 00:08:15,241 --> 00:08:17,241 Speaker 1: Did you follow a particular team the. 153 00:08:17,081 --> 00:08:19,321 Speaker 4: Red and white? Dad's team was. 154 00:08:19,281 --> 00:08:21,321 Speaker 1: Red and white North Adelaide. 155 00:08:22,001 --> 00:08:25,401 Speaker 3: Yah Roosters and Joanne's team was different, which was that 156 00:08:25,401 --> 00:08:26,681 Speaker 3: that was like a blue team. 157 00:08:27,321 --> 00:08:28,361 Speaker 4: I think they had red. 158 00:08:28,601 --> 00:08:30,641 Speaker 1: Did you see Joanne at the big football? 159 00:08:31,041 --> 00:08:33,641 Speaker 4: Yes, but we know her from other footballs before that. 160 00:08:34,121 --> 00:08:36,161 Speaker 1: But did you see the big football when she was 161 00:08:36,161 --> 00:08:36,841 Speaker 1: with her family? 162 00:08:37,321 --> 00:08:37,481 Speaker 3: Oh? 163 00:08:37,521 --> 00:08:39,281 Speaker 4: I remember when I saw jo Anne? 164 00:08:39,441 --> 00:08:42,481 Speaker 3: Is that because usually Artie Caroline would be carrying me 165 00:08:42,681 --> 00:08:44,121 Speaker 3: or I'd be holding her hand. 166 00:08:44,361 --> 00:08:46,241 Speaker 1: So you were little, were you, yes? 167 00:08:46,361 --> 00:08:49,241 Speaker 4: And she would say she'd go, oh, We're going to. 168 00:08:49,241 --> 00:08:53,121 Speaker 3: Go and see Joanne because they used to Artie Caroline 169 00:08:53,121 --> 00:08:56,001 Speaker 3: would do rude things with Steven and get Joanne to 170 00:08:56,001 --> 00:08:57,161 Speaker 3: do rude things with me and. 171 00:08:57,201 --> 00:09:02,801 Speaker 1: The toilets have the football was that the big football at. 172 00:09:02,761 --> 00:09:04,761 Speaker 3: The big football, I had to be rude with another 173 00:09:04,841 --> 00:09:08,681 Speaker 3: girl who was wearing white. That's the one I called Christy. 174 00:09:08,961 --> 00:09:11,201 Speaker 3: I think I called it Christy. It was a name 175 00:09:11,401 --> 00:09:11,961 Speaker 3: like Christy. 176 00:09:12,161 --> 00:09:12,761 Speaker 1: And she was with. 177 00:09:13,361 --> 00:09:15,761 Speaker 3: Yes when we went to this shed thing it was, 178 00:09:16,361 --> 00:09:19,321 Speaker 3: I think it had either it was a sliding door 179 00:09:19,441 --> 00:09:22,561 Speaker 3: or a noisy door, because I remember and I remember 180 00:09:22,601 --> 00:09:25,121 Speaker 3: that it was when the door closed fully. It was 181 00:09:25,241 --> 00:09:28,121 Speaker 3: very dark in there, and I remember that first time 182 00:09:28,521 --> 00:09:30,481 Speaker 3: because me and the other girl were scared in there 183 00:09:30,481 --> 00:09:32,881 Speaker 3: and we wanted the door open. And I remember the 184 00:09:32,921 --> 00:09:34,801 Speaker 3: second time we went in there that the girl was 185 00:09:34,841 --> 00:09:37,801 Speaker 3: telling me not to be scared because I started panicking 186 00:09:37,801 --> 00:09:40,081 Speaker 3: in the dark because I never used to like the dark. 187 00:09:40,801 --> 00:09:42,961 Speaker 3: Then after a little while, you can see a little bit. 188 00:09:43,801 --> 00:09:46,761 Speaker 3: It was scary at first, but they were saying, can 189 00:09:46,801 --> 00:09:47,241 Speaker 3: you see me? 190 00:09:47,321 --> 00:09:49,641 Speaker 4: Now? Can you see me? And they were like waving 191 00:09:49,681 --> 00:09:51,321 Speaker 4: their hands so I wouldn't be scared. 192 00:09:52,201 --> 00:09:53,321 Speaker 1: And then you left the oval. 193 00:09:53,441 --> 00:09:54,721 Speaker 4: Yes, we got in the van. 194 00:09:55,041 --> 00:09:55,881 Speaker 1: Who was with you? 195 00:09:56,001 --> 00:09:59,241 Speaker 3: Me, Mum, Steven and Jackie went with Mum to the van. 196 00:09:59,761 --> 00:10:02,281 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I had to because I remember being 197 00:10:02,321 --> 00:10:04,761 Speaker 3: mad at Mum because I had like a poncho which 198 00:10:04,801 --> 00:10:07,801 Speaker 3: is and white, and I remember Mum taking that off me, 199 00:10:08,241 --> 00:10:10,721 Speaker 3: and I remember being upset, and I remember Mum telling 200 00:10:10,761 --> 00:10:12,081 Speaker 3: me I was going to get it back. 201 00:10:12,841 --> 00:10:14,081 Speaker 4: And I'm pretty sure that when. 202 00:10:13,921 --> 00:10:16,361 Speaker 3: We got to the car and Dad's dad came with 203 00:10:16,441 --> 00:10:18,921 Speaker 3: joe Anne and the other girl she was wearing my 204 00:10:19,041 --> 00:10:20,121 Speaker 3: poncho to the car. 205 00:10:20,641 --> 00:10:22,241 Speaker 1: Did joe Enne come to the car? 206 00:10:23,001 --> 00:10:25,281 Speaker 4: Yes, we went to the car first, and then joe 207 00:10:25,321 --> 00:10:28,001 Speaker 4: Anne come with the other girl. She was holding her. 208 00:10:27,841 --> 00:10:29,881 Speaker 1: Hand, you call her Christians. 209 00:10:29,521 --> 00:10:34,801 Speaker 4: And Granddad was following him. Your granddad, Dad's Yes, Dad's dad. 210 00:10:35,241 --> 00:10:38,521 Speaker 3: What's his He was wearing mum's dad's hat and jacket 211 00:10:38,561 --> 00:10:41,201 Speaker 3: because we had to pinch that from Poppa's house up before. 212 00:10:41,761 --> 00:10:43,081 Speaker 4: But I didn't understand why. 213 00:10:43,681 --> 00:10:47,401 Speaker 1: Now Poppa is your mother's father, Is that right? Yes? 214 00:10:47,961 --> 00:10:48,641 Speaker 1: What's his name? 215 00:10:48,681 --> 00:10:49,841 Speaker 4: His name is stan. 216 00:10:50,161 --> 00:10:54,161 Speaker 1: Stan what Hart? Now? When you left the oval, where 217 00:10:54,161 --> 00:10:54,641 Speaker 1: did you go? 218 00:10:55,041 --> 00:10:58,241 Speaker 4: We went to Poppa's housing first, we stopped it. Can 219 00:10:58,241 --> 00:11:00,601 Speaker 4: I draw it on a new page? Yes, we had. 220 00:11:00,441 --> 00:11:03,121 Speaker 3: To hide underneath the blankets in the back of Dad's van. 221 00:11:04,001 --> 00:11:08,241 Speaker 3: Mum had some two blankets. I remember one being it. 222 00:11:08,121 --> 00:11:10,681 Speaker 4: Was like a ready color with white patterns on it 223 00:11:10,721 --> 00:11:13,401 Speaker 4: and it was like wool like and we. 224 00:11:13,441 --> 00:11:16,161 Speaker 3: Had to hide underneath their and we wasn't they wasn't 225 00:11:16,161 --> 00:11:18,201 Speaker 3: allowed to get out. And I remember that they kept 226 00:11:18,241 --> 00:11:20,401 Speaker 3: telling the girl that they were going to my birthday 227 00:11:20,721 --> 00:11:21,001 Speaker 3: and I. 228 00:11:21,001 --> 00:11:23,321 Speaker 4: Was excited because it was my birthday. 229 00:11:22,881 --> 00:11:25,441 Speaker 1: And I remember, was it your birthday? 230 00:11:25,921 --> 00:11:27,961 Speaker 3: I found out when we got to Poppas it wasn't 231 00:11:27,961 --> 00:11:31,041 Speaker 3: my birthday. They said that they just said that to 232 00:11:31,041 --> 00:11:31,361 Speaker 3: get the. 233 00:11:31,281 --> 00:11:32,001 Speaker 4: Girl to go there. 234 00:11:32,081 --> 00:11:34,281 Speaker 1: So you went to yes, because. 235 00:11:34,081 --> 00:11:36,801 Speaker 3: I remember I was angry because I didn't have When 236 00:11:36,841 --> 00:11:39,801 Speaker 3: I got there, there was no cake or balloons or anything. 237 00:11:41,561 --> 00:11:45,361 Speaker 3: There wasn't even no party there. But when before we 238 00:11:45,441 --> 00:11:48,161 Speaker 3: went to we had to hide underneath the blankets until 239 00:11:48,161 --> 00:11:50,601 Speaker 3: the big road. That the same big road that we 240 00:11:50,681 --> 00:11:52,561 Speaker 3: got on from the football that goes all the way 241 00:11:52,641 --> 00:11:56,121 Speaker 3: up and I remember that this is Smithfield because we 242 00:11:56,161 --> 00:11:58,121 Speaker 3: always stopped at the shop and on this side of 243 00:11:58,121 --> 00:12:00,361 Speaker 3: the road there's like you know, the one with the 244 00:12:00,361 --> 00:12:04,521 Speaker 3: shell yellow shell on it, and your cars parked there 245 00:12:04,561 --> 00:12:06,441 Speaker 3: and you can get chips and thick shakes and that 246 00:12:06,561 --> 00:12:09,521 Speaker 3: there and petrol and there's another one. I think it's 247 00:12:09,601 --> 00:12:12,521 Speaker 3: Ampoule or something, but they're on this side of the road. 248 00:12:12,521 --> 00:12:15,841 Speaker 3: When you're driving to Poppa's house. If you go this way, 249 00:12:15,881 --> 00:12:19,921 Speaker 3: you're going back to Adelaide. Well, when Dad parked, usually 250 00:12:19,921 --> 00:12:21,601 Speaker 3: we park in the car park when we go to 251 00:12:21,641 --> 00:12:24,121 Speaker 3: Poppa's house and we get the drinks or anything we 252 00:12:24,161 --> 00:12:26,841 Speaker 3: went to go. But this time Dad went on another 253 00:12:26,961 --> 00:12:29,161 Speaker 3: road and there's like a little hill thing here and 254 00:12:29,401 --> 00:12:32,441 Speaker 3: there's a little road next to some houses, and that's 255 00:12:32,481 --> 00:12:34,201 Speaker 3: when we were allowed to get out of the van. 256 00:12:35,001 --> 00:12:37,481 Speaker 3: Dad parked the van there and then he ran across 257 00:12:37,521 --> 00:12:40,401 Speaker 3: the road because I remember Mum when she was Mum 258 00:12:40,441 --> 00:12:40,801 Speaker 3: said we. 259 00:12:40,761 --> 00:12:42,761 Speaker 4: Could get out of the car to stretch our legs. 260 00:12:43,041 --> 00:12:46,001 Speaker 3: And there's like a little hill thing there with and 261 00:12:46,081 --> 00:12:48,841 Speaker 3: I think there's some little trees on it, but not 262 00:12:48,881 --> 00:12:49,961 Speaker 3: really bushy trees. 263 00:12:50,361 --> 00:12:51,881 Speaker 4: I remember we kept running up. 264 00:12:51,761 --> 00:12:53,921 Speaker 3: To see if Dad was coming back over the hill, 265 00:12:54,441 --> 00:12:56,881 Speaker 3: and I remember Mum was telling us off to get 266 00:12:56,921 --> 00:12:59,201 Speaker 3: back near the van because we was meant to be hiding. 267 00:12:59,641 --> 00:13:01,041 Speaker 4: And I didn't understand. 268 00:13:00,601 --> 00:13:03,001 Speaker 1: Why we had to didn get out of the van. 269 00:13:03,201 --> 00:13:05,041 Speaker 4: Yes, we all did, because joe Anne was our. 270 00:13:05,081 --> 00:13:06,961 Speaker 1: Friend then and was she older than you. 271 00:13:07,321 --> 00:13:08,521 Speaker 4: Yes, she was the oldest. 272 00:13:10,441 --> 00:13:13,921 Speaker 1: Did you go to sleep at the house not till later. 273 00:13:14,281 --> 00:13:17,121 Speaker 3: What happened was Dad put up two camping beds in there, 274 00:13:17,281 --> 00:13:18,241 Speaker 3: like they fold up. 275 00:13:18,521 --> 00:13:21,441 Speaker 4: There's legs like that and they fold up together and 276 00:13:21,561 --> 00:13:24,081 Speaker 4: they squeezed together and it's like an army bed. 277 00:13:24,801 --> 00:13:27,161 Speaker 3: Then when you unfolded, the legs go like that and 278 00:13:27,201 --> 00:13:30,121 Speaker 3: the bed is like that, and it's like green and these. 279 00:13:29,961 --> 00:13:30,601 Speaker 4: Bits of wood. 280 00:13:31,001 --> 00:13:31,921 Speaker 1: And then what happened. 281 00:13:33,161 --> 00:13:35,081 Speaker 3: There was one by the door and one near the 282 00:13:35,121 --> 00:13:37,241 Speaker 3: other side of the other one. And this is the 283 00:13:37,281 --> 00:13:39,681 Speaker 3: one later on in the night because after we had 284 00:13:39,721 --> 00:13:41,961 Speaker 3: the fight with the girl, Mum took us to go 285 00:13:42,121 --> 00:13:44,281 Speaker 3: because the girls were going to sleep in here, and 286 00:13:44,361 --> 00:13:46,521 Speaker 3: we was all sitting in there, and that's when they 287 00:13:46,561 --> 00:13:48,761 Speaker 3: tried to give the girl and the white dress the tunnel. 288 00:13:49,801 --> 00:13:52,401 Speaker 3: And that's when she had a shock. That's what Mum said, 289 00:13:52,721 --> 00:13:58,761 Speaker 3: but Joanne told me later she was dead. That's when 290 00:13:58,801 --> 00:14:00,361 Speaker 3: everything started getting scary. 291 00:14:00,601 --> 00:14:02,401 Speaker 1: And who gave it the tunnel? 292 00:14:03,121 --> 00:14:06,161 Speaker 3: I remember if this was the bed. The girl's head 293 00:14:06,201 --> 00:14:08,521 Speaker 3: was up this end where the door is. She was 294 00:14:08,601 --> 00:14:12,601 Speaker 3: laid down there. There was mum on this side. They 295 00:14:12,681 --> 00:14:14,681 Speaker 3: was on the bed sort of like on the bed 296 00:14:14,801 --> 00:14:17,281 Speaker 3: or nearly on the bed as well. And I don't 297 00:14:17,281 --> 00:14:19,361 Speaker 3: know whether they was holding her down or anything, but 298 00:14:19,441 --> 00:14:21,401 Speaker 3: I remember I had to hold the leg that was 299 00:14:21,441 --> 00:14:24,201 Speaker 3: on this side, and I remember laying on the leg 300 00:14:24,281 --> 00:14:27,001 Speaker 3: and to stop her kicking my brother. My brother had 301 00:14:27,121 --> 00:14:29,961 Speaker 3: the needle. Because I was only three, I guess that 302 00:14:30,001 --> 00:14:33,161 Speaker 3: I wasn't really I was more daydreaming than paying attention 303 00:14:33,201 --> 00:14:35,841 Speaker 3: to what they were doing because I didn't understand what 304 00:14:35,921 --> 00:14:38,201 Speaker 3: they were doing. I just remember the only thing that 305 00:14:38,241 --> 00:14:40,681 Speaker 3: comes to my mind is Mum telling me that I 306 00:14:40,721 --> 00:14:42,921 Speaker 3: had to put my hand on the needle and something 307 00:14:42,961 --> 00:14:45,521 Speaker 3: about my brother not having any chances left. 308 00:14:46,361 --> 00:14:49,401 Speaker 4: I remember that sticks in my mind that I didn't 309 00:14:49,481 --> 00:14:51,241 Speaker 4: understand a clue what it meant. 310 00:14:51,601 --> 00:14:53,641 Speaker 3: And I remember how it was awkward to hold her 311 00:14:53,721 --> 00:14:55,681 Speaker 3: leg down, and my brother saying to my mom all 312 00:14:55,721 --> 00:14:56,641 Speaker 3: the time, he's. 313 00:14:56,521 --> 00:14:59,881 Speaker 4: Taking his hand off, he's taking his hand off and back. 314 00:15:00,001 --> 00:15:02,801 Speaker 3: I'd say it was because my brother was laying over her, 315 00:15:02,841 --> 00:15:04,601 Speaker 3: it was hard for me to reach to put my 316 00:15:04,681 --> 00:15:05,601 Speaker 3: hand on the needle. 317 00:15:07,121 --> 00:15:09,641 Speaker 1: So what happened to Joanne later on? 318 00:15:10,001 --> 00:15:12,881 Speaker 3: What happened was after the girl got taken out. I 319 00:15:12,881 --> 00:15:15,041 Speaker 3: don't know where she was taken it first. I didn't 320 00:15:15,081 --> 00:15:19,281 Speaker 3: find out till later, but Mum, Joanne, Caroline, these beds 321 00:15:19,321 --> 00:15:20,041 Speaker 3: were taken out. 322 00:15:20,561 --> 00:15:23,121 Speaker 4: We were all locked in here. I'm like in the jail. 323 00:15:24,041 --> 00:15:28,721 Speaker 3: There was Mum, Caroline, Poppa had come back, Popper, Mum's dad, 324 00:15:28,961 --> 00:15:31,081 Speaker 3: and I remember that Johnny was in the room with us, 325 00:15:31,121 --> 00:15:33,161 Speaker 3: and I remember that he was all locked in there. 326 00:15:33,201 --> 00:15:36,161 Speaker 3: And that's when Mum started talking about things I had 327 00:15:36,161 --> 00:15:38,921 Speaker 3: to remember, and that I was going to live, that 328 00:15:39,081 --> 00:15:41,081 Speaker 3: Dad was going to let me live because Dad was 329 00:15:41,201 --> 00:15:43,881 Speaker 3: very angry that this girl had died and he didn't 330 00:15:44,281 --> 00:15:44,721 Speaker 3: I thought. 331 00:15:44,921 --> 00:15:47,041 Speaker 4: My impression is that he didn't get to do what 332 00:15:47,121 --> 00:15:47,761 Speaker 4: he wanted to. 333 00:15:47,721 --> 00:15:50,401 Speaker 3: Do with her before she died, and he was very 334 00:15:50,401 --> 00:15:53,521 Speaker 3: angry with Mum and was basically threatening Mum's life. 335 00:15:53,641 --> 00:15:56,041 Speaker 4: And also joe Anne and Caroline were scared they were 336 00:15:56,081 --> 00:15:56,841 Speaker 4: going to get killed. 337 00:15:57,721 --> 00:15:59,561 Speaker 1: What happened then we tried to. 338 00:15:59,601 --> 00:16:02,601 Speaker 3: Run away after we was locked in. Mum got taken 339 00:16:02,641 --> 00:16:05,881 Speaker 3: out and that's when my brother lifted me up. There's 340 00:16:05,961 --> 00:16:08,921 Speaker 3: like a room, there's a door there. There's like another 341 00:16:09,041 --> 00:16:11,241 Speaker 3: room with a fish tank in it, and this is 342 00:16:11,321 --> 00:16:14,281 Speaker 3: like a filled in verandah and there's a bathroom there. 343 00:16:14,601 --> 00:16:16,801 Speaker 3: But that wasn't really being used as a bathroom when 344 00:16:16,801 --> 00:16:19,441 Speaker 3: we was there. That got changed into a bathroom later. 345 00:16:20,801 --> 00:16:22,281 Speaker 1: What happened to Joanne? 346 00:16:23,601 --> 00:16:24,801 Speaker 4: She died the next day. 347 00:16:25,601 --> 00:16:27,641 Speaker 3: After that night, the girl got put in a hole 348 00:16:27,721 --> 00:16:31,041 Speaker 3: by the fence in the bag she was in the 349 00:16:31,081 --> 00:16:34,601 Speaker 3: bag I never saw the bags that had blood on them. 350 00:16:35,201 --> 00:16:36,601 Speaker 3: Was put in a hole by the fence. 351 00:16:37,761 --> 00:16:39,921 Speaker 1: And did you know were you able to point out 352 00:16:39,921 --> 00:16:40,441 Speaker 1: to anyone? 353 00:16:40,681 --> 00:16:43,401 Speaker 3: I've never known for sure where the fence was. I 354 00:16:43,441 --> 00:16:46,961 Speaker 3: remember Dad's police trying to make me say, but I 355 00:16:47,001 --> 00:16:47,441 Speaker 3: didn't know. 356 00:16:47,881 --> 00:16:50,561 Speaker 4: I was only three. I got taken. 357 00:16:50,881 --> 00:16:53,041 Speaker 3: I fell asleep on the way where we was driving 358 00:16:53,081 --> 00:16:55,881 Speaker 3: to wherever it happened. I was cuddled up to one 359 00:16:55,921 --> 00:16:58,961 Speaker 3: of the girls all the time because I was that panicking. 360 00:16:59,561 --> 00:17:01,441 Speaker 3: I wouldn't let mom and Dad touch me because I 361 00:17:01,481 --> 00:17:02,241 Speaker 3: was scared of him. 362 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,321 Speaker 1: Now, what happened to you? And she died the next day. 363 00:17:09,521 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 3: I saw her when she the last time I saw her, 364 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,761 Speaker 3: she was still alive because she. 365 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,641 Speaker 4: Was all broken. Where was at Poppa's house at this corner. 366 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,121 Speaker 3: What happened was after the other girl died, Dad went 367 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 3: down to the only phone and the power is at 368 00:17:24,721 --> 00:17:25,961 Speaker 3: the post office, which is a. 369 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,641 Speaker 4: Long way down this road and Dad went down there. 370 00:17:29,241 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 3: I remember he walked back and he was talking to 371 00:17:31,281 --> 00:17:35,041 Speaker 3: Mum about ringing his police or something and so. And 372 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 3: then what happened was they was having a meeting inside 373 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,041 Speaker 3: and we was allowed to go to sleep. I remember 374 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,241 Speaker 3: that in the morning we got sent to play outside 375 00:17:43,321 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 3: and there was Dad and some people were having a 376 00:17:45,721 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 3: meeting in there, and Mum said Dad was talking with 377 00:17:48,441 --> 00:17:51,041 Speaker 3: the police. We was told to play out in the back, 378 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,561 Speaker 3: but not to go around the front, so. 379 00:17:53,441 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 4: They knew that we was there. 380 00:17:55,441 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 3: They was having a meeting inside with joe Anne, and 381 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,521 Speaker 3: so we played. And you know when it's hot, you know, winter, 382 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 3: and you get the wet on the ground. They were 383 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,321 Speaker 3: starting to dry and when jo Anne came out and played. 384 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,041 Speaker 3: So it must have been maybe about between ten and 385 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:12,081 Speaker 3: twelve that joe Anne was allowed. When Joanne came out, 386 00:18:12,281 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 3: maybe a bit earlier. But when she came out, that's 387 00:18:15,481 --> 00:18:18,401 Speaker 3: when we ran around to look through because Poppa's garage 388 00:18:18,441 --> 00:18:21,801 Speaker 3: is here. There's a gap here. We went to see 389 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,521 Speaker 3: who was coming out of the thing, and there was 390 00:18:23,561 --> 00:18:27,321 Speaker 3: two man's in like the black suits like Dad's police wear. 391 00:18:27,681 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 3: So I never saw their faces, but I don't know 392 00:18:30,481 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 3: for sure if it was Dad's police, but I just 393 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,961 Speaker 3: assumed that it was Dad's police that went back out 394 00:18:35,001 --> 00:18:35,921 Speaker 3: and got in the car. 395 00:18:36,481 --> 00:18:38,081 Speaker 4: And also Granddad took. 396 00:18:38,001 --> 00:18:40,761 Speaker 3: Arnie carrolline later on in the day after Joanne got 397 00:18:40,801 --> 00:18:43,321 Speaker 3: hurt because Granddad came down as well. 398 00:18:44,241 --> 00:18:48,081 Speaker 1: Why do you call them Dad's police. 399 00:18:47,481 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 4: Because they was always like helping Dad, That's what it 400 00:18:50,201 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 4: seemed like. 401 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: Where did they come from? 402 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 3: Do you know they had a the shop with the 403 00:18:55,681 --> 00:18:58,001 Speaker 3: clock at Elizabeth They used to have a big police 404 00:18:58,001 --> 00:19:00,201 Speaker 3: station there, and they had an office in that big 405 00:19:00,201 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 3: police station. 406 00:19:01,481 --> 00:19:02,761 Speaker 1: Do you know their names? 407 00:19:03,201 --> 00:19:06,801 Speaker 4: I know them now. There's a mister Cawley and mister Hudson. 408 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,041 Speaker 3: Like someone showed me their photos and I said, that's 409 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:13,761 Speaker 3: Dad's police and they said that's mister Carley and mister Hudson. 410 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 2: The information in Mark Marshall's transcript is very detailed. He 411 00:19:26,321 --> 00:19:29,041 Speaker 2: remembers the team as Papa went for and the team Joe. 412 00:19:28,921 --> 00:19:29,601 Speaker 1: Anne went for. 413 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:34,041 Speaker 2: He remembers the game. He recalls with exact detail what happened. 414 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 2: And each time I read the document, I wonder if 415 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 2: it's just the time in jail that's allowed Mark to 416 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:44,521 Speaker 2: create this story, or is it something more sinister. Mark 417 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 2: Marshall has never been charged with anything to do with 418 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,521 Speaker 2: the girl's disappearance, and his earliest recollection is a young 419 00:19:51,561 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 2: boy of around three years old. If you think back 420 00:19:54,321 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 2: to your own earliest memories of a child three years 421 00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:00,281 Speaker 2: old might be a bit of a stretch, although it 422 00:20:00,321 --> 00:20:03,281 Speaker 2: is obvious that Mark Marshall's childhood was very different from 423 00:20:03,321 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 2: yours of mine. Now move on to page fifty two 424 00:20:06,441 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 2: of the transcripts. At this stage, the Commissioner is around 425 00:20:09,681 --> 00:20:13,481 Speaker 2: ninety minutes into Mark Marshall's statement. In front of markus 426 00:20:13,521 --> 00:20:16,321 Speaker 2: and pens in a book that he's drawing diagrams. The 427 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,761 Speaker 2: diagrams are of the area of which Mark claims Joan 428 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 2: was taken and also the property which was searched. On 429 00:20:23,561 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 2: page forty nine of the document, Mark talks about that 430 00:20:26,561 --> 00:20:30,321 Speaker 2: he heard two bangs like a loud gun shot. He 431 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 2: claims his dad and his popper had a gun and 432 00:20:33,321 --> 00:20:35,321 Speaker 2: went to the room that Joanne was being kept in. 433 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,841 Speaker 2: Mark then told the commissioner after two gunshots were fired, 434 00:20:41,321 --> 00:20:45,001 Speaker 2: his dad stormed down the hallway angry and grabbed Mark 435 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:50,361 Speaker 2: and yelled who shot Joanne? Me or Popper. Mark suggests 436 00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:53,001 Speaker 2: that his dad was saying, forget about what you heard 437 00:20:53,041 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 2: and saw and make sure you never talk about it. 438 00:21:00,321 --> 00:21:02,761 Speaker 2: Mark then states that the next morning he was in 439 00:21:02,801 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 2: the back of a van and started to wake up 440 00:21:05,521 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 2: and asked where joe Anne was, and that's when his 441 00:21:08,201 --> 00:21:10,241 Speaker 2: mum and dad, who were in the front seat, said, 442 00:21:10,561 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 2: Joanne who you must have had a bad dream. In 443 00:21:14,761 --> 00:21:18,041 Speaker 2: Mark's words to the commissioner, it was like joe Ane 444 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 2: never existed. Although this sounds far fetched, you remember Bear 445 00:21:22,921 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 2: mentioned in an earlier episode the prescription book that they 446 00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:28,561 Speaker 2: found at the Yat and the property, which was open 447 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 2: on the page about drugging people for sleep. 448 00:21:31,041 --> 00:21:34,481 Speaker 6: There was a doctor's book in a cabin in the 449 00:21:34,561 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 6: land room, and when I it was it. 450 00:21:37,321 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 8: Was a prescription properties died and it kind of tells 451 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 8: you how to use prescription drugs properly and. 452 00:21:49,001 --> 00:21:50,001 Speaker 4: What they used for. 453 00:21:50,201 --> 00:21:56,801 Speaker 6: And when we opened it, the book opened to a 454 00:21:56,921 --> 00:22:00,041 Speaker 6: page that you know how a book has been opened 455 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,001 Speaker 6: frequently to a certain page. Well, it is open to 456 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,561 Speaker 6: a page where it tells you it had a use 457 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,801 Speaker 6: particular dragon to put somebody in a hypnotic trainage. 458 00:22:10,481 --> 00:22:13,241 Speaker 2: The commissioner then asked Mark what happened to Joane's body. 459 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,801 Speaker 2: Mark says that he didn't know, but he said a 460 00:22:16,801 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 2: few days later his brother told him they got a 461 00:22:19,801 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 2: tank his poppa hat near the shed. That tank, as 462 00:22:22,921 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 2: Mark puts, it was similar to the barrels that Bear 463 00:22:25,681 --> 00:22:28,841 Speaker 2: and the police found. Mark claims that his dad took 464 00:22:28,921 --> 00:22:31,281 Speaker 2: him to these tanks a few days later and he 465 00:22:31,321 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 2: saw Joanne in a bullet hole in the forehead. The 466 00:22:35,441 --> 00:22:39,281 Speaker 2: following is quite gruesome. From Mark's accounts, Joanne was stuffed 467 00:22:39,281 --> 00:22:39,801 Speaker 2: in the barrel. 468 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 3: It was like a piece of bone. Yes, it was 469 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 3: poking out. And Dad was pushing my face against her, saying, 470 00:22:48,481 --> 00:22:50,401 Speaker 3: do you want to look like that? Do you want 471 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,561 Speaker 3: to look like that? And I could smell her like 472 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,041 Speaker 3: she smelled yucky, and she was all white like this. 473 00:22:57,241 --> 00:22:59,641 Speaker 3: And that's when Dad had these bags like they did 474 00:22:59,681 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 3: with the other girl, and Dad started dropping her. I 475 00:23:03,761 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 3: started screaming that, and Dad couldn't shut me up that. 476 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 3: Dad ended up letting me go through. I had to 477 00:23:09,921 --> 00:23:12,281 Speaker 3: get my brother to help me too, so I started 478 00:23:12,321 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 3: walking up and he got tangled up in these like 479 00:23:15,521 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 3: prickle bushes. There's all these little tunnels because it used 480 00:23:19,441 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 3: to be all filled with these like prickle bushes, so 481 00:23:22,281 --> 00:23:24,041 Speaker 3: he couldn't get down to that area. 482 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,321 Speaker 4: You couldn't even see down there from the wall. 483 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 3: My brother came and showed me the way back out 484 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,561 Speaker 3: to the wall, and then I ended up going back 485 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 3: across the mum. But that was after Dad started chopping 486 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,321 Speaker 3: her up. As far as I know, she was being 487 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 3: chopped up and put into the tank. I remember before 488 00:23:45,041 --> 00:23:48,561 Speaker 3: they started chopping her up. You know where the tank is, 489 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,481 Speaker 3: It's got like a little hole in the top. Dad 490 00:23:52,521 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 3: put hammer holes on the opposite side of the hole 491 00:23:55,921 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 3: where the hole was he put hammer. There's like the 492 00:23:58,721 --> 00:24:01,721 Speaker 3: bumpy bits he put. He's got like a hammer that's 493 00:24:01,721 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 3: got an axe one side and a hammer on the 494 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,761 Speaker 3: other jip rock and he put holes in the thing 495 00:24:07,921 --> 00:24:09,481 Speaker 3: so the water could go in there. 496 00:24:10,321 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 4: And that they took because when they pulled Joanna in, 497 00:24:13,001 --> 00:24:14,001 Speaker 4: there was these. 498 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,041 Speaker 3: Things on a little black things and they thought they 499 00:24:18,041 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 3: were crabs because they had claws, But now I know 500 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,041 Speaker 3: that they're yabbies. But that's what made the hole in 501 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:24,521 Speaker 3: the face. 502 00:24:25,481 --> 00:24:27,521 Speaker 1: We have to let these people take you back. So 503 00:24:28,041 --> 00:24:30,721 Speaker 1: I just got a few other questions. Have you told 504 00:24:30,761 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: police about what happened? 505 00:24:32,561 --> 00:24:36,321 Speaker 3: The police already they knowed when I was little, and 506 00:24:36,801 --> 00:24:39,801 Speaker 3: someone's been up there, because when I got taken, just 507 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,481 Speaker 3: before I came to jail, the end of the tank 508 00:24:42,521 --> 00:24:46,121 Speaker 3: had been cut off, like so now the tank is. 509 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:47,041 Speaker 4: One big hole. 510 00:24:47,681 --> 00:24:50,281 Speaker 1: You got taken by who? That was? 511 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,360 Speaker 4: Mister Weeding and another man. 512 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:54,921 Speaker 1: Did you tell them about it? 513 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:57,921 Speaker 3: They already knew about it. I didn't have to tell 514 00:24:57,961 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 3: them about it. They were like telling me not to 515 00:25:00,241 --> 00:25:03,201 Speaker 3: tell anyone else. That's what it seemed to me when 516 00:25:03,241 --> 00:25:05,041 Speaker 3: you went up there with the police. Did you find 517 00:25:05,201 --> 00:25:07,401 Speaker 3: the tank, Yes, the tank was still there. 518 00:25:08,921 --> 00:25:10,081 Speaker 1: Did you find jo Anne? 519 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 4: No? 520 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,041 Speaker 3: They took her out when I was about seven. They 521 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:17,001 Speaker 3: took her out of the tank, the bones out of 522 00:25:17,041 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 3: the tank. 523 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:18,441 Speaker 1: Who took her out? 524 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 4: Dad, brother Allan Ruskin? 525 00:25:22,041 --> 00:25:23,241 Speaker 1: Do you know what they did with them? 526 00:25:23,321 --> 00:25:25,441 Speaker 4: No? I was never allowed to know where they put 527 00:25:25,441 --> 00:25:26,001 Speaker 4: her bones. 528 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,001 Speaker 3: But I do remember that my brother and me when 529 00:25:29,041 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 3: I was little, had to there was something in the 530 00:25:31,481 --> 00:25:35,521 Speaker 3: fire at Popper's. Popper's got a place where he used 531 00:25:35,521 --> 00:25:37,881 Speaker 3: to have guy Fawk's Knight, and I remember that near 532 00:25:37,961 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 3: Poppers would pile where they had guy Fawks Night, and 533 00:25:41,481 --> 00:25:44,360 Speaker 3: I remember having to sit there with Dad's sledgehammer and 534 00:25:44,441 --> 00:25:48,281 Speaker 3: break things and maybe I was if I remember that 535 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 3: they may have even been the teeth of something, and 536 00:25:50,761 --> 00:25:52,761 Speaker 3: we had to break them in little tiny pieces. 537 00:25:53,241 --> 00:25:56,521 Speaker 2: Make Marshall's statement to the Commissioner is other eighty pages long. 538 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,201 Speaker 2: We heard from Susie that it was a very difficult read, 539 00:26:00,721 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 2: given its graphic nature and how this was not just 540 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 2: a body in a barrel. It may have been her 541 00:26:06,001 --> 00:26:10,801 Speaker 2: big sister. You also must remember that police labeled this 542 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 2: account of fantasy. 543 00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:17,241 Speaker 6: A police said it was all fantasy and fiction and 544 00:26:17,281 --> 00:26:18,281 Speaker 6: none of it existed. 545 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 4: And I said. 546 00:26:20,241 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 6: Well, we've actually found a place, and we were we've 547 00:26:25,201 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 6: been up there and yeah, yeah, we've been out there too. 548 00:26:28,001 --> 00:26:28,681 Speaker 6: They said. 549 00:26:30,041 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 4: Stuff. 550 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: And there the Bear, the private investigator, things differently either way. 551 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,281 Speaker 2: This account from mac marshall was the starting point for 552 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:40,921 Speaker 2: Bear and his team to start their search and also 553 00:26:41,001 --> 00:26:44,761 Speaker 2: give Susie and a family a little bit of hope. 554 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,241 Speaker 6: He described the place quite well in his little mud 555 00:26:48,321 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 6: map that he drew up. And we couldn't we actually 556 00:26:52,041 --> 00:26:58,041 Speaker 6: initially searched for We went and bought and started searching 557 00:26:58,201 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 6: for the town, and we we couldn't. We couldn't find 558 00:27:03,961 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 6: the proper the town on a map. And then I 559 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 6: went on too Google and actually found the town. And 560 00:27:10,681 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 6: as we moved down the street on the Google map, 561 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,041 Speaker 6: I saw the pine trees that he'd drawn on the map, 562 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 6: and all the heads stood up on my neck and 563 00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 6: I go, oh, my god, but this place doesn't exist, 564 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,321 Speaker 6: and that that was the most horrifying thing of all. 565 00:27:28,721 --> 00:27:31,001 Speaker 6: After I'd read the statement, I found out that place 566 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:31,921 Speaker 6: actually existed. 567 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,801 Speaker 2: In the next episode of Little Lost Girls, Susie talks 568 00:27:38,801 --> 00:27:41,041 Speaker 2: about her feelings on the police investigation. 569 00:27:41,521 --> 00:27:47,561 Speaker 5: It was only if they suddenly got information or you know, 570 00:27:47,681 --> 00:27:51,601 Speaker 5: the papers or the TV were going to come out 571 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,321 Speaker 5: with something that they'd remam and go think like this 572 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,961 Speaker 5: is this is coming out or this has happened to 573 00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:00,921 Speaker 5: be prepared and then in later years they didn't even 574 00:28:01,001 --> 00:28:01,321 Speaker 5: do that. 575 00:28:02,201 --> 00:28:05,401 Speaker 2: A new DNA test that might help solve this mystery. 576 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:10,481 Speaker 5: With five hundred different sets of remains being in those 577 00:28:10,521 --> 00:28:13,161 Speaker 5: more because that means there's over five hundred families around 578 00:28:13,201 --> 00:28:16,321 Speaker 5: Australia that could finally have answers and if we can 579 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,721 Speaker 5: raise that awareness about the missing loved one and reach 580 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,521 Speaker 5: that person that might have a piece of that puzzle. 581 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 2: And Susie's tragedy of losing a sister and how that 582 00:28:27,241 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 2: inspires her every day to help others. 583 00:28:30,041 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 5: It's all worth it and that's what I strive for. 584 00:28:33,801 --> 00:28:36,801 Speaker 5: You know, it's heartbreaking to know that we might not 585 00:28:37,281 --> 00:28:40,401 Speaker 5: ever locate the girls, but it's so saying that I'm 586 00:28:40,441 --> 00:28:40,761 Speaker 5: not going. 587 00:28:40,681 --> 00:28:42,041 Speaker 4: To give up hope. 588 00:28:42,321 --> 00:28:44,881 Speaker 5: My hope is all we have and if I give 589 00:28:44,921 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 5: that up, then we've got nothing. 590 00:28:52,801 --> 00:28:55,681 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode and supporting this story. 591 00:28:56,281 --> 00:28:59,121 Speaker 2: Independent storytelling that shapes the world is what pod shape 592 00:28:59,201 --> 00:29:02,241 Speaker 2: really cares about. Right now, There's thousands of people listening 593 00:29:02,281 --> 00:29:04,641 Speaker 2: to this show and our other true Crimes and there 594 00:29:04,721 --> 00:29:08,041 Speaker 2: can delely engaged. More than ten million Australians listen to 595 00:29:08,041 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 2: podcasts each week. If you've ever thought about advertising your 596 00:29:11,441 --> 00:29:13,961 Speaker 2: business in a podcast, there's a link to reach out 597 00:29:13,961 --> 00:29:16,921 Speaker 2: in the show notes, or head to podshape dot com 598 00:29:16,961 --> 00:29:17,841 Speaker 2: to book a free call.