WEBVTT - Paul Murray Live | 15 July 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.000 From the Sky News Center. 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:05.120 This is Paul Murray Live. 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:10.039 Thank you, Danika, and hey, good evening everyone. James Burrow 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:12.680 here for Paul Murray Live tonight and all through the week. 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.400 And yes it is a huge Tuesday night for you. 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:19.759 But with Albanezy's trip to China, more fallout from that 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:24.880 Treasury blunder and the new Parliament getting ready to kick 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:28.120 off next week, Darren Barnett and James Ashby will be 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:30.320 here to duke it out in a little bit. Plus 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.680 we are going to have the one and only nod 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:35.720 of Farage. So what do you say? Let's rip in 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:40.560 a shall we all right? So it's day three now 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.800 of Albo and Jody's big six day trip to China, 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:48.640 which breaking news. The Prime Minister seems to think is 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:54.040 even more important to attend than Parliament. A little while ago, 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.959 the PM was captured on an open mic earlier today. 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:06.800 Assume that's meeting for the first time next Tuesday, one 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:12.080 week Hawaii. And so I'm here before Parliament has been scheduled. 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.040 I think that can be taken as a sign of 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.720 the importance of the relationship. 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:21.760 Tug the forelock a little more of their Prime Minister 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.199 doesn't it say it all that that he thinks it's 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:30.040 so important to go to China before going to Parliament's 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.640 But you know what, even with all of that, it's 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:38.080 not clear to me exactly why this trip is so important. 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.880 I mean, today the Prime Minister met with Chinese President 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.120 Jijin Ping. And by the way, why do we call 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.040 him a president. It's like that applies to some sort 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:52.000 of democratically elected official. But anyway, whatever, we'll call him that. 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.520 I watched though, after that meeting that he had with 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:59.440 the president, the whole press conference the Prime Minister had 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:05.360 after that meeting, and well, is there anything new? Did 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:09.639 the Prime Minister have anything new to report? Has anything 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:15.040 really changed with our relationship with China? I don't think so. 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:19.120 But that said, even if the PM has been serving 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.360 up very little in the way of real meat on 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.440 the bone of this or what's supposed to come out 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:28.520 of this besides maybe some exchanges of business cards, well 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.360 guess what, the press corps that he brought along for 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.640 the ride has been doing their best to hold the 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:38.760 Prime Minister to account, because today there was a startlingly 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:41.880 robust and I think pretty punchy press conference, at least 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.120 again on the side of the press pack and I 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.880 think at times the Prime Minister maybe even wished for 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.120 just a second that he had the sort of control 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.160 over the media that they have in China. 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:58.400 On the security side, did you think assurances that Australia 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.560 would be better informed in future true about the PLA's 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:05.640 navy in Australian waters. 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:10.400 Yes to the former. And secondly, in response of course 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:17.280 it was president she said that China engaged in exercises 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.600 just as Australia engages in exercises. 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:22.959 Can I just clarify on that answer that you specifically 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:28.160 thought that the notification was really the issue that Australia 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:29.240 had had earlier in the year. 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:31.480 I said what I said at the time, which was 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:35.280 that it was within international law. There was no breach 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:42.280 of international law by China, but that we were concerned 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.880 about the notice and the way that it happened, including 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:48.720 the li fire exercises. 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:53.280 There we go again, It was not outside international law. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.360 And I have to keep asking this question, why is 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:02.720 the Prime Minister always so quick to defend China. Well, 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.240 the press conference went on and the Prime Minister seemed 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:07.800 to get a little bit testy as well when he 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:12.040 was asked anything about any about any topic that didn't 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:16.240 have to do with trade, which is apparently all he 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.280 wants to talk about on this trip. 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:23.919 Your government's made clear it's concern about China's explained military 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:27.560 build up. Did you see clarity on China's strategic or 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:30.600 military intent and did you seek any clarity Would you 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.719 gain any insight into China's plans for reunification with Taiwan? 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:42.440 The I reaffirmed on Taiwan, Australia's position of support for 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:46.160 the status quo, on. 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:52.040 The military build up and what its purpose is, what 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.080 china strategic and military aims are. 0:04:54.960 --> 0:05:01.839 Well, you would be surprised if that was brought forward, 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.720 And I'm not sure what you're getting out or what 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:09.400 you're suggesting might be have been raised, So I'm not 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:10.279 sure the context. 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.279 Well, your government's raised concerns about the military build up 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:15.719 and the lack of clarity around what it might be 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.920 used for. Do you feel confident that China is a 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.080 force for peace in the region after this meeting or 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:21.240 do you? 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.360 Well, what we did was we put forward Australia's position 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.720 or I did, which is that we want peace and 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:31.080 security in the region, that that is in the interests 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.919 of both Australia and in the interests of China. 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.920 He really didn't like that question. You can always tell 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:40.039 what he plays with his glasses and his mouth gets 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.320 as ball because he's really annoyed that someone's asking him 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.640 a question that he doesn't want to answer, but he 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.599 had to. But of course he also put a little 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:53.880 bit more distance between Australia and the US Prime Minister. 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:58.599 Our security partner, the United States regards China as its 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:02.520 greatest military thing. Read I'd like you if you could 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:06.640 to say, how do you regard China in terms of 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:11.760 its threat and particularly has your view on the security 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:15.479 threat changed as a result of your sitting down with 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.239 the president on the latter. 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.840 No, it hasn't. We have strategic competition in the region, 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:27.279 but we continue to engage in order to support peace 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:30.800 and security in the region and stability in the region, 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.800 and that's something that we advocate for. That's something I 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:35.680 advocated for today. 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:40.320 Note the very clear difference in the way Australia regards 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:44.680 China and China's plans from Australia now. The press also 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:48.640 asked not one, not two, but three questions about detained 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:53.120 Chinese Australian Yang Han Jun. But the Prime Minister batted 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:57.520 those questions away. And as to the outcomes of this trip, 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.560 well we still seem to be three days in, none 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:01.080 the wiser. 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:05.440 You spoke a lot about the importance of increasing dialogue, 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:10.640 building engagement between businesses. What tangible outcomes are you looking for, 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.320 for example, with a free trade agreement from these talks. 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:17.760 Well, you see some outcomes this afternoon. I will travel 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:23.360 back immediately after this for the leader's meeting with Premier Lee. 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:29.880 But already what you've seen is a range of business 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:35.840 to business relationships, if you like, coming forward. Some of 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:40.760 those have been written about already on the free trade agreement. 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:46.200 One of the provisions, not unusually in the chapter the 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:50.240 Chinese Australia Free Trade Agreement that was signed by the 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:56.560 former government ten years ago in twenty fifteen following the 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:02.239 Comprehensive Partnership that was signed also by the Abbic government, 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:06.080 was as a clause in there for a review that 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:10.160 will happen because the ten years has clicked in, so 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:11.600 will engage in that. 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:14.840 Did that make any sense to you? Do you know 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:16.800 why he's there? Do you know what's going to come 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.320 out of this? I still don't really after all of that. Now, 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.240 there was more to the press conference, but one thing 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:26.360 is clear that Chinese government was very happy with the 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.760 outcome of all of this. Now, they didn't raise anything 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.880 about US pressure over our stance on Taiwan, and according 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.080 to the Prime Minister, they also said nothing about the 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:40.880 port of Darwin either and strategically that makes a lot 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.800 of sense for them, you see, because for Jijin Ping 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.680 and the Chinese Communist Party, their aim is to draw 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:52.800 Australia closer to Beijing and further away for Washington d C. 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:55.960 They don't need any of those issues getting in the 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.840 way of that trajectory. And guess what, the Prime Minister 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:04.600 seems more than happy to oblige on this. But frankly, 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.760 I don't think this performance on his part is good enough. 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.840 And it wasn't good enough either for Opposition leader Susan Lay, 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.800 the Opposition leader earlier today was in Western Australia, and 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:16.800 here's what she had to say. 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:22.559 Well, the issue of Australians that are detained in human 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.400 rights and for Dr Jung, this is something that I 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.440 would expect the Prime Minister to raise because it is 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:32.600 of great concern to many Australians. Also of concern is 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.840 the live firing exercises that took place around our coastline 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:41.520 in February this year. That was not a respectful relationship 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:46.200 in terms of not being informed the life firing nature 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.160 and the way that activity took place. That should also 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:53.480 be raised. And the Prime Minister should speak frankly about 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:57.400 the increasing influence that China has in the region and 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:01.559 speak about the importance to Australia of the US relationship. 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:05.120 And while I note that the Prime Minister is making 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:07.720 this trip to China, we also note that he hasn't 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.640 had conversations or been in the room with President Trump. 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:16.920 And we want a strong, stable, prosperous region and pace 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:18.880 through strength and returns. 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:21.960 Well said on the part of the Opposition leader. And 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:25.440 while Albanez he did talk about doctor Yang and the 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.880 live fire exercises, or at least he said so, who 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:33.559 knows how strongly he represented Australia's interests here. By the way, 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.080 speaking of the Opposition leader, it was also good to 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.600 see her firing up over that revelation in those accidentally 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:43.520 released Treasury documents that the government is going to miss 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.800 its one point two million house housing target and is 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.000 going to have to raise taxes to get the budget 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.480 into some sort of shape. And also how Treasurer Jim 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.880 Chalmers said that he was well relaxed about all that. 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.920 Here's a bit of what she had to say there. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:03.720 Measure relaxed about Australians paying more tax What has he 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.200 got planned for them? It's a treasurer relaxed about the 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:09.520 fact that we are not going to meet a target 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.719 of one point two million more homes. For the young 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.720 Australians that I meet every day, they deserve that dream 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:19.240 of home ownership, and they deserve a government that backs 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.640 in their aspiration every single day of the week, instead 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.000 of shrugging its shoulders and saying it's okay, we'll take 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.160 the easy way out and we'll just raise taxes. 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.440 Well indeed, and that was well said there, and I 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.080 think they're getting their lines all nice and sharpened up 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.680 for Parliament next week. But let's get back to the 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.120 main issue here, which is of course Albanese's trip to China, 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:45.560 because again, the Albanese way here is I think very 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:49.080 dangerous in the long run for US, even if it 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:53.800 seems superficially attractive in terms of trade and making money 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.360 and keeping the economy ticking. Over look, it's pretty clear 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:59.640 to me that the Prime Minister has been duchess at 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.400 every step of the way here by the Chinese Communist Party. 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:08.600 Before the meeting. Today, the official China Daily newspaper, a 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:12.040 mouthpiece for the Chinese Communist Party that is used to 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:16.680 signal their positions to the English speaking world, they published 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:22.120 an editorial that was entitled common Ground Prevails over Differences. 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.160 The editorial went on to say, quote against the backdrop 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:29.720 of rising tensions between the United States and many countries 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:33.520 because of the US administration's recent threat to levy higher 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:38.320 tariffs on them from August first, Albanesi's visit shows that 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:42.800 the Australian side has a clearer judgment and understanding of 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:51.600 China than it had under the previous Scott Morrison government. Well. Morrison, 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.120 by the way, to his credit, laughed at off, saying 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.480 quote having a character reference from the China Daily was 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:02.480 never one of my foreign policy aspirations. But maybe not 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:07.280 for Morrison. Albo is a different story. He doesn't see 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:11.560 the trap that he is walking our country into. For him, 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.240 he sees this trip as just business. 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.679 The fact that Senior Australian business people led by the 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:23.319 Business Council of Australia have come here to Beijing as 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:28.120 well as we're president in Shanghai, and in Australian businesses 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:32.080 will also be engaged with us in Chungdu. Shows how 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:37.320 important the economic relationship is and how the Australian business 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.880 community regard this as an important relationship. 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.440 Well you see where this is all going here. I mean, 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.640 this is this kind of weird values free foreign policy 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:52.360 here that the Prime Minister seems to have that says, well, 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.520 you do business with China, your security from the United States, 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.720 those two things they don't have to come into conflict 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.760 and a thing we find. But it does seem to 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:06.840 me like business is driving the relationship with China, not 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:12.920 necessarily those Australian values that Anthony Albanizi is so fond 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.480 of talking about. But this is a really difficult balancing 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.720 act and we wait to see what more comes of 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:24.120 this series of meetings yet. To me, just the fact 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:29.080 that Albanizi even had to ask about detained Australian Chinese 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:33.120 Yang Haan Jung, that should be a clue about the 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.360 sort of regime that we're dealing with. They are not 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:40.120 a free speech regime. They are a totalitarian regime. They 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.880 are not a liberal democracy. And the fact that Prime 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:48.280 Minister Albanesi was asked three times about this case should 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:54.560 also tell him something. Yes, China may be an economic powerhouse. 0:14:55.080 --> 0:15:00.120 Yes they may buy our green steel whatever that is. Yes, 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.960 but its system, the system of the Chinese Communist Party 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:10.560 is fundamentally different. Now I am not saying here at all. 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.520 Let's be really clear here. I'm not saying we have 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.880 any sort of mission or role or need to turn 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:21.360 China into some sort of liberal democracy. That's not our business. 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.640 That's not our concern. That's the concern of the Chinese people. 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.840 But the fact is that the Chinese government is imperialist 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.720 and it aims to supplant the United States as the 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:37.840 world leading power, particularly in the Pacific. And if that happens, 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.160 I'm sorry, that just is not going to be good 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:45.000 news for us, no matter how much green steel we 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:48.600 think we can ship to them. Now, today things are happy, 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.680 there's all this happy talk about business and trade and 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:55.400 getting rich. But the fact is they may not always be. 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.640 Remember COVID, Remember when we said we have to diversify 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:05.600 our supply lines. Recall that China daily invoked Morrison in response, 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:10.080 and when Morrison had his fight with China during that period, 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:14.840 in response, China issued a list of fourteen points of 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:19.640 fourteen demands through the press, and they said at the time, 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:22.280 this is how can you go bad? They said, at 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.600 the time, China is angry. If you make China the enemy, 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.880 China will be the enemy. And you know how our 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.200 wine growers and our coal producers and so many other 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.600 industries suffered. And remember that among the grievances that China 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.920 had against the government during that time, we're funding for 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:45.480 quote unquote anti China research at the Australian Strategio Policy Institute, 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:49.920 raids on Chinese journalists and academic visa cancelations, spearheading a 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:54.160 crusade in multileaer forums on China's affairs in Taiwan, Hong 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.440 Kong and Jinjiang, calling for an independent investigation into origins 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.680 of COVID nineteen, Huawei from the five G network in 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:06.600 twenty eighteen, and blocking ten Chinese foreign investment deals across infrastructure, 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:11.879 agriculture and animal husband as husbandry sectors. Sorry about that, 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.080 but listen, this is what it's all about. These were 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:20.040 demands against Australian sovereignty. This is what happens if you 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.600 go against what the CCP wants you to do as 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:27.679 a nation. They make these demands against our sovereignty. And 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.080 make no mistake, things may seem fine in the here 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.320 and now, and we may get some more trade out 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:39.360 of this, and that's all great. But China sees themselves 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:43.760 in this relationship as they do with their relationships with 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.520 other nations in the Pacific, whether it's the Philippines, Vietnam, 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:52.480 anybody else. They see themselves in the driver's seat. We 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:57.600 here in Australia, we're passengers. We are the junior supplicants 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:01.200 in this relationship, at least as far as Jijin Ping 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:05.320 sees us. Now. Watching the events in the last few 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.479 days in the lead up to the trip, I have 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:17.040 to ask, does Anthony Albaniazi realize this? Frankly, I don't know. Anyway, Look, 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:19.520 before we go, there's something else I also want to 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:23.119 talk about very quickly, and that is the autopen scandal 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:27.840 engulfing the former Joe Biden administration. Now you may have 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.680 heard about this that for some time there has been 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.240 a controversy over this device called an autopen, which can 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:39.720 basically replicate somebody's signature, in this case the presidents. And 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.960 it has come out that this autopen was used to 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.800 sign all sorts of things pardons, you see it there 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:50.520 on your screen, orders, all sorts of different presidential instruments 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.800 that would normally be signed by his own hand. And 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.840 the issue is whether or not Joe Biden when he 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:02.720 was president, legally signed then instruments such as these parties, 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:07.520 including thousands of pardons. Now, when President Donald Trump first 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.680 raised the idea, and he did this a long time ago, 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.600 that White House staffers in the Biden administration may have 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.600 hijacked the auto pen and used it to reproduce Joe 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:22.159 Biden's signature, it seemed like an out there conspiracy theory, 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.879 designed more as a way to capture the vibe of 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:31.960 Joe Biden's udderless presidency than a statement of actual fact. Yet, 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:35.639 as I always like to say, today's conspiracy theory is 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:40.200 tomorrow's coming attraction. And now the autopen issue has gotten 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:45.800 a massive airing in the very anti Trump pro Democrat 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.600 New York Times, now getting out in front of what 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:54.679 is going to be a rather big congressional investigation. Democrats 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:58.679 have gone there and given the story, and they have said, 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:01.280 on the one hand, the former president said he was 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:05.720 across every pardon an order that was signed. Yet when 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.440 you read the article closely, it reveals that in many 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.840 cases the president barely knew what was going on with 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:16.919 many of these pardons, including some incredibly troubling ones that 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.480 included grants of clemency's for Chinese spies and all sorts 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:25.920 of other unsavory characters as well. Biden's chief of staff 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:30.639 Jeff Zietz, personally signed off on preemptive pardons for a 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:35.880 number of people, including doctor Anthony Fauci, remember him, well, 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:40.920 he had actually also been previously, you'll recall, the coordinator 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:46.160 of the White House's COVID response during the cod pandemic, 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.720 So who knows about that. But despite all this, Joe 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:54.920 Biden said, I made every decision, which is reassuring because 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.960 everyone knows the politicians where the pastor president, and certainly 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.600 not Joe Biden. Well, they never shame the truth in 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:04.480 order to burnish their legacy. So the only reason the 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:08.200 device was used, apparently was because he said, according to Biden, 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:10.760 we were talking about a whole lot of people, a 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:13.720 whole lot of partons that needed to be signed. It, 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:17.320 even as the former president, who was generous enough to 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:19.359 give The New York Times a full ten minutes of 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:21.640 his time over the phone to talk about the issue, 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:25.959 claimed to be across the issue. The Times account suggested otherwise, 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:30.399 with it admitting that Biden's staff said the president didn't 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:34.680 really make the individual clemency decisions, that the staffers executed 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:37.920 the signings, were not present when he supposedly authorized them, 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:41.440 and that in many cases these pardons or clemencies were 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:46.680 granted as part of simply broad categories. Cont the former 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.720 president's claims to The Times, The paper reported that mister 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:53.800 Biden did not individually approve each name for the category 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:57.520 of pardons that applied to large numbers of people. He 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:02.679 and aides confirmed rather extensive discussion occurred, and he signed 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:05.520 off on the standards he wanted to be used to 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:11.400 determine which convicts would qualify for a reduction incentence. Turns out, 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:15.600 the only parton Joe Biden did sign with his own hand. Well, 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:18.119 that was the full part, and he gave to his 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:21.679 son Hunter, something he had promised not to do on 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:27.440 multiple occasions before the twenty twenty four election. So this 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:30.480 is a fascinating story here, and we're going to see 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:33.760 quite a bit more of it. Donald Trump, though, had 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:38.439 this to say. 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:39.359 Look, Yodo Penn, I think is maybe one of the 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:42.520 biggest scandals. 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:43.840 That we've had in fifty. 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:44.560 To one hundred years. 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:47.320 This is a tremendous scandal. The people on the other 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:51.720 side of the Resolute Desk I know them, Lisa, the 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:53.680 Hall Group, and they're no good. 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:55.119 There's sick people. 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:59.919 And I guarantee he knew nothing about what he was saying. 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:01.920 I guarantee you. 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:04.960 That may be so, and I think this is gonna 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:07.200 be pretty big. But at the same time, it's hard 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:11.520 to see how apart from further tarnishing Biden's reputation and 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:14.159 raising more questions about who was really in charge for 0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:18.080 the four years of his presidency, anything here is really 0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:21.760 going to wind up changing. Now, don't go anywhere, because 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:24.320 after the break, we're gonna be joined by Darren Barnett 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:35.359 and James Ashby for some fired up Tuesday Night debate. Hey, 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:37.520 welcome back to the program. We've got a lot to 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:41.400 unpack here. Thankfully, I'm joined by one of my regulars here, 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:45.320 one Nation Chief of Staff James Ashby. James Ashby joins 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:47.800 from Queensland tonight. James, I want to talk to you 0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:50.879 first of all about this trip that ALBINIZI is on 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:53.399 to China and you're in Queensland, which is of course 0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:57.000 has a big exposure to China in terms of exporting resources. 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:01.520 But how are you feeling about the broader sense that 0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:04.520 this government is taking with China, that it's all about 0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:07.920 trade and nothing else, and that we can separate the 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:12.159 very different values in our between our two systems. What 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:14.920 did you make of the way the Prime Minister conducted 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:20.240 himself today. 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:23.520 Well, it sickens me to see Albanesi embracing gigiping while okay, 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:25.920 Harvey Bay's got their while watching happening at the moment 0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:29.919 here off central Queensland. Because we've got the Talisman Saber 0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:33.600 operation just happening about fifty to one hundred kilometers north 0:24:33.640 --> 0:24:37.080 of me. We've got effectively we could be running commercial 0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:39.680 ships out of here for effectively what I would call 0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:43.720 Chinese spy watching ships. You know, that's what we could 0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:46.120 go and visit out of our waters, not the whales, 0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:48.960 forget them. Chinese spy ships is sitting off out coast 0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:52.080 and Albaniz. He thinks that he's in the good company 0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:54.240 of a friend over there in China. I don't see 0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:57.600 that We've got thirty five thousand troops training for something 0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:01.240 very serious in what I think will happened within certainly 0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:04.440 my lifetime. China's made it very clear they want dominance 0:25:04.480 --> 0:25:05.520 across the globe and. 0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:06.560 Australia is part of that. 0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:11.120 So you know, the bloke he's embracing is the very 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:13.640 man we're probably going to go to war with over 0:25:13.680 --> 0:25:14.520 the next few years. 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:16.600 Well, yeah, and I just said, you know, as I 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:18.680 said to my editorial a few moments ago, I really 0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:21.440