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Speaker 1: She sees the garage door open. Her husband's car is

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Speaker 1: there with the engine running. The headlights are on, and

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Speaker 1: illuminated by those headlights is her husband, Macrory's fleet specialist

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Speaker 1: Jim Yates dead. That's the most extraordinary thing. Is revealed

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Speaker 1: that yes, he has been bashed around the head, but

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Speaker 1: there appears to be a puncture in his chest between

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Speaker 1: I think was the third and the fourth rib of

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Speaker 1: a hypodermic needle.

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Speaker 2: I'm Andrew Rules's Life of Crimes. Last week we spoke

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Speaker 2: at length to Preteri fit Simon's about his new book

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Speaker 2: about a Gratistraten where he Dunlop. But along the way

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Speaker 2: he mentioned that there was an aspect of the Weary

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Speaker 2: Dunlop story that many of us don't know, and that

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Speaker 2: is the Weary's great friend, fellow surgeon and in fact

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Speaker 2: best man, a man called Jim Yates. Quite a remarkable

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Speaker 2: man in his own right. Jim Yates, I think, was

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Speaker 2: one of five Yates brothers from too Woomber in Queensland,

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Speaker 2: two of whom played cricket for their state, all of

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Speaker 2: whom were very clever, hard working, ambitious men who made it.

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Speaker 2: I think they were all medicos or pretty well most

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Speaker 2: of the five were successful in medicine, and that is

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Speaker 2: why Jim Yates came to meet where he done lot

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Speaker 2: when they were abroad.

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Speaker 1: Don't let the cat out of the bag.

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Speaker 2: No, I won't. Now, Peter, you're fairly intimately acquainted with

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Speaker 2: this part of the story, although I have brushed up

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Speaker 2: against his story in the past and it does intrigue me.

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Speaker 2: Where did Weary and Jim Yates meet? Well?

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Speaker 1: Again, thank you for having me on your well highly

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Speaker 1: regarded show. And it was fascinating to chat to you

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Speaker 1: the other day because there are very few people that

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Speaker 1: know anything about this story, and so it's a jaw

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Speaker 1: for me to chat to you. But so this is

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Speaker 1: an extraordinary story. Were he done a lot with Jimmy

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Speaker 1: when Weiry Dunlop, as I mentioned to you, goes to

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Speaker 1: study surgery in England and he goes to London, And

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Speaker 1: it was like that line from was It William Wordsworth Bliss?

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Speaker 1: Was it in that dawn? To be alive? But to

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Speaker 1: be young was very heaven young men. They're in London,

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Speaker 1: they're chasing women, they're expanding their surgical skills, they're exploring

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Speaker 1: new worlds. They're loving everything about it, and he and

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Speaker 1: Jim Yates become the very best of friends. They then

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Speaker 1: go to the Middle East working in Jerusalem. I think

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Speaker 1: Jim Yates joined him briefly into brook and then when

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Speaker 1: they were imprisoned, Jimyates, I think from memory, goes to

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Speaker 1: their separated goes to New Guinea. But after the war

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Speaker 1: is over. I have to choose my words carefully here

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Speaker 1: because Weary Dunlop had been what is known as a

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Speaker 1: man of the world, and a man of the world

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Speaker 1: was the vernacular at the time. If you were a

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Speaker 1: man of the world, you probably didn't go to your

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Speaker 1: wedding day as a virgin would be a part of it.

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Speaker 1: He'd been a man of the world on the liners

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Speaker 1: on the way over to England. He'd been a man

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Speaker 1: of the world in London. He'd been a man of

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Speaker 1: the world in Paris. He was a man of the world.

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Speaker 1: He had an affair after the war was over with

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Speaker 1: Lady mount Batton.

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Speaker 2: Allegedly so did Gandhy.

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Speaker 1: They say, I am told that that was the case,

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Speaker 1: and I'd suspect Lord mount Batton probably was liberal with

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Speaker 1: his own favors and good luck to him. But the

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Speaker 1: point is that when Weary gets back to Australia, there

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Speaker 1: has been a very fine woman that he hasn't seen, Helen,

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Speaker 1: who's been waiting for him for dot three carry ones

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Speaker 1: subtract to eight years. He has not seen her for

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Speaker 1: eight years. They've been engaged to be married for seven

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Speaker 1: of those years. And he lands first at Cape York.

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Speaker 1: He gets to Sydney and he has a crisis of

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Speaker 1: confidence that what have I been doing. I'm in no

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Speaker 1: shape to marry this wonderful woman who's been waiting for me.

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Speaker 1: I'm not fit. He calls his best mate, Jim Yates,

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Speaker 1: Colonel Jim Yates, who comes to Sydney Airport, gets him,

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Speaker 1: takes him to Bondie Beach. They spend the afternoon on

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Speaker 1: Bondi Beach. Jim talks him through it and says, You'll

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Speaker 1: be okay these things happen. I'm sure Helen will either

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Speaker 1: understand or you don't tell her. Whatever it was. He goes,

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Speaker 1: takes him back to Sydney Airport, puts him on the plane,

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Speaker 1: kick somebody else off to put Weary on it. Weary

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Speaker 1: lands at deesendonn Airport that night at midnight, Helen's waiting

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Speaker 1: for him. They get married two weeks later. Jim Yates

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Speaker 1: is the best man. Now that's not where the story

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Speaker 1: ends for me. One of the things for me is

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Speaker 1: when I'm doing these other books, you come across these

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Speaker 1: stunning stories, and even though the story I'm about to

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Speaker 1: tell is only tangentially connected to Weary, it's still just

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Speaker 1: an amazing story, which is my chief care From memory,

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Speaker 1: it was early sixties, I think October nineteen sixty one

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Speaker 1: by this point, Colonel Jim Yates is a famous maccrory

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Speaker 1: Street specialist living in the salubrious suburb of vore Clues.

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Speaker 1: And one morning, at five thirty am, his wife Diana

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Speaker 1: comes out to the garage. She sees the garage door open,

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Speaker 1: her husband's car is there with the engine running. The

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Speaker 1: headlights are on, and illuminated by those headlights is her husband,

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Speaker 1: McCrary sleet specialist Jim Yates, dead, bassed around the head.

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Speaker 1: She calls the police. The police come, They take the

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Speaker 1: body to the coroners. They do an examination of the

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Speaker 1: body and the most extraordinary thing is revealed that yes,

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Speaker 1: he has been bashed around the head, but there appears

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Speaker 1: to be a puncture in his chest between I think

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Speaker 1: was the third and the fourth rib of a hypodermic needle.

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Speaker 1: They test the heart. They established that the heart has

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Speaker 1: got an overdose of adrenaline in it, that the most

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Speaker 1: likely cause of death, or the certain cause of death,

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Speaker 1: was not the bashing around the head, but it was

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Speaker 1: somebody had put a hypodermic needle in it, pressed it,

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Speaker 1: and given him an overdose of adrenaline, which had killed him.

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Speaker 1: There is a coroner's inquest, and before the coroner's in

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Speaker 1: quest takes place, the police get a tip off that

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Speaker 1: another Macquari Street specialist by the name of Eric Hebburg.

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Speaker 1: I think you've got the name there, HGDG, because we

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Speaker 1: don't want to be maligned to somebody else's name. But

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Speaker 1: if we were doing this absolutely properly, we'ld do it

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Speaker 1: in the police fashion. We'd say Eric John Jones Headburg

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Speaker 1: with two or three middle names, whatever they are. But

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Speaker 1: another Macquary Street specialist and a former acquaintance of both

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Speaker 1: Weary and Jim Yates, had been having an affair with

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Speaker 1: his wife, Diana. Not only that, they establish in the

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Speaker 1: coroner's inquest, there is the maid of Diana who basically

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Speaker 1: testifies to this effect. It is there are further suspicious

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Speaker 1: things in that Hedberg's wife had died I think six

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Speaker 1: months earlier, and he had complained to her sister, I

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Speaker 1: think my husband is trying to poison me. There are

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Speaker 1: other circumstantial evidence to the effect that it is established

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Speaker 1: that he had purchased Hedberger purchased adrenaline from a particular

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Speaker 1: chemist a short time before. His account was yes, I did,

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Speaker 1: but it were stolen from my car, and it's been

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Speaker 1: this has been done to frame me. Expert testimony is

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Speaker 1: put forward to the fact that with it, when it

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Speaker 1: came to Jim Yates's body, whoever killed him was a

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Speaker 1: very skilled medical practitioner, because if you and I were

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Speaker 1: trying to kill each other, which ribbed to put the

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Speaker 1: hypodermic neodle between but it was done by a seriously

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Speaker 1: qualified medical person. Circumstantially, and I don't say this is

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Speaker 1: true because I don't know, but circumstantially, all the evidence

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Speaker 1: points to the fact that the murderer of Jim Yates

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Speaker 1: was Eric Heinburg. And yet and so that was what

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Speaker 1: the papers were filled with. And we have to say,

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Speaker 1: because it's the truth, all of this alleged. Nothing of

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Speaker 1: it is proven, even though you know defamation law doesn't

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Speaker 1: apply here because the man himself is long dead. But

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Speaker 1: certainly it is fair to say the heavy suspicion was

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Speaker 1: placed on Edinburgh as the murderer of Jim Yates. The coroner, however,

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Speaker 1: the phrase I believe was there is not one sintilla

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Speaker 1: of hard evidence that establishes that a murder has taken place.

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Speaker 1: Mister Heedburgh, you are free to go.

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Speaker 2: Can I suggest, Peter that those things used to happen

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Speaker 2: in Sydney courts? Quite a bit? Go on to me.

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Speaker 2: I'm just suggesting that sometimes that outcomes, as with horse races,

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Speaker 2: could be known ahead, and perhaps that race was fixed.

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Speaker 1: Maybe well in this case, the fascinating thing is that

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Speaker 1: despite the heavy suspicion, despite the opprobrium coming his way,

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Speaker 1: despite the whispers, four years later, Eric Hegberg marries Diana Yates.

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Speaker 1: They lived happily ever after. And so it's just toll

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Speaker 1: me because I'm fascinated. This is your field. What do

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Speaker 1: you know? Court was known as the hypodermic needle.

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Speaker 2: The needle in the heart murder. As you've explained it,

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Speaker 2: it was actually a year earlier. It happened in spring

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty, which doesn't quite much. It's exactly as you said.

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Speaker 2: It strikes me that was Hedberg's reticence about bashing a

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Speaker 2: man literally to death that caused him to use the hypodermic,

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Speaker 2: which of course was the clue that gave him away. Ultimately,

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Speaker 2: had he just kept bashing, no one would know that

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Speaker 2: it was done by a doctor. They would think probably

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Speaker 2: a robbery. If he'd bashed him until he died and

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Speaker 2: then taken his wallet and sort of emptied it of

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Speaker 2: money and thrown it into a garden next door, everyone

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Speaker 2: would have thought it was a mugging of some sort.

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Speaker 2: But this is hypodermic is what gives it away.

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Speaker 1: Right, This is your field and not mine. So he's

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Speaker 1: done dozens of crimes and murder cases. So my question

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Speaker 1: to you in this case, when you have that it

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Speaker 1: was We've established that Hebburg was having an affair with

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Speaker 1: wife of the murder victim. We established that he did

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Speaker 1: buy adrenaline. There is further suspicion that Heedburgh's own wife

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Speaker 1: had allegedly died by poisoning, and that she had confided

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Speaker 1: to her sister, and that had confided to her sister.

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Speaker 1: I think he's trying to poison me. End of that.

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Speaker 1: After she had died, there was an amazingly quick I

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Speaker 1: think cremation before anything or anybody friends knew.

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Speaker 2: It's not you know.

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Speaker 1: So what my question to you is, when it is

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Speaker 1: obvious that the circumstantial evidence is so strong pointing towards

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Speaker 1: his guilt in law, is there nothing where you say, listen,

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Speaker 1: the circumstantial evidence here is so strong. Is just so

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Speaker 1: strong that it's no longer circumstantial because the only outcome

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Speaker 1: that fits everything that a murder took place.

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Speaker 2: And they are reluctant. Purely circumstantial cases have been successful,

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Speaker 2: but they're reluctant to go with it. However, I would

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Speaker 2: suggest that this case, and I take back what I

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Speaker 2: said about Sydney, because Melbourne has a similar case. I

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Speaker 2: just remembered Lady Ryler, who was the ever or not

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Speaker 2: ever loven wife, the estrange wife of the then chief Secretary.

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Speaker 2: I think he was called the chief secretary in the

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Speaker 2: old days, in the sixties. It was to the right

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Speaker 2: hand of the premier. He was really the Premier's right

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Speaker 2: hand man, the chief cook and bottle washer of the state.

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Speaker 2: Cabinet was the Chief Secretary, who was essentially like he

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Speaker 2: would be like a police minister as well as other functions.

200
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Speaker 2: So the Chief Secretary was a very powerful person in

201
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Speaker 2: the state government. Anyway, Lady Ryler was a founding member.

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Speaker 2: She helped set up the Girl Guides in Australia. She

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Speaker 2: was a very successful veterinary surgeon. She had her own

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Speaker 2: column in the then very powerful Herald newspaper with a

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Speaker 2: great evening newspaper of those days, and she was a

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Speaker 2: successful and strong minded woman in her own right. She

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Speaker 2: and he had clearly fallen out of love. He was

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Speaker 2: a womanizer. He was having an affair or a string

209
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Speaker 2: of affairs, and in fact they were living like Yates

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Speaker 2: and his wife. They were sort of living apart inside

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Speaker 2: their large double story house in q which is a

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Speaker 2: solid and respectable suburb in Melbourne. And one morning, at

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Speaker 2: around the time the Great Riyler was conducting his affair

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Speaker 2: with this woman that worked in his office or whatever

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Speaker 2: it was, his wife, Lady Ryler goes out very early

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Speaker 2: in the morning and apparently she fell over on the

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Speaker 2: garden path and repeatedly hit her head on a spade

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Speaker 2: which killed her. And that was very sad, and she also,

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Speaker 2: like missus Yates, was rushed quickly to the coroner's office,

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Speaker 2: which was a pretty rough affair in those days, down

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Speaker 2: by the error, a very smelly, horrible place with rats

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Speaker 2: in it, and there was a very cursory and quick

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Speaker 2: post mortem done and then they burnt her body. Within

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Speaker 2: something like three days she was cremated and was.

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Speaker 1: The finger of suspicion was pointed at the.

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Speaker 2: Never as strongly as in the Age case. Riley was

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Speaker 2: never charged. It was alluded to, it was known about

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Speaker 2: by certain people. I'd never heard of it until a

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Speaker 2: friend of mine, John Sylvester, who's a career crime writer,

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Speaker 2: famous for his father was Fred Sylvester, who was an

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Speaker 2: assistant Commissioner of police, and his father told John a

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Speaker 2: long time ago that Rylett was always very friendly and

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Speaker 2: nice to members of the homicide squad because they had

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Speaker 2: an understanding relationship where possibly but they would get bottles

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Speaker 2: of whiskey at Christmas time and they would get leave

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Speaker 2: whatever it was, and it was an open it was

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Speaker 2: an open secret in the police force that that's what

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Speaker 2: had happened. He was never charged. He married the other

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Speaker 2: woman and lived, you know, happily or unhappily ever after.

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Speaker 1: And I hasten to add at this point, even though

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Speaker 1: defamation laws don't apply when somebody is dead. Yes, these

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Speaker 1: remarks are being made by Andrew Ruhl, not by you,

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Speaker 1: not Peter fitz Simons of the Sydney Morning Herald.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely true, but they're all dead and married. I did

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Speaker 2: go and find an old man in a nursing home

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Speaker 2: who was connected with the family in some way I

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Speaker 2: forget how, but even all their children are dead. Now

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Speaker 2: it's a good story. I think it's only really been

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Speaker 2: written once. But there was an allusion to it by

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Speaker 2: the late Peter Ryan, who was a very fine history

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Speaker 2: and author sais and columnists down here for years, a

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Speaker 2: World War Two veteran, a very interesting man. He wrote

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Speaker 2: a piece for the Nation I think magazine I was called,

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Speaker 2: which was pretty a pretty good magazine in the sixties.

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Speaker 2: It was a national magazine. It was fairly sophisticated. It

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Speaker 2: was possibly a little bit like time. It was a

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Speaker 2: good magazine. He'd written a column about this, which someone

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Speaker 2: tipped me off to and I went to the Melbourne Library,

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Speaker 2: to the State Library, and I was pointed out that

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Speaker 2: this magazine had been kept in all these leather bound folders,

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Speaker 2: and it had only been published for a decade, and

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Speaker 2: that each year had its leather folder, and each folder

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Speaker 2: had its twelve editions of this monthly magazine. And one

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Speaker 2: of these magazines, i'll say number nineteen, had this story

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Speaker 2: by Peter Ryan, which would tell me all about or

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Speaker 2: tell me some things about this alleged crime. And I

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Speaker 2: went to the library, and I went to the shelves.

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Speaker 2: I got permission to go into the bit where the

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Speaker 2: public can't go, and they pulled out not twenty of

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Speaker 2: these leather bound volumes, but nineteen. The appropriate one was missing.

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Speaker 2: It had been taken, and really it had disappeared. And

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Speaker 2: this is how the wealthy and the powerful clean up

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Speaker 2: after themselves. Abe Saffron did the same thing in Sydney.

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Speaker 2: There was nothing left in public libraries or in the

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Speaker 2: Parliamentary Library in Sydney to implicate Abe Saffron in anything.

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Speaker 2: And the samement happened in Melbourne with the railer thing.

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Speaker 2: And in the end I got a copy of that

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Speaker 2: magazine in Sydney, not in Melbourne.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, This is meant to be

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Speaker 1: you interviewing me, and not me interviewing you.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the next switch hats for a minute.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. But given this is your absolute metty year,

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Speaker 1: off the top of my head, if you went around

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Speaker 1: the capital cities of Australia and said most famous crimes,

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Speaker 1: I'll say from Sydney, the probably the most famous crime,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure you know it is the shark arm murder.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that and Graham Thorne.

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Speaker 1: I guess Graham Thorn, which I wrote about in my

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Speaker 1: book on the Opera House, which is an amazing story

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Speaker 1: one day. In fact, you know, if you ever let

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Speaker 1: me back on your show, I know that story backwards

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Speaker 1: and forwards could go to do that you're on in

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Speaker 1: the Opera House, the shark murder. So those two Graham

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Speaker 1: Thorne and the shark hm murder in Melbourne, would it

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Speaker 1: be the one you've just what's the most famous crime?

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Speaker 2: The case of Lady Ryler. Fascinating. It's a great dinner

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Speaker 2: party story that we've just told to each other. But

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Speaker 2: it's not famous. It's not famous. It's really something that

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Speaker 2: was really only known to a few hundred people. But

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Speaker 2: in recent years I did dig it up and write

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Speaker 2: about it, and beyond that it's not famous at all.

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Speaker 2: Probably the most famous in Melbourne, Oh, notorious Easy Street?

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Speaker 2: Which is which Easy Street murders? Two young women killed

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Speaker 2: in Easy Street, Collingwood in nineteen seventy seven and forty

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Speaker 2: eight years later. That is only last year the Victorian

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Speaker 2: police are caused to be arrested in Rome a Greek

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Speaker 2: Australian citizen. And it's Australian citizen, a Greek extraction who's

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Speaker 2: been brought back to Australia from Rome where he was

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Speaker 2: briefly visiting and was arrested at the airport. He's been

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Speaker 2: brought back and he is facing committal proceedings.

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Speaker 1: How very odd that in Sydney, like I read, you know,

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Speaker 1: I devour the news. How very odd the north of

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Speaker 1: the Murray and I'm connected to the news. I never

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Speaker 1: heard of that one. Tell me to move on. I'll say,

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Speaker 1: let's say Adelaide, the most famous will.

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Speaker 2: Be the Beaumont Mons, followed by the family, the whole

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Speaker 2: what they call the family killings of all the young men. Well,

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Speaker 2: the snow the Snow Town's another one. Yet Adelaide's full

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Speaker 2: of it?

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Speaker 1: Really okay? So well? Adelaide, known as the city of

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Speaker 1: Churches and strange murders, go to Perth. They're not a

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Speaker 1: Claremont killer.

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Speaker 2: Claremont killer, and there was also some very I think

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Speaker 2: they're bent coppers over there. There's some very shady things

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Speaker 2: in Perth involving police and crooks. The Mickelburg stitch up,

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Speaker 2: the Perth Mint was robbed of go and then these

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Speaker 2: crooks were who probably did it, were framed with it

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Speaker 2: anyway by some tough bent coppers, one of whom was

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Speaker 2: later blown up by a bike. He's literally blown to

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Speaker 2: bits with a bomb Jellig Knight attached to his car.

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Speaker 2: There's some pretty good, pretty good crimes in Perth.

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Speaker 1: But what I did I did Kim Beasley's biography in

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Speaker 1: the late nineties, and Kim grew up in Claremont, so

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Speaker 1: I think that's why I'm familiar with the Claremont murders.

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Speaker 1: What about Darwin Brizzie and Hobart.

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Speaker 2: Brizzie's got its share well. One that jumps out, of

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Speaker 2: course is the Fine Cotton ringing, but it involved the

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Speaker 2: people who who did get people murdered.

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Speaker 1: Did anybody in Fine Cotton ever do time or.

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Speaker 2: Was it only that I thought they did? Who was

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Speaker 2: a Hayden Hitana the trainer Robert North who was a bloke.

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Speaker 2: I know he's not very well at the minute. He's

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Speaker 2: a bird smuggler among other things. Very funny, interesting man.

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Speaker 2: He did not a lot of time, but he did

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Speaker 2: time in Boggo Road. And a fellow called John Gillespie

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Speaker 2: who died only eight weeks ago in Melbourne. He was

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Speaker 2: he was a con man and a crook and he

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Speaker 2: died just the other I think he had fifteen children

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Speaker 2: with three wives. Something ridiculous, as you do.

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Speaker 1: What about Darwin and Hobart gets thing?

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Speaker 2: As you know. The Folconeo case in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: is a big one. Of course I didno got my baby,

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Speaker 2: which of course the Dingo did. And what we have

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Speaker 2: to then not that one was not a crime, No,

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Speaker 2: not a crime misunders a crime against Lindy Chamberlain, perpetrated

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Speaker 2: by the local police, politicians and ultimately the judicial.

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Speaker 1: Do you have strong theories on that one?

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Speaker 2: Oh? The bloody dogs did it? I mean I've seen

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Speaker 2: I've seen a dog pull a crossbred you, a crossbreed

360
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Speaker 2: us only you know, would weigh two of them? Would

361
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Speaker 2: weigh what you do? Pull a big crossbreed you along

362
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Speaker 2: by the ear like a rag doll? They are tremendously strong.

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Speaker 2: And if you doubt that, look at Husky's pulling sleds,

364
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Speaker 2: you know, sleds way down with enormous weights.

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Speaker 1: Because we're in an absolute minefield here, I'll the delicately

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Speaker 1: tiptoe out.

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Speaker 2: What about Hobart, Ah, doctor Rory, the American who chopped

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Speaker 2: his wife into like seventy two bits and fetter down

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Speaker 2: the plug hole and I think it blocked the plumbing.

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Speaker 1: Was it a yacht?

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Speaker 2: No, that's another one. That's another one that is controversial.

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Speaker 2: That was Chapman, the death of doctor Bob Chapman or

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Speaker 2: mister Bob Chapman.

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Speaker 1: Somebody wrote to me not long ago about the murder

375
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Speaker 1: on the yacht. Yes, gave me box and dice, saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was a massive miscarriage of joh they're

377
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Speaker 1: very keen on them, like ten years of investigations awaited,

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Speaker 1: you know. For that one. I don't and I don't

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Speaker 1: know anything about it. I just remember thinking, wow.

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Speaker 2: I'd never heard of It's controversial. The wife or the

381
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Speaker 2: facto wife. It was a sort of a broken down

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Speaker 2: Hobart socialite. She came from one of the old old

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Speaker 2: eighteen o three Hobart families and she'd run out of

384
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Speaker 2: money and she'd lived reasonably humbly, but it would appear

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Speaker 2: and she was convicted that she set up her partner's

386
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Speaker 2: untimely demise out on the yacht. But there's very strong

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Speaker 2: emotions about it on both sides.

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Speaker 1: The other one that again from Sydney, that I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you know, and I remember I know a fair bit

390
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Speaker 1: about it because I was a young man, very young

391
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Speaker 1: man at the time. But you'll know much better than me.

392
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Speaker 1: The extortion attempt on Quantus where they said there's a

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Speaker 1: bomb on board and if you don't, if you don't

394
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Speaker 1: give us money, we'll blow it up that one, or

395
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Speaker 1: we won't tell you where it is. And somehow or

396
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: other Newport Beach in Sydney was involved. And because my

397
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: family's had a long hat for the last hundred years,

398
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Speaker 1: has had a holiday house there, I think as a

399
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Speaker 1: young fellow, my ears pricked up that Newport was somehow

400
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Speaker 1: involved in this crime of the century.

401
00:23:58,280 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 2: What was that?

402
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: The combie? What was that case?

403
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 2: I look, I think it involved. I think it involves

404
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 2: some pretty good gangsters and racing identities that one. But

405
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: I might be wrong, as there's a couple of crimes

406
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 2: involving aircraft. One of them was where Birdie Kid got

407
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 2: himself smug put onto an aeroplane in a crate, so

408
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: that I think it was he or one of his

409
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 2: one of his partners in crime, and his idea was

410
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 2: he's going to break out of the crate in the

411
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Speaker 2: hold of the aircraft during the flight and break into

412
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 2: the crate next to it, which is full of used

413
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: cash and good Somebody, somebody noticed something wrong as they

414
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 2: were loading it, perhaps noticed his finger sticking out at

415
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 2: the top or something, and they were foiled. But it

416
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 2: was a terrific plot, wonderful plot, great plot.

417
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Speaker 1: But I only think if you were at thirty thousand

418
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Speaker 1: feet and you were in a crate in the cargo hole,

419
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: it'd be cold and not a lot of oxygen.

420
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Speaker 2: That's what I did think about that. I don't think

421
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 2: i'd want to do it. But maybe it was a

422
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 2: short haul or I don't know, I'm not sure of

423
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 2: the technical details, but maybe it wasn't going to be

424
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 2: a long flight or necessarily that high.

425
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: How well known in Melbourne, which I presume most of

426
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: your listeners are from, how well known is the shark

427
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: arm murder?

428
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 2: I think people of my vintage have possibly read a

429
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: bit about it, but I'm the sort of guy that

430
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: will have read a lot of things. I think it's

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Speaker 2: sufficiently old that it's new again and that you could

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Speaker 2: easily tackle it again. Yeah, well, I like doing Ben

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Speaker 2: Hall or whatever. It's well worth doing.

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Speaker 1: You know again, I read about it, I think ten

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Speaker 1: years ago, and I think a book has just come

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Speaker 1: out about it, because I was interested to see that

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Speaker 1: I was quoted I think on the cover or frets.

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Speaker 1: But yes, the Shark Murder.

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Speaker 2: The Shark Murder is a good one. So I hope

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00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 2: that as you keep doing books and you're only a

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00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 2: youngster at sixty four, a Beatles song and all that,

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Speaker 2: that over the next twenty years you might include some

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Speaker 2: of these crime stories.

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Speaker 1: Well, next time you have me on, I want to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about Ned Kelly, because I wrote a

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Speaker 1: book on Ned Kelly and he could fill a book

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Speaker 1: and he did.

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Speaker 2: He did, feel phil He's feeled a lot, and they're

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00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 2: not all funny, but there are some funny and very

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Speaker 2: touching stories about Ned Kelly.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me on, and thank you for

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Speaker 1: promoting my book on Wearied Dunlock, and it is called

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Speaker 1: the courageous life of Wearied Unlock, a.

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Speaker 2: Very good title by Peter fitz Simons, who is a

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Speaker 2: prolific author and great Australian in his in his own quiet.

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Speaker 1: Way, You're more than kin.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, see you mate, Thanks for listening. Life and

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Speaker 2: Crimes is a Sunday Herald Sun production for true crime Australia.

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Speaker 2: Our producer is Johnty Burton. For my columns, features and more,

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Speaker 2: go to Heroldsun dot com dot au forward slash andrew

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00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 2: rule one word. For advertising inquiries, go to news podcasts

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00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 2: sold at news dot com dot au. That is all

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00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: one word news pod casts sold And if you want

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00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: further information about this episode, links are in the description