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Speaker 1: We all want options, and that's what adaptability gives us.

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Speaker 1: It gives us a runway for more options. It's a

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Speaker 1: liberating mindset shift when you're able to engage with signals

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Speaker 1: of change and anticipate and influence an outcome instead of

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Speaker 1: waiting for change to punch you in the face. It's like,

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Speaker 1: how can I take control of this moment and what

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Speaker 1: can I influence to get where I want to go?

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Speaker 2: Do you ever worry about what the future holds? Honestly,

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Speaker 2: if you answered nah, not really to that question, I

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Speaker 2: can't envy you. I'd love to know what that's like.

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Speaker 2: I used to work with this Pentecostal guy, happiest dude ever,

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Speaker 2: didn't worry about anything because as far as he is concerned, Nah,

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Speaker 2: God's got it all sorted out. In some ways, I

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Speaker 2: kind of envy that, And it makes sense because an

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Speaker 2: antidote to the varying levels of existential fear that we

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Speaker 2: as humans face from time to time is incredibly appealing

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Speaker 2: for me. However, the antidote to those uncomfortable feelings is action.

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Speaker 2: One way it can be to start in the form

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Speaker 2: of asking some questions. For example, how could I handle

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Speaker 2: the challenges that I fear are coming and what can

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Speaker 2: I do to prepare for them? Now? In short, how

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Speaker 2: will I do the other thing humans are really good at,

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Speaker 2: which is adapting. My guest today has a couple of

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Speaker 2: answers to both of those questions. I found them to

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Speaker 2: be incredibly valuable. I know you will too. I just

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Speaker 2: need to take a break back in a second. Goody,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. This is better than yesterday, making

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Speaker 2: it better every episode since two thy thirteen. You're gonna

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Speaker 2: hear something that will make today better than yesterday. My

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Speaker 2: name's Osha Ginsburg. I'm a podcaster. I'm a best selling

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Speaker 2: author and award winning documentary maker, and I am here

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Speaker 2: with you in your ears doing whatever you're doing with

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Speaker 2: you right now. If you'd like to come do something

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Speaker 2: with me. Sunday eleventh of May is a part of

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Speaker 2: the Comedy Festival in Sydney. Story Club returns to the

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Speaker 2: Comedy Store at Moore Park in Sydney. Our show is

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Speaker 2: amazing this month. We do the storytelling show every month.

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Speaker 2: The lineup is epic and that's what I reckon. Hannah

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Speaker 2: Riley bled Joslyn from Mighty Carmod's Gracie Otto, Zoe Norton

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Speaker 2: Lodge and myself. The theme that we are taking on

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Speaker 2: that evening not what I signed up for. And get

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Speaker 2: tickets right now story club Live dot com. Put the

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Speaker 2: link in the show notes. That's also where the substack is.

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Speaker 2: Osha Ginsberg got substack dot com. But if you want

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Speaker 2: to just email me piece a piece, Sendosh your email

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Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. Love to know which thing is show,

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Speaker 2: Love to know what you do well. I'd love to

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Speaker 2: know what we're doing together right now, you and me?

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Speaker 2: What are we doing? What are we doing? So yesterday

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Speaker 2: She's fantastic. Andrea Clark is joining me today. She's a

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Speaker 2: former television news journalist and a humanitarian aid worker now

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Speaker 2: turned work futurist. Her job is to help people anticipate

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Speaker 2: change and when change comes, create the kind of futures

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Speaker 2: that they want. And she does that through writing books,

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Speaker 2: through speaking, and through coaching and writing articles and things

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Speaker 2: like this now. Her first book was called Future Fit,

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Speaker 2: How to Stay Relevant and Competitive in the Future of Work.

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Speaker 2: R won a massive award Australian Business Book of the

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Speaker 2: Year twenty nineteen. Her latest book is called Adapt Mastering

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Speaker 2: Change in four Steps. I love things that have steps

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Speaker 2: don't worry, we get to all four of them. You'll

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Speaker 2: hear those steps today, along with some excellent examples of

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Speaker 2: navigating change in her own life, and many more tools

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Speaker 2: which I found really valuable for ensuring growth and opportunity

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Speaker 2: and meaningful progress in your life no matter what the

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Speaker 2: future throws at us. Enjoy this conversation with Andrea Clark.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for coming, Andrew, How are you going?

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Speaker 1: I'm really good. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: You are you were a smarter person than me because

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Speaker 2: you managed to get out of Telly at a point

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Speaker 2: I'd love to know you were. You were a foreign correspondent,

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Speaker 2: you were a kid, and you went Washington. That looks

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Speaker 2: like it was the place, and then you found your

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Speaker 2: way there and it's a big deal being over there.

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Speaker 2: Which presidents were you there underneath?

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Speaker 1: End of Bush and forty three and Obama forty three,

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Speaker 1: forty four?

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Speaker 2: Wow, so very very interesting time to be in American politics.

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Speaker 2: And at some point you went, actually, no, I'm done here.

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Speaker 2: What was it that made you say no, I'm done here?

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Speaker 2: Was it you could see where the business model was going?

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Speaker 2: Or there was something about what was happening in the

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Speaker 2: industry in the you know what television on news was

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Speaker 2: particularly that wasn't up for you.

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Speaker 1: One day I was walking down K Street.

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Speaker 2: It was the bureau on K Street was.

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Speaker 1: Bureau is I was walking into the Algersier English Bureau

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Speaker 1: on K Street, which is where all the lobbyist lobby

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Speaker 1: firms are essentially, so pretty kind of center of the

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Speaker 1: universe really if you're in DC. And for the first

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Speaker 1: time in my career, I didn't pick up a copy

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Speaker 1: of The Times because I was looking at the headlines

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Speaker 1: on my BlackBerry, remember those? And I had a moment.

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Speaker 1: I stopped and I thought, this is really interesting. This

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Speaker 1: signal of change is my own behavior. So what if

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Speaker 1: what if this behavior scales? What if ten thousand people

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Speaker 1: stop picking up the paper? What if a minion people

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Speaker 1: stop picking up the paper? What's going to happen? So

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Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting because I was a journal

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Speaker 1: being paid to produce content that as a consumer I

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Speaker 1: was not prepared to pay for. And I thought, this

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Speaker 1: is that moment. This is a really this is confronting

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Speaker 1: because I can see that the business model of news

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Speaker 1: is failing right in front of me part of it,

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Speaker 1: and my behavior is the signal of change that I

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Speaker 1: need to pay attention to I had about one hundred

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Speaker 1: feet before I got to the bureau.

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Speaker 2: It's thirty meters. You did spend a lot of time there.

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to have a life translation.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, not long. I didn't have long, and I

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Speaker 1: had all this. You know, there's always anxiety going through

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Speaker 1: your body before you get to the newsroom because you

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Speaker 1: don't know what you're going to be thrown into for

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Speaker 1: the day. Right So in that thirty minute meters, I

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Speaker 1: started running scenarios, what does this look like? What does

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Speaker 1: life look like for me in ten years? If I'm

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Speaker 1: already doing twelve hour shifts, turning around two or three

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Speaker 1: big stories a day, like two two and a half

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Speaker 1: minute stories, They're big stories. And I'm earning less than

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Speaker 1: three hundred US dollars a day, and I'm working six

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Speaker 1: days a week. I was already my body was already crashing,

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Speaker 1: And I thought, what does this look like in ten

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Speaker 1: years time? What if?

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Speaker 2: What if? What if?

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Speaker 1: And I didn't like any of the scenarios that were

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Speaker 1: being presented in my head, So I thought, now is

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Speaker 1: a time to make a call on it. And by

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Speaker 1: that and I'd been on the road for maybe twelve

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Speaker 1: or fourteen years in a number of different countries, and

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Speaker 1: I absolutely I was addicted to TV because you're part

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Speaker 1: of an ultra high performance team delivering against all odds

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Speaker 1: every single day. That's a very addictive state of mind

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Speaker 1: to be in. And I think it took me. You know,

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Speaker 1: there were a few small things that happened, but essentially

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Speaker 1: that was a catalyst to me saying I have to

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Speaker 1: let it go, like I have to get out of

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Speaker 1: this and move move into something else to protect, to

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Speaker 1: kind of future proof myself.

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Speaker 2: The change that is the hardest is the change that

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Speaker 2: affects our self identity. I do not I write an

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Speaker 2: electric Harley Davidson and that's the fucking greatest motorcycle ever.

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Speaker 2: It's unbelieved.

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Speaker 1: You can see that.

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Speaker 2: It's cool as shit, all right, yeah, but Harley guys

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Speaker 2: are like what it's like going to a brothel for

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Speaker 2: a hargus Like, because that's literally what a guy said

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Speaker 2: to me at first thing that came to mind. But

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Speaker 2: see it, that's what guy said to me. To tack

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Speaker 2: increase because not because it's a fast and more efficient,

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Speaker 2: better design motorbike, there is brand identity. It is I

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Speaker 2: am I because I own all these Harley T shirts

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Speaker 2: and belts and this for five motorcycles in my driveway.

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Speaker 2: The way I feel about myself is affected by a

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Speaker 2: choice that you've made. And now I don't want this

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Speaker 2: choice to be thrust upon me because now it changes

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Speaker 2: how I identify. I've got the beerd I've got the

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Speaker 2: T shirt, I've got a roast tatoo tatoo? Right, So

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Speaker 2: how did you navigate that? This self identity, which, as

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Speaker 2: far as I can gather, was a part of you

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Speaker 2: from not even a teenager, like you knew what you

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Speaker 2: wanted to do from a little kid. And now here

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Speaker 2: you are based with having to deconstruct that and then

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Speaker 2: maybe rebuild something that you don't know what it looks like.

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Speaker 1: It's all about agency. If you've got a high sense

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Speaker 1: of agency, you can wear your beard and all the

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Speaker 1: all the gear and beyond an electric hut. As I'm concerned,

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Speaker 1: and I was very attached to it, but it was

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Speaker 1: more about how do I convert this into an opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Humans don't like change. We are addicted to sameness. We

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Speaker 1: love our routine. That's why we get the same coffee

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Speaker 1: every single day.

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Speaker 2: It keeps us alive. Like we know keep these these

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Speaker 2: particular precursors to wherever the cow became. They are usually

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Speaker 2: in grassy bits totally, and they can't run very fast,

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Speaker 2: and they're usually there at this time of day, so

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Speaker 2: we go there again. They are like routine has been

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Speaker 2: a part of what's helped to survive.

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Speaker 1: And we associate change with loss. Yes, loss of status,

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Speaker 1: loss of energy. There's no people, that's right. We associated

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Speaker 1: with loss. And what I think is really interesting is

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Speaker 1: that with time and distance, usually only with time and

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Speaker 1: distance can we see the upside of change. And I've

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Speaker 1: always backed myself deeply to know that no matter what

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Speaker 1: is changing, I will be able to absorb that and

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Speaker 1: come out stronger. And so in the first time I

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Speaker 1: ever went to Washington, I was about twelve, my dad

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Speaker 1: took us on a family trip and that was like you.

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Speaker 2: Could have lobbied for dad. Florida is a little further out,

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Speaker 2: Disney World is right there, Yeah, like, can we go

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Speaker 2: somewhere fun.

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Speaker 1: I knew that day that I don't know, I didn't

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Speaker 1: know how I was going to do it, but I

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Speaker 1: knew that day that I was going to move to Washington.

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Speaker 1: And you have a great career, and so for me.

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Speaker 1: I think there was less identity tied up with it,

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Speaker 1: a more agency. How can I turn this moment into

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Speaker 1: an opportunity for me that's going to take me further?

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Speaker 1: And the next job I got was working in an

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Speaker 1: international aid organization and showing up to Bagdad and turning

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Speaker 1: up to Georgia when the Russians were invading. So I

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Speaker 1: didn't I never doubted my ability to use that moment

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Speaker 1: to move on in a really meaningful way.

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Speaker 2: How does one start to pick away from that, from

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Speaker 2: that sense of identity and try to release that a

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Speaker 2: little bit to be open to little new possibilities.

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Speaker 1: I would encourage every I'm listening and watching to ask

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Speaker 1: themselves what they believe to be true ten years ago

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Speaker 1: that is no longer true. I think about something that

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Speaker 1: you believe to but you're really attached to you were

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Speaker 1: certain about ten years ago. Ten years ago, I was

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Speaker 1: certain I'd never have oat cappuccinos, you know, I thought

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Speaker 1: that would have been totally ridiculous. But any useful in

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Speaker 1: future is professional. Futures say that any useful statement about

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Speaker 1: the future should at first appear ridiculous, And we need

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Speaker 1: to understand that we are capable of drastic amounts of change.

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Speaker 1: So if you reflect back in order to look forward,

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Speaker 1: that usually can help you understand how you've unlearnt a

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Speaker 1: very tightly held behavior or belief system that is simply

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Speaker 1: no longer fit for purpose for where you're going.

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Speaker 2: When it came to taking the next step away from

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Speaker 2: news and into aid, when I think about how you

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Speaker 2: might have done that, because it's something that I've had

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Speaker 2: to do recently with the television stuff, that it was

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Speaker 2: take a few steps back until all that's left is

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Speaker 2: the values that I have around what I want to

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Speaker 2: do with the time I'm not spending sleeping and being

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Speaker 2: with my family. And then in using those values as

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Speaker 2: a direction, which way can I go? Which were the

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Speaker 2: values that were similar between the news gig and the

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Speaker 2: foreign aid gig.

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Speaker 1: Being anchored in truth and being anchored in lifting others,

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Speaker 1: even in the very small ways that I can do that.

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Speaker 1: So I saw a complete ability to replicate what I

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Speaker 1: was doing every day in journalism, finding the truth and

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Speaker 1: sharing the truth and helping others. You know, I could

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Speaker 1: land in bagdad talk to people, raise funds for people

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Speaker 1: who really needed it by sharing the truth with potential

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Speaker 1: donors that include a usaid that is now being dismantled.

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Speaker 1: It's a whole different podcast. Being anchored in truth, I

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Speaker 1: was that is something that's been That was why I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a journalist because I knew my parents

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Speaker 1: were going to get divorced well before they did well before.

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Speaker 1: And that was probably a huge part in driving me

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Speaker 1: to want to be a journalist because as a child,

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting around with my two sisters and we had

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Speaker 1: a very adventurous childhood, but the whole time I would

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Speaker 1: constantly be looking at Mum, looking at Dad, looking at

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Speaker 1: my sisters and thinking the truth. The truth is not

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Speaker 1: happening in that direction. The truth's not happening in that direction,

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Speaker 1: up downside ways, like no one's telling the truth here,

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Speaker 1: and all I really want is the truth. And that

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Speaker 1: was a huge driver to me wanting to be a

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Speaker 1: journalist because if you're values, decisions, beliefs, if nothing's anchored

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Speaker 1: around the truth, what is there, Like, how do you

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Speaker 1: move forward in life unless you've been confronting the reality.

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Speaker 2: That can be very very difficult. However, when it's like

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Speaker 2: as we've seen in climate in the least in any world,

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Speaker 2: because the truth is disruptive it's there's enough of it

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Speaker 2: that you can be exposed to give you an idea.

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Speaker 2: But if we just keep going, yeah, we just want

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Speaker 2: to block it out.

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Speaker 1: Of course, the truth is very inconvenient. It's very disruptive,

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Speaker 1: especially when you've got to blow your own life up,

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Speaker 1: which I've done on a number of occasions through different

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Speaker 1: career transitions. But it was, you know, I deliberately and

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Speaker 1: intentionally went towards what was changing, because the truth of

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Speaker 1: staying where I was would have been far more painful

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Speaker 1: ten years down the track, Like if I had stayed

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Speaker 1: in journalism, I would have been hospitalized with burnout, probably

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Speaker 1: on several occasions.

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Speaker 2: I've spoken to two journalists that have had that happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I did, Like I had my

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Speaker 1: own version of burnout, which is pretty pretty harsh and

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Speaker 1: it's really disruptive to say fuck it, Like I've had

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Speaker 1: this seventeen year phenomenal career as and on air news

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Speaker 1: repert but now I'm going to start my own business,

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Speaker 1: or now I'm going to do this. And then for

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Speaker 1: two years I was borrowing grocery money off my best

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Speaker 1: friend and my mum without telling either of them because

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Speaker 1: I couldn't pay a rent, like that's disruptive, that really

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Speaker 1: sucks and it's not fun. But I knew that in

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Speaker 1: terms of a job, I knew that I could go

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Speaker 1: and get a safe job at a bank, or I

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Speaker 1: could actually go after what I really wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: And I did a master's degree in defense studies, and

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Speaker 1: so I always wanted to be a walk correspondent growing up,

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Speaker 1: and so it wasn't a massive stretch for me to

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Speaker 1: take a media related job in an international aid organization

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Speaker 1: which would require me to go to conflict zone. So

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Speaker 1: that was something I always wanted to do, that was

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Speaker 1: true to me, so I went after it.

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Speaker 2: One of the things we think about fear about change

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Speaker 2: is we won't be able to cope. This is why

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Speaker 2: we fear it. I won't be fine if I don't

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Speaker 2: have my thing, my latte, yes, or whatever, I won't

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Speaker 2: be okay. However, if we are aware of our ability

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Speaker 2: to cope, and trust in our ability to cope and adapt,

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Speaker 2: which we have proven because we are here today only

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Speaker 2: because of our ability of copening it out. Both her

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Speaker 2: parents were refugees at one point and mum, in I

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Speaker 2: think forty three she was kids was a little child

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Speaker 2: that she remembered. They walked from Cowanus in Lithuania or Villians,

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Speaker 2: I can't remember which one to Germany and Mum talked

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Speaker 2: about you know that, Yes, they were literally getting strafed

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Speaker 2: by Allied aircraft who thought they were German and people

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Speaker 2: were dying, but she said people still cooked dinner. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: people still played games with their kids. People stopped and

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Speaker 2: made families. You know, the babies got born on the

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Speaker 2: road and they just adapt like this is life now.

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Speaker 1: Human's quite extraordinary when you think about it. I went

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Speaker 1: into Tubilisi as the Russians were leaving in about two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight, so shit was still on fire. It

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Speaker 1: was full on and my cameraman, Brand, who's just so sensational,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're both were like, this is a really

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Speaker 1: this is quite a serious situation, and we're talking to

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Speaker 1: people who are seeking refuge in burnt out kindergarten. The

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Speaker 1: one thing that I do recall in that moment was

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Speaker 1: just experiencing abject poverty in a way that the average

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Speaker 1: Astralian doesn't appreciate, can't ever appreciate. And I remember that

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Speaker 1: moment being in to belie See with Brent, and I

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Speaker 1: think you know, you've got to know when to intervene

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Speaker 1: in the script, like you've got to know when to

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Speaker 1: interrupt that pattern of behavior. And I remember we spent

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Speaker 1: a day in an orphanage just outside of to blie See,

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Speaker 1: which was the saddest thing I've ever seen in my life.

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Speaker 1: And I remember walking outside. It was an orphanage for

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Speaker 1: mentally and physically disabled kids and a war. So you're

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Speaker 1: talking to these kids. They couldn't be evacuated, talking to

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Speaker 1: these kids and that the parents will drop them off

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Speaker 1: flucky year ago they all thought their parents were still

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Speaker 1: coming to pick them up. And so you're having these

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Speaker 1: conversations with these kids. They're like, you know, my Mum's

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Speaker 1: going to pick me up today kind of thing. And

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Speaker 1: you're like, wow, just hold it together. And I remember

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Speaker 1: walking out of that orphanage in sitting down with Brent

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Speaker 1: and was silence, and the phone rang. It was my boss.

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Speaker 1: It was a fairly amazing human and he said, we

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Speaker 1: need you to get on a plane from tables and

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Speaker 1: go to Kabul. And I said, no, said, here's what

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Speaker 1: I'm doing. I'm getting on a plane. I'm coming back

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Speaker 1: to Washington, and I do not want to speak to

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Speaker 1: anyone for ten days, because I knew unless I processed

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Speaker 1: everything that we were seeing on that trip, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: going to be useful to anyone else. And you have

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Speaker 1: to know when to interrupt that pattern of behavior that

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Speaker 1: you might have to take time out to reflect, to pause,

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Speaker 1: to process, to cry, to do whatever you need to

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Speaker 1: do and to absorb that change. Otherwise you're not going

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Speaker 1: to be able to adapt effectively to what's coming next.

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Speaker 1: So every time I've been in a situation that has

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Speaker 1: caused me distress, I've always given myself time to recover privately,

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Speaker 1: whether that's even on an aircraft for a seven hour flight,

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Speaker 1: just the tears, like let it all out because there's

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Speaker 1: nowhere else to process this on my journey.

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Speaker 2: You're uncommon in your profession for doing that, because some

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Speaker 2: of the two men whom I've spoken to that have

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Speaker 2: gotten to trouble, they just went because the next thing

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Speaker 2: was so stimulating. They didn't have time to think about

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Speaker 2: the sad kids. They just now, I can hear bullets,

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Speaker 2: I don't have to think and stop. But then they

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Speaker 2: do that for thirty six months straight. Yeah, marking a shadows.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and right, you know, regulating your own emotions. I

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Speaker 1: think I don't know. I mean, I'm sure if I

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Speaker 1: think about it all think of why. But I always

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Speaker 1: had a sense that that was really because I'm deeply sensitive.

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Speaker 1: People look at me and they think you're a type

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Speaker 1: you've got all under control, but I am. I feel

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Speaker 1: as though I'm a deeply sensitive person who I feel

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Speaker 1: things deeply, and I've always and sort of losing myself

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Speaker 1: in music has been my big part of my therapy,

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Speaker 1: just to process, and there's been plenty of balling my

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Speaker 1: eyes out on planes. I cried halfway to Hawaii when

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Speaker 1: I move myself to Washington. So I got on the

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Speaker 1: plane thinking I've got no idea what I'm doing, but

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Speaker 1: I know that my body is moving in the right direction.

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Speaker 1: I know I'm going in the right direction, but I

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Speaker 1: need but it's still upsetting for me to leave everything.

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Speaker 1: So I think, just we all need to know what

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Speaker 1: is that thing that's highly personal to us? What do

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Speaker 1: we need in the process of change when we are

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Speaker 1: being disrupted, when we because change is so emotional and

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Speaker 1: it's so personal, So what do we need in those

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Speaker 1: moments of change to level out and free up the

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Speaker 1: brain space and the energy that we need for what's

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Speaker 1: coming next. Because I knew unless I, unless I processed

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Speaker 1: all of that emotion, I'm not going to be able

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Speaker 1: to land in Washington and look for a job if

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Speaker 1: I'm still carrying with me, you know, the emotion that

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Speaker 1: comes with moving and totally dismantling your life.

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Speaker 2: I love it. I love that you got on the

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Speaker 2: plane without a job I had.

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Speaker 1: Are you ready? First of all, my news directorate walked

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Speaker 1: up behind me. This is why I left, walked up

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Speaker 1: behind me one day and he said, if you were

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Speaker 1: watching five PM News, go to air. And he said

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Speaker 1: to me, I know how it is. I won't name him.

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Speaker 1: He said, if you ever get pregnant, I'm never going

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Speaker 1: to send you on a good story again. And I thought,

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Speaker 1: that's Mike Cue. I always knew, I know, right, And

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Speaker 1: do you know what he didn't know that. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know for years later. But I wasn't capable of having kids, right,

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Speaker 1: So imagine if I knew that in the moment. So

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Speaker 1: but I knew. My instinct is so strong. In that moment,

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Speaker 1: I thought, that's Mike Cue. I've always wanted to move

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Speaker 1: to Washington, and so I resigned, bought myself on one

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Speaker 1: way ticket. I called Rick Carter at Channel seven. I said, Rick,

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Speaker 1: I said, can you sponsor me? Can seven sponsor me?

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Speaker 1: Give me a visa to go a J one visa

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Speaker 1: to go over there. I'd five hundred dollars to my name.

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Speaker 1: I land in Washington. I go to Thompson Markwood Hall.

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Speaker 1: It's a boarding house for interns. And I had five

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Speaker 1: business days to get a job because I had five hundred.

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Speaker 1: I had five hundred dollars, right, I'm like budgeting one

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars a day. And so I saw a wake

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Speaker 1: up the next morning and I'm like, it's really quiet

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Speaker 1: in DC. It's Memorial Day weekend, so it's a public,

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Speaker 1: public holiday. Awesome, Mondays a public holidays.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's gone, everyone's all left.

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Speaker 1: So I've got four days. And so I wake up

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Speaker 1: the next morning and I cold called every foreign bureau

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Speaker 1: in Washington until robbed me or picked up the phone

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Speaker 1: at Ruter's. And so I went into roaders and started working.

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Speaker 1: But no money, like no money, no job, really, no contacts, nothing.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, but I knew I was going to

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Speaker 1: be all right. So I'm going to take control and

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Speaker 1: influence what I can influence and move on.

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Speaker 2: Taking a moment away from Andrew. If you're enjoying the show,

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Speaker 2: please send it to a friend and like, subscribe, follow

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Speaker 2: wherever you can. Back in a moment, we talked about

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Speaker 2: our parents and like both I said, both my parents

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Speaker 2: were doctors, and I was, you know, getting ready for

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Speaker 2: this thinking about, well, when did I see my parents

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Speaker 2: being adaptable or resilient? And you know, it's a really

434
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 2: interesting question when you think about where did I first

435
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: see my parents adapting to her not just a difficult thing,

436
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 2: but a crisis. And what did I learn from that?

437
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 2: And I didn't think about it until, you know, the

438
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 2: other day, and I was like, actually, I did learn

439
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 2: a lot from that. Your story though, Holy shit.

440
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: I mean I grew up in with a really dynamic

441
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: father who was really highly entrepreneurial. It was a pioneer.

442
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: When he was fifteen or sixteen, he borrowed money off

443
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: his girlfriend's parents and flew to Detroit and bought a

444
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: rig like an oil rig and a rig to to

445
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: basically bore water and started brought it back and started

446
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 1: running a trucking haulage business on his own. He's sixteen.

447
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: At sixteen, he grew up in a caravan that burnt

448
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 1: down in Melbourne. I mean he had he had it

449
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: really tough. But Dad has an extraordinary amount of agency

450
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: and demonstrated that from a very young age. And so

451
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 1: what was interesting to us growing up, the three of us,

452
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: was it daw was expecting three boys and he got

453
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 1: three girls. But he treated us just like there was

454
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: no gender drama in our family.

455
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 2: So he's not a news room. Come on, not.

456
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: A newsroom, No, definitely not. But so we grew up

457
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: on quad bikes, we grew up on farms. We're on

458
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: the Gold Coast. But I was born in gund to

459
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,239
Speaker 1: Windy and Dad had a cotton farm. One of his

460
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: businesses was a cotton farm, and so we grew.

461
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: Both and came in hand. So aren't they Are they

462
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: so a dumb thing to grow in Australia, honestly? I know.

463
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: So. So you're on the Goldie what part of the

464
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 1: Goldie Runaway Bay? So we were, we were like on

465
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: the first waterfront block, but Dad moved us up there

466
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: really young. So born in Gundy, love Gandhi, but left

467
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: really young. Dad was a serial entrepreneur and essentially retired

468
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: at thirty five, like retired really young because he did

469
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 1: very well. And he said to us, no one in

470
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: this family he is getting anything except for their education.

471
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 1: And he was very serious about that. So we got

472
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: an education. That was it from JC. But we grew

473
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: up being thrown off the back of the boat eighty

474
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: mile out to see it Merburton Reef. That's where we

475
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: that's why where I land to scuba dive. It was

476
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 1: like there was no paddy course. It was like literally

477
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: thrown over the back of the boat.

478
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: You know, get breath and you'll be fine. There's a rig,

479
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 2: there's whatever, and look like he's blowing your nose. If

480
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: it hurts, that's right, that's right. But we'll stop on

481
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 2: against the sixteenth.

482
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: And we grew up flying with dad. We grew up

483
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: and I think the story that I opened a book

484
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: with was life affirming to me about how I wanted

485
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: to run my life when I saw what happened.

486
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 2: So hang on your dad. He's got a trucking business

487
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 2: in trucking holiay, trucking hallage. So we're talking the kind

488
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 2: of trucks that people from overseas can't believe exist, the

489
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 2: kind of thing with three and four trailers like road trains,

490
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 2: train the thing yeah. Yeah, he can't drive them in

491
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: a city.

492
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: Definitely, not No, these are long, long range vehicles and

493
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: when they break down on a road in the middle

494
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: of nowhere, the only way to get them back on

495
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: track again is to literally land a light aircraft on

496
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 1: a piece of highway, drop off spare parts, and then

497
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: get going, which is why he got a pilot's license

498
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: in the first place. So we grew up in assess

499
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: two ten so like two in the front, two in

500
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: the back. Yeah, the two tens a six seter. He

501
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: actually flew that out from Hawaii, so I know, single engine,

502
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: fuel tank in the back seat, back up fuel. So yeah,

503
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: so we learned a lot. Dad was this ultimate role

504
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: model in having no limits, and I think the greatest

505
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: gift you can give a child is the gift of imagination.

506
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: You know. He used to throw maps over the dining

507
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: room table and say where do you want to go

508
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: on school holidays? And that is not just a great

509
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: opportunity for a young child, it's an opportunity to imagine.

510
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: It gives you agency to imagine what your future can

511
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: look like. And that's where it all started. But essentially,

512
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: so we grew up flying with Dad, and I opened

513
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: the book with a story that I think has a

514
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 1: lesson for everyone, and that is that we were he

515
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: was flying, flying us from Mare, from the cotton farm

516
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: into the Gold Coast. So we're in Assesson two ten,

517
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: We're at nine thousand feet and we have engine failure.

518
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: It's the only one engine on that one single engine. Yeah,

519
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: we all know something serious is happening. But the way

520
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: Dad responded in that moment said a lot about his

521
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: ability to adapt. And he very calmly and in a

522
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,479
Speaker 1: very composed manner, handed a map to my sister and

523
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: said finding a place to land while he workshopped the problem,

524
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: checking out the dash and figured out what was happening. Now,

525
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: he partially restarted that engine from memory. I think we

526
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: had twenty five percent power wasn't enough. So he's Dad

527
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,719
Speaker 1: right in front of us real time, working out how

528
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 1: much power do we have, how much fuel do we have?

529
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: What's the range? What's the range that we have because.

530
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: Now you're gliding, gliding you have a very limited amount

531
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 2: of time to safely get.

532
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: That that's right, what's the range that we have to

533
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: put this aircraft down in one piece? And it wasn't

534
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: IQ or EQ.

535
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 2: So intelligence quotion, which is a number from a long

536
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 2: time ago, and emotional quotion, which is in the last

537
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 2: twenty thirty years.

538
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, emotional intelligence. It wasn't IQ or EQ that helped

539
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: him land that plane in one piece. It was AQ.

540
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: It was his adaptability quotionent that ability to apply new

541
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: thinking to a new problem. And so he did all

542
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: this while looking up and out over the dash about

543
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: to where he was going to land. It was working

544
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: the problem.

545
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 2: Do you remember his voice? Was he quivering as was was.

546
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: He totally calm and collected? Yeah, because by this stage

547
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: Dad had about three thousand hours up. I went through

548
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: his log book with him six months ago to rehash

549
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: this story, and we all had very similar recollections of it.

550
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: But basically we glided for nine thousand feet and the

551
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: last two thousand feet we did like he was like

552
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: nose down because we couldn't miss the strip. So for

553
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: the last two thousand feet it was like rapid descent,

554
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: nose down, and he put it down safely and on

555
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: airfield on a remote farm, and the name of the

556
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: farm was called why Didja? And we're like, and now

557
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: the joke is, why did you land there? Because it

558
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,719
Speaker 1: was a bit of an emergency, but he put it

559
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: down safely, and the three of us were not nervous

560
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: at all. We had no anks because of the way

561
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: he because of his confidence to negotiate the unknown, and

562
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: he'd been training for change, because he had three thousand

563
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: hours up in the simulator and with instructors. It would

564
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: deliberately turn off the engine, he'd fly. That's your job

565
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: as a pilot to restart an engine, get it going.

566
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: But in that moment, and this is the lesson for

567
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: all of us, in that moment, I saw that adaptability

568
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: gave him options. We all want options, and that's what

569
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: adapted gives us. It gives us a runway for more options.

570
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: It's a liberating mindset shift when you when you're able

571
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: to engage with signals of change and anticipate and influence

572
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: an outcome instead of waiting for change to punch you

573
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: in the face. It's like, how can I take control

574
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: of this moment and what can I influence to get

575
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:19,959
Speaker 1: where I want to go?

576
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 2: I asked about his voice, because unfortunately his name has

577
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: been lost to time, but he was a master chief

578
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 2: Seal trainer, a mustive marine trainer in the US Army

579
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 2: in Vietnam, and he had this amazing line three words,

580
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: calm as contagious.

581
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.

582
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: It's such a good one as Yeah. I did the

583
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: same thing when I heard it. I wish I could

584
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: find his name. I've looked and found it, could not

585
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 2: find it. Calm is contagious because in that moment, when

586
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: the thing's sputtering and he's like, all my children are here,

587
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 2: I don't give.

588
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: A shit, all the three of them.

589
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 2: I've got kids. I don't care if they're alive. I'm fine. Yeah,

590
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 2: that's it. Yeah, that could have There's no point getting

591
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: upset that the engine is not working. There is a

592
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 2: very limited amount of energy and time to handle this.

593
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: You'd probably rather work on a solution than being upset

594
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 2: that it is, because you cannot change that it is.

595
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: And he said to us, he turned around and he said,

596
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: we're going to be all right, something like whatever I

597
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: ask you to do, I need you to do it.

598
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: We're like Andrew, but he was very calm and very composed.

599
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 2: We're going to be all right. If I ask you

600
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 2: to do I need.

601
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: I need you to do it. We're like JC. There's

602
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: nothing we'd rather do than follow your orders, right, in

603
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: this moment right now.

604
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: Your is probably better than mindset, yes.

605
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: But he was very calm and collected, and that is

606
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: the mindset of a pilot. All they do every day

607
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: is get in the simulator and practice what if scenarios,

608
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: and what that does is increase their mental flexibility. It

609
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: allows them to be better prepared for change. And that's

610
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: why we need to find our own form of simulator

611
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: and run the same scenario because that helps us be

612
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: better prepared for change.

613
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: And to use that situation. There's being adaptive, yeah, all right,

614
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: and then there's being reactive. Yes, why would we want

615
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: by saying, you know, like forcing ourselves to think about

616
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: the uncomfortable things that might happen and then figuring out

617
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: what we're going to do about them if they do,

618
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: gives us more options in that moment, would it be like?

619
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: To be adaptive is to have heaps more choices in

620
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: the moment of crisis, and to be reactive is like

621
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 2: I've got two options here, run or fight?

622
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: Well, I say to people, who would you have wanted

623
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: at the wheel in that moment where the engine fails?

624
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: Do you want someone who's panicking and reactive or do

625
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: you want someone who's ready. I want someone who's ready.

626
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: I want someone who's done three thousand hours in the simulator.

627
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: And when I talk about adaptability, I describe it like this,

628
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: because we all know what it's like to be on

629
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: a freeway at night driving and its raining, and you

630
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: can see the brake lights up ahead of you. You're

631
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: not going to wait to the last moment to hit

632
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: the brakes, argue, because that's the impact war. What you

633
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: want is the most amount of breaking distance you can

634
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: have between where you are now in those lights. And

635
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: so that breaking distance, for me is how I think

636
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: about adaptability. I want all the options I can because

637
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: when I see a signal of change over the horizon,

638
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: you know, five years goes by and all of a

639
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: sudden that changes right here. Like when I left journalism,

640
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: I think I did that ten years. I saw the signal,

641
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: and the signal for me was ten years away, but

642
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: so it changed my behavior in the presence. So when

643
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: the signal became a reality for a lot of my colleagues,

644
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: it was they had less options, way fewer options. But

645
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: I gave myself really eight I think about eight years

646
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: to make some good moves. So for me, adaptability is

647
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: about having a runway. It gives you more time to

648
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: respond in a way that gives you control over the outcome.

649
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 2: You can use as many aircraft analogies as you like.

650
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: I know I'm a total aviation don't invite me.

651
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 2: I'm a shocker. You need to listen to Midflight Brawl

652
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: with Nick Purdy and Luke Hegy.

653
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: I definitely do.

654
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: It's four or five years old now, right, and it's

655
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: a podcast about fights on planes.

656
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: Okay, interesting?

657
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: I actually love it.

658
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: I interviewed Captain Richard D. Krepne for this book who

659
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: landed the A three eighty The Quantity A three eighty

660
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: after they blew an engine out of Changey, Singapore. So

661
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: I spent nineteen minutes talking to Richard I can call

662
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: him Richard now. It was like I was so nervous.

663
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: I have not been more nervous to talk to anyone

664
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: because I just am such an aviation geek. And he said,

665
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: you know, what are you going to do when the

666
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: wind blows? Are you going to build a wall or

667
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: a windmill? And what was interesting talking to him was

668
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: that only two weeks before they blew that engine, he

669
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: was outside Oxfordshire with the Boeing engine with the Boeing

670
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: engineers talking about details around the engine, and I love

671
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: that obsession with curiosity, and that to me highlight it's

672
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: the role of learning and adaptability, because if you're not learning,

673
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: you can't adapt. So he was constantly curious about how

674
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: the plane worked because he needed to know the limitations,

675
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: he needed to know what it was capable of. So

676
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: in that moment he was prepared for He was much

677
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: better prepared for change because he was in the detail.

678
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: So that's a really interesting interview.

679
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 2: Of like when the wind blows, are you're going to

680
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 2: build a wall or a windmill? Build a windmill? It's

681
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: like I think, when the when the wave crashes, what

682
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 2: are you going to do? You're going to get dumped?

683
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 2: You gonna That is the same thing, And it's like, doctor.

684
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 1: We all want to have control over the outcome. There's

685
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: nothing worse than feeling like change is happening to me.

686
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: I'd rather it happened for me and have some at

687
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: least with me, that's with me, have some say in it. Yeah,

688
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: but he was and I think pilots, you know, if

689
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: we all took one percent of that mindset and ran

690
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: our lives like pilots do, we would all be better

691
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 1: prepared for change. And I say to people, I wrote

692
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: this book because I want you to be the pilot

693
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: and not the passenger in your life.

694
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've been a analyst and you and now another

695
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 2: ISTU of futurist, which is it's a great job. I

696
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 2: do love the idea. A lot of this book adapt

697
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: is as about careers. It's about our life. It's about

698
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: what transitions, what a we're going to do going ahead

699
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: those timelines you mentioned, what do we think ten years

700
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: ago was never going to have to day? Some of

701
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: those things are happening so much faster than we ever

702
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 2: ever thought. Why do we need to think about what

703
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 2: the economy and the job market might look like in

704
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: fifteen years and the innovations that are happening this week,

705
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: and how it's going to change what our world looks like.

706
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: I think the future of work is human. It will

707
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: always be human, And the greatest advantage we can give

708
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: ourselves is concentrating on those skills that will kind of

709
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: outrun the algorithm. So, of course we're seeing AI. Conversation

710
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: around AI is just so loud, it's so noisy. And

711
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: I come back to well, AI can do lots of things,

712
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: but what can you do? And I think we all

713
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: have a response ability. And this is what I love

714
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: about helping businesses understand that the best thing they can

715
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: do for their employees is build the build agency in

716
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 1: their employees because I think we all have a responsibility

717
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: to investigate and explore the impact that any tech is

718
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,399
Speaker 1: going to have on the job that we do, and

719
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: therefore allow us to think about, well, how can I

720
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 1: bring some humanity to this to my job? If AI

721
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: can do A B and C, what can D You know,

722
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 1: what can the rest of the alphabet look like if

723
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: it's human so? And I think that's everyone's responsibility. I

724
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: don't think anyone should be kicking back just hoping for

725
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: the best. And I think explore, that explore, exploit principle

726
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: is really important to all of us. And at the moment,

727
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: you know, the principle is the eighty twenty rule, right,

728
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: so we explore twenty percent While eighty percent of your

729
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: day is treaching the admin, twenty percent should be dedicated

730
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,959
Speaker 1: to exploring what's new. I think that should be fifty

731
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 1: to fifty. I think we should be spending half our

732
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: day investigating what the possible abilities are for where our

733
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: job is going. And I think about this every day

734
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: as well, What is my life going to look like

735
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 1: in ten years? How can I contribute? And most importantly,

736
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: I think that we need to take responsibility for our

737
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: own career path, our own trajectory, and role model what

738
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: it looks like to be actively engaged in the signals

739
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 1: of change that are potentially going to disrupt us or

740
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: bring us an amazing opportunity. So I encourage everyone to

741
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: look at those signals today. What do they look like,

742
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: what are the big drivers of change? And what can

743
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: you see? You know, we're all ignoring a signal of change, right,

744
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: I bet you are. I bet there's a signal of

745
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: change as a number that you know you're ignoring. Yeah,

746
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: So I encourage people to think, be honest, be find

747
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 1: that truth, be anchor yourself in the truth, and face

748
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: a signal of change that you are currently ignoring. And

749
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: when business ignores a signal of change, that's going to

750
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: have profound implications for the whole workforce.

751
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 2: Thing in a relationship, as you mentioned, when you were a.

752
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: Kid, totally and that was part of my DNA. It

753
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 1: was like we're all ignoring something here and it's really important,

754
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: and it's and it's going to be really uncomfortable.

755
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 2: Part of it is, it's the reason we haven't really

756
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,399
Speaker 2: done what we've needed to do on climate thirty years ago,

757
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 2: is because the signal of change signals something that's far

758
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 2: away from now and a bit nebulous. We can't get

759
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 2: our hands.

760
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: Around it, and all of a sudden, it's here, easier

761
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: to not do anything, and all of a sudden there's

762
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: no Gold Coast beach and there go there's our signal.

763
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: It's right in front of us, and we I think

764
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: the longer we ignore these signals have changed, the more

765
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 1: pain they're going to cause us.

766
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 2: So a part of what we, you know, to prepare

767
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: for this future economy where non skilled labor or even

768
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: highly skilled. Look, I wouldn't want to be an accountant, right.

769
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 2: What I can do with chat geept in a spreadsheet

770
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 2: is now beyond what I mean, even I failed maths.

771
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: I actually put into chatchepeach heat the other day basically

772
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 1: create a financial investment strategy for someone my age, that

773
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: kind of thing, and it was pretty wild to what

774
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: came back. I'm always surprised at how few people are

775
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: already experimenting with AI, and I say to people chat

776
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: GPT is free, download it if you've not touched it,

777
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: do yourself a favor and just experiment with it to

778
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: help you understand what you can do. But I think

779
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: we're all going to have a crisis of meaning, and

780
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: that may happen in a staggered way. It remains to

781
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: be seen how we collectively cope with such an enormous

782
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: shift in social technological drivers of change. So again, I

783
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: think it comes back to the individual. We can't outsource meaning,

784
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: we can't offload purpose. We have to figure out what

785
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: does it mean for us to wake up and feel

786
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: good about ourselves every day? And I sort of secretly

787
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 1: hope that more people are going to end up contributing

788
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: on a hyper local level, because when you look around

789
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 1: your own neighborhood, there's lots of work that needs to

790
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 1: be done that no one's doing, And I just wonder

791
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: if there's if we are going to find that more

792
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 1: people in their local communities shift their attention to what

793
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: they're going to do locally to to build a more

794
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: cohesive community. That's my that's my sort of hope. In principle,

795
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: it just remains to be seen, but none of us

796
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: can look to the government for the answers. This is

797
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: my issue, maybe a separate issue around small business. You know,

798
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 1: small business is the backbone of this nation. Yet there

799
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: are a multitude of small business owners I know that

800
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: are currently closing down their businesses and walking away because

801
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: the government makes it too hard, the tax too high.

802
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: There's the growth in the innovation has been strangled because

803
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: of the paperwork associated with running a small business, and

804
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: of course managing people is getting a lot harder. So

805
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: I'm really worried about the future of small business in

806
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: this country, which is where typically you see that growth

807
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: and innovation be catalyzed. So what is that going to

808
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: mean for the country where everyone thinks it's too hard

809
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 1: to run a small business. Really, people who are top

810
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: of their game in their sector, who runs small businesses,

811
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: I know they're currently walking away because they're like, it's

812
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: just too hard. It's just going to be easier to

813
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: work for someone else. Like you know, there are a

814
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: lot of people in a lot of financial pain at

815
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: the moment.

816
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: I'm fifty one on Saturday, and the thing that I've

817
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 2: spent thirty years becoming an expert at is no longer

818
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 2: the main thing that pays my mortgage. I used to

819
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 2: pay my mortgage with two jobs, and I use about

820
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 2: fifteen and a whole lot of cash runway that's still there, thankfully,

821
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 2: And I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going

822
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 2: to because stay in our house. I'm adapting. I'm just

823
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: I think we all are. I'm costly adapting costly. We're

824
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 2: all figuring it out, constantly adapting. I can have an

825
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 2: idea about this is if someone asked me how do

826
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 2: you be adaptive? I could have an idea. I would

827
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: probably start what are my values and then being prepared

828
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 2: to move towards uncomfortability. You, however, have spent the time

829
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 2: to break it down four very confuting steps, I hope

830
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,280
Speaker 2: so for people who are thinking about adapting and instantly

831
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 2: in their careers or whatever, what would you say the

832
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: stages are when it comes to, you know, successfully adapting

833
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 2: to a situation.

834
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 1: So four steps. The first one is engaging with signals

835
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: of change. Those those signals can look like anything, but

836
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: anything you believe is going to be a threat to

837
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: you or bring you an opportunity. That's what you need

838
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: to be paying attention to. That's the simple version. Step

839
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: two is accepting, and we are on the human so

840
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: accepting what's changing can be deeply emotional and painful. So

841
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 1: the you know, the trick there is to not stay

842
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: in the waiting place for too long. Don't get stuck.

843
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: Don't unpack in the waiting place.

844
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: Well like the part where the power has lost from

845
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 2: our engine of the three kids in the back on

846
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 2: the nine thousand feet somewhere above west Inn, Queensland.

847
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: Don't don't unpack in the waiting place. Understand that you've

848
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: got the agency to make a decision about when and

849
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: how you exert, So engage, accept what's changing. Number three

850
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: is to activate. That's activating our optimism and our energy

851
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: for change and understanding that we can influence an outcome.

852
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: So activate and just activate that energy for change. And

853
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 1: you know this is obviously the simplifying version. And then release,

854
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: that is, let go of what is no longer fit

855
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: for purpose, what is no longer useful to you. So

856
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: it's kind of just dropping that dragnet of debris. It

857
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what that looks like. That that could be

858
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: an outdated belief system, it could be it could be

859
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: something that you're really attached to your status. It could

860
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: be anything that you have a disproportionate attachment to that

861
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: is actually not useful for you moving forward. So when

862
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: I left television, I didn't think my identity was that

863
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: tightly wound up in TV, so it was easy to

864
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: let go. But I still had to let go of

865
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: my parents being really proud of me because I was

866
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: on TV that kind of thing. But what have you

867
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: got to release and an unlearn in order to have

868
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: all that energy for change? Because we need a lot

869
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: of energy for change, and often changes thrust upon us

870
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: when we have the least amount of energy, when we're

871
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: not feeling like the best version of ourselves. So the

872
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: best time to instigate a change is when we feel good,

873
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: when we feel strong. But those I think are the

874
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 1: four ways to being in a continual conversation with change

875
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: and training yourself to be ready and not reactive to

876
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 1: what's changing around you.

877
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 2: In the context of change and adaptiveness and adaptability, we've

878
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 2: spoken a lot about when things are changing for the negative,

879
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 2: I guess, or to take away something that we have

880
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 2: either valued or become quite used to. However, that's not

881
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 2: always what change shows up as that shows up as

882
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 2: and I think it's important. Even though we do have

883
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 2: a negativity bias, it is important to remember that change

884
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 2: can also look the other way. Change can also look incredible.

885
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,760
Speaker 2: And you mentioned a BlackBerry earlier, so let's go there.

886
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 2: I had a nock here. It was amazing. Oh, I

887
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 2: can't remember, I can't remember it. It went for five days.

888
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 2: It was brilliant. And I resisted the BlackBerry for a

889
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 2: long time. And then I got the BlackBerry and there

890
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 2: were parts of it that were incredible and parts of

891
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 2: it that weren't. And I resisted the iPhone for a

892
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 2: long time because I didn't want to be the iPhone people.

893
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 2: But once I got it. But once I got the thing,

894
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 2: the amount of utility and the amount of benefit that

895
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 2: had brought my life just so far eclipsed whatever it

896
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 2: is I've been using before. I gave no further thought

897
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 2: to that Nokia that was in my drawer, nor the BlackBerry.

898
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 2: Away they went. So sometimes change can be I guess,

899
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 2: for us to approach it, how can we look at

900
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 2: a situation where what's the amount of utility and usefulness

901
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 2: that I can find in this situation that just drowns out?

902
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 2: I mean, I could no longer text with one hand.

903
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: You know, I could no longer have a battery of

904
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 2: rain for five days. These were things, yeah, that I

905
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 2: could no longer do. We still cannot do. It is

906
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 2: still true, and yet this thing does so much more

907
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,919
Speaker 2: than both of those things. I know it doesn't matter.

908
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: I think adaptability is as simple as recognizing that something

909
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: new can be better. But we're so attached to what

910
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: we've had before. And that's the interesting thing about our

911
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 1: default to change with default to loss. What I'm saying

912
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,399
Speaker 1: in adapt is, let's default to something being better. Let's

913
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: let's find the upside in change, because you do resist

914
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden you realize, Wow, this

915
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 1: is exponentially better.

916
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 2: It's powerful too, because its survival makes exactly exactly we

917
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 2: are pushing against something that has kept us alive as

918
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 2: a species.

919
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: That's right. And so we've got to interrupt that script.

920
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: And we all have someone in our family who refuses

921
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: to upgrade the software in their phone, don't we or iPad?

922
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: We all had that in the family.

923
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 2: He's like a little red dot, I want to go away.

924
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. So, and I think what's really

925
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:11,280
Speaker 1: interesting and on us is to counter that thought pattern

926
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: and to interrupt that script and rewrite the script, because

927
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: by reminding ourselves that something new can be better. You know,

928
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,800
Speaker 1: what if this brings efficiency? What if I'm happier, what

929
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: if I'm healthier if I get restructured out of my job.

930
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: Of course, in the moment, it's devastating and painful, but

931
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 1: what if that means I can take care of myself?

932
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: And what if it means I can go after that

933
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: dream I've always had in my life? So what is

934
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: the Let's default to the upside, while of course recognizing

935
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: that there are negatives and potential threats, let's focus on

936
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: Let's actively choose to focus on the upside and change.

937
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 2: So, my our eldest, she's twenty one.

938
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 1: She it's so grown up.

939
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 2: Pilates instructure twenty on a leather jacket, that's all. Well,

940
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: she's you know what, she's twenty one. She's probably got

941
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 2: better skin than your leather jacket. Well, she teaches, She

942
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: teaches three to four hours of polarates a day, and

943
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 2: then she goes to UNI. And the chances are that

944
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 2: whatever she's studying at UNI will probably be taught, you know,

945
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 2: by a non human at some point. But at this point.

946
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 2: At this point, you still you can't be a Pilarate's

947
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 2: instructor with it. You know, it's like plumbing. You can't

948
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 2: chat GBT, you cannot do plumbing, and nor is it EVERGNE.

949
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: Also can I just I'm a Pilarates person obsessive. Okay, okay,

950
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 1: there's a Polarti studio that's just opened up locally which

951
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: has screens and no humans getting.

952
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 2: The fuck out of here.

953
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: Basically I've got someone walking around, but it's it's basically screens.

954
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: That's how them, that's how they're making it cheap.

955
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,240
Speaker 2: So you don't own a Reformer, which can be creatively expensive,

956
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,919
Speaker 2: even though Aldi was selling her the other week dollars

957
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 2: amazing dog. So you can own not own a reformer

958
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 2: and their usual show up and essentially just watch the screen.

959
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: But no one wants. Anyone who really knows what good

960
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 1: Pilarates is will never step foot in that studio, including me,

961
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: not interested in saving twelve dollars to look at a screen.

962
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 1: I want that human connection, and I think that let's

963
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: not discount the connection, the belonging and the cohesive community

964
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:29,760
Speaker 1: that we all I think will be more dedicated towards building.

965
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: So I don't think we should be too quick to

966
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: rush to making a huge assumption about what humanoids are

967
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 1: going to be doing. I think that we're connection. That's

968
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: why we've got to I don't need to talk to

969
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: you about mental health.

970
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 2: You know this is.

971
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: I think a sense of belonging and a sense of

972
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: community is something that is a growing concern for a

973
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: lot of people, particularly freelancers that aren't freelance creatives that

974
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 1: I know. What's what I'm seeing happening is a real

975
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: surge towards how do we find work companions? As my

976
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: friend Rihanna Brown calls it, how do we find work

977
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: companions when we're not going into an office nine to five?

978
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: How do we build a sense of deep meaning community

979
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 1: around the work that we're doing. We all need to

980
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: organize ourselves differently around work, and people are self organizing

981
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: to feel like they're still connected to their colleagues. And

982
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: I think, well, that will be a movement that we

983
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: see really rapidly grow in the next few years as

984
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: we figure out what a new way of working looks

985
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: like for us all.

986
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 2: So for you know, the kids. This morning, I dropped

987
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 2: off my son and the playground full of kids that

988
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 2: are like five, six, seven years old.

989
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:46,240
Speaker 1: They're having so much fun.

990
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, what we're doing totally. So what kind of if

991
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 2: you're you know, looking at kids at that age, what

992
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: kind of things as a futurist with your futures had on.

993
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: What kind of skills do you think in ten fifteen

994
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 2: years will be more valuable to them than anything else.

995
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: Look, I might be overly optimistic, but I come back

996
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 1: to the human skills. I say to my friends, get

997
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: your kids in the playground, get them digging dirt, get

998
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 1: them off screens like wet. Look, I'm only two years

999
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: younger than the news. So how much fun was it

1000
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 1: to grow up riding bikes around the neighborhood, you know,

1001
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: mucking around, getting hurt, getting hurt? Resilience is are doing

1002
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: word like building live resilience in life. If I had kids,

1003
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: I would be focused on getting them as much community

1004
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,280
Speaker 1: connection as I possibly could, and I would be encouraging

1005
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: them to focus on the human skills, the creativity, the creative,

1006
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 1: the collaboration, any of those skills that are uniquely human

1007
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 1: that that AI won't be able to replace. That was

1008
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: my first book future for It was about that, like,

1009
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 1: what are the human skills that will disproportionately advantage just

1010
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: in our lives. And there's you know, there's nothing that

1011
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 1: will replace human creativity. And I really believe that, and

1012
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: I think that. I mean, you know, an aiagent couldn't

1013
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: give you the stories that I've given you today, right,

1014
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 1: So let's focus on having human experiences with other humans,

1015
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:20,959
Speaker 1: and let's focus on that hope for the best.

1016
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 2: I'm glad you came today this hands like you think

1017
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 2: about the wall a lot and I'm glad you're in it.

1018
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming in.

1019
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me.

1020
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 2: That was Andrea Clark. The new book is adapt Mastering

1021
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: Change in four Steps. While you are on the interweb

1022
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 2: ordering that book, which I'll put a link to in

1023
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 2: the show notes, story club live dot com to get

1024
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 2: your tickets to the next show, eleventh of May, early

1025
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 2: show five point forty five. We kick off amazing lineup

1026
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 2: I talked about at this other show. Don't miss it.

1027
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:50,720
Speaker 2: You can also get in touch with me. Osha Ginsburg

1028
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 2: got substack dot com and my email addresses. Sendsher email

1029
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. Thanks to Adam Buncher for making

1030
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 2: this show with me today. I'll see you on Monday.