Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.
Speaker 1: The war in the Middle East is dominating Australian politics.
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton has spent the week going hard against the
Speaker 1: Prime Minister, saying he disrespected the Jewish community when he
Speaker 1: called for the de escalation and a cease fire in
Speaker 1: his condolence motion on October seven. But there are signs
Speaker 1: that Dutton's attacks aren't landing and he's become too focused
Speaker 1: on the Middle East conflict at the expense of pressing
Speaker 1: issues closer to home. Today columnists for the Saturday Paper
Speaker 1: Paul bon Joorna on the indirect ways the Middle East
Speaker 1: conflict could shape life here in Australia and the outcome
Speaker 1: of the election. It's Friday, October eleven. Paul, thanks for
Speaker 1: joining us. Want to start with the condolence motion in
Speaker 1: Parliament at the start of the week to mark the
Speaker 1: one year anniversary of the Hamas attack on Israel. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me what the motion said?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Hi, Daniel, Well the motion had fifteen statements.
Speaker 1: May give the call to the Prime Minister.
Speaker 3: Thanks very much, missus.
Speaker 2: Speaker.
Speaker 3: I moved that the House of Representatives a reiterates its
Speaker 3: unequivocal condemnation of Hamasa's terror attacks on Israel.
Speaker 2: Which the first four condemned unequivocally the massacre, the taking
Speaker 2: of hostages, and the brutal attacks on hundreds of other
Speaker 2: innocent Israelis on that day. It called for the immediate
Speaker 2: release of the hostages, It condemned anti Semitism and stood
Speaker 2: with Jewish Australians who have been affected by it. But
Speaker 2: it then went on to call for a cease fire
Speaker 2: and regional de escalations.
Speaker 3: K stresses the need to break the cycle of violence
Speaker 3: and supports international efforts to de escalate, for a sea
Speaker 3: firing Gaza and in Lebanon, and for lasting peace and
Speaker 3: security for Israeli, Palestinian, Lebanese and all people in the region.
Speaker 2: The emotion went broader, recognizing that there are many others
Speaker 2: in Australia deeply distressed by the conflict beyond October seven,
Speaker 2: and it warned the undermining of social cohesion risks Australia's
Speaker 2: domestic security, and the Prime Minister went on quote every
Speaker 2: civilian life matters, every Palestinian, every Lebanese, every single innocent life.
Speaker 4: That is the truth.
Speaker 3: We must hold on to the truth of a shared humanity,
Speaker 3: of the hope that peace is possible, and the belief
Speaker 3: that it belongs to all people. To quote the great
Speaker 3: Doctor Martin Luther King, darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only
Speaker 3: light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only
Speaker 3: love can do that. I commend the resolution to the House.
Speaker 2: The motion passed the House with eighty five votes. There
Speaker 2: were fifty four against the entire Liberal and National parties
Speaker 2: and three from the cross bench. The four Greens abstained.
Speaker 2: Of course, all the action wasn't only in the House
Speaker 2: of Representatives. The motion then went to the Senate, and
Speaker 2: it was there that there was quite a kafaffel. Lydia
Speaker 2: Thorpe now an independence. She marched into the chamber screaming out.
Speaker 5: The reason we're advocating for us, our Minister on cases
Speaker 5: in your seat.
Speaker 2: And the Green senators held up placards and defiance of
Speaker 2: the standing orders and angering the President of the Senate,
Speaker 2: the demanding sanctions now on Israel.
Speaker 5: Senator thought, it is inappropriate to come in here, Senator thought,
Speaker 5: Senator thought, come to order, Senator Thorpe, come to order,
Speaker 5: Senator thought, take your seat, Senator thought.
Speaker 2: Issue in the Senator is still unresolved.
Speaker 1: So the Coalition and the Greens didn't support the motion.
Speaker 2: What did they say, Well, the Greens leader Adam Bant
Speaker 2: was critical of Albanisi for not allowing amendments that would
Speaker 2: not give sympathy, but condemnation of Israel hardly fitting in
Speaker 2: with the purpose of the day. But Bant was uncompromising
Speaker 2: in his condemnation of the ongoing slaughter as he calls it,
Speaker 2: and critical that war crimes were not condemned.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 2: Opposition leader Peter Dutton was at the polar opposite end
Speaker 2: of the argument.
Speaker 4: This motion was supposed to be about October seven, about
Speaker 4: the loss of human life in the circumstances that we've
Speaker 4: just graphically outlined, and that people cross the world now
Speaker 4: come to understand. I proposed to the Prime Minister a
Speaker 4: motion which was balanced and objective.
Speaker 2: Dutton refused to back the motion. He said the original
Speaker 2: intent of the motion was to mark the loss of
Speaker 2: twelve hundred Israeli lives.
Speaker 4: This government has sought to walk both sides of the
Speaker 4: street in relation to what has been a very divisive
Speaker 4: debate for our country. It's what in part has given
Speaker 4: rise to the anti Semitism that we've seen in university campuses,
Speaker 4: but across society more generally.
Speaker 2: He said, the Prime Minister, unlike his labor predecessors, didn't
Speaker 2: have the decency to respect the Jewish community.
Speaker 4: And for that, Prime Minister, you should stand condemned. We
Speaker 4: have put to this Prime Minister a more than reasonable position.
Speaker 2: And Dutton's position since October seven last year has given
Speaker 2: Israel unquestioning support. He rarely acknowledges the loss of Palestinian
Speaker 2: life and supports ongoing war until Hamas Hesbalah and the
Speaker 2: hooties are routed. But it should be remembered that Albanezi
Speaker 2: meant over backwards trying to get bipartisanship on this motion.
Speaker 2: There were meetings on the weekend and even on Tuesday morning.
Speaker 2: The Prime Minister met the opposition leader twice tried to
Speaker 2: convince him to come on board, and Dutton refused point blank.
Speaker 2: He tried to blame Albanisi for this failure in bipartisanship. Well,
Speaker 2: I personally don't think that that passes the pub test. Well,
Speaker 2: the independent member for went with Olegraspender. She also didn't
Speaker 2: back the motion. Hers as the seat with the largest
Speaker 2: Jewish community in the country.
Speaker 7: I wish that we as a Parliament could come together
Speaker 7: and lead unitedly. I would have supported this motion had
Speaker 7: it been separated into two motions one on October seven one.
Speaker 7: Recognizing the pain that the last year had brought.
Speaker 2: She criticized her colleagues in Parliament for not being able
Speaker 2: to find common grounds.
Speaker 7: And I am once again disappointed by this House and
Speaker 7: the political politicization of this issue, because the country is
Speaker 7: looking for us to come together. The country is hurting.
Speaker 7: There are people who have lost friends and families across
Speaker 7: our communities. They are hurting and we are not helping
Speaker 7: these people.
Speaker 1: Is an obviously a tricky issue for the government. How
Speaker 1: would you describe the political calculations they are making when
Speaker 1: they're talking about this war?
Speaker 2: Well, Daniel, of course, no matter what the politicians want
Speaker 2: you to believe, there are always political calculations. Dutton accuses
Speaker 2: Albanisi of selling out Israel to appease Arab and Muslim voters,
Speaker 2: particularly in Western Sydney, with two and possibly three seats
Speaker 2: in play, but it's also clear that Dutton has his
Speaker 2: eye on three seats as well, with significant Jewish numbers,
Speaker 2: two held by Teal Independence and one held by Labor
Speaker 2: on a knife edge in Melbourne, and the issue was
Speaker 2: particularly fraught for Labor internally. We were reminded of that
Speaker 2: on Wednesday when Senator Fatima Payman, who quit Labor earlier
Speaker 2: this year over its refusal to immediately recognize Palestine, announced
Speaker 2: she's forming a new party called Australia's Voice, and it's
Speaker 2: clearly aimed at Labor voters. There's growing sentiment in the
Speaker 2: left of the Labor Party for the Palestinian cause, but
Speaker 2: even there no one disputes Israel has a right to
Speaker 2: defend itself and in saying that, they realize, as Cabinet
Speaker 2: Minister Mark Butler, who by the way, is from the
Speaker 2: left of the party, as he said on Monday, that
Speaker 2: right clearly involves the use of force. The line the
Speaker 2: government formally draws is that force must be used within
Speaker 2: the norms of international law.
Speaker 1: And Paula's politicians fought over words elsewhere in Parliament some
Speaker 1: palestinianstraints front of the media. What happened at that press conference.
Speaker 2: Well of the Greens and Lydia Thorpe, the former Green,
Speaker 2: and Fatima Payman, well, they turned up with the Palestinians
Speaker 2: at Parliament House to say look this isn't only about words,
Speaker 2: it's about real people.
Speaker 5: That this is a press conference where you've just heard
Speaker 5: for the last forty five minutes to the impacts of
Speaker 5: the genocide, the state.
Speaker 2: Of Israel and what they have done, and you're asking
Speaker 2: questions about emotion, You're asking questions about Israel having the
Speaker 2: rights to self defense, trying to give a dimension to
Speaker 2: the view they hold that the whole conflict is not
Speaker 2: only regrettable, but reprehensible and as a human catastrophe.
Speaker 1: There were massive protests last weekend, and there have been
Speaker 1: massive protests throughout the last twelve months, thousands of people
Speaker 1: gathering to show their support for Palestine and thousands also
Speaker 1: gathering to commemorate the attacks on Israel a year ago.
Speaker 1: What does this tell you about how big an issue
Speaker 1: this is in the minds of voters right now.
Speaker 2: Well. Research by the Labor Party finds that while a
Speaker 2: majority of Australians, probably around seventy to seventy five percent,
Speaker 2: are aware of the conflict, they see it as over
Speaker 2: there and regrettable, but it doesn't really concern us, so
Speaker 2: it doesn't have a broad resonance in that sense. Labor
Speaker 2: thinks that around ten percent of Australians are particularly involved
Speaker 2: and exercised, and these would be people on the Jewish
Speaker 2: and Palestinian side, with the relatives in Gaza or in Israel. Now.
Speaker 2: An Essential poll this week found about fifty six percent
Speaker 2: of Australians are satisfied with Albanesi's response to the Israel
Speaker 2: Gaza war and a separate resolve. Pole in the Age
Speaker 2: found fifty one percent of Australians don't want the government
Speaker 2: to take sides in the conflict. They certainly don't want
Speaker 2: any form of military involvement, either sending military equipment sixty
Speaker 2: seven percent were against that or sending military support seventy
Speaker 2: two percent were against that. So with that in mind,
Speaker 2: Dutton could be misfiring. Dutton is doing what he accused
Speaker 2: Albanisi of doing in the Voice referendum, focusing on one
Speaker 2: issue that the expense of bigger issues for voters strugging
Speaker 2: to make ends meet.
Speaker 1: After the break how the conflict might shape politics here
Speaker 1: in a surprising and indirect way, for the conflict in
Speaker 1: the Middle East is dominating politics here at home, despite
Speaker 1: some evidence that for most voters it is in top
Speaker 1: of mind. We're gearing up for an election sometime early
Speaker 1: in the next year. So can you tell me about
Speaker 1: how this issue is likely to impact the result?
Speaker 2: Well, I guess that remains to be seen. Besides Wentworth
Speaker 2: in Sydney, there are two seats in Melbourne potentially in play,
Speaker 2: Kujong and McNamara. Coujong took in a big swag of
Speaker 2: Jewish votes from the abolished seat of Higgins Well. Independent
Speaker 2: Monique Ryan will hope her chances are protected by Dutton's
Speaker 2: failure to develop serious pos on climate change and energy.
Speaker 2: That certainly played a part in Ryan winning Kujung in
Speaker 2: the first place. In McNamara, Labor incumbent Josh Burns, himself Jewish,
Speaker 2: has told worried branch members is confident he can hold
Speaker 2: on with many Jewish Greens in the seat now rejecting
Speaker 2: the party. But this week Joe Biden lets slip that
Speaker 2: Israel could target Iran's oil production and export facilities. Certify
Speaker 2: some of.
Speaker 4: Your comments yesterday with regard to strikes on.
Speaker 5: Iranian oil facilities, What did you mean by them?
Speaker 7: Given some of the reactions for Senior in the market.
Speaker 6: Colok, the Israelis have I concluded how they're what they're
Speaker 6: going to do in term of the strain, that's on
Speaker 6: a discussion.
Speaker 2: Biden's so worried he's tried to talk Netanyahu out of
Speaker 2: bombing Iran's oil facilities. Well, you'd have to say the
Speaker 2: Israeli Prime Minister hasn't shown much of any inclination to
Speaker 2: take notice of the US President in the past twelve
Speaker 2: months and is unlikely to begin heeding him now, even
Speaker 2: though it's been widely reported that on Thursday morning, there
Speaker 2: was an intense phone discussion between nettin Yahoo and Biden.
Speaker 8: Until the phone call, today, US officials tell NBC News
Speaker 8: that Israeli leaders had not briefed the US on the
Speaker 8: specific details of their retaliatory response against Iran, even as
Speaker 8: the Pentagon discussed the possibility of supporting any potential military action.
Speaker 2: Financial journalist Alan Cohler says if that happens, there would
Speaker 2: be an epic inflationary bust, similar to the nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: three oil shock. Coler points out that destroying Iran's facilities
Speaker 2: on carg Island, twenty five kilometers off the coast, would
Speaker 2: destroy only three percent of global production, but it would
Speaker 2: be a very different story if Iran retaliated by taking
Speaker 2: out Saudi Arabian and United Arab Emirates oil production capacity,
Speaker 2: as it's threatened to do if attacked. The nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: three oil shock had badly impacted the global economy, and
Speaker 2: a similar disruption to oil supplies, given that we now
Speaker 2: import all of them, would redefine the debate over cost
Speaker 2: of living and energy policy in Australia. There's no doubt
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 1: So that was the case, then, pore that this ends
Speaker 1: up impacting people's cost of living here in Australia right
Speaker 1: before an election, how do you think that will shape
Speaker 1: the way the election is fought.
Speaker 2: Well rationally Given the current scientific alarm over global warming,
Speaker 2: it should give weight to relying even more urgently on
Speaker 2: Australia's abundant sources of wind and solar energy. Our vulnerability
Speaker 2: to imported fossil fuels for our transport needs would be
Speaker 2: significantly lessened if we were further down the path of electrification.
Speaker 2: We yet to see what energy policies the coalition will
Speaker 2: take to the next election. We should remember nuclear is
Speaker 2: at least three elections away. If ever, and in the
Speaker 2: latest batch of opinion polls, analyst Kevin Bonham sees an
Speaker 2: improvement for labor giving it an aggregate edge, and it
Speaker 2: could be bolstered by rising consumer confidence and an even
Speaker 2: healthier budget position thanks to Chinese demand for iron ore
Speaker 2: Daniel no doubt Albinizzi, on the sidelines of the aas
Speaker 2: IN summit in Lao this week, will express his gratitude
Speaker 2: to China's Premier Li Chang for Beijing's latest economic stimulus policies,
Speaker 2: while I have no doubt at the same time keeping
Speaker 2: his fingers crossed that the Middle East conflict doesn't dramatically
Speaker 2: impact global oil energy supplies.
Speaker 1: Paul, thank you so much for your time. Let's do
Speaker 1: this against scene.
Speaker 6: Thank you, Daniel By.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, the Deputy Prime Minister's chief
Speaker 1: of staff claims she's being forced out of her job
Speaker 1: after raising complaints of bullying against her colleagues. Joe Tunwoski
Speaker 1: claims that while she's still currently employed as chief of staff,
Speaker 1: she has been ostracized and unable to access her office
Speaker 1: without giving twenty four hours notice since June this year.
Speaker 1: During question time, the Deputy Prime Minister City upheld minister
Speaker 1: Or Code of Conduct, which requires ministers to uphold the
Speaker 1: highest workplace standards, including a safe and respectful workplace culture
Speaker 1: Townwoski has not made allegations of bullying against the Deputy
Speaker 1: Prime Minister a New South Wales police are currently investigating
Speaker 1: more than eighty cases of alleged coercive control. The new
Speaker 1: data comes after coercive control was declared a criminal offense
Speaker 1: in New South Wales back in July of this year.
Speaker 1: So far, only one person that's been charged by New
Speaker 1: South Wales police for the crime. Seven Am is a
Speaker 1: daily shave from Schwartz Media and The Saturday Paper. It's
Speaker 1: produced by Shane Anderson, Zultanfecho and Zaia Tangral. Our technical
Speaker 1: producer is Atticus Bastow. We are edited by Chris Dangate
Speaker 1: and Sarah mcvee. Eric Jensen is our editor in chief,
Speaker 1: mixing by Travis Evans. Our theme music is by Ned
Speaker 1: Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Budeo. Seven Am is
Speaker 1: hosted by Ruby Jones and myself Daniel James. We'll be
Speaker 1: back on Monday with the first episode in a special
Speaker 1: three part series. This is Alice Springs. See you then,