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Speaker 1: One of the first things that Justice Christopher Bill told

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Speaker 1: the jury in the trial of Aaron Patterson was something

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Speaker 1: he said they should immediately put out of their minds.

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Speaker 1: He told them about charges of attempted murder, charges that

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Speaker 1: Aaron tried to poison her estranged husband, Simon Patterson, charges

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Speaker 1: the prosecution had dropped. Now we can finally tell you

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Speaker 1: about them. He is veteran crime reporter Anthony Dowsley with

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Speaker 1: court reporter ash Argoon. Stick around until the end because

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Speaker 1: we have some other news about the podcast that we

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Speaker 1: think you'll like. I'm Brook Greebert Craig, and this is

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Speaker 1: the Mushroom.

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Speaker 2: I'm here with my esteemed colleague Ashley Argoon. And like

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Speaker 2: any big story and enormous investigation, there is a backstory

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Speaker 2: and there are things that the jury did not hear

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Speaker 2: in the King versus Aaron Patterson. During the pre trial

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Speaker 2: to this trial, you hear a lot of evidence that

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Speaker 2: doesn't end up coming out in the big show of

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Speaker 2: the trial. And incredibly, there were charges laid against Aaron

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Speaker 2: Patterson for not once, twice, three times, and even a

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Speaker 2: fourth trying to poison her husband, Simon Patterson. Now, why

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Speaker 2: didn't the jury hear any of.

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Speaker 3: This ash well. Firstly, the charges against Simon Patterson were dropped.

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Speaker 3: That we know about that because the jury was told

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Speaker 3: that on the first day of the trial. They were

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Speaker 3: told to take those charges out of their mind. Because

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Speaker 3: the community knew. Initially when the police charged Aaron Patterson,

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Speaker 3: they charged her over attempted murder charges against her husband, Simon,

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Speaker 3: her strange husband, Simon. But before those charges were dropped,

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Speaker 3: what the community does not know is that Aaron Patterson

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Speaker 3: was due to face two trials. The judge, Justice Christopher Biale.

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Speaker 3: He decided to separate her charges out, one on murder

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Speaker 3: charges with the lunch and one with the attempted murder

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Speaker 3: chargers with Simon.

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Speaker 2: So we were going to have two trials and the

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Speaker 2: second trial was going to basically the Simon Patterson poisoning chargeseah.

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Speaker 2: So on the eve of the trial, the charges of

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Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson trying to poison her husband were dropped.

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Speaker 3: That's right. But before that happened, Simon Patterson had already

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Speaker 3: taken the witness box for two days in pre trial

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Speaker 3: in October twenty twenty four, and I, along with other journalists,

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Speaker 3: were sitting a mere two meters away from him while

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Speaker 3: he gave evidence over two days, telling the court how

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Speaker 3: he believed his strange wife had tried to kill him

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Speaker 3: on multi pu occasions when she invited him on solo

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Speaker 3: camping trips in the remote bushland in Victoria. What is

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Speaker 3: a pre trial, Well, as the name suggests, it's the

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Speaker 3: hearings that come before a trial. So in this instance,

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Speaker 3: witnesses were called to give evidence, and some of these

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Speaker 3: witnesses we never heard from in the trial, and much

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Speaker 3: of this evidence was never delivered to the jury.

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Speaker 2: So it's almost like a process of elimination.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like the first chance that the defense gets

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Speaker 3: to cross examine a witness before they get to the

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Speaker 3: big dance.

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Speaker 2: So let's go through these alleged attempted poisonings one by one,

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Speaker 2: case by case. Sure, so we have a roller coaster

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Speaker 2: relationship they separated, that would gather together back and forth,

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Speaker 2: back and forth, back and forth, and first trip that

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Speaker 2: they take together didn't eventuate.

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Speaker 3: No, basically not so prefacing this with in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 3: Simon Patterson said that his a strange wife had invited

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Speaker 3: him to go to South Africa, just the two of them.

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Speaker 3: So this is four years after they were separated. He

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Speaker 3: said she'd never done that since they had had their children.

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Speaker 3: So their son at that time was ten, so it

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Speaker 3: had been ten years since she'd invited him on a

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Speaker 3: trip just the two of them. Their trip was canceled

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Speaker 3: because of COVID instead in twenty twenty one when the

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Speaker 3: restrictions eased.

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Speaker 2: So about November of twenty twenty one, the.

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Speaker 3: Suggestion was they go camping instead. We know how they

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Speaker 3: loved going camping. Their relationship began basically over a shared

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Speaker 3: love of the outdoors.

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Speaker 2: So instead of going to South Africa an exotic trip,

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Speaker 2: they end up in Wilson's Prom. Yeah, exactly, quite a

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Speaker 2: nice place.

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Speaker 3: A bit different South Africa, yep, but nice.

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Speaker 2: So they go to Wilson's Prom. They're going to go camping.

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Speaker 2: It's without the kids. It's almost like a reconciliation. It's

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Speaker 2: maybe suppose.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we've heard a lot about how they were

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Speaker 3: wanting to have a good relationship for the children and

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Speaker 3: themselves as well, and Simon certainly said that in pre trial.

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Speaker 3: He said they wanted to have a good relationship, and

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Speaker 3: he believed for a long time that they were going

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Speaker 3: to reconcile until he didn't, but that's for later in

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Speaker 3: this podcast.

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Speaker 2: So Erin whips up a dish. What's the dish?

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Speaker 3: It's penne bolonnaise. So the night before they go camping

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Speaker 3: in November twenty twenty one, they do a lot of packing,

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Speaker 3: so Simon's at his house. They're in separate homes at

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Speaker 3: this stage. Simon's at his house and Erin comes over

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Speaker 3: with a tupperware container of pasta and she says to

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Speaker 3: Simon that this is the dinner that her and the

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Speaker 3: kid's going to eat for dinner that night, and she

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Speaker 3: brought him some. So they spend a long time packing

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Speaker 3: and she ends up leaving at about six or seven o'clock.

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Speaker 3: And later that night he was asked did you eat

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Speaker 3: the penn a bolonnais? And he says, at about nine

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Speaker 3: or ten o'clock he did because Aaron was in contact

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Speaker 3: with him through the night and he said he felt

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Speaker 3: the words he used was encouraged to eat tea and

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Speaker 3: not leave it too late. Encouraged. So he ate that

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Speaker 3: dinner at nine or ten o'clock and then went to

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Speaker 3: bed for an early start the next morning head to

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Speaker 3: Aaron's place.

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Speaker 2: So does he become sick during the night.

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Speaker 3: No, he starts feeling unwell when he arrives at her home,

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Speaker 3: and he said when he turned up at the front door,

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Speaker 3: he was greeted by Aaron and his sister Tanya, who

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Speaker 3: was there to look after their children while they're away.

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Speaker 3: And he can't remember who of them had said this,

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Speaker 3: but they asked if he was okay and commented that

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Speaker 3: he looked gray.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so he's not looking the best. But do they

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Speaker 2: end up going camping?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he said at that stage, he thought he was

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Speaker 3: just feeling stressed about the idea that he and Aaron

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Speaker 3: were going to spend some time alone for the first

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Speaker 3: time in a long time.

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Speaker 2: And they've got an airbnb as well.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think they book that on the way when

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Speaker 3: he starts to become ill, right, So at Aaron's house

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Speaker 3: before they even leave, he vomits a few times in

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Speaker 3: the toilet. He's quite unwell, and he decides, well, it's

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Speaker 3: probably just gastro or something. So they decide to push on.

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Speaker 3: So they get in the car and drive to Wilson's.

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Speaker 2: Prom okay, And do they make it?

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Speaker 3: No, No, they don't because he's increasingly unwell. They had

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Speaker 3: to stop the car. I think once for him to

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Speaker 3: be sick, and in the end, I believe Aaron booked

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Speaker 3: an airbanba for them because he was so unwell near

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Speaker 3: Wilson's prom and they spend about forty eight hours at

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Speaker 3: that airbanb where Simon's throwing up the whole time, and

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Speaker 3: eventually he says that they do go to hospital, but

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Speaker 3: there's a bit of a conversation first. It takes a

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Speaker 3: little while for them to decide to get to hospital.

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Speaker 2: So it basically says, I'm pretty sick, I need to

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Speaker 2: go to hospital.

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Speaker 3: He said he had mentioned to his wife he thought

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Speaker 3: that he needed to go to hospital, and her comment was,

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Speaker 3: hospitals in our part of the world are a bit

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Speaker 3: hard to get into. Sometimes sometimes there's a bit of

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Speaker 3: a weight, so it might be better to just wait

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Speaker 3: and see and see if the symptoms a bait.

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Speaker 2: So he probably thought he had a gastro bug or

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Speaker 2: something like that. Yeah, he go to hospital.

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Speaker 3: In the end, Yeah, yeah, he goes to hospital. Aaron

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Speaker 3: takes him to hospital and he's in there for a week,

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Speaker 3: in and out of hospital for about a week, and

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Speaker 3: he thinks that he has gastro and he says the

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Speaker 3: doctors can't tell him exactly what's gone on, but he

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Speaker 3: believes he has gastro and after about a week and

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Speaker 3: being on a trip, he goes back home to his

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Speaker 3: own home.

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Speaker 2: So oddly enough, Simon comes around to the idea that

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Speaker 2: he's a little bit suspicious of this sickness that he's had.

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Speaker 2: We're into the next year, or into twenty twenty two

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Speaker 2: by this time, and he kind of ribs her about it.

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Speaker 3: He does in the new year. He said that it

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Speaker 3: briefly crosses his mind that maybe Aaron might have poisoned him.

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Speaker 3: And when she invites him to a makeup trip camping trip,

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Speaker 3: because as we know, they barely made it to the

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Speaker 3: first one. They made it to Airbnb outside of Wilson's

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Speaker 3: prom but they didn't actually go camping, so he says,

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Speaker 3: she suggests that they go on a makeup trip, this

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Speaker 3: time to haw Qua outside of Mansfield in May twenty two,

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Speaker 3: and he said before they went he had a bit

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Speaker 3: of a joke with her and said to her that

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Speaker 3: she might put something in the food and poison me.

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Speaker 2: But he gets sick again, doesn't he.

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Speaker 3: They go away to hau Qua and the preamble for

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Speaker 3: this dinner that they have in hau Qua that he

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Speaker 3: believes causes him to be sick. Is that about a

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Speaker 3: week before they go on their trip, he goes over

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Speaker 3: to Aaron's place, as he said, he did quite a bit,

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Speaker 3: and she's running a taste test of spice with the kids,

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Speaker 3: with the kids and Simon, and she's getting them to

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Speaker 3: taste different sauces and she says it's because she's making

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Speaker 3: a curry and she wants to check everyone's spice level

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Speaker 3: to see how spicy they can handle their food. So

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Speaker 3: a week later, when they're camping, it's the second night

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Speaker 3: that they're away in hal Kwa, and he says he's

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Speaker 3: served up this chicken corma curry and he believes this

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Speaker 3: is the curry that's specially made to his spice level

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Speaker 3: from the test.

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Speaker 2: The week before. Yeah, okay, So he eats the chicken corma, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Chicken comra and rice. Right, they eat the chicken comra

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Speaker 3: and rice, and he.

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Speaker 2: Believes they eat the same eat the same meal.

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Speaker 3: Well, he says that he can see that she's eating

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Speaker 3: a meal that he believes is the same meal, but

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Speaker 3: he didn't see how it was prepared or what tuppleware

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Speaker 3: containers it was packaged in if it was separate or whatever.

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Speaker 3: He's served up the food, he eats it, and at

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Speaker 3: about midnight he starts to feel sick.

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Speaker 2: So Simon probably has a hot flush.

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Speaker 3: He says, he feels hot. He starts feeling hot, especially

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Speaker 3: in the head.

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Speaker 2: Right And when he's describing this, how did he describe

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Speaker 2: how he felt?

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Speaker 3: He said it was about midnight he felt hot, especially

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Speaker 3: in the head, and he said it led to him

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Speaker 3: feeling washes and then quite suddenly he needed to vomit.

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Speaker 3: And then after the vomiting, he started to have diarrhea.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so that sounds like food poisoning. Does he go

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Speaker 2: to hospital again?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's nighttime. They're out camping, so they wait until

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Speaker 3: the sun comes up, and Simon says, you know, hospital time.

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Speaker 3: So they agree to go to Mansfield Hospital, and he

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Speaker 3: says that their campsite. Aaron packs up the entire thing.

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Speaker 3: The only thing that she can't do is lift the

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Speaker 3: tent into the back of the car, so he has

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Speaker 3: to help with that, and they head to Mansfield Hospital

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Speaker 3: where he's there. He stops vomiting that afternoon and he's

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Speaker 3: discharge the next day.

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Speaker 2: So Aaron drives him back to Curramborough the next day. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So they head back in the car. Aaron drives

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Speaker 3: him to his own house and he spends a couple

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Speaker 3: of days there. I think this is the Friday, and

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Speaker 3: he's at home by himself for a couple of days

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Speaker 3: and then something happens on the Sunday. What happens on

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Speaker 3: the Sunday, Well, he wakes up he is so unwell

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Speaker 3: and it needs to go to the toilet, but he

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Speaker 3: can't get himself there. So he says, around about sunrise,

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Speaker 3: he calls up Eron and asks if she can come

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Speaker 3: over to his house to help him get to the

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Speaker 3: toilet because he can't make it right.

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Speaker 2: He's at home and he invites Erin to come and

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Speaker 2: basically help him, help him. Yeah, because he is that sick.

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Speaker 3: Is that sick?

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Speaker 2: So this is what Simon Patterson said in pre trial

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Speaker 2: to Aaron Patterson's lawyer, the barrister Coln Mandy. These are

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Speaker 2: his words, but it is not his voice.

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Speaker 4: I remember calling her before sunrise. It felt very early,

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Speaker 4: let's put it that way. I recall telling her that

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Speaker 4: I'd been having trouble getting myself to the toilet. I

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Speaker 4: asked her to come over and help me to get

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Speaker 4: to the toilet.

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Speaker 5: She came over straight away, to your recollection.

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Speaker 4: It didn't feel like that. It was a long time.

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Speaker 5: When she got to your house, she called Triple zero.

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Speaker 4: All I really remember is she came into the bedroom.

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Speaker 4: I saw her come in. We exchanged a greeting. I

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Speaker 4: was sitting on the end of the bed. I lay

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Speaker 4: back on the bed, and that's the last thing I remember.

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Speaker 5: Did you hear her on the phone to Triple zero. No,

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Speaker 5: Apart from her coming into the room and exchanging some

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Speaker 5: kind of greeting, that's where your memory ends. What's the

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Speaker 5: next thing you recall.

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Speaker 4: I can recall being on a trolley in the hospital

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Speaker 4: and Aaron trying to attract attention of a medical staff

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Speaker 4: and that person rushing off.

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Speaker 2: So as Aaron enters the house, she's found Simon quite ill,

255
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Speaker 2: and she calls Triple zero.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Simon says, as you heard just then, he

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Speaker 3: can recall that she's come into the bedroom and he's

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Speaker 3: passed out. So from then on, what we understand from

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Speaker 3: his evidence in court is that he's unconscious when he

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Speaker 3: goes to the hospital, and when he's there he has

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Speaker 3: repeated life saving surgeries, including one major surgery to remove

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Speaker 3: a lie large section of his bow, all of which

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Speaker 3: because Aaron is his next of kin, the doctors have

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Speaker 3: had to contact Eron and ask her permission to perform

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Speaker 3: these life saving operations. And she's given that permission, and

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Speaker 3: then Simon's had the surgeries and he's spent then a

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Speaker 3: very long time recuperating from this life saving surgery.

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Speaker 2: Okay, this has gone well past gastro suspicions. At this point.

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Speaker 2: He's having multiple surgeries to save his life. YEA, is

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Speaker 2: he suspicious? If he was suspicious the first time, he's

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Speaker 2: got to be very suspicious now.

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Speaker 3: He says, the first time across his mind, and he

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Speaker 3: made a joke. But he doesn't say after this illness

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Speaker 3: that it crossed his mind again. It didn't come up

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Speaker 3: again because after this illness, after he spends a lengthy

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Speaker 3: amount of time in hospital, he's discharged to Aaron's home.

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Speaker 3: He's still quite unwell. When he's discharged from hospital. He

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Speaker 3: says that he can't walk up the stairs and he

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Speaker 3: can't drive. So Aaron invites him to come and move

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Speaker 3: into the Langatha home with her and the kids so

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Speaker 3: that she can help care for him, and he moves

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Speaker 3: into a bedroom underneath her bedroom on a multi level house,

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Speaker 3: and within weeks he says that he starts to feel stronger,

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Speaker 3: he can drive again, he can walk upstairs again. But

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Speaker 3: then he falls sick again.

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Speaker 2: So we're in July twenty twenty two, and we're now

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Speaker 2: moving to a part of the story which we call

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Speaker 2: a special stew, a special stew. What's this special stew ash?

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Speaker 3: It's a beef stew and it's special because Simon says

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Speaker 3: that Aaron makes him this special stew for lunch one day,

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Speaker 3: just for him, and he calls it an unusual activity

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Speaker 3: that she would make this lunch for him specially. So

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Speaker 3: what he says in court is that she had specially

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Speaker 3: made some stew for me to have.

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Speaker 2: So I appreciated that, okay, And within five hours he's

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Speaker 2: sick again.

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Speaker 3: He's sick again, feeling nauseous, yeah, starts to feel nauseous.

298
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Speaker 2: Vomiting yep, diarrhea yep. Okay. So he's experienced all this before, okay,

299
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Speaker 2: and now it's happening again.

300
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Speaker 3: It's happening again, and so what he does is it's

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Speaker 3: happening in the evening and when he's in his own bedroom,

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Speaker 3: and he says that he grabs his phone. He calls Eron,

303
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Speaker 3: who's in the bedroom above, and they have a conversation

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Speaker 3: about what to do because the kids are at home.

305
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Speaker 3: They're in bed, so she can't drive him off to

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Speaker 3: hospital because we can't leave the kids by themselves. So

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Speaker 3: they decide to call Don and Gaiale, his parents, Don

308
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Speaker 3: and Gal Patterson, and ask them to come and pick

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Speaker 3: him up and take him to hospital.

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Speaker 2: So we are in July of twenty twenty two when

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Speaker 2: this special stew is made for him and he eats it. Yep, okay,

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Speaker 2: so we're quite laid in the piece for about a

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Speaker 2: year before the lunch.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it is. It's almost would be fatal, almost exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay. So Simon's parents taking the hospital. He's

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Speaker 2: obviously discharged and he returns to Aaron's house for two weeks.

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Speaker 3: He goes to hospital. He's on a drip. And I'll

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Speaker 3: point out this is an illness that Aaron Patterson was

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Speaker 3: never charged over, so it mustn't have been as serious

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Speaker 3: as other illnesses that Simon Patterson suffered. And they believed,

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Speaker 3: or they'd accused Aaron of attempting to murder him. So

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Speaker 3: he comes back to Aaron Patterson's house for about two weeks,

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Speaker 3: and after that two weeks, he says, he started to

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Speaker 3: realize he didn't think that Aaron wanted him there.

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Speaker 2: They start to fight and she becomes irritated with him.

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Speaker 3: Is that right? Yeah, she does well. Simon says that

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Speaker 3: she basically goes on this tirade. She comes into his

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Speaker 3: bedroom and she's frustrated with him, and among the things

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Speaker 3: that he says that she tells him is that she's

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Speaker 3: upset him. He spends too much time in bed, he

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Speaker 3: hasn't been helping around the house. He'd only get up

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Speaker 3: to make his own food, which at that stage, he

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Speaker 3: said he'd often get up and make himself a ham,

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Speaker 3: cheese and tomato toasted sandwich. He said this was not

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Speaker 3: her word that she used, but it was about the

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Speaker 3: spirit of it, but that he'd been a bit dictatorial

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Speaker 3: with asking her to bring his phone charge.

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Speaker 2: Out that she says he's ordering her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's in hospital and he says, can you bring

340
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Speaker 3: me my phone? Yeah, and she has to bring it

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Speaker 3: to the hospital. This is what he says to the court.

342
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Speaker 3: He says he paused for quite a long time, he says,

343
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Speaker 3: I wasn't sure how to respond, and then I said

344
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Speaker 3: to her, I'm sorry to hear you feel that way,

345
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Speaker 3: and then she stormed out.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and does he feel like he's somewhat captive to her?

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Speaker 3: Or well, the thing is here, he leaves, he leaves,

348
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Speaker 3: So in.

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Speaker 2: The end, I mean, it might be a stupid question,

350
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Speaker 2: but what did he decide to leave?

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Speaker 3: Well, he said that at that point it was clear

352
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Speaker 3: to him that it wasn't wise for him to keep

353
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Speaker 3: staying there. And he also agreed with Aaron Patterson's defense lawyer,

354
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Speaker 3: Colin Mandy, that he was there in the hope that

355
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Speaker 3: they would reunite, that they'd get back together, but after

356
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Speaker 3: this situation that hope had diminished.

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Speaker 2: So that had been a common theme right up to

358
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Speaker 2: this point. He was always trying to reconcile.

359
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Speaker 3: Thinking in the back of his mind that they would

360
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Speaker 3: get back together. But at this point, he said, he

361
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 3: thought it was done.

362
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Speaker 2: And yet there is a third trip.

363
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is there is a third trip. Simon said

364
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Speaker 3: that after the issues on the first two camping trips,

365
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 3: Aaron again suggests another camping trip, this time in September

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00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, and they would go again to Wilson's prom.

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Speaker 2: Who brought the food this time? Aaron brought the food again.

368
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 3: Every time she's brought the food, and this was a

369
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Speaker 3: point in court. Colin Mandy asked, were you involved in

370
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 3: preparing the food? Did you bring the food? And he

371
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,120
Speaker 3: said no, Aaron was bringing food.

372
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Speaker 2: So let me get this straight. He has, for one

373
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,400
Speaker 2: of a better word, escaped the house. He thinks it's over.

374
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Speaker 3: Yep.

375
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Speaker 2: She suggests a third trip, another trip, but before this

376
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Speaker 2: she had been giving him the cold shoulder as well.

377
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Speaker 3: Yeah, he said that. After the tirade for one of

378
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,200
Speaker 3: a better word, and in his bedroom when she came

379
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:34,919
Speaker 3: in and had to go at all the things that

380
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 3: he wasn't doing, he said that she was cold shouldered

381
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Speaker 3: towards him. And he moved out, and he moved into

382
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Speaker 3: his parents' place. He was recuperating at his parents place

383
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:46,240
Speaker 3: for a little while.

384
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Speaker 2: And then he goes to Wilson's Prom with her again.

385
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Speaker 3: In September twenty twenty two.

386
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Speaker 2: And Aaron's bringing the food.

387
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 3: Aaron's bringing the food.

388
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,439
Speaker 2: Okay, So they sat at a picnic table in the

389
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:04,919
Speaker 2: title where Eron's handed him a vegetable curry rap in

390
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 2: aliminium foil.

391
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, So he said, they're sitting at the picnic table

392
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 3: and she brings him a rap, hands it to him.

393
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,239
Speaker 3: It's in aluminum foil. And said that she had the

394
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 3: same ingredients that was in his rap, but not in

395
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 3: a rap. So she had the stuff that was inside,

396
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 3: but she didn't have it wrapped.

397
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,920
Speaker 2: Up in a rap, So hers isn't in an aliminum foil.

398
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:31,199
Speaker 3: No, he didn't describe how hers was prepared, But to

399
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 3: my mind, it made me think that she's got a

400
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 3: container that has vegetables and curry. She's just eating it

401
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 3: out of container, whereas he has these things contained in

402
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 3: a rap.

403
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 2: And how's he feeling at this point.

404
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 3: Well, okay, when he eats the rap. And then they

405
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,399
Speaker 3: finished their lunch, they pack up everything, and they decided

406
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,399
Speaker 3: to go on a short walk on the beach. And

407
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,679
Speaker 3: he said that he felt a little bit unwell, but

408
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,360
Speaker 3: he felt he things weren't quite right.

409
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,679
Speaker 2: But that's is this a romantic walk on the beach

410
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: like at Wilson's Price.

411
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 3: It's not how he described it.

412
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 5: Right.

413
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 3: Things that are happening at the same time. He's an

414
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 3: avid photographer. He's taking photos of birds, they saw a snake. Yep,

415
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 3: they're going to see a waterfall, right, so nature lovers

416
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 3: are supposed to the romance have to come in to play.

417
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 2: Well, they're previously married, so and he's always trying to reconcile,

418
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 2: so and they're alone.

419
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 3: But he did say that only a couple months later

420
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 3: he felt that that hope was diminished.

421
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 2: So maybe, so let's get back to what happens to

422
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 2: him on this trip. He goes into spasms, Yeah, he does.

423
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 3: He says that he starts fitting and that's actually at

424
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 3: his parents house. So he becomes unwell on this walk

425
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 3: and he says he's not feeling good. So they decide

426
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 3: to cut their trip short and instead of continuing on,

427
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 3: they drive to his parents, Don and Gale's house. And

428
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 3: he said when they get there at the car, he's

429
00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 3: greeted by his parents and his son and he says, Tom,

430
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 3: I need a bed and a bucket. I'm not feeling

431
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 3: very well. And how he remembers it, he's leaning on

432
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 3: his son to get him help to get to the bedroom.

433
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 3: And when he's there, the decision is made to make

434
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 3: a call to the ambulance to get paramedics to come

435
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 3: and get him as should.

436
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 2: This time, he starts slurring his words.

437
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. First off, he says that his body starts to

438
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 3: go into convulsions, he starts fitting, and when the paramedics arrive,

439
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 3: he said he's strong enough to get himself onto the trolley,

440
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 3: but then when he's in the ambulance, he starts to

441
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 3: lose more and more muscle function. And he said that

442
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 3: by the end of the trip, all he could move

443
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 3: was his neck, his tongue, and his lips, so the

444
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 3: rest of his body he lost control over.

445
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 2: So at this point, there hasn't been a diagnosis of

446
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 2: poisoning at this.

447
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 3: Age for none of them. For all of his illnesses,

448
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 3: he says he's either assumed that he had gastro and

449
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 3: he didn't get any affirmation from any doctors. He wasn't

450
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 3: told that he didn't have that, but he's never given

451
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 3: an actual diagnosis. They can't work out what is wrong

452
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 3: with him. And he said that doctors have tried and

453
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 3: tested him for many things and they can't work out

454
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 3: what's making him sick. So they're treating his symptoms, but

455
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 3: they can't work out what's causing them.

456
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 2: But ultimately an expert will come along and say this

457
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 2: illness was consistent with rat poisoning.

458
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. So this is another section of the court saga

459
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 3: that happened before the trial that the community has not

460
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 3: heard so far. The prosecution team went to the Court

461
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 3: of Appeal and you'll hear all that, I believe in

462
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 3: another episode that we do about what the jury didn't hear.

463
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 3: They went to the Court of Appeal and they were

464
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 3: trying to get Simon's charges brought back into the murder

465
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 3: trump and there was a few other issues with evidence

466
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 3: that was removed, and the prosecution said to the Court

467
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 3: of Appeal judges panel that they had an expert who

468
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 3: would say that this illness was consistent with rat poison.

469
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: Okay, so post the charges of triple murder, they've looked

470
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: more deeply into these ledged poisonings of Simon Patterson, and

471
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,479
Speaker 2: in this third trip they have some sort of expert

472
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 2: analysis which suggests this could be rat poisoning. This last

473
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 2: trip to Wilson's prom has the elements of rat poisoning.

474
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 3: That's what they said.

475
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, so after this third trip, which occurs

476
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 2: in September of twenty twenty two, he is pretty sus

477
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 2: by then.

478
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, sas, Yeah, his thinking starts to change,

479
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 3: but he confides in family and we'll get to what

480
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 3: family members he told when what they said to him.

481
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: But he's not convinced. He's dissuaded basically that this could

482
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 3: be a deliberate poisoning. Even though he thinks it might

483
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 3: be the case, he's dissuaded by his family members, and

484
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 3: he said it's not until his cousin Tim Patterson comes

485
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 3: to him of his own accord and says to him,

486
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 3: I think that Aaron might be poisoning you because every

487
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 3: time you've been sick, you've been eating food with her,

488
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 3: food that she's prepared. And he said that was the

489
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 3: turning point when his cousin Tim said to him, I

490
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 3: think Aaron might be poisoning him.

491
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 2: And he's also seen a GP a doctor who has

492
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 2: suggested to him to make a spreadsheet.

493
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. So a witness that the jury never heard from

494
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 3: is a man by the name of doctor Chris Ford.

495
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: And doctor Ford was a Carnboro Baptist church member, so

496
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: they went to church together.

497
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 3: They went to church together that they were friends, yep,

498
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 3: and they also did Bible study together.

499
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 2: Okay, so Simon makes a spreadsheet. How does it help him?

500
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 3: So they're trying to work out, after his fourth illness,

501
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 3: what's going on here, what's causing these illnesses? So doctor

502
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 3: Ford says, why don't you make a spreadsheet of all

503
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 3: the things that you did and all the things that

504
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 3: he ate before you became sick. So Simon's and his

505
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 3: parents placed on in Gaale where he's staying to recuperate,

506
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 3: and he starts to put together this spreadsheet.

507
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: And here we have voice actors re enacting the conversation

508
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,479
Speaker 2: he had about that spreadsheet with Prosecutor Jane Warren.

509
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 6: You ask questions today by mister Mandy about the spreadsheet

510
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 6: you prepared to try and find any common denominators in

511
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 6: your illnesses? Did you identify any?

512
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 4: I was aware Aaron had prepared the food I'd eat

513
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 4: and shortly before each illness, being with Arin Pryor, and

514
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 4: also being about in nature or just about to that's

515
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 4: probably a bit more alternative the first one. We weren't

516
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 4: in nature yet. I noticed that.

517
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 6: When you went through that process, What if any impact

518
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 6: did that have on your suspicion in relation to Aaron

519
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 6: poisoning you?

520
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 4: When I made the spreadsheet and what I came up

521
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 4: with was my thought, this could appear to be someone

522
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 4: else looking at this, that Aaron was the ash.

523
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: You've just brought up this turning point, and it comes

524
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 2: when he talks to his cousin, Tim Patterson, and he's

525
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: raises his suspicions with Simon that Eron may be poisoning him.

526
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: So it's Tim that's telling Simon what he already what.

527
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 3: He suspects, what Simon has in the back of his head.

528
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 3: Tim comes to him and affirms that for him, and

529
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,719
Speaker 3: after his cousin Tim says this, he starts taking it

530
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 3: more seriously. He says that he respects his cousin Tim,

531
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 3: and when Tim says something, take it seriously, okay.

532
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: And this coincides correct me if I'm wrong with another

533
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: pivotal point in Aaron Patterson and Simon Patterson's relationship, where

534
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 2: Eron finds a tax return in which Simon says that

535
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 2: he's separated from her the first time. For the first time,

536
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: he's making it publicly official in a government record that

537
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 2: they're separated, which has some financial implications for her.

538
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 3: So lots of things are happening at this time.

539
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 2: So it's it's cooling between them.

540
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 3: It's cooling yeah. Yeah, So he notices that their relationship

541
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 3: that used to be quite chatty has called off. And

542
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 3: it's after they have this dispute about his tax return

543
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 3: where she's noticed that he's listed himself as single, which

544
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 3: means that they have all these repercussions with how they

545
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 3: organize the finances.

546
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: And tax implications and things like that. And we start

547
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: to move pretty rapidly at this point because in November

548
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two, so just a few months later,

549
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: we're in the same period time, Simon's at his parents'

550
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 2: house and he's a chat to Don, his father. What's

551
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 2: that all about?

552
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 3: Simon recalls having a chat with his father at his parents' house.

553
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 3: His mom, Gail's father is Don Don Patterson, who dies

554
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 3: from the mushroom lunch. He recalls his mother's not there,

555
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 3: and he has a chat with his father in November

556
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two and says to his dad that he

557
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 3: thinks that Aaron has been deliberately poisoning his food.

558
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: So, in November of twenty twenty two, Don is told

559
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 2: of this suspicion of food poisoning.

560
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he has an interesting response, what's that? Simon

561
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 3: says his father was very thoughtful and then he said

562
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 3: to him, I suggest you don't tell too many people

563
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 3: about that, okay.

564
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: And Simon also confides in his brother Matt.

565
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 3: He does there at a gig in Saint Kilda at

566
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 3: the Palais Theater Ben Harper Concert. It's in February twenty

567
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 3: twenty three, right, and he said that he talked to

568
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 3: his brother about his suspicions. And his brother also gave

569
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 3: evidence in pre trial hearings about this conversation, and he

570
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: said that he assumed that Simon's nervousness in catching up

571
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 3: with Aaron might have been the cause of his problems,

572
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 3: his illnesses. So it was his nervousness that caused these

573
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 3: issues for his health.

574
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 2: And at about the same time, Simon's concerns persist and

575
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 2: he tells doctor Chris Ford. What's he tell him?

576
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 3: Doctor Chris Ford is his friend and.

577
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: He's jap one from Cabarra.

578
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 3: That's the one from Cambra, from Carambra, a Baptist. He's

579
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 3: the one that's told him to put together this spreadsheet, yes,

580
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: of things that are making him sick. So he says

581
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 3: that he has a consultation with doctor Ford in February

582
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, I think he's the twenty first of

583
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 3: feb and tells him about his poisoning suspicions. Doctor Ford's

584
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 3: evidence on this, he gave evidence in pretrial to his

585
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: evidence was that Simon had told him that Aaron and

586
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: their daughter had made him some cookies and given him

587
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 3: these cookies.

588
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: And so Simon receives cookies from his daughter.

589
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's told that Aaron and the daughter have made

590
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 3: them together, and Aaron gets in contact with him and

591
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 3: asks him if he's eaten the cookies, and he says

592
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 3: that she's quite persistent.

593
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 2: So she's encouraging him again.

594
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. Doctor Ford says that Simon told him Aaron called

595
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: several times asking him whether he'd eaten any of the cookies,

596
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 3: and Simon thought it was odd that she'd be so

597
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 3: focused on eating the cookies. And in the end he

598
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 3: took a nibble and then he threw the rest out

599
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 3: because he was concerned that they might have been poisoned.

600
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 2: Does he Quizer about it, does Simon Quizzy's wife?

601
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 3: No, he doesn't, but he does start doing some research

602
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 3: on the internet about what poisons could go in cookies,

603
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 3: and then works out that he can't test for these

604
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 3: things himself, so doesn't bother with that, but he starts

605
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:44,479
Speaker 3: looking into it.

606
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 2: I assume he's so worried that this is the point

607
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: in time when he changes his power of attorney.

608
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this consultation, it goes for about fifty minutes,

609
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 3: it's pretty long. And after this consult doctor Ford said,

610
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 3: Simon decide to change his medical power of attorney to

611
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 3: remove Erin as the decision maker when he has a

612
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 3: life and death experience and to put someone else in place.

613
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 2: And that's Donnie's father.

614
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's don who he's confided in about his poisoning

615
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 3: suspicions four months earlier. And he also has a second

616
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 3: medical power of attorney and that's his brother Matt.

617
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 2: And this is five months before the fatal lunch in

618
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: July twenty twenty three.

619
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think it's almost on the same day

620
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 3: as the conversation with doctor Ford. At the consultation, he

621
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 3: gets his dad don to sign on a legal document

622
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 3: to sign on as his medical power of attorney.

623
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: So from here on in for Simon, Eron's food is out.

624
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 3: Simon does not eat another one of Aaron Patterson's meals

625
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 3: after that point. Aaron's food is no longer on the menu.

626
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 3: Simon was asked by Colin Mandy, Aeron's defense lawyer, what

627
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 3: his father's reaction was when he told him of his

628
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 3: poisoning suspicions. This is their interaction.

629
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 5: You said you had told Don about your suspicions previously.

630
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 4: Do you remember I think I told him about November.

631
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 5: Do you remember that conversation where it was It was

632
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 5: it mum and Dad's house? Was your mom present?

633
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 7: No?

634
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 5: Just you and your father?

635
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 4: Yes?

636
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 5: What was his reaction?

637
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 4: He was very thoughtful, Can I have some tissues? And

638
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 4: he said, I suggest you don't tell too many people

639
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 4: about that.

640
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 5: Did he tell you why that was his advice?

641
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 3: No?

642
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 5: Did you understand why that was his advice?

643
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 4: I thought I had a reasonable sense of why I

644
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 4: said that, probably because that could create issues in the

645
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 4: way people relate, especially probably with Aaron and our family.

646
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 5: Ash.

647
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 2: We will get to the fatal lunch very shortly, But

648
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: what our listeners may not know is that Aaron Pattison

649
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: invited her estranged husband Simon to a lunch about a

650
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 2: month prior to that. This is a lunch in the

651
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 2: sort of June July of twenty three.

652
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 3: This is a about a month before the deadly lunch. Okay,

653
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 3: Aaron Patterson invites her estranger in laws John and Gail

654
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 3: to Emil with her kids, and she also invites Simon and.

655
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 2: To give a reason for the lunch given the state

656
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: of affairs.

657
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 3: Simon doesn't remember there ever being a reason, just to

658
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 3: have lunch, catch up, catch up. But he refused that invitation,

659
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 3: and he was asked in court by the prosecution why

660
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 3: he refused, and this is what he said.

661
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 4: I thought there would be a risk she would poison

662
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 4: me if I attended.

663
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 2: So Simon's position is firm. He is very suspicious are

664
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 2: erin and believes that he is being poisoned by her.

665
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 3: He thinks she's repeatedly tried to kill him.

666
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yet there is another invitation for a lunch

667
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: on July twenty nine, twenty twenty three, that is offered

668
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 2: to his parents, Done Gale, to his uncle and art

669
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,959
Speaker 2: Ian and Heather Wilkinson, and to him.

670
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 3: So this happens at church at Crumborough Baptist Church. Simon

671
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 3: recalled Aaron came up to him after the church service

672
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 3: and invited him to this what we're now calling the

673
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 3: lethal lunch, the Lethal Mushroom lunch. He was with doctor

674
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 3: Chris Ford, and doctor Ford also gave pre trial evidence

675
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 3: about this, saying he saw Aaron walk up to them.

676
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 3: Doctor Ford is also their daughter's general practitioner, was at

677
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 3: that stage. Aaron confirmed an appointment with doctor Ford and

678
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 3: then turned to Simon and said, I'm hosting this lunch.

679
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 3: Would you like to come? And his reply, according to

680
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 3: doctor Ford, was thank you. And she walked away, and

681
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 3: doctor Ford said after she walked away, Simon turned to

682
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 3: him and said, I'll be politely declining.

683
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 2: Okay, but his parents have been invited and he's I'm

684
00:36:55,080 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 2: Glen Art. Now Don knows. Don Patterson knows by then,

685
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 2: He's known for months that his son is suspicious, that

686
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 2: he's been poisoned.

687
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 3: And Don does not tell his wife, Gail.

688
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 2: And he doesn't tell Ian and Heather No, who don't

689
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 2: know Eron all.

690
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 3: That well, they don't know. Three of the lunch guests

691
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 3: do not know about Simon's suspicions. The only person who

692
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 3: does is Don Patterson, who eats his entire meal and

693
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 3: his wife's leftovers of that fateful meal.

694
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: They all drive together to this lunch. Don and Gail

695
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: pick up Ian and Heather and they all drive together

696
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: in a car, and it's not even mentioned.

697
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 3: We heard evidence from Ian, it didn't come up from

698
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 3: what he said in pre trial hearings. It was not raised.

699
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 3: The first time Ian said he heard about poisoning suspicions

700
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 3: was the day that he was sick. After the lunch,

701
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 3: he and his wife and Simon on their door and

702
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 3: urged them to go to hospital. They believe they just

703
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 3: had gastro urged them to go to hospital, saying, Simon saying,

704
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 3: I believe that she's tried to poison me. You need

705
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 3: to go to hospital.

706
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: And this is sparked conversation which the jury heard, which

707
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 2: was about the plates, the plates.

708
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 3: Heather Her response to Simon saying, I think she's tried

709
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 3: to poison me. You have to go to hospital. Heather's

710
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 3: response was, I noticed the plates, the plates she ate

711
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 3: off a different plate.

712
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 2: Okay, So that just hasn't come out of nowhere. That's

713
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 2: because Simon.

714
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 3: Has made this claim yet prompted.

715
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: This conversation that they might have been poisoned.

716
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 3: Basically yep, and he's so worried he thinks that they

717
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 3: must go to hospital, and he drives them himself to hospital, but.

718
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: Of course he won't know what kind of poisoning.

719
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 3: Well, they don't know what kind of issues has caused

720
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 3: him to be sick either.

721
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: Now we're in a scenario where Simon will be high

722
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 2: and by all of this sickness, because he'll have a

723
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: deep suspicion about what is going on. He takes his

724
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 2: uncle and aunt from their home to Lee and gath

725
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 2: the hospital, and he also goes and visits his parents

726
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: who are in corn Borough Hospital. And Don will have

727
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: obviously knowledge of what his son has told him. So Don,

728
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 2: what does Don do?

729
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 3: Don, according to what the court heard, collects his own

730
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 3: vomit in ajar and takes it to the hospital. So

731
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 3: Simon gave evidence saying that after he learned that his

732
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 3: loved ones were sick, he called doctor Ford, who had

733
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 3: said to him if Simon ever became ill again that

734
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 3: they would make sure they did toxicology testing.

735
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 2: This is his mate, doctor Ford.

736
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 3: This is his mate who's helped him with the spreadsheet,

737
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,280
Speaker 3: who he's told about these cookies, and.

738
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 2: So he knows he's got a suspicion as well.

739
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 3: Doctor Ford's also helped him change his medical power of

740
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 3: attorney to Don yep. So after Simon tells doctor Ford

741
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 3: about what's happened after this lunch, everyone's sick. Doctor Ford

742
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,479
Speaker 3: races over to caren Borough Hospital where Don and Gaie

743
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 3: are and he says that he sees Don and has

744
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 3: this conversation with him, and Don is holding a jar

745
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 3: of his own vomit and Don says to him, what

746
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 3: do I do with this jar? I've got this sample?

747
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 3: What should I do with it? Chris? And doctor Ford

748
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 3: said he replied, hold on to it because it could

749
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: be useful later. And Doctor Ford told the court that

750
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 3: he presumed that Don had kept that because he thought

751
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 3: that it could be evidence, because he assumed that he'd

752
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 3: been deliberately poisoned.

753
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 2: So the jigsaw puzzle is now coming together. We've got

754
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: four people in hospital, Don, gail Ian and Heather, all

755
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 2: aged sixty six and above. We've got Simon Patterson who's

756
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: believes he's been poisoned on moultiple occasions. And Erin where's Erin?

757
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 3: Erin's at home?

758
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 2: And what's she doing that day? She is July the.

759
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 3: Thirtieth, July the thirtieth, two twenty three, she drives her son.

760
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 2: To a pilot Lesson Yeah, and taiab.

761
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, an hour and a half drive away, isn't.

762
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 2: It And it's canceled.

763
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, goes all the way there, finds out it's canceled

764
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: and has to drive all the way back.

765
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: That's the one where she has stop at the service station,

766
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 2: goes into the toilet for nine seconds.

767
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, nine seconds toilet stop.

768
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 2: And is erin sick.

769
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 3: She tells Simon that she's been suffering from diarrhea, and

770
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 3: Simon relays this to doctor Ford, and then doctor Ford

771
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 3: relays this to the doctors that are treating all of

772
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 3: Simon's sick loved ones in hospital. Because the conversation is

773
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 3: is the cook unwell? And doctor Ford says, well, she's

774
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 3: got Apparently it's just mild. Apparently she's sick, but it's.

775
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 2: Mild, so the cook is only a little unwell, a

776
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 2: little unwell. Simon goes back to Cranborough Hospital.

777
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 3: He goes to visit his parents and he said that

778
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 3: for the first time, his mother, Gail, learns about his

779
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 3: suspicions that Aaron had been poisoning him.

780
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:18,760
Speaker 2: What's her reaction?

781
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 3: He says that his father had raised it and told

782
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 3: him that he'd told.

783
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: His mother about Don tells Gail.

784
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 3: Don tells Gail that their son believed that Aaron was

785
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 3: the cause of his repeated illnesses.

786
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 2: And might be the cause of this one, and.

787
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 3: Gail's response is that she was thinking that it was

788
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 3: probably more likely accidental.

789
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 2: Now the kids then decide, so the Patterson children, Simon's siblings,

790
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: then have a get together.

791
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 3: Simon's called a meeting.

792
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 2: Okay, and where's the meeting.

793
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 3: So by this time, all of the lunch guests except

794
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 3: Aaron are at the Austin hospital getting treatment.

795
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 2: This is days later.

796
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is on the third of August.

797
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 2: Okay, August three, so that's four days, five days after lunch.

798
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 3: So as the lunch guests are getting sicker and sicker,

799
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 3: there are whispers among the siblings, both of the Wilkinson

800
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 3: siblings and the Patterson siblings about what could have caused

801
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 3: this situation, and there's commentary that Simon believed that he's

802
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 3: been deliberately poisoned by Erin.

803
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 2: So they have what we could term the chapel meeting.

804
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 3: The chapel meeting. As the whispers swirl, Simon calls a

805
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,399
Speaker 3: meeting of all of the cousins and the siblings and

806
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 3: they meet in the Austin Hospital chapel.

807
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 2: So they all get together for what has been called

808
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 2: the Chapel meeting.

809
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 3: Simon calls a meeting of his cousins and his siblings.

810
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 3: I believe it's the day before. Heather and Gail pass

811
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 3: Away and Ruth Deubois, the Wilkinson's daughter, tells a pre

812
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 3: trial hearing that Simon gathers everybody together and says to

813
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 3: them that he'd suspected that his own illnesses had been

814
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 3: a deliberate poisoning. He'd stopped eating Aaron's food, and he

815
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 3: was sorry that he hadn't told the lunch guests, but

816
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 3: he thought that they were safe and that he was

817
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 3: the only person that Aaron was targeting.

818
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 2: So he believed he was the target and she would

819
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: never hurt his family.

820
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 3: That's what he said to his loved ones. And the

821
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 3: next day, Simon's loved ones walked into Hardelberg.

822
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 2: Police station and they give a tell all statement.

823
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 3: They tell the police that they think Aaron has tried

824
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 3: to kill their family.

825
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: And interestingly, as this trial got under way and Simon

826
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 2: Patterson had a bit of a conversation with the judge

827
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 2: while the jury wasn't present, so we can't report this

828
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 2: stuff while the trial's underway, but we can talk about

829
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 2: it now. And he basically told the judge that he

830
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 2: felt this whole awful time, his illnesses, the way the

831
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 2: justice system had treated him, he felt was in a

832
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 2: way unfair.

833
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said that he did not understand why his

834
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 3: charges were dropped. He said it was seemed bizarre to me,

835
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 3: is what he said. Bizarre that his charges were dropped.

836
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 3: And when he was giving evidence in the triple murder trial,

837
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 3: there was a lot that he couldn't say. He called

838
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 3: it non evidence.

839
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 2: That is got to be difficult for anyone in his

840
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 2: position to be in the witness box being asked questions,

841
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: some open ended questions, and he can't tell them what

842
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 2: he knows.

843
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 3: Here's Simon's conversation with Justice Christopher Biale.

844
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 7: Once you've completed giving your evidence, you're free to be

845
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 7: present in court if you wish, or to watch the

846
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 7: live stream of the rest of the case.

847
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 4: I understand and I appreciate that. Thank you all the

848
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 4: hearings that's led up to this, all the discussions about

849
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 4: the way we got to this point here where I'm

850
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 4: sitting here half thinking about the things I'm not allowed

851
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 4: to talk about and I understand I don't actually understand

852
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 4: why it seems bizarre to me, but it is what

853
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 4: it is, Your honor, Would you be able to make

854
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 4: available after all the legal proceedings are finished, the transcripts

855
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 4: of all those hearings, including the trial, for me to

856
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 4: be able to as I grieve the legal process to

857
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 4: help me deal with that grief over it will take

858
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 4: me years.

859
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 7: Can I have the opportunity to think about that request?

860
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 7: I certainly don't take a negative view of that request,

861
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 7: but I'd like to consider it before making a final

862
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 7: decision about that.

863
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 2: Is that all right?

864
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 4: Thank you, your honor. Yes, for me, it's really important,

865
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 4: So I thank you that you'll consider that. And I

866
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 4: suspect some of the family, especially the ones who are witnesses,

867
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 4: would probably appreciate the same.

868
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 2: Ash As an observer of our justice system and having

869
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 2: sat through all the hearing, to the pre trial hearing,

870
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 2: the trial, what does this process all say to you?

871
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 3: I think it says that the jury will be blind

872
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 3: to a lot of things that has been ruled inadmissible.

873
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,439
Speaker 3: There is a lot of stuff that the jury will

874
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 3: never know until after they've reached their verdict and those

875
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 3: things could be very important context. They could explain a

876
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 3: lot of things, but they have been ruled by the

877
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 3: judge to be inadmissible, so.

878
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 2: They go to the jury room not knowing the full story.

879
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 3: It's a weird facet of our justice system that there's

880
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 3: a lot of information that does not go before the jury,

881
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 3: and in this trial, more than in a lot of

882
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 3: other trials that I've seen, the jury will only hear

883
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 3: what the judge has decided that they can hear, but

884
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 3: they'll be hearing about those missing pieces right now.

885
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: The charges laid against Darren Patterson for poisoning her estranged

886
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 2: husband Simon have been withdrawn and in most cases they

887
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 2: never come back, but there are rare occasions where they

888
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 2: can be refiled.

889
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 3: So it's likely we'll never hear what happened to Simon

890
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 3: unless he writes a tell or.

891
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 2: Book, which probably going to be the case.

892
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 3: It could happen.

893
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: Thanks Dows and Ash Now a bit of housekeeping throughout

894
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: the trial. We've had quite a few questions about where

895
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: Season one of The Mushroom cook had gone because it

896
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 1: talked to the charges relating to the attempted murder of

897
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,919
Speaker 1: Simon and other things not before the jury. We made

898
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: the decision to unpublish it before the trial, but now

899
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: we can open it up again, So from tomorrow you'll

900
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: be able to listen to the entire first season of

901
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: The Mushroom Cook wherever you get your podcasts.