WEBVTT - Amy Remeikis on Australia's critical minerals bargaining chip 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:10.360 Hi, I'm Daniel James, and you're listening the seven Am. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:13.560 Australia is positioning itself as a critical supplier of the 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:17.279 minerals the world needs to build clean technology, but for 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:21.200 now China dominates the market and its griplin supply chains 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:25.320 gives it enormous leverage. At the same time, the Albanesi 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.000 government is racing China to shore up its influence in 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.680 the Pacific, a region already feeling the sharpest impacts of 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:36.400 climate change. Today, Contributing editor at The New Daily, Amy 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:40.040 Ramikus on the high stakes contest for influence in our 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:44.240 region and how Australia's broken climate promises are holding us back. 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:57.640 It's Friday, July fourth, Amy, thank you for joining us. 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:01.760 Penny Wong has been at the Quad in Washington. What 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:02.600 was on the agenda? 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:04.520 The agenda was, you. 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:09.120 Know, all the usual stuff, so security packs. Working together 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.440 these very important countries is a very important strategic partners 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:14.440 and allies of the United States, and. 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.920 Together we have a lot of shared priorities. 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:19.680 A lot of things, a lot of talk about, you know, 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:23.639 the country that's responsible for the Quad and the reason 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.560 that everyone's all there, without that country actually being named. 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.759 The importance of our partnership is highlighted by the urgency 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:33.959 of the strategic challenges that we all face. 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:37.240 Which is China the giant elephant in the Quad room. 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.560 It is essential that nations of the Indoor Pacific have 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:46.840 the freedom of choice, so essential to make right decisions 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:48.600 on development and security. 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:53.200 And then they got around to, you know, one of 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:57.840 the big issues for the future, particularly for the Quad nations, 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.760 which is critical minerals. 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.560 Clinical minerals not just access to the raw material, but 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.640 also access to the ability to process and refine it 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:08.840 to usable materials. 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:14.240 And more importantly, what they're calling the Quad Critical Minerals Initiative, 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:18.800 which is basically those countries coming together to kind of 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:23.079 establish their own supply chain for critical minerals that does 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:24.520 not involve China. 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:28.720 So we've been hearing a lot about critical minerals lately. 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.239 Why are they so critical right now when it comes 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:33.680 to dealing with the US. 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:36.920 Well, they're very well named critical minerals, aren't they. 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:39.799 A quick rundown on what. 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.960 Critical minerals are just so we can talk about why 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:46.359 exactly they are so important. So it's anything that is 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:48.440 needed for new technology. 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:50.640 So we're talking batteries, we're. 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:54.639 Talking evs, fiber optic cables, anything that you can think 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.080 of that is modern technology relies on this big group 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:01.640 of things that we call critical mineral and rare earths, 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:07.160 and Australia has about thirty six of the fifty identified critical. 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:08.919 Minerals, so we're doing okay. 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:14.880 But China is still absolutely dominating in that space, particularly lithium, 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.360 which is one of the big things that you need 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.600 to create batteries, which is what most of the world 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:26.239 is transitioning towards. China not only mindes lithium and has 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:31.600 pretty great stockpiles of critical minerals, it's also absolutely killing 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.800 it when it comes to processing. And that is the 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.920 big problem here, is that the other nations don't have 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:43.840 the same processing ability for the critical minerals because what 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:48.080 they're worried about is that at some point in the future, China, 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:49.520 as it's emerging as a. 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.640 Global superpower, could turn off the tap. 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:54.800 And that means that they will be the only ones 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.800 who are able to manufacture the batteries that are going 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:01.240 to be part of our everyday life. Wind turbines, the 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.240 solar paddles, the cars, so these are all the things. 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:06.560 That they were discussing at the Quad. 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:08.840 So Australia has a bit of a card to play 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.840 when it comes to critical minerals. Have we actually promised 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:13.360 anything on that front yet. 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.160 Well, the card that we have to play is that 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.840 we've got them and we're looking at creating this as 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:20.360 our new industry. 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.320 So anybody who's had the unfortunate. 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:27.279 Displeasure of hearing about the future Made in Australia strategy 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:31.240 that the Albanese government is going on about. Essentially it's 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:36.200 bringing manufacturing and processing back to Australia and critical minerals 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:37.120 is at the core of that. 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:41.560 Australia's natural resources are so important, but we need to 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:45.320 develop a new critical minerals strategy nationally. 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:49.159 In terms of what Australia has promised, we've promised that 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:53.839 we will cooperate, that we will work to establish these 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:57.560 supply chains outside of China, that we will work to 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:02.279 ensure that we have our domestic supply and processing. 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.320 And that we are open to trade. 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:07.200 So we're talking to the United States, which is basically 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.039 under the Trump administration going around and hoovering up as 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:12.760 many deals as possible. 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:14.640 So Australia is. 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.880 Working with the United States, but we haven't promised anything 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.560 entirely concrete yet, and that is mostly because we aren't 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.360 quite sure what we are doing ourselves. 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.159 We can't just sit back and allow ourselves to be 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.159 at the end of global supply chains. We need to 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.039 put it simply, we need to make more stuff here 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:38.720 that simple, not export our minerals, wait for the values 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.080 to be added somewhere else and then import it back 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:43.080 at much higher value. 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.560 We have a vague idea that there's going to be 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.440 a critical minerals reserve in Australia, which means that we 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:54.080 will be keeping some for ourselves, which is not something that. 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:55.280 We did with gas. 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:57.960 And there is a vague idea that we are going 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.960 to process things here. How we pay for that, who 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.960 pays for it, who owns it, how we taps for that. 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.120 None of that has been worked out yet. 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:09.960 So the backdrop to all of this is that there 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:13.200 is a hope in camera that critical minerals will strength 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:17.000 in Australia's hand when it comes to negotiating tariff relief 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.320 and also strengthen a hand when it comes to the 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:25.159 US's commitment to ORCUS. So will any arrangement around critical 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.839 minerals help with those negotiations potentially. 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:32.240 Well, the problem with that is that the Trump administration 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.400 isn't stable. You don't actually know what they're going to 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.119 agree to and stick to. Nothing that Donald Trump says 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:44.960 is guaranteed. And the way that Trump is loosening those 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:49.520 tariffs really depends on the day and how he feels 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.360 about his relationship with them. Trump is actually in discussions 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:57.840 with China at the moment about loosening the restrictions and 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.800 the tariffs that they have on Chinese imports and critical 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.240 minerals is central to that, and China is a lot 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.880 further down the chain than Australia is. 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:09.000 So if China. 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.480 Goes okay, well look we'll give you x YZ, Trump 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:14.800 will be like, cool, we don't care about supply chains 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:16.800 in the future. We just care about what we can 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.840 get now, and that kind of deals Australia out of 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:24.160 these immediate dealings. So Australia and the other coordinations South 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.400 Korea and Japan and India and all of our allies 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.440 are basically trying to play four D chess with Trump. 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:33.120 So there's a lot of. 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.360 Work being done behind the scenes to ensure that you 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.080 keep Trump happy. You deal with what you've got in 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.560 front of you, but you also keep an eye into 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.400 what's happening in the future at a time when maybe 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:48.720 Trump isn't bleeding America and maybe that there's a little 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.120 bit easier to negotiate. 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:57.080 After the break Australia's race with China in the Pacific, 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.360 and the Australia is pushing ahead with forming stronger ties 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.320 with our Pacific neighbors in an effort to push back 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.440 against China. So what in Rhodes is China made in 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:15.920 the region. 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:22.040 Well, China under the Coalition made massive inroads with soft power, 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.240 so basically of applying a lot of low interest loans 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.600 to Pacific nation countries in order for them to keep 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:33.160 their economies afloat. They're building infrastructure, they're building hospitals, they're 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:36.679 doing educational programs. There's a lot more freedom of movement 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.520 between China and the Pacific nations. And Australia kind of 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.040 woke up one day and went, oh, that doesn't seem 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:46.600 so great for us, because maybe China puts our military 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:51.559 base on Vadawatu or Papua New Guinea. And so part 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:55.199 of what the Albanesi government has been doing is trying 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:59.080 to normalize the relationships with the Pacific and to ensure 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:03.280 that Pacific nation look to Australia as its natural partner 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:04.120 of choice. 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:05.439 And so a lot of the. 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:09.040 Pacific nations has come out and said, okay, you can't 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:12.600 just do roads and hospitals anymore. What are you actually 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:17.040 doing about climate which is the number one issue for 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:21.360 Pacific nations. China is making promises where they're talking about 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:26.600 basically a lot easier pathways for migration to ensure that 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:29.800 you can basically be from a Pacific nation but also 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.280 move to China with support if you need to. 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:33.520 Those conversations have. 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:37.079 Started, and now the Pacific nations are saying to Australia, well, 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.720 what are you doing on that? Because you're still approving 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:44.559 fossil fuel projects. You aren't actually dealing us into these conversations, 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:46.680 and we're sick of just being patted on the head 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.320 and told to be you know, good boys and girls 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.200 and off you go. What are you actually doing? That's 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.559 a much bigger challenge for the Albanezy government. 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:57.480 So this hands a lot of leverage actually to a 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.679 lot of these specific nations when it comes to things 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:04.320 like climate policy. So what assurances have the Alberanuzi government 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.560 given some of these countries in relation to climate policy. 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:11.720 So we had the first deal with tu Valu, which 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:15.440 was essentially to set up a lottery system to allow 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.559 people living in Tuvalu to move to Australia. But Vanihatu 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:21.839 and other nations are saying, well, what are you doing 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:25.200 for us, because we're in exactly the same boat. You 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:29.719 can't pick and choose which of your neighbors that you. 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.120 Decide to help. And so Vanahatu is saying, well, you 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.480 know what, we want, easier migration. 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.880 We want you to drop so many of the immigration 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.440 checks and things and that you have in place for 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.520 us so that we can also plan for our future. 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:47.880 And if you don't do it, then China will. 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:51.480 And finally, Amy, China has a great degree of clout, 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:55.320 being probably the emergency superpawer of the twenty first century, 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:57.760 but can it claim any moral superiority when it comes 0:10:57.800 --> 0:10:59.040 to climate action at this point? 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.640 No, it can't, but neither can we, And so it's 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.880 really easy to say, oh, well, you know, China's not 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:10.560 decarbonizing as well, and China's responsible for x amount of 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:14.280 fossil fuel, but so's Australia, and particularly when. 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:15.280 It comes to exports. 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:19.800 Australia is still continuing to approve of fossil fuel projects, 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:23.480 including the Northwest Shelf expansion, and while we're doing that, 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.400 we're still talking to the Pacific and saying, oh hey, 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.920 how about you come and host the UN Climate Conference 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.520 with us, so we can tell everybody that we're still. 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:34.480 A happy family. 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:39.480 We say one thing and we do another all the time, 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.200 and we have done that when it comes to the 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:43.800 Pacific Nations for. 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.920 A very very long period of time. 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.600 We do not have a great history when it comes 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.520 to looking after Pacific Nations as we have said that 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:54.640 we would, and you can go all the way back 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:58.640 to Blackbirding and beyond to see how some of those 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:03.200 bonds have been broken. It's easier for China at the 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.720 moment because they don't have the same history with the 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.280 Pacific Nations that Australia does, and they have a lot 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.400 of money and a lot of power, and at the 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:17.400 moment they're basically doing whatever strategically works for them. That 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.520 doesn't necessarily mean that when the crunch comes that China's 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:22.720 going to live up to all of its promises, but 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:26.920 Australia has broken so many promises with the Pacific over 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.720 such a long period of time. You can see why 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.640 some Pacific leaders are saying, you know what, We're going 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:35.800 to see what else is out there for our people. 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:39.640 Amy, thank you so much for your time. 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:40.360 Thank you. 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.920 Also in the news, the work history of alleged Melbourne 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:02.920 pedophile Joshua has widened, with new evidence showing he was 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:07.480 at an assident childcare center months earlier than authorities first stated. 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:09.800 Parents say they recall brand at the center as early 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:14.520 as August last year, raising questions over official notifications and 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:18.760 exposing more families to possible risk. Brown remains in custody 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:23.120 facing seventy charges as police and Victoria's Health Department reviews 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:28.360 its timeline and continues their investigations. And Creative Australia has 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:32.319 apologized to artist Khalid Subsabi after the body reinstated him 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:35.520 to represent the country at the twenty twenty six Venice Biennial. 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.920 In February, Creative Australia dump Subsabi, a move criticized at 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:43.559 the time as having been influenced by politics. An independent 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:47.160 external review into the decision attributed the counselation to quote 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:52.520 a series of missteps, assumptions and missed opportunities. Yesterday, Acting 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.600 chair Wesley Enoch took to Radio National saying I want 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.280 to apologize to them for the hurt and pain they've 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:04.079 gone through when this process. Thanks for listening to seven AM. 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:08.000 The show is made by Adigus Basto, Shane Anderson, christ Gate, 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:14.480 Ruby Jones, Sarah mcveie, Travis Evans, Zotonfecho and me Daniel James. 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.319 Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.600 of Envelope Portio. If you enjoy our work, please share 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.080 it with your friends. It's the best way you can 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:29.040 support us. Have a great weekend. We'll be back on Monday.