WEBVTT - Unmasking the West Perth Rapist: Luke McCulloch Pt.1

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<v Speaker 1>The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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<v Speaker 1>Detective sy aside of life the average person is never

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<v Speaker 1>exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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<v Speaker 1>For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what I did for a living. I was a

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<v Speaker 1>homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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<v Speaker 1>The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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<v Speaker 1>from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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<v Speaker 1>and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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<v Speaker 1>of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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<v Speaker 1>no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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<v Speaker 1>Join me now as I take you into this world.

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<v Speaker 1>There's nothing glamorous about being a police diver. No crystal

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<v Speaker 1>clear water, no coral roofs, no visibility, just darkness, cold

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<v Speaker 1>and waterways so grim that most people wouldn't want to

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<v Speaker 1>go near them. Lane get in and when they go

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<v Speaker 1>under there not looking for treasure. They're searching for items

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<v Speaker 1>relating to crimes. Dead bodies, firearms, drugs, often with nothing

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<v Speaker 1>but their bare hands. In this episode of I Catch Killers,

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<v Speaker 1>I speak with Luke McCulloch, who has spent fifteen years

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<v Speaker 1>in the Western Australian Police. He patrolled the remote Pilbra

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<v Speaker 1>as a country cop, He helped crack the West Perth

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<v Speaker 1>rapist case and spent nearly a decade diving into places

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<v Speaker 1>no one else would go, searching for the things no

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<v Speaker 1>one else wanted to find. Today, we're going to take

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<v Speaker 1>a deep dive, and I mean that literally, into the

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<v Speaker 1>world of a police diver. Luke McCulloch, Welcome to I

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<v Speaker 1>Catch Killers.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey Gary, how are you, Matte? Thanks for having me well.

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<v Speaker 1>I always enjoy speaking to police or former police. It's

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<v Speaker 1>always nice to speak to someone that's been in the

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<v Speaker 1>same business and industry.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, me too, me too, thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>But I never had an ambition of being a police star.

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<v Speaker 1>And I saw a lot of police divers during my time.

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<v Speaker 1>And you're not exactly snorkeling around the Great Barrier roof

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<v Speaker 1>the areas that you've got a search and where we

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<v Speaker 1>send you in. What made you want to be a diver?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're definitely right there, mate. It's not the lovely,

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<v Speaker 2>rottenest island diving, especially from over here in the West

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<v Speaker 2>that you used to. I didn't actually ever intend on

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<v Speaker 2>being a police diver when I first joined the police force.

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<v Speaker 2>I did policing for seven years before I jumped into that,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was mainly just based on the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to do general duties anymore. I'd sort

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<v Speaker 2>of appreciated that lifestyle and that style of work for

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<v Speaker 2>about seven years, as I said, but then I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to specialize in something, so that came up. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>through Marten the Ring.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So it wasn't naively you think this is beautiful

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<v Speaker 1>waterways and all that. It'll be nice swimming around rotnear

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<v Speaker 1>Styland on the beautiful summer summer's day or down at

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<v Speaker 1>Claremont at the beaches.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, I knew what I was getting into. That

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<v Speaker 2>was for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, your book, I've been reading your book, Tales of

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<v Speaker 1>a Diver, Profondess obscurius sur Now, for those that don't

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<v Speaker 1>know what I just said, including myself, that's Latin, but

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<v Speaker 1>translated from Latin that's deep, dark and dirty. So the

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<v Speaker 1>book Tales of a Diver, deep, dark and dirty.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was our that was our motto in the

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<v Speaker 2>in the dives quad at the time. So yeah, profund

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<v Speaker 2>US obscurist. So did this deep, dark and dirty?

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<v Speaker 1>And that pretty well sums up the type of places

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<v Speaker 1>you go and what you do under.

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<v Speaker 2>The surface pretty much. Mate. Yeah, sewers, swamps. We do

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<v Speaker 2>get some nice occasional diving out in the ocean where

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<v Speaker 2>we can see a bit of stuff, but more often

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<v Speaker 2>than not, Yeah, it's touch and feel searching around in

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<v Speaker 2>pretty black water.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, I've seen you guys go into the sewer

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<v Speaker 1>and I was glad that it's glad that's you guys,

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<v Speaker 1>not not us. What's what's a clean up procedure after

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<v Speaker 1>you dive in the.

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<v Speaker 2>Look? I'll be honest, I'm not sure what it's like

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<v Speaker 2>over there in New South But here we get out.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a lovely garden hose on the back of the

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<v Speaker 2>dive truck and one of us sprays the other one

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<v Speaker 2>with that and we're good to go.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're a little bit rough and ready, but very good. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>before we and I want to have it sounds like

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<v Speaker 1>a pun here deep dive into your life as a

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<v Speaker 1>police diver, But talk about your police career before that.

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<v Speaker 1>When did you when did you join the police? Why

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<v Speaker 1>did you join the police, And tell us about your

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<v Speaker 1>early days.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so grew up here in Perth, born and bred.

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<v Speaker 2>I I was sort of a bit lost in high

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<v Speaker 2>school whereby I didn't really know what I wanted to do.

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<v Speaker 2>I was initially gearing up for university, going to become

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<v Speaker 2>a physiotherapist, and funnily enough, my little brother actually became

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<v Speaker 2>that started working out that study wasn't for me. Didn't

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<v Speaker 2>really want to commit to the university sort of lifestyle,

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<v Speaker 2>and and I also knew that I was a bit

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<v Speaker 2>two hands on to be working indoors all the time,

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<v Speaker 2>so it didn't end up being for me. I subsequently

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<v Speaker 2>decided by about year ten or eleven, I was going

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<v Speaker 2>to go into carpentry, Yeah, because I figured use my

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<v Speaker 2>hands was a good, good idea. But then my dad,

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<v Speaker 2>on the other hand, was saying, well, now you've gone

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<v Speaker 2>the full opposite and now you're going to be outdoors

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<v Speaker 2>all the time, and you don't want to be doing

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<v Speaker 2>back breaking stuff and get to the age of sort

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<v Speaker 2>of mid thirties and hate your life in that regard.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was sort of a bit lost in year twelve,

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<v Speaker 2>didn't really know what to do. My dad is actually

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<v Speaker 2>a police officer, still is so he's just ticked off

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<v Speaker 2>forty years the other day, which is a good effort

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<v Speaker 2>for him.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>And my mum was a police officer at the time

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<v Speaker 2>as well, so it sort of felt natural to go

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<v Speaker 2>into that. However, they definitely had a different mindset in

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<v Speaker 2>that regard. When I pitched the idea because I saw

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<v Speaker 2>a CA advert on the TV one night, thought oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll just do that. That sounds smart because then I

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<v Speaker 2>get a bit of both worlds. I get to do

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<v Speaker 2>some office based stuff and I'm a bit hands on.

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<v Speaker 2>And immediately as soon as I told him, I said, no,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the worst idea in the world. You shouldn't be

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<v Speaker 2>doing that. So what as a young teenager do when

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<v Speaker 2>the parents say no, I don't like that idea, They

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<v Speaker 2>go head first at it. So I checked the application

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<v Speaker 2>in They eventually came around. I think they half thought

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<v Speaker 2>I'd put in for it and eventually get to a

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<v Speaker 2>point where I thought it wasn't for me. Yeah. I

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<v Speaker 2>was a bit of a pushover as a little kid.

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<v Speaker 2>Wasn't the biggest toughest thing in the world, so I

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<v Speaker 2>think they thought I was a bit too soft for it,

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<v Speaker 2>and I probably was. Let's face it, but definitely grew

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<v Speaker 2>up when I got in there. So I actually joined

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<v Speaker 2>at seventeen as a kid out, and the cadet program

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<v Speaker 2>at the time that they were running was a two

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<v Speaker 2>year program because to become a sworn police officer here

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<v Speaker 2>you had to be nineteen. Little did I know that

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<v Speaker 2>year they actually changed the age app to eighteen as

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<v Speaker 2>a sworn officer. Yeah, so as soon as I'd finished

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<v Speaker 2>on my cadet book, I could put my hat in

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<v Speaker 2>the ring, and I did, and I became a police

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<v Speaker 2>officer at eighteen, and it was something like eighteen in

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<v Speaker 2>two months, the youngest ever a sworn police officer in WA.

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<v Speaker 1>At that stage, you're, well, you think you know things

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<v Speaker 1>at that age, but you're a baby baby, aren't you.

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<v Speaker 2>One hundred percent?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>The only thing I had had gone for me at

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<v Speaker 2>the time was my size. I was six or six

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<v Speaker 2>at that stage, already coming out of high school, so

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<v Speaker 2>I was able to rely on that. However, if I

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<v Speaker 2>went to a domestic and told someone that they're not

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<v Speaker 2>allowed to do something to their wife or do something

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<v Speaker 2>in a domestic household, they just look at me and go,

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<v Speaker 2>who the hell are you to tell me? So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I struggled a little bit with that. As I said,

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<v Speaker 2>it grew me up quickly, so I don't regret it.

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<v Speaker 2>But do I recommend doing it at eighteen, No, definitely not.

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<v Speaker 2>I reckon, go go get some experience.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's an easier path for you if you

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<v Speaker 1>get that little bit of experience, if you're out working

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<v Speaker 1>in the world. Going straight from school straight into the police,

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<v Speaker 1>it's confronting and to have that power power. Tell me like,

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<v Speaker 1>I've had a lot of X cops on them. I

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<v Speaker 1>think they've had parents that have been police. But having

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<v Speaker 1>your mother and father in police, what was it like

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<v Speaker 1>growing up as a kid with police and parents.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't really remember mum being a cop, to be honest,

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<v Speaker 2>because I think I can't remember the exact dage, but

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<v Speaker 2>I think I was about three or four when she

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<v Speaker 2>actually resigned. It wasn't a you know, the police force

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't too privy with females having kids at that stage

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<v Speaker 2>and young families, so it wasn't made easy for her,

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<v Speaker 2>to my understanding, so she pulled the pin on that

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<v Speaker 2>went into her own businesses afterwards and did her own thing.

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<v Speaker 2>But having dad like dad wasn't a hard ass or

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<v Speaker 2>anything like that, like the stereotypical sort of version that

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<v Speaker 2>you would think. I definitely had a lot of respect

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<v Speaker 2>for him, but I actually had respect for him in

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<v Speaker 2>other ways. He was my footy coach growing up, one

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<v Speaker 2>of the toughest men that I'll ever ever know, so

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<v Speaker 2>I actually had a bit more respect and fear for

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<v Speaker 2>him from things outside the police force. He was actually

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<v Speaker 2>he's actually still. He's a forensic police officer, so fingerprints

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<v Speaker 2>is his specialty, right, So it's not exactly, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>shooting and running after crooks. So yeah, it was a

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<v Speaker 2>bit different I suppose to what others would have gone through.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so seventeen you went through a cadet ship, which

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<v Speaker 1>is we had it in New South Wales and I

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<v Speaker 1>think there's even talk of bringing it back. And for

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<v Speaker 1>people that don't understand what that is, that you're at

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<v Speaker 1>an age where you're too young to join the police

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<v Speaker 1>and they allow you to do the study and work

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<v Speaker 1>but not go out on the streets until a certain age.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not a bad system, is it, Because I

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<v Speaker 1>think people in that you get a sense whether this

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<v Speaker 1>is a life for you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely. It's kind of like a like try before

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<v Speaker 2>you buy. Yeah, it's how I sort of tried to

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<v Speaker 2>describe it. We're the same. It's in the state, it's

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<v Speaker 2>come in, and it's left at times when they haven't

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<v Speaker 2>needed it. I from a policing point of view, like

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<v Speaker 2>an organization, it's a great way to capture people before

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<v Speaker 2>they go off and do Universe go go to trade

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<v Speaker 2>and we lose that. So it's getting him interested straight away.

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<v Speaker 2>We had the benefit of going out, so you did

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<v Speaker 2>all administration stuff back of the station, but every so

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<v Speaker 2>often the idea was that you got taken out of

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<v Speaker 2>patrol and you were just chucked in the back seat

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<v Speaker 2>essentially with a mag light and a radio to appreciate

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<v Speaker 2>what it actually looks like to go on patrol.

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<v Speaker 1>And told not to touch anything.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you're eighteen and two months did you say,

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<v Speaker 1>and there you are graduating from the academy, and did

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<v Speaker 1>you do it you're training at the current academy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, yeah, I think it. Junela had been up

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<v Speaker 2>and running for tenish fifteen ish years before I jumped

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<v Speaker 2>into it, So no, I didn't. I didn't get Maylands,

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<v Speaker 2>which was our original one.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got to say it's one of the most impressive

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<v Speaker 1>police academies I've ever seen, and I love that lake

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<v Speaker 1>in the middle of it everything else. I was over

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<v Speaker 1>there doing some lectures and staying there and I thought, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>this is the gap.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and even there around their scenario village is second

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<v Speaker 2>to none, you know, to be able to go through

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<v Speaker 2>it literally a village that's been made and they have

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<v Speaker 2>paid actors go through and you're going through different scenarios

0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:12.640
<v Speaker 2>along the way. That was the learning from that was priceless. Yeah.

0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:17.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you have six foot six and you've got

0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.840
<v Speaker 1>a limited life experience. They put you in the uniform,

0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.680
<v Speaker 1>send you out in the street. What's the worst mistake

0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:29.040
<v Speaker 1>you made in your early early days you're not too

0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:30.120
<v Speaker 1>embarrassed to talk about.

0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.959
<v Speaker 2>Look, probably not a massive stuff up, but I definitely

0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.280
<v Speaker 2>think the most embarrassing thing at the time was I

0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.000
<v Speaker 2>was still in my bloody Pea plates, So I had

0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.480
<v Speaker 2>to drive a police car with Pea plates up at

0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:42.040
<v Speaker 2>the time.

0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:43.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that wouldn't attract attention.

0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:45.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wasn't that engaged in lights and sirens. So

0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.200
<v Speaker 2>if we were doing patrols and a priority job came in,

0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:49.520
<v Speaker 2>it was pull over on the side of the road,

0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.160
<v Speaker 2>switched with my partner and then I had to keep

0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:52.520
<v Speaker 2>coming in the passenger.

0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.320
<v Speaker 1>Seat take the pea plates off. Yeah.

0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:56.520
<v Speaker 2>To be honest, for the first first year or so,

0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:58.640
<v Speaker 2>I just actually preferred to not drive because it was

0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:00.160
<v Speaker 2>less embarrassing.

0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.840
<v Speaker 1>Understandable what thereas were you working in? Like the geographical

0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:06.200
<v Speaker 1>what you're in Perth?

0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so western suburbs generally. I initially got stationed at Wembley.

0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:15.960
<v Speaker 2>I went over to Subiaco that then subsequently amalgamated with Wembley.

0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.000
<v Speaker 2>And then my last probationary stint was actually at a

0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:23.880
<v Speaker 2>central Metro traffic unit and by no means no hard

0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.400
<v Speaker 2>feelings against traffic coppers, but that just wasn't for me,

0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.599
<v Speaker 2>And luckily I had a decent boss there who recognized

0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.000
<v Speaker 2>that it wasn't for me. And I remember him bringing

0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.200
<v Speaker 2>me into his office towards the end of my time

0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.000
<v Speaker 2>when I could have gotten off probation, and he said, McCullough,

0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.280
<v Speaker 2>get in here. So I walked in. I thought I

0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:42.240
<v Speaker 2>was going to get in trouble, and he said, look

0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:44.480
<v Speaker 2>between you and me, mate, you're not going to be

0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:46.560
<v Speaker 2>a traffic copper and you never will. So how about

0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.480
<v Speaker 2>I just signed your off probation, you get out of

0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:50.000
<v Speaker 2>here and you move on to your next station. And

0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.360
<v Speaker 2>I said, sounds good to me. Mate, shook hands and

0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:52.959
<v Speaker 2>part of ways.

0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.080
<v Speaker 1>And no disrespect because I still drive and I love

0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.880
<v Speaker 1>highway patrol, but they're a different brood, and good on them.

0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.480
<v Speaker 1>The work they do is important. We can't I argue

0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.640
<v Speaker 1>with that. But yeah, you're either the traffic highway patrol

0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.480
<v Speaker 1>type police or you're not. And some of them are

0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.160
<v Speaker 1>very good at it, and you can see why they're

0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.160
<v Speaker 1>in that in that role, very efficient.

0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:17.520
<v Speaker 2>I constantly say I love them because they do something

0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:18.200
<v Speaker 2>that I don't want to do.

0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:20.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well it's a good way of looking at it.

0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.240
<v Speaker 1>And we know the road road toll they do make

0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.480
<v Speaker 1>a difference, so we definitely need them. So let's not

0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.719
<v Speaker 1>let's not attack highway patrol because we do drive and

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:34.040
<v Speaker 1>we respect them. Okay, So in the areas areas that

0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.679
<v Speaker 1>you work, traffic traffic wasn't for you, the type of

0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.200
<v Speaker 1>crimes that you were dealing with or the type of work.

0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.920
<v Speaker 1>What was your day to day work. And that's around

0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:47.040
<v Speaker 1>Subiaca Oval, the station that you're talking about, Yeah.

0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.360
<v Speaker 2>That was the that small station that then amalgamated with Wembley,

0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:54.160
<v Speaker 2>so Subiaco actually became part of Wembley's patch as well.

0:13:54.960 --> 0:14:00.400
<v Speaker 2>But typical Western suburbs sort of crime general Berg is

0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.480
<v Speaker 2>going in and around nicer, affluent sort of areas. Our

0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.280
<v Speaker 2>western suburbs is obviously very different to your western suburbs

0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:08.559
<v Speaker 2>with the difference of the East Coast and the West Coast,

0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.720
<v Speaker 2>your sort of nightlife areas. So Leederville was in our parts.

0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:17.719
<v Speaker 2>Subiaco Claremont had a couple of nightclubs as well. I mean,

0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.840
<v Speaker 2>the most sort of stress I got from the public

0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.560
<v Speaker 2>was going out of control gatherings and some kid telling

0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:26.640
<v Speaker 2>me that his dad was a lawyer and was going

0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.520
<v Speaker 2>to get me in trouble. Not hard work, awesome crew

0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:32.960
<v Speaker 2>we had at the time, loved doing what we did,

0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.680
<v Speaker 2>and we did it well. And I just I had

0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.320
<v Speaker 2>a ball. Like I said, I'm eighteen nineteen years of

0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:40.160
<v Speaker 2>age at this stage. You got a uniform on, I

0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.440
<v Speaker 2>felt bulletproof and I was just having fun. It was awesome.

0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.360
<v Speaker 1>What were the good mentors that you had. Did you

0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.480
<v Speaker 1>have some good mentors, because I think that's crucial at

0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.920
<v Speaker 1>the early stages of your policing career if you can

0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.280
<v Speaker 1>lock into someone that can guide you through. Did you

0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.840
<v Speaker 1>have some people that you respected then taught you a lot.

0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely so, and different aspects of who I would

0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:05.920
<v Speaker 2>sort of look up to as well. So I definitely

0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:09.360
<v Speaker 2>had that old school sergeant that was teflon. Nothing could

0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:10.920
<v Speaker 2>stick to him and you just thought, how does he

0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.680
<v Speaker 2>get away with everything? But he very much taught me,

0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, like don't take everything so seriously. You've got

0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.320
<v Speaker 2>to have some fun at the same time, because otherwise

0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.920
<v Speaker 2>this job will take too much from you. But I

0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.560
<v Speaker 2>also I was really lucky to have a couple of

0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.440
<v Speaker 2>younger fellas who were a little bit older than me,

0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.360
<v Speaker 2>but still respectively looking back now they were quite young.

0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.760
<v Speaker 2>They just had really good level heads on them and

0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.720
<v Speaker 2>they didn't want to go into things, you know, half

0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:38.240
<v Speaker 2>cocked or lazy. They wanted to do it properly. And

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.000
<v Speaker 2>they were young fit fellas as well, like one particularly

0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.560
<v Speaker 2>went on to go to tig so he particularly was

0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:46.120
<v Speaker 2>a really good role model to go all right, this

0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.840
<v Speaker 2>is the right way to do it, and also take

0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.680
<v Speaker 2>care of yourself, always expect the most of yourself and

0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.360
<v Speaker 2>hold yourself to a high standard as well, because it

0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.280
<v Speaker 2>can be very very easy as a young copper to

0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, slide in behind someone who's a nice, lazy copper,

0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:01.720
<v Speaker 2>as jaded as anything. And I've seen a time and

0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:05.520
<v Speaker 2>time again where they just then that they start acting like,

0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:07.920
<v Speaker 2>well the copper starts acting like they're seven years into

0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:09.960
<v Speaker 2>the job or ten years into the job, when they've

0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.800
<v Speaker 2>done ten months and they've got that bad attitude straight away.

0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a shame. I think it's crucial who junior

0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.600
<v Speaker 1>police are partnered up with and working with in those

0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:24.440
<v Speaker 1>early stages, because you can get these disgruntled police that's

0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.200
<v Speaker 1>steering them in the wrong direction. The other thing that

0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.640
<v Speaker 1>you've got to look out for not being caught up

0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.680
<v Speaker 1>in And it's easy to say, but it's also easy

0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.960
<v Speaker 1>to fall into the trap. Get the excitement of the adrenaline,

0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:37.880
<v Speaker 1>Like when you've got a couple of young blakes and

0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.440
<v Speaker 1>you say you're working with people that were more senior

0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.600
<v Speaker 1>to you, they might have two years experience, and you

0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.480
<v Speaker 1>and them are out on the car at two o'clock

0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.600
<v Speaker 1>in the morning and chasing the adrenaline and the excitement

0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:51.080
<v Speaker 1>that can bring you unstuck as well.

0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:53.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh definitely. Yeah, you know you've got guys that are

0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.160
<v Speaker 2>going around looking for looking for fights, and they're trying

0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:59.000
<v Speaker 2>to annoy people and get a mad egged up just

0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.560
<v Speaker 2>so they can get into a with someone. And I

0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.520
<v Speaker 2>suppose that was a benefit to coming into the police force.

0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.240
<v Speaker 2>Not a hot headed young fella. I don't get me wrong.

0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:10.720
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to have a ball and have fun and

0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.119
<v Speaker 2>appreciate what it was for. But I didn't like fighting.

0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.199
<v Speaker 2>I still to this day, I like the fact that

0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.000
<v Speaker 2>I'd drawn my firearm once. In my whole career, I

0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.760
<v Speaker 2>never tasted anyone. I never pep sprayed anyone. I never

0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.399
<v Speaker 2>had to batten anyone. And I put that down to

0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.080
<v Speaker 2>being able to talk to people at the same time

0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.760
<v Speaker 2>and not having to worry about going hands on because

0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:33.960
<v Speaker 2>I could actually speak to them and de escalate the

0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.119
<v Speaker 2>situation from that. Used to roll my feathers up a

0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:38.880
<v Speaker 2>little bit, to be honest, when someone would come into

0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:40.600
<v Speaker 2>the team and they would go out and they'd start

0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.800
<v Speaker 2>annoying crooks or people within the nightclub industry just to

0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:46.240
<v Speaker 2>get a bite out of someone, and I'm like, what

0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.360
<v Speaker 2>are you doing. It's just not worth it, mate.

0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Not worth it. And what you talk about is a

0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.159
<v Speaker 1>skill that's yeah, it needs some people just have it

0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:58.560
<v Speaker 1>in them. Other people can be taught, but some people

0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.760
<v Speaker 1>just miss the point entirely. But being able to de

0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:06.320
<v Speaker 1>escalate a situation is crucial to good policing. And I

0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.119
<v Speaker 1>used to laugh at you'd have some police in the

0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:13.480
<v Speaker 1>station that we're always assaulted, and you think, hold, what's

0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:18.240
<v Speaker 1>common common in this? Have you stopped to take a

0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.119
<v Speaker 1>step back. The majority of us haven't been assaulted. You

0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.720
<v Speaker 1>have had ten assaults in the twelve months, in the

0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.880
<v Speaker 1>past twelve months. Is it perhaps the way you're speaking

0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.720
<v Speaker 1>to people that might might lead that way?

0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:30.600
<v Speaker 2>Exactly?

0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, And look, Perth I spent as we were

0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:35.879
<v Speaker 1>saying the other day when we're having a chat, I

0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.720
<v Speaker 1>lived over in Perth for a while and it would

0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.399
<v Speaker 1>have been around that time, like two thousand and seven

0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:43.560
<v Speaker 1>and those times. So I spent a lot of time

0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.960
<v Speaker 1>over in Perth, and I call it the wild West

0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:51.119
<v Speaker 1>in some aspects, like there there was no disrespect to

0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.480
<v Speaker 1>w a love love the people, but there was a wildness,

0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.640
<v Speaker 1>there was a rawness to it, and you could see

0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.040
<v Speaker 1>how things could escalate very quickly, like in pubs, and

0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.680
<v Speaker 1>that people were willing to fight and if you backed

0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:06.919
<v Speaker 1>them into a corner, they were going to fight.

0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.000
<v Speaker 2>One hundred percent and like that. Yeah, there was definitely

0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.920
<v Speaker 2>this sort of viable feeling in the air that, yeah,

0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.160
<v Speaker 2>you young fellas at the time were trying to make

0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.040
<v Speaker 2>a name for themselves. Northbridge was definitely the one that

0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:22.159
<v Speaker 2>would kick off. I as an eighteen year old in

0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.080
<v Speaker 2>the police force there and then, like, I never experienced

0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Northbridge from a civilian point of view because of what

0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.320
<v Speaker 2>I was doing at the time, but it completely ruined

0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.280
<v Speaker 2>the idea of Northbridge ever for me because I just

0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:36.280
<v Speaker 2>saw it from a different lights what all mother mates

0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:40.680
<v Speaker 2>were doing at football and from school and stuff. But yeah,

0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:42.560
<v Speaker 2>the amount of times we got caught into Northbridge to

0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.400
<v Speaker 2>back up because there was just massive, massive brawls going on, Yeah,

0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:47.440
<v Speaker 2>it was a.

0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:51.160
<v Speaker 1>Bit well, that's the sense of it. I know north

0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:53.800
<v Speaker 1>Bridge well and I know what you're talking about. It

0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:57.120
<v Speaker 1>felt like a powder kegn. The mining industry was very

0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:58.879
<v Speaker 1>big at that time, so you've got a lot of

0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:02.560
<v Speaker 1>people that were fly in, fly out workers around Perth

0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.480
<v Speaker 1>that were cashed up, ridiculously cashed up at the time,

0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:10.480
<v Speaker 1>working hardcore for ten days and then having ten days

0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:14.000
<v Speaker 1>off or figures like that. So they were coming into town.

0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:14.879
<v Speaker 1>They have a good time.

0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, blown awesome steam and spend some cash.

0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.840
<v Speaker 1>And a good time they had when you were there.

0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:26.600
<v Speaker 1>There was one I was watching the show Australian Crime

0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Investigations and there was a job that I think it

0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:33.120
<v Speaker 1>was a couple of years into your career, when you're

0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.359
<v Speaker 1>still working in the Metro area, that you pulled a

0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:41.200
<v Speaker 1>motorbike over that turned into a fairly big investigation. Do

0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.200
<v Speaker 1>you want to tell us through that story, because that's

0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:46.560
<v Speaker 1>the type of thing you look for as a young cop,

0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:48.880
<v Speaker 1>isn't it. You want to be the person that gets

0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.399
<v Speaker 1>the information that leads to solving a significant crime. Tell

0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:53.960
<v Speaker 1>us about your involvement in that matter.

0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:58.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So we we we're just doing general patrols in

0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:01.080
<v Speaker 2>the Wembley area and we're going down a street called

0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:06.119
<v Speaker 2>Cambridge Street Main Drag within Wembley, very very late in

0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 2>the night, if not early morning, and I was with

0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:11.680
<v Speaker 2>my sergeant at the time. He was driving and I

0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:14.440
<v Speaker 2>had another probationer in the back when we saw a

0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:16.639
<v Speaker 2>motorbike on the left hand side the road heading west

0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:19.960
<v Speaker 2>with no headlights on. So at the time it was

0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:22.200
<v Speaker 2>just going to be a standard traffic stop. A bit

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:24.399
<v Speaker 2>weird that the lights weren't on. That sort of just

0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:28.479
<v Speaker 2>hinted straight away to someone trying to hide and not

0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:31.480
<v Speaker 2>want to be seen. Obviously, when we stopped and put

0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:34.119
<v Speaker 2>the lights on, he stalled, so I got out of

0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:35.440
<v Speaker 2>the car when I had a chat with him, and

0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:36.840
<v Speaker 2>as I was talking to him, he was trying to

0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.359
<v Speaker 2>kick the bike in, and it was obvious that he

0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:40.960
<v Speaker 2>couldn't get at the start at the time, and the

0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:44.760
<v Speaker 2>bike was having malfunctions, so that sort of eased me

0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:47.600
<v Speaker 2>a bit at that point, and he was talking to me,

0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.879
<v Speaker 2>he didn't seem too evasive at that stage. He was

0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:54.080
<v Speaker 2>telling me the bike was having troubles, and to be honest,

0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:56.480
<v Speaker 2>it was probably just going to be a quick name check,

0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:58.280
<v Speaker 2>and I was actually probably going to offer him and

0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:00.160
<v Speaker 2>go like, may look if your bike his stuff, give

0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:02.560
<v Speaker 2>you a lift and or will follow your home or

0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:06.240
<v Speaker 2>something like that. I'm so glad now that that didn't happen. Obviously,

0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:10.120
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't getting his drivers license when I was asking

0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:12.040
<v Speaker 2>for it, and all of a sudden, the bike kicked

0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:15.040
<v Speaker 2>into life and he just took off, took off quicker

0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.119
<v Speaker 2>than I was able to run after him, but I

0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.520
<v Speaker 2>still wasn't screaming down the street. So I ran back

0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:22.119
<v Speaker 2>to the car and we chased him, and he subsequently

0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:25.959
<v Speaker 2>crashed into a bus stop. Tried to go up one

0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:29.400
<v Speaker 2>of those box curbs, wheel bent and he went headfirst

0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:31.919
<v Speaker 2>into this bus stop. We got out, he stood up,

0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:34.560
<v Speaker 2>tried to run off again. I chased him down, caught him,

0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:38.520
<v Speaker 2>and when we started searching him, because at this stage

0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:41.480
<v Speaker 2>we were saying why'd you run, what's going on? Why

0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:45.119
<v Speaker 2>have you been evasive? Now he was stating that the

0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:48.520
<v Speaker 2>registration on the bike was out. Still didn't make sense

0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:49.879
<v Speaker 2>to run from the police.

0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:51.639
<v Speaker 1>Run from the cops for that's one hundred dollars.

0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:54.159
<v Speaker 2>A ticket or something like that. So we were searching

0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:57.440
<v Speaker 2>him and the weird thing that I found on him

0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:01.280
<v Speaker 2>was it was an epipenn style object. I knew what

0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:03.480
<v Speaker 2>an EpiPen was. I knew it wasn't an EpiPen, but

0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:05.680
<v Speaker 2>that's the best way I could describe it. And a

0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:08.439
<v Speaker 2>couple other weird things. He had some gloves on in

0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:11.439
<v Speaker 2>his bag and a couple other weird items, but that

0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:14.000
<v Speaker 2>was the main one. So because you obviously had a

0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:16.960
<v Speaker 2>police crash, I tackled him pretty hard when I caught

0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:18.560
<v Speaker 2>him as well, we took him to hospital to make

0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:21.000
<v Speaker 2>sure he was all checked out. And when I got

0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:23.320
<v Speaker 2>to hospital, I thought, I'll show him this. I'll show

0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:25.320
<v Speaker 2>the doctor this EpiPen and just ask what it is.

0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Because when I asked him, he said it was for

0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:29.840
<v Speaker 2>blood pressure. The doctor subsequently said, I hope you've had

0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:33.600
<v Speaker 2>gloves on the whole time, because that's a it's used

0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:37.520
<v Speaker 2>by males for erect ol dysfunction. Right, essentially, put it

0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:39.360
<v Speaker 2>to your I don't know if I'm allowed to say

0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:40.080
<v Speaker 2>it your gooch.

0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:44.119
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, we can call it a gooch, or you

0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:45.120
<v Speaker 1>can call it something.

0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:46.879
<v Speaker 2>Else, yep, yep, whatever you want to call it.

0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:51.160
<v Speaker 1>And you do speak funny from wa yep.

0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:56.440
<v Speaker 2>And you inject it and it gives you an instant erection.

0:23:57.119 --> 0:23:59.639
<v Speaker 2>So at that stage now it's starting to get a

0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:04.840
<v Speaker 2>little bit weirder. So due to the offenses that he'd committed,

0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:07.000
<v Speaker 2>we were actually allowed to and it only had just

0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:10.520
<v Speaker 2>recently come in with the CIA Act, the Criminal Investigation Act,

0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:13.000
<v Speaker 2>where we were allowed to take identifying particulars off him,

0:24:13.119 --> 0:24:16.800
<v Speaker 2>DNA fingerprints, photos and all that for the offenses that

0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:20.080
<v Speaker 2>he'd committed. So we did that just because we could.

0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.200
<v Speaker 2>It was a new power that we had did a

0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:26.159
<v Speaker 2>significant what we call field report. Field report for the

0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:30.280
<v Speaker 2>listeners is more like a we couldn't couldn't pin you

0:24:30.359 --> 0:24:32.280
<v Speaker 2>to anything, but we're going to pin you to this

0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:35.040
<v Speaker 2>location at this time, wearing this so that if something

0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:36.760
<v Speaker 2>else came out over the next couple of days to

0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:38.240
<v Speaker 2>say that it was a weird person on a bike

0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:43.879
<v Speaker 2>driving around, you're a suspect. So did that, kicked on

0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:46.240
<v Speaker 2>with the rest of the night, finished seven am in

0:24:46.280 --> 0:24:48.359
<v Speaker 2>the morning, went home, went to bed. I got a

0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:50.359
<v Speaker 2>call at about ten or eleven am in the morning

0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:52.640
<v Speaker 2>and it was one of the detectives at Sex Offenders

0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:56.560
<v Speaker 2>Management Unit and my uncle actually at the time was

0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:59.440
<v Speaker 2>working with him, and he had called me and texted

0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:01.240
<v Speaker 2>me as well saying, hey, my boss is about to

0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:04.520
<v Speaker 2>call you about the traffic stop last night. Yeah, I know,

0:25:04.600 --> 0:25:06.680
<v Speaker 2>it's a bit strange. So got a call from him

0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:09.719
<v Speaker 2>and he said that this bike now matched the description

0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:11.359
<v Speaker 2>of a bike that they'd been looking for for a

0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:13.720
<v Speaker 2>couple of months now, but they hadn't hadn't been aut

0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:16.640
<v Speaker 2>of to trackdown or solve It turned out that that

0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:18.919
<v Speaker 2>was that was their guy, So they went and did

0:25:18.920 --> 0:25:23.480
<v Speaker 2>the warrant on his house. DNA profile became positive for

0:25:23.680 --> 0:25:27.160
<v Speaker 2>the DNA found at the scene, and when they did

0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:30.679
<v Speaker 2>the warrant on the on the guy's house, they had

0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:32.520
<v Speaker 2>also worked out that I think he was it was

0:25:32.520 --> 0:25:35.720
<v Speaker 2>a customs or AFP or both, but at the time

0:25:35.760 --> 0:25:38.000
<v Speaker 2>he was customs, I think it was. And he'd had

0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:41.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of those those arrival cards when you come

0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:43.640
<v Speaker 2>back into the country you write down all your details,

0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:48.840
<v Speaker 2>your name next to kin, email address address, and they

0:25:48.880 --> 0:25:51.920
<v Speaker 2>all had notes on them for female descriptions, you know, blonde,

0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:56.360
<v Speaker 2>blue eyes, tall. He kept a heap of them essentially,

0:25:57.000 --> 0:25:59.959
<v Speaker 2>which was extra creepy. But yeah, he ended up subsequent

0:26:00.320 --> 0:26:02.639
<v Speaker 2>getting getting put in the bin for I think it

0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:04.280
<v Speaker 2>was six or seven years. I think it was.

0:26:04.680 --> 0:26:08.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, I've read some media reports of West Perth

0:26:09.080 --> 0:26:14.280
<v Speaker 1>rapist operation per Steel and he's named Stephen Michael Adams.

0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:18.919
<v Speaker 1>But that break it down in a couple of things.

0:26:19.240 --> 0:26:21.480
<v Speaker 1>That's very rewarding when you're just doing your job and

0:26:21.520 --> 0:26:25.439
<v Speaker 1>you come across something like that, because and that's where yeah,

0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:29.000
<v Speaker 1>a lot ninety nine percent of the time doing that,

0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:32.560
<v Speaker 1>it wouldn't pay dividends, but it's that small percentage where

0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:35.600
<v Speaker 1>it does the fact that you've taken taken the time.

0:26:35.840 --> 0:26:38.159
<v Speaker 1>It's in the early hours of the morning. You're tied.

0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:43.119
<v Speaker 1>It's easy. Oh okay, car, your bike's not working properly,

0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:45.320
<v Speaker 1>and just dismiss it. But they're little things that you

0:26:45.320 --> 0:26:48.080
<v Speaker 1>can do in uniform that I know from a major

0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:52.880
<v Speaker 1>crime perspective are crucial, like when we're investigating homicides, those

0:26:53.280 --> 0:26:56.600
<v Speaker 1>details that the uniform police have put down for a stop,

0:26:56.800 --> 0:27:01.000
<v Speaker 1>just like that, and looking at him as an offender too,

0:27:01.359 --> 0:27:04.679
<v Speaker 1>that's quite worrying, or not quite worrying, it's very worrying.

0:27:04.840 --> 0:27:09.080
<v Speaker 1>And we have over here and you know, across the

0:27:09.119 --> 0:27:11.879
<v Speaker 1>place a lot of serial rapists and they start, they

0:27:11.880 --> 0:27:14.760
<v Speaker 1>get away with one, and the crimes were quite chilling

0:27:14.800 --> 0:27:18.000
<v Speaker 1>that he was committing. So full credit to you for

0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:20.160
<v Speaker 1>buying into that and doing your job.

0:27:20.520 --> 0:27:22.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, thank you. It was a really good feeling

0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:26.359
<v Speaker 2>to know what we had just stumbled across because I

0:27:26.400 --> 0:27:28.040
<v Speaker 2>won't I won't put it down till we were hunting

0:27:28.119 --> 0:27:31.040
<v Speaker 2>him or anything like. To be honest, we got the

0:27:31.119 --> 0:27:33.480
<v Speaker 2>called lookout to be kept fors. You know, you get

0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:35.120
<v Speaker 2>three or four of them a day. You go into

0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:37.040
<v Speaker 2>the going to the office, you look at them, three

0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:39.440
<v Speaker 2>or four come in and it's the latest person doing

0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:42.159
<v Speaker 2>bergs or armed hold ups or whatnot, and you remember

0:27:42.200 --> 0:27:44.439
<v Speaker 2>that face or that car to look out for for

0:27:44.480 --> 0:27:46.960
<v Speaker 2>that shift. But the next day there's another three or

0:27:46.960 --> 0:27:48.879
<v Speaker 2>four and you're looking out for that person. So the

0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:51.959
<v Speaker 2>motorbike probably came up on one and months ago. I

0:27:52.000 --> 0:27:54.560
<v Speaker 2>had seen it, but I wasn't looking for it. It

0:27:54.680 --> 0:27:57.199
<v Speaker 2>was just sheer dumb luck. But as you said, the

0:27:57.760 --> 0:28:00.000
<v Speaker 2>doing it correctly and doing your job correctly does pay

0:28:00.080 --> 0:28:02.760
<v Speaker 2>dividends later on. And that was again just because a

0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:04.359
<v Speaker 2>good sergeant at the time. That was the sergeant I

0:28:04.440 --> 0:28:06.000
<v Speaker 2>was talking about. They'd like to have a bit of fun,

0:28:06.040 --> 0:28:08.560
<v Speaker 2>but he also did his job properly. And the other

0:28:08.600 --> 0:28:11.280
<v Speaker 2>probation in the back as well wasn't wasn't you know,

0:28:11.720 --> 0:28:13.800
<v Speaker 2>half with either. He wanted to do the job properly

0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:16.520
<v Speaker 2>and get it all squared away. So they, yeah, they

0:28:16.520 --> 0:28:17.520
<v Speaker 2>have full credit as well.

0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:20.760
<v Speaker 1>And there those little things that sort of call it

0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:23.400
<v Speaker 1>gut instinct. I don't like the use that were too

0:28:23.480 --> 0:28:25.280
<v Speaker 1>much or rely on it too much, but it's just

0:28:25.720 --> 0:28:29.000
<v Speaker 1>something doesn't feel right about this person, and you identify

0:28:29.080 --> 0:28:32.720
<v Speaker 1>that the things that the way he's acting and different things.

0:28:32.720 --> 0:28:35.280
<v Speaker 1>So that's sort of Okay, let's look a little bit

0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:36.360
<v Speaker 1>a little bit closer.

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and like police, you'd know as well as I do. Gary,

0:28:39.600 --> 0:28:42.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, we're very good at reading people. Well, the

0:28:42.160 --> 0:28:44.000
<v Speaker 2>longer you're in the police force, you you get better

0:28:44.040 --> 0:28:46.880
<v Speaker 2>at it. It's it's not too often now that I

0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:49.800
<v Speaker 2>don't read and judge someone and I'm incorrect. Like my

0:28:50.240 --> 0:28:52.360
<v Speaker 2>wife constantly has a giggle about it. And you know,

0:28:52.360 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 2>we'll be sitting in a restaurant and someone will come

0:28:54.760 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 2>in and I'll go, that guy is a prick, And

0:28:57.600 --> 0:28:59.680
<v Speaker 2>twenty minutes later they're the ones standing up having an

0:28:59.760 --> 0:29:01.720
<v Speaker 2>argument with the waitress or something like that. You know,

0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:06.200
<v Speaker 2>we're good at it. We've honed it in. And yeah,

0:29:06.240 --> 0:29:09.560
<v Speaker 2>that was one day where it definitely was the spidy

0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:12.000
<v Speaker 2>sensors were tickling, so to say it worked.

0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:15.040
<v Speaker 1>The other benefit you get working in a local area

0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:19.960
<v Speaker 1>in those stations, the longer you stay there, you start

0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:22.400
<v Speaker 1>to not only you know the community, you know where

0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:25.880
<v Speaker 1>something doesn't quite feel right within the community too. That's

0:29:25.920 --> 0:29:27.160
<v Speaker 1>a benefit that you get from it.

0:29:27.600 --> 0:29:29.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, when it sticks out some different.

0:29:30.000 --> 0:29:34.240
<v Speaker 1>Hey, when you join the police so young, how did

0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:36.800
<v Speaker 1>the perception of the public and your friends and family,

0:29:36.840 --> 0:29:40.120
<v Speaker 1>because I know once you become a police and it's

0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:44.040
<v Speaker 1>a trap that you fall into, that that becomes your

0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:46.840
<v Speaker 1>identity and people, oh, you're a cop. You're a cop.

0:29:46.880 --> 0:29:48.840
<v Speaker 1>Like you gather a party as an eighteen or nine

0:29:48.920 --> 0:29:51.240
<v Speaker 1>eren year old and people will be pointing out, you're

0:29:51.280 --> 0:29:55.400
<v Speaker 1>a cop. And how did you deal with that? Did

0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:57.600
<v Speaker 1>you notice the difference that once you join the police,

0:29:57.600 --> 0:30:00.320
<v Speaker 1>that's what you were marked as the cop wherever you went.

0:30:00.880 --> 0:30:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, A bit of an interesting one in terms of like,

0:30:04.240 --> 0:30:09.080
<v Speaker 2>definitely my community. I suppose the biggest thing, the biggest

0:30:09.280 --> 0:30:12.400
<v Speaker 2>part of my community that didn't really affect me but

0:30:12.520 --> 0:30:16.280
<v Speaker 2>was the biggest change was definitely my footy club. Standard

0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:18.880
<v Speaker 2>footay club full of a bunch of boys. There definitely wasn't

0:30:18.920 --> 0:30:23.040
<v Speaker 2>female football teams at that stage. Playing in my local club,

0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:25.440
<v Speaker 2>I was quite lucky in the sense of though when

0:30:25.480 --> 0:30:27.480
<v Speaker 2>I played. When I was in high school, I played

0:30:27.480 --> 0:30:30.840
<v Speaker 2>all basketball and in my junior years I played footy.

0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:33.480
<v Speaker 2>But when I left the high school, I went straight

0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:36.200
<v Speaker 2>back to footy. So I actually entered into the club

0:30:36.240 --> 0:30:39.320
<v Speaker 2>again as a copper. So it wasn't I wasn't a

0:30:39.320 --> 0:30:41.240
<v Speaker 2>police officer before I joined, and then they had to

0:30:41.280 --> 0:30:43.440
<v Speaker 2>deal with that they knew me straight away from the

0:30:43.480 --> 0:30:47.640
<v Speaker 2>outset as a copper. I think I held myself in

0:30:47.680 --> 0:30:49.760
<v Speaker 2>good regard and I was a good professional kid, and

0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:52.560
<v Speaker 2>I I didn't make too many enemies or anything. So

0:30:53.600 --> 0:30:55.200
<v Speaker 2>I generally got a lot of respect out of my

0:30:55.240 --> 0:30:59.680
<v Speaker 2>mates from that, and they quickly tuned in to go

0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:02.640
<v Speaker 2>right cool, there's certain things we don't do around Macha

0:31:02.960 --> 0:31:05.080
<v Speaker 2>or you know, there's certain things we don't say, and

0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:07.720
<v Speaker 2>let's just respect what he does for a job. There

0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:09.600
<v Speaker 2>was one or two times it got a bit sticky

0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:12.720
<v Speaker 2>if I saw them out and about, you know, in clubs,

0:31:12.760 --> 0:31:15.800
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, they were intoxicat I had one mate take

0:31:15.880 --> 0:31:19.520
<v Speaker 2>my torch off my belt once and my partner subsequently

0:31:19.600 --> 0:31:22.000
<v Speaker 2>went went ballistic at him, and I was like, mate, yeah,

0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:23.960
<v Speaker 2>there's certain lives you don't cross, because if you'd taken

0:31:23.960 --> 0:31:27.320
<v Speaker 2>something else, obviously that's a lot worse. So he quickly

0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:30.440
<v Speaker 2>learned that one. But no, I didn't get any agree

0:31:30.600 --> 0:31:34.000
<v Speaker 2>for it, and I'm very thankful that those mates who

0:31:34.000 --> 0:31:36.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm still all friends with now obviously respected what I

0:31:36.440 --> 0:31:39.400
<v Speaker 2>did at the time. And within my family, yeah, obviously

0:31:39.600 --> 0:31:43.120
<v Speaker 2>Dad being a police officer didn't didn't change anything for me.

0:31:43.160 --> 0:31:46.239
<v Speaker 1>There. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it When you talk with

0:31:46.280 --> 0:31:49.200
<v Speaker 1>your mates and around that footy culture and all that.

0:31:49.720 --> 0:31:53.280
<v Speaker 1>There's some places you'd rather not be known as a

0:31:53.720 --> 0:31:55.800
<v Speaker 1>name as a cop. But I can just imagine thinking

0:31:55.800 --> 0:31:58.480
<v Speaker 1>that's funny when you're coming into the pub and your

0:31:58.480 --> 0:32:01.080
<v Speaker 1>mate's taking your bat nor whatever, taken a run off

0:32:01.120 --> 0:32:03.640
<v Speaker 1>with your hat and think it's hilarious. I had to

0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:06.280
<v Speaker 1>very I think it was in the first year, just

0:32:06.320 --> 0:32:09.600
<v Speaker 1>come out of probationary constable on night shift, been to

0:32:09.640 --> 0:32:12.960
<v Speaker 1>a party, a big party and out of control party

0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:14.800
<v Speaker 1>as a type of parties that you would go to

0:32:15.200 --> 0:32:17.520
<v Speaker 1>of a very good friend and had a live band there.

0:32:17.560 --> 0:32:20.920
<v Speaker 1>And when I started the night shift, the area that

0:32:21.000 --> 0:32:23.360
<v Speaker 1>I was working covered that party, and there was a

0:32:23.520 --> 0:32:26.240
<v Speaker 1>you have the job list when you start night shift

0:32:26.280 --> 0:32:28.760
<v Speaker 1>and the jobs what jobs, and there was about four

0:32:28.880 --> 0:32:34.040
<v Speaker 1>noise complaints to that particular address. And I said to

0:32:34.120 --> 0:32:36.680
<v Speaker 1>the senior constable or sergeant that I was working with

0:32:36.720 --> 0:32:40.280
<v Speaker 1>at the time, look, I actually just came from that party.

0:32:40.320 --> 0:32:43.040
<v Speaker 1>This could be embarrassing if we go there to close

0:32:43.080 --> 0:32:46.840
<v Speaker 1>it down. So we pulled up there at the party

0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:51.520
<v Speaker 1>and it was a good cop. The person I was

0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:53.400
<v Speaker 1>working with. I said, look, I think I might be

0:32:53.400 --> 0:32:55.400
<v Speaker 1>able to handle this better if I just go in

0:32:55.440 --> 0:32:57.400
<v Speaker 1>on my own. I don't think you really want to

0:32:57.440 --> 0:32:59.720
<v Speaker 1>go in there and see what's going on. How about

0:33:00.080 --> 0:33:02.280
<v Speaker 1>just going and if I can get the music stopped

0:33:02.560 --> 0:33:06.680
<v Speaker 1>with everyone's happy. And so I've walked in and I'm

0:33:06.800 --> 0:33:11.120
<v Speaker 1>in my uniform, walked in and the mates and friends

0:33:11.120 --> 0:33:13.760
<v Speaker 1>are all giving it to me. What are you doing here? Great,

0:33:13.760 --> 0:33:15.600
<v Speaker 1>you can come back. I'm here to tea to turn

0:33:15.680 --> 0:33:18.200
<v Speaker 1>the stop the band plane, turn the music off and

0:33:18.520 --> 0:33:21.000
<v Speaker 1>stop it. They thought that was hilarious, and I had

0:33:21.040 --> 0:33:23.800
<v Speaker 1>to make my point and like, no, it's got to stop.

0:33:23.880 --> 0:33:26.440
<v Speaker 1>This is Yeah, I'm going to get in all sorts

0:33:26.480 --> 0:33:30.120
<v Speaker 1>of shit. As I was walking out there, I'm hearing mates,

0:33:30.160 --> 0:33:32.760
<v Speaker 1>you'll out Jesus jubiling, you've changed more than your clothes

0:33:32.840 --> 0:33:36.040
<v Speaker 1>and that sort of shit. The next day they phoned

0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:39.400
<v Speaker 1>up and apologized or in the afternoon. They weren't awake

0:33:39.440 --> 0:33:41.880
<v Speaker 1>in the morning. But yeah, they're the type of situations

0:33:41.960 --> 0:33:45.600
<v Speaker 1>you can find yourself in. So to tests you in

0:33:45.600 --> 0:33:47.400
<v Speaker 1>a way too, doesn't it. You have to have to

0:33:47.400 --> 0:33:49.600
<v Speaker 1>know the parameters that you can hold.

0:33:50.000 --> 0:33:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely, And that just reminded me then of there

0:33:52.680 --> 0:33:54.880
<v Speaker 2>was one sticky sort of scenario where two of my

0:33:54.880 --> 0:33:57.200
<v Speaker 2>mates from my footy club were starting to blue with

0:33:57.240 --> 0:33:59.400
<v Speaker 2>each other at the front of a nightclub. Yeah. We

0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:01.600
<v Speaker 2>subsequent there and I work out that I know both

0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:04.440
<v Speaker 2>of them and they're just the quarrying over something stupid

0:34:04.800 --> 0:34:06.440
<v Speaker 2>and I was trying to sort them out and go,

0:34:06.640 --> 0:34:08.520
<v Speaker 2>guys like, if you don't pull your heads in, my

0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:11.399
<v Speaker 2>offside has got to arresture. Well, I have to wrest

0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:13.560
<v Speaker 2>you quite frankly. You know, there's all members of the

0:34:13.600 --> 0:34:15.400
<v Speaker 2>public that are watching, and I'm getting other guys in

0:34:15.400 --> 0:34:18.640
<v Speaker 2>the foota club to tear them apart, and they eventually

0:34:18.680 --> 0:34:21.400
<v Speaker 2>did and same thing. Yeah, next day at footay training,

0:34:21.560 --> 0:34:24.920
<v Speaker 2>very very apologetic, just full of booze and bad ideas obviously,

0:34:24.960 --> 0:34:26.520
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, it does put you in a weird position,

0:34:26.560 --> 0:34:27.120
<v Speaker 2>that's for sure.

0:34:27.440 --> 0:34:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And that's where it's important if you're working with

0:34:30.680 --> 0:34:33.799
<v Speaker 1>good cops that can guide you through that, because most

0:34:33.800 --> 0:34:36.080
<v Speaker 1>cops have been through situations like that where they're going

0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:40.560
<v Speaker 1>to make a decision in an environment that makes it

0:34:40.600 --> 0:34:44.080
<v Speaker 1>a little bit awkward. You spent three years in the

0:34:44.120 --> 0:34:49.480
<v Speaker 1>Metro area, then you applied to go out into the bush.

0:34:49.760 --> 0:34:51.319
<v Speaker 1>What inspired that and where did you go?

0:34:52.320 --> 0:34:56.320
<v Speaker 2>I went up to South Edland and so I'd left

0:34:56.360 --> 0:35:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Wembley due to that was due to tenure, so I

0:35:01.080 --> 0:35:03.520
<v Speaker 2>had to move on from that area. We have to

0:35:03.560 --> 0:35:07.400
<v Speaker 2>move on continuously over in Waypole here at certain locations.

0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:10.759
<v Speaker 2>And I went over to Scarborough initially, and I think

0:35:10.800 --> 0:35:13.600
<v Speaker 2>I'd only been there for two or three months. And

0:35:13.800 --> 0:35:17.840
<v Speaker 2>my partner at the time she wanted to go bush,

0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:21.640
<v Speaker 2>so she applied for South Headland, got it and I

0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:24.360
<v Speaker 2>subsequently just followed her up got the plus one ticket.

0:35:24.520 --> 0:35:28.280
<v Speaker 2>So look, I'd never I had never intended on going.

0:35:28.360 --> 0:35:31.360
<v Speaker 2>When I was younger, my dad had to go to

0:35:31.480 --> 0:35:34.239
<v Speaker 2>Geraldon for his country service and I say, I have

0:35:34.360 --> 0:35:37.480
<v Speaker 2>to go for country service. I put that lightly because

0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:39.839
<v Speaker 2>it just depends where the police forces are at the time.

0:35:40.239 --> 0:35:45.800
<v Speaker 2>He subsequently had to go because forensic's forensic specialists were

0:35:45.880 --> 0:35:48.879
<v Speaker 2>short in different country areas and he hadn't gone yet.

0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:50.600
<v Speaker 2>So they can pull the card on you. And obviously

0:35:50.600 --> 0:35:53.439
<v Speaker 2>you signed the dotted line when you apply, and part

0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:56.279
<v Speaker 2>of that is that it's expected you'll go country, but

0:35:56.400 --> 0:35:58.960
<v Speaker 2>you can very easily go your whole career and not

0:35:59.080 --> 0:36:01.040
<v Speaker 2>have to go country. Is quite frankly, that's where the

0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:02.959
<v Speaker 2>money is and a lot of people will fight tooth

0:36:03.000 --> 0:36:06.440
<v Speaker 2>and nail to go country. So South Headland was definitely

0:36:06.440 --> 0:36:09.520
<v Speaker 2>one of those places where you actually had to apply

0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:12.279
<v Speaker 2>yourself and put a good application in to get it

0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:15.120
<v Speaker 2>because not everyone could get there. There was a good

0:36:15.480 --> 0:36:17.360
<v Speaker 2>coin to be made, so I was quite lucky that

0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:19.440
<v Speaker 2>my partner at time got it. I got the plus

0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:22.520
<v Speaker 2>one and I had a ball. It was something that

0:36:22.960 --> 0:36:25.080
<v Speaker 2>I just sort of said yes to at the last minute.

0:36:25.080 --> 0:36:27.000
<v Speaker 2>I had no intention of it, like I said, but

0:36:27.360 --> 0:36:29.680
<v Speaker 2>I loved it for the small community that it was.

0:36:30.520 --> 0:36:32.520
<v Speaker 2>It was the best footy I'd ever played. Played country

0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:34.560
<v Speaker 2>footy up there as well. That was a he was

0:36:34.560 --> 0:36:37.360
<v Speaker 2>an eye opener as well to play against different people

0:36:37.360 --> 0:36:40.160
<v Speaker 2>within the town and quite frankly people I'm locking up,

0:36:40.560 --> 0:36:42.960
<v Speaker 2>people who I'm going to add of control bar parties

0:36:43.120 --> 0:36:46.320
<v Speaker 2>and shutting down and then the next weekend I'm subsequently

0:36:46.360 --> 0:36:49.200
<v Speaker 2>playing them. So that went down like a lead balloon sometimes.

0:36:49.600 --> 0:36:52.239
<v Speaker 2>But no, it was a great experience, that's for sure.

0:36:52.360 --> 0:36:53.240
<v Speaker 2>It grew me up again.

0:36:54.120 --> 0:36:56.399
<v Speaker 1>For people that don't know Port Headland up in the.

0:36:56.320 --> 0:36:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Pilbro Yes, Yeah, so you're looking at about sixteen hour

0:36:59.760 --> 0:37:03.040
<v Speaker 2>drive north from Perth if you go through the Guts,

0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:04.880
<v Speaker 2>if you go the coastal way, I think it's another

0:37:05.200 --> 0:37:06.520
<v Speaker 2>eighteen or nineteen hours.

0:37:06.600 --> 0:37:10.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and Okay, so it's very isolated in there. That

0:37:10.640 --> 0:37:13.000
<v Speaker 1>people who have seen that movie Red Dog that was

0:37:13.239 --> 0:37:16.759
<v Speaker 1>filmed up up Brown there, and I spent a lot

0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:20.080
<v Speaker 1>of time up in that region, then the Red Dog

0:37:20.239 --> 0:37:22.319
<v Speaker 1>is not that the movie The Red Dog is not

0:37:22.640 --> 0:37:26.879
<v Speaker 1>dissimilar to the type of people in towns in there.

0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:32.600
<v Speaker 1>It's isolated, great beautiful, beautiful area. Like it's just it's yeah,

0:37:32.840 --> 0:37:36.000
<v Speaker 1>it's hard to describe, but that would have had its

0:37:36.040 --> 0:37:39.600
<v Speaker 1>own own challenges and been a cop in a small

0:37:39.600 --> 0:37:42.279
<v Speaker 1>community like that, you're never really off duey.

0:37:42.040 --> 0:37:46.560
<v Speaker 2>Are No, definitely not like to be in a town

0:37:46.600 --> 0:37:50.640
<v Speaker 2>where quite frankly, I could jog around town I could

0:37:50.680 --> 0:37:53.239
<v Speaker 2>probably do two or three laps of that place for

0:37:53.600 --> 0:37:56.440
<v Speaker 2>a good job for the day. So yeah, you're you know,

0:37:56.480 --> 0:37:58.520
<v Speaker 2>you're in a place where you walk into work, you

0:37:58.600 --> 0:38:02.440
<v Speaker 2>go into the shops where local crap heads are, You're

0:38:02.440 --> 0:38:04.399
<v Speaker 2>probably going out to have a beer and there's probably

0:38:04.440 --> 0:38:06.680
<v Speaker 2>going to be someone that you've locked up before, or

0:38:06.719 --> 0:38:08.880
<v Speaker 2>you're going to be expected to do something because everyone

0:38:09.040 --> 0:38:11.799
<v Speaker 2>knows that you're a copper in town. Yeah, as I said,

0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:14.920
<v Speaker 2>same at the Foota club, So you're never off duty,

0:38:14.960 --> 0:38:17.320
<v Speaker 2>but also you're always watched as well in the same sense.

0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:20.600
<v Speaker 2>But then it would get even more remote again whereby

0:38:20.640 --> 0:38:22.880
<v Speaker 2>we would go and help out outstations. So you know,

0:38:22.880 --> 0:38:24.879
<v Speaker 2>I'd gone and worked and acted up in a place

0:38:24.920 --> 0:38:27.479
<v Speaker 2>called Marble Bar. It's only a three man police station

0:38:27.640 --> 0:38:32.560
<v Speaker 2>and your backup is two hours away. Yeah, so if

0:38:32.560 --> 0:38:36.400
<v Speaker 2>something goes wrong there, you're it. And yeah, you're not

0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:37.920
<v Speaker 2>relying on anyone else, that's for sure.

0:38:38.200 --> 0:38:42.640
<v Speaker 1>That's the responsibility that those country cops carry, Isn't it

0:38:42.719 --> 0:38:45.120
<v Speaker 1>Like you are very much on your own. You've got

0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:49.840
<v Speaker 1>to make make decisions and you just don't have that backup.

0:38:50.160 --> 0:38:53.640
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I don't think for people that haven't been

0:38:53.719 --> 0:38:56.640
<v Speaker 1>up in that region can appreciate how isolated the region is.

0:38:56.840 --> 0:38:58.880
<v Speaker 1>You can drive for hours on the road and not

0:38:58.960 --> 0:39:02.360
<v Speaker 1>pass anyone. The first time I went there from Sydney

0:39:02.400 --> 0:39:04.439
<v Speaker 1>and you drive along the road and people wave every

0:39:04.440 --> 0:39:07.400
<v Speaker 1>time a cargoes passed, I couldn't understand stand that. I

0:39:07.480 --> 0:39:12.439
<v Speaker 1>realized cars don't pass that very very social interaction. Yeah,

0:39:12.520 --> 0:39:16.280
<v Speaker 1>you're meant to Wave. It would have been some difference

0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:19.960
<v Speaker 1>from the policing in the Metro areas because you've got

0:39:20.000 --> 0:39:24.239
<v Speaker 1>some like indigenous communities up there, and that would have

0:39:24.280 --> 0:39:26.000
<v Speaker 1>been another aspect of policing.

0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:29.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was huge up there obviously that you know,

0:39:29.120 --> 0:39:31.520
<v Speaker 2>quite frankly eighty five ninety percent of our work i'd

0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:37.000
<v Speaker 2>say so dealing with the mining fivefo persons. But also yeah,

0:39:37.040 --> 0:39:39.520
<v Speaker 2>that that very much indigenous community in and around the

0:39:39.560 --> 0:39:41.920
<v Speaker 2>area as well, coming in from like I'm saying, a

0:39:41.960 --> 0:39:45.960
<v Speaker 2>bush bush place and South Headland is a city to

0:39:46.040 --> 0:39:49.399
<v Speaker 2>them and just assimilating, trying to work out the ins

0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:52.120
<v Speaker 2>and outs and what's right and wrong and their law

0:39:52.239 --> 0:39:55.319
<v Speaker 2>versus our law, white versus black law. It's just I

0:39:55.360 --> 0:39:57.279
<v Speaker 2>do feel for them and it must be such a

0:39:57.320 --> 0:40:01.440
<v Speaker 2>confusing thing and your tread around it so carefully as

0:40:01.440 --> 0:40:04.560
<v Speaker 2>a copper, and you're dead right, it is completely different

0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:07.399
<v Speaker 2>policing to the Metro area, whereby you've got a lot

0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:10.920
<v Speaker 2>more you've got a lot more say in the outcome.

0:40:11.239 --> 0:40:15.000
<v Speaker 2>And we talk again about the ability to de escalate

0:40:15.040 --> 0:40:17.839
<v Speaker 2>a situation because you can't afford for it to get

0:40:17.840 --> 0:40:19.640
<v Speaker 2>out of hand and out of control, and it can

0:40:19.680 --> 0:40:22.560
<v Speaker 2>get out of hand very very quickly, obviously, so you've

0:40:22.560 --> 0:40:24.720
<v Speaker 2>got to treade ward very carefully in that regard.

0:40:24.880 --> 0:40:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and the cultural sensitivity and as you identified, like

0:40:28.080 --> 0:40:31.760
<v Speaker 1>people coming from very remote areas and yeah, that's coming

0:40:31.760 --> 0:40:33.960
<v Speaker 1>into the big smoke a small town like you were

0:40:34.000 --> 0:40:37.080
<v Speaker 1>working at for people. So yeah, I could imagine there'd

0:40:37.080 --> 0:40:41.319
<v Speaker 1>be a lot of challenges, but also rewarding working in

0:40:41.560 --> 0:40:43.640
<v Speaker 1>a country police station, like you can really make a

0:40:43.680 --> 0:40:44.880
<v Speaker 1>difference for a community.

0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh, definitely, definitely. Like I've still got one of my

0:40:48.600 --> 0:40:52.239
<v Speaker 2>one of my favorite photos were it was on Christmas Day,

0:40:52.239 --> 0:40:55.359
<v Speaker 2>I think, and we were driving around, driving around town.

0:40:55.440 --> 0:40:58.640
<v Speaker 2>I was on day shift. We had the Santa Hats

0:40:58.640 --> 0:41:01.000
<v Speaker 2>on and stuff, and we came to one household which

0:41:01.560 --> 0:41:04.879
<v Speaker 2>was normally a problem household, and it was pretty early

0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:06.920
<v Speaker 2>in the morning, so we weren't getting many dramas but

0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:10.200
<v Speaker 2>rocking up and just having three or four young Indigenous

0:41:10.280 --> 0:41:12.879
<v Speaker 2>kids by the ages of four to six coming out

0:41:12.920 --> 0:41:14.920
<v Speaker 2>and they just thought it was the best thing in

0:41:14.920 --> 0:41:16.600
<v Speaker 2>the world that we were there, just in Santa hats.

0:41:16.640 --> 0:41:18.600
<v Speaker 2>That was all it was. I think we had some

0:41:18.680 --> 0:41:22.560
<v Speaker 2>lollibags or something and they jumped in the back of

0:41:22.600 --> 0:41:25.560
<v Speaker 2>the van, door open. I sat next to it, and

0:41:25.600 --> 0:41:27.880
<v Speaker 2>then they were just jumping all over me like a playground.

0:41:27.880 --> 0:41:29.399
<v Speaker 2>And I've got a photo of that and it's still

0:41:29.440 --> 0:41:32.600
<v Speaker 2>one of my favorite photos from there. Just to have that,

0:41:32.719 --> 0:41:35.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, that happiness from those kids in that regard,

0:41:35.120 --> 0:41:37.520
<v Speaker 2>but then also out in the vast communities and what

0:41:37.560 --> 0:41:39.719
<v Speaker 2>you'd get from them if you connected well and you

0:41:40.760 --> 0:41:44.160
<v Speaker 2>de escalated a situation which was a good outcome.

0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:47.680
<v Speaker 1>That's crucial. I know a lot of Indigenous communities and

0:41:47.719 --> 0:41:50.160
<v Speaker 1>they say, we get the police in. That takes us

0:41:50.200 --> 0:41:52.200
<v Speaker 1>a couple of years to train them, and then when

0:41:52.239 --> 0:41:55.759
<v Speaker 1>we train them, they leave. But they say, and I've

0:41:55.760 --> 0:41:59.120
<v Speaker 1>seen it in communities, if they got a it might

0:41:59.160 --> 0:42:03.360
<v Speaker 1>only be one police officer that gets that rapport happening

0:42:03.360 --> 0:42:06.200
<v Speaker 1>with the communities. That can make a world of a

0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:11.120
<v Speaker 1>world of difference. You also those parts had the deal

0:42:11.120 --> 0:42:14.360
<v Speaker 1>with the mining guys and girls.

0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:19.080
<v Speaker 2>Now, yeah, they're different again. You know, they're quite highly strung.

0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:22.480
<v Speaker 2>You're dealing with the mental health side of the firefight life.

0:42:22.520 --> 0:42:25.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, their families are back at home. Some people

0:42:25.520 --> 0:42:28.960
<v Speaker 2>that have come up and they're just working their ass

0:42:28.960 --> 0:42:32.359
<v Speaker 2>off to be able to provide for someone back at home,

0:42:32.480 --> 0:42:34.520
<v Speaker 2>and they want to let some steam off every now

0:42:34.520 --> 0:42:35.800
<v Speaker 2>and then they go to the local pub, but it

0:42:35.880 --> 0:42:37.399
<v Speaker 2>might just get a little bit out of hand, So

0:42:37.600 --> 0:42:40.439
<v Speaker 2>there's that side of it. They're also usually nine times

0:42:40.480 --> 0:42:44.399
<v Speaker 2>out of ten, not small people, so yeah, you're dealing

0:42:44.480 --> 0:42:47.440
<v Speaker 2>with some pretty big lads. So yeah, that had its

0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:49.560
<v Speaker 2>own dynamic as well. Definitely.

0:42:50.080 --> 0:42:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you talk about the mental health and note

0:42:52.880 --> 0:42:55.320
<v Speaker 1>we're going to touch on it from policing, but I

0:42:55.360 --> 0:42:58.400
<v Speaker 1>think they're starting to identify that. Yeah, the fly and

0:42:58.480 --> 0:43:01.560
<v Speaker 1>fly out life is not not that healthy. I saw

0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:04.719
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people over in wa young guys that

0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:08.600
<v Speaker 1>were getting paid ridiculous amounts of money that probably wasn't

0:43:08.640 --> 0:43:10.879
<v Speaker 1>really warranted. The work that they were doing was hard.

0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:12.719
<v Speaker 1>They were working in the mines, coming back to the

0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:16.120
<v Speaker 1>city and think, yeah, at eighteen, we all should be

0:43:16.200 --> 0:43:18.920
<v Speaker 1>getting paid one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. It was

0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:23.320
<v Speaker 1>just unrealistic. And I know it crashed at certain stages,

0:43:23.640 --> 0:43:26.080
<v Speaker 1>but that causes problems and then the people away from

0:43:26.120 --> 0:43:28.920
<v Speaker 1>their families. It seems good on paper, but doing it

0:43:28.960 --> 0:43:31.840
<v Speaker 1>for an extended period of time does have an impact.

0:43:32.280 --> 0:43:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh, definitely. And that's the price that you're paying by

0:43:34.719 --> 0:43:38.640
<v Speaker 2>earning that money is you're saying, See, it's work life

0:43:38.640 --> 0:43:42.920
<v Speaker 2>balance and family life, and you're secluded. You are out

0:43:42.920 --> 0:43:45.880
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of nowhere. Sometimes, you know, you would

0:43:46.000 --> 0:43:48.960
<v Speaker 2>be considered very lucky to work inside of town like

0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:52.960
<v Speaker 2>south Headland. Normally south Headlands you fly in place and

0:43:52.960 --> 0:43:54.960
<v Speaker 2>then you're actually working another hour and a half two

0:43:54.960 --> 0:43:57.279
<v Speaker 2>hours out of town, which is even more remote. So

0:43:57.640 --> 0:43:59.560
<v Speaker 2>they're getting better at it. It's the same as everywhere

0:43:59.600 --> 0:44:02.239
<v Speaker 2>in society right now. You know, there's the jobs are

0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:06.280
<v Speaker 2>now you know, advertised within the FIFO industry with mental

0:44:06.280 --> 0:44:09.839
<v Speaker 2>health work programs and all these mindfulness things, which is good.

0:44:10.200 --> 0:44:11.800
<v Speaker 2>Can still get better obviously.

0:44:11.560 --> 0:44:15.080
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, yeah, but at least it's been identified. Another

0:44:15.160 --> 0:44:19.279
<v Speaker 1>issue I found fascinating in w A was you had

0:44:19.320 --> 0:44:22.480
<v Speaker 1>a lot of English cops over there that came in

0:44:22.520 --> 0:44:26.360
<v Speaker 1>from the UK, a recruiting program that came in. I

0:44:26.480 --> 0:44:28.439
<v Speaker 1>met a few of them when I was over there,

0:44:28.520 --> 0:44:32.400
<v Speaker 1>and then the people that we're talking about, the UK

0:44:32.480 --> 0:44:34.919
<v Speaker 1>cops have come over, but a lot of them ended

0:44:35.000 --> 0:44:38.319
<v Speaker 1>up leaving the w A police because they could make

0:44:38.360 --> 0:44:40.600
<v Speaker 1>more money in the in the mining industry.

0:44:41.040 --> 0:44:44.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they did. They did two waves of they call

0:44:44.680 --> 0:44:48.000
<v Speaker 2>them transitional police officers. At the time, and the first

0:44:48.000 --> 0:44:49.840
<v Speaker 2>wave was supposed to be the ubut thing. It was

0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:52.960
<v Speaker 2>going to top a numbers up. All these UK coppers

0:44:52.960 --> 0:44:55.279
<v Speaker 2>were thinking brilliant and go to go of you know,

0:44:55.320 --> 0:44:59.000
<v Speaker 2>the sunny life style of Perth in Australia. They came

0:44:59.040 --> 0:45:01.839
<v Speaker 2>over to my understanding, I think they all got citizenships,

0:45:01.960 --> 0:45:05.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, with that, and then they rocked up, thought nah,

0:45:05.560 --> 0:45:07.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go up north and earn a bit

0:45:07.080 --> 0:45:09.319
<v Speaker 2>more money, and they resigned straight away after. So they

0:45:09.360 --> 0:45:11.919
<v Speaker 2>spent all this time and money's swinging them all over

0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:15.200
<v Speaker 2>and then we lost most of them. Or they applied

0:45:15.239 --> 0:45:17.960
<v Speaker 2>for regional police stations, thinking that they could go and

0:45:18.000 --> 0:45:21.600
<v Speaker 2>do that, either for a quick promotion or a quick

0:45:21.719 --> 0:45:24.720
<v Speaker 2>quick pay, and going what the hell have I jumped

0:45:24.760 --> 0:45:25.440
<v Speaker 2>into here?

0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:26.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:45:27.120 --> 0:45:28.280
<v Speaker 2>I would have been an eye opener.

0:45:28.520 --> 0:45:31.520
<v Speaker 1>I spoke to a couple of them that come from

0:45:32.320 --> 0:45:36.800
<v Speaker 1>London and ended up in ye somewhere like Kartha or

0:45:36.840 --> 0:45:41.200
<v Speaker 1>somewhere the Creek or yeah, what what is going on here?

0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:44.560
<v Speaker 1>But okay, so you had had four years up there

0:45:44.560 --> 0:45:47.520
<v Speaker 1>and that was considered that a good experience.

0:45:48.160 --> 0:45:50.680
<v Speaker 2>I loved it. I absolutely loved it. The you know,

0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:54.360
<v Speaker 2>I got some lifelong friends from it. I said, the

0:45:54.360 --> 0:45:57.560
<v Speaker 2>footy I loved the most. That's probably my best memory

0:45:57.560 --> 0:46:01.240
<v Speaker 2>from it. Even though you know you'd be playing footy,

0:46:01.239 --> 0:46:03.360
<v Speaker 2>you'd get rid of the ball and probably ten fifteen

0:46:03.400 --> 0:46:05.160
<v Speaker 2>minutes later you're copping an elbow over the back of

0:46:05.160 --> 0:46:07.080
<v Speaker 2>the head and it's the last crook that you locked up.

0:46:07.120 --> 0:46:09.280
<v Speaker 2>But I actually enjoyed at the end of those games

0:46:09.320 --> 0:46:10.960
<v Speaker 2>going up to the feller buying them a beer and

0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:13.200
<v Speaker 2>going like, yeah, you got me, no dramas, but we'll

0:46:13.239 --> 0:46:15.200
<v Speaker 2>wait till next game and I'll get your back. And

0:46:15.239 --> 0:46:17.920
<v Speaker 2>that gained me also respect within the community as well,

0:46:17.960 --> 0:46:20.680
<v Speaker 2>like the fact that I could take it. I remember

0:46:20.719 --> 0:46:23.080
<v Speaker 2>going to some some out of control parties after a

0:46:23.200 --> 0:46:26.919
<v Speaker 2>night of playing the like the derby team so port

0:46:26.960 --> 0:46:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Headler vers South Headland. I played for port Headlam and

0:46:30.360 --> 0:46:32.239
<v Speaker 2>I'd go to night shift straight after dealing with an

0:46:32.239 --> 0:46:35.560
<v Speaker 2>out of control party and I just played this whole

0:46:35.560 --> 0:46:37.960
<v Speaker 2>team and one of the guys I bought a beer

0:46:38.000 --> 0:46:39.719
<v Speaker 2>for I had a can of solo because I was

0:46:39.760 --> 0:46:42.120
<v Speaker 2>going to work after, but he was the first one

0:46:42.160 --> 0:46:43.960
<v Speaker 2>out the door when I said, hey, mate, you know

0:46:44.400 --> 0:46:46.000
<v Speaker 2>we've been called here because you guys are a bit

0:46:46.040 --> 0:46:48.120
<v Speaker 2>loud and noisy. He actually was the one that went

0:46:48.120 --> 0:46:50.080
<v Speaker 2>inside and turned it down for me, said, yep, I've

0:46:50.080 --> 0:46:52.680
<v Speaker 2>got a sort it. It's all good, no dramas. So

0:46:52.719 --> 0:46:56.280
<v Speaker 2>that paid dividends. The things I learned put me ahead

0:46:56.440 --> 0:46:58.600
<v Speaker 2>a mile and a half of all the other coppers

0:46:58.600 --> 0:47:01.279
<v Speaker 2>that I've graduated with who stayed in the stayed in

0:47:01.280 --> 0:47:04.120
<v Speaker 2>the Metro area. However, it did get me to that

0:47:04.160 --> 0:47:06.239
<v Speaker 2>point where I was like, you know what, I've done

0:47:06.280 --> 0:47:08.439
<v Speaker 2>my decent amount of general duties now and I'm happy.

0:47:08.480 --> 0:47:12.440
<v Speaker 2>I've done a stint in Metro, a stint in Country's

0:47:12.520 --> 0:47:14.839
<v Speaker 2>what's the next thing? And that's where that's what brought

0:47:14.840 --> 0:47:15.360
<v Speaker 2>me to diving.

0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:18.840
<v Speaker 1>And that's so diving. And you thought laying on the

0:47:18.840 --> 0:47:21.720
<v Speaker 1>beach and just snorkeling every now and then and coming

0:47:21.760 --> 0:47:27.040
<v Speaker 1>out and drying off. Okay, you what inspired you to diving?

0:47:27.360 --> 0:47:31.320
<v Speaker 1>Why particular diving because it's a very specialist area of policing.

0:47:31.719 --> 0:47:36.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was purely that. I actually was just I

0:47:36.520 --> 0:47:38.839
<v Speaker 2>was willing to cut my teeth on whatever I could

0:47:38.880 --> 0:47:41.200
<v Speaker 2>get into that was a specialist role. I initially tried

0:47:41.239 --> 0:47:43.719
<v Speaker 2>out for the tactical unit, the TIG that we called

0:47:43.800 --> 0:47:46.440
<v Speaker 2>him over here, so I trained while I was up there,

0:47:46.600 --> 0:47:49.040
<v Speaker 2>I had no guidance whatsoever to do that. I was

0:47:49.080 --> 0:47:52.319
<v Speaker 2>young and dumb, I trained poorly, so I didn't make

0:47:52.320 --> 0:47:55.040
<v Speaker 2>the cut for that, but I was I was bloody

0:47:55.080 --> 0:47:57.560
<v Speaker 2>fit at the end of it. And I was never

0:47:57.560 --> 0:47:59.160
<v Speaker 2>ever going to be a detective, that was for sure.

0:47:59.200 --> 0:48:01.520
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't good at him investigating. I just wanted to,

0:48:02.120 --> 0:48:04.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, physically run and catch crooks and then I

0:48:04.520 --> 0:48:06.000
<v Speaker 2>was willing to hand all them off and someone else

0:48:06.000 --> 0:48:07.759
<v Speaker 2>could take the glory in that regard. I just wanted

0:48:07.800 --> 0:48:11.360
<v Speaker 2>to do the running part, so as soon as the

0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:13.400
<v Speaker 2>tactical side of it it was over. There was a

0:48:13.440 --> 0:48:15.759
<v Speaker 2>couple of weeks after the expression of interest came out

0:48:15.760 --> 0:48:18.480
<v Speaker 2>for the diving side. I hadn't ever done a job

0:48:18.600 --> 0:48:21.319
<v Speaker 2>with water police or divers. I'd not had anything to

0:48:21.360 --> 0:48:24.920
<v Speaker 2>do with them. I knew one guy who nowadays is

0:48:24.960 --> 0:48:26.360
<v Speaker 2>still a very good friend of mine. He was in

0:48:26.400 --> 0:48:28.560
<v Speaker 2>the police footy team and he had just made it

0:48:28.560 --> 0:48:31.040
<v Speaker 2>to divers as well. So I remember it coming out.

0:48:31.080 --> 0:48:33.040
<v Speaker 2>I text him and said, like, okay, mate, you guys

0:48:33.120 --> 0:48:36.960
<v Speaker 2>just put an expression of interest out for diving. What's

0:48:37.040 --> 0:48:39.080
<v Speaker 2>involved with it? Like, I'm pretty good in the water,

0:48:39.280 --> 0:48:41.719
<v Speaker 2>I like swimming, but I don't have my dive ticket

0:48:41.760 --> 0:48:45.480
<v Speaker 2>or anything. What do you recommend He straightaway said, look,

0:48:45.480 --> 0:48:48.160
<v Speaker 2>we've we've only just recently changed it up. You need

0:48:48.200 --> 0:48:50.759
<v Speaker 2>to actually have a dive ticket now because we used

0:48:50.760 --> 0:48:52.440
<v Speaker 2>to teach you how to dive, but that just obviously

0:48:52.480 --> 0:48:53.920
<v Speaker 2>took too long, so we want you to have the

0:48:53.920 --> 0:48:56.239
<v Speaker 2>basics and then we'll train you the rest of the way.

0:48:56.840 --> 0:48:58.600
<v Speaker 2>And we know, shit, where am I going to go

0:48:58.600 --> 0:49:00.640
<v Speaker 2>in South Headland to learn how to dive? So I

0:49:00.640 --> 0:49:04.440
<v Speaker 2>actually had to drive some five or six hours south

0:49:04.640 --> 0:49:07.000
<v Speaker 2>down to Xmouth to go and get my dive ticket.

0:49:07.560 --> 0:49:10.719
<v Speaker 2>So I did that. The only course that was available

0:49:10.800 --> 0:49:13.400
<v Speaker 2>during that time though, was literally twenty four hours before

0:49:13.440 --> 0:49:17.120
<v Speaker 2>the selection course started, so I applied for it, saying hey,

0:49:17.120 --> 0:49:19.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go get this dive ticket. Pick me

0:49:19.600 --> 0:49:21.560
<v Speaker 2>and I'll come down and show what I got. And

0:49:21.920 --> 0:49:25.160
<v Speaker 2>it somehow worked. So yeah, I drove back down to

0:49:25.400 --> 0:49:28.760
<v Speaker 2>south drove up to South Edland, got on a plane,

0:49:29.080 --> 0:49:31.000
<v Speaker 2>came down to perse David, mum and dad and the

0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:33.239
<v Speaker 2>next day started the selection course for a week.

0:49:33.800 --> 0:49:36.279
<v Speaker 1>Okay, and what sort of things did they run you

0:49:36.320 --> 0:49:37.960
<v Speaker 1>through in the selection course?

0:49:38.680 --> 0:49:41.400
<v Speaker 2>So that one week's selection course is, believe it or not,

0:49:41.440 --> 0:49:45.200
<v Speaker 2>it's actually no diving. So that's purely just determining whether

0:49:45.280 --> 0:49:46.839
<v Speaker 2>or not you're going to be the right fit. So

0:49:47.400 --> 0:49:49.760
<v Speaker 2>you've got a lot of running, a lot of finning.

0:49:49.960 --> 0:49:52.480
<v Speaker 2>So just laying on your back with the group of

0:49:52.480 --> 0:49:56.000
<v Speaker 2>people that you apply for apply with sorry up into

0:49:56.040 --> 0:49:58.640
<v Speaker 2>the Swan River, you're just finning from edge to edge.

0:49:58.920 --> 0:50:01.359
<v Speaker 2>They'll put you in positions where they say, right, we're

0:50:01.400 --> 0:50:02.200
<v Speaker 2>going to get from this side.

0:50:02.560 --> 0:50:05.440
<v Speaker 1>And when you say finning, just to explain it to people,

0:50:05.560 --> 0:50:07.839
<v Speaker 1>just on your back in the water, just with your

0:50:08.120 --> 0:50:10.879
<v Speaker 1>fins on and just keeping your head up and doing

0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:11.359
<v Speaker 1>what you need.

0:50:11.640 --> 0:50:13.320
<v Speaker 2>Just hours and hours on end of just finning and

0:50:13.400 --> 0:50:16.800
<v Speaker 2>kicking it. Just it turns your turns, your hitt flexes

0:50:16.800 --> 0:50:20.200
<v Speaker 2>into e cords, I tell you. But it's just about

0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:24.000
<v Speaker 2>endurance and perseverance and what you're going to do when

0:50:24.040 --> 0:50:26.520
<v Speaker 2>it gets shit essentially. So you know they would stick

0:50:26.560 --> 0:50:27.839
<v Speaker 2>us in the side of the river and go right,

0:50:27.880 --> 0:50:29.399
<v Speaker 2>we want you to get from this side to that side.

0:50:29.400 --> 0:50:31.600
<v Speaker 2>And they knew farewell that the tide was about to

0:50:31.640 --> 0:50:33.680
<v Speaker 2>go out and you're about to go against it. It's

0:50:33.680 --> 0:50:36.640
<v Speaker 2>only a hundred and fifty meters sort of fin but

0:50:36.920 --> 0:50:38.080
<v Speaker 2>they know that you're not going to be able to

0:50:38.080 --> 0:50:39.960
<v Speaker 2>get there. In fact, you're actually going to go backwards,

0:50:40.520 --> 0:50:41.759
<v Speaker 2>and it's just to see what you're going to do.

0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:45.120
<v Speaker 2>So all unachievable tasks. Want to make sure that you

0:50:45.160 --> 0:50:47.960
<v Speaker 2>don't quit, you don't give up, and you just keep going. Yeah,

0:50:48.000 --> 0:50:50.440
<v Speaker 2>a lot of late night wake ups. So middle of

0:50:50.480 --> 0:50:53.160
<v Speaker 2>the night, you're sleeping in your swag and the sergeant

0:50:53.160 --> 0:50:55.520
<v Speaker 2>will come in start ringing the bell. Right, we've got

0:50:55.520 --> 0:50:57.960
<v Speaker 2>a swamp that we need to go search. So we'd

0:50:58.000 --> 0:51:01.120
<v Speaker 2>be jumping into this swamp. God God only knows what

0:51:01.160 --> 0:51:03.720
<v Speaker 2>was in it and what we were smelling, but searching

0:51:03.719 --> 0:51:05.960
<v Speaker 2>that at two or three in the morning. Yeah, a

0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:10.640
<v Speaker 2>little bit of study in terms of the physiology of diving,

0:51:10.760 --> 0:51:14.480
<v Speaker 2>just to somewhat understand a bit more about it. But yeah,

0:51:14.520 --> 0:51:16.360
<v Speaker 2>that was a big, big wake up for me in

0:51:16.440 --> 0:51:19.280
<v Speaker 2>terms of, like, shit, I haven't actually done a selection

0:51:19.360 --> 0:51:22.120
<v Speaker 2>course before, and I found out a lot about myself

0:51:22.120 --> 0:51:24.759
<v Speaker 2>in that regard in terms of pushing and what I

0:51:24.800 --> 0:51:26.239
<v Speaker 2>was willing to do. That's sure.

0:51:26.400 --> 0:51:30.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, sleep deprivation and not giving you much feedback, I

0:51:30.440 --> 0:51:31.480
<v Speaker 1>would imagine, and.

0:51:31.640 --> 0:51:35.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely, Yeah, and I hated no feedback because I

0:51:35.360 --> 0:51:39.160
<v Speaker 2>always liked, like, I like succeeding everyone does, yeah, and

0:51:39.239 --> 0:51:41.319
<v Speaker 2>quite frankly, if I fail, that's fine as well, but

0:51:41.400 --> 0:51:42.960
<v Speaker 2>just let me know then I can correct it. But

0:51:43.000 --> 0:51:45.839
<v Speaker 2>when you're just getting told oh, yeah, okay, and then

0:51:45.840 --> 0:51:48.000
<v Speaker 2>they walk off, you're like, shit, did I do good

0:51:48.120 --> 0:51:50.560
<v Speaker 2>or do bad? And that eats up at people and

0:51:50.760 --> 0:51:53.200
<v Speaker 2>they leave subsequently just because I think they've failed and

0:51:53.360 --> 0:51:54.839
<v Speaker 2>they actually were doing fine.

0:51:54.920 --> 0:51:58.160
<v Speaker 1>And I would think some people they'd have to weed

0:51:58.160 --> 0:52:00.719
<v Speaker 1>them out because it would confront like get into this

0:52:00.840 --> 0:52:04.640
<v Speaker 1>swamp and yeah, or a sewer drain whatever, yeah, they

0:52:04.680 --> 0:52:06.719
<v Speaker 1>put you in. Then it wouldn't be for everyone, I

0:52:06.719 --> 0:52:10.360
<v Speaker 1>would imagine. No, So when did they start taking you

0:52:10.480 --> 0:52:11.360
<v Speaker 1>below the surface?

0:52:12.400 --> 0:52:16.480
<v Speaker 2>So you do that one week course. Once you've finished that,

0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:19.200
<v Speaker 2>they'll say yeah or no, you've been invited back for

0:52:19.200 --> 0:52:20.959
<v Speaker 2>the three week You actually go back to your station

0:52:21.000 --> 0:52:22.480
<v Speaker 2>at that point, so I went back to South Headland.

0:52:22.640 --> 0:52:24.400
<v Speaker 2>A couple of weeks later. You get invited back for

0:52:24.400 --> 0:52:27.160
<v Speaker 2>a three week course and that one is very very

0:52:27.239 --> 0:52:30.920
<v Speaker 2>much tied alongside the diving aspects of things. So how

0:52:30.960 --> 0:52:35.719
<v Speaker 2>you actually react underwater, confined space, very dark areas obviously

0:52:35.760 --> 0:52:38.480
<v Speaker 2>no viz and then also the cold the coal was

0:52:38.520 --> 0:52:42.360
<v Speaker 2>a big one, so they put you essentially into hypothermia

0:52:42.560 --> 0:52:45.520
<v Speaker 2>to see what your cognitive load is, how you can react,

0:52:45.840 --> 0:52:48.120
<v Speaker 2>if you can pick up on it, what you're going

0:52:48.200 --> 0:52:51.759
<v Speaker 2>to do to counteract it. And the benefit of me

0:52:51.960 --> 0:52:53.400
<v Speaker 2>being in the squad for so long as I got

0:52:53.400 --> 0:52:55.200
<v Speaker 2>to run these selection courses later, so I've got to

0:52:55.239 --> 0:52:58.120
<v Speaker 2>find out the other side of it. So yeah, those

0:52:58.160 --> 0:53:01.319
<v Speaker 2>three weeks were quite intense as well, but as not

0:53:01.360 --> 0:53:04.240
<v Speaker 2>as physically demanding in terms of endurance, running and fitning

0:53:04.280 --> 0:53:06.840
<v Speaker 2>and all that. It's more technique, I suppose, but a

0:53:06.880 --> 0:53:07.560
<v Speaker 2>bit more mental.

0:53:08.239 --> 0:53:11.680
<v Speaker 1>And the mental aspect of it, the hypothermia and in

0:53:11.800 --> 0:53:14.719
<v Speaker 1>cold water, that can break people down, yeah.

0:53:14.480 --> 0:53:18.200
<v Speaker 2>Big time. Like it's just it's another uncomfortable feeling and

0:53:18.239 --> 0:53:21.200
<v Speaker 2>we want to make sure. Yes, like you know, there's

0:53:21.200 --> 0:53:23.839
<v Speaker 2>a component of the course where we're cutting a piece

0:53:23.880 --> 0:53:24.520
<v Speaker 2>of metal first.

0:53:24.560 --> 0:53:27.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm reading that in your book and I was

0:53:27.840 --> 0:53:30.799
<v Speaker 1>fascinated by it. Tell tell people about that.

0:53:31.200 --> 0:53:33.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I mean it's a it's a great it's

0:53:33.880 --> 0:53:36.720
<v Speaker 2>a great exercise to find out if people will really,

0:53:36.840 --> 0:53:40.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, be able to respond well and operate within

0:53:40.520 --> 0:53:44.000
<v Speaker 2>cold environments. But we're never going to operate in that environment.

0:53:44.239 --> 0:53:46.960
<v Speaker 2>You know it wouldn't be conducive with operational needs and requirements,

0:53:47.000 --> 0:53:48.600
<v Speaker 2>but we take them to the worst case scenario so

0:53:48.640 --> 0:53:50.239
<v Speaker 2>we know that they can operate in anything else. So

0:53:50.320 --> 0:53:53.720
<v Speaker 2>what we do is we we start off the unit

0:53:53.840 --> 0:53:59.319
<v Speaker 2>or the candidates on an afternoon shift. You'll start it

0:53:59.600 --> 0:54:02.400
<v Speaker 2>twelve the twelve in the day and they'll do a

0:54:02.440 --> 0:54:05.719
<v Speaker 2>little bit of PT, get some sort of study out

0:54:05.719 --> 0:54:07.799
<v Speaker 2>of the way. And then we just got told by

0:54:07.840 --> 0:54:09.880
<v Speaker 2>the dive sergeant, right, have a big feed, get a

0:54:09.920 --> 0:54:11.800
<v Speaker 2>lot of water into you because there's a long exercise

0:54:11.840 --> 0:54:14.280
<v Speaker 2>coming and we're working till ten pm a night or something.

0:54:14.920 --> 0:54:16.880
<v Speaker 2>So you go and get a feed in skull as

0:54:16.920 --> 0:54:18.880
<v Speaker 2>much water as you can. Obviously we're going to be

0:54:18.880 --> 0:54:21.520
<v Speaker 2>diving for a while. That's the exercise. And we got

0:54:21.600 --> 0:54:23.480
<v Speaker 2>to the wharf and the sergeant goes right, there's been

0:54:23.480 --> 0:54:26.279
<v Speaker 2>some cast iron rods that we've thrown into the river.

0:54:26.560 --> 0:54:29.680
<v Speaker 2>There's a hacks or blade next to it. Go down,

0:54:29.800 --> 0:54:31.920
<v Speaker 2>find yours. You also got your diving number on it,

0:54:32.280 --> 0:54:34.560
<v Speaker 2>your candidate number. If you don't find it, don't bother

0:54:34.640 --> 0:54:37.040
<v Speaker 2>coming back up because you're not a good police dive

0:54:37.120 --> 0:54:39.480
<v Speaker 2>with Thatt's case, and what we want you to do

0:54:39.560 --> 0:54:42.200
<v Speaker 2>is start cutting off a slither off that metal rod.

0:54:42.320 --> 0:54:43.960
<v Speaker 2>We only want it to be ten to fifteen mil

0:54:44.040 --> 0:54:45.680
<v Speaker 2>whatever it was at the time. You got to the

0:54:45.760 --> 0:54:47.839
<v Speaker 2>end of the shift going there, so you go in.

0:54:48.600 --> 0:54:51.000
<v Speaker 2>You find it to start with the visa isn't that

0:54:51.160 --> 0:54:54.080
<v Speaker 2>bad at the time, But they purposely do it while

0:54:54.120 --> 0:54:57.000
<v Speaker 2>the tide's coming out, so you're getting the muck from

0:54:57.040 --> 0:54:59.160
<v Speaker 2>the rest of the river, so it's making it difficult.

0:55:00.080 --> 0:55:02.680
<v Speaker 2>I tried to establish like a sort of a workbench

0:55:02.760 --> 0:55:05.759
<v Speaker 2>as such, and later I found out that that was

0:55:05.800 --> 0:55:08.800
<v Speaker 2>one of the you know, one of the tests. I

0:55:08.840 --> 0:55:12.839
<v Speaker 2>supposed to get a workbench going to articulate how you

0:55:12.840 --> 0:55:15.760
<v Speaker 2>would operate underwater in a company environment and make it efficient.

0:55:16.560 --> 0:55:20.600
<v Speaker 2>Start hacksaw, and I stupidly got about half an hour

0:55:20.640 --> 0:55:22.319
<v Speaker 2>in I think it was, and I was like, geez,

0:55:22.360 --> 0:55:24.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm not moving very far on this thing. And I

0:55:24.239 --> 0:55:26.080
<v Speaker 2>pulled the hacksaw blade up to look at it, and

0:55:26.120 --> 0:55:27.920
<v Speaker 2>the guys had put it the wrong way around on.

0:55:27.920 --> 0:55:31.520
<v Speaker 1>Me, so it was in. It wasn't just a blade

0:55:31.560 --> 0:55:33.480
<v Speaker 1>that was in a hack you had the saw on it,

0:55:33.520 --> 0:55:36.240
<v Speaker 1>but they'd put the hacks all blade in upside down.

0:55:36.160 --> 0:55:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Upside down, Yeah, and I ended up doing that for

0:55:38.920 --> 0:55:41.839
<v Speaker 2>other candidates later in life. It's just a it's something

0:55:41.880 --> 0:55:43.600
<v Speaker 2>that you do to make sure that you know they're

0:55:43.640 --> 0:55:45.840
<v Speaker 2>operating well and smart and efficient. As I said, so

0:55:46.440 --> 0:55:48.719
<v Speaker 2>work that one out, flipped it over, started getting into

0:55:48.760 --> 0:55:51.240
<v Speaker 2>it at that stage, and then I got to about

0:55:51.480 --> 0:55:53.160
<v Speaker 2>the hour mark and I thought I'm starting to run

0:55:53.160 --> 0:55:56.919
<v Speaker 2>out of air here. So eventually ran out came up.

0:55:57.120 --> 0:55:59.120
<v Speaker 2>So I should also say that it wasn't till the

0:55:59.200 --> 0:56:00.520
<v Speaker 2>end of the shift. It was like, right, you need

0:56:00.520 --> 0:56:02.440
<v Speaker 2>to cut this slither off by the end of your cylinder,

0:56:02.640 --> 0:56:03.960
<v Speaker 2>so don't come up until it's done.

0:56:04.000 --> 0:56:06.239
<v Speaker 1>So how long had you been under the water at

0:56:06.239 --> 0:56:06.840
<v Speaker 1>this stage?

0:56:07.080 --> 0:56:09.400
<v Speaker 2>That'd be about an hour. So the depth that we

0:56:09.400 --> 0:56:11.080
<v Speaker 2>were at and how we're work and give it take

0:56:11.120 --> 0:56:14.080
<v Speaker 2>an hour. So come up. Tell this sergeant, I've effectively

0:56:14.120 --> 0:56:17.080
<v Speaker 2>failed the mission. Yeah, I haven't gotten your slither. And

0:56:17.120 --> 0:56:18.800
<v Speaker 2>he goes, I suppose you want another cylinder then, and

0:56:18.920 --> 0:56:20.719
<v Speaker 2>keep going. I went, yeah, cool, if I'm allowed to.

0:56:20.840 --> 0:56:22.480
<v Speaker 2>So he throws the cylinder in. How to change it

0:56:22.480 --> 0:56:25.200
<v Speaker 2>on the surface, go back under and keep cutting, and

0:56:25.200 --> 0:56:26.719
<v Speaker 2>at that stage I sort of worked out right there's

0:56:26.719 --> 0:56:29.319
<v Speaker 2>about four hours of the shift left. I've done a

0:56:29.400 --> 0:56:32.640
<v Speaker 2>quarter of that. I'm about ten percent of the way

0:56:32.640 --> 0:56:35.440
<v Speaker 2>through this piece of metal. Like, I'm not doing this today,

0:56:36.080 --> 0:56:38.719
<v Speaker 2>so keep going anyway. And I just had this sort

0:56:38.760 --> 0:56:40.799
<v Speaker 2>of mantra going through my head that you know they're

0:56:40.800 --> 0:56:42.160
<v Speaker 2>not going to do anything that's going to kill you,

0:56:42.280 --> 0:56:44.960
<v Speaker 2>So just keep going is what it is, except that

0:56:44.960 --> 0:56:46.799
<v Speaker 2>you're going to fail it. But you know they want

0:56:46.840 --> 0:56:49.640
<v Speaker 2>to see you keep going, so kept going. They come

0:56:49.680 --> 0:56:51.959
<v Speaker 2>down halfway through that rip your mask off. You can't

0:56:51.960 --> 0:56:56.239
<v Speaker 2>see anything. Now, your head's freezing cold. Your mask can

0:56:56.360 --> 0:56:58.480
<v Speaker 2>keep your nose and your eyes quite warm, believe it

0:56:58.560 --> 0:57:00.640
<v Speaker 2>or not. But when that's exposed to the water as well,

0:57:00.680 --> 0:57:04.319
<v Speaker 2>and it's your whole head, the sting is just unbearable.

0:57:04.400 --> 0:57:06.080
<v Speaker 2>So you're doing it with your eyes shut. Not that

0:57:06.120 --> 0:57:07.719
<v Speaker 2>you need your eyes, but it just makes it a

0:57:07.719 --> 0:57:11.040
<v Speaker 2>lot comfier. Yeah, they give your mass back. You've got

0:57:11.080 --> 0:57:13.600
<v Speaker 2>to put that back on. Keep going, And we get

0:57:13.640 --> 0:57:14.799
<v Speaker 2>to the end of the shift and they bring us

0:57:14.840 --> 0:57:17.280
<v Speaker 2>all up. None of us have completed it, so we

0:57:17.400 --> 0:57:20.280
<v Speaker 2>come up. The sergeant goes, right, you've all failed. Have

0:57:20.320 --> 0:57:21.720
<v Speaker 2>a good heart. Think about what you want to do.

0:57:21.880 --> 0:57:24.320
<v Speaker 2>And why you want to be here. Go have a

0:57:24.360 --> 0:57:27.640
<v Speaker 2>shower and go home, be back in the morning. So

0:57:27.680 --> 0:57:30.360
<v Speaker 2>I go have a shower, and I just I could

0:57:29.920 --> 0:57:32.520
<v Speaker 2>not I could not believe how cold I was. It

0:57:32.560 --> 0:57:35.160
<v Speaker 2>was just down to my bones. And I actually went

0:57:35.160 --> 0:57:36.880
<v Speaker 2>into the shower turn the hot water on, and the

0:57:36.880 --> 0:57:39.000
<v Speaker 2>hot water hit me and I just completely blacked out,

0:57:39.600 --> 0:57:41.280
<v Speaker 2>woke up on the shower floor all of a sudden,

0:57:41.320 --> 0:57:44.640
<v Speaker 2>and you know, having some understanding of the physiology now

0:57:44.680 --> 0:57:47.480
<v Speaker 2>of hyperthermia, I knew that, yeah, I was in severe

0:57:47.560 --> 0:57:49.600
<v Speaker 2>hyperthermia and my body had just shut down with that

0:57:49.680 --> 0:57:54.520
<v Speaker 2>heat heat exchange. So I went home, came back. They

0:57:54.640 --> 0:57:57.960
<v Speaker 2>subsequently go, right, you've got another chance, go down, and

0:57:57.960 --> 0:58:00.040
<v Speaker 2>we want you to hurry up and get this done.

0:58:00.240 --> 0:58:02.200
<v Speaker 2>And they all disappear off to the side, and I

0:58:02.200 --> 0:58:04.240
<v Speaker 2>still remember one of the one of the team mates

0:58:04.960 --> 0:58:07.280
<v Speaker 2>came up and said, right, boys, everyone come in, and

0:58:07.320 --> 0:58:09.520
<v Speaker 2>he'd gone past a hardware store on the way and

0:58:09.560 --> 0:58:11.360
<v Speaker 2>pulled out a couple of new hacks or blades out

0:58:11.400 --> 0:58:13.240
<v Speaker 2>from his wetsuit and gave it all to us, said

0:58:13.280 --> 0:58:15.040
<v Speaker 2>get these India, and then hopefully you'll be able to

0:58:15.040 --> 0:58:16.600
<v Speaker 2>cut a bit quicker when you go back in, so

0:58:17.440 --> 0:58:20.000
<v Speaker 2>went back down started cutting, and the new blade definitely helped.

0:58:20.000 --> 0:58:22.200
<v Speaker 2>We'll go in like a bad out of hell. And

0:58:22.240 --> 0:58:23.840
<v Speaker 2>I got to about the I think it was a

0:58:23.880 --> 0:58:25.800
<v Speaker 2>six and a half seven hour mark, whatever it was,

0:58:25.840 --> 0:58:28.920
<v Speaker 2>and I'd finished, came up to the top as proud

0:58:28.920 --> 0:58:30.640
<v Speaker 2>as punches his piece of metal. I looked at the

0:58:30.680 --> 0:58:33.960
<v Speaker 2>sergeants said I got it, and he goes, yeah, one

0:58:34.000 --> 0:58:35.880
<v Speaker 2>side looks a little bit too thick, though, mate, So

0:58:36.400 --> 0:58:38.480
<v Speaker 2>go down and get me another one, and I just

0:58:38.560 --> 0:58:41.640
<v Speaker 2>nearly died. Everything just stopped and I was like, are

0:58:41.680 --> 0:58:45.120
<v Speaker 2>you bloody kidding me? So I went down and I

0:58:45.200 --> 0:58:47.680
<v Speaker 2>reckon I was putting ten percent of the effort in

0:58:47.720 --> 0:58:50.280
<v Speaker 2>that I was doing beforehand to get another piece now.

0:58:50.920 --> 0:58:52.600
<v Speaker 2>And it was only about ten or fifteen minutes later

0:58:52.640 --> 0:58:56.840
<v Speaker 2>that other stuff member came down, got my attention, took

0:58:56.840 --> 0:58:59.480
<v Speaker 2>me over to where the others were we're cutting. There

0:58:59.520 --> 0:59:02.560
<v Speaker 2>was four of us left at this stage, and went

0:59:02.600 --> 0:59:04.320
<v Speaker 2>past the two bays where I thought there was two

0:59:04.360 --> 0:59:06.840
<v Speaker 2>other candidates and they weren't there anymore. But on the

0:59:06.920 --> 0:59:10.240
<v Speaker 2>last candidate. They were all gathered around this last guy

0:59:10.320 --> 0:59:14.400
<v Speaker 2>cutting and the staff member basically communicated to us with

0:59:14.400 --> 0:59:17.400
<v Speaker 2>hand signals right, everyone's to help out. You need to

0:59:17.400 --> 0:59:19.600
<v Speaker 2>get this guy done, and then and then it's and

0:59:19.600 --> 0:59:21.680
<v Speaker 2>then it's done for the done for the session, and

0:59:21.720 --> 0:59:23.440
<v Speaker 2>it was like, oh sweet. So we worked out this

0:59:23.520 --> 0:59:27.080
<v Speaker 2>method of someone holding onto the axas someone pushing, someone pulling.

0:59:27.120 --> 0:59:29.800
<v Speaker 2>We did two minute rotations and before you knew it,

0:59:29.840 --> 0:59:33.040
<v Speaker 2>we'd finished his cutoff, got all up. We're as proud

0:59:33.040 --> 0:59:35.960
<v Speaker 2>as punch. Handed these pieces of metals to the to

0:59:36.000 --> 0:59:39.800
<v Speaker 2>the staff and it's it's actually one of the things

0:59:39.840 --> 0:59:42.520
<v Speaker 2>that at the end of the course we get handed

0:59:42.560 --> 0:59:44.120
<v Speaker 2>back to us, so you think it's done and dusted.

0:59:44.160 --> 0:59:45.600
<v Speaker 2>You're never going to see that piece of metal again.

0:59:45.640 --> 0:59:47.760
<v Speaker 2>And that's that was like, No, that thing I spent

0:59:47.840 --> 0:59:50.720
<v Speaker 2>eight cold hours on, Like that thing's fucking priceless to me.

0:59:51.560 --> 0:59:53.560
<v Speaker 2>But they actually put on a park and that's your

0:59:53.800 --> 0:59:56.840
<v Speaker 2>graduation sort of award night, which is still hanging up

0:59:56.840 --> 1:00:00.200
<v Speaker 2>on my office now, and it's a good memory of

1:00:00.800 --> 1:00:02.760
<v Speaker 2>what you can do and what you push yourself to do.

1:00:03.520 --> 1:00:06.479
<v Speaker 2>And there was a job that I actually got as

1:00:06.560 --> 1:00:09.920
<v Speaker 2>cold as that day and I remember thinking I've done

1:00:09.920 --> 1:00:12.000
<v Speaker 2>this before for eight hours, like I'm going to do

1:00:12.040 --> 1:00:14.960
<v Speaker 2>this for forty five minutes to an hour max, I

1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:17.000
<v Speaker 2>can do it for seven more. I'm sweet. This is good,

1:00:17.080 --> 1:00:19.720
<v Speaker 2>and that's why we do it. It's a perfect example

1:00:19.760 --> 1:00:20.480
<v Speaker 2>of why we do that.

1:00:21.360 --> 1:00:23.400
<v Speaker 1>I think any course that you do, if you have

1:00:23.520 --> 1:00:27.240
<v Speaker 1>those challenges, it makes it more worthwhile. And I can

1:00:27.280 --> 1:00:31.440
<v Speaker 1>certainly understand why they've got to put your through your

1:00:31.440 --> 1:00:33.680
<v Speaker 1>paces in that manner. They're going to see that you've

1:00:33.680 --> 1:00:36.000
<v Speaker 1>got a degree of resilience and you're going to hang

1:00:36.040 --> 1:00:38.240
<v Speaker 1>in there because a lot of the tasks that you

1:00:38.320 --> 1:00:45.680
<v Speaker 1>get to do as a diver are pretty difficult. Yeah, definitely,

1:00:45.880 --> 1:00:47.840
<v Speaker 1>I think, and this is why it's interesting having a

1:00:47.960 --> 1:00:50.320
<v Speaker 1>chat and then part two we're just going to deep

1:00:50.400 --> 1:00:53.640
<v Speaker 1>dive into the jobs that you've done because the majority

1:00:53.720 --> 1:00:57.360
<v Speaker 1>of people, including police like I never overthink what's going

1:00:57.400 --> 1:00:59.560
<v Speaker 1>on under the water. When I'd be the crime scene

1:00:59.560 --> 1:01:03.480
<v Speaker 1>and gave can you search search that creek? We see,

1:01:03.640 --> 1:01:06.920
<v Speaker 1>we see you dude roll up at the crime scenes.

1:01:06.960 --> 1:01:09.080
<v Speaker 1>The public see you in the media. They always get

1:01:09.080 --> 1:01:11.960
<v Speaker 1>shots of divers searching for a body or searching for

1:01:12.080 --> 1:01:14.800
<v Speaker 1>a weapon, that that type of thing. But what goes

1:01:15.080 --> 1:01:19.680
<v Speaker 1>on under there? And I just I said to you

1:01:19.720 --> 1:01:22.280
<v Speaker 1>this the other day when we're talking. I was blowing

1:01:22.280 --> 1:01:24.000
<v Speaker 1>away when I was talking to a diver at the

1:01:24.040 --> 1:01:28.120
<v Speaker 1>scene and I thought, you know, crawling around bottom of

1:01:28.840 --> 1:01:32.360
<v Speaker 1>a river in the ocean or whatever, around the murky depth,

1:01:33.040 --> 1:01:35.440
<v Speaker 1>no vision. I would have thought you'd have gloves on

1:01:35.480 --> 1:01:37.800
<v Speaker 1>because Aniel might come out and bite your fingers off,

1:01:37.880 --> 1:01:41.600
<v Speaker 1>or you might grab something sharp. And I know we

1:01:41.760 --> 1:01:44.960
<v Speaker 1>do it all with our hands. You need, you need

1:01:44.960 --> 1:01:47.640
<v Speaker 1>the touch to feel what you're looking for, and that

1:01:47.760 --> 1:01:52.080
<v Speaker 1>touch often I'll get you to talk about some of

1:01:52.120 --> 1:01:54.840
<v Speaker 1>the experiences that you've had in part two. But you're

1:01:54.840 --> 1:01:59.480
<v Speaker 1>looking for a body, and yeah, in the pitch black underwater.

1:01:59.800 --> 1:02:02.360
<v Speaker 1>Not I mentioned all the other creepy stuff that might

1:02:02.640 --> 1:02:05.280
<v Speaker 1>get you in the water. You're looking for a body,

1:02:05.320 --> 1:02:07.280
<v Speaker 1>and your success is if you get your hand on

1:02:07.440 --> 1:02:10.080
<v Speaker 1>a body that's been submerged in the water for god

1:02:10.160 --> 1:02:12.560
<v Speaker 1>knows how long, or a skeletal remain you just ain't know.

1:02:13.120 --> 1:02:14.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely and I and I said to you the

1:02:14.640 --> 1:02:18.680
<v Speaker 2>other day, mate, it's I think if anyone from the

1:02:18.720 --> 1:02:22.200
<v Speaker 2>same same style of work ever says that, Oh yeah,

1:02:22.200 --> 1:02:24.640
<v Speaker 2>And I started handling it better as I got into

1:02:24.640 --> 1:02:26.320
<v Speaker 2>the job and it was less scary. I think they're

1:02:26.360 --> 1:02:29.040
<v Speaker 2>full of shit. The last body that I ever had

1:02:29.200 --> 1:02:31.280
<v Speaker 2>for eight years of the dive squad. Compared to the

1:02:31.280 --> 1:02:33.320
<v Speaker 2>first one, I was shitting myself just as much.

1:02:33.600 --> 1:02:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:02:34.120 --> 1:02:36.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's nothing that I think you're ever going to

1:02:36.360 --> 1:02:39.000
<v Speaker 2>is going to prepare you for that. It's about the

1:02:39.400 --> 1:02:41.960
<v Speaker 2>professionalism leading up to it and then what you do

1:02:42.040 --> 1:02:44.640
<v Speaker 2>after it as well. But that moment of that touch

1:02:44.680 --> 1:02:47.520
<v Speaker 2>and grabbing onto that body, it never leaves you, that's

1:02:47.560 --> 1:02:47.880
<v Speaker 2>for sure.

1:02:48.080 --> 1:02:51.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, I can feel my heart beating quicker just

1:02:51.760 --> 1:02:54.320
<v Speaker 1>the thought of it in pitch black, in the water, cold,

1:02:54.400 --> 1:02:58.960
<v Speaker 1>uncomfortable and creeping around on the bottom of a river

1:02:59.040 --> 1:03:01.720
<v Speaker 1>looking for a am looking for a body part.

1:03:02.240 --> 1:03:02.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:03:02.760 --> 1:03:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, we're going to ask you a lot in

1:03:04.840 --> 1:03:08.040
<v Speaker 1>part two, the scariest jobs you've had, the most difficult,

1:03:08.080 --> 1:03:11.240
<v Speaker 1>the most rewarding. We're going to talk about the emotional

1:03:11.320 --> 1:03:14.560
<v Speaker 1>toll it takes, because I think you touched on it there.

1:03:14.560 --> 1:03:17.840
<v Speaker 1>We've got to be realistic, like you're the type of

1:03:17.840 --> 1:03:20.000
<v Speaker 1>work you get called in when something bad has happened.

1:03:20.000 --> 1:03:22.560
<v Speaker 1>You're not been called in for something good. Maybe you've

1:03:22.560 --> 1:03:26.680
<v Speaker 1>had some success where you've helped someone, but invariably it's

1:03:26.720 --> 1:03:29.080
<v Speaker 1>a tragedy that's occurred, and that's where you guys, get

1:03:29.440 --> 1:03:32.040
<v Speaker 1>get called into it, and I'm going to ask you

1:03:32.080 --> 1:03:34.240
<v Speaker 1>about sharks, because we've been talking for an hour and

1:03:34.280 --> 1:03:36.640
<v Speaker 1>you haven't mentioned sharks. And I think if I was

1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:38.680
<v Speaker 1>going to sign up for police divers, that would be

1:03:38.720 --> 1:03:42.400
<v Speaker 1>at the forefront of my thoughts. So we'll have a

1:03:42.440 --> 1:03:43.800
<v Speaker 1>break and we'll be back for part two.

1:03:44.160 --> 1:03:45.160
<v Speaker 2>Awesome, Thanks Garrett.

1:03:45.480 --> 1:03:45.760
<v Speaker 1>Cheers,