WEBVTT - Schoolboy heroin addict: Nick Midgley Pt.1

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<v Speaker 1>The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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<v Speaker 2>Detective sy aside of life.

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<v Speaker 1>The average person is never exposed her I spent thirty

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<v Speaker 1>four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years,

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<v Speaker 1>I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living.

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<v Speaker 1>I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing

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<v Speaker 1>bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world

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<v Speaker 1>in which I operated. The guests I talk to each

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<v Speaker 1>week have amazing stories from all sides of the law.

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<v Speaker 1>The interviews are raw and honest, just like the people

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<v Speaker 1>I talk to. Some of the content and language might

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<v Speaker 1>be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact

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<v Speaker 1>with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I

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<v Speaker 1>take you into this world. Welcome to another episode of

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<v Speaker 1>I Catch Killers. Today's guest was addicted to heroin for

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<v Speaker 1>twenty two years. He didn't like himself, and he hurt

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<v Speaker 1>people close to him. The person he is now is

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<v Speaker 1>so far removed from that person is hardly recognizable today.

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<v Speaker 1>Our guest, Nick Midgley, is in the studio to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about crime, addiction, love, relationships, masculinity, tattoos, and recovery. Nick Midgley, Welcome,

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<v Speaker 1>to I catch killers.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you man, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, Nick, you're addicted to heroin for twenty two years.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a long time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a fair whack, man, it's a fair whack.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah yeah. How long you been cleaned for? Now?

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<v Speaker 2>About four and a half years, well clean and sober

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<v Speaker 2>four and a half. Yeah. Okay, So it's no alcohol,

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<v Speaker 2>no dressing at all anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And is that and we'll talk more about the

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<v Speaker 1>stuff you do with hope and health.

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<v Speaker 2>But is that part of it?

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<v Speaker 1>If you're going to kick one, you've got to kick

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<v Speaker 1>the other or you just fall into bad habits.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, I don't think it is necessarily for anyone. But

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<v Speaker 2>I believe that anyone that's got any sort of like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, history of you know, of trauma and using

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<v Speaker 2>any sort of vice is to sort of cover up

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<v Speaker 2>any you know, any undigested living experiences and stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think you can use anything to sort of

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<v Speaker 2>like block anything, you know. I think that some people

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<v Speaker 2>are just sort of running up for a little while.

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<v Speaker 2>It'll be too hard for a little while, and they

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<v Speaker 2>can sort of return to some sort of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>social drinking or social you know, you know, social stuff, but.

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<v Speaker 1>I suppose it's in eight in you if you've got

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<v Speaker 1>that addictive personality or you're relying on it. I've seen

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<v Speaker 1>people not through work. People I know that we're addicted

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<v Speaker 1>to drugs. They kick that, but then they become alcoholics. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that becomes their crutch. Or I've seen others that go

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<v Speaker 1>from drugs and then find religion.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely. Look I mean with me, like

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think I've ever had so much of an

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<v Speaker 2>alcohol problem, and it's something that sort of doesn't really

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<v Speaker 2>sort of like you know, you know that they don't

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<v Speaker 2>really enjoy that much, you know, you know, but like

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<v Speaker 2>I just can't guarantee my behavior on the alcohol, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like I do. I do some stupid stuff that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like I act out of alignment to my values, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Like you know, I've had a history of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>cheating on my partners and you know, all gambling and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, just just just doing stupid stuff that I

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<v Speaker 2>would never do sober, you know. So like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and also like you know, like I don't think there's

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<v Speaker 2>been any if or very rarely have I put a

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<v Speaker 2>needle in my you know, after a period of like

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<v Speaker 2>you know, substantial clean time about like you know, having

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<v Speaker 2>sort of alcohol or something something alcohol.

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<v Speaker 1>I see people that say, you know, alcohol is not

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<v Speaker 1>a problem, but every time their life stuffs up.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it starts with drinking. Starts with drinking.

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<v Speaker 1>And now I'm fine and you can speak, speak to

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<v Speaker 1>the person the way they conduct their life, the way

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<v Speaker 1>they go about their business perfect. Then they get on

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<v Speaker 1>the bender and the world turns upside down against that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah for sure. So I mean it's just that simple

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<v Speaker 2>for me. My life is so good now. Yeah, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not about to have a drink, but I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to risk it, you know, not over a beer, you

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<v Speaker 2>know few and if I ended up in the position

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<v Speaker 2>I was in four years ago, start drink, you know, to.

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<v Speaker 1>Start all over again. So tell our listeners who Nick

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<v Speaker 1>Midgeley is.

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<v Speaker 2>What's your what's your your.

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<v Speaker 1>Background and brief of your life, and then more.

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<v Speaker 2>Dissect It's pretty complete question. So who's it? Oh mate?

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<v Speaker 2>I look, I mean at a at a general level,

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<v Speaker 2>I was just a kid from Melbourne that sort of

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<v Speaker 2>you know that they grew up and gravitated the drugs

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<v Speaker 2>really quickly. And at the time I had no idea why,

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<v Speaker 2>because I seemed to have come from a decent family,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a decent, decent area and stuff. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>my dad was a good provider, you know, spent spend

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<v Speaker 2>times at good schools and you know, and and there

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<v Speaker 2>was no from an outside perspective, there's no no idea

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<v Speaker 2>why it happened, you know, and I sort of lived

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<v Speaker 2>in that sort of confusion, like I didn't really know why.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, later on from doing you know a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of work from on myself, you know, like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it turned out because of you know, my father was

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<v Speaker 2>essentially completely absent my whole life. And you know, my

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<v Speaker 2>mother had her own traumas. You know, she went from

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<v Speaker 2>a really maternal mother to a complete emotionally shut off mother.

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<v Speaker 2>And as a kid, you know, when when you have

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<v Speaker 2>an experience like that from you know, your maternal maternal parents,

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<v Speaker 2>when they just emotionally shut off from you, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it has a really you know, traumatic effect on you.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. And and so I mean I've got you know,

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<v Speaker 2>so I walked around essentially my teenage years with like

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<v Speaker 2>you know, all these abandonment and attachment wounds and stuff

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<v Speaker 2>like that, and you know, self medicated that stuff with

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<v Speaker 2>with with heavy drugs.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's how you got into it. Yeah, it's interesting

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<v Speaker 1>you say. And I've heard you in one of the

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<v Speaker 1>many talks that you've done, you talk about your mother's

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<v Speaker 1>trauma when she was a kid, and that into generational trauma,

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<v Speaker 1>how it carries through because you don't fully understand that,

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<v Speaker 1>so you can stand stand back and look back and yeah, right,

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<v Speaker 1>that's what it's about. But it's such formative years as

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<v Speaker 1>a child.

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<v Speaker 2>And if if you.

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<v Speaker 1>Said your dad, dad was absent but providing, and then

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<v Speaker 1>your mum shut down emotionally, it can can play with

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<v Speaker 1>a kid's mind.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah he can. It definitely does. It definitely does, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's on a real deep level. And that's the that's

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<v Speaker 2>the thing that that I'm glad that I know that

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<v Speaker 2>I've got to go through it as well, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>because my oldest son will also have similar stuff, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>with me raising him on my own and essentially having

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<v Speaker 2>to grow up with him, you know, and so he's

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<v Speaker 2>going to have similar stuff. He does have similar stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>a bit different, but like you know, like it's good,

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<v Speaker 2>it's good that I went through because now I can

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<v Speaker 2>understand it. I can help him through his process too,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It makes sense, and you clearly you look back at

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<v Speaker 1>your life and you're dissecting your life and it gives you.

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<v Speaker 1>It gives you an understanding that you don't necessarily see

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<v Speaker 1>when you're going through it, but and knowing the impact

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<v Speaker 1>that you can have on your job. Now, I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to ask you up front the tattoos, mate. What firstly,

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<v Speaker 1>when when did you when did you decide to cover

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<v Speaker 1>the body in tattoos?

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<v Speaker 2>Man, I've got my first tattoo at thirteen. It's something

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<v Speaker 2>that's always intrigued me. You know. I had a friend

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<v Speaker 2>of a friend's older brother drew some crap on us,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I do a lot of cover up work

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<v Speaker 2>and committed myself early and then you know, it just

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<v Speaker 2>got that stage where I just I reached out tipping

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<v Speaker 2>point where you know, I went over halfway and then

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<v Speaker 2>like everything else started to look naked, so I just

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<v Speaker 2>went went all out. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>It can become addictive, Yeah I think so, Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>think so.

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<v Speaker 2>But but all my stuff, like you know, almost us

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<v Speaker 2>my own you know, my own sort of like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>design stuff like my tattles is actually the hardest as well,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, so like I've give them an idea and

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<v Speaker 2>you draw it up for me and stuff like that,

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<v Speaker 2>so you know, it's not like a you know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>not like a stencil job that I went to Bali

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<v Speaker 2>and you know in two days that's sense of stuff

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<v Speaker 2>on me to everyone else has got to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's good advice. Let's get advice to anyone listening. Don't

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<v Speaker 2>get a tattoo. But it's not a good idea. You

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<v Speaker 2>might think it's cool, it's like coming back in a

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<v Speaker 2>big tea. Yeah for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure that's covered in tattoos Like that, people would react

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<v Speaker 1>to you differently, like you're a big, strong bloke. You're

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<v Speaker 1>covered in covered in tattoos, and I would imagine you

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<v Speaker 1>get and because it's a podcast, you got the neck tattoos,

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<v Speaker 1>the full sleeve tattoos. Do you get different reactions from

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<v Speaker 1>people or they assume you're a type of person?

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<v Speaker 2>Uh yeah, look, yeah I think I do. I think

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<v Speaker 2>I do sometimes, but like I generally, you know, it

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<v Speaker 2>generally doesn't bother me so much anymore. You know, I

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<v Speaker 2>used to really sort of take things personally the way

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<v Speaker 2>people would react to me, and you know, like I

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<v Speaker 2>walked around my whole child would assuming I was getting judged,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, whether I was, I wasn't. You know, I

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<v Speaker 2>lived in you know, I lived in fear of what

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<v Speaker 2>people thought of me. I need a validation from other people.

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<v Speaker 2>The reality is mane you know, like I you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like I mean, I liked tattoos. I work for myself,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't, you know, don't it's sort of met up

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<v Speaker 2>to anyone else's standards.

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<v Speaker 1>You're not working in the bank, all right, No, that's right,

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<v Speaker 1>that's right.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, is there a story to them? Yeah? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean yeah, you know, like it starts off with like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, all sort of you know, you can see

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<v Speaker 2>sort of like a criminal pass on my back and

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<v Speaker 2>stuff like that, and sort of now I sort of

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<v Speaker 2>merge into more of a spiritual thing. Okay. We all evolved. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's rights, right, we all evolved.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's talk about your your childhood. First up, where

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<v Speaker 1>did you grow up?

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<v Speaker 2>I grew up in Melbourne, as in the city of Melbourne.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and when you got into drugs early and I

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<v Speaker 1>think I heard that you were you were using heroin

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<v Speaker 1>at thirteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Or yeah, yeah, injecting, injecting, Yeah, yeah, you're still at school? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>explain how that it's mate. It's quite funny. Like, actually,

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<v Speaker 2>I I haven't been diagnosed with add or or anything,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, but I always struggled at school. And my

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<v Speaker 2>oldest got diagnosed with a d D. And when when

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<v Speaker 2>I took him to the pediatrician, he was rattling off

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<v Speaker 2>all the all the symptoms of a d D, and

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<v Speaker 2>they all resonated with me, every single one. I ever

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<v Speaker 2>really know what it was. I didn't know what it was,

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<v Speaker 2>and like, you know, and I'm not going to get

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<v Speaker 2>diagnosed now because like I've learned to live with it

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<v Speaker 2>and around it, and like, but you know, I struggled

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<v Speaker 2>to digest information school. Like I used to go to school.

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<v Speaker 2>I used to feel dumb because I couldn't I couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>really understand what was going on. Like I could read,

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<v Speaker 2>I just couldn't digest the information I was reading. Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I found Heroin, you know, it's like just

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<v Speaker 2>my mind just relaxed and I was able just to

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<v Speaker 2>like focus on what I was doing. Like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I I honestly thought that like I'd found the holy

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<v Speaker 2>Grail you know of like you know, of of of

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<v Speaker 2>of substance, and yeah, I thought, if I can use it,

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<v Speaker 2>because I thought people were like you know, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like you know, junkies were like you know, predisposition to

0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.480
<v Speaker 2>become junkies, and it came from like, you know, really

0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.080
<v Speaker 2>shitty backgrounds and stuff like which I didn't. I had

0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:16.079
<v Speaker 2>a bit of ego even back then, you know, And

0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:18.040
<v Speaker 2>and for a long time, I dabbled, like I didn't.

0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.120
<v Speaker 2>I didn't actually have a habit till I was, you know,

0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:24.360
<v Speaker 2>fifteen or sixteen. Like I dabbled, you know, I used

0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.960
<v Speaker 2>it regularly for you for quite a few years, you know,

0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.920
<v Speaker 2>and I was able to get like, you know, quite

0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:33.560
<v Speaker 2>a lot of school work done from from and you

0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:37.280
<v Speaker 2>could still function. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah mate. Most people

0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:42.400
<v Speaker 2>didn't know I was using until until about sixteen, you know,

0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.240
<v Speaker 2>like you know, my my, my mum and my dad

0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.319
<v Speaker 2>found out because I ran away from boarding school and

0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.040
<v Speaker 2>they went up there to grab my stuff and empty

0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.400
<v Speaker 2>my closets and stuff, and I found using paraphernalia in

0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:59.520
<v Speaker 2>there in my school blazer. You know. But like you know,

0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.960
<v Speaker 2>I think most people didn't know because I had just

0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.559
<v Speaker 2>so much shame around a lot. I didn't told people

0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.720
<v Speaker 2>and talk to people and stuff, so most people didn't

0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:10.200
<v Speaker 2>know that, you know, that that had any sort of

0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.400
<v Speaker 2>like you know, drug problem outside a bit of a

0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.800
<v Speaker 2>choof problem or something until I was about sixteen.

0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I'm interested in the mindset like you would have

0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.160
<v Speaker 1>even at that tender age, you would have heard the

0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.560
<v Speaker 1>warnings about hero and you know, you had one hit

0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.120
<v Speaker 1>and you're hooked and all that. I've spoken to a

0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.440
<v Speaker 1>lot of people that think, yeah, that's for the other guy.

0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:31.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm a bit different, I'm a bit special. I can

0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.800
<v Speaker 1>control it. Is that that the thought process you I.

0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Think, yeah, it was what I had. But actually, you know,

0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:39.240
<v Speaker 2>from now working with a lot of other people in

0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.840
<v Speaker 2>addiction to it's a really common thing, you know, like

0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:43.800
<v Speaker 2>it's you know, a lot of people, a lot of

0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:45.439
<v Speaker 2>people feel like that. A lot of people feel like,

0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, made the amount of times you've heard about

0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.760
<v Speaker 2>someone on a you know, on a Bucks party or

0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.040
<v Speaker 2>something like, you know, have a you know, someone brings

0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.440
<v Speaker 2>out a crack pipe and you know, and they have

0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:58.960
<v Speaker 2>a few, you know, a few puffs on a pipe

0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:00.760
<v Speaker 2>and mate, you know, you know, a year and a

0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.079
<v Speaker 2>half later, they've lost their families and stuff like that.

0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.240
<v Speaker 1>I've heard them say they're chasing that high again. Yeah,

0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.319
<v Speaker 1>so you for it, but you're chasing it and before

0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.120
<v Speaker 1>you realize that you are what you thought you never

0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:13.520
<v Speaker 1>would be.

0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that was a really scary because you know,

0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:18.600
<v Speaker 2>that was a really scary time for me. I think

0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.719
<v Speaker 2>I think I was about fifteen, you know, like you know,

0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.880
<v Speaker 2>when when I realized it got me. You know, like

0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:28.160
<v Speaker 2>I had this at this moment where a friend of mine.

0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:29.600
<v Speaker 2>I was talking to a friend of mine about like,

0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, not being asleep well and like, you know,

0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, I was feeling a bit nauseous lately and stuff,

0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, and he's going, mate, it's because you're hanging

0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.559
<v Speaker 2>out like that's that's that's a smack it's got you know.

0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.920
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh fuck, yeah, right, Okay, maybe I've

0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:45.839
<v Speaker 2>been pushing a bit hard. So in my head I thought,

0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'll just stop, you know, and then when

0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.400
<v Speaker 2>I actually tried, I just couldn't.

0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.480
<v Speaker 1>So virtually, and there's a cautionary tale the people that

0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:00.040
<v Speaker 1>go down that path. You think you're not addicted. I

0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:01.800
<v Speaker 1>think you can step away. It's just a matter of

0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm choosing not to at this stage. But then before

0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:06.200
<v Speaker 1>you realize that you're addicted.

0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's that choice. Yeah, And then you actually you

0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.719
<v Speaker 2>actually try, then you realize, like it's got a it's

0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.000
<v Speaker 2>got a I mean, Heroin's got the physical pool. It's

0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.680
<v Speaker 2>got obviously the physical withdrawals as well, but it's also

0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.360
<v Speaker 2>a mental pool as well. And the second the second

0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.800
<v Speaker 2>the mental pool. The mental pool triggers the physical pool,

0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:25.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, so like you know, if you think about it,

0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:27.560
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, your body starts to crave it

0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:28.840
<v Speaker 2>and withdraw from it. You know.

0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.240
<v Speaker 1>So breaking that down, you're saying, saying that mental drive

0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.840
<v Speaker 1>to to have a hit, Yeah, then you're physically reacting

0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 1>it because it's in your mind.

0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:42.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, for example, though, it took me like two

0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.360
<v Speaker 2>three years from my first shot to develop a habit. Now,

0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:48.480
<v Speaker 2>if I have a couple of patatine for it, or

0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:50.200
<v Speaker 2>anything with a bit of opiates in it, like my

0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.480
<v Speaker 2>receptors just go crazy and I start like, you know,

0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.400
<v Speaker 2>we're drawing straight away, you know, like you know, like

0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't take any opiates because like it's you know,

0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:04.080
<v Speaker 2>like of my name, my you know, all my receptors

0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.040
<v Speaker 2>are so sensitive to that stuff now, so I'll just

0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:07.000
<v Speaker 2>stay away from it. All.

0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, how did you afford it at that age?

0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean I because I had a school uniform.

0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:14.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean in a few different ways, they had a

0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.000
<v Speaker 2>school uniform. So someone that was moving quite a bit

0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.560
<v Speaker 2>to all the you know, all the crack houses back then,

0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, there's a gap week the Hollywood, the Regal,

0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 2>the beach house and stuff that was just sort of

0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.720
<v Speaker 2>all around some kilder and stuff like that. And that'd

0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:30.080
<v Speaker 2>just get me to move a little bit because I

0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.760
<v Speaker 2>had a school uniform, none whatever suspecting, you know. And

0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.120
<v Speaker 2>and and so I did a little bit of that

0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.560
<v Speaker 2>sometimes on weekends, you know when when when when the

0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.080
<v Speaker 2>working girls were getting getting pulled up and robbed and

0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:42.760
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that, you know, the whole money for them

0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:46.040
<v Speaker 2>for just a little rock here and there. You know,

0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, when I when I was under eighteen, like

0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.000
<v Speaker 2>I used to do a lot of crime, used to

0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.040
<v Speaker 2>do a lot of breaking enders and stuff like that.

0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:58.040
<v Speaker 2>And but yeah, look you know, but I was you know,

0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.680
<v Speaker 2>like you know, I did all my my crime pretty

0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.680
<v Speaker 2>much under eighteen, you know, because like I really, you know,

0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:07.760
<v Speaker 2>I was so fun I was so fearful of that

0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:09.920
<v Speaker 2>that life, like I was in it because I had

0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.440
<v Speaker 2>a habit. But like I was so fucking terrified the

0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.200
<v Speaker 2>whole time I was. I was using at that age

0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.680
<v Speaker 2>when I was when I was seventeen, I got taken

0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:19.960
<v Speaker 2>over to Sicily by a mentor. He showed me how

0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.280
<v Speaker 2>to work and taught me a couple of trades and

0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.280
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that. And I didn't necessarily get rid of

0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.440
<v Speaker 2>the drug problem, but like I was able to sort of,

0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, live live a live a life of a

0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.760
<v Speaker 2>working working man, and you know, and then drive down

0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.320
<v Speaker 2>to rich mendal footscrade, go get my drugs and come

0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:37.400
<v Speaker 2>back to you know.

0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.360
<v Speaker 1>Well it's a normal life and we'll go further into it.

0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:44.000
<v Speaker 1>But it was almost like you were a functioning heroin addict.

0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.200
<v Speaker 1>You were doing some work as you got older.

0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:49.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, as I was seventeen.

0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, before we leave your childhood, so you're a young fifteen,

0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.800
<v Speaker 1>sixteen or whatever. And when you said the working girl,

0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.560
<v Speaker 1>so sex workers and they were, you were holding some

0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:00.200
<v Speaker 1>stuff them.

0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:01.440
<v Speaker 2>You get a bit of it was holy money. I

0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.760
<v Speaker 2>was holding money for them and so they wouldn't get robbed.

0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:05.520
<v Speaker 2>And then they'd give me that, you know, when they

0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:07.240
<v Speaker 2>got on, they broke off a little rock for me

0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:09.520
<v Speaker 2>or something like that. You know, So I mean, it's

0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:11.960
<v Speaker 2>just stuff like that. Look, I mean, just like there's

0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:13.639
<v Speaker 2>a couple of things that just happened. Is you know

0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.359
<v Speaker 2>when I was a kid, you know, like you know,

0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.879
<v Speaker 2>like you didn't trust anyone. I remember, like you know,

0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:20.600
<v Speaker 2>when we used to do like breaking inns and stuff

0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:22.080
<v Speaker 2>like that. You know, one of us was sort of

0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.080
<v Speaker 2>like you know, you know, standing there, you know, stolen

0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:25.639
<v Speaker 2>car at the front, and every one would sort of

0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:27.760
<v Speaker 2>go in and you and grab what they want and

0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:29.719
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that. You know, but neither of you trusted

0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.480
<v Speaker 2>either of you. You know, Like I remember, like, you know,

0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.159
<v Speaker 2>if I used to go into the house, you know,

0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:37.520
<v Speaker 2>there was a wallet on the kitchen table, I'd grab

0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:39.200
<v Speaker 2>the cash and that would just be fair game for

0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:43.680
<v Speaker 2>me going in and stuff like that. And among fooves. No,

0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:45.920
<v Speaker 2>that's right, that's right. And I remember this one time,

0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, like a little coey, you know, I used

0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:49.679
<v Speaker 2>to do a lot of these with you know, like

0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:52.240
<v Speaker 2>we just didn't trust each other, and I felt something

0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:55.200
<v Speaker 2>was like fucking was off, you know, and we put

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.000
<v Speaker 2>up at seven eleven. Because back in the day, when

0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.679
<v Speaker 2>you get your prepaid credit, it's got can you go

0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:01.520
<v Speaker 2>in and get some credits and get on you know,

0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:03.840
<v Speaker 2>was like, yeah, I'll go in and just give me

0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:05.520
<v Speaker 2>the keys, you know, because I just assume that he's

0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:07.320
<v Speaker 2>going to drive off in the car all that stuff

0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:09.840
<v Speaker 2>and all stuff, and he's gone show me your pockets,

0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:11.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, so he like I knew he was going

0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:13.399
<v Speaker 2>to run off, and he knew I had stuff in

0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.280
<v Speaker 2>my pockets. You know. No, I just had this fucking

0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:20.399
<v Speaker 2>that was a big realization that just living a fucking

0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.760
<v Speaker 2>really lonely life where I didn't trust anyone around me.

0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Were you're still with your family, we're still living no none.

0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.959
<v Speaker 2>At that stage, my mom kicked me out I think

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.359
<v Speaker 2>at thirteen or fourteen, fourteen, I think, and my dad

0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:35.640
<v Speaker 2>at fifteen, you know when she she kicked me out

0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:37.280
<v Speaker 2>to my dad's and then my dad not long So

0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.760
<v Speaker 2>where were you putting your head down? Uh? Well, a

0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.360
<v Speaker 2>lot of time the mentor took me over to Sicily. Yeah,

0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, but I the stolen cars as well, just

0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.840
<v Speaker 2>just wherever, you know, or or just stay up all

0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.879
<v Speaker 2>night as well, you know, like just but yeah, you know,

0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.480
<v Speaker 2>there's always like there was always you know, like some

0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:58.920
<v Speaker 2>sort of little little halfway crack house I could stay

0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:01.200
<v Speaker 2>out too, and like, you know, he gives upon a

0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:02.800
<v Speaker 2>little bit of a rock, you know, through one of

0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:03.560
<v Speaker 2>your urns or whatever.

0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.280
<v Speaker 1>It's a pretty treacherous and dangerous world at that age,

0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.959
<v Speaker 1>like to be hanging around in those those environments.

0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's you know, the reason I was so scared

0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.040
<v Speaker 2>is because, like obviously because of my age, I was

0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.480
<v Speaker 2>really vulnerable. You know, I was really vulnerable because I mean,

0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, when you when you're around drugs like heroin

0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.000
<v Speaker 2>and back then is when when ice was first coming out,

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:27.560
<v Speaker 2>was coming out from the Indonesian they used to call

0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.240
<v Speaker 2>it shaboo and it was first coming out, and and

0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, when you when you're that age, you know,

0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.000
<v Speaker 2>you're really vulnerable. Man. These people are really fucking desperate,

0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:40.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, and like you know, and you know, I

0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:41.960
<v Speaker 2>mean when I when I was a bit old and

0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:43.600
<v Speaker 2>I'd go in and stuff like, I didn't have that

0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:45.720
<v Speaker 2>sort of same fear around it, like people then sort

0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:47.600
<v Speaker 2>of like stand over me. But people saw me coming

0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.040
<v Speaker 2>from a mile the way back then, you know, and

0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, just just you know, certain stuff happened.

0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:57.080
<v Speaker 1>Just just did anyone try and steer you in the

0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:00.320
<v Speaker 1>right direction that we'll talk about your mental before we

0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:06.000
<v Speaker 1>get on to get on to your mental anyone like family, relatives,

0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:09.720
<v Speaker 1>school teachers, anyone, just grab hold of you and go mate,

0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:10.600
<v Speaker 1>what are you doing?

0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.399
<v Speaker 2>Mate? No, I'm not really, I'm not not in the

0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:17.680
<v Speaker 2>way of like I mean, my parents were just lost me,

0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:19.480
<v Speaker 2>you know that. I mean that day, their own shit

0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:23.520
<v Speaker 2>going on there, their own separations, and they had all

0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.960
<v Speaker 2>their own stuff going on to I think they really

0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:28.960
<v Speaker 2>worried about my siblings as well. I think that sort

0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:32.960
<v Speaker 2>of the chalking up as a bit lost lost calls.

0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:37.320
<v Speaker 2>Let's just worry about what younger siblings, older brother, younger

0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:38.119
<v Speaker 2>younger sister.

0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:42.640
<v Speaker 1>So who's this mentor that took you over the sicily?

0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.240
<v Speaker 1>What was that relationship? He was a bit of antory

0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:46.639
<v Speaker 1>of someone that comes from Sicily.

0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's been a bit of a knock about around Melbourne. See,

0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.320
<v Speaker 2>you know back in the days when you know, when

0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:55.399
<v Speaker 2>when when you use smacking, no crim trusted you anymore.

0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.880
<v Speaker 2>So he sort of got like his run was over

0:20:57.960 --> 0:20:59.520
<v Speaker 2>so to speak when I met him, and he is

0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:04.880
<v Speaker 2>just you know, essentially since it became a user. But like, hey,

0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.679
<v Speaker 2>he thought school was really important and he knew that

0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:09.960
<v Speaker 2>I was doing it, and you knew that I was going. Okay,

0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:11.920
<v Speaker 2>that so you know, I met him when I was

0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.720
<v Speaker 2>about sixteen, you know, and he's going, mate, look I'm

0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:16.560
<v Speaker 2>going to go Sisly to get clean, you know, and

0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:18.720
<v Speaker 2>he's gone, I want to take you. Let's just finish

0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.399
<v Speaker 2>the school had about six or seven months of school

0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.320
<v Speaker 2>left or something, and I said, when you finish your school,

0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:26.920
<v Speaker 2>we'll go overseas, you know, and I'll take you over there.

0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:28.800
<v Speaker 2>And he's gonna make you or you won't live till

0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:30.359
<v Speaker 2>you're twenty one if you live like this, you know.

0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.320
<v Speaker 2>And so, okay, I didn't actually think he was going

0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:36.040
<v Speaker 2>to do it, you know, like I know what was

0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:40.280
<v Speaker 2>in it for him? Nothing, just no, no, I mean look,

0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:41.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean he was one of the guys that used

0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:43.920
<v Speaker 2>to get me in a sort of run dope around

0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.240
<v Speaker 2>for maybe had a bit of a conscience, and you know,

0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:50.720
<v Speaker 2>he felt like, fuck, I've you know, I've. It didn't

0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.439
<v Speaker 2>start me on the year, but my habit certainly fucking

0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:55.440
<v Speaker 2>went right up because of what I was doing for him.

0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:57.120
<v Speaker 2>And you know, the guy that he was working with,

0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:57.600
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:01.359
<v Speaker 1>So and so he was he was addicted to and

0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:03.199
<v Speaker 1>he wanted to go clean himself up.

0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:03.760
<v Speaker 2>But go back.

0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:06.960
<v Speaker 1>I assume he's from there originally or yeah, family over there.

0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.440
<v Speaker 1>So he said you finished school, yeah, and then I'll

0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:13.359
<v Speaker 1>take you over the sicily Yeah and okay, tell us

0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:13.920
<v Speaker 1>about that.

0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.400
<v Speaker 2>That experience that was that was an incredible experience. Man,

0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:22.160
<v Speaker 2>that was incredible. That's I mean, I learned they got

0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:24.240
<v Speaker 2>such a big they've got such a hard work ethic

0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:26.640
<v Speaker 2>over there. Like when when I when I first went

0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.280
<v Speaker 2>over there, like he was a really hard man. You know,

0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:31.880
<v Speaker 2>he was a really hard man. And when I first

0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:33.800
<v Speaker 2>went over there, I really struggled because you were so

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.359
<v Speaker 2>hard on me, and like you know, I was so

0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:40.280
<v Speaker 2>like you know, emotionally mentally weak. Then you know, like

0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:42.320
<v Speaker 2>a day's hard work for me, it seemed like a

0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:44.800
<v Speaker 2>fucking death sentence. You know what type of work we

0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:48.760
<v Speaker 2>do mainly farm work or like you know, I worked

0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:50.920
<v Speaker 2>as a as a labor and a steel factory and

0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:54.600
<v Speaker 2>stuff like you know, and but like the are the

0:22:54.720 --> 0:23:00.000
<v Speaker 2>long days, man, like like you know, worked very hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.760
<v Speaker 2>especially especially on the farms. You know. You you you

0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:05.800
<v Speaker 2>arrive on on site or on the farm, you know,

0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:08.800
<v Speaker 2>just before the sun's comes up and the second it's

0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:11.440
<v Speaker 2>light enough to be able to see, you start working

0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:13.720
<v Speaker 2>and you work until you can't see what you're doing anymore.

0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:13.960
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:16.960
<v Speaker 1>Did that you get off the drugs when you were

0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:17.400
<v Speaker 1>over there?

0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:21.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, Look, I mean I still drunk. I had

0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:23.199
<v Speaker 2>the occasional bit of coke and stuff like that, you know,

0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:25.800
<v Speaker 2>but you know, like I was so so broke, you know,

0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:28.159
<v Speaker 2>like you know, like if I if I got on

0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:30.240
<v Speaker 2>the cozonly because someone that had it would give me

0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:33.199
<v Speaker 2>a couple of lines or something. You know, Like I

0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.200
<v Speaker 2>was earning about like you know, one hundred year old

0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:38.119
<v Speaker 2>a week, you know, when I was seventeen, it is

0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:40.440
<v Speaker 2>about what equivalent of one hundred and fifty bucks a week,

0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:42.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, and I work in my ass off too,

0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:44.840
<v Speaker 2>like you know, so that was like the apprentice wage

0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:45.200
<v Speaker 2>back then.

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:48.879
<v Speaker 1>And there's a did you did your family worry about you?

0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Or did you have anyone back here going?

0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:54.720
<v Speaker 2>It was a one way ticket, yeah, because my dad

0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:56.520
<v Speaker 2>paid for the ticket. He gave me a one way

0:23:56.560 --> 0:23:58.800
<v Speaker 2>ticket and that's no shit. And when I actually wanted

0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:00.720
<v Speaker 2>to come back, he didn't let me. Easy, mate, You

0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:02.760
<v Speaker 2>can come back when you when you earn it, you know,

0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:04.520
<v Speaker 2>as okay, yeah, you.

0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:06.520
<v Speaker 1>Know, And how long did you spend over there?

0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:10.520
<v Speaker 2>Three years in total? Yeeah, Yeah, yeah it was. It

0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:12.119
<v Speaker 2>was on and off a bit. I came back a

0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:14.400
<v Speaker 2>couple of times and relapse and quickly went back over

0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:17.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, like I just yeah, you know, and then

0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:18.960
<v Speaker 2>it just got those stage where you know, I thought

0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:21.920
<v Speaker 2>I might live here because like you know, I just

0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:23.239
<v Speaker 2>just couldn't do Melbourne, you know.

0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:27.840
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, when Okay, so how old you have?

0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:28.639
<v Speaker 2>Three years?

0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:32.280
<v Speaker 1>Seventeen you're looking twenty twenty one. Yeah, you've come back here,

0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:33.520
<v Speaker 1>so straight back to Melbourne?

0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:36.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeahs, I went straight back to Melbourne. I think I

0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:39.040
<v Speaker 2>think it lasted a few months before I got back

0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:42.240
<v Speaker 2>on it. And then when I was can I I

0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:42.880
<v Speaker 2>stop you there?

0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:46.320
<v Speaker 1>Nick, Just tell me the mindset there, like you've gone

0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:49.280
<v Speaker 1>to all the trouble of going overseas to tidy tidy

0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:52.120
<v Speaker 1>year ACKed up? Yeap, you've come back and you've yeah,

0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:55.040
<v Speaker 1>you lasted for a couple of months. Were you lying

0:24:55.080 --> 0:24:57.760
<v Speaker 1>to yourself for deluding yourself and just going ah, I'll

0:24:57.800 --> 0:24:58.720
<v Speaker 1>just have a taste.

0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:01.159
<v Speaker 2>And I'll be right. What was nah? I think I

0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:03.840
<v Speaker 2>think every every time I came back from sicily, i'd

0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:06.040
<v Speaker 2>come back with the intention not to ever use again,

0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:07.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, And I feel really strong when I was

0:25:07.680 --> 0:25:13.520
<v Speaker 2>over there. But Melbourne, Melbourne itself is for me, it's

0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:15.760
<v Speaker 2>a really dangerous city for me to be in, you know,

0:25:16.119 --> 0:25:20.280
<v Speaker 2>like a a I've like I've had a shot and

0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:25.040
<v Speaker 2>like every you know, every toil in the city streets. Yeah,

0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:26.960
<v Speaker 2>I know the streets. I know all the areas. I

0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:30.159
<v Speaker 2>know who to look for, like and the thing is

0:25:30.200 --> 0:25:32.200
<v Speaker 2>for me to get on now up where I live,

0:25:32.280 --> 0:25:34.600
<v Speaker 2>you know. I mean there's all the stuff. It's heroin

0:25:34.600 --> 0:25:36.119
<v Speaker 2>as Ayes is all that stuff there. But for me

0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:38.880
<v Speaker 2>to go get on up there, I would have to

0:25:38.920 --> 0:25:42.280
<v Speaker 2>call up a few people and to find out who's

0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:44.199
<v Speaker 2>not doing too well, chase it down or you know,

0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:46.960
<v Speaker 2>go go like you know, bump into a couple of

0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:49.200
<v Speaker 2>sort of like rough looking people and you know, try

0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:51.199
<v Speaker 2>to sort of wheezer my way in a bit and stuff.

0:25:51.480 --> 0:25:53.760
<v Speaker 2>Whereas in Melbourne, I'll get one bad thought, I know

0:25:53.840 --> 0:25:55.840
<v Speaker 2>exactly where to go, and I'm going to get on quick,

0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:58.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, and so like you know, there's there's not

0:25:58.160 --> 0:26:00.439
<v Speaker 2>much of it. Yeah, there's not much buffets. You know,

0:26:00.480 --> 0:26:03.479
<v Speaker 2>if I ever thought of using now, the process of

0:26:03.520 --> 0:26:06.440
<v Speaker 2>actually getting on on is big enough for me now

0:26:06.880 --> 0:26:10.159
<v Speaker 2>for some bit of sense to to slip into a

0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:11.240
<v Speaker 2>little gap and just go.

0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:15.720
<v Speaker 1>I understand what you're saying, Like, if it's there readily accessible, Yeah,

0:26:15.760 --> 0:26:17.959
<v Speaker 1>it's easy. You could just have this thought in your

0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:21.400
<v Speaker 1>head and you're on it straight away. The environment you're

0:26:21.400 --> 0:26:25.560
<v Speaker 1>in now, it's not not that simple. So how long

0:26:25.600 --> 0:26:26.560
<v Speaker 1>did you say? In Melbourne?

0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:30.040
<v Speaker 2>For? Not long? Not long? I and I get myself

0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:34.840
<v Speaker 2>in a bit of trouble. What was that about? Between

0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:36.919
<v Speaker 2>between them? I made of mind and me. You know,

0:26:36.960 --> 0:26:39.200
<v Speaker 2>we went this idea that you know, it's a little

0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:41.199
<v Speaker 2>bit of coke and a bit of psychosis. You know,

0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:44.240
<v Speaker 2>we flushed it and you know, and we owed a

0:26:44.240 --> 0:26:47.160
<v Speaker 2>bit of money. We had, we had money coming in,

0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:50.640
<v Speaker 2>but it was a while away and I just needed

0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:51.920
<v Speaker 2>to get away for a bit, you know.

0:26:52.280 --> 0:26:54.840
<v Speaker 1>Talk us, talk us through that, because I think, so

0:26:55.200 --> 0:26:57.639
<v Speaker 1>you're using and then all of a sudden you're becoming

0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:00.879
<v Speaker 1>paranoid or yeah whatever, and you've flushed. You're thinking the

0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:02.120
<v Speaker 1>cops are coming through the door.

0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, may I was. I was never going to be

0:27:04.520 --> 0:27:07.040
<v Speaker 2>a successful drug dealer because of moment, you know, because

0:27:07.040 --> 0:27:09.359
<v Speaker 2>I use I used drugs too heavily, you know, and

0:27:09.400 --> 0:27:12.200
<v Speaker 2>so maybe if I've got if I've got a fucking

0:27:12.440 --> 0:27:14.720
<v Speaker 2>bunch of coke. You know, I'm not just gonna sit

0:27:14.800 --> 0:27:17.080
<v Speaker 2>there and wait for people to buy, like I'll be

0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:19.680
<v Speaker 2>using it while before they come.

0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:24.320
<v Speaker 1>So when you flushed that, you're obviously going you've got some.

0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:26.639
<v Speaker 1>You got it on tick and you add the money

0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:28.480
<v Speaker 1>back to the people you got it from, but you

0:27:28.760 --> 0:27:30.000
<v Speaker 1>ain't got the drugs anymore.

0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:32.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, well you had money owed to me too.

0:27:33.880 --> 0:27:35.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that wasn't the only reason. I just I

0:27:35.720 --> 0:27:37.199
<v Speaker 2>had to I had to get out of town, just

0:27:37.240 --> 0:27:40.199
<v Speaker 2>because my whole life was just fucking falling apart, you know.

0:27:40.400 --> 0:27:42.680
<v Speaker 2>So I frond of the people I had the money to.

0:27:42.840 --> 0:27:45.360
<v Speaker 2>I said, look, I'm not going anywhere. I'm getting out

0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:47.520
<v Speaker 2>for a bit. I've got I've got this money coming in.

0:27:47.600 --> 0:27:49.960
<v Speaker 2>I just got to just just fucking trust me. And

0:27:50.920 --> 0:27:54.240
<v Speaker 2>and so, and I asked my mom, who kicked me out,

0:27:54.240 --> 0:27:56.159
<v Speaker 2>as I said before, as a teenager who moved to

0:27:56.200 --> 0:27:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Byron Bay, probably to get away from me, to be honest,

0:27:59.800 --> 0:28:03.160
<v Speaker 2>And I beg there, I said, Mom, I've just got

0:28:03.200 --> 0:28:06.280
<v Speaker 2>to get away from here, you know, like my life's

0:28:06.280 --> 0:28:10.480
<v Speaker 2>just fucking falling apart. And and she said that, you

0:28:10.480 --> 0:28:13.080
<v Speaker 2>know she's going, well, if you come up here, you

0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:15.480
<v Speaker 2>come up on the on you know, on the condition

0:28:15.600 --> 0:28:18.000
<v Speaker 2>that you enroll into this rehab up here, which is

0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:20.440
<v Speaker 2>the Buttery my dad like, and she's gone. They got

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:22.400
<v Speaker 2>like a six or seven month weightlist, so you got

0:28:22.400 --> 0:28:24.200
<v Speaker 2>to you gotta call before you come up to get

0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:26.120
<v Speaker 2>on the weight list, and then you've got to call

0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:29.239
<v Speaker 2>every week when you're on there. And and so I

0:28:29.280 --> 0:28:34.040
<v Speaker 2>called when I came up, and then yeah, I had

0:28:34.080 --> 0:28:37.239
<v Speaker 2>no intention to actually actually go there, you know, like

0:28:37.400 --> 0:28:40.440
<v Speaker 2>I just thought, mate, it's six seven months and a

0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:42.880
<v Speaker 2>time for for me to get my shit together where

0:28:42.920 --> 0:28:46.520
<v Speaker 2>I can come back, you know. For for whatever reason,

0:28:46.520 --> 0:28:48.280
<v Speaker 2>I always felt like I had to be back in Melbourne.

0:28:48.280 --> 0:28:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Like I didn't think I could actually break away from it.

0:28:51.080 --> 0:28:52.600
<v Speaker 2>I didn't think I could break away from it, you know.

0:28:52.640 --> 0:28:54.400
<v Speaker 2>I didn't think I wanted to either, you know, because

0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:56.960
<v Speaker 2>when I first came to Byron Bay, I didn't see

0:28:56.960 --> 0:28:58.680
<v Speaker 2>it as a beautiful place it is now. I saw

0:28:58.680 --> 0:29:01.080
<v Speaker 2>it was a really fucking boring place that like weird

0:29:01.080 --> 0:29:03.160
<v Speaker 2>people went and stuff. I was. It was my perception

0:29:03.200 --> 0:29:05.520
<v Speaker 2>of it because I was so I was so like,

0:29:05.760 --> 0:29:07.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, yeah, you know, in the city of Melbourne.

0:29:07.960 --> 0:29:10.480
<v Speaker 2>I was so like you know, like I MESSI into

0:29:10.520 --> 0:29:16.000
<v Speaker 2>that lifestyle and stuff and and mate, look, eventually I

0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:19.440
<v Speaker 2>stayed there long enough that made that that place. Something

0:29:19.480 --> 0:29:21.640
<v Speaker 2>happens in that place, man, Like you know, even today

0:29:21.680 --> 0:29:24.000
<v Speaker 2>it's it's not my little spiritual home. And every time

0:29:24.040 --> 0:29:25.800
<v Speaker 2>a lot sort of like apploads on me, I always

0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:29.080
<v Speaker 2>end up going back there. And Mate, just over time,

0:29:29.200 --> 0:29:31.680
<v Speaker 2>just over that like six month period made something shifted

0:29:31.720 --> 0:29:33.920
<v Speaker 2>him here, you know. And a friend of mine who

0:29:34.360 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 2>who I met up there, he ended up being a

0:29:36.640 --> 0:29:38.880
<v Speaker 2>training partner of mine, you know, and he went through

0:29:38.880 --> 0:29:41.440
<v Speaker 2>that buttery program, you know, and he stayed up there

0:29:41.480 --> 0:29:44.560
<v Speaker 2>after that. And he said, Mate, look, just won't you

0:29:44.640 --> 0:29:46.920
<v Speaker 2>just go for five weeks? You know? And if after

0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:50.320
<v Speaker 2>five yeah, but he's going in after five weeks. If

0:29:50.320 --> 0:29:52.000
<v Speaker 2>you don't want to go, you call me, I'll pick

0:29:52.040 --> 0:29:53.240
<v Speaker 2>you up. I'll take you the airport. You can go

0:29:53.280 --> 0:29:57.200
<v Speaker 2>back down in Melbourne. And Mate, I respected him enough

0:29:57.400 --> 0:30:00.560
<v Speaker 2>to you know, I thought, yeah, I can do five weeks,

0:30:00.600 --> 0:30:02.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, Like you know, I was clean, I was sober,

0:30:02.520 --> 0:30:04.160
<v Speaker 2>wasn't hanging out, so I thought, why not, you know,

0:30:05.280 --> 0:30:08.760
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I think he knew that I needed

0:30:08.760 --> 0:30:11.720
<v Speaker 2>five weeks there to be able to like to be

0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:14.120
<v Speaker 2>able to like, you know, make an informed decision, because

0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:15.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean I went there and I had people throwing

0:30:15.840 --> 0:30:19.280
<v Speaker 2>me under the bus but not doing my jobs, and like, yeah,

0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:20.640
<v Speaker 2>in my head, I thought I was just a bunch

0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:23.120
<v Speaker 2>of fucking dogs. You know, I fuck this, I'm not

0:30:23.240 --> 0:30:26.880
<v Speaker 2>staying here and just winges and like you know. But

0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:30.520
<v Speaker 2>like after five weeks, like you know, I had this

0:30:30.560 --> 0:30:32.840
<v Speaker 2>realization because I already had a son at that stage,

0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:35.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, I know my son was you know, three

0:30:35.280 --> 0:30:37.680
<v Speaker 2>or four years old. How old were you? I was

0:30:37.720 --> 0:30:40.000
<v Speaker 2>twenty when he was born, twenty one when he was born.

0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:41.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you got to kick with you with the

0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:44.000
<v Speaker 1>lady or no, no.

0:30:44.960 --> 0:30:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Were Yeah, look we're only lasted when when he was born,

0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:50.600
<v Speaker 2>like wh only lasted about a year year and a half.

0:30:50.680 --> 0:30:52.720
<v Speaker 2>And the only reason we have to probably go that

0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:55.600
<v Speaker 2>year and a half was because you know, she'd been

0:30:55.640 --> 0:30:57.560
<v Speaker 2>pregnant with him, you know, like we were, you know,

0:30:57.600 --> 0:31:00.640
<v Speaker 2>we were fuck will never go three other at all,

0:31:00.760 --> 0:31:03.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, you know. But when I was at when

0:31:03.240 --> 0:31:04.840
<v Speaker 2>I was at the rehabit, I knew I had a kid.

0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:06.800
<v Speaker 2>I had to say that realization. It was about four

0:31:06.880 --> 0:31:09.760
<v Speaker 2>or five weeks in you know, I thought, Okay, well

0:31:09.760 --> 0:31:12.240
<v Speaker 2>that's that's my time that I promise you know this

0:31:12.240 --> 0:31:15.200
<v Speaker 2>this guy you know, you know, but like I've got

0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:18.000
<v Speaker 2>a maybe I could do something better with my life,

0:31:18.080 --> 0:31:21.400
<v Speaker 2>just maybe, you know, maybe maybe there's fucking something else

0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:21.880
<v Speaker 2>I can do.

0:31:21.920 --> 0:31:25.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, were you working, like where was the money?

0:31:25.160 --> 0:31:27.760
<v Speaker 1>Not when you're in the program, but where were you

0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:28.640
<v Speaker 1>making your money from?

0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:31.920
<v Speaker 2>All that was in Melbourne? Yeah, in Melbourne I ended

0:31:31.960 --> 0:31:34.880
<v Speaker 2>up working as like a pave and a block layer,

0:31:35.080 --> 0:31:37.000
<v Speaker 2>and they were on all the the you know, on

0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:39.360
<v Speaker 2>the Union sides and EBA rates, and I was mad.

0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:42.200
<v Speaker 2>I was making really good money as a really young kid,

0:31:42.360 --> 0:31:44.160
<v Speaker 2>you know when I say young kid, like as a

0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:46.840
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty one year old, twenty two year old getting

0:31:47.360 --> 0:31:50.120
<v Speaker 2>an adults wage and yeah, yeah yeah, from working in

0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:52.400
<v Speaker 2>sicily from like in one hundred and fifty bucks to

0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:54.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, bringing home to grand a week, you know,

0:31:54.400 --> 0:31:57.600
<v Speaker 2>was that going to drug store? Yeah, all of it, yeah,

0:31:57.680 --> 0:31:59.960
<v Speaker 2>all of it back then, Like you know, I don't

0:32:00.200 --> 0:32:02.520
<v Speaker 2>really nice apartment. I was renting and stuff like that.

0:32:03.200 --> 0:32:05.400
<v Speaker 2>But back then rent was only like twenty fifty or

0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:08.040
<v Speaker 2>three hundred bucks a week, you know, you know, and

0:32:08.080 --> 0:32:10.080
<v Speaker 2>like I was on my own, so like, you know,

0:32:10.320 --> 0:32:12.280
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't even cook. I had to eat out every day.

0:32:12.320 --> 0:32:15.280
<v Speaker 2>You know. My outgoings were about five hundred and six

0:32:15.360 --> 0:32:17.760
<v Speaker 2>hundred bucks a week, and then every other cent went

0:32:17.800 --> 0:32:22.080
<v Speaker 2>to you know, went to backo on drugs. Yeah. Yeah.

0:32:22.200 --> 0:32:26.840
<v Speaker 1>When did you get into your fitness side of things?

0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:35.280
<v Speaker 2>Probably twenty twenty twenty one, you know, twenty one, I

0:32:35.280 --> 0:32:38.080
<v Speaker 2>mean like yeah, I mean I had little, little little

0:32:38.120 --> 0:32:40.920
<v Speaker 2>moments or you know, all three, you know, but like yeah,

0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:44.160
<v Speaker 2>twenty I had my first five at twenty one, you know,

0:32:44.600 --> 0:32:47.800
<v Speaker 2>came from it. At twenty you got got into boxing. Yeah, yeah,

0:32:47.840 --> 0:32:50.080
<v Speaker 2>it was a boxing Yeah yeah.

0:32:50.200 --> 0:32:53.000
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't sort of quate the type of training you

0:32:53.120 --> 0:32:59.600
<v Speaker 1>need to box with putting shit in your body, like yeah.

0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, how did you how did you juggle those?

0:33:00.840 --> 0:33:03.080
<v Speaker 1>Because they're sort of polar opposite.

0:33:03.640 --> 0:33:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Well man, not well, And that's probably reflected on my

0:33:06.360 --> 0:33:08.680
<v Speaker 2>boxing career as well. Like you know, like I just

0:33:10.400 --> 0:33:13.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, like I could fight, you know, and I'd

0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:15.520
<v Speaker 2>be willing to fight and stuff like that. You know,

0:33:15.760 --> 0:33:18.240
<v Speaker 2>So like you, I had a natural bit of aggression.

0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:22.720
<v Speaker 2>You had enough ticker and balls to be able to like,

0:33:22.880 --> 0:33:25.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, if I hold your hands hold my hands

0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:28.400
<v Speaker 2>up mixed with people and stuff. But man, like you know,

0:33:29.240 --> 0:33:31.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, you know, if I was training or fighting

0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:33.520
<v Speaker 2>an eight round fight and stuff like that, you know,

0:33:33.680 --> 0:33:38.040
<v Speaker 2>like you know, there the the you know, the my

0:33:38.280 --> 0:33:41.720
<v Speaker 2>lastle factors would come back for me. You know, you

0:33:41.760 --> 0:33:45.520
<v Speaker 2>know I feel a bit tight around my last fight.

0:33:45.520 --> 0:33:48.360
<v Speaker 2>That is probably my most important fight to my last fight,

0:33:48.560 --> 0:33:54.000
<v Speaker 2>like I trained for it in rehab and heroin overdose.

0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:56.120
<v Speaker 2>Like before I went around where I couldn't I couldn't

0:33:56.160 --> 0:34:00.160
<v Speaker 2>walk for two weeks, you know, and like you know,

0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:04.719
<v Speaker 2>like I got myself fucking to a stage where I

0:34:04.760 --> 0:34:07.960
<v Speaker 2>came out of rehab to two weeks sparring out of rehab,

0:34:08.040 --> 0:34:10.640
<v Speaker 2>and then I jumped in and had a fight. And

0:34:11.600 --> 0:34:14.800
<v Speaker 2>you know I went in there after after thirty seconds

0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:17.080
<v Speaker 2>because I was smoking. I was smoking for thirty cigarettes

0:34:17.120 --> 0:34:20.280
<v Speaker 2>a day, and reality, my whole body went all lactic

0:34:20.360 --> 0:34:23.080
<v Speaker 2>and stuff. You know when I when I walked out

0:34:23.080 --> 0:34:25.040
<v Speaker 2>a five, and though like I lost, and and I

0:34:25.120 --> 0:34:27.840
<v Speaker 2>lost against someone you know, like a tough, a tough journeyman.

0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:29.560
<v Speaker 2>You know that I knew it was going to press me.

0:34:30.040 --> 0:34:31.960
<v Speaker 2>I had to be at my fucking best at and

0:34:31.960 --> 0:34:34.600
<v Speaker 2>you hadn't put in no. I mean I put in

0:34:34.600 --> 0:34:36.400
<v Speaker 2>as best I could, you know, But there was another

0:34:36.440 --> 0:34:40.040
<v Speaker 2>there's another realization. My last old factors fucking just got something.

0:34:40.400 --> 0:34:43.640
<v Speaker 2>I started to because this this is one that this

0:34:43.719 --> 0:34:45.680
<v Speaker 2>is this is an experience that I had through my

0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:49.400
<v Speaker 2>boxing that was real pivotal for the rest of my life.

0:34:49.480 --> 0:34:54.440
<v Speaker 2>Like I had, I was sparring Barry Hall for his

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:58.120
<v Speaker 2>for his fight against Paul Gallant, you know, and and

0:34:58.200 --> 0:35:00.839
<v Speaker 2>Barry Hall's trainer and the promoters and stuff like that. I said,

0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:02.600
<v Speaker 2>if you, if you, if you're willing to spa and

0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:04.080
<v Speaker 2>for his fight and stuff like, we'll get you on

0:35:04.120 --> 0:35:06.440
<v Speaker 2>the undergard. I was like, yeah, beautiful, Like you know

0:35:07.400 --> 0:35:09.000
<v Speaker 2>I was, I was looking to sort of get fit,

0:35:09.320 --> 0:35:10.759
<v Speaker 2>you don't have a fight, and you know, it was

0:35:10.800 --> 0:35:14.359
<v Speaker 2>a good as a fucking beautiful opportunity, beautiful venue and stuff.

0:35:14.400 --> 0:35:17.799
<v Speaker 2>So I thought, yeah, well, you know, why not. And

0:35:17.840 --> 0:35:21.480
<v Speaker 2>then a couple I think it was about a week

0:35:21.960 --> 0:35:25.879
<v Speaker 2>a week before that fight, I got offered an Australasian

0:35:25.920 --> 0:35:28.200
<v Speaker 2>title shot in New Zealand if I'd won that fight,

0:35:28.360 --> 0:35:30.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, and uh in Itzona. It was only a

0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:36.120
<v Speaker 2>few weeks after the fight I had, you know, and

0:35:36.120 --> 0:35:39.160
<v Speaker 2>and I was like fuck you because in my head,

0:35:39.360 --> 0:35:42.560
<v Speaker 2>like when I finished a fight, I want to bend after,

0:35:42.640 --> 0:35:46.160
<v Speaker 2>you know. That was my reward system, you know. And

0:35:46.160 --> 0:35:48.960
<v Speaker 2>and I was married at a time, and uh and

0:35:49.000 --> 0:35:51.439
<v Speaker 2>I won that fight on the undercart of the Paul

0:35:51.480 --> 0:35:55.880
<v Speaker 2>Gallan Barry Hall fight. And my wife, my then wife,

0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:57.520
<v Speaker 2>she asked me, she's going, what are you going to

0:35:57.600 --> 0:35:59.319
<v Speaker 2>do because we had plans to go have a few

0:35:59.400 --> 0:36:01.520
<v Speaker 2>drinks and around. You won that fight, but you got

0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:04.560
<v Speaker 2>another shot in two weeks time, two weeks time, and

0:36:04.600 --> 0:36:05.960
<v Speaker 2>she said, what are you going to do? You're gonna

0:36:06.040 --> 0:36:08.319
<v Speaker 2>You're want to drink. You know, you have a couple

0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:10.840
<v Speaker 2>of dreams, like yeah, we'll just go after a couple,

0:36:11.000 --> 0:36:13.960
<v Speaker 2>you know. And uh so we did, and you know,

0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:16.120
<v Speaker 2>we gotta, we've gotta. We've got a bag of coke.

0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:18.800
<v Speaker 2>And I finished the bag. And this was in Melbourne's

0:36:18.800 --> 0:36:21.719
<v Speaker 2>at Margaret Cordreina in Melbourne, some miles stomping grounds, you know.

0:36:22.160 --> 0:36:24.359
<v Speaker 2>And then I went out, Man, I've got an eight ball.

0:36:24.960 --> 0:36:27.840
<v Speaker 2>I found a couple of fits and you know, and

0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:30.680
<v Speaker 2>and I went back and I put an eight ball

0:36:30.680 --> 0:36:33.480
<v Speaker 2>of coke in my arm. After not fucking one hundred

0:36:33.480 --> 0:36:35.560
<v Speaker 2>and fifty needle marks in my fucking ar because coke

0:36:35.600 --> 0:36:38.120
<v Speaker 2>on your last you know, fifteen minutes, you know, and

0:36:38.160 --> 0:36:41.200
<v Speaker 2>I had it through. I just kept on fucking booting

0:36:41.320 --> 0:36:43.279
<v Speaker 2>up my arm. I remember my wife came out of

0:36:43.320 --> 0:36:46.440
<v Speaker 2>the room like six hours later after a sleep, and

0:36:46.480 --> 0:36:48.600
<v Speaker 2>she looked me out. I was fucking leaning over the

0:36:48.680 --> 0:36:53.600
<v Speaker 2>fridge and she's just going She wasn't upset, like, she

0:36:53.719 --> 0:36:57.279
<v Speaker 2>wasn't angry, like she's just just again disappointed. She's not

0:36:57.320 --> 0:37:00.239
<v Speaker 2>even disappointed, She's just like, what the fuck are you doing? Like,

0:37:00.320 --> 0:37:02.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, what what what is wrong with you? You know?

0:37:02.920 --> 0:37:04.839
<v Speaker 2>I mean I look, I was just like, oh my god,

0:37:05.600 --> 0:37:08.799
<v Speaker 2>who am I? What am I doing? And anyway, so

0:37:08.880 --> 0:37:11.840
<v Speaker 2>I still took the fight over in New Zealand. But

0:37:11.840 --> 0:37:15.160
<v Speaker 2>I remember I remember warming up for that fight. It

0:37:15.640 --> 0:37:17.800
<v Speaker 2>was an Australasian title shot. You know, it was against

0:37:17.840 --> 0:37:19.960
<v Speaker 2>a tough New Zealand Like I knew, I knew I

0:37:20.000 --> 0:37:24.279
<v Speaker 2>had to be my very best, and I was so

0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:26.440
<v Speaker 2>fucking disappointed in myself and I'm warming up for the

0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:29.200
<v Speaker 2>fight and just thinking, fuck, you really let yourself down.

0:37:29.280 --> 0:37:31.840
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's this sabotaging behavior I have my whole

0:37:31.840 --> 0:37:35.719
<v Speaker 2>fucking life, you know, Yeah, and I made them work

0:37:35.760 --> 0:37:37.200
<v Speaker 2>for you know, I think it was like three or

0:37:37.200 --> 0:37:39.160
<v Speaker 2>four rounds before it got stopped, you know, but I

0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:41.960
<v Speaker 2>made them work, and like you know, it was you know,

0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:44.479
<v Speaker 2>I was competitive in that fight, and I thought to myself, Fuck,

0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:47.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, you fucked that up for yourself. You know

0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:50.840
<v Speaker 2>you could have won that fucking fight. And you know

0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:52.680
<v Speaker 2>you fucked that up for yourself. And like, you know,

0:37:53.200 --> 0:37:56.319
<v Speaker 2>I thought, Okay, that's happened. Now, I'll chalk that up

0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:58.959
<v Speaker 2>as a as a learning experience, but never again in life.

0:37:59.040 --> 0:38:02.160
<v Speaker 2>And I'm gonna I want to sabotage that stuff, okay.

0:38:02.480 --> 0:38:05.600
<v Speaker 1>And I take what you're saying there. It's a metaphor

0:38:05.640 --> 0:38:08.400
<v Speaker 1>for life and something that you can learn. And I

0:38:08.400 --> 0:38:10.080
<v Speaker 1>think I get into a bit of trouble on eye

0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:12.839
<v Speaker 1>catch killers because I love talking boxing stories, but it's

0:38:12.920 --> 0:38:17.200
<v Speaker 1>just it's fascinating. But I think it is so many

0:38:17.280 --> 0:38:19.960
<v Speaker 1>valuable life lessons to learn because you can't cheat it

0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:22.920
<v Speaker 1>in the in the boxing ring. If you've taken shortcuts,

0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:25.440
<v Speaker 1>you're going to get found out in the boxing ring.

0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:29.040
<v Speaker 1>And if you could have that realization in life, we're

0:38:29.080 --> 0:38:30.960
<v Speaker 1>not just looking at boxing, We're looking.

0:38:30.760 --> 0:38:32.200
<v Speaker 2>At the way you approach your life.

0:38:32.239 --> 0:38:35.560
<v Speaker 1>Like if you're taking the shortcuts and you're not fully committing,

0:38:35.800 --> 0:38:37.759
<v Speaker 1>you're going to be found out. And that's is that

0:38:37.840 --> 0:38:40.240
<v Speaker 1>the lesson that yeah you got in that situation.

0:38:39.920 --> 0:38:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah you'll be fair found out. In the boxing ring,

0:38:42.600 --> 0:38:44.600
<v Speaker 2>you get found out. But like you know, in the

0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:46.200
<v Speaker 2>rest of life, you know, you just don't. You just

0:38:46.200 --> 0:38:49.200
<v Speaker 2>don't get to experienced life that well. You know, maybe

0:38:49.200 --> 0:38:50.760
<v Speaker 2>if you're going to start a business in the second

0:38:50.800 --> 0:38:52.640
<v Speaker 2>it gets a little bit harder you back off. Men, know,

0:38:52.840 --> 0:38:54.680
<v Speaker 2>you spend all your money on like you know, the

0:38:54.719 --> 0:38:56.759
<v Speaker 2>business has failed, you know, and every business that I've

0:38:56.800 --> 0:39:01.000
<v Speaker 2>ever had has only done well after that. A little

0:39:01.000 --> 0:39:02.880
<v Speaker 2>bit of pressure that you feel or you know, if

0:39:02.880 --> 0:39:05.200
<v Speaker 2>you jump into a relationship and you have one foot

0:39:05.280 --> 0:39:07.480
<v Speaker 2>in and one foot out in that way, if it

0:39:07.480 --> 0:39:09.840
<v Speaker 2>doesn't you know, you know, you're the first of argument.

0:39:09.880 --> 0:39:12.399
<v Speaker 2>You're just like, oh fuck there, somehow I never really

0:39:12.400 --> 0:39:15.600
<v Speaker 2>loved her anyway or whatever. You all you do was

0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:19.400
<v Speaker 2>robbing yourself of like, you know, a good experience.

0:39:19.440 --> 0:39:22.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I see what you're saying there with a relationship

0:39:22.320 --> 0:39:24.520
<v Speaker 1>that you're not giving it a real go. But if

0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:27.440
<v Speaker 1>you don't fully commit, you ah, well it just it

0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:30.360
<v Speaker 1>didn't work out because you haven't haven't committed to it.

0:39:30.440 --> 0:39:33.719
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, in the same same with with business. So

0:39:34.160 --> 0:39:36.840
<v Speaker 1>all these these are lessons lessons in life. So for

0:39:36.880 --> 0:39:39.120
<v Speaker 1>the naysayers on eye catch killers that we talk about

0:39:39.120 --> 0:39:42.400
<v Speaker 1>boxing all the time, that's because there are some some

0:39:42.520 --> 0:39:45.719
<v Speaker 1>valuable lessons to learn. So when you when you see that,

0:39:45.840 --> 0:39:48.640
<v Speaker 1>do you you would have been disappointed at yourself? That

0:39:48.760 --> 0:39:51.400
<v Speaker 1>was that was a chance to progressing something you're obviously

0:39:51.400 --> 0:39:52.160
<v Speaker 1>passionate about.

0:39:52.280 --> 0:39:54.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I mean, look, I mean boxing for me,

0:39:55.000 --> 0:39:56.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean that would have been my limit. You know,

0:39:56.719 --> 0:39:59.440
<v Speaker 2>if if I had won Australian title, on Australasian title,

0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:01.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, I would have been wrapped. You know that

0:40:01.680 --> 0:40:03.880
<v Speaker 2>that was my like you know, like I want to

0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:05.799
<v Speaker 2>stay titled. I was happy with that, but like I

0:40:05.840 --> 0:40:08.400
<v Speaker 2>wanted to I would have loved to win a national

0:40:09.320 --> 0:40:11.759
<v Speaker 2>or an Australasian title. That would have been, you know,

0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:14.279
<v Speaker 2>something I would have thought I've really overachieved yet. That

0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:17.360
<v Speaker 2>would have been you know great, you know, but my

0:40:17.520 --> 0:40:21.640
<v Speaker 2>boxing for me, I trained myself pretty much or you know,

0:40:21.840 --> 0:40:23.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, my last few amateur fights and pretty much

0:40:23.920 --> 0:40:27.799
<v Speaker 2>all my profiles except for one. For me, it was

0:40:28.320 --> 0:40:31.960
<v Speaker 2>it was just this fucking escape from myself.

0:40:32.080 --> 0:40:35.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, it make you feel better about yourself, like

0:40:36.080 --> 0:40:39.840
<v Speaker 1>doing doing something where you're trying to take some pride

0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:41.040
<v Speaker 1>in in what you're doing.

0:40:41.520 --> 0:40:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it wasn't even it wasn't even so much the

0:40:43.680 --> 0:40:45.440
<v Speaker 2>external stuff. But I think, yeah, I think it was

0:40:45.480 --> 0:40:47.080
<v Speaker 2>nice to get the pats on the back from people.

0:40:47.160 --> 0:40:49.200
<v Speaker 2>I think it was, you know, But for me, I

0:40:49.280 --> 0:40:52.160
<v Speaker 2>was so tortured mentally. I didn't realize this at the time,

0:40:52.239 --> 0:40:55.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, like that, And the only time I wasn't

0:40:55.600 --> 0:40:59.600
<v Speaker 2>dreading the past or fearful of the future was you know,

0:41:00.160 --> 0:41:03.400
<v Speaker 2>when I was fucking boxing, you know, because when someone's

0:41:03.440 --> 0:41:05.279
<v Speaker 2>in front of you trying to hit you, you know,

0:41:05.400 --> 0:41:07.680
<v Speaker 2>like you're not focusing on all the all the all

0:41:07.719 --> 0:41:10.359
<v Speaker 2>the shameful things I've done in the past, or all

0:41:10.360 --> 0:41:12.560
<v Speaker 2>my doubts are having myself in the future and stuff

0:41:12.600 --> 0:41:14.120
<v Speaker 2>like that. You know, you're just that. And then and

0:41:14.320 --> 0:41:17.080
<v Speaker 2>after you exert that much energy and you walk out

0:41:17.120 --> 0:41:19.319
<v Speaker 2>the ring, you get big dopamine rush for an hour

0:41:19.440 --> 0:41:22.480
<v Speaker 2>or two and I st you know, three hours or

0:41:22.480 --> 0:41:25.880
<v Speaker 2>not about not thinking about me and my ship and

0:41:25.880 --> 0:41:28.840
<v Speaker 2>my problems. Mate. Just darkness would come back over me

0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:31.759
<v Speaker 2>after that you know, like as I never I never

0:41:31.880 --> 0:41:34.080
<v Speaker 2>understood myself. I never knew how to look at myself.

0:41:34.080 --> 0:41:36.040
<v Speaker 2>I never took ownership of anything. I didn't know how

0:41:36.040 --> 0:41:38.359
<v Speaker 2>to work through anything. And say, you know, for me,

0:41:38.440 --> 0:41:42.040
<v Speaker 2>it was like a little reprieve from this fucking horrible

0:41:42.040 --> 0:41:43.640
<v Speaker 2>state of fucking living that I was living in.

0:41:43.680 --> 0:41:46.680
<v Speaker 1>There you touched on something like I and you made

0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:48.799
<v Speaker 1>the point like you're not thinking about anything else if

0:41:48.800 --> 0:41:51.560
<v Speaker 1>someone's hitting you in the head and you're thinking about

0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:53.319
<v Speaker 1>trying to trying to avoid.

0:41:53.040 --> 0:41:54.600
<v Speaker 2>It or return the shot.

0:41:55.480 --> 0:41:58.359
<v Speaker 1>That helped me through doing a homicide detective as long

0:41:58.400 --> 0:42:00.239
<v Speaker 1>as I was, And people go, well, what what do

0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:01.960
<v Speaker 1>you do the relax And I go, well, I can

0:42:02.000 --> 0:42:04.120
<v Speaker 1>forget about work at the moment I step into a

0:42:04.200 --> 0:42:05.960
<v Speaker 1>ring and someone's trying to beat the shit out of me.

0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm not thinking.

0:42:07.200 --> 0:42:09.879
<v Speaker 1>About the pressure of the work or the horrible things

0:42:09.880 --> 0:42:11.759
<v Speaker 1>that I've seen at work. So I understand that that

0:42:11.960 --> 0:42:13.440
<v Speaker 1>is a form of escapism.

0:42:13.800 --> 0:42:16.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because it's hard to explain that to people that

0:42:16.120 --> 0:42:17.960
<v Speaker 2>don't get it. That's one of the reasons now, like

0:42:18.040 --> 0:42:20.839
<v Speaker 2>I actually feel I should feel mentally in a much

0:42:20.880 --> 0:42:23.640
<v Speaker 2>better place, and physically you feel like I'm a pretty

0:42:23.680 --> 0:42:25.640
<v Speaker 2>good shape too. It's like, I don't feel like it's

0:42:25.680 --> 0:42:28.560
<v Speaker 2>not that I couldn't fight now. I made the thought of, like,

0:42:28.680 --> 0:42:30.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, the thought of me training really hard to

0:42:30.480 --> 0:42:33.760
<v Speaker 2>hurt someone now, or like even you know I desire

0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:37.560
<v Speaker 2>to be hit now, isn't there. I think that's because

0:42:37.560 --> 0:42:39.920
<v Speaker 2>of like the fucking internal work I've done on myself. Man,

0:42:39.960 --> 0:42:42.080
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean? You know, like it was

0:42:42.080 --> 0:42:45.120
<v Speaker 2>something I really needed back then. It's just not It's

0:42:45.160 --> 0:42:47.000
<v Speaker 2>just not something that motivates me now. You know.

0:42:49.640 --> 0:42:53.040
<v Speaker 1>In one of the one of the podcasts you did

0:42:53.239 --> 0:42:55.320
<v Speaker 1>and some of the stuff I've read about you, you

0:42:55.840 --> 0:42:58.640
<v Speaker 1>made a comment and I think I've captured it. But

0:42:58.640 --> 0:43:01.399
<v Speaker 1>I'd like you to need to love yourself in order

0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:04.560
<v Speaker 1>to heal. And you're talking about you're going the pain

0:43:04.719 --> 0:43:07.480
<v Speaker 1>and the boxing ring gave you and escape from all

0:43:07.520 --> 0:43:10.479
<v Speaker 1>the trauma and different stuff that you've been through. What

0:43:10.480 --> 0:43:12.399
<v Speaker 1>what's your view on that? If I if I make

0:43:12.440 --> 0:43:15.759
<v Speaker 1>the statement or pulling out stuff that you've said you

0:43:15.880 --> 0:43:18.160
<v Speaker 1>need to love yourself to heal? What, what's what's that

0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:18.600
<v Speaker 1>all about?

0:43:19.400 --> 0:43:22.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I mean, look, I just think we need to

0:43:22.120 --> 0:43:24.680
<v Speaker 2>love ourselves full stop. And so what what what what

0:43:24.800 --> 0:43:27.279
<v Speaker 2>I do. What I mean, what I aid to do

0:43:27.360 --> 0:43:31.799
<v Speaker 2>with the rehab things now is to show people pathways

0:43:31.840 --> 0:43:34.440
<v Speaker 2>to learn how to accept themselves and love themselves. But

0:43:34.480 --> 0:43:36.319
<v Speaker 2>you know what I do outside the rehab too, I

0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:39.080
<v Speaker 2>do like coaching and stuff I help you do, mentoring

0:43:39.160 --> 0:43:41.880
<v Speaker 2>and stuff like that. And and I've got a process

0:43:41.880 --> 0:43:44.919
<v Speaker 2>that I do with people, one that I've got taken

0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:49.680
<v Speaker 2>through as well, which which shows us who we actually are,

0:43:49.719 --> 0:43:52.200
<v Speaker 2>like you know, and you know, and who we are,

0:43:52.600 --> 0:43:54.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, like outside of our ego, outside of all

0:43:54.760 --> 0:43:57.479
<v Speaker 2>our labels and you know, and and learn to become

0:43:57.520 --> 0:43:59.600
<v Speaker 2>okay with that, excepting that, and learn to love that,

0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:03.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, you know, because if if we don't, if

0:44:03.280 --> 0:44:06.000
<v Speaker 2>we don't accept ourselves, man, that just gets projected on

0:44:06.200 --> 0:44:08.479
<v Speaker 2>the outside, and like you know, it affects our lives

0:44:08.520 --> 0:44:09.560
<v Speaker 2>in a big way. You know.

0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Do you get the sense that there's people that don't

0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:15.640
<v Speaker 1>love themselves? Is self sabotage?

0:44:15.960 --> 0:44:19.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Mate? And I think if most people are really honest,

0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:21.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, if you ask most people, do you actually

0:44:22.000 --> 0:44:24.320
<v Speaker 2>love yourself or do you like yourself? Will accept yourself?

0:44:24.880 --> 0:44:27.680
<v Speaker 2>If people are really honest, I reckon it'd be in

0:44:27.719 --> 0:44:30.680
<v Speaker 2>the ninety percent of people would say they wouldn't, you know, like,

0:44:30.880 --> 0:44:34.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, I think there's a real there's a real

0:44:36.239 --> 0:44:41.319
<v Speaker 2>discord from from you know, people living as they are,

0:44:41.360 --> 0:44:44.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, like you know, and and it can be

0:44:44.080 --> 0:44:46.279
<v Speaker 2>seen by people sort of needing to be part of

0:44:46.320 --> 0:44:48.560
<v Speaker 2>the masses and part of the trends and stuff like that,

0:44:48.680 --> 0:44:51.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, like you know, and that's a that's a

0:44:51.160 --> 0:44:53.319
<v Speaker 2>big sign of people just being disconnected from who they are,

0:44:53.360 --> 0:44:54.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, like when we say to me about the

0:44:54.640 --> 0:44:57.480
<v Speaker 2>tattoos and stuff like, like you know, yeah, you can

0:44:57.520 --> 0:45:00.359
<v Speaker 2>have these these these negative connotations and stuff for that,

0:45:00.400 --> 0:45:02.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, but like you know, like I'm okay with me,

0:45:03.080 --> 0:45:05.160
<v Speaker 2>and like, you know, whatever decision I make for me

0:45:05.360 --> 0:45:08.120
<v Speaker 2>is okay with me, and stuff like that. Whereas a

0:45:08.160 --> 0:45:10.600
<v Speaker 2>lot of people if like a new new set of

0:45:10.600 --> 0:45:12.719
<v Speaker 2>sneak is coming stuff like that, you know, like they

0:45:12.760 --> 0:45:15.520
<v Speaker 2>need they need those or they need to they need

0:45:15.560 --> 0:45:17.720
<v Speaker 2>to drive a certain car to feel a certain way,

0:45:17.840 --> 0:45:21.040
<v Speaker 2>and they need to be seen at certain places with

0:45:21.200 --> 0:45:25.239
<v Speaker 2>certain people and all that stuff, you know. And like

0:45:25.360 --> 0:45:29.239
<v Speaker 2>in a and my validation's nice, Like it's nice. It's

0:45:29.280 --> 0:45:31.120
<v Speaker 2>not like I don't like it, It's just I don't

0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:34.440
<v Speaker 2>need it anymore. You know, and I feel like I

0:45:34.440 --> 0:45:37.880
<v Speaker 2>feel like that's the that's a separator when you you know,

0:45:38.160 --> 0:45:40.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think there's two types of conflict. You know,

0:45:40.440 --> 0:45:43.640
<v Speaker 2>there's a conflict. There's internal conflict an external conflict. We

0:45:43.680 --> 0:45:46.600
<v Speaker 2>get to choose which one. Ninety percent of people have

0:45:46.760 --> 0:45:50.480
<v Speaker 2>their internal conflict where they look for they look to

0:45:50.520 --> 0:45:52.400
<v Speaker 2>be part of the crowd, but then they have to

0:45:52.440 --> 0:45:56.280
<v Speaker 2>live with internal conflict that says you're fucking lying to yourself,

0:45:56.320 --> 0:45:58.480
<v Speaker 2>your lying to everyone around you just so you can

0:45:58.520 --> 0:46:00.680
<v Speaker 2>blend in. And then there's a peopleeple, like you know,

0:46:01.600 --> 0:46:04.200
<v Speaker 2>there's a five to ten percent they have the external

0:46:04.200 --> 0:46:06.960
<v Speaker 2>conflict where they do everything that they know they need

0:46:07.000 --> 0:46:09.000
<v Speaker 2>to do for themselves, which is how I try to

0:46:09.040 --> 0:46:11.359
<v Speaker 2>live today, and most of the time I do. But

0:46:11.400 --> 0:46:13.520
<v Speaker 2>then you get the external conflict, you know, you get

0:46:13.880 --> 0:46:16.239
<v Speaker 2>you get people calling you weird and people calling you

0:46:16.320 --> 0:46:18.440
<v Speaker 2>like like what are you doing? Like you wake up

0:46:18.440 --> 0:46:21.520
<v Speaker 2>at one thirty fucking weirdo? You're obsessed? Yeah you know, yeah,

0:46:21.680 --> 0:46:25.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, yeah, yeah. I post really vulnerable open stuff

0:46:25.760 --> 0:46:27.680
<v Speaker 2>about my life and my journey on my you know,

0:46:27.719 --> 0:46:30.080
<v Speaker 2>on my socials and stuff, and I get people fucking

0:46:31.000 --> 0:46:33.000
<v Speaker 2>saying whatever about it. Man, But like I don't give

0:46:33.040 --> 0:46:36.239
<v Speaker 2>a fuck because like that's the external conflict. But internally,

0:46:36.400 --> 0:46:38.520
<v Speaker 2>for the first time ever in my life, I've been

0:46:38.560 --> 0:46:42.120
<v Speaker 2>okay with myself, you know, like for someone's running from

0:46:42.160 --> 0:46:44.520
<v Speaker 2>himself his whole life and sticking needles in his fucking

0:46:44.640 --> 0:46:46.600
<v Speaker 2>arms and stuff like that. You know, like, you know,

0:46:48.200 --> 0:46:53.000
<v Speaker 2>that's that's that's the repercussions of me not living you know,

0:46:53.080 --> 0:46:55.160
<v Speaker 2>not living in alignment to me. You know, so like

0:46:55.480 --> 0:46:59.239
<v Speaker 2>I've got no choice see other other people's you know,

0:47:00.800 --> 0:47:05.279
<v Speaker 2>the repercussions for other people not living as who they are.

0:47:05.600 --> 0:47:07.080
<v Speaker 2>You know, they're not as big as mine. You know,

0:47:07.239 --> 0:47:13.120
<v Speaker 2>I've got no choice, man, either either live and adopt

0:47:13.200 --> 0:47:16.040
<v Speaker 2>this this lifestyle that I learned how to live through

0:47:16.080 --> 0:47:18.640
<v Speaker 2>some incredible people that taught me how to live this way,

0:47:18.880 --> 0:47:21.759
<v Speaker 2>or the alternative for me is really fucking bad. You know.

0:47:22.320 --> 0:47:25.680
<v Speaker 1>Well you touched on stuff that and why you're talking.

0:47:25.920 --> 0:47:29.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm sort of reflecting on the things in my life

0:47:29.200 --> 0:47:34.319
<v Speaker 1>about that internal conflict or external conflict. And I was

0:47:34.360 --> 0:47:36.200
<v Speaker 1>in the cops for a long long time. Now, that's

0:47:36.239 --> 0:47:39.640
<v Speaker 1>an organization where you're meant to conform, and yeah, if

0:47:39.640 --> 0:47:41.839
<v Speaker 1>you step out of line or stick your head up

0:47:42.239 --> 0:47:45.680
<v Speaker 1>or whatever you tend to get dragged back into. This

0:47:45.760 --> 0:47:50.399
<v Speaker 1>is how we do it in this organization. My yeah,

0:47:50.520 --> 0:47:52.960
<v Speaker 1>as everyone knows that listens to the podcast, that my

0:47:53.400 --> 0:47:55.640
<v Speaker 1>career ended in tears and controversy.

0:47:57.960 --> 0:47:59.560
<v Speaker 2>Shit happens, I know.

0:48:00.520 --> 0:48:05.040
<v Speaker 1>But I feel good within myself because I was been

0:48:05.120 --> 0:48:09.600
<v Speaker 1>true to myself, Like there was aspects of when allegations

0:48:09.600 --> 0:48:11.919
<v Speaker 1>were made at me, I could have taken the knee

0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:14.800
<v Speaker 1>and said, I'm sorry, I've been suffering stress, I was working,

0:48:14.880 --> 0:48:18.080
<v Speaker 1>blah blah blah, and I chose a different path. I've

0:48:18.120 --> 0:48:23.280
<v Speaker 1>said bullshit. I own everything that I did and I'm

0:48:23.320 --> 0:48:26.520
<v Speaker 1>not going to apologize for it now. Yeah, I was

0:48:26.560 --> 0:48:29.680
<v Speaker 1>going for all the dilemmas in my mind, what's do

0:48:29.760 --> 0:48:32.000
<v Speaker 1>you take the easy path? And the easier path would

0:48:32.040 --> 0:48:36.080
<v Speaker 1>have been to show contrition and fall back into line.

0:48:36.560 --> 0:48:39.799
<v Speaker 1>But I wouldn't have been true to myself. Now, I

0:48:39.840 --> 0:48:41.839
<v Speaker 1>could have done it easier. I could have done it

0:48:41.880 --> 0:48:45.600
<v Speaker 1>easier when the front page of the paper and you've

0:48:45.600 --> 0:48:47.759
<v Speaker 1>got me standing there going I'd rather gave the jail

0:48:47.800 --> 0:48:53.759
<v Speaker 1>than pay a fine. That's not a good strategy when

0:48:53.760 --> 0:48:57.120
<v Speaker 1>you're about to go to court. But I looking back

0:48:57.160 --> 0:48:59.200
<v Speaker 1>now and it's been four or five years. I'm so

0:48:59.360 --> 0:49:01.680
<v Speaker 1>glad I've taken that path because I don't know if

0:49:01.680 --> 0:49:04.640
<v Speaker 1>I could have lived with myself if if I wasn't

0:49:04.640 --> 0:49:06.879
<v Speaker 1>being true to myself. So a lot of what you've

0:49:06.920 --> 0:49:10.480
<v Speaker 1>touched on there, I think it's so important. And we're

0:49:10.480 --> 0:49:12.840
<v Speaker 1>all going to be criticized. People aren't going to like you,

0:49:13.040 --> 0:49:15.720
<v Speaker 1>people aren't going to like me. But if you're doing

0:49:15.760 --> 0:49:19.399
<v Speaker 1>what you believe to be the right thing and it's

0:49:19.440 --> 0:49:21.520
<v Speaker 1>your your journey, I think you've got to hold on the.

0:49:21.560 --> 0:49:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Days, yeah, for sure. And the criticism doesn't sting when

0:49:24.520 --> 0:49:27.919
<v Speaker 2>you're being good with yourself, you know, criticisms it's only

0:49:28.000 --> 0:49:30.600
<v Speaker 2>really hurtful when you when you're needing the validation of

0:49:30.640 --> 0:49:33.239
<v Speaker 2>other people, you know what I mean. So you know,

0:49:33.280 --> 0:49:37.840
<v Speaker 2>like I said, you know, if I'm taking criticism personally today,

0:49:38.160 --> 0:49:40.160
<v Speaker 2>like I know, I'm not, I'm not living the best

0:49:40.200 --> 0:49:42.480
<v Speaker 2>as I can. I'm not I'm not honoring myself in

0:49:42.520 --> 0:49:45.359
<v Speaker 2>some way, you know. So I'm much like you, you know,

0:49:45.560 --> 0:49:49.080
<v Speaker 2>And and not only that, like you know, when people

0:49:49.320 --> 0:49:54.120
<v Speaker 2>actually do live and do honor their truth and stuff

0:49:54.120 --> 0:49:56.359
<v Speaker 2>like that, it's admirable. Like I found what you did

0:49:56.480 --> 0:49:58.479
<v Speaker 2>was really admirable. I've got a huge amount of respect

0:49:58.800 --> 0:50:01.560
<v Speaker 2>you for what you did. You know. Yeah, And I

0:50:01.600 --> 0:50:05.200
<v Speaker 2>feel like with other people that have had similar experiences

0:50:05.239 --> 0:50:07.000
<v Speaker 2>like you and I have had the people that sort

0:50:07.040 --> 0:50:10.960
<v Speaker 2>of like regardless of like any sort of like external pressures,

0:50:11.040 --> 0:50:13.279
<v Speaker 2>they just they just stand the truth and they you know,

0:50:13.360 --> 0:50:15.439
<v Speaker 2>like I look at that shit and just it's that's

0:50:15.440 --> 0:50:18.080
<v Speaker 2>fucking cool. That's that's that's.

0:50:19.640 --> 0:50:22.040
<v Speaker 1>The people that I look up to, all the people

0:50:22.080 --> 0:50:24.520
<v Speaker 1>that have been mentals or that have always walked their

0:50:24.560 --> 0:50:28.040
<v Speaker 1>own path and stayed true to themselves. And I like

0:50:28.120 --> 0:50:30.480
<v Speaker 1>to want of the people that have trained me to

0:50:30.800 --> 0:50:33.800
<v Speaker 1>to do that. But yeah, it comes to the price.

0:50:33.880 --> 0:50:36.759
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, when and someone once said to me, and

0:50:36.800 --> 0:50:40.120
<v Speaker 1>I can't remember the exact quote, but yeah, the quality

0:50:40.160 --> 0:50:43.160
<v Speaker 1>of life is often demonstrated by the quality of the

0:50:43.160 --> 0:50:47.480
<v Speaker 1>people who criticize you. And yeah, I'm saying, like some

0:50:47.520 --> 0:50:50.600
<v Speaker 1>of the people that attacked me, well, I couldn't give

0:50:50.680 --> 0:50:53.160
<v Speaker 1>us stuff what they think about when it's all said

0:50:53.200 --> 0:50:55.560
<v Speaker 1>and done. And that's that's not arrogance. That's not me

0:50:55.719 --> 0:50:58.920
<v Speaker 1>going I'm better than you. It's just your opinion doesn't

0:50:58.960 --> 0:51:01.880
<v Speaker 1>count in in my world. I don't value your opinion

0:51:01.880 --> 0:51:05.600
<v Speaker 1>because I don't value you as a persona And yeah,

0:51:05.640 --> 0:51:09.320
<v Speaker 1>you've got to balance that with sometimes where you criticize,

0:51:09.400 --> 0:51:12.919
<v Speaker 1>it's justifiable, and that's if you're aware of the type

0:51:12.960 --> 0:51:15.319
<v Speaker 1>of person you are. You've got to check yourself then

0:51:15.400 --> 0:51:19.760
<v Speaker 1>and go, okay, well that's that's a fair, fair call. Yeah, okay,

0:51:19.800 --> 0:51:22.480
<v Speaker 1>I'll pull my head in. But again, that's been true

0:51:22.480 --> 0:51:24.719
<v Speaker 1>to yourself. You're trying to improve yourself, and I get

0:51:24.760 --> 0:51:27.239
<v Speaker 1>the sense with your life and when we get into

0:51:27.600 --> 0:51:30.279
<v Speaker 1>part two, we'll talk about what you're doing with hope

0:51:30.280 --> 0:51:33.320
<v Speaker 1>and help and the way that you've turned your life around.

0:51:33.800 --> 0:51:37.319
<v Speaker 1>But okay, you accept this life that I'm living, this ship.

0:51:37.640 --> 0:51:40.160
<v Speaker 1>You use the boxing example. You know, I'm fighting for

0:51:40.200 --> 0:51:43.440
<v Speaker 1>a title, but I've been putting shit in my body

0:51:43.480 --> 0:51:47.279
<v Speaker 1>and it's not preparing for it properly. So yeah, you've

0:51:47.280 --> 0:51:49.279
<v Speaker 1>got to have some acknowledgment. You've got to learn. And

0:51:49.640 --> 0:51:50.880
<v Speaker 1>life is a journey, isn't it.

0:51:51.000 --> 0:51:54.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah I understand, Yeah, I understand. Yeah, And that's exactly right.

0:51:54.480 --> 0:51:56.680
<v Speaker 2>So you know I've got and I've got that perspective

0:51:56.719 --> 0:51:59.560
<v Speaker 2>of life now, you know, like I'm never a victim. Now,

0:51:59.640 --> 0:52:01.759
<v Speaker 2>you know, I take full responsibility for everything. So I'm

0:52:01.840 --> 0:52:03.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm the common denominated in all my ship. You know,

0:52:03.880 --> 0:52:05.960
<v Speaker 2>everything's happening for me, not to me. You know. So

0:52:06.040 --> 0:52:10.280
<v Speaker 2>when when I'm going through something, you know, like I'm thinking,

0:52:10.480 --> 0:52:14.360
<v Speaker 2>all's like, you know, I'm coming up against stuff. You know,

0:52:14.400 --> 0:52:16.879
<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking, well, what am I meant to learn through this?

0:52:17.040 --> 0:52:20.879
<v Speaker 2>You know, and that just just that perception of just

0:52:20.880 --> 0:52:25.439
<v Speaker 2>just just just perceiving life that way, it just makes

0:52:25.480 --> 0:52:27.239
<v Speaker 2>it a fucking journey, you know what I mean, like

0:52:27.360 --> 0:52:31.319
<v Speaker 2>rather than this fucking struggle, you know, And it's been

0:52:31.360 --> 0:52:34.600
<v Speaker 2>a it's been a complete life changing experiences.

0:52:34.040 --> 0:52:37.080
<v Speaker 1>That you know, I get what you're saying, and I

0:52:37.120 --> 0:52:40.920
<v Speaker 1>think it's a valuable, valuable comment there that you don't

0:52:40.920 --> 0:52:43.319
<v Speaker 1>always see yourself as a victim. You go, Okay, why

0:52:43.480 --> 0:52:46.279
<v Speaker 1>why did this happen? I see there the type of

0:52:46.320 --> 0:52:48.480
<v Speaker 1>lessons that you've learned for sure.

0:52:48.280 --> 0:52:50.759
<v Speaker 2>For sure. I mean it's hard to see when life

0:52:50.800 --> 0:52:53.080
<v Speaker 2>doesn't go the way we predict the two you know,

0:52:53.200 --> 0:52:55.200
<v Speaker 2>we plan it to or hope it goes. You know,

0:52:55.600 --> 0:52:57.839
<v Speaker 2>we look at it as like unfortunate or like it's

0:52:57.880 --> 0:53:00.360
<v Speaker 2>not this fucking blessing that it is, you know, like it.

0:53:01.360 --> 0:53:03.239
<v Speaker 2>But you know, if you can actually sort of like

0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:05.160
<v Speaker 2>if you spend a bit of time like ordering your

0:53:05.160 --> 0:53:07.439
<v Speaker 2>life and reviewing your life and stuff, like you look

0:53:07.480 --> 0:53:10.080
<v Speaker 2>back at all those moments that that when things didn't

0:53:10.160 --> 0:53:13.600
<v Speaker 2>go the way you plan, it's because like fucking what

0:53:13.760 --> 0:53:16.160
<v Speaker 2>really needed to happen ended up happening, you know. And

0:53:16.320 --> 0:53:17.800
<v Speaker 2>I just feel like that. And that's the thing about

0:53:17.800 --> 0:53:19.680
<v Speaker 2>slowing down for me now, you know, I always live

0:53:19.760 --> 0:53:22.319
<v Speaker 2>life really fast paced, like fucking next thing, next thing,

0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:24.359
<v Speaker 2>the next thing. When you actually slow down, you look

0:53:24.360 --> 0:53:26.200
<v Speaker 2>at life, you just go, man like everything is just

0:53:26.239 --> 0:53:29.560
<v Speaker 2>working out in this an incredible way. You know. Yeah,

0:53:29.560 --> 0:53:32.400
<v Speaker 2>it's got hardships, it's got challenges, it's got like heartbreaks,

0:53:32.400 --> 0:53:34.520
<v Speaker 2>it's got all this stuff in it. Like you know,

0:53:34.920 --> 0:53:38.600
<v Speaker 2>maybe you know, as humans, like we're we're like fucking

0:53:38.680 --> 0:53:41.480
<v Speaker 2>pre programmed. I blame social media for this is a

0:53:41.480 --> 0:53:44.000
<v Speaker 2>lot as well, pre programmed to like chase happiness and

0:53:44.040 --> 0:53:46.400
<v Speaker 2>comfort and stuff like that, you know, because everyone's gloating

0:53:46.400 --> 0:53:48.560
<v Speaker 2>about like this fucking life that they want everyone else

0:53:48.560 --> 0:53:50.800
<v Speaker 2>to see them having and stuff. So we feel shame

0:53:50.880 --> 0:53:53.640
<v Speaker 2>when we're not fucking feeling happy, you know, I mean,

0:53:53.680 --> 0:53:56.520
<v Speaker 2>we're human beings. It's full array of fucking emotions. You

0:53:56.560 --> 0:53:58.560
<v Speaker 2>know that you know, and we feel like if we're

0:53:58.560 --> 0:54:01.920
<v Speaker 2>not happy, we've got to suppress it. So yeah, but

0:54:02.320 --> 0:54:05.600
<v Speaker 2>the actuality is man. Part of the fucking human experience

0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:06.759
<v Speaker 2>is to experience all of it.

0:54:07.000 --> 0:54:11.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, before you mentioned social media. Before social media,

0:54:11.080 --> 0:54:13.960
<v Speaker 1>I used to always make the comment I can't judge

0:54:13.960 --> 0:54:18.120
<v Speaker 1>on relationships. I've had some good ones, bad ones, and failings.

0:54:18.040 --> 0:54:24.239
<v Speaker 2>But they happened to just gone through another one.

0:54:26.840 --> 0:54:31.160
<v Speaker 1>But I would always laugh, not laugh, but I make

0:54:31.200 --> 0:54:33.760
<v Speaker 1>the comments of people close to me. Yeah, the couples

0:54:33.760 --> 0:54:37.440
<v Speaker 1>that you see in the first six months saying how

0:54:37.520 --> 0:54:40.719
<v Speaker 1>much they love each other, and that's just beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.

0:54:40.960 --> 0:54:44.080
<v Speaker 1>It's like pre social media days, look how happy we are.

0:54:44.600 --> 0:54:48.719
<v Speaker 1>And you could almost go, that's going to fail trying

0:54:48.719 --> 0:54:52.040
<v Speaker 1>to present this persona that life's perfect and you think

0:54:52.080 --> 0:54:54.680
<v Speaker 1>it can't be that perfect because life is not that perfect.

0:54:55.520 --> 0:54:58.759
<v Speaker 1>So that that takes it takes them down the notch.

0:54:59.120 --> 0:55:02.400
<v Speaker 1>But look, let's let's leave it, leave it there for

0:55:02.440 --> 0:55:05.560
<v Speaker 1>part one. When we get back, I want you to

0:55:05.600 --> 0:55:08.320
<v Speaker 1>take us on the journey that how you break away

0:55:08.320 --> 0:55:11.879
<v Speaker 1>from your addiction and then the impressive work that you're

0:55:11.920 --> 0:55:15.839
<v Speaker 1>doing it. I hope in health rehabilitation, because I think

0:55:15.920 --> 0:55:19.560
<v Speaker 1>that's yeah, and this is a crime podcast. The amount

0:55:19.560 --> 0:55:24.319
<v Speaker 1>of addictions and that impact on crime, it's yeah, it's

0:55:24.560 --> 0:55:27.000
<v Speaker 1>a one way straight. When I look at your life,

0:55:27.080 --> 0:55:30.080
<v Speaker 1>if we stop the podcast here and we didn't, I

0:55:30.080 --> 0:55:32.239
<v Speaker 1>didn't know what you did in the future. I got

0:55:32.239 --> 0:55:35.000
<v Speaker 1>to say all the warning signs I wouldn't put on

0:55:35.080 --> 0:55:37.719
<v Speaker 1>not a gambling man, but if I did gamble, I

0:55:37.719 --> 0:55:39.960
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have put money on you getting through without going

0:55:40.000 --> 0:55:42.200
<v Speaker 1>to prison or dying.

0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:45.439
<v Speaker 2>That seemed to be the trek creep that your life

0:55:45.560 --> 0:55:47.640
<v Speaker 2>was on. But I've got close to both of them.

0:55:47.640 --> 0:55:48.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm very close to both of them.

0:55:49.320 --> 0:55:52.319
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we'll talk about that when we get back, and

0:55:52.360 --> 0:55:53.600
<v Speaker 1>what you're doing with hope and health.

0:55:53.960 --> 0:56:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Sure, jeez, awesome. Thank you. Never k