1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 2: Detective sy aside of life. 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: The average person is never exposed her I spent thirty 4 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: four years as a cop. For twenty five of those years, 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world 8 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: in which I operated. The guests I talk to each 9 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. 10 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: The interviews are raw and honest, just like the people 11 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: I talk to. Some of the content and language might 12 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact 13 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I 14 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: take you into this world. Welcome to another episode of 15 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: I Catch Killers. Today's guest was addicted to heroin for 16 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: twenty two years. He didn't like himself, and he hurt 17 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: people close to him. The person he is now is 18 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: so far removed from that person is hardly recognizable today. 19 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: Our guest, Nick Midgley, is in the studio to talk 20 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: about crime, addiction, love, relationships, masculinity, tattoos, and recovery. Nick Midgley, Welcome, 21 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: to I catch killers. 22 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 2: Thank you man, thanks for having me. 23 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: Now, Nick, you're addicted to heroin for twenty two years. 24 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: It's a long time. 25 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a fair whack, man, it's a fair whack. 26 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 27 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah yeah. How long you been cleaned for? Now? 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: About four and a half years, well clean and sober 29 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 2: four and a half. Yeah. Okay, So it's no alcohol, 30 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 2: no dressing at all anymore. 31 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, And is that and we'll talk more about the 32 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: stuff you do with hope and health. 33 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 2: But is that part of it? 34 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: If you're going to kick one, you've got to kick 35 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: the other or you just fall into bad habits. 36 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 2: Look, I don't think it is necessarily for anyone. But 37 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: I believe that anyone that's got any sort of like, 38 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: you know, history of you know, of trauma and using 39 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: any sort of vice is to sort of cover up 40 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 2: any you know, any undigested living experiences and stuff like that. 41 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 2: I don't think you can use anything to sort of 42 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: like block anything, you know. I think that some people 43 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 2: are just sort of running up for a little while. 44 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: It'll be too hard for a little while, and they 45 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: can sort of return to some sort of you know, 46 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 2: social drinking or social you know, you know, social stuff, but. 47 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: I suppose it's in eight in you if you've got 48 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: that addictive personality or you're relying on it. I've seen 49 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: people not through work. People I know that we're addicted 50 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: to drugs. They kick that, but then they become alcoholics. Yeah, 51 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: that becomes their crutch. Or I've seen others that go 52 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: from drugs and then find religion. 53 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely. Look I mean with me, like 54 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever had so much of an 55 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: alcohol problem, and it's something that sort of doesn't really 56 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 2: sort of like you know, you know that they don't 57 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 2: really enjoy that much, you know, you know, but like 58 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: I just can't guarantee my behavior on the alcohol, you know, 59 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 2: like I do. I do some stupid stuff that you know, 60 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: like I act out of alignment to my values, you know, 61 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 2: Like you know, I've had a history of you know, 62 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: cheating on my partners and you know, all gambling and 63 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 2: you know, just just just doing stupid stuff that I 64 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 2: would never do sober, you know. So like you know, 65 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 2: and also like you know, like I don't think there's 66 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: been any if or very rarely have I put a 67 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 2: needle in my you know, after a period of like 68 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 2: you know, substantial clean time about like you know, having 69 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: sort of alcohol or something something alcohol. 70 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: I see people that say, you know, alcohol is not 71 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: a problem, but every time their life stuffs up. 72 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it starts with drinking. Starts with drinking. 73 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: And now I'm fine and you can speak, speak to 74 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: the person the way they conduct their life, the way 75 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: they go about their business perfect. Then they get on 76 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: the bender and the world turns upside down against that. 77 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. So I mean it's just that simple 78 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 2: for me. My life is so good now. Yeah, I'm 79 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 2: not about to have a drink, but I don't want 80 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: to risk it, you know, not over a beer, you 81 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: know few and if I ended up in the position 82 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: I was in four years ago, start drink, you know, to. 83 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: Start all over again. So tell our listeners who Nick 84 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: Midgeley is. 85 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: What's your what's your your. 86 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: Background and brief of your life, and then more. 87 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 2: Dissect It's pretty complete question. So who's it? Oh mate? 88 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 2: I look, I mean at a at a general level, 89 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 2: I was just a kid from Melbourne that sort of 90 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: you know that they grew up and gravitated the drugs 91 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: really quickly. And at the time I had no idea why, 92 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 2: because I seemed to have come from a decent family, 93 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 2: you know, a decent, decent area and stuff. You know, 94 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 2: my dad was a good provider, you know, spent spend 95 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 2: times at good schools and you know, and and there 96 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 2: was no from an outside perspective, there's no no idea 97 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 2: why it happened, you know, and I sort of lived 98 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 2: in that sort of confusion, like I didn't really know why. 99 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: But yeah, later on from doing you know a lot 100 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 2: of work from on myself, you know, like you know, 101 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 2: it turned out because of you know, my father was 102 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 2: essentially completely absent my whole life. And you know, my 103 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: mother had her own traumas. You know, she went from 104 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 2: a really maternal mother to a complete emotionally shut off mother. 105 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 2: And as a kid, you know, when when you have 106 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: an experience like that from you know, your maternal maternal parents, 107 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 2: when they just emotionally shut off from you, you know, 108 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 2: it has a really you know, traumatic effect on you. 109 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: You know. And and so I mean I've got you know, 110 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 2: so I walked around essentially my teenage years with like 111 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 2: you know, all these abandonment and attachment wounds and stuff 112 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 2: like that, and you know, self medicated that stuff with 113 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: with with heavy drugs. 114 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: Okay, that's how you got into it. Yeah, it's interesting 115 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: you say. And I've heard you in one of the 116 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: many talks that you've done, you talk about your mother's 117 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: trauma when she was a kid, and that into generational trauma, 118 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: how it carries through because you don't fully understand that, 119 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: so you can stand stand back and look back and yeah, right, 120 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: that's what it's about. But it's such formative years as 121 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: a child. 122 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 2: And if if you. 123 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: Said your dad, dad was absent but providing, and then 124 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: your mum shut down emotionally, it can can play with 125 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: a kid's mind. 126 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: Yeah he can. It definitely does. It definitely does, and 127 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 2: it's on a real deep level. And that's the that's 128 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 2: the thing that that I'm glad that I know that 129 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 2: I've got to go through it as well, you know, 130 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 2: because my oldest son will also have similar stuff, you know, 131 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 2: with me raising him on my own and essentially having 132 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 2: to grow up with him, you know, and so he's 133 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: going to have similar stuff. He does have similar stuff, 134 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 2: a bit different, but like you know, like it's good, 135 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 2: it's good that I went through because now I can 136 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: understand it. I can help him through his process too, 137 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: you know, it's yeah. 138 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: It makes sense, and you clearly you look back at 139 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: your life and you're dissecting your life and it gives you. 140 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: It gives you an understanding that you don't necessarily see 141 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: when you're going through it, but and knowing the impact 142 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: that you can have on your job. Now, I'm going 143 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: to ask you up front the tattoos, mate. What firstly, 144 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: when when did you when did you decide to cover 145 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: the body in tattoos? 146 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: Man, I've got my first tattoo at thirteen. It's something 147 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: that's always intrigued me. You know. I had a friend 148 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 2: of a friend's older brother drew some crap on us, 149 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 2: and then I do a lot of cover up work 150 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: and committed myself early and then you know, it just 151 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: got that stage where I just I reached out tipping 152 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: point where you know, I went over halfway and then 153 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: like everything else started to look naked, so I just 154 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 2: went went all out. You know. 155 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: It can become addictive, Yeah I think so, Yeah, I 156 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: think so. 157 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 2: But but all my stuff, like you know, almost us 158 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: my own you know, my own sort of like you know, 159 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: design stuff like my tattles is actually the hardest as well, 160 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: you know, so like I've give them an idea and 161 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: you draw it up for me and stuff like that, 162 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 2: so you know, it's not like a you know, it's 163 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 2: not like a stencil job that I went to Bali 164 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: and you know in two days that's sense of stuff 165 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: on me to everyone else has got to you know, 166 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: it's good advice. Let's get advice to anyone listening. Don't 167 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: get a tattoo. But it's not a good idea. You 168 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 2: might think it's cool, it's like coming back in a 169 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: big tea. Yeah for sure. 170 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: Sure that's covered in tattoos Like that, people would react 171 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: to you differently, like you're a big, strong bloke. You're 172 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: covered in covered in tattoos, and I would imagine you 173 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: get and because it's a podcast, you got the neck tattoos, 174 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: the full sleeve tattoos. Do you get different reactions from 175 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: people or they assume you're a type of person? 176 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: Uh yeah, look, yeah I think I do. I think 177 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 2: I do sometimes, but like I generally, you know, it 178 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: generally doesn't bother me so much anymore. You know, I 179 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 2: used to really sort of take things personally the way 180 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 2: people would react to me, and you know, like I 181 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 2: walked around my whole child would assuming I was getting judged, 182 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 2: you know, whether I was, I wasn't. You know, I 183 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: lived in you know, I lived in fear of what 184 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: people thought of me. I need a validation from other people. 185 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: The reality is mane you know, like I you know, 186 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: like I mean, I liked tattoos. I work for myself, 187 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 2: I don't, you know, don't it's sort of met up 188 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 2: to anyone else's standards. 189 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: You're not working in the bank, all right, No, that's right, 190 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: that's right. 191 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 2: You know, is there a story to them? Yeah? Yeah, 192 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: I mean yeah, you know, like it starts off with like, 193 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 2: you know, all sort of you know, you can see 194 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 2: sort of like a criminal pass on my back and 195 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 2: stuff like that, and sort of now I sort of 196 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 2: merge into more of a spiritual thing. Okay. We all evolved. Yeah, 197 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 2: that's rights, right, we all evolved. 198 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about your your childhood. First up, where 199 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: did you grow up? 200 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 2: I grew up in Melbourne, as in the city of Melbourne. 201 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and when you got into drugs early and I 202 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: think I heard that you were you were using heroin 203 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: at thirteen. 204 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: Or yeah, yeah, injecting, injecting, Yeah, yeah, you're still at school? Yeah, 205 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 2: explain how that it's mate. It's quite funny. Like, actually, 206 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: I I haven't been diagnosed with add or or anything, 207 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 2: you know, but I always struggled at school. And my 208 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: oldest got diagnosed with a d D. And when when 209 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 2: I took him to the pediatrician, he was rattling off 210 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: all the all the symptoms of a d D, and 211 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 2: they all resonated with me, every single one. I ever 212 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 2: really know what it was. I didn't know what it was, 213 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: and like, you know, and I'm not going to get 214 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: diagnosed now because like I've learned to live with it 215 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: and around it, and like, but you know, I struggled 216 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 2: to digest information school. Like I used to go to school. 217 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: I used to feel dumb because I couldn't I couldn't 218 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 2: really understand what was going on. Like I could read, 219 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 2: I just couldn't digest the information I was reading. Uh. 220 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 2: And when I found Heroin, you know, it's like just 221 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: my mind just relaxed and I was able just to 222 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 2: like focus on what I was doing. Like, you know, 223 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 2: I I honestly thought that like I'd found the holy 224 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 2: Grail you know of like you know, of of of 225 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 2: of substance, and yeah, I thought, if I can use it, 226 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 2: because I thought people were like you know, you know, 227 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 2: like you know, junkies were like you know, predisposition to 228 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: become junkies, and it came from like, you know, really 229 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 2: shitty backgrounds and stuff like which I didn't. I had 230 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 2: a bit of ego even back then, you know, And 231 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 2: and for a long time, I dabbled, like I didn't. 232 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 2: I didn't actually have a habit till I was, you know, 233 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 2: fifteen or sixteen. Like I dabbled, you know, I used 234 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 2: it regularly for you for quite a few years, you know, 235 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 2: and I was able to get like, you know, quite 236 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 2: a lot of school work done from from and you 237 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 2: could still function. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah mate. Most people 238 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 2: didn't know I was using until until about sixteen, you know, 239 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: like you know, my my, my mum and my dad 240 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 2: found out because I ran away from boarding school and 241 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: they went up there to grab my stuff and empty 242 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: my closets and stuff, and I found using paraphernalia in 243 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 2: there in my school blazer. You know. But like you know, 244 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 2: I think most people didn't know because I had just 245 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 2: so much shame around a lot. I didn't told people 246 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 2: and talk to people and stuff, so most people didn't 247 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 2: know that, you know, that that had any sort of 248 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: like you know, drug problem outside a bit of a 249 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 2: choof problem or something until I was about sixteen. 250 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm interested in the mindset like you would have 251 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: even at that tender age, you would have heard the 252 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: warnings about hero and you know, you had one hit 253 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: and you're hooked and all that. I've spoken to a 254 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: lot of people that think, yeah, that's for the other guy. 255 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: I'm a bit different, I'm a bit special. I can 256 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: control it. Is that that the thought process you I. 257 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 2: Think, yeah, it was what I had. But actually, you know, 258 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: from now working with a lot of other people in 259 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 2: addiction to it's a really common thing, you know, like 260 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 2: it's you know, a lot of people, a lot of 261 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 2: people feel like that. A lot of people feel like, 262 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 2: you know, made the amount of times you've heard about 263 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 2: someone on a you know, on a Bucks party or 264 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: something like, you know, have a you know, someone brings 265 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 2: out a crack pipe and you know, and they have 266 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 2: a few, you know, a few puffs on a pipe 267 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 2: and mate, you know, you know, a year and a 268 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 2: half later, they've lost their families and stuff like that. 269 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: I've heard them say they're chasing that high again. Yeah, 270 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 1: so you for it, but you're chasing it and before 271 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: you realize that you are what you thought you never 272 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: would be. 273 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was a really scary because you know, 274 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: that was a really scary time for me. I think 275 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,719 Speaker 2: I think I was about fifteen, you know, like you know, 276 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: when when I realized it got me. You know, like 277 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 2: I had this at this moment where a friend of mine. 278 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 2: I was talking to a friend of mine about like, 279 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 2: you know, not being asleep well and like, you know, 280 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: you know, I was feeling a bit nauseous lately and stuff, 281 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 2: you know, and he's going, mate, it's because you're hanging 282 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 2: out like that's that's that's a smack it's got you know. 283 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 2: I was like, oh fuck, yeah, right, Okay, maybe I've 284 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 2: been pushing a bit hard. So in my head I thought, 285 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 2: you know, I'll just stop, you know, and then when 286 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: I actually tried, I just couldn't. 287 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: So virtually, and there's a cautionary tale the people that 288 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: go down that path. You think you're not addicted. I 289 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: think you can step away. It's just a matter of 290 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: I'm choosing not to at this stage. But then before 291 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: you realize that you're addicted. 292 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that choice. Yeah, And then you actually you 293 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 2: actually try, then you realize, like it's got a it's 294 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: got a I mean, Heroin's got the physical pool. It's 295 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 2: got obviously the physical withdrawals as well, but it's also 296 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 2: a mental pool as well. And the second the second 297 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: the mental pool. The mental pool triggers the physical pool, 298 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 2: you know, so like you know, if you think about it, 299 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, your body starts to crave it 300 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 2: and withdraw from it. You know. 301 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: So breaking that down, you're saying, saying that mental drive 302 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: to to have a hit, Yeah, then you're physically reacting 303 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: it because it's in your mind. 304 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, for example, though, it took me like two 305 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: three years from my first shot to develop a habit. Now, 306 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 2: if I have a couple of patatine for it, or 307 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 2: anything with a bit of opiates in it, like my 308 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 2: receptors just go crazy and I start like, you know, 309 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 2: we're drawing straight away, you know, like you know, like 310 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 2: I don't take any opiates because like it's you know, 311 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: like of my name, my you know, all my receptors 312 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 2: are so sensitive to that stuff now, so I'll just 313 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: stay away from it. All. 314 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: Okay, how did you afford it at that age? 315 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: Well, I mean I because I had a school uniform. 316 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 2: I mean in a few different ways, they had a 317 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 2: school uniform. So someone that was moving quite a bit 318 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 2: to all the you know, all the crack houses back then, 319 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 2: you know, there's a gap week the Hollywood, the Regal, 320 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 2: the beach house and stuff that was just sort of 321 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 2: all around some kilder and stuff like that. And that'd 322 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 2: just get me to move a little bit because I 323 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 2: had a school uniform, none whatever suspecting, you know. And 324 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 2: and and so I did a little bit of that 325 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 2: sometimes on weekends, you know when when when when the 326 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 2: working girls were getting getting pulled up and robbed and 327 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 2: stuff like that, you know, the whole money for them 328 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 2: for just a little rock here and there. You know, 329 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 2: you know, when I when I was under eighteen, like 330 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 2: I used to do a lot of crime, used to 331 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 2: do a lot of breaking enders and stuff like that. 332 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 2: And but yeah, look you know, but I was you know, 333 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 2: like you know, I did all my my crime pretty 334 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 2: much under eighteen, you know, because like I really, you know, 335 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 2: I was so fun I was so fearful of that 336 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 2: that life, like I was in it because I had 337 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: a habit. But like I was so fucking terrified the 338 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: whole time I was. I was using at that age 339 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: when I was when I was seventeen, I got taken 340 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 2: over to Sicily by a mentor. He showed me how 341 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 2: to work and taught me a couple of trades and 342 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 2: stuff like that. And I didn't necessarily get rid of 343 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: the drug problem, but like I was able to sort of, 344 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 2: you know, live live a live a life of a 345 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: working working man, and you know, and then drive down 346 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 2: to rich mendal footscrade, go get my drugs and come 347 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: back to you know. 348 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: Well it's a normal life and we'll go further into it. 349 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: But it was almost like you were a functioning heroin addict. 350 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: You were doing some work as you got older. 351 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, as I was seventeen. 352 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, before we leave your childhood, so you're a young fifteen, 353 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: sixteen or whatever. And when you said the working girl, 354 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: so sex workers and they were, you were holding some 355 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: stuff them. 356 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 2: You get a bit of it was holy money. I 357 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 2: was holding money for them and so they wouldn't get robbed. 358 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 2: And then they'd give me that, you know, when they 359 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 2: got on, they broke off a little rock for me 360 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 2: or something like that. You know, So I mean, it's 361 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 2: just stuff like that. Look, I mean, just like there's 362 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 2: a couple of things that just happened. Is you know 363 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 2: when I was a kid, you know, like you know, 364 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 2: like you didn't trust anyone. I remember, like you know, 365 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 2: when we used to do like breaking inns and stuff 366 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 2: like that. You know, one of us was sort of 367 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 2: like you know, you know, standing there, you know, stolen 368 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 2: car at the front, and every one would sort of 369 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 2: go in and you and grab what they want and 370 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,719 Speaker 2: stuff like that. You know, but neither of you trusted 371 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 2: either of you. You know, Like I remember, like, you know, 372 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 2: if I used to go into the house, you know, 373 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: there was a wallet on the kitchen table, I'd grab 374 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 2: the cash and that would just be fair game for 375 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 2: me going in and stuff like that. And among fooves. No, 376 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 2: that's right, that's right. And I remember this one time, 377 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: you know, like a little coey, you know, I used 378 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 2: to do a lot of these with you know, like 379 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 2: we just didn't trust each other, and I felt something 380 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 2: was like fucking was off, you know, and we put 381 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 2: up at seven eleven. Because back in the day, when 382 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 2: you get your prepaid credit, it's got can you go 383 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 2: in and get some credits and get on you know, 384 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 2: was like, yeah, I'll go in and just give me 385 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 2: the keys, you know, because I just assume that he's 386 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 2: going to drive off in the car all that stuff 387 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 2: and all stuff, and he's gone show me your pockets, 388 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 2: you know, so he like I knew he was going 389 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 2: to run off, and he knew I had stuff in 390 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 2: my pockets. You know. No, I just had this fucking 391 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 2: that was a big realization that just living a fucking 392 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 2: really lonely life where I didn't trust anyone around me. 393 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: Were you're still with your family, we're still living no none. 394 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,959 Speaker 2: At that stage, my mom kicked me out I think 395 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 2: at thirteen or fourteen, fourteen, I think, and my dad 396 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 2: at fifteen, you know when she she kicked me out 397 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: to my dad's and then my dad not long So 398 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 2: where were you putting your head down? Uh? Well, a 399 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 2: lot of time the mentor took me over to Sicily. Yeah, 400 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 2: you know, but I the stolen cars as well, just 401 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 2: just wherever, you know, or or just stay up all 402 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 2: night as well, you know, like just but yeah, you know, 403 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 2: there's always like there was always you know, like some 404 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 2: sort of little little halfway crack house I could stay 405 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 2: out too, and like, you know, he gives upon a 406 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 2: little bit of a rock, you know, through one of 407 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 2: your urns or whatever. 408 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: It's a pretty treacherous and dangerous world at that age, 409 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,959 Speaker 1: like to be hanging around in those those environments. 410 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, the reason I was so scared 411 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 2: is because, like obviously because of my age, I was 412 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 2: really vulnerable. You know, I was really vulnerable because I mean, 413 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 2: you know, when you when you're around drugs like heroin 414 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 2: and back then is when when ice was first coming out, 415 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 2: was coming out from the Indonesian they used to call 416 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 2: it shaboo and it was first coming out, and and 417 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 2: you know, when you when you're that age, you know, 418 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 2: you're really vulnerable. Man. These people are really fucking desperate, 419 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 2: you know, and like you know, and you know, I 420 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: mean when I when I was a bit old and 421 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 2: I'd go in and stuff like, I didn't have that 422 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: sort of same fear around it, like people then sort 423 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 2: of like stand over me. But people saw me coming 424 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 2: from a mile the way back then, you know, and 425 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 2: you know, just just you know, certain stuff happened. 426 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: Just just did anyone try and steer you in the 427 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: right direction that we'll talk about your mental before we 428 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: get on to get on to your mental anyone like family, relatives, 429 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: school teachers, anyone, just grab hold of you and go mate, 430 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: what are you doing? 431 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 2: Mate? No, I'm not really, I'm not not in the 432 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 2: way of like I mean, my parents were just lost me, 433 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 2: you know that. I mean that day, their own shit 434 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 2: going on there, their own separations, and they had all 435 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 2: their own stuff going on to I think they really 436 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 2: worried about my siblings as well. I think that sort 437 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 2: of the chalking up as a bit lost lost calls. 438 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 2: Let's just worry about what younger siblings, older brother, younger 439 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 2: younger sister. 440 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: So who's this mentor that took you over the sicily? 441 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: What was that relationship? He was a bit of antory 442 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: of someone that comes from Sicily. 443 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a bit of a knock about around Melbourne. See, 444 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 2: you know back in the days when you know, when 445 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 2: when when you use smacking, no crim trusted you anymore. 446 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 2: So he sort of got like his run was over 447 00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 2: so to speak when I met him, and he is 448 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 2: just you know, essentially since it became a user. But like, hey, 449 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 2: he thought school was really important and he knew that 450 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 2: I was doing it, and you knew that I was going. Okay, 451 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 2: that so you know, I met him when I was 452 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 2: about sixteen, you know, and he's going, mate, look I'm 453 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 2: going to go Sisly to get clean, you know, and 454 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 2: he's gone, I want to take you. Let's just finish 455 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 2: the school had about six or seven months of school 456 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 2: left or something, and I said, when you finish your school, 457 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 2: we'll go overseas, you know, and I'll take you over there. 458 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 2: And he's gonna make you or you won't live till 459 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 2: you're twenty one if you live like this, you know. 460 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 2: And so, okay, I didn't actually think he was going 461 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 2: to do it, you know, like I know what was 462 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 2: in it for him? Nothing, just no, no, I mean look, 463 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 2: I mean he was one of the guys that used 464 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 2: to get me in a sort of run dope around 465 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 2: for maybe had a bit of a conscience, and you know, 466 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 2: he felt like, fuck, I've you know, I've. It didn't 467 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 2: start me on the year, but my habit certainly fucking 468 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 2: went right up because of what I was doing for him. 469 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 2: And you know, the guy that he was working with, 470 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 2: you know. 471 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: So and so he was he was addicted to and 472 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: he wanted to go clean himself up. 473 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 2: But go back. 474 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: I assume he's from there originally or yeah, family over there. 475 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: So he said you finished school, yeah, and then I'll 476 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: take you over the sicily Yeah and okay, tell us 477 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: about that. 478 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 2: That experience that was that was an incredible experience. Man, 479 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 2: that was incredible. That's I mean, I learned they got 480 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 2: such a big they've got such a hard work ethic 481 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 2: over there. Like when when I when I first went 482 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 2: over there, like he was a really hard man. You know, 483 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 2: he was a really hard man. And when I first 484 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 2: went over there, I really struggled because you were so 485 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 2: hard on me, and like you know, I was so 486 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 2: like you know, emotionally mentally weak. Then you know, like 487 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 2: a day's hard work for me, it seemed like a 488 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 2: fucking death sentence. You know what type of work we 489 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 2: do mainly farm work or like you know, I worked 490 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 2: as a as a labor and a steel factory and 491 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 2: stuff like you know, and but like the are the 492 00:22:54,720 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: long days, man, like like you know, worked very hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 493 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 2: especially especially on the farms. You know. You you you 494 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 2: arrive on on site or on the farm, you know, 495 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 2: just before the sun's comes up and the second it's 496 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 2: light enough to be able to see, you start working 497 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 2: and you work until you can't see what you're doing anymore. 498 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 2: You know. 499 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: Did that you get off the drugs when you were 500 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: over there? 501 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, Look, I mean I still drunk. I had 502 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 2: the occasional bit of coke and stuff like that, you know, 503 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 2: but you know, like I was so so broke, you know, 504 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 2: like you know, like if I if I got on 505 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 2: the cozonly because someone that had it would give me 506 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 2: a couple of lines or something. You know, Like I 507 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 2: was earning about like you know, one hundred year old 508 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 2: a week, you know, when I was seventeen, it is 509 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 2: about what equivalent of one hundred and fifty bucks a week, 510 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 2: you know, and I work in my ass off too, 511 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 2: like you know, so that was like the apprentice wage 512 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 2: back then. 513 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: And there's a did you did your family worry about you? 514 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: Or did you have anyone back here going? 515 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 2: It was a one way ticket, yeah, because my dad 516 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 2: paid for the ticket. He gave me a one way 517 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 2: ticket and that's no shit. And when I actually wanted 518 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 2: to come back, he didn't let me. Easy, mate, You 519 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 2: can come back when you when you earn it, you know, 520 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 2: as okay, yeah, you. 521 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: Know, And how long did you spend over there? 522 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 2: Three years in total? Yeeah, Yeah, yeah it was. It 523 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 2: was on and off a bit. I came back a 524 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 2: couple of times and relapse and quickly went back over 525 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 2: you know, like I just yeah, you know, and then 526 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 2: it just got those stage where you know, I thought 527 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 2: I might live here because like you know, I just 528 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,239 Speaker 2: just couldn't do Melbourne, you know. 529 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, when Okay, so how old you have? 530 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 2: Three years? 531 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: Seventeen you're looking twenty twenty one. Yeah, you've come back here, 532 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: so straight back to Melbourne? 533 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 2: Yeahs, I went straight back to Melbourne. I think I 534 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 2: think it lasted a few months before I got back 535 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 2: on it. And then when I was can I I 536 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 2: stop you there? 537 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: Nick, Just tell me the mindset there, like you've gone 538 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: to all the trouble of going overseas to tidy tidy 539 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: year ACKed up? Yeap, you've come back and you've yeah, 540 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: you lasted for a couple of months. Were you lying 541 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: to yourself for deluding yourself and just going ah, I'll 542 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: just have a taste. 543 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 2: And I'll be right. What was nah? I think I 544 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 2: think every every time I came back from sicily, i'd 545 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 2: come back with the intention not to ever use again, 546 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 2: you know, And I feel really strong when I was 547 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 2: over there. But Melbourne, Melbourne itself is for me, it's 548 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: a really dangerous city for me to be in, you know, 549 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: like a a I've like I've had a shot and 550 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 2: like every you know, every toil in the city streets. Yeah, 551 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 2: I know the streets. I know all the areas. I 552 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 2: know who to look for, like and the thing is 553 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 2: for me to get on now up where I live, 554 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 2: you know. I mean there's all the stuff. It's heroin 555 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 2: as Ayes is all that stuff there. But for me 556 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 2: to go get on up there, I would have to 557 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: call up a few people and to find out who's 558 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 2: not doing too well, chase it down or you know, 559 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 2: go go like you know, bump into a couple of 560 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 2: sort of like rough looking people and you know, try 561 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 2: to sort of wheezer my way in a bit and stuff. 562 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 2: Whereas in Melbourne, I'll get one bad thought, I know 563 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 2: exactly where to go, and I'm going to get on quick, 564 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 2: you know, and so like you know, there's there's not 565 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 2: much of it. Yeah, there's not much buffets. You know, 566 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,479 Speaker 2: if I ever thought of using now, the process of 567 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 2: actually getting on on is big enough for me now 568 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 2: for some bit of sense to to slip into a 569 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 2: little gap and just go. 570 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying, Like, if it's there readily accessible, Yeah, 571 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,959 Speaker 1: it's easy. You could just have this thought in your 572 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: head and you're on it straight away. The environment you're 573 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: in now, it's not not that simple. So how long 574 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: did you say? In Melbourne? 575 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 2: For? Not long? Not long? I and I get myself 576 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: in a bit of trouble. What was that about? Between 577 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 2: between them? I made of mind and me. You know, 578 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 2: we went this idea that you know, it's a little 579 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 2: bit of coke and a bit of psychosis. You know, 580 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 2: we flushed it and you know, and we owed a 581 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 2: bit of money. We had, we had money coming in, 582 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 2: but it was a while away and I just needed 583 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 2: to get away for a bit, you know. 584 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: Talk us, talk us through that, because I think, so 585 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: you're using and then all of a sudden you're becoming 586 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: paranoid or yeah whatever, and you've flushed. You're thinking the 587 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 1: cops are coming through the door. 588 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, may I was. I was never going to be 589 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 2: a successful drug dealer because of moment, you know, because 590 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 2: I use I used drugs too heavily, you know, and 591 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 2: so maybe if I've got if I've got a fucking 592 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 2: bunch of coke. You know, I'm not just gonna sit 593 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 2: there and wait for people to buy, like I'll be 594 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 2: using it while before they come. 595 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: So when you flushed that, you're obviously going you've got some. 596 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: You got it on tick and you add the money 597 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: back to the people you got it from, but you 598 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: ain't got the drugs anymore. 599 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well you had money owed to me too. 600 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,719 Speaker 2: I mean, that wasn't the only reason. I just I 601 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 2: had to I had to get out of town, just 602 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 2: because my whole life was just fucking falling apart, you know. 603 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 2: So I frond of the people I had the money to. 604 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 2: I said, look, I'm not going anywhere. I'm getting out 605 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 2: for a bit. I've got I've got this money coming in. 606 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 2: I just got to just just fucking trust me. And 607 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 2: and so, and I asked my mom, who kicked me out, 608 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 2: as I said before, as a teenager who moved to 609 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 2: Byron Bay, probably to get away from me, to be honest, 610 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 2: And I beg there, I said, Mom, I've just got 611 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 2: to get away from here, you know, like my life's 612 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 2: just fucking falling apart. And and she said that, you 613 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 2: know she's going, well, if you come up here, you 614 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 2: come up on the on you know, on the condition 615 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 2: that you enroll into this rehab up here, which is 616 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 2: the Buttery my dad like, and she's gone. They got 617 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 2: like a six or seven month weightlist, so you got 618 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 2: to you gotta call before you come up to get 619 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 2: on the weight list, and then you've got to call 620 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,239 Speaker 2: every week when you're on there. And and so I 621 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 2: called when I came up, and then yeah, I had 622 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,239 Speaker 2: no intention to actually actually go there, you know, like 623 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 2: I just thought, mate, it's six seven months and a 624 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 2: time for for me to get my shit together where 625 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 2: I can come back, you know. For for whatever reason, 626 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 2: I always felt like I had to be back in Melbourne. 627 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 2: Like I didn't think I could actually break away from it. 628 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 2: I didn't think I could break away from it, you know. 629 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 2: I didn't think I wanted to either, you know, because 630 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 2: when I first came to Byron Bay, I didn't see 631 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 2: it as a beautiful place it is now. I saw 632 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 2: it was a really fucking boring place that like weird 633 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 2: people went and stuff. I was. It was my perception 634 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 2: of it because I was so I was so like, 635 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 2: you know, yeah, you know, in the city of Melbourne. 636 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 2: I was so like you know, like I MESSI into 637 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 2: that lifestyle and stuff and and mate, look, eventually I 638 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 2: stayed there long enough that made that that place. Something 639 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 2: happens in that place, man, Like you know, even today 640 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 2: it's it's not my little spiritual home. And every time 641 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 2: a lot sort of like apploads on me, I always 642 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 2: end up going back there. And Mate, just over time, 643 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 2: just over that like six month period made something shifted 644 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 2: him here, you know. And a friend of mine who 645 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 2: who I met up there, he ended up being a 646 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 2: training partner of mine, you know, and he went through 647 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 2: that buttery program, you know, and he stayed up there 648 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 2: after that. And he said, Mate, look, just won't you 649 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 2: just go for five weeks? You know? And if after 650 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 2: five yeah, but he's going in after five weeks. If 651 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 2: you don't want to go, you call me, I'll pick 652 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 2: you up. I'll take you the airport. You can go 653 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: back down in Melbourne. And Mate, I respected him enough 654 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 2: to you know, I thought, yeah, I can do five weeks, 655 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 2: you know, Like you know, I was clean, I was sober, 656 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 2: wasn't hanging out, so I thought, why not, you know, 657 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 2: And you know, I think he knew that I needed 658 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 2: five weeks there to be able to like to be 659 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 2: able to like, you know, make an informed decision, because 660 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 2: I mean I went there and I had people throwing 661 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 2: me under the bus but not doing my jobs, and like, yeah, 662 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 2: in my head, I thought I was just a bunch 663 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 2: of fucking dogs. You know, I fuck this, I'm not 664 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 2: staying here and just winges and like you know. But 665 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 2: like after five weeks, like you know, I had this 666 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 2: realization because I already had a son at that stage, 667 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 2: you know, I know my son was you know, three 668 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 2: or four years old. How old were you? I was 669 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 2: twenty when he was born, twenty one when he was born. 670 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: Okay, so you got to kick with you with the 671 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: lady or no, no. 672 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 2: Were Yeah, look we're only lasted when when he was born, 673 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 2: like wh only lasted about a year year and a half. 674 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 2: And the only reason we have to probably go that 675 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 2: year and a half was because you know, she'd been 676 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 2: pregnant with him, you know, like we were, you know, 677 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 2: we were fuck will never go three other at all, 678 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: you know, you know. But when I was at when 679 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 2: I was at the rehabit, I knew I had a kid. 680 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 2: I had to say that realization. It was about four 681 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 2: or five weeks in you know, I thought, Okay, well 682 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 2: that's that's my time that I promise you know this 683 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 2: this guy you know, you know, but like I've got 684 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 2: a maybe I could do something better with my life, 685 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 2: just maybe, you know, maybe maybe there's fucking something else 686 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 2: I can do. 687 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: You know, were you working, like where was the money? 688 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: Not when you're in the program, but where were you 689 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: making your money from? 690 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 2: All that was in Melbourne? Yeah, in Melbourne I ended 691 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 2: up working as like a pave and a block layer, 692 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 2: and they were on all the the you know, on 693 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 2: the Union sides and EBA rates, and I was mad. 694 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 2: I was making really good money as a really young kid, 695 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: you know when I say young kid, like as a 696 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one year old, twenty two year old getting 697 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 2: an adults wage and yeah, yeah yeah, from working in 698 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 2: sicily from like in one hundred and fifty bucks to 699 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 2: you know, bringing home to grand a week, you know, 700 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 2: was that going to drug store? Yeah, all of it, yeah, 701 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 2: all of it back then, Like you know, I don't 702 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 2: really nice apartment. I was renting and stuff like that. 703 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 2: But back then rent was only like twenty fifty or 704 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 2: three hundred bucks a week, you know, you know, and 705 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 2: like I was on my own, so like, you know, 706 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 2: I wouldn't even cook. I had to eat out every day. 707 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 2: You know. My outgoings were about five hundred and six 708 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 2: hundred bucks a week, and then every other cent went 709 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 2: to you know, went to backo on drugs. Yeah. Yeah. 710 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: When did you get into your fitness side of things? 711 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 2: Probably twenty twenty twenty one, you know, twenty one, I 712 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 2: mean like yeah, I mean I had little, little little 713 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 2: moments or you know, all three, you know, but like yeah, 714 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 2: twenty I had my first five at twenty one, you know, 715 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 2: came from it. At twenty you got got into boxing. Yeah, yeah, 716 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 2: it was a boxing Yeah yeah. 717 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: It doesn't sort of quate the type of training you 718 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: need to box with putting shit in your body, like yeah. 719 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, how did you how did you juggle those? 720 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: Because they're sort of polar opposite. 721 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 2: Well man, not well, And that's probably reflected on my 722 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 2: boxing career as well. Like you know, like I just 723 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 2: you know, like I could fight, you know, and I'd 724 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 2: be willing to fight and stuff like that. You know, 725 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 2: So like you, I had a natural bit of aggression. 726 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 2: You had enough ticker and balls to be able to like, 727 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 2: you know, if I hold your hands hold my hands 728 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 2: up mixed with people and stuff. But man, like you know, 729 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 2: you know, you know, if I was training or fighting 730 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 2: an eight round fight and stuff like that, you know, 731 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 2: like you know, there the the you know, the my 732 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 2: lastle factors would come back for me. You know, you 733 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 2: know I feel a bit tight around my last fight. 734 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 2: That is probably my most important fight to my last fight, 735 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 2: like I trained for it in rehab and heroin overdose. 736 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 2: Like before I went around where I couldn't I couldn't 737 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 2: walk for two weeks, you know, and like you know, 738 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,719 Speaker 2: like I got myself fucking to a stage where I 739 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 2: came out of rehab to two weeks sparring out of rehab, 740 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 2: and then I jumped in and had a fight. And 741 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 2: you know I went in there after after thirty seconds 742 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 2: because I was smoking. I was smoking for thirty cigarettes 743 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 2: a day, and reality, my whole body went all lactic 744 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 2: and stuff. You know when I when I walked out 745 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 2: a five, and though like I lost, and and I 746 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 2: lost against someone you know, like a tough, a tough journeyman. 747 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 2: You know that I knew it was going to press me. 748 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 2: I had to be at my fucking best at and 749 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 2: you hadn't put in no. I mean I put in 750 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 2: as best I could, you know, But there was another 751 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 2: there's another realization. My last old factors fucking just got something. 752 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 2: I started to because this this is one that this 753 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 2: is this is an experience that I had through my 754 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 2: boxing that was real pivotal for the rest of my life. 755 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 2: Like I had, I was sparring Barry Hall for his 756 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 2: for his fight against Paul Gallant, you know, and and 757 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 2: Barry Hall's trainer and the promoters and stuff like that. I said, 758 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 2: if you, if you, if you're willing to spa and 759 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 2: for his fight and stuff like, we'll get you on 760 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 2: the undergard. I was like, yeah, beautiful, Like you know 761 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 2: I was, I was looking to sort of get fit, 762 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 2: you don't have a fight, and you know, it was 763 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 2: a good as a fucking beautiful opportunity, beautiful venue and stuff. 764 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 2: So I thought, yeah, well, you know, why not. And 765 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 2: then a couple I think it was about a week 766 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,879 Speaker 2: a week before that fight, I got offered an Australasian 767 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 2: title shot in New Zealand if I'd won that fight, 768 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 2: you know, and uh in Itzona. It was only a 769 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 2: few weeks after the fight I had, you know, and 770 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 2: and I was like fuck you because in my head, 771 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 2: like when I finished a fight, I want to bend after, 772 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 2: you know. That was my reward system, you know. And 773 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 2: and I was married at a time, and uh and 774 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,439 Speaker 2: I won that fight on the undercart of the Paul 775 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 2: Gallan Barry Hall fight. And my wife, my then wife, 776 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 2: she asked me, she's going, what are you going to 777 00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 2: do because we had plans to go have a few 778 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 2: drinks and around. You won that fight, but you got 779 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 2: another shot in two weeks time, two weeks time, and 780 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 2: she said, what are you going to do? You're gonna 781 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 2: You're want to drink. You know, you have a couple 782 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 2: of dreams, like yeah, we'll just go after a couple, 783 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 2: you know. And uh so we did, and you know, 784 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 2: we gotta, we've gotta. We've got a bag of coke. 785 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,800 Speaker 2: And I finished the bag. And this was in Melbourne's 786 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 2: at Margaret Cordreina in Melbourne, some miles stomping grounds, you know. 787 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 2: And then I went out, Man, I've got an eight ball. 788 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 2: I found a couple of fits and you know, and 789 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 2: and I went back and I put an eight ball 790 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 2: of coke in my arm. After not fucking one hundred 791 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 2: and fifty needle marks in my fucking ar because coke 792 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 2: on your last you know, fifteen minutes, you know, and 793 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 2: I had it through. I just kept on fucking booting 794 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 2: up my arm. I remember my wife came out of 795 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 2: the room like six hours later after a sleep, and 796 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 2: she looked me out. I was fucking leaning over the 797 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 2: fridge and she's just going She wasn't upset, like, she 798 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 2: wasn't angry, like she's just just again disappointed. She's not 799 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 2: even disappointed, She's just like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, 800 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 2: you know, what what what is wrong with you? You know? 801 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:04,839 Speaker 2: I mean I look, I was just like, oh my god, 802 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 2: who am I? What am I doing? And anyway, so 803 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 2: I still took the fight over in New Zealand. But 804 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 2: I remember I remember warming up for that fight. It 805 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,800 Speaker 2: was an Australasian title shot. You know, it was against 806 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 2: a tough New Zealand Like I knew, I knew I 807 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 2: had to be my very best, and I was so 808 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 2: fucking disappointed in myself and I'm warming up for the 809 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 2: fight and just thinking, fuck, you really let yourself down. 810 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 2: You know, it's this sabotaging behavior I have my whole 811 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 2: fucking life, you know, Yeah, and I made them work 812 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 2: for you know, I think it was like three or 813 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 2: four rounds before it got stopped, you know, but I 814 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 2: made them work, and like you know, it was you know, 815 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,479 Speaker 2: I was competitive in that fight, and I thought to myself, Fuck, 816 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 2: you know, you fucked that up for yourself. You know 817 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 2: you could have won that fucking fight. And you know 818 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 2: you fucked that up for yourself. And like, you know, 819 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, that's happened. Now, I'll chalk that up 820 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,959 Speaker 2: as a as a learning experience, but never again in life. 821 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 2: And I'm gonna I want to sabotage that stuff, okay. 822 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: And I take what you're saying there. It's a metaphor 823 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: for life and something that you can learn. And I 824 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: think I get into a bit of trouble on eye 825 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 1: catch killers because I love talking boxing stories, but it's 826 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: just it's fascinating. But I think it is so many 827 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: valuable life lessons to learn because you can't cheat it 828 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: in the in the boxing ring. If you've taken shortcuts, 829 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: you're going to get found out in the boxing ring. 830 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: And if you could have that realization in life, we're 831 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: not just looking at boxing, We're looking. 832 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 2: At the way you approach your life. 833 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: Like if you're taking the shortcuts and you're not fully committing, 834 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: you're going to be found out. And that's is that 835 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 1: the lesson that yeah you got in that situation. 836 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 2: Well, yeah you'll be fair found out. In the boxing ring, 837 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 2: you get found out. But like you know, in the 838 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 2: rest of life, you know, you just don't. You just 839 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 2: don't get to experienced life that well. You know, maybe 840 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:50,760 Speaker 2: if you're going to start a business in the second 841 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 2: it gets a little bit harder you back off. Men, know, 842 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 2: you spend all your money on like you know, the 843 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 2: business has failed, you know, and every business that I've 844 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 2: ever had has only done well after that. A little 845 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 2: bit of pressure that you feel or you know, if 846 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 2: you jump into a relationship and you have one foot 847 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 2: in and one foot out in that way, if it 848 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,840 Speaker 2: doesn't you know, you know, you're the first of argument. 849 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 2: You're just like, oh fuck there, somehow I never really 850 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 2: loved her anyway or whatever. You all you do was 851 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 2: robbing yourself of like, you know, a good experience. 852 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, I see what you're saying there with a relationship 853 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: that you're not giving it a real go. But if 854 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: you don't fully commit, you ah, well it just it 855 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,360 Speaker 1: didn't work out because you haven't haven't committed to it. 856 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: But yeah, in the same same with with business. So 857 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 1: all these these are lessons lessons in life. So for 858 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: the naysayers on eye catch killers that we talk about 859 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: boxing all the time, that's because there are some some 860 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: valuable lessons to learn. So when you when you see that, 861 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: do you you would have been disappointed at yourself? That 862 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: was that was a chance to progressing something you're obviously 863 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: passionate about. 864 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, look, I mean boxing for me, 865 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 2: I mean that would have been my limit. You know, 866 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 2: if if I had won Australian title, on Australasian title, 867 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 2: you know, I would have been wrapped. You know that 868 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,880 Speaker 2: that was my like you know, like I want to 869 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 2: stay titled. I was happy with that, but like I 870 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 2: wanted to I would have loved to win a national 871 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 2: or an Australasian title. That would have been, you know, 872 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 2: something I would have thought I've really overachieved yet. That 873 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 2: would have been you know great, you know, but my 874 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 2: boxing for me, I trained myself pretty much or you know, 875 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 2: you know, my last few amateur fights and pretty much 876 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,799 Speaker 2: all my profiles except for one. For me, it was 877 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 2: it was just this fucking escape from myself. 878 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: You know, it make you feel better about yourself, like 879 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 1: doing doing something where you're trying to take some pride 880 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: in in what you're doing. 881 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't even it wasn't even so much the 882 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 2: external stuff. But I think, yeah, I think it was 883 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 2: nice to get the pats on the back from people. 884 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 2: I think it was, you know, But for me, I 885 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 2: was so tortured mentally. I didn't realize this at the time, 886 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 2: you know, like that, And the only time I wasn't 887 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 2: dreading the past or fearful of the future was you know, 888 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 2: when I was fucking boxing, you know, because when someone's 889 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,279 Speaker 2: in front of you trying to hit you, you know, 890 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 2: like you're not focusing on all the all the all 891 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,359 Speaker 2: the shameful things I've done in the past, or all 892 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 2: my doubts are having myself in the future and stuff 893 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 2: like that. You know, you're just that. And then and 894 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 2: after you exert that much energy and you walk out 895 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,319 Speaker 2: the ring, you get big dopamine rush for an hour 896 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 2: or two and I st you know, three hours or 897 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,880 Speaker 2: not about not thinking about me and my ship and 898 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 2: my problems. Mate. Just darkness would come back over me 899 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 2: after that you know, like as I never I never 900 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 2: understood myself. I never knew how to look at myself. 901 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 2: I never took ownership of anything. I didn't know how 902 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,359 Speaker 2: to work through anything. And say, you know, for me, 903 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 2: it was like a little reprieve from this fucking horrible 904 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 2: state of fucking living that I was living in. 905 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: There you touched on something like I and you made 906 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 1: the point like you're not thinking about anything else if 907 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: someone's hitting you in the head and you're thinking about 908 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 1: trying to trying to avoid. 909 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 2: It or return the shot. 910 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,359 Speaker 1: That helped me through doing a homicide detective as long 911 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 1: as I was, And people go, well, what what do 912 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: you do the relax And I go, well, I can 913 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: forget about work at the moment I step into a 914 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: ring and someone's trying to beat the shit out of me. 915 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not thinking. 916 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,879 Speaker 1: About the pressure of the work or the horrible things 917 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 1: that I've seen at work. So I understand that that 918 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 1: is a form of escapism. 919 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's hard to explain that to people that 920 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 2: don't get it. That's one of the reasons now, like 921 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 2: I actually feel I should feel mentally in a much 922 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 2: better place, and physically you feel like I'm a pretty 923 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 2: good shape too. It's like, I don't feel like it's 924 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 2: not that I couldn't fight now. I made the thought of, like, 925 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 2: you know, the thought of me training really hard to 926 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,760 Speaker 2: hurt someone now, or like even you know I desire 927 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 2: to be hit now, isn't there. I think that's because 928 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 2: of like the fucking internal work I've done on myself. Man, 929 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? You know, like it was 930 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 2: something I really needed back then. It's just not It's 931 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 2: just not something that motivates me now. You know. 932 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 1: In one of the one of the podcasts you did 933 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,320 Speaker 1: and some of the stuff I've read about you, you 934 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: made a comment and I think I've captured it. But 935 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,399 Speaker 1: I'd like you to need to love yourself in order 936 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,560 Speaker 1: to heal. And you're talking about you're going the pain 937 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 1: and the boxing ring gave you and escape from all 938 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,479 Speaker 1: the trauma and different stuff that you've been through. What 939 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,399 Speaker 1: what's your view on that? If I if I make 940 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 1: the statement or pulling out stuff that you've said you 941 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 1: need to love yourself to heal? What, what's what's that 942 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: all about? 943 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, look, I just think we need to 944 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 2: love ourselves full stop. And so what what what what 945 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 2: I do. What I mean, what I aid to do 946 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 2: with the rehab things now is to show people pathways 947 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,440 Speaker 2: to learn how to accept themselves and love themselves. But 948 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,319 Speaker 2: you know what I do outside the rehab too, I 949 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 2: do like coaching and stuff I help you do, mentoring 950 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,880 Speaker 2: and stuff like that. And and I've got a process 951 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,919 Speaker 2: that I do with people, one that I've got taken 952 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 2: through as well, which which shows us who we actually are, 953 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 2: like you know, and you know, and who we are, 954 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 2: you know, like outside of our ego, outside of all 955 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,479 Speaker 2: our labels and you know, and and learn to become 956 00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 2: okay with that, excepting that, and learn to love that, 957 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 2: you know, you know, because if if we don't, if 958 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,000 Speaker 2: we don't accept ourselves, man, that just gets projected on 959 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,479 Speaker 2: the outside, and like you know, it affects our lives 960 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 2: in a big way. You know. 961 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: Do you get the sense that there's people that don't 962 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: love themselves? Is self sabotage? 963 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,840 Speaker 2: Yeah? Mate? And I think if most people are really honest, 964 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 2: you know, if you ask most people, do you actually 965 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,320 Speaker 2: love yourself or do you like yourself? Will accept yourself? 966 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 2: If people are really honest, I reckon it'd be in 967 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 2: the ninety percent of people would say they wouldn't, you know, like, 968 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 2: you know, I think there's a real there's a real 969 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:41,319 Speaker 2: discord from from you know, people living as they are, 970 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 2: you know, like you know, and and it can be 971 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,279 Speaker 2: seen by people sort of needing to be part of 972 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 2: the masses and part of the trends and stuff like that, 973 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 2: you know, like you know, and that's a that's a 974 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,319 Speaker 2: big sign of people just being disconnected from who they are, 975 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:54,640 Speaker 2: you know, like when we say to me about the 976 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 2: tattoos and stuff like, like you know, yeah, you can 977 00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,359 Speaker 2: have these these these negative connotations and stuff for that, 978 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,640 Speaker 2: you know, but like you know, like I'm okay with me, 979 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 2: and like, you know, whatever decision I make for me 980 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 2: is okay with me, and stuff like that. Whereas a 981 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,600 Speaker 2: lot of people if like a new new set of 982 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,719 Speaker 2: sneak is coming stuff like that, you know, like they 983 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 2: need they need those or they need to they need 984 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,720 Speaker 2: to drive a certain car to feel a certain way, 985 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 2: and they need to be seen at certain places with 986 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 2: certain people and all that stuff, you know. And like 987 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:29,239 Speaker 2: in a and my validation's nice, Like it's nice. It's 988 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 2: not like I don't like it, It's just I don't 989 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,440 Speaker 2: need it anymore. You know, and I feel like I 990 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 2: feel like that's the that's a separator when you you know, 991 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,400 Speaker 2: I mean, I think there's two types of conflict. You know, 992 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,640 Speaker 2: there's a conflict. There's internal conflict an external conflict. We 993 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,600 Speaker 2: get to choose which one. Ninety percent of people have 994 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 2: their internal conflict where they look for they look to 995 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,400 Speaker 2: be part of the crowd, but then they have to 996 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,280 Speaker 2: live with internal conflict that says you're fucking lying to yourself, 997 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 2: your lying to everyone around you just so you can 998 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,680 Speaker 2: blend in. And then there's a peopleeple, like you know, 999 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,200 Speaker 2: there's a five to ten percent they have the external 1000 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,960 Speaker 2: conflict where they do everything that they know they need 1001 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 2: to do for themselves, which is how I try to 1002 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,359 Speaker 2: live today, and most of the time I do. But 1003 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,520 Speaker 2: then you get the external conflict, you know, you get 1004 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,239 Speaker 2: you get people calling you weird and people calling you 1005 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,440 Speaker 2: like like what are you doing? Like you wake up 1006 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,520 Speaker 2: at one thirty fucking weirdo? You're obsessed? Yeah you know, yeah, 1007 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,760 Speaker 2: you know, yeah, yeah. I post really vulnerable open stuff 1008 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,680 Speaker 2: about my life and my journey on my you know, 1009 00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 2: on my socials and stuff, and I get people fucking 1010 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 2: saying whatever about it. Man, But like I don't give 1011 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,239 Speaker 2: a fuck because like that's the external conflict. But internally, 1012 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,520 Speaker 2: for the first time ever in my life, I've been 1013 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 2: okay with myself, you know, like for someone's running from 1014 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 2: himself his whole life and sticking needles in his fucking 1015 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,600 Speaker 2: arms and stuff like that. You know, like, you know, 1016 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:53,000 Speaker 2: that's that's that's the repercussions of me not living you know, 1017 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,160 Speaker 2: not living in alignment to me. You know, so like 1018 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,239 Speaker 2: I've got no choice see other other people's you know, 1019 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:05,279 Speaker 2: the repercussions for other people not living as who they are. 1020 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 2: You know, they're not as big as mine. You know, 1021 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 2: I've got no choice, man, either either live and adopt 1022 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 2: this this lifestyle that I learned how to live through 1023 00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 2: some incredible people that taught me how to live this way, 1024 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,759 Speaker 2: or the alternative for me is really fucking bad. You know. 1025 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: Well you touched on stuff that and why you're talking. 1026 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,160 Speaker 1: I'm sort of reflecting on the things in my life 1027 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:34,319 Speaker 1: about that internal conflict or external conflict. And I was 1028 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,200 Speaker 1: in the cops for a long long time. Now, that's 1029 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,640 Speaker 1: an organization where you're meant to conform, and yeah, if 1030 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,839 Speaker 1: you step out of line or stick your head up 1031 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,680 Speaker 1: or whatever you tend to get dragged back into. This 1032 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:50,399 Speaker 1: is how we do it in this organization. My yeah, 1033 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:52,960 Speaker 1: as everyone knows that listens to the podcast, that my 1034 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,640 Speaker 1: career ended in tears and controversy. 1035 00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 2: Shit happens, I know. 1036 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 1: But I feel good within myself because I was been 1037 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: true to myself, Like there was aspects of when allegations 1038 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,919 Speaker 1: were made at me, I could have taken the knee 1039 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,800 Speaker 1: and said, I'm sorry, I've been suffering stress, I was working, 1040 00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,080 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and I chose a different path. I've 1041 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:23,280 Speaker 1: said bullshit. I own everything that I did and I'm 1042 00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,520 Speaker 1: not going to apologize for it now. Yeah, I was 1043 00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,680 Speaker 1: going for all the dilemmas in my mind, what's do 1044 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,000 Speaker 1: you take the easy path? And the easier path would 1045 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,080 Speaker 1: have been to show contrition and fall back into line. 1046 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,799 Speaker 1: But I wouldn't have been true to myself. Now, I 1047 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,839 Speaker 1: could have done it easier. I could have done it 1048 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 1: easier when the front page of the paper and you've 1049 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,759 Speaker 1: got me standing there going I'd rather gave the jail 1050 00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:53,759 Speaker 1: than pay a fine. That's not a good strategy when 1051 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 1: you're about to go to court. But I looking back 1052 00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,200 Speaker 1: now and it's been four or five years. I'm so 1053 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: glad I've taken that path because I don't know if 1054 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,640 Speaker 1: I could have lived with myself if if I wasn't 1055 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:06,879 Speaker 1: being true to myself. So a lot of what you've 1056 00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,480 Speaker 1: touched on there, I think it's so important. And we're 1057 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,840 Speaker 1: all going to be criticized. People aren't going to like you, 1058 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,720 Speaker 1: people aren't going to like me. But if you're doing 1059 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,399 Speaker 1: what you believe to be the right thing and it's 1060 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,520 Speaker 1: your your journey, I think you've got to hold on the. 1061 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,480 Speaker 2: Days, yeah, for sure. And the criticism doesn't sting when 1062 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,919 Speaker 2: you're being good with yourself, you know, criticisms it's only 1063 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,600 Speaker 2: really hurtful when you when you're needing the validation of 1064 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,239 Speaker 2: other people, you know what I mean. So you know, 1065 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:37,840 Speaker 2: like I said, you know, if I'm taking criticism personally today, 1066 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 2: like I know, I'm not, I'm not living the best 1067 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 2: as I can. I'm not I'm not honoring myself in 1068 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,359 Speaker 2: some way, you know. So I'm much like you, you know, 1069 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,080 Speaker 2: And and not only that, like you know, when people 1070 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:54,120 Speaker 2: actually do live and do honor their truth and stuff 1071 00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,359 Speaker 2: like that, it's admirable. Like I found what you did 1072 00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,479 Speaker 2: was really admirable. I've got a huge amount of respect 1073 00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,560 Speaker 2: you for what you did. You know. Yeah, And I 1074 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,200 Speaker 2: feel like with other people that have had similar experiences 1075 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,000 Speaker 2: like you and I have had the people that sort 1076 00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,960 Speaker 2: of like regardless of like any sort of like external pressures, 1077 00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,279 Speaker 2: they just they just stand the truth and they you know, 1078 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,439 Speaker 2: like I look at that shit and just it's that's 1079 00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,080 Speaker 2: fucking cool. That's that's that's. 1080 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,040 Speaker 1: The people that I look up to, all the people 1081 00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,520 Speaker 1: that have been mentals or that have always walked their 1082 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:28,040 Speaker 1: own path and stayed true to themselves. And I like 1083 00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,480 Speaker 1: to want of the people that have trained me to 1084 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,800 Speaker 1: to do that. But yeah, it comes to the price. 1085 00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,759 Speaker 1: But yeah, when and someone once said to me, and 1086 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,120 Speaker 1: I can't remember the exact quote, but yeah, the quality 1087 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,160 Speaker 1: of life is often demonstrated by the quality of the 1088 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:47,480 Speaker 1: people who criticize you. And yeah, I'm saying, like some 1089 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,600 Speaker 1: of the people that attacked me, well, I couldn't give 1090 00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,160 Speaker 1: us stuff what they think about when it's all said 1091 00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,560 Speaker 1: and done. And that's that's not arrogance. That's not me 1092 00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,920 Speaker 1: going I'm better than you. It's just your opinion doesn't 1093 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,880 Speaker 1: count in in my world. I don't value your opinion 1094 00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,600 Speaker 1: because I don't value you as a persona And yeah, 1095 00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,320 Speaker 1: you've got to balance that with sometimes where you criticize, 1096 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,919 Speaker 1: it's justifiable, and that's if you're aware of the type 1097 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,319 Speaker 1: of person you are. You've got to check yourself then 1098 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,760 Speaker 1: and go, okay, well that's that's a fair, fair call. Yeah, okay, 1099 00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,480 Speaker 1: I'll pull my head in. But again, that's been true 1100 00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,719 Speaker 1: to yourself. You're trying to improve yourself, and I get 1101 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,239 Speaker 1: the sense with your life and when we get into 1102 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,279 Speaker 1: part two, we'll talk about what you're doing with hope 1103 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,320 Speaker 1: and help and the way that you've turned your life around. 1104 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,319 Speaker 1: But okay, you accept this life that I'm living, this ship. 1105 00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:40,160 Speaker 1: You use the boxing example. You know, I'm fighting for 1106 00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,440 Speaker 1: a title, but I've been putting shit in my body 1107 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,279 Speaker 1: and it's not preparing for it properly. So yeah, you've 1108 00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,279 Speaker 1: got to have some acknowledgment. You've got to learn. And 1109 00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:50,880 Speaker 1: life is a journey, isn't it. 1110 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,399 Speaker 2: Yeah I understand, Yeah, I understand. Yeah, And that's exactly right. 1111 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,680 Speaker 2: So you know I've got and I've got that perspective 1112 00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,560 Speaker 2: of life now, you know, like I'm never a victim. Now, 1113 00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,759 Speaker 2: you know, I take full responsibility for everything. So I'm 1114 00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:03,799 Speaker 2: I'm the common denominated in all my ship. You know, 1115 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:05,960 Speaker 2: everything's happening for me, not to me. You know. So 1116 00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:10,280 Speaker 2: when when I'm going through something, you know, like I'm thinking, 1117 00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:14,360 Speaker 2: all's like, you know, I'm coming up against stuff. You know, 1118 00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,879 Speaker 2: I'm thinking, well, what am I meant to learn through this? 1119 00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,879 Speaker 2: You know, and that just just that perception of just 1120 00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:25,439 Speaker 2: just just just perceiving life that way, it just makes 1121 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,239 Speaker 2: it a fucking journey, you know what I mean, like 1122 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,319 Speaker 2: rather than this fucking struggle, you know, And it's been 1123 00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,600 Speaker 2: a it's been a complete life changing experiences. 1124 00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,080 Speaker 1: That you know, I get what you're saying, and I 1125 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,920 Speaker 1: think it's a valuable, valuable comment there that you don't 1126 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,319 Speaker 1: always see yourself as a victim. You go, Okay, why 1127 00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:46,279 Speaker 1: why did this happen? I see there the type of 1128 00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,480 Speaker 1: lessons that you've learned for sure. 1129 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,759 Speaker 2: For sure. I mean it's hard to see when life 1130 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,080 Speaker 2: doesn't go the way we predict the two you know, 1131 00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,200 Speaker 2: we plan it to or hope it goes. You know, 1132 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,839 Speaker 2: we look at it as like unfortunate or like it's 1133 00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,360 Speaker 2: not this fucking blessing that it is, you know, like it. 1134 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,239 Speaker 2: But you know, if you can actually sort of like 1135 00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,160 Speaker 2: if you spend a bit of time like ordering your 1136 00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,439 Speaker 2: life and reviewing your life and stuff, like you look 1137 00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,080 Speaker 2: back at all those moments that that when things didn't 1138 00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,600 Speaker 2: go the way you plan, it's because like fucking what 1139 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,160 Speaker 2: really needed to happen ended up happening, you know. And 1140 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:17,800 Speaker 2: I just feel like that. And that's the thing about 1141 00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:19,680 Speaker 2: slowing down for me now, you know, I always live 1142 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,319 Speaker 2: life really fast paced, like fucking next thing, next thing, 1143 00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:24,359 Speaker 2: the next thing. When you actually slow down, you look 1144 00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,200 Speaker 2: at life, you just go, man like everything is just 1145 00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,560 Speaker 2: working out in this an incredible way. You know. Yeah, 1146 00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,400 Speaker 2: it's got hardships, it's got challenges, it's got like heartbreaks, 1147 00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,520 Speaker 2: it's got all this stuff in it. Like you know, 1148 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,600 Speaker 2: maybe you know, as humans, like we're we're like fucking 1149 00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,480 Speaker 2: pre programmed. I blame social media for this is a 1150 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,000 Speaker 2: lot as well, pre programmed to like chase happiness and 1151 00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,400 Speaker 2: comfort and stuff like that, you know, because everyone's gloating 1152 00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,560 Speaker 2: about like this fucking life that they want everyone else 1153 00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:50,800 Speaker 2: to see them having and stuff. So we feel shame 1154 00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,640 Speaker 2: when we're not fucking feeling happy, you know, I mean, 1155 00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,520 Speaker 2: we're human beings. It's full array of fucking emotions. You 1156 00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,560 Speaker 2: know that you know, and we feel like if we're 1157 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,920 Speaker 2: not happy, we've got to suppress it. So yeah, but 1158 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,600 Speaker 2: the actuality is man. Part of the fucking human experience 1159 00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:06,759 Speaker 2: is to experience all of it. 1160 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:11,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, before you mentioned social media. Before social media, 1161 00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,960 Speaker 1: I used to always make the comment I can't judge 1162 00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:18,120 Speaker 1: on relationships. I've had some good ones, bad ones, and failings. 1163 00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:24,239 Speaker 2: But they happened to just gone through another one. 1164 00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:31,160 Speaker 1: But I would always laugh, not laugh, but I make 1165 00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,760 Speaker 1: the comments of people close to me. Yeah, the couples 1166 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,440 Speaker 1: that you see in the first six months saying how 1167 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,719 Speaker 1: much they love each other, and that's just beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. 1168 00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,080 Speaker 1: It's like pre social media days, look how happy we are. 1169 00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,719 Speaker 1: And you could almost go, that's going to fail trying 1170 00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,040 Speaker 1: to present this persona that life's perfect and you think 1171 00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,680 Speaker 1: it can't be that perfect because life is not that perfect. 1172 00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,759 Speaker 1: So that that takes it takes them down the notch. 1173 00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,400 Speaker 1: But look, let's let's leave it, leave it there for 1174 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,560 Speaker 1: part one. When we get back, I want you to 1175 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,320 Speaker 1: take us on the journey that how you break away 1176 00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,879 Speaker 1: from your addiction and then the impressive work that you're 1177 00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,839 Speaker 1: doing it. I hope in health rehabilitation, because I think 1178 00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,560 Speaker 1: that's yeah, and this is a crime podcast. The amount 1179 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:24,319 Speaker 1: of addictions and that impact on crime, it's yeah, it's 1180 00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,000 Speaker 1: a one way straight. When I look at your life, 1181 00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:30,080 Speaker 1: if we stop the podcast here and we didn't, I 1182 00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,239 Speaker 1: didn't know what you did in the future. I got 1183 00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,000 Speaker 1: to say all the warning signs I wouldn't put on 1184 00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,719 Speaker 1: not a gambling man, but if I did gamble, I 1185 00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:39,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't have put money on you getting through without going 1186 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,200 Speaker 1: to prison or dying. 1187 00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:45,439 Speaker 2: That seemed to be the trek creep that your life 1188 00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,640 Speaker 2: was on. But I've got close to both of them. 1189 00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:48,719 Speaker 2: I'm very close to both of them. 1190 00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,319 Speaker 1: Okay, we'll talk about that when we get back, and 1191 00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:53,600 Speaker 1: what you're doing with hope and health. 1192 00:55:53,960 --> 00:56:03,680 Speaker 2: Sure, jeez, awesome. Thank you. Never k