WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 8 January 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:00.520 Lately. 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:04.800 Welcome to the Late Debate. 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.520 Good evening and welcome to the Late Debate. I'm Caroline Marcus, 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:14.400 joined tonight by Sky News contributor Kel Richards and broadcaster 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:18.960 Lucy Zelich. We begin tonight with major news from Meta, 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.320 the company that owns Facebook and Instagram. 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.759 It's getting rid of its so called fact checkers. 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:26.840 Woo Yes. 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.960 CEO Mark Zuckerberg has finally admitted what was obvious to 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.080 everyone else on social media. 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.159 Fact checkers are biased. 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:38.760 And we've reached a point where it's just too many 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:43.320 mistakes in too much censorship. The recent elections also feel 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.560 like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech. 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:49.080 So we're going to get back to our roots and 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:53.720 focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:56.800 expression on our platforms. The fact checkers have just been 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.600 too politically biased and have destroyed more trust than they've created, 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:01.640 especially in the US. 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:07.720 Whoa Zuckerberg dropping some major truth bombs instead, Meadow will 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:11.800 now introduce community notes now. These are like Elon Musk's 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.959 community notes on X, where users can provide contacts for 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:17.680 posts that they. 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.880 Find false or misleading. Now Lucy. 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.240 I think this is a great move from Facebook, but honestly, 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.720 I don't think it should have ever taken Trump's reelection 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:30.080 in order for them to make this no one. 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.319 This is a very classic kiss the Ring moment, isn't it. 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.680 They're all recognized that Trump president elect Trump is coming 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:39.200 back into power, and that it's time to recognize that 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.759 this is no longer the in thing to do. 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:42.720 We're not being. 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.319 Swayed by a very left and biased government who love 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.560 to attack the right with their community notes and ideas 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:49.440 of misinformation. 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:50.120 But we've been. 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:52.640 Seeing it go on for so long now, and I'm 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:54.840 so glad that the pendulum has started to swing back 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.800 the other way, and we're seeing it swing back towards 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.600 common sense, to more conservative views, and to being open 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:03.360 to all of that. I mean, you only have to 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.080 look back to what happened in the election and all 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:10.280 of those you know, those slabs of misinformation, you know, 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.760 fact checking issues pertaining to Trump occurring them censoring political 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:19.679 speech and content on Facebook in particular, to recognize that 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.520 they couldn't trust these social media platforms. And the bigger 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.320 question that always kind of aroused my suspicion around this 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:28.640 as well, was who are we leaving it to to 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:33.840 determine what misleading information is? Is it some lefty activists 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.520 that's working at these organizations that's guiding us on what 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.360 is right and what is wrong? It was just a circus. 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.040 So it's nice to see that a bit of common 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.160 sense is coming back into the frame. 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:47.920 Kel I thought that satirical site Babylon Be put it perfectly. 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:52.120 Today they said the guy who said Facebook wasn't suppressing 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:56.800 free speech announces Facebook will stop suppressing free speech. Now, 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:01.160 I mean here isn't exactly a martyr. He was very 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:05.520 much involved. I think matter invested millions of dollars in 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.240 order to prop up these fact checking units and to 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:13.640 support organizations that controlled speech in America. 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:15.960 Well, to pick up on Lucy's point, we know who 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.440 was doing it because in Australia, for Meta and for 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.080 the ABC and for lots of other organizations, it was 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:25.040 being done by a fact checking unit at r m 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:28.480 T in Melbourne. So I went to their website and 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:30.920 I've made a really interesting discovery. This will sound like 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.480 I'm making this up, but this is true. The official 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:38.920 name of their checking system is crap. This is live 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:42.560 can this is really it is spelled c R a 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:48.600 AP pronounced crap and those five headings were currency, Relevancy, Authority, 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:51.880 Accuracy and Purpose. I I just think that's wonderful. That's 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.200 too good to be true. But what those five different 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.640 headings are, they're five different doors through which they can 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.840 kick out any message they don't want, and they did 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.920 because they kicked out messages that were not leftist messages. 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.040 Who picked up on the medi Scare campaign, who said 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.480 this is rubbish the Coalition has never said this. Whoever 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.640 picked up on the Three Eyed Fish and said this 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:17.200 is rubbish? This is not what nuclear does these days. 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.080 They are not fact checking anyone on the lift. They're 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:22.960 only fact checking people who are slightly to the right 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:24.919 of Setter and who show a bit of common sense. 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.760 And this is who's doing it. The r MIT unit. 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:30.200 They now have lost their contract. They had a contract 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:32.440 with Meta, So the good news is I said, they've 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:34.120 lost it, but they've still got their crap. 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:37.840 Well Sky News really not too darn horn, but I 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:43.200 will anything. They were really instrumental in exposing the bias 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:47.440 that existed in these fact checking units, and most particularly 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.520 this Australian wanted r MIT fact lab now they displayed 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:57.520 obvious bias during the Voice rapperendum. Peter Kredlin in particular, 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.240 some of the information and she was coming out with 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:04.239 which turned out to be one hundred percent accurate, things 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.680 like that the Illoru statement from the heart was not 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.320 one page and that was really key to helping voters 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:16.240 come inform voters in order to make up their minds 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.080 at the referendum. They were getting slapped with community notes, 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:24.520 these items of news, this journalism and look Kretlin's come 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:25.160 out today. 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:26.360 Just a short time ago. 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:31.200 She's given a statement to sky News dot com dot 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:35.240 Au and she said that today's about face from Facebook 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.560 is a major win for free speech and political expression, 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:41.800 at least in the USA. But if Mark Zuckerberg was 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.840 fed income, he would commit to rolling this out globally. 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.280 Lucy Yeah, I dare say. 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:49.159 I got to agree with her that this needs to 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:49.840 happen everywhere. 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:51.839 I absolutely agree with her. And if you cast your 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:52.280 minds back. 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.599 There was a report in The Australian in April last 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.960 year in which about forty Facebook users who had a 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:02.120 pro nuclear lobby had the content removed because of what 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:05.839 they the meta team had deemed as misleading I mean, 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.760 if anything's misleading, it's renewable energy and this fantasy idea 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.120 that that's going to be the thing that powers our 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:12.880 entire country. 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:14.680 Where's the fact checking on all of that. 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:18.159 It just seems to be things that are operating within 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:20.520 the right, within the conservative movement, that they just have 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.480 this obsession with trying to fact check and label as 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:27.840 misinformation and misleading. So, you know, it's it's a really 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.039 it's an interesting time when you look at what's going 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:32.960 on in the US, for example, because that seems to 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.480 be a big predicator and a test case for what's 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:35.720 to come. 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:36.239 In Australia. 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.520 We're a little bit behind. We're an isolated island, but 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:39.359 I don't. 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:43.080 Have the same free speech protections they do in their in. 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.840 Their constitution play we don't have that here. 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.520 We still have we have no information laws that there's 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.760 some of the toughest affirmation laws in the world here cow. 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.280 I mean, there's still going to be restrictions on what 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.240 people can say so and hate speech, and there are 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.360 I'm not a free speech absolutist that. 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.360 Should be there's always limitations, and there are sensible limitations. 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.200 But within those sensible limitations, we have to be able 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.040 to say we think the problem is if you analyze 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.920 what's going on, there are in fact four categories of 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:17.760 propositions or truth, claims, true, false, disputed, and opinion. And 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:20.600 all this fact checking was based on the idea no, 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:22.760 there's not for this only too. If it doesn't fit 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.200 into our category of truth, it's false. They wouldn't acknowledge 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.240 there are disputed things you can argue about. They wouldn't 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:33.160 acknowledge people can express opinions. So all of that got canceled. 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.520 All of that God wiped out. That's what they've been 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:37.520 doing in Australia. That's a bit they've been doing around 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:39.680 the world. That's the bad news. They've got to be 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.480 honest and say, yes, there's room for dispute things we can. 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.080 This program is called the Late Debate because it's possible 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:47.720 to have debates about things. 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:49.600 And the other guys one of the few places that 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:53.040 you can have I think absolutely will debate and disagree 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.880 and whether we agree we all agree on this right now, whether. 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:58.680 We agree or disagree, I think it's really important to 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.800 acknowledge that you have to have that debate, that you 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.760 have to be able to stress test and really push 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.760 your point of view, whether people disagree with it or not, 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.160 to the limits right to determine what is the right 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.040 position on this. And if we're all thinking alike, we're 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.080 not really thinking very much in all at all. And 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:15.600 I think that that's the kind of point that we 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:17.720 arrived to. But I feel as though this move also 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.720 it kind of was inevitable, because the more that the 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:23.320 likes of Mark Zuckerberg and co. Dug their feet and 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.160 their heels in, the more credibility they lost. I mean, 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.560 we saw the way that legacy media, particularly over the 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.880 United States, the way they behaved even through the pandemic, 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:35.760 right with CNN infamously trying to make Joe Rogan look 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:37.800 gray and even more sick than he was. 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.000 I feel as though he couldn't avoid this. 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.160 It had to happen otherwise, you know, his product was 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.000 only going to take an even bigger beating. 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:47.320 So it had to happen. 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:48.920 And I just hope that we see an even greater 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:50.319 still here in Australia. 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.720 It's still happening. There was a C and N commentator 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.400 that I saw today on television claiming that what Trump 0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:00.360 was planning was a military invasion of Greenland. Now I mean, 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:01.439 that's just absurd. 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:03.440 Well, actually, we'll come to that in a bit, but 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.199 I gotta take hell but that Trump did say that. 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.440 He did say he wouldn't rule out and I will 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.959 play the grab for viewers in a little while. 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:16.800 Understand sense of humor that is deliberately look at Trump 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:18.680 jokes and they pretend he's seriously. 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.560 They're shaken a bit, you're is it? 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:24.520 No, probably not, but he did say it quite literally. Anyway, 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.120 we'll come to that in a bit. First, I want 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.920 to bring the debate a bit closer to home, and 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:33.160 the de facto Palestinian ambassador to Australia has praised the 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:37.679 government for daring to repeatedly anger Israel and break with 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:39.640 the US on its stance on. 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:40.320 The Middle East. 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:46.559 Is that Abduhati also predicted a Labor government would recognize 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:50.400 a Palestinian state if it won the next election. Lucy, 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:52.840 I'm not sure that's the kind of endorsement you want 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.679 as a government. Sure it might go down well in 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:59.720 some Muslim majority seats, which the government is clearly concerned about, 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:01.960 but I I don't accept that most Australians want to 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.839 see terrorism rewarded with the creation of a Palestinian state 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:09.480 at this moment in time, just after the worst attack 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.600 on Israel in history. 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.400 And the point that you also made that I'm really 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:16.440 kind of stuck on in all of this is the 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.599 identity politics, which I'm so against, right, this idea of 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:22.480 jostling for votes, this fear of being perceived to be 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.439 an Islamophobe or a racist if I am calling out 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.839 the facts and illustrating how it really is and what 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.640 reality looks like. That's the problem that I have with 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:33.760 the Labor government is that they're so hell bent on 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.160 appealing to the ideologues and those voters who they know 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.760 have that, you know, the Muslim majority seats, rather than 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.720 doing the thing that is right and noble. That's the 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:45.800 part that really doesn't sit well with me because I 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:48.120 think that in the interests of looking at who. 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.160 Our allies are, which of course is Israel. 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.440 You know, why aren't we all asking that question beyond 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.560 this bubble? Why haven't they returned the hostages? You know, 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.880 you and I spoke earlier about these beautiful babies that 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:00.000 they suspect. 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:01.360 You know, lost their lives in all of this. 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:02.560 First children. 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:06.440 It's just heartbreaking and so devastating where both mothers. 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:07.720 We kell you're a parent. 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.400 I mean, this is what people aren't hung up on enough, 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.560 is why haven't these hostages been returned. We've seen so 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:18.040 many innocent lives lost, and that's the conversation that we 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.160 need to be having, and I want our Australian government 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.679 to be strong. We're seeing this rise in anti Semitism, 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.720 the disgraceful graffridi that's going on at the moment on 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.160 you know, innocent things like e bikes for example. 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:28.960 I mean, that's another story. 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:30.959 We'll get rid of those, but really, I mean it's 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:35.640 just and on restaurants and people's homes and cars. That's 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.000 another story too, and that you know, we can all 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:42.000 agree on. Anthony Albanisi and his government haven't been strong 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.960 enough in stamping this out and the rise has just 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:45.640 been appalling. 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:47.800 Well, we might be able to agree on it here, 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.240 but certainly that does seem to be a strong sentiment 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:53.520 at least among the pro Palestinian voices that we see 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.560 on the streets in Sydney and Melbourne every weekend. Well, 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.839 at least they might be a smaller minority, but they're 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:02.040 certainly very noisy. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:06.199 Yes, Hel and I think obviously. 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.679 They would they would agree with the and boys palasan 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:10.960 in and voice statements here. But do you think the 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:12.080 majority of Australians. 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:16.240 Oh no no. But for me, the worry is if 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.600 he likes the Australian government, what does that tell us 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.120 about the Australian government. Who your friends are, the people 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.200 you've agreed with, the people you've chosen to cozy up 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:30.920 to say something about you. Absolutely, So if suddenly, if 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.000 Penny Wong has been saying things that make this man 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.040 really happy, what has she been up? It reminded me 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.200 of the old story of the drunk and the pig. 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:40.520 The drunk laid down and the gutter the pig came 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.080 laid beside him, and the lady walking past said, you 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.360 can tell the man who chooses by the man who boozes, 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:48.640 by the company he chooses. And the pig got up 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:52.920 and slowly walked away. The friends you're with say something 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:58.800 a joke, it's not exactly So. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:01.320 It wasn't that long ago. 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:07.000 That Hamas itself had come out and praised the Australian government. 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:08.440 Well look look what he was doing. 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:12.200 It looks like is he talks about October seventh and 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.880 he talks about what's happened since October seventh, and he 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.800 clearly takes a Hamas line. This is a man taking 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.520 a terrorist line saying the Ausralian government is on the 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.920 right line and doing the right thing. That should alarm us. 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:24.760 Well. 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.280 Look, just to add a note of clarification my own 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:33.040 community note here, according to reports, this Palestinian and boys 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.560 As abdul Hardy, he isn't a member of Hamas, nor 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.600 is he a member of Fatar, the other major political 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:41.040 party in Palestine. 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:41.920 Just to make that clear. 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:42.240 Look. 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.959 Speaking of terrorism, there are also concerns over the sale 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.079 and calls to ban the sale of a T shirt 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:55.520 in Australia which features the slogan's bash Zionists and support 0:13:55.840 --> 0:14:01.120 Armed Resistance Now. An anti Israel activist and graphic designer, 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:05.640 Carla Scotto, has been selling these t shirts online and 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:10.840 at the Alcedak Heldeberg Mosque in Melbourne, although the im 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.240 I'm at the moss claims that he didn't approve of 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.439 the t shirts and he wasn't even aware they were 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.400 being sold. I wonder how that came to happen in 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:18.959 his own. 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:20.160 Mosque without him knowing. 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:24.520 But regardless, Lucy, Armed Resistance I mean that is clear 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.320 as day. I think that is a call for violence 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.560 and it's a call for terrorism. And Zionists, well, they 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.040 represent eighty to ninety percent of Jewish Australians and Jews 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.960 around the world, so this surely meets the. 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:38.680 Threshold for incitement to violence. 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:40.720 I would think, of course it does, isn't. 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:41.320 It clear as day? 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.200 Bash Zionists, I mean, at what point did it become 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.720 acceptable in society for people to wear these kinds of 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.760 shirts and to align themselves with a recognized terrorist group 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.480 and to not be reprimanded for that, for that to 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.760 be something that's you know, that they won't suppress in 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.400 terms of free speech, that everyone's allowed to to the 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.880 streets over and to attack and harass peaceful and innocent 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.560 Jews in this country. I think that's that's a really 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.200 sad indictment on where we are at the moment, and 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.040 the fact that these things have become the status quo 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:15.320 in Australia says a lot about the direction that this 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:16.120 country is going. 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.440 In kel Yep, there were a few years ago I 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:23.480 remember people on the hard left and people and Antiva 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.440 were saying things like punch a Nazi and that's okay, 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.360 although everyone was an Nazi in their view, anyone slightly 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:34.080 right to them. But now we think calls to palm Zionists. 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:39.640 Look, incibment of violence such as bah Zionist is already 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.000 a crime. They don't need to be reprimanded. They've committed 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:44.800 a crime. You and I have been saying this and 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.160 we have to keep saying it again. When will there 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.720 be arrests? When will people be charged? When will people 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:54.480 appear in court because they've broken the law. This breaks 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:58.360 the law. Basha Zionist is incitement of violence. It breaks 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:00.000 the law, and they've got to be a rest. 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:00.280 Well. 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.960 The federal government and now Anthony Alberanzi made this big 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.680 song and dance lucy about setting up this new anti 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:07.240 Semitism task force. 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.360 I mean, shouldn't it be for cases like this? 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.680 And yet I have absolutely no confidence, I mean bold 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.920 prediction here. Nothing will happen to this graphic designer or 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.920 the people who've been promoting her work, because in the 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:24.800 past we've seen people proudly and brazenly wearing jerseys saying 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.640 October seven to major tourist sites in New South Wales. 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:33.440 We've seen people holding her Mass themed birthday parties for 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:35.680 a four year old here in Sydney. 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.080 Nothing has happened in those cases. 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:39.680 Zero and many our zero consequences. 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.040 I mean, just to add another layer to this, though, 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.320 do we have to set up this task force when 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:48.120 we already have these laws that, as Kel rightly pointed out, 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:52.120 are punishable by law when you commit these types of acts. 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.520 I mean, it just feels like it's a box ticking exercise, 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.800 like Anthony Albanese's attempt to say, Hey, look, I'm setting 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.120 up this anti Semitism task I'm doing something. 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:02.200 Anthony. 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:06.560 You actually already have existing legislation at your disposal that 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:08.560 you can use to punish these people. 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:10.840 Send the message, make it clear. 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.159 That we won't tolerate this in our country. They're so 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:15.919 proud to talk about how Australia is this peaceful and 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:20.959 coexisting melting pot of multiculturalism. Start to protect the people 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:22.639 that you were elected to represent. 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:25.240 That's what you need to accept as reality. 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:29.280 Look, while we're on the topic of Islamist extremism, it's 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.679 been ten years now since the brutal terror attack on 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:37.720 French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, in which two are Kaeda 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:43.919 gunmen murdered twelve people, including many of the publication's celebrated cartoonists. 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.920 French President Emmanuel mccron and the mayor of Paris led 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:52.760 a solemn ceremony outside the magazine's former offices as a 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:57.640 spate of recent terror attacks around the world revived awful 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.760 memories at that time. Now, back in twenty fifteen, kel 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.440 so many people were quick to jump on the Suit 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.879 Charlie bandwagon. Look, I remember I was on holidays in 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:13.119 the Maldives, of all places at the time, actually a 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:19.600 Muslim territory, and we got a free piece of cake 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:25.040 delivered to our villa and it had the Eiffel Tower 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.719 out of chocolate, like in solidarity with everyone was on 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.119 this bandwagon. But how many people have held firm on 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:36.120 that and confidently called out islamis terrorism since then? 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:39.000 That's right. It becomes fashionable for a while to say 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.880 I'm against Islami terrorism, and then people forget about. 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:45.000 It the tenth when they get scared of being labeled 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:45.760 as I'm aphobic. 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.919 Perhaps well maybe they're afraid of that or maybe that, 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:50.959 I don't know, they just move on. But what's happened 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.120 is in Paris there's been a tenth anniversary and the 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.480 bear of Paris and the manual Macron market. But the 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:01.800 al Qaeda sympathizers also mark the tenth anniversary, and you 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.960 know how they went around Paris painting up anti Semitic graffiti. 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.800 They put stars of David on the homes and businesses 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:12.240 of Jewish people. The evil is still there. Ten years later. 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:16.040 It hasn't gone away. They haven't been defeated. They're still active. 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.960 They are still there, and we have to remember. 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:22.560 That, Lucie, the Europe has become a really horrifying and 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:28.679 terrifying place for Jews, but not just Jews, everybody general, 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:32.399 everybody Western people who believe in Western values, and a 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.440 lot of it has to do with immigration. 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:34.760 Of course it does. 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:36.880 And I think that we have to start being very 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.720 bold and courageous and strong enough to admit that fact 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:44.199 publicly without fear of any repercussion or being labeled a. 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:45.840 Racist or in islamophobe. 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.240 I mean to call out the facts accurately as they are. 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:53.240 Shouldn't be controversial, It shouldn't be something that gets attributed 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.600 to this idea or this slide of being a racist. 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.159 You look at forty five thousand plus terror attacks that 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.000 we've seen occur in Europe have been a attributed to 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.840 is you know, these extremists and these Islamic fundamentalists. 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:07.000 So let's say that. 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.320