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Speaker 1: Welcome to the mentor. I'm Mark Boris holy Fellow. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the mentor.

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Speaker 2: Thank you thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: So you're the CEO and founder of wable or what is?

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Speaker 1: What's way will Meet? What's a stand for me?

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Speaker 2: Wave will stands for willing and able, which I think

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Speaker 2: perfectly describes neurodivergent people all over the world and willing

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Speaker 2: and able to make connections. Just a bit of a

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Speaker 2: helping hand for our community.

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Speaker 1: And also working. You're saying it makes connections, So what

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Speaker 1: is what does waybill do? What sort of connections you

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Speaker 1: talking about?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure, So. Wable is a social networking app built

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Speaker 2: specifically for the neurodivergent community. So think of it a

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Speaker 2: place to find dates, friends, jobs, and support all in

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Speaker 2: one place. So maybe like Tinder and Seek had a baby,

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Speaker 2: but for neurodivergent people is a good way to describe it.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting you're talk about neurodivergent. Dumb it's a new word,

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Speaker 1: relatively speaking your word, and it covers a broad base.

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Speaker 1: What is neurodivergent?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so neurodivergence and umbrella term. It captures or people

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Speaker 2: with autism, autistic people, dyslexic people, people with OCD ADHD,

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Speaker 2: A whole bunch of different neurotypes under that umbrella term neurodivergent.

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Speaker 1: So maybe it gives it a little you'd obviously know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but you could give maybe a bit

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Speaker 1: of a history of when that term first started to

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Speaker 1: be used, because I'm well aware of the thought processing

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Speaker 1: descriptions of convergent and divergent in terms of how our

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Speaker 1: brain works as thought processes. Neuro divergent sounds cool, it's

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Speaker 1: a good sound would but how did that come about? Like,

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Speaker 1: what's the history that would?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting one. I'm not exactly sure when

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Speaker 2: we started using the word neurodivergent, but when.

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Speaker 1: Do we start hearing about it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think probably more recently, and I think maybe

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Speaker 2: it's because I think it's because of increased awareness, particularly

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Speaker 2: around autism here in Australia. We can Akin's Eye can

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Speaker 2: some of that at least have shows like Love on

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Speaker 2: the Spectrum, which is obviously where Wabell started, but better

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Speaker 2: diagnostic measures, more awareness. You know, the draft Autism strategy

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Speaker 2: at federal government level this year come out in Australia.

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Speaker 2: So I think neurodivergent captures so many different people. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's twenty percent of the population. We hear about rises

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Speaker 2: in diagnosis for ADHD, and I think it's a nice

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Speaker 2: way to capture a really important segment of the community.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you obviously got a very big TAM in

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Speaker 1: relation to this. If we're talking just business. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: the TAM is the total just re market's quite large. Ye,

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Speaker 1: seems like it's growing. Investors would be interested in that

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Speaker 1: in the pure money sense, I guess for sure, But

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to dig into that a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I'll come back to love on the spectrum in the moment,

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Speaker 1: because that's probably what maybe what inspired you to do it,

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Speaker 1: and sort of the convergence of COVID and in our

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Speaker 1: country anyway, the sort of further development of Bill Shorten's

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Speaker 1: indies which sort of got a lot of got more

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Speaker 1: legs during the pre election period of twenty nineteen, and

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Speaker 1: the huge allocation of dollars towards that scheme, and then

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Speaker 1: lots of people got put into this. You're a divergent category.

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Speaker 1: If I just put out of that category, you know,

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Speaker 1: people who are autistic actually autistic as opposed to the

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Speaker 1: broader group. How much impact do you think that changes

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Speaker 1: in attitude across the world perhaps, but definitely here in

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Speaker 1: Australia contributed to this twenty percent market. Because if you

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Speaker 1: had to asked someone that, if I had asked you

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Speaker 1: prior to that period, that COVID period, how big is

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Speaker 1: the bots of tail addressable market of you're a divergent people.

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Speaker 1: Assuming way we both knew what that was, it wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be anywhere near what it is now like because we

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Speaker 1: just didn't know. But all of a sudden it's blown up.

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Speaker 1: It's got really huge. What have we got actually an

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Speaker 1: emerging problem because there's so many people who are affected

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Speaker 1: by this that we never knew about in the past

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Speaker 1: and we're ignoring or is there something that's happened vaccinations,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, whatever be fast in the world. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what it is that's that you know about

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Speaker 1: this maybe contributing to this or is it just a

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Speaker 1: people who have identified themselves as one of these types

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Speaker 1: of people and it's sort of becoming a phenotype, you know,

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Speaker 1: like a you know, I describe myself as this type

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Speaker 1: of person like a phenotype sense, like you know, someone

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Speaker 1: might describe themselves a phenotype physically, but other people can

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Speaker 1: describe themselves in the phenotype of you know, intellectually, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm confused by it all. Actually am you know, what

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Speaker 1: is the thinking about this? You know? And obviously investors,

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Speaker 1: you know, you've just done some successful rounds, raise some money.

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Speaker 1: Obviously investors must be talking about this too. It must

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Speaker 1: be a global thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean I would reframe away from you know,

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Speaker 2: seeing more more people identify with neurodivergence is not a problem.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you're divergence has already been there has been.

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Speaker 2: People have been autistic for as long as time. But

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Speaker 2: more people are being diagnosed now there.

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Speaker 1: Why is it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a few things. I think there's better diagnostic tools

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Speaker 2: these days. I think more people are willing to talk

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Speaker 2: about it. Yes, there is still an enormous amount of

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Speaker 2: stigma surrounding autistic people mostly, but I feel like we

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Speaker 2: are moving in the right direction.

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Speaker 1: Has become cool. Yeah, well I don't. I actually don't

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Speaker 1: think it's stigmatized. Somehow is I don't know why, But

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Speaker 1: that's that's sort of trying to dig into here. It's

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Speaker 1: managed to become like I hear people say it, then

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Speaker 1: it's the you're diversion. They say them on the spectrum,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of thing. The show made it cool

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Speaker 1: because it was a cool, good show, But it's sort

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Speaker 1: of like cool now. I don't know about another country.

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Speaker 1: I'm just talking about here. It's nearly like I have

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Speaker 1: a special power. I'm you're a divergent, whether that whether

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Speaker 1: that's autistic or just ADHD. Yeah, and I presume ADHD

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Speaker 1: comes undo the coy. Yeah, absolutely, and even that, I

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Speaker 1: mean there's degrees of ADHD probably, you know, like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it, like probably everyone I know has

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Speaker 1: got ADHD as growing up, I think, But maybe I

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Speaker 1: had it and maybe I still have it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Maybe my four sons had it. I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 1: my grandson's got it. I don't know the answer. But

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Speaker 1: because I'm not a diagnostic person, but you know, there's

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Speaker 1: somewhere we pretty much all sit into the category. And

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Speaker 1: because I'm going to come back to your business model,

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Speaker 1: because say, how do you feel to that? Of course, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because that's important because because you don't want impostors getting

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Speaker 1: in there totally. Yeah, And so if I could just

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Speaker 1: talk generally about the addressable market and you say it's growing,

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Speaker 1: which is great for vestors, and it's great for you

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Speaker 1: in terms of your pitch, But how do you can

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Speaker 1: sort of compact that and make sure it's you know,

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Speaker 1: it sounds terrible, but you're not taking advantage of the growth.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying you are, but I'm just I don't

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Speaker 1: seen doing that.

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Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. I think the key is that neurodivergent

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Speaker 2: people have always been looking for a place. Everyone wants

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Speaker 2: to go to a community and be part of a

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Speaker 2: community that feels where you feel like you belong, whether

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Speaker 2: it's your sporting community or your work community. But for

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Speaker 2: neurodivergent people, especially autistic people, they're not really necessarily looking

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Speaker 2: for a neurotypical person to date or in their close

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Speaker 2: friendship circles. But there are a lack of places wheen

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Speaker 2: you're a divergent people or autistic people primarily can find

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Speaker 2: one another in a close knit environment, and it was

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Speaker 2: certainly lacking in modern dating and social apps. So we

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Speaker 2: feel a niche. But you know, like you say that

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Speaker 2: the niche is growing, it's a lot of people. And

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Speaker 2: whilst we say it's neurodivergent people make up to twenty

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Speaker 2: percent of the population, it's probably more than likely forty

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Speaker 2: percent and much bigger than that. That's you know, that's

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Speaker 2: what we know of diagnosed, but it's actually likely a

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Speaker 2: larger number. And yeah, lots of people going on diagnosis

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Speaker 2: journeys later in life going like what you just said,

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Speaker 2: Oh that actually sounds like me, or watching Love on

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Speaker 2: the Spectrum or here listening to a podcast and going

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Speaker 2: I struggle with those things as well. Maybe maybe that's

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Speaker 2: me and going on a diagnosis journey much later in life.

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Speaker 2: We hear of women over forty being diagnosed with ADHD

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Speaker 2: at bigger rates. I'm ADHD, so I get it. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's interesting. But I think we are writing a bit

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Speaker 2: of a wave at the moment. And I think for

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Speaker 2: me at least, I noticed it really when Love on

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Speaker 2: the Spectrum came out and people were talking me, yes, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: ABC and now Netflix and they went on to do

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Speaker 2: a US series which is great, and you know, Lee

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Speaker 2: Sales heading up a news show on the ABC, The

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Speaker 2: Assembly with autistic journalists, and so there's so much more

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Speaker 2: representation in media. I mean, we still have a very

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Speaker 2: long way to go, but I think we are riding

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Speaker 2: a wave of hopefully nearing you know, better inclusion, particularly

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Speaker 2: here in Australia. The States is like another ball game. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: we've all heard the bits and pieces coming out of America,

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Speaker 2: and I don't believe there's you know, the whole conversation

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Speaker 2: around Tyler and Noll and vaccines. I just dismiss entirely

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Speaker 2: that it's a cause. And I think some of.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't matter what the cause is.

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Speaker 2: A No, I don't think there is a cause. It's

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Speaker 2: just neurodivergence is another neurotype. And I think the sooner

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Speaker 2: that we can accept everyone in the community, the better.

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Speaker 1: So it should it be called Maybe we shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: called neurodivergence in maybe maybe you know, if you say

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Speaker 1: it's just another type.

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Speaker 2: Well, when you think about it, it's just another another way

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Speaker 2: of thinking. We all think differently. Why is one scene

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Speaker 2: as lesser than the other? Or yeah?

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Speaker 1: Correct? And that's sort of my thing. So I can

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Speaker 1: understand why autistic people might want to have a social platform,

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Speaker 1: perhaps particularly people a little bit further along the spectrum

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Speaker 1: of autism, where they find it socially awkward to socialize

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Speaker 1: with non autistic people. Therefore, they might find it difficult

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Speaker 1: to meet appropriate people in their in their lives and

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Speaker 1: Whi's why I thought that show was a great show

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Speaker 1: because it was pairing them up sort of thing and

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Speaker 1: watching watching them understand, you know, how relationships work, and

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Speaker 1: of someone who thinks similarly to them. Because what I

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Speaker 1: get I get nervous about these things is, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm interested to know what your model does, but making

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Speaker 1: sure you don't get imposters in there. For sure, could

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Speaker 1: trying to take advantage of someone who's maybe naive in

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Speaker 1: a social sense or and or just as a result

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Speaker 1: of their awkwardness therefore don't understand or don't have the

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Speaker 1: same comprehension of where a trickster might be or a

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Speaker 1: confidence person might be. Go like, someone's trying to take

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Speaker 1: their confidence, steal the confidence, is what I mean? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it's a you know, because we see it. We

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Speaker 1: said it. On the other it's called dating platforms, I know,

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Speaker 1: not just to day dating platforms. We see this process

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Speaker 1: being abused like often on some of the other platforms.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to mention them, but and I'm just

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Speaker 1: curious as to know how you what is your software

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Speaker 1: do and we'll talk about that in the moment. I

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Speaker 1: think that's really for me, it's most interesting thing about

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Speaker 1: your platform. I get the title just market, I get

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Speaker 1: all that. I get that there definitely would be a need,

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Speaker 1: is a need I probably what I want to come

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Speaker 1: back to that, because this is the mentor show is about,

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Speaker 1: you know, business owners. I want to come back to those.

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Speaker 1: What inspired you and what was your what did you

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Speaker 1: do prior to doing this, and why did you decide

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Speaker 1: maybe I'll build a social platform for this part of society.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, well I could take you way back to

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Speaker 2: at the beginning. But yeah, prior to this, I had

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Speaker 2: a I you know, entrepreneurship wasn't necessarily on my vision

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Speaker 2: board by any means. It maybe happened by accident. But

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Speaker 2: I used to work in media, so I.

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Speaker 1: Did as a journalist sort of.

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Speaker 2: I did sports presenting, so I was a boundary writer

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Speaker 2: for the a AFL.

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Speaker 1: Games with se Boundary Rider.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like on the boundary reporting. So I'm a big

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Speaker 2: sports and I love I love sport, I love AFL

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Speaker 2: and I had a breakfast show with s CN for

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Speaker 2: a little while and at a great time. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 2: so used to being behind the mic, but not not

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Speaker 2: as much talking about business, more about sport and that

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Speaker 2: kind of thing. But after that I worked in PR

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Speaker 2: and marketing, so which has been an advantage much later on.

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Speaker 2: But I didn't know it. But yeah, of course lockdown hit.

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Speaker 2: I'm a Melbour girl, so I suspend.

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Speaker 1: You guys were lockdown.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, lockdown for the we were the most lockdown

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Speaker 2: city I think in the world. I don't remember which

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Speaker 2: lockdown it was, maybe number five or six. But of

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Speaker 2: course I came across Love on the Spectrum, which at

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Speaker 2: the time was first hit the ABC, and Michael Theo

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Speaker 2: was a breakout star really from the show. He's hails

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Speaker 2: from Wollongong. I think he's in Sydney today actually, but

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Speaker 2: it was off filming. He's doing amazing things. But Michael's autistic,

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Speaker 2: and we got to watch his first date on the

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Speaker 2: show and witness his tenacity in search of love despite

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Speaker 2: the challenges he faces as an autistic person.

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Speaker 1: And I was just so, did you just explain to

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Speaker 1: me what they are? Because I remember I don't remember,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember him specifically. Yeah, but what would the

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Speaker 1: challenges be you mean outside of another person with autism,

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Speaker 1: do you mean like with the person who's non autistic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, Well, look, every you know, if you meet

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Speaker 2: one person that's autistic. You meet one person and that's autistic.

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Speaker 2: But you know, so everyone's challenges are different. But some

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Speaker 2: of the challenges that experienced often you know, regulating some emotions,

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Speaker 2: reading other people's body language, and you know, like we

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Speaker 2: always say, a lot of autistic people don't pick up

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Speaker 2: on sarcasm and things like that. So when it comes

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Speaker 2: to meeting someone, I mean, yeah, those sorts of things.

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Speaker 2: But when it comes to meeting someone for the first time,

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Speaker 2: particularly in a date setting or making new friends, it

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Speaker 2: can be hard to initiate and maintain that connection in

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Speaker 2: the first point, especially with someone that might not understand

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Speaker 2: some of the ways that you think like all of us.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, a lot of heightened anxiety around sort of

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Speaker 2: those situations compared to a neurotypical person. But to be honest,

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Speaker 2: I think neurotypical or neurodivergent, a first date setting or

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Speaker 2: making new friends comes with a bit of anxiety for anyone,

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Speaker 2: I think, at least speaking from personal experience.

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Speaker 1: And how did Michael go in that that serious It was.

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Speaker 2: A series of yeah, it was, I mean, he's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Recall.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they set up like kind of like speed dating

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Speaker 2: type settings and then once they find matches that they

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Speaker 2: might like to sort of continue on with, the producers

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Speaker 2: will set them up on a date. And the Australian

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Speaker 2: producer has gone on to produce the US another series

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Speaker 2: Key and he's amazing, and yeah, so Michael we got

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Speaker 2: to see he's Michael is a true gentleman and all

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Speaker 2: he's ever wanted for his whole life is a to

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Speaker 2: be an actor and be to find a girlfriend, and

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Speaker 2: thankfully now he's found both. But he he's just such

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Speaker 2: a lover, but a real gentleman, and so we got

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Speaker 2: to see that on the show, and of course everyone

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Speaker 2: fell in love with him. So once the show ended,

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Speaker 2: he went on Ellen in America. I think Kim Kardashian

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Speaker 2: posted about him or something, and.

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Speaker 1: He's off the Australier show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and his profile just why would they be watching

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Speaker 2: Love on the Spectrum or how would they get to

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Speaker 2: know him? Well, well, social media as well was big one.

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Speaker 2: But Ellen degenerous somehow saw Michael. Perhaps she watched the

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Speaker 2: show or one of her producers. I'm not exactly sure

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Speaker 2: how it happened, but he wound up on Ellen and

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Speaker 2: it was just crazy like this, this guy from Wollongong

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Speaker 2: that we didn't know about is now all over screens

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Speaker 2: in the US, and then obviously the US season came later.

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Speaker 2: But I think maybe it captured the world's attention at

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Speaker 2: the right time. We weren't talking about neurodivergence as much then,

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Speaker 2: and I think it probably was a lot of people's

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Speaker 2: introduction to I knew sort of what autism was, but

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Speaker 2: I hadn't really seen seen it in the media or

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Speaker 2: seen autistic people dating. And I think it was really

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Speaker 2: new and captured a lot of people's hearts. So I

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Speaker 2: was on my couch and thought, oh, I was using

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Speaker 2: a few dating and social apps at the time, and

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Speaker 2: I thought, this is hard for anyone in a time

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Speaker 2: as well where everyone's feeling a bit lonely in COVID

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Speaker 2: and you know, crazy in human connection that's all everyone wants.

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Speaker 1: But because most of the dating apps will great to

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Speaker 1: be honestly, that were paying the ass, so you know,

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Speaker 1: and then you're probably thinking of yourself, well, like, there's

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Speaker 1: dating apps for me, and they're not they're not perfect,

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Speaker 1: you know they you know, you can run into a

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Speaker 1: brick wall quite often, and you probably did. You think

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Speaker 1: you must be terrible for a person who's on the spectrum.

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Speaker 2: Well, I just thought this has got to be even harder,

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Speaker 2: and I just DMed Michael on Instagram and I said, look,

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Speaker 2: you don't even know who I am, but holy I've

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Speaker 2: got this idea. I'm thinking about building an app for

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Speaker 2: particularly autistic people, but later on captured neurodivergent community. I

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Speaker 2: want to connect autistic people for dating, friendship, and jobs,

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Speaker 2: because unfortunately, the autistic community is severely underrepresented in the

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Speaker 2: workplace as well, despite being like neurodivergent people being some

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Speaker 2: of the brightest minds and creatives on the planet. But

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Speaker 2: and I really wanted to do something. So when I

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Speaker 2: told Michael, he was like, oh my god, we've been

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Speaker 2: waiting for someone to do this. If you do it,

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Speaker 2: please get me involved. And then I spoke to Michael's mum,

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Speaker 2: who plays a really important role in his life as

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Speaker 2: well and such a great support for him. And then

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Speaker 2: I spoke with psychologists and counselors and occupational therapists and

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Speaker 2: everyone was just saying, why isn't why isn't this happening already?

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Speaker 2: You've got to do it. So I don't know if

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Speaker 2: it's it's inherently been in me always or maybe it's

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Speaker 2: a bit of the ADHD. But once I get stuck

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Speaker 2: on an idea, I have to see it through. I've

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Speaker 2: become very obsessed. I became obsessed with this and I

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Speaker 2: was going to see it through one way or another,

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Speaker 2: and I did.

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Speaker 1: So what's the first thing you do when you're yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's forget about for a second the cohort of you

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Speaker 1: know who you're trying to talk to. But what was

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Speaker 1: the first thing you did? Do you think of a

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Speaker 1: business name? Did you think of the tech that you

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Speaker 1: the stack you got to put together, or what you do?

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Speaker 1: And do you remember the time and place or not

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Speaker 1: the time, but where you were when you thought, yep,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing this. Did you make desay only my job?

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Speaker 1: Did you do it as a side.

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Speaker 2: Hustle No, so I did it as a side hustle

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Speaker 2: for a while, and no one knew about it.

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Speaker 1: Except in stealth.

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Speaker 2: I did it in stealth, yeah, which I sometimes regret.

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Speaker 2: I you know, the whole everyone has that sort of

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Speaker 2: build in public thing. Now you see a lot of

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Speaker 2: founder content building in public. And I, if I could

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Speaker 2: go back, I probably would have documented more than what

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Speaker 2: I did. But I was, you know, I had a

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Speaker 2: really good job, and I was, you know, getting paid

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Speaker 2: by great companies to do the job. And I didn't

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Speaker 2: want anyone to think I wasn't committed to that either,

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Speaker 2: because I respect that. So I was building it in

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Speaker 2: the night. I'd sort of start work at you know,

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Speaker 2: eight till five and then go home and work from

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Speaker 2: have dinner, and work from you know, seven thirty till

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Speaker 2: three am for probably a good couple of years. To

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Speaker 2: get a cold.

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Speaker 1: It could actually holly like because that's massive commitments. So

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Speaker 1: during that period, so we're talking this COVID.

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Speaker 2: Period, Yeah, COVID period.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking to say, three or four years ago.

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Speaker 1: During that period, often people say to me, how can

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Speaker 1: you do that? How can anyone do that? Have the job,

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Speaker 1: then do the side hustle and work those hours, you know,

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Speaker 1: whatever time and night you're doing that. Then get up

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Speaker 1: in the morning and go perhaps go to the gym,

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Speaker 1: perhaps not, then go to work and then do your

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Speaker 1: job and then et cetera. How do you how did

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Speaker 1: you fit into that period social life? So I don't

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Speaker 1: know what your relationships were without a bloke or not.

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Speaker 1: What don't have to be a blow could be a female.

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Speaker 1: But did you have a partner during that period. Did

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Speaker 1: you go to gym? What did you have to sacrifice

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Speaker 1: or nothing at all? Maybe you're able to fit everything in.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sacrificed a lot. Or even when I was

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Speaker 2: trying to get a bit of a social life, I

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Speaker 2: was pretty run down and kind of not very present.

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Speaker 2: Like it does take a lot, I mean, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we launched last year, so that's a good four years.

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Speaker 2: A lot happens in four years in someone's life. I

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Speaker 2: had a break up when I was starting the business,

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Speaker 2: and you just have to keep there's no time to

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Speaker 2: just like kind of grumble and with you know, personal

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Speaker 2: challenges or challenges. No, no, not not a cause of it,

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Speaker 2: but certainly like yeah, now I've got a partner who

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Speaker 2: really understands this sort of world. But it takes a

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Speaker 2: different kind of beast to be with. I think a

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Speaker 2: startup founder as well, because a lot of your time

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Speaker 2: and attention is certainly on the growth of your business.

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Speaker 1: You know, if we're just dig into that, because I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of aspirational people who listen to the

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Speaker 1: show and or people are in the startup phase, you know,

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Speaker 1: they think that it's a pretty lonely place doing these

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Speaker 1: sorts of things. It is, because so what happens with

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Speaker 1: your what did you decide to do save for your mates?

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Speaker 1: From you? I presume it's good Melbourne somewhere. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: you have your schoolmate, it's probably you know, they're all

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Speaker 1: got a job like you had, but therefore finished at

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Speaker 1: five and on Friday night every month, they probably are

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Speaker 1: going to have a dinner together and again maybe a

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Speaker 1: few drinks, so I'll forget dancing whatever karaoke? Did you

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Speaker 1: make a Is it hard to keep together with that

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Speaker 1: group of mates? And if you were successful at it,

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Speaker 1: what mechanisms did you use to keep it like that?

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Speaker 1: Or did you just make a hard decision say well,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to have to sacrifice that because I'm so

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Speaker 1: passionate about this. Yeah, wable thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I'm really lucky in that my friends

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Speaker 2: and family and I built a lot of this during

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Speaker 2: the time as a single person, so that that I

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Speaker 2: just had that to focus on as well. So a

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Speaker 2: lot of it is quite lonely and isolating. But I

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Speaker 2: suppose I was like, in my mind, okay, I really

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Speaker 2: just have to knuckle down on this, and what's you know,

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Speaker 2: a couple of years in the span of my whole lifetime.

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Speaker 2: But then too, you know, you turn into two and

431
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 2: three into four and this will this is life now

432
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: for a long time. But I my friends are people

433
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 2: that were like, I really believe in what you're doing

434
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 2: as well, and I soo see the vision. I know

435
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 2: you have to you know, a lot of things have

436
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,719
Speaker 2: to go on the back burner, and I'm lucky that

437
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 2: the people in my life were like, you know, Holly Zann,

438
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 2: She'll be there as much as she can. But if

439
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 2: I have to dip out early from something, it's it's

440
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 2: understood and not sort of shamed upon.

441
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: But I maybe, like, did you lose connections?

442
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 2: No, not necessarily, I think I may. I just maybe

443
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 2: for some periods probably wasn't myself, Like I was pretty

444
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: stressed out in the first couple of years, so when

445
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 2: I was out, it comes at a cost. When you're

446
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 2: at dinner you're thinking, I actually felt like a level

447
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 2: of guilt sometimes being about going, yeah, I shouldn't be here.

448
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 2: My phone's going off from developers going can you approve this?

449
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: What's the password for this? Can you do this? And

450
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, oh shit, sorry for my last square on

451
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 2: this podcast quite like I need to get out of here,

452
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: you know, like everywhere I would go thinking this is

453
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 2: time I could be spending on work, even though obviously

454
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 2: you need to have time away. But Yeah, for me

455
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: in particular, it's something I've really struggled with. I still

456
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 2: struggle with now. Is that guilt on myself? Like, Holly,

457
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 2: you know where you should be? It shouldn't be here

458
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 2: for dinner, you know, probably to a maybe an unhealthy level. Yeah.

459
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so in other words, but you're able to justify

460
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: it by your mission, so to speak. And if I

461
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: just let's just park that for a second. And then

462
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: in terms of you're you're involved in media, yep, but

463
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're the main part of execution

464
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: on your idea is you know, some sort of tech stack.

465
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: How do you learn about that sort of stuff? Because

466
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I presume what's happening is you're using your

467
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: salary to fund developers and all that sort of stuff. Yeah,

468
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: but you know, you're you're running the show, so you

469
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: can't let them run off and do whatever they feel

470
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: like doing. You have to sort of give them the

471
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: architecture around it all. How did you learn about these things.

472
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, well in the beginning phase, like you say, you

473
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 2: put what you can in, you work your job, you

474
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 2: take your pay and you do what you can. And

475
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 2: I remember building like the wire frames with the team,

476
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 2: but really asking people so I start. When I started,

477
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 2: I was like where do I I'm literally googling how

478
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: do I start? Happ But I listened to a sports

479
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 2: podcast and listened to James Hurd, who was obviously coach

480
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 2: out at Essendon and I didn't know this but he was.

481
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: He's on the board at the time of a startup

482
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 2: in the dating app space, and so because all my

483
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 2: connections were with sport, I went, oh, well, I'll just

484
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 2: talk to him. So weirdly enough, James Hurd was the

485
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 2: first person I ever pitched wable Too as an idea,

486
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: and he said, look, I can't invest because it's a

487
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,239
Speaker 2: conflict of interest, but I want to introduce you to

488
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 2: the CEO and founder of the company that I'm involved

489
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 2: with and chat to chat to the founders they're Perth

490
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 2: based and get a sense from their idea and it's

491
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: I think that the tech sort of startup scene in

492
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 2: Australia is really good because I've that first conversation. Those

493
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 2: founders were so willing to help. Here's the things you've

494
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 2: got to look out for. This is what good tech is,

495
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 2: this is what bad tech is. How do I raise money?

496
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 2: Do I go private investors? Do I go VC? Do

497
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: I crowdsource fun? What do I? What do I do?

498
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: Because there's so many options. So actually speaking to other

499
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 2: founders in a similar space at the start was key

500
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: for me because once I got the tech stack and

501
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: a contract and all those sorts of things, I was

502
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 2: able to have people to bounce those ideas off without

503
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: paying them, just to help another founder out. At the time,

504
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 2: we had no idea where to start.

505
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: Did you develop your own tech stack or did you

506
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: get an IT person in, like a senior dev person?

507
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: Yes, so we had a senior dev build our first

508
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: version of.

509
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: The app and local Australian.

510
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 2: We had a mix, so we had We've had Australian

511
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 2: based and overseas as well, so that with teams that

512
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: have worked together and they're amazing. I actually thought about

513
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 2: bringing somebody in house, but our outsource team that we've

514
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 2: used to date have felt like an extension of our team,

515
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 2: so I haven't ran into the issue. But yeah, I mean,

516
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 2: it's hard. Like I was learning. I was learning the

517
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 2: tech side of things from on the run. But when

518
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 2: I started getting really serious and I was like, right,

519
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: I'm running out of money here. I'm about eighty percent

520
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 2: of the build through the app. I don't know how

521
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 2: I'm going to finish this, so I need to find investors.

522
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: I approached Primary Markets actually out of Sydney and their

523
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: chair Jamie Green. It was the first person I spoke to,

524
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: aside from Hurdy of course, who couldn't invest. Sorry you

525
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: missed opportunity, heard he. But he wouldn't mind me saying that.

526
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 2: But Jamie was like, look, primary Markets helps startups raise money,

527
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: but I'm actually really interested in this myself. Fuse on

528
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: the spectrum. Can I introduce you to some friends of mine?

529
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 2: Then the next time I'm on the phone with one

530
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 2: of his friends, who's now my chairman, Craig Mason. He's like, yeah,

531
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 2: I've got a few kids and a couple of them

532
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: are autistic. I so get this space and these are

533
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 2: you know, Jamie, And Jamie's a lawyer by Trey, Craig's

534
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 2: chairman of another ASX listed business. They know sort of

535
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 2: what to do and they're like, well, how much money

536
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,239
Speaker 2: do you need? I was like, I don't know. I

537
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: just need to finish this. What do I do? How

538
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: do I start? And that's when we formed a board

539
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: of a board of three, and thankfully with that came

540
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 2: a CTO from one of Craig's other businesses, and all

541
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: of a sudden, I had a pretty nice team around

542
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: me or willing to help and also put in some

543
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: cash to get me going.

544
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: So your first round was like a preceed and your

545
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: first round is like not friends and family, but in.

546
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: A sense Jamie Craig's friends and family. I was very lucky.

547
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 2: And you know, with that round, we got company secretaries

548
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: on the cap table and lawyers. All of a sudden,

549
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: I'm cutting all these costs. It's really important to get money,

550
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 2: but if you can get smart money with people with

551
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: skills that you don't have, that's the best thing I've

552
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: ever done. So I raised three hundred grand and that

553
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 2: got me to launch.

554
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: And one of the things that often perplexes a lot

555
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: of people is that three hundred grand doesn't sound much,

556
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: but it's actually quite a lot because it can actually

557
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: buy a lot of help. But two things arise from that.

558
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: The first thing is investors probably want you now to

559
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,239
Speaker 1: be full time on the deal, which means you've got

560
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: to leave your job. And then they say then and

561
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: of course you've got to get paid so because that

562
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: no one wants you to be struggling economically. So they

563
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: first thing is say, well, how much do you need?

564
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: So you have to work out of the three hundred,

565
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: how much you're going to take. And the second thing,

566
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: of the three hundred that you've received, you've got to

567
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: give way some equity and you've got to put evaluation

568
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: on the table. How did you deal with those two things?

569
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: And you know, what's a general rule that audiences can

570
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: think about you might have experienced as to what's a

571
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: fair amount of money that you take out of the

572
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: three hundred?

573
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. But you're right. Once I'd raised

574
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 2: the money, everyone was asking, hey, when are you quitting

575
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 2: and going full time?

576
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: Of course it's nearly as Nelly condition presoner.

577
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know what I actually thought it was

578
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: the opposite, Like, because I didn't know this world, I thought, oh,

579
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: the investors are going to really want all the money

580
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: to stay in the business, not going to want it

581
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: to go out to wages and that's what I thought,

582
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: just so naive about the whole process really at the beginning,

583
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 2: and they were like, no, no, no, we want you

584
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: full time on the business, which I was so excited about.

585
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 2: But it was scary because I was used to you know,

586
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: this is a guaranteed wage all the time. You've have

587
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: all this you know, structure, and you come to work

588
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 2: and you go home and there's a level of comfort

589
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 2: in that. But startup is pretty brutal and you start

590
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 2: burning cash and going okay, we better get raising again

591
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 2: because this is this is pretty full.

592
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: What did you pick? What did you just sort of

593
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: settle on?

594
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we said no, no, of course we said

595
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 2: it on. It was about three point five our first

596
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 2: raise and three point five million, three point five yeah,

597
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: pri so we.

598
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: So you raise three hundred thousand first.

599
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: Three hundred thousand, Yeah, so that did you take a wage? Yes, Yes,

600
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 2: I took a wage, yeah, one hundred Yeah, I took

601
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: one hundred grand.

602
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

603
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: And that I'm very.

604
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: Open about because that's usually for the audience, that's usually

605
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: the right number.

606
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well what I said to and our team's

607
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: very open with each other. You know that I was

608
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: on that wage previously. And they're like, well, you need

609
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 2: to live comfortably. We don't want you to be stressed

610
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: out of your mind, going how am I going to eat?

611
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 1: I don't want that?

612
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: And so that, you know, that was always a pretty.

613
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:40,959
Speaker 1: Open and then how do you work out what you

614
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: give away? Like so like you've got to say to that,

615
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: and generally speaking, you know, my experience in these things

616
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: is the investor doesn't really care about what they do,

617
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: but they don't really care about the valuation of that

618
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: they're coming in and they're more interested in what that

619
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars can take the too totally. Yeah, Yeah,

620
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: it's a relative game. Like if I got ten percent

621
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: of something, you know, let's three and it gives me

622
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: ten percent because of therefore was worth three million. I'm

623
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: only going I'm going to invest in because you're going

624
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: to convince me that the three hundred thousand you give

625
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: me is going to make you thing worth six millions.

626
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: So really, yeah, three hundred thousand doubles, Yeah, exactly, that's

627
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: that's the story. Yeah, because I'm going to struggle with what,

628
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: how could be worth three million when it's not even built?

629
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, Well, and to be honest, we didn't have

630
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: pushback really on valuation at the start. I think what

631
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: we argued on and of course lucky that I had

632
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: guidance from our border have done razors for other businesses

633
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 2: and all that kind of thing. But you know, we

634
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: pretty much completed the tech, we were almost there. I

635
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: had Michael lined up as an ambassador already, so I

636
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 2: knew that with Michael as an ambassador, we were going

637
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: to get huge reach, and we did. The day we launched,

638
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: we had a current Affair Today's show. Then I've gone

639
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 2: Forbes thirty under thirty like the pr just went nuts,

640
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 2: really because we had a great story and it was

641
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: good timing. Then we had a couple that fell in

642
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: love on the app, and then that was on the

643
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 2: project just before they went off air. So I knew,

644
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: I've got a brilliant ambassador spokesperson for the idea. I've

645
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 2: got the tech almost built, eighty percent, run out of money,

646
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 2: really need that money. You've got an ambitious founder me

647
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 2: that's going to go full time. We had a board

648
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 2: at that point with a lawyer Craig chairman. We had

649
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 2: resources already around the business, and we'd had trademarking already

650
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 2: done by that stage. So I'd trademarked wable in Australia

651
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: and New Zealand, and so we could argue that we

652
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: had some intellectual property there already, we'd I'd built up

653
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: a weight list, so I'm like, right, well I have

654
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: a weight list of people that will will download this

655
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 2: thing when we go to law. Yeah, so proof of concept.

656
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 2: And like you say, the addressable market is massive. And

657
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 2: I think I was saying the other day if we'd

658
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 2: launched wable maybe five years ago, I don't know that

659
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: we would have had their attraction we've had, but we're

660
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: coming in. I think timing has been I'm not going

661
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 2: to say, well maybe lucky. There's a bit of lock

662
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 2: in it too, but the timing around the conversation and

663
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: what we're doing has married up.

664
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: Really. It was a rising type for this stuff. Yeah,

665
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 1: for this service, Yeah, dash product. So do you mind

666
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: ask if you don't want to say it's okay, but

667
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: what did you have to wait to get the three

668
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: hundred grand?

669
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: Oh? I need to pull up I need to pull

670
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 2: up my cap table. I'll come back to you what

671
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 2: we what we gave up? But no, it was always

672
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 2: I know for a fact, it was always really important

673
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 2: to our board to retain equity for the for the founder,

674
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: and of course in Australia, if if I, if I

675
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 2: retain a good amount of equity as a female in tech,

676
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,879
Speaker 2: there's actually quite a lot of support that I can offer.

677
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: But if you dilute yourself so far out as the

678
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: female founder, a lot of those doors close on you

679
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 2: because they don't want to a lot of you know,

680
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: grants and things aren't interested in investing in you. If

681
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: in government grants, yeah, government grants and all that kind

682
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: of thing. If if you, as the female founder is diluted,

683
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 2: I out so thankfully I've got still a good little

684
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: slice of the pie. Even after having just completed our

685
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: second raise of one point five.

686
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: So you recently raised, raised again, raised again not here?

687
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: Where was it in a America or in Australia?

688
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, So we raised one point five million, this

689
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 2: time at six point five pre so.

690
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 1: Pre raised, pre money, pree money.

691
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

692
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: So what that means, people listening, is that the enterprise

693
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: value before the money comes in a six point five.

694
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: You raised one point five, which means post money that

695
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: things worth eighty I ssureing they gave you cash as

696
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 1: opposed to a contra or whatever. So it's now an

697
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: eight million dollar val on enterprise valuation and you and

698
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: you raised it in Australia. So maybe just for our

699
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: audience if you just give us a bit of an idea.

700
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: But did you appoint somebody to do the raise for you,

701
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: like to lead it for you? Or did you have

702
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: to did your first lot of investors have to reinvest?

703
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: I wanted to convince the second lot of investors that

704
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: it's worth investing. And how that will work.

705
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 2: It's all about finding a lead. Like until I had

706
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 2: a lead, I got a lot of come back and

707
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 2: speak to me when you've got a lead.

708
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: One.

709
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 2: No one ever likes to draw the first the first hand,

710
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 2: I suppose, and there's a reason the hardest.

711
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially the smaller checks. They'd like to know that

712
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: someone's done the work on.

713
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 2: It totally, someone.

714
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: With reputation, and people will often just follow someone else in,

715
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: Like someone puts half a million in normally for something

716
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: like that, you know, leads half half a million dollars

717
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: for example, and all smaller checks fifties, hundreds, they go, well,

718
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: they've done the work. I'll follow them in. So that's

719
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: a bit of a momentum thing. Is that sort of

720
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: what happened to your case? Yes? Yeah, sorry, how'd you

721
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: find lead? Then?

722
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 2: It took a while, but through so I got an

723
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 2: investor in out of Melbourne that I just knew through

724
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: connections and she was like, oh, I want to introduce

725
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 2: you to a few people I know. And one of

726
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 2: them was Tourist Capital out of Perth and once.

727
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: I health tic what are they?

728
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 2: A bit of everything? They have a big their own

729
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 2: sort of investment group, yeah, and mandate.

730
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: So I.

731
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 2: Sat down with them, and I sat down with Paul

732
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,399
Speaker 2: who works there, and for about an hour we had

733
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 2: coffee and by the end of the coffee he was like,

734
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 2: I mean, we're gonna We're going to find you the money.

735
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: So but that was after probably it must must have

736
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 2: been something like nine ten months of me pitching, like

737
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 2: coming to Sydney, pitching to I've done vcs, family offices,

738
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 2: angel investors. There's not a lot of people I haven't

739
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 2: met and pitched too. But that's good because even if

740
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 2: you get to know if I'm coming back again, they

741
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 2: already know me. But yeah, I mean it was tough,

742
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: like raising money is no easy feed, I think, and

743
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 2: I thought you know, I've got traction, I've got customers,

744
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: I've got'm jenny rating, revenue tick tick ticking, all the

745
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: things that you think investors look for. But of course

746
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: when you're asking for a bigger check, it's longer. Like

747
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 2: our first raise was actually relative. I hate saying this,

748
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: but it was easy. I think everyone is pretty apprecreat

749
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: idea yeah kind of thing.

750
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: It's an idea race.

751
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, let's see what happens, you know. And then

752
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 2: and I thought, no, now we've got traction, it'll be

753
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 2: it'll be fine, it'll be easy.

754
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: It wasn't. The second race. The seed round, like the

755
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: second after the first round, is harder because you've actually

756
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: got something which they can now check and they can

757
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: see and they can start doing numbers and extrap late

758
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 1: out to the future and say, well, on that basis

759
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: we can now we don't believe that you'll get people

760
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: to sign up. But how much of the month, how

761
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: much she's charging per month for.

762
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 2: So we charge fourteen ninety nine now for a premium subscription,

763
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 2: but you can also download and use it as a

764
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 2: free yeah, preemium model, Yeah, exactly.

765
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I mean, once you're n you've got problem

766
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: with that is you've got actually concrete things sitting in

767
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,720
Speaker 1: front of you, compared to when you raise the roundred

768
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: where people can start to try to do risk their investment.

769
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: So they start questioning, questioning those those inputs, those variables.

770
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: Will people pay forty ninety nine? Can you tell us

771
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: have you done some research to say you can do

772
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: forty nine and nine? In the moment you say yes,

773
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: I have, then all of a sudden there's something else

774
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: that they can start to pull apart. No, well, but

775
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: I don't believe that. I don't agree with that or

776
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: the it wasn't broad enough. You're right, it is harder.

777
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: It is harder, and the next one to be harder again.

778
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so you've.

779
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: Done a preceed you're want a seed and you do

780
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: a series A. Yeah.

781
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting some people kind of because of the

782
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: stage of I suppose traction and stuff. Where we're at

783
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 2: with everyone, like, we've sort of argued that this was

784
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: kind of series A, and maybe the first one was

785
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 2: more more seed. We probably kind of skipped a pre

786
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean the pre seed sort of thing. It

787
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 2: doesn't suppose it's the stage of business.

788
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: So it might have been the preceed yourself yet.

789
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, say we're closed series A. So yeah, it's exciting.

790
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 2: And now it's just we just launched the app in

791
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 2: the US and the UK. I've just spent three weeks

792
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 2: over in the state, so yeah, back, I think I've

793
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 2: been home for four days and then come on a

794
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 2: plane to see you. So it's great. Yeah, got a

795
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: break from the airport and then come to see you.

796
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,479
Speaker 2: So no, it was really cool. And everything just moves

797
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 2: so quick in the US. I mean, obviously it was

798
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: an interesting time to be over there in this space,

799
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,720
Speaker 2: but we it was crazy. I've been like chasing media

800
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 2: with our PR team to try and get the word

801
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,439
Speaker 2: out there. And I had just had a random day

802
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: in New York where I got a billboard up in

803
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 2: Times Square, and I'd been chasing a bunch of media

804
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: and one of them was Daily Mail in the US

805
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 2: because they have a huge, yeah, a ridiculous amount of

806
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 2: millions of people reading, and I had we'd had some

807
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 2: interests before I left in potentially covering US. But you know,

808
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 2: things always take a bit longer than you want them

809
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 2: to anyway, So I snapped a picture of the billboard

810
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 2: in Times Grand we sent it off to them, and

811
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 2: then within the next hour he's like, yep, so are

812
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 2: you free for an interviewer an hour and then I

813
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 2: was in a cab in New York on the phone

814
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: to Daily Mail and it was up the hour after that.

815
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 2: So things do move pretty quickly and it's good timing,

816
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 2: and it was it was really cool to see the

817
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 2: states and now, yeah, seeing people sign up in America

818
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 2: is pretty crazy. So yeah, it's cool.

819
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: So you've got your so wable's now raised. Yeap, what

820
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: have you called series eight? Doesn't matter? You raise one

821
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: enough minute. You've got a reasonably good valuation at eight.

822
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: You've been out of four or five years now probably

823
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: you know, pretty much close to four years for sure.

824
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: You're up and running. You got your stack build, and

825
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: you've got revenues. Because you are, you have got subscribers.

826
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: To speak, how many subscribers you've.

827
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: Got, So we got about twelve thousand now and that

828
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: was we haven't started any marketing, so are they all

829
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 2: paid or not all paid? About ten percent paid at

830
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: the moment, so it's pretty good conversion so far. But

831
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 2: that's on zero marketing, so generic word of mouth our

832
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 2: pr that we at the start just got because it

833
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 2: was a good story. So now the attention is really

834
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 2: ramping up the marketing side of the business and hiring.

835
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 2: So I finally get some helps.

836
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: You can build a team now, like a team that's

837
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: not external or oursourcing, it's actually your own team. And

838
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: where are you based? Where do they want you to

839
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: be based?

840
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 2: Well, based in Melbourne at the moment, I'll go back

841
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 2: and forth probably until back and forth, back and forth

842
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 2: between the States and Melbourne.

843
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: And then we're in the United States.

844
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, United States, of course, so I should have

845
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 2: said that, but yeah, so and then I do want

846
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: to hire some people in this in the United States.

847
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 1: It's which stated we're talking about now where you are

848
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: in San Francisco where, Yeah, that's what I'm.

849
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 2: Looking at the moment. It's the hiring laws and everything

850
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: is a bit confusing. I'm trying to navigate all that

851
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 2: and where all the sort of hot spots are. I mean,

852
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,720
Speaker 2: San France is such obviously the tech spot of the world.

853
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 2: There's some cool little pockets out and even like Boston's

854
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 2: now a bit of a hot spot for startups. But yeah,

855
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 2: thinking sand fran would probably be a good place.

856
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 1: So just a lot of asi there.

857
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, heaps of assies heaps.

858
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: And in La but San Francisca definitely, and and it's

859
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 1: not cheap there, but it's not too bad either relatively speaking.

860
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: So but you'll probably have to set up with some

861
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: sort of not a lab but la premises and you know,

862
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: you will do the usual thing where you'll be you

863
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: know what the Aussies I know of this sort of

864
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: sleep on the premises. So well they premises downstairs and

865
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: they sleep upstairs or something like that, and that it's

866
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 1: not like a like a proper office. It's it is,

867
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 1: but it's not like could be an apartment.

868
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 2: A bit of a harb yeah yeah, yeah.

869
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 1: And but the Aussi's over there are pretty fall on,

870
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of them and there's a lot

871
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: of events to go where they're always talking to each

872
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: other and committing.

873
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 2: Other people's heaps call stuff like there's like Aussi's in

874
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 2: New York, groups oussies in San fran tech startup alsie

875
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 2: founders in sand There's all these groups and communities to

876
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 2: be a part of. But the feelings a bit different

877
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: over there. I feel like people are very willing to

878
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: give you a leg.

879
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: Up or introduce you to someone introduce you.

880
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 2: That's the biggest thing. Yeah, totally, And it's not different.

881
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 2: People are a bit sometimes a bit cagy maybe that's the.

882
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: Right word, just not as helpful. It's something they're not

883
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: as Australians are much more conservative. Australians in America and Americans,

884
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 1: like especially in San Francisco, much more open to helping somebody. Yeah, yeah,

885
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 1: because they expect you to help them back.

886
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 2: Yes, totally and never forget.

887
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: It's reciprocation for sure. Yeah, whereas here they don't expect

888
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: the reciprocation. Therefore they're sort of loads not loads, but

889
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: it's just less regular that they will help you. So yeah,

890
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 1: and I think it's greatly if you start to raise

891
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: money though of in the US. So if you if

892
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: you go around for the next round, yeah, and you

893
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: raise money in the US, there will be an expectation

894
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: that you have more permanent premises.

895
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

896
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, so because that's the big market. Yeah, people like

897
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: you you need a very small percentage of that.

898
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 2: If we can crack the States, yeah, that'll be that'll

899
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 2: be pretty epic. I mean, at the moment, our subscribers

900
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 2: like Daily obviously Australia was our biggest group signing up.

901
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: But now our US subscribers have overtaken. We're getting more

902
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 2: US subscribers per day now than Australia. So it's interesting.

903
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 1: So I expect to see you on I don't even

904
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: know if she still has a show, Ellen, but I

905
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 1: expect to see you on one of those shows.

906
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 2: I'm trying and look, Allen's off and now, but that's right. Yeah,

907
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 2: I mean, and all the night shows of all a

908
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: lot of them have thrown their support behind Love on

909
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 2: the Spectrum. Because you think Love on the Spectrum was

910
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 2: big in Australia, try the US season. It just went crazy.

911
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 2: And so yeah, it'll be interesting. Maybe hopefully we can.

912
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: We can well you and Michael, that'd be great because

913
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: obviously his talent, I'm not saying you're not, but he's

914
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: incredible talent from the show and is the real deal. Yeah,

915
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: Like it's hard for you to you're a you're a

916
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: business person and you know one pine the original idea,

917
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: but people will get it. So as they listen watch

918
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: feel his sense of excitement about it. Yeah, well well done,

919
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: Like it's a fantastic. Basically, you're still building a tech

920
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: you're really a techy. But at the same time, it's

921
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 1: got all the sort of interesting cool gltty sort of

922
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: I've got a bit of Hollywood in it.

923
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's it's really funny helps and it's Yeah,

924
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 2: it's so cool. I get to come to come to work,

925
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm making a difference, Like I get

926
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: to hear from couples that have met on the app

927
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 2: and gone on first dates and new friends, and I

928
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 2: have parents and support workers actually reach out a lot

929
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 2: and tell me what's going on, which is cool. I

930
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: get a bit of the gosp But I'm I'm praying

931
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 2: fingers crossed for a wable wedding at some point, but

932
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 2: I'm trying not.

933
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: To get w wable wedding.

934
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's gotta be some sort of sponsorship.

935
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: Well, I can sort of see lots of case studies

936
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: coming over this. So I mean, I imagine your website,

937
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: what is it wable dot com or.

938
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, no, nowhere on the Apple App Store

939
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: and androids of Google Play. And we've got our website

940
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 2: and what is it wable dot com, hellowable dot com,

941
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 2: hellowayboard dot how come I couldn't get the wable domain.

942
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 2: Someone's bought it before I did. And I've been just

943
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 2: trying to dispute that fraud.

944
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not even a is that a word

945
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: before wable willing, but willing enable or did you make

946
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: that up?

947
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 2: I just made it up. Yeah, yeah, willing and able

948
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: and thought wable sounds cool. It sounds like an app.

949
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 2: It's kind of catchy.

950
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: Totally stuck from that, but it wasn't available. That's mad. Yeah,

951
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: but you're so, you're so what are you again? So

952
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 1: just so anyone's listening, what's according it? No? No, the website, Oh,

953
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: the website.

954
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 2: Sorry, it's www. Dot hello, wable, hollow wable. You can

955
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 2: find us on both apps dot com.

956
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, not a okay, well done, Well, good luck and

957
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: thank you for having you a lot of interesting a

958
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: lot of interesting things you to do from here. I

959
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: mean you're going to get pushed and pulled in so

960
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: many directions. So you know, sometimes people go, wow, I

961
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: can't wait to raise my first three hundred, and they

962
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: say I can't wait to raise my second to get

963
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: your one half and then and I often think to myself,

964
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: you just started, and now it's real.

965
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Well I'll come back with my

966
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 2: pitch deck once we're scaling in the US for series. Yeah, hey,

967
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 2: so we can chat. We can chat the way.

968
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: Well well done. Congratulations By the way, anyone else started

969
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 1: up as anyone else copyed do?

970
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've had a copycat like that always happens, doesn't it.

971
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 2: You know what, I spent so much time. If any

972
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 2: founders are listening, I'm sure I've listened to your show.

973
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 2: So I spent so much time worrying. Oh my god,

974
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 2: I can't tell anyone because it's going to steal my idea.

975
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 2: Don't worry about it, because if your idea is good

976
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: enough and you replicate it well enough, someone somewhere is

977
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 2: going to try and replicate it. And that just that's

978
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 2: just the way it is. But yeah, good luck, try

979
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 2: and move move than I do. I would be impressed.

980
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: So back yourself to be better. But what's interesting about

981
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: that is that it sometimes is better to have more

982
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: than one player in the market.

983
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you've got to have competitors. And if you go

984
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 2: to a meet with an investor and you say you've

985
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 2: got no competitors, I think they would they would laugh

986
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 2: at you.

987
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: Even think what they would also say something, this is

988
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: something wrong with the proposition.

989
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, is there even a market or I want or

990
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 2: a need for this. So yeah, you just.

991
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 1: Want to be in a competitive market, be the best competitor.

992
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 2: That's where a point of difference is always good, you know. Yeah,

993
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 2: And a point of difference whether that's what you're offering

994
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 2: or your business model or something that makes you a

995
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 2: bit different. And then also I think, I mean, you've

996
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 2: probably invested in a few different things, but I think

997
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 2: a lot of the a lot of the feedback is

998
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 2: always the investors investing in the person and the founder

999
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 2: in all the time.

1000
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: And it's about it's about you at this stage. Soon

1001
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:54,879
Speaker 1: it would be about more about the team. Then as

1002
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: you get through the various series, it will be about

1003
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 1: the customer base.

1004
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 2: They need to know you're crazy to see it through.

1005
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well but that's what especially American American versus Yeah,

1006
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:05,359
Speaker 1: by the way, pretty good.

1007
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 2: So yeahs across for and that's some of that sweet

1008
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 2: US USD at some.

1009
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: Point, especially dollars a bitter than Australia. Well, very the

1010
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 1: best of luck, Holly, I'm well done. And Holly Fowler

1011
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: the CEO and founder of wable, and you can find

1012
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: her at hollowable dot com or you can just go

1013
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: to the wable app, which is available on Apple.

1014
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Beautiful, Thank you so much, welcome, Thanks very much.