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Speaker 1: Good.

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Speaker 2: I tell them at TAPS, who else would it be?

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Speaker 2: Welcome to you? Project? Doctor Mark Cohen is back for

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Speaker 2: that BT and I third fourth. Do you know how

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Speaker 2: many times you've been here?

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Speaker 1: Doc?

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Speaker 2: So few?

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Speaker 1: Therefore, Yeah, fun.

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Speaker 2: How's life?

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Speaker 1: Oh that's awesome. I've been bouncing around the world and

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Speaker 1: doing good things since I've retired. I've never been busier.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I've built in his heelands last week, I

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Speaker 1: mean Arizona next week. I me in Melbourne this week.

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Speaker 1: So what's this stuff?

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Speaker 2: What's the stuff that you're doing, what's got your attention

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Speaker 2: and what's got you excited?

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Speaker 1: What I'm really excited about is I'm channeling or rediscovering

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Speaker 1: medical practices that were really common a thousand years ago.

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Speaker 1: So a thousand years ago there was in the height

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Speaker 1: of the Persian Empire, there was a guy called Avisena

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Speaker 1: who wrote that he wrote a textbook that they saved

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Speaker 1: the most read textbook of all time for the canon

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Speaker 1: of medicine. And in those times in Persia, he was

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Speaker 1: doing contrast basing, so he was doing her mum thirsteen

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Speaker 1: rooms and saunas and cold plunge, and he was combining

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Speaker 1: that with oxymals and oxymals. Oxymel means acid honey, where

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Speaker 1: you mix vinig with honey, and that was the basis

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Speaker 1: of medicine in ancient Persia. In fact, there was a

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Speaker 1: basi of medicine. Hippocrates time and hypocative says that food

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Speaker 1: be thy medicine and medicine bee thy food well, viegar

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Speaker 1: and foods. They're both medicines and you can mix them together.

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Speaker 1: And in ancient Persia a thousand years ago, they had

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Speaker 1: twelve hundred recipes for these oxymals. It was like that

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Speaker 1: was the form of medicine you took. And I've just

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Speaker 1: sort of rediscovered this. So I've got a you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm working with vinegar and honey and I'm making oxymals,

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Speaker 1: and I'm also doing a lot with bathing on the

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Speaker 1: medical director of the Poeninsula Hot Springs Group and I'm

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Speaker 1: the shareholder of the hot spring in New Zealand, and

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Speaker 1: I'm off to Arizona next week on a cold plunge

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Speaker 1: research workshop with a small group of cold plunge researchers

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Speaker 1: were all talking about ice bathing. So I'm really big

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Speaker 1: into the sauna and the ice bath world now, and

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Speaker 1: I've been big in the hebble medicine, got to write

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Speaker 1: textbooks on heavy medicine. And I've been a doctor for

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Speaker 1: thirty years in that space, and now it's all coming

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Speaker 1: in together, and I'll just only recently realized this. This

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Speaker 1: was down a thousand years ago. Yeah, I call it.

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Speaker 1: I call it ancient future medicine because it stays. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's old, but it's the future.

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Speaker 2: Did you say ancient future medicine?

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Speaker 1: Correct putting?

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Speaker 2: I think that's the title of my show. Thank you Now,

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Speaker 2: I don't have to think about that at the end.

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Speaker 2: How much stuff, doc, do you think that we have

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Speaker 2: unlearned or just forgotten? You know, it's like you're saying

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Speaker 2: a thousand years ago in Persia blah blah blah before

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Speaker 2: that Hipiocrates, and like, I wonder how much genius the

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Speaker 2: world has forgotten about.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty clear that's the case. And I know a

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Speaker 1: lot of people talk about you know, these ancient mega

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Speaker 1: liths and you know go blecktly Tepe and you know

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Speaker 1: the Pyramids, and there's all the technology that we don't

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Speaker 1: understand how people did. But with in terms of medicine,

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Speaker 1: the stuff I'm really interested in is the stuff that

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Speaker 1: was so obvious that our hominy ancestors used it even

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Speaker 1: before we were even human, our homony way way two

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Speaker 1: million years ago. Ancestors are using it, and that every

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Speaker 1: great tradition and every medical every medical practice, every master

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Speaker 1: physician would prescribe these things. And they're actually so complicated

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Speaker 1: we can't fully understand them. Yet they're so simple. You

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Speaker 1: can do them at home with very little cost, training

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Speaker 1: or equipment. And I like that. So things like hot

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Speaker 1: and cold bathing, you can do that at home, just

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Speaker 1: hot and cold shower. Mixing vinegar and honey, that's anyone

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Speaker 1: can make vinegar, make kombucha and ignore it for six months,

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Speaker 1: or turn to vinegar you mix out with honey. And

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Speaker 1: you just got to a bee keeper or have your

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Speaker 1: own bees. And I'm just about to get my own bees,

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Speaker 1: which I'm really my sixtieth birthday and my ex wife

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Speaker 1: gave me from beehives, So that's pretty exciting, you know,

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Speaker 1: just my suburban bee e and I'm making my own

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Speaker 1: oxymors and we're expanding that. But these therapies, which are

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Speaker 1: super ancient, haven't been really talked about or promoted. I spoke,

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Speaker 1: I got the key opening keynote lecture of the Herbalist

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Speaker 1: and Naturopaths conference a couple of weeks ago, and I

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Speaker 1: asked all the audience about two three hundred natropaths there,

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Speaker 1: you know, who's heard of oxymors and about it? Maybe

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Speaker 1: a quarter put that put their hand up. And then

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Speaker 1: when I told them oxyd memes acid mel memes, honey,

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Speaker 1: this is acid vinegar that, oh yeah, the first year

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Speaker 1: in the history of medicine, they mentioned that we never

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Speaker 1: really talked about it. So these are things that I

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Speaker 1: guess there's no industry around it because you can do

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Speaker 1: it yourself. No one's selling you packets and pills and

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Speaker 1: making a big about it. And also beekeeping is hard

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Speaker 1: to make a massive industry because you actually need to

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Speaker 1: someone on the ground tending to the bees, and you

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Speaker 1: need flowers and have one person with a harvester doing

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Speaker 1: one hundred thous makers. It's a small industry.

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Speaker 2: And I guess with that kind of ancient medicine and

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Speaker 2: all of these kind of herbal medicines, naturopathic approaches whatever,

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Speaker 2: as you as you kind of intimated, it's it's not

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Speaker 2: highly commercialable, commercially exploitable, right, especially so there's going to

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Speaker 2: be a whole lot of industry, a whole lot of

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Speaker 2: companies that don't want this to happen, you know, because and.

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Speaker 1: I've seen pushback already. You know, hot and cold bathing,

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Speaker 1: it's such a cheap thing to do. Were having a

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Speaker 1: hot and cold shower, having an ice batha masually controlling

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Speaker 1: to different ice bath companies. Now. In fact, the guys

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Speaker 1: I'm going to meet in America in Arizona, they credit

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Speaker 1: an ice bath company and they just exploded after Joe

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Speaker 1: Rogan was promoting them. So that that's and they say,

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Speaker 1: you know, really beautiful ice bath, but they're twenty grand. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you don't need the twenty brand ice bath to

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Speaker 1: do cold bathing. He just need cold water, which is

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Speaker 1: pretty cheap and easily accessible. And I'm really keen to

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Speaker 1: promote these ideas. I also have products, So I'm making

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Speaker 1: an oximal company, and we'll sell you the best oximal.

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Speaker 1: We have vinegar that we've done research on. It's high polyphenols,

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Speaker 1: got two hundred probiotics. But I also teach you how

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Speaker 1: to make yourself for free. That's how to create a culture.

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Speaker 1: And I think what we really need on the planet

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Speaker 1: right now, or what everyone needs, is to create a

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Speaker 1: wellness culture. And having a culture that supports your well

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Speaker 1: being isn't really about making money. It's actually about making

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Speaker 1: healthy people, and healthy people will create value and make money.

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Speaker 1: So first, my first objective in my life is to

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Speaker 1: how do I co create a culture of wellness that

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Speaker 1: can infect good health? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like just off the top of my head, Like

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Speaker 2: when we think about building a culture of wellness, so

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Speaker 2: I think about obviously I'm writing this down, so food

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Speaker 2: not in order of imports motan's food, sleep, movement, exercise, lifestyle, stress, relationships.

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Speaker 2: The way we socialize has an impact on fucking everything

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Speaker 2: from cellular health to immune system relationships. How would you

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Speaker 2: not prioritize those? But how would you? So if we

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Speaker 2: talk about like we know that people that are lonely

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Speaker 2: and disconnected and isolated and don't feel loved or seen

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Speaker 2: or you know, that affects their immune system and that

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Speaker 2: affects everything from their cellular health up right. And we

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Speaker 2: know that food plays a big role. We know that,

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Speaker 2: you know, not just micros and macros, but all the

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Speaker 2: other shit around that. And then we know that sleep

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Speaker 2: is a big deal, and we know that movement, exercise,

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Speaker 2: you know, incidental activity, occupational activity, lifestyle stress. How would

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Speaker 2: you sort those and what's missing from those jigsaw pieces.

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Speaker 1: So I've been trying to sort it's out for years.

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Speaker 1: And I've got a philosophy of more meaning less words,

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Speaker 1: So how to condense more meaning to f your words?

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Speaker 1: And when you do that, it ends up as poetry.

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Speaker 1: So I've sort of individentally become a poet. I think

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Speaker 1: we shared some of my poet poems in the past,

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Speaker 1: but I have this one poem which I call it

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Speaker 1: the Recipe for Wellness, and it's super simple. It's bathing

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Speaker 1: beautiful water, Prepare delicious food, make the most of every breath,

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Speaker 1: Dance through every mood.

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Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say something about mood then,

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Speaker 2: but okay, not nothing wrong of the moods, but in

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Speaker 2: dance mood.

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Speaker 1: If you want, tend the soil beneath your feet, embraced

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Speaker 1: sunshine from above, share your gifts with all the world,

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Speaker 1: and fill your life with love. Social connection, they say

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Speaker 1: the currency of wellness of connection. Yeah, connection to yourself,

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Speaker 1: with the environment, with other people. And that's ultimately that

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Speaker 1: they're the priorities. And I've got I've got other poems

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Speaker 1: to talk about all the different activities you can do

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Speaker 1: in your life that improve this anxiety, and things you

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Speaker 1: can do if you're anxious, upset, or a fraid or

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Speaker 1: in pain that you can do with your body to

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Speaker 1: relax your body. So there's all these little hacks and tricks,

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Speaker 1: but I really there's it seems to be a big

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Speaker 1: emphasis now on what activities can I do to prevent

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Speaker 1: cancer or to be healthier, to live a long and

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Speaker 1: a healthy life. And people are living their life for

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Speaker 1: the future of not being sick, rather than living their

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Speaker 1: life for the moment and enjoying your life in the moment.

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Speaker 1: And there's a tension between those two. But I really

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Speaker 1: believe if you have the most fulfilling life in each

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Speaker 1: moment and create as much connection as possible in each moment,

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Speaker 1: that's going to pay off down the track.

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Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of us reactive with our health,

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Speaker 2: not proactive, like we wait until something breaks or something

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Speaker 2: falls off or we get terrified. What's the Is that

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Speaker 2: just a fear thing, a laziness thing, or something else.

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Speaker 1: Great business model getting people to.

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Speaker 2: Get from a commercial point of view.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, a great business model, and that really changed

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Speaker 1: my whole career in early nineteen nineties, I just graduated

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Speaker 1: as the doctor and i'd come across a health retreat

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Speaker 1: in Barry Skipsland and I was doing this yoga health

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Speaker 1: retreat and I came across Clean Ornish and his yoga teacher,

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Speaker 1: and he was the first person to prove that you

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Speaker 1: could lifestyle change could reverse heart disease. And he sort

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Speaker 1: of said it, but I sort of paraphrased it. At

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Speaker 1: the time, it was conventional treatment for a heart attack

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Speaker 1: or heart disease was to open up your chest, take

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Speaker 1: a vein from your leg, put that vein across the

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Speaker 1: blockage in your chest, and repeat that every ten years.

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Speaker 1: Because that's what you happened withy It was considered totally

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Speaker 1: radical and extreme to relax, exercise, eat good food, and

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Speaker 1: share your feelings. And I saw that and I was

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Speaker 1: a week in the hospital seeing, yeah, look if you

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Speaker 1: do bypass two, sure you get forty grand, fifty grand.

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Speaker 1: And I was part of the Health Enhancement lifestyle program

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Speaker 1: where we were trying to educate people in a rehab

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Speaker 1: hospital at to see the court and other places to

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Speaker 1: do that. When we were charging four hundred bucks for

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Speaker 1: a lifestyle program and people just weren't interested. They'll paid

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Speaker 1: forty grand for their heart to fix their heart attack

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Speaker 1: because they won't pay four hundred dollars to live a

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Speaker 1: healthy life. So there is a bit of I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's hedonism or people just they don't they

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Speaker 1: want what they want now and they're not really interested

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Speaker 1: in prevention. But I think the whole culture that we

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Speaker 1: have this is where I talk about a culture of wellness,

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Speaker 1: because at the moment, we have a culture of illness. Now,

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Speaker 1: food comes pre poisoned, our water comes pre poisoned, our

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Speaker 1: air is poisoned. The industries, the biggest industries in the

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Speaker 1: world are the ones that make only out of people's units.

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Speaker 1: But it's a great business model, but it's not great

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Speaker 1: for healthy people.

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Speaker 2: Well, and you think about that, you know, how people

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Speaker 2: have paid forty grand for an operation but not four

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Speaker 2: hundred for a wellness program or whatever. Right, And then

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Speaker 2: I think about as an excise scientist, I think about,

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Speaker 2: you know, people paying people putting ozepic in their body right,

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Speaker 2: which essentially, among other things, kills their appetite, whereas and

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Speaker 2: has some pretty disgusting side effects. Whereas they could get

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Speaker 2: you know, albeit a bit longer and a little bit well,

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Speaker 2: a lot more discipline and effort, you know, but obviously

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Speaker 2: with modifying lifestyle factors, you know. But it's it's like

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Speaker 2: people would rather appeal than some kind of work or

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Speaker 2: effort or discomfort, you know. And it's like that's why

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Speaker 2: instant gratification sells. That's why surgery cells because I can

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Speaker 2: just go in and you weave your magic and I

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Speaker 2: come out and you know this is Yeah, this is

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Speaker 2: I think very much indicative of a lot of people's thinking,

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Speaker 2: like quick fixes, magic pills, instant gratification cells.

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Speaker 1: Well what's the saying that instant gratification is not fast

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Speaker 1: enough anymore? Yes, people that right now. And so what

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in is things like that you want to

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Speaker 1: do because they're fun in themselves. So that is the gratification.

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Speaker 1: So I've been making these oximals myself. So it's honey

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Speaker 1: and vinegar and I put herbs in it, and I

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Speaker 1: put a lot of bitter herbs. So you've got the

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Speaker 1: sweet and the sour and the bitter. And what that does,

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Speaker 1: It just sparks your brain off. It tastes like it

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Speaker 1: tastes like sherbet candy. So it's sweet and sound like.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like a dessert wine, and you'll sip it

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Speaker 1: and your brain just does backflips because it's got all

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Speaker 1: these different flavors, and we put leaves, roots, flowers, fruits,

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Speaker 1: and fungi, so it gives a really broad favor profile.

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Speaker 1: You want to have it every day because it's so delicious.

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Speaker 1: And then the side effect is it's super good for

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Speaker 1: you at balancing your blood sugar, it helps gut microbiome,

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Speaker 1: it feels better, you sleep better, you got more energy,

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Speaker 1: it stops the blood sugar spikes. So all these secondary benefits,

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Speaker 1: but they're not the reason why you're having it. The

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Speaker 1: reason why you're having it is it tastes delicious and

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Speaker 1: it feels good to have it. So they're the sort

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Speaker 1: of things I'm interested in.

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Speaker 2: How do I I'm just right now, which is terrible protocol.

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Speaker 2: So it's O X Y M E L right yep

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Speaker 2: Oximal is a mixture of honey and vinegar used as medicine.

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Speaker 2: According to Scientific America. Recently, the mixture is but used

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Speaker 2: been used successfully in biofilm for topical uses on wounds

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Speaker 2: where bacteria has become resistant to antibiotics. Both ingredients have

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Speaker 2: been used historically as antseptics, but the combination blah blah blah. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting because it was one thousand years ago

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Speaker 1: or two thousand ars that they were using this. But

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Speaker 1: last last year there were two big scientific studies published

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Speaker 1: on oximals and one was a review article reviewing all

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Speaker 1: the history of the pre clinical and clinical studies of oximals,

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Speaker 1: and the other study was a really interesting one where

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Speaker 1: they took manuka honey and vinegar and they diluted the

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Speaker 1: manuka honey to the point where it didn't kill bacteria anymore.

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Speaker 1: And they took the vinegar and they diluted that to

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Speaker 1: the point where it didn't kill bacteria anymore. Then they

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Speaker 1: took the two dilutions and mix them together and it

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Speaker 1: did kill bacteria. And what that showed is that there's

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Speaker 1: a different mechanism of action between the honey and the

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Speaker 1: vinegar and that their synergy. So there's a combined effect

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Speaker 1: of honey and vinegar that's effective against bacteria. And what

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Speaker 1: they found there was the vinegar with the highest polyphenols,

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Speaker 1: and polyphenols are like the plants immune system. They're they're

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Speaker 1: the chemicals that the plants used to defend themselves. They're

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Speaker 1: often what really expensive foods are really high in. So

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Speaker 1: coffee and chocolate and red wine and olive oil the

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Speaker 1: high in polyphenols. And they found that the high polyphenol

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Speaker 1: vinegars had a much bigger difference. So they use pomegranate

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Speaker 1: vinegar and date and apple and white wine vinegar. We

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Speaker 1: use kombucha vinegar because green tea actually has more polyphenols

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Speaker 1: than apples or grapes or pomegranites. So the highest polyphenol

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Speaker 1: vineggar you can make is that I know of, is

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Speaker 1: kombucha vinegar. And people can do that at home pretty

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Speaker 1: much for free sugar tea and some water and a

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Speaker 1: bit of time, and you can make your ow kombucha vinegar.

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Speaker 1: And it does does depend on the tea that you use.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are different qualities of tea, and I

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Speaker 1: think there's a reason that tea is actually the most

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Speaker 1: drunk beverage on Earth. He's drug more than coffee or

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Speaker 1: any even just more than water, I think in terms

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Speaker 1: of just as a bear fridge, and it's got a

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Speaker 1: broad flavor profile. But to make a high polyphenol vinegar

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Speaker 1: and mix that with honey, you've got you've got a

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Speaker 1: really potent form of medicine that never gets resistance for

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Speaker 1: antibodic resistance, never builds up against it by films. You know,

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Speaker 1: they did some studies on biofilms and by films bacterial

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Speaker 1: form sheets, especially in the back of your throat or

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Speaker 1: on wounds, and then show that the honey vinegar combinations

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Speaker 1: are super effective against buiofilms.

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Speaker 2: If somebody wants to start, you know, making their own,

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Speaker 2: is there a recipe? Is there is there a Can

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Speaker 2: they go somewhere?

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Speaker 1: Sure? I mean, just they can google it online. I've

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Speaker 1: been studying these recipes because in the past what they

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Speaker 1: do sometimes there was fifty percent vinegar and fhibuous en honey,

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Speaker 1: and they used to boil it. And I think the

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Speaker 1: boiling it was a way to stop it fermenting, because

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Speaker 1: if you don't stop the fermentation, it actually becomes more delicious,

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Speaker 1: It becomes fuzzy, and then it turns to meat and

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Speaker 1: becomes alcoholic, right, so, which is not necessarily bad thing.

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Speaker 1: And actually I've been researching that the origins of meta

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Speaker 1: and that the word need has the same roots as

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Speaker 1: the word medicine. The very first medicines were made from honey.

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Speaker 1: Honey used to be the most most valuable thing on earth.

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Speaker 1: If you if you're a caveman or a hominid, you know,

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Speaker 1: honey is the most dense form of bluecoats. You can

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Speaker 1: a wound or a burn and it will cure the

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Speaker 1: wound or a bern. You can put any other food

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Speaker 1: in it and will preserve the other food. And if

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Speaker 1: you get it wet, it'll ferment and turn it into

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Speaker 1: alcohol and become medicine. So honey is the most amazing substance.

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Speaker 2: So you can get ship faced and treated all at

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Speaker 2: the same time.

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Speaker 1: That's what happens.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. You know when you finished medicine. So you're

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Speaker 2: a doctor, doctor, You're you're a double doctor. You're a

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Speaker 2: medical doctor in Europe.

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Speaker 1: Doctor.

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Speaker 3: I did two PhD so doctor, doctor, doctor, Oh you

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Speaker 3: did too, of course you did, okay, well, before I asked, mate,

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Speaker 3: so what did in what order did you do your doctoring?

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Speaker 1: I start off with Western medicine, then did an honors degree,

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Speaker 1: then took some time off and did a pH d

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Speaker 1: in Chinese medicine, then went back and finished my medical degree,

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Speaker 1: and then did a second PhD in Electrical computer systems engineering.

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Speaker 2: Of course, as you do. Yeah, no, of course, Okay,

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Speaker 2: so you're a three times doctor. Well that is fucking ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: When you when you finished medicine Western medicine and then

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Speaker 2: you headed off to see Dean Cornish and the like

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Speaker 2: Dean Cornish at ol Audis year, did you get push

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Speaker 2: back from you? You know, your your colleagues.

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Speaker 1: Who I have, but not as much as my mentors

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Speaker 1: and the people before me. Right so, And because because

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Speaker 1: I have, you know, got a medical degree in two PhDs,

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Speaker 1: I'm often accepted by the medical fraternity. But and I

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Speaker 1: used to be the head of the Australasian Integrated Medicine Association.

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Speaker 1: I had that at the start of the two thousands,

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Speaker 1: and I was involved integrated medicine and acupuncture research and

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Speaker 1: stuff throughout the nineteen nineties. And most of the research

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Speaker 1: I've done is all the stuff there's no money behind it,

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Speaker 1: meditation and acupuncture and herbal medicine and spas and saunas

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Speaker 1: and things like that, and there has been pushed back,

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Speaker 1: and this still is pushback. You'll read mainstream articles about

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Speaker 1: cold cold water swimming and ice bading and they'll say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: look it does help with depression. But it can kill you,

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Speaker 1: so be careful. You know, they sort of just try

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Speaker 1: and sort of put a damping on it. No pun there.

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Speaker 1: But I haven't had nearly the pushback that there was

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Speaker 1: a generation of doctors before me who are ten fifteen

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Speaker 1: years older than me, who are getting deep and getting

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Speaker 1: attacked at. And I do have colleagues in the integrated

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Speaker 1: medicine community you have been really pushed hard against. And

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Speaker 1: they keep on telling me that a kite flies highest

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Speaker 1: and it's got a strong wind against it. But otherwise

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Speaker 1: I've made a conscious decision in my career and in

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Speaker 1: my life that I don't want to fight against anything.

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Speaker 1: I want to work towards what I want y So

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Speaker 1: I want health and wellness and to have fun. I

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Speaker 1: mean having fun is really high in my values. So

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Speaker 1: all the research on stuff that's fun, you know, health

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Speaker 1: retreats and spars and saunas and hot spring and yoga

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Speaker 1: and meditation, it's all fun stuff. There's not a lot

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Speaker 1: of money in it, but it's really fun rather than

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Speaker 1: sort of trying to fight a system or trying to

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Speaker 1: tackle and there's great people who do that, but that's

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Speaker 1: not me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think also, sometimes you know when people live

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Speaker 2: in a certain eir co chamber, you know, they and

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Speaker 2: they've believed something for a very long time, and they've

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Speaker 2: had a certain operating system and existed in a certain

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Speaker 2: paradigm of thought and behavior and whatever. That also becomes

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Speaker 2: their identity. So if you question anything, you question their

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Speaker 2: identity as well. So yeah, it's very and people are

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Speaker 2: emotional and people are self protecting, and it's like, if

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Speaker 2: you question my belief or my ideology, then you're attacking me,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: And and there's a book called the Four Agreements, which

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Speaker 1: I really love, and let's saying that being peckable with

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Speaker 1: your word, don't take anything personally, don't make assumptions, and

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Speaker 1: do your best. So not taking anything personally is really great.

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Speaker 1: So you know, if they're attacking you, they're not really

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Speaker 1: attacking me. They're just they've got their issues and poor them.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's stead me in good, good position. Throughout

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Speaker 1: there's always detractors, and then sometimes it's been good. Like

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Speaker 1: in the pandemic, people were trolling and saying, oh, you

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Speaker 1: can't talk about Sauls as reducing viral infections because and

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Speaker 1: that it's obviously true. So I end up writing a

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Speaker 1: peer reviewed article about it, just to get back at

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Speaker 1: these people who are try to kick me down. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I published that article, and then I publish

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of articles on hydro thermal facilities because

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Speaker 1: when you're in a sauna, you're improve your immune system

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Speaker 1: and it'll dissolve any viruses, say they melt. And because

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Speaker 1: of that article, I've been told in Europe that was

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Speaker 1: translated into half a dozen languages, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: spar centers were allowed to open because of that research.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes it is good to get you back up.

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Speaker 1: And you know, my tendency is just really to follow

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Speaker 1: the stuff that I love doing, rather than trying to

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Speaker 1: fight against something else.

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Speaker 2: So while I've got you here, I want to I'm

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Speaker 2: going to I'm going to use you a little bit. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So infrared sauna or steamwre sauna.

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Speaker 1: Whatever makes you sweat. There's been no studies comparing the two.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, I had a PhD student SHOWI Hassan,

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Speaker 1: who's a brilliant medical doctor. She did a PhD. It's

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Speaker 1: eight years researching saunas, and we were going to do

431
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 1: the first ever human clinical trial comparing infrared sauna with

432
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: traditional with exercise. She was doing this with the Queensland

433
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: Institute of Sport. We had it all set up and

434
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: then their traditional sauna busted and then the pandemic hits.

435
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: So we ended up doing the study, but we didn't

436
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 1: use the traditional sauna, so we didn't we compared disordering

437
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 1: with exercise. We looked at detoxification and the effects on

438
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: the heart, but we didn't compare directly infrared with traditional sauna.

439
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: I had it both home. I'm pretty privileged. I yes,

440
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: I was given an infrared sauna about fifteen years ago,

441
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: which I still haven't. I built a traditional sauna, and

442
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: I prefer the traditional sauna because I love putting. I

443
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 1: love the steam. I loved able to loft the steam

444
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: around and wave it around. I love putting cold water

445
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: on my body when I'm in the sauna. Putting squater

446
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: on your head or on your feet when you're really

447
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: hot is just super delightful, and you can't do that

448
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: the red sauna. But I think that the benefit it.

449
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 4: Really is from the stress and sweating and doing something

450
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 4: you don't really we want to do, or doing something

451
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 4: to the point where you're comfortably uncomfortable.

452
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 2: MM.

453
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: So, whether it's an infrared fat or a hot bath

454
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. If it's if it's hot enough

455
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: to make you sweat and turn on your physiological air conditioning. Yeah,

456
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: your panther willle bit, your heart beats harder, you know,

457
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: you sweat, you turn on your heat shop proteins and

458
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: all of those biochemical things that happen. That's the benefit.

459
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: So how do you get there? I think is less important.

460
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 2: I know there's a lot of variables around kind of

461
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 2: cold water immersion and ice bars and cold showers and

462
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 2: because you know, the temperature of the tap border in

463
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: Melbourne is probably different to Queensland, to work of course.

464
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: But pretty cold this morning. Yeah, this morning it was

465
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 1: like six six degrees out of the shower or something exactly.

466
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: So is there if somebody's thinking, you know what, I

467
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: want to introduce a little bit of cold water or

468
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 2: cold showers into my life? Is there a Is there

469
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 2: are kind of an optimal time one to three minutes

470
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 2: or something.

471
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: I credit a little song and dance for this expression.

472
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: I don't know, I told me you set me up.

473
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 1: So I did a lecture series about seven eight years

474
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 1: ago with Wim Half When I was I was talking

475
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: about the science of the wim Holf method, and all

476
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 1: the vow for males, all the full on by fighters

477
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: and martial artists were all getting into the ice bath.

478
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 1: And then I ran a retreat at wing Ghana, which

479
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: was a luxury hell to treat in Queensland, and they

480
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: were like autun seventy year old mostly females, who said,

481
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: we're not going to get into the cold water. We

482
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: don't we don't do cold and I was I sort

483
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: of worked, O, how can we make it appealing for them?

484
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: And I came up with little song and dance. I

485
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 1: call it the cold water Hokey pokey, so you can

486
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: do it home in the shower and and it makes

487
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: it really easy. But basically what you do you start

488
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: off with the hot shower, and everyone loves the hot shower,

489
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: and you get well, you get hot. Then at the

490
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,479
Speaker 1: end of that you turn the heat up a little bit,

491
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: so a bit prickly hot and a bit flushed. And

492
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: then the hardest part of the whole thing, the hardest

493
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: part of any cold water immersion is the decision to

494
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: do it. It's jumping into the swimming pool or just

495
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: getting wet that's making that decision the hardest if you

496
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: make the decision, you're going to do it. So you

497
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: turn the hot water off and the cold water on,

498
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: but you just wet your left foot, right, it's okay,

499
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: you know you're hot, and your left foot. Then you

500
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: do your leg, and then you do your right foot.

501
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: In your leg, your left hands and arm and your

502
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: other hand and arm. And what that does. It pushes

503
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: the warm blood. It constricts the book blood vessels in

504
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: your arms and legs, and that pushes all this warm

505
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: blood into your core. So you're still feeling warm even

506
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: though your arms and legs are cold. Keep breathing calmly

507
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: and smile to yourself, because that's what it's all about,

508
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: breathing calmly and smiling to yourself, being comfortably uncomfortable. And

509
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: then you take a really big breath in and as

510
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: you as you're slowly breathing out, you put your left

511
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: side in, And normally, when you putst side in, the

512
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: water would hit your neck where the blood vessels are

513
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 1: close to the surface, and that courses you. That would

514
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 1: normally cause you for gasp, and that's the cold water

515
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 1: hypeer ventilation reaction. But if you're already breathing out slowly.

516
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: When you do that, you don't but you do feel

517
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: the cold, but it doesn't have that emotional shot to it.

518
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 1: So you just slowly breathing out. You put your left

519
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: side in and you're right side in and your front

520
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: side in, and you chain yourself around. Then keep calmly

521
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: and smile to yourself, because that's what it's all about.

522
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: And then you put your whole head in. If you

523
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: take a big breath as you're brething out and you

524
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: put your whole head in, move your head around, stand still,

525
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: get a drenching, slowly turn yourself around, continue breathing, calmly,

526
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: smile to yourself. That's what it's all about. And then

527
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: you go poke you put the water on your groin,

528
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: water on your kidneys, oh hokey, pokey, put the water

529
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: on your armpits, and then all the places vessels come

530
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: close to the surface. And you'll find if you do

531
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: that that takes about one minute. You end up standing

532
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: under the cold shower quite comfortably. And at that point

533
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: you're breathing comfortably and you can turn it off and

534
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: get out and you'll feel tingly and alive. And you've

535
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: started to day singing and dancing and doing something that

536
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: you didn't want to do, which makes everything else that

537
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: you don't want to do. If there's that conversation or

538
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: that job or that mess you have to clean up,

539
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: you've already practiced that whellpower of just getting along with

540
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: it and doing it. So that's that's and it doesn't

541
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: cost any money. You don't need a membership, you don't

542
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,959
Speaker 1: need special clothes, you have to do anything other than

543
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: cold shower, so that's that's super easy. Or you can

544
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: buy a twenty grand Icepa and like yourself with the

545
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: whole hot tub scene room my spa sorta situation. So it's,

546
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: as I say, there's high endways to do it, there's

547
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: always a way you can do it quite inexpensively.

548
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: Well, definitely in Melbourne, Like I try to finish my

549
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: showers with about a minute of just no no hot

550
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: water at all. And when I first started, it's fucking horrible,

551
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: but it just gets it gets more and more, like

552
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: you get used to it over time and you get

553
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: out and there's just a lights up my brain like

554
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 2: a Christmas tree. It's just it's a really good feeling.

555
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: And also I think, you know, I don't really do

556
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: it for this but for me, there's a real psychological

557
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: and emotional benefit as well as the physiological like I

558
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 2: feel great, I feel more energetic, but I also feel

559
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 2: clarity and I you know, I what in terms of

560
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 2: like treating mental health using these kinds of mechanisms and treatments,

561
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: you know, and like depression and anxiety and which is

562
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: pretty rampant mental health, you know, and rather than reaching

563
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 2: for an anti axiotic or an antis So there is.

564
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: Good research on that. But again the problem is there

565
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: are a lot of research on cold water swimming as

566
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: an antidepressant. Yeah, it's not an industry. No one's making

567
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: money out of it, so it's not really widely promoted,

568
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: whereas prozacs are multi billion dollars and drug And just

569
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: on that point, one of my PhD students is I'm

570
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: Lauren Burns. She was or she's graduated now. So Lauren Burns.

571
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: She won the gold medalp for taekwon do at the

572
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: Sydney Olympics and she's an absolute champion of a human

573
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: being but also a world champion athlete. And in her

574
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: PhD she interviewed people who are multiple world champions and

575
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: asked the how do you set the top of your game,

576
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: how do you how do you say the best in

577
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: the world in your sport over multiple years? What do

578
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: you do, what do you think? How do you perform?

579
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: You know, what do you how do you practice? And

580
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: she were published a few papers on that, and you know,

581
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: mindset was the biggest factor. Social connection came up really strong,

582
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: and they hadn't been widely talked about. But one of

583
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: the things we did was ice bathing, and when we

584
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: interviewed them, or when Lauren interviewed them, they said that

585
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: they started doing ice bathing for recovery, but they kept

586
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: on doing it for the mental health benefits because when

587
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: they when they were doing in the ice part, they're

588
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: just in the in the ice part, that they're not

589
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: thinking about the past and the future, what their competition's doing,

590
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: and just gave them mental discipline and that clarity and

591
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: that focus. So and that was that hadn't been talked

592
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: about widely before. And this was there was one Lane Beachley,

593
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: who was the surfing World champion. She but she spent

594
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,479
Speaker 1: most of the time in cold water anyway. But all

595
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: of the other athletes she interviewed who are multiple world

596
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: champions areadio icepaving and I all said it was for

597
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: the mental health benefits, not to the physical recovery and benefits.

598
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we love Laurence. She was on here a couple

599
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 2: of weeks ago. She's a gun And I think also

600
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: unis A did did some research looking at exercise as

601
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 2: a treatment for depression, which like really really really outperformed drugs.

602
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: So bottle it. It'd be the most successful drug ever.

603
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, What's what's something that if anything that you've you

604
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: have ever done a one ad on where you got

605
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: something wrong, or you were taught told train something that

606
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 2: you later on went that's bullshit, or or there's a

607
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: much better way. Is there anything that you've either done

608
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 2: a one id on or really had to unlearn something.

609
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: That's a great question. I haven't haven't thought about that before.

610
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot, a lot that I learned

611
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: in medicine that is now no longer true, even though

612
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: I was taught it thirty forty years ago when I

613
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: was studying medicine. I mean, all the discussion about brown

614
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: fat we were taught, you know, there's no brown fat

615
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: in the in the adult body. It's only in babies

616
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: and hibernating animals and that's that's been a one ady

617
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: for the medical community, not me personally, who are saying,

618
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: oh yeah, brown and fats in everybody and you can

619
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: develop it, and that the process you've described earlier where

620
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: you gradually get used to the cold, that was a

621
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: process that everyone went through every year one hundred years

622
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: ago before we had central heating. That as the winter

623
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: got gone on, it got each dag a little bit colder,

624
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: and you built up your brown fat stores and the

625
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: brown fat actually makes heat and protects you from the cold.

626
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: So that's there's all a whole lot of research now

627
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: about brown fatter and people using it, but improving brown

628
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: fat to lose weights because brown fat eats up white

629
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: fatter uses white fatter's fuel to generate heat. But I

630
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: think the benefit it's not so much for the weight loss,

631
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: it's for the metabolic benefits that you get. So that's

632
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: that's where the medical communities change. The other thing I

633
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: guess is the whole our whole attitude of bacteria. Again

634
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: forty years ago and I started medicine, the bacteria of

635
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: the enemy. You know, you needed antibiotics and germs were bad.

636
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: You know, you want to disinfect into antibiotics and all

637
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: these things, and now we're realizing, hey, germs are actually

638
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: the best thing ever. They're actually supporting our health and

639
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: not just in our gus. One of the biggest revelations

640
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: I had just it was only three four years ago,

641
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 1: this was published talking about the skin micro bio that

642
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: when I when I started medicine, we were taught you

643
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 1: the service area your skin is one point eight square meters,

644
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: which is about the size of the single bed. If

645
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: I skinned you and lay your skin out, it's about

646
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: the size of a single bed.

647
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 2: But then they realize there's a thought yeah, and then

648
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: they use.

649
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: That measurement for measuring the size of burns and the

650
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: proportion of the body for different things. But then someone calculated, oh, well,

651
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: there's actually three million sweatlands on the body and all

652
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: these sabaceous plans every time that the skin dips down

653
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: and comes back up, and if you stretch that out,

654
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: it's thirty square meters. It's the size of a cat.

655
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: And all those little glands in the sweatlands and the

656
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: sabacious glands when the skip the skin dives down, that's

657
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: where the bacteria live and those plans secrete oils that

658
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 1: support good bacteria, and those oils protect you from protect

659
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 1: your skin from drying out, They protect your skin sun

660
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: from sun damage, and in cancer and sunburn. They also

661
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: feed the good bacteria that protect you from infection. And

662
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: that's that was never talked about in the past. And

663
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: what I've realized is when you bathe in chlorine, you

664
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: oxidize those oils and you get rid of those those

665
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: good bacteria, and you actually make your skin more prone

666
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: to drying out, more prone to sun damage, more prone

667
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 1: to wrinkles and aging, and more prone to infection. Wow.

668
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: So that's yeah, And that's that's when you think about it.

669
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, chlorinees and oxidizer. It kills bacteria. If you

670
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: if you're washing your skin with that, it's kind of

671
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: stripped the natural oils off. But those are your protection.

672
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 1: So that was a revelation to me. And I've always

673
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: been really keen on water, you know, and I do

674
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 1: have a water filled company and I promote that, but

675
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: it was really these and the whole water industry is

676
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: a it's a whole nother rabbit hole because water is

677
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: so complicated. But one of the simplest things you can

678
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,720
Speaker 1: do to change your health is just improved the quality

679
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: of your water.

680
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 2: So is that just by filtering? I mean, obviously water

681
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 2: that's sitting in a plastic bottle in a hot car,

682
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 2: that's just a try. Can you just explain to people

683
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 2: what salts are and what they.

684
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: Do and disruptives. So falets are a type of plastic.

685
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: They're used in a whole lot of they're often us

686
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 1: in fragrance, so they make the smells last longer in

687
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 1: the air. And but microplastics in water is one of

688
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: the biggest issues. I think it was the University of

689
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: New South Wales did some research about four or five

690
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: years ago and they used to make it in Australia

691
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: and pretty much everyone in the western world eats a

692
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: credit card of plastic the week A week.

693
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 2: A week.

694
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: I thought that was I thought that was a year.

695
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: Look it up.

696
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:41,479
Speaker 2: And that's because that's because plastic, among other things, there's

697
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 2: plastic in our water. And when we have a plastic

698
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 2: bottle filled with water, especially when it's sitting anywhere near sun,

699
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 2: it leaches plastic into the water. Right.

700
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: And the think about the companies that make in a

701
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 1: bottled water, they don't make the water, they make plastic bottles.

702
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: Water but yeah, we need a credit CARDO plastic week.

703
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: Most of that comes from our water. Yeah, I do

704
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 1: the microplastics everywhere. Now there's nanoplastics, which is the next level.

705
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: So you're talking about thal aides and endochrome disrupting chemicals

706
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: that hang out on the plastics, and a lot of

707
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: those chemicals are what we call obe sigents. They make

708
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: you a bet, they take your commodal system, and they

709
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: cause infertility, and their carcinogenics they cause cancers. So pretty

710
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: much all the diseases of the modern world you can

711
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: trace back to us polluting ourselves, which is tragic when

712
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: you think about it. But again, I'd rather than try

713
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: and fight pollution, I'd say, Okay, how do we clean

714
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: it up? And how do we live without that? So

715
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: you filtery of water, and there are ways to do that.

716
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: You can even if you don't have a water filter

717
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 1: at home. If you've got a hot bath, you can

718
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: turn on the bath really hot, put the fan on

719
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: and wait twenty minutes and the chlorine will evaporate out.

720
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: And I do that in hotels and stuff, and I'm traveling,

721
00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: so there are ways to get rid of CHLORI out

722
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 1: of it. A system and when you do that, your

723
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: skin changes, actually you feel better the surface. There's lots

724
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: of little things that you can do, but affecting your

725
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 1: water and obviously food as well, just plastic packaging and food,

726
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: so that the increase in endocrime disrupting chemicals, not just

727
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: stalates but also I mean pfasts. They were talking about

728
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: the perfluorinated compounds and the forever chemicals. There's made a

729
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: couple of minutes about it recently. It's just a global

730
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: disaster and there's no living organism on Earth that isn't

731
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: impacted by these chemicals. Down at the bottom of the

732
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: Mariana Trench ten kilometers down at the bottom of the

733
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: ocean to the top of Mount Everest, they're found microplastics. Yeah, yeah.

734
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 2: Have you heard of a guy called David Gillespie who

735
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 2: wrote Sweet Poison?

736
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 1: Oh no, I haven't. Yeah.

737
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he's one of Australia's most prolific writers. Is

738
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 2: a lawyer, but is a researcher, he's an inventor. Is

739
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 2: a little bit like you, and that he's quirky. You're quirky,

740
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 2: you know you're quirky. But he's a fucking genius. And yeah,

741
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: he and I talk. We do an episode once a fortnite,

742
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 2: and he's dead against seed oils and daletes and endocrime disruptors,

743
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 2: and he talks a lot about it, talks a lot

744
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 2: about the dumb shit we do to our body basically.

745
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 2: But he was talking recently, we're talking him. He was

746
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: wheeling out these figures about the rapidly declining testosterone production

747
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 2: in men, you know, and what the average how much

748
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: testosterone I can't remember the numbers, but it's like, compared

749
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 2: to seventy or eighty years ago, it's crazily low.

750
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,439
Speaker 1: And he was suggesting that boom counts had gone down

751
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: too dramatically.

752
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, sperm count sorry, that's what I meant is plummeted.

753
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 2: And he was saying that within the next ten to

754
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 2: fifteen years that like a lot of like a fair

755
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 2: percentage of males won't be able to produce enough sperm

756
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 2: to get someone pregnant. Essentially, like fertility.

757
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: Look at infertility is an epidemic in the modern world. Yes,

758
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: that's the way. Ten fifteen years, so a lot of

759
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: couples have infertility issues, are having a sistive fertility because

760
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 1: the normal system doesn't work anymore.

761
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. So in terms of moving forward,

762
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 2: if somebody wants to do like a little bit of

763
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 2: a stock take on their own life, you know, their

764
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 2: own lifestyle is there, and I know there's no three

765
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 2: step plan for anything, doc, But if somebody is listening

766
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,479
Speaker 2: to this and they're like, where do I start? Because

767
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 2: when we go, oh, well, there's food, and there's sleep,

768
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 2: and there's lifestyle, and there's stress and anxiety, and then

769
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 2: there's booze and there's you know, there's should we take

770
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: Should I take a drug for this? Or should I

771
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 2: have a cold shower? Or if somebody wants to, for

772
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 2: want of a better term, start to renovate their life

773
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 2: or change their operating system, where might they start?

774
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: I think you need to start where it's easy, where

775
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 1: you enjoy it, so and start with something you can

776
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 1: actually keep going on. Ye, So, and it all starts

777
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,879
Speaker 1: with the decision to do it so that that will power.

778
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: So like hot and cold shower, that's a great place

779
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: to start because you're exercising will power. You don't need

780
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: to buy any equipment. You know, you can just do it.

781
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: And that little cold water hockey pokey I talked about,

782
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: you can just start with the first you know, you

783
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:37,919
Speaker 1: can spend a week just on your arms and legs

784
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 1: and then work up to the second verse, and then

785
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: you can do the whole thing. So I think you

786
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: want to do baby steps. You want to do something

787
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: that's sustainable. You want to do something that's fun, because

788
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: otherwise you're not going to keep it up, you know,

789
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: whether it's going you're getting a gym membership or doing

790
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: you know, jogging every morning or something. Unless it's fun

791
00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 1: for you, it's hard to keep up. And then one

792
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: of the really effective things I found is changing your

793
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 1: flavor profile by having more bitters in your life. Right,

794
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: and if you have more bitter, this is a Chinese

795
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: medicine sort of knowledge, you reduce sweet cravings. Most people

796
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: get their business from coffee and chocolate. That's where they

797
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: get their polyphenols as well, actually occidents in our life.

798
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: But increasing your range of business, so having and please

799
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: do that in Europe, and having a pair of teeth

800
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: before dinner, you know, a digestive with business, prepare your

801
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: liver for digestion and opens up your palace so you

802
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: enjoy your food more. You tend to eat less, you

803
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: tend to enjoy your food more, you digest better, and

804
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 1: you don't get the big blood sugar spike and it

805
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 1: actually stops you craving sweets. So tweaking your flavor profile

806
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: is much easier than going on a diet for meaning

807
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: your body to enjoy good food. Never even sort of that.

808
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 2: So where are you off? Do you go on somewhere

809
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 2: next week?

810
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: Where you go? I'm going to Phoenix, Arizona, So I'm

811
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: going for the shore to stay to the longest day

812
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: and it's forty six degrees integrated there today. But I'm

813
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: at an ice bath conference. There's Morosco Forge, there's an

814
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: ice bath company that have blown up with Joe Rogan support,

815
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: and they're bringing you a whole lot of a whole

816
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: about a dozen researchers on ice bath. They're a beta,

817
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 1: talk to each other and plan a conference for next year.

818
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: So and they invited me to go. I said, yeah,

819
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: why might sounds like fun meet some good people.

820
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 2: How ironic? How ironic that you go into one of

821
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 2: the hottest places on earth for an ice bath conference?

822
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: Exactly, that's hilarious.

823
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: How do people how do people find you doc and

824
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 2: connect with you and follow you?

825
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: I'm not super active on socials. I do have a

826
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: Facebook and LinkedIn profiles just Mark Mark with a sea,

827
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: and I have a website Doctor Mark d M A

828
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: r C dot co. And I've got a lot of

829
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 1: poems and all my academic I've got one hundred academic

830
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: papers and books and products and stuff that they can

831
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: get from my website. But i do try and post

832
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: about my life on Facebook and LinkedIn just to keep

833
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: people up to date with what I'm doing. And I'm

834
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: really open to having people contact me and yeah, where

835
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: I can, I can provide some value.

836
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 2: Well, we appreciate you. Will say goodbye here, but once again, Enlightening,

837
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 2: thanks for coming to have a chat on you project.

838
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: Great. It's always great to chat with you. Pray we

839
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: do it again sometime. Thanks TOC