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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, April one, twenty twenty six. Cheaper fuel prices

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Speaker 1: kick in today after the Federal government's two point six

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Speaker 1: billion dollar move to ease the pain caused by war

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Speaker 1: in Iran. That'll make Jim chalmers fifth budget more of

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Speaker 1: a spendeth on than he originally wanted. But the treasure

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Speaker 1: is also reveling in a sixty billion dollar windfall. All

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Speaker 1: the details are live now at the Australian dot com

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Speaker 1: dot a u. Vaping is bad for you, really bad.

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Speaker 1: New research shows e cigarettes are likely to cause lung

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Speaker 1: and oral cancers, and scientists are urging vapors to quit

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Speaker 1: now instead of waiting for disease to develop. Today Senior

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Speaker 1: health reporter Penny Tims on how this shakes up our

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Speaker 1: ideas about big tobacco and a new generation with a

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Speaker 1: seriously dangerous habit. Penny Tims is a senior health reporter

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Speaker 1: with The Australian and this sounds like an absolute bombshell,

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Speaker 1: apparently sucking in a whole lot of chemicals with a

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Speaker 1: little red light and then puffing out a giant cloud

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Speaker 1: of steam is not good for you.

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Speaker 2: I know, who would have thought, right, who would have thought?

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Speaker 1: What's the latest on vapes?

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Speaker 2: Look, this is.

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Speaker 3: Some really astounding research coming out of Australia. So essentially

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Speaker 3: there's been a group of scientists from Australia who have

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Speaker 3: deemed that it is likely that nicotine vapes do cause cancer.

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Speaker 3: Now specifically we're talking about lung and certain oral cancers.

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Speaker 3: And this is actually the first time that such definitive

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Speaker 3: proof has really been put forward by the scientific community.

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Speaker 3: So it's likely to get some controversy, but that's ultimately

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Speaker 3: what's been put forward by these scientists from Australia.

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Speaker 1: Vapes haven't existed for a very long time, and one

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Speaker 1: of the things we know about smoking is that you

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Speaker 1: might go through many, many decades of smoking in relatively

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Speaker 1: good health apart from having a hacking cough and cut

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Speaker 1: of orange fingertips. How do scientists know that vapes are

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Speaker 1: causing cancer? Is it that quick to develop?

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Speaker 3: It's not, And this is one of the really tricky

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Speaker 3: parts of this entire research. So this is not definitive proof.

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Speaker 3: And the reason it's not definitive is that it takes

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Speaker 3: decades for that proof to come through and vapes have

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Speaker 3: really only been on the market for about twenty years,

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Speaker 3: and for really that first ten years of their sale,

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Speaker 3: they weren't that popular. And so it's really only been

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Speaker 3: in the last ten years or so that we've seen

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Speaker 3: them really take off, and especially in the last five years.

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Speaker 2: And so you.

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Speaker 3: Need a population of people who have only smoked vapes

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Speaker 3: in order to get that definitive proof, and we.

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Speaker 2: Don't have that yet.

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Speaker 3: So these scientists have said, look, we don't have time

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Speaker 3: to wait. It took one hundred years for them to

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Speaker 3: figure out that cigarettes caused cancer, and they said, we

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Speaker 3: don't have time to wait like that. Essentially, they're now

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Speaker 3: looking at different markers in the body, so buyer markers

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Speaker 3: and all these other different variants that give them some

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Speaker 3: clues about cellular change and have said that those cellular

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Speaker 3: changes are happening already and that that should be an

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Speaker 3: early borning sign and that the world really needs to

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Speaker 3: take notice of that and not repeat the mistakes of

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Speaker 3: the past.

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Speaker 2: With big tobacco, Big.

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Speaker 1: Tobacco shifted its business model to vapes kind of starting

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Speaker 1: in the early nineteen nineties when we started seeing evidence

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Speaker 1: with tobacco. Companies had known that their products were A

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Speaker 1: addictive and B carcinogenic. They then faced plane packaging legislation

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Speaker 1: around the world, rules on where you could smoke. It's

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Speaker 1: now impossible to really smoke inside any building almost anywhere

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Speaker 1: in the Western world at least, and so big tobacco

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Speaker 1: companies changed their business model to manufacture vapes. But they

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Speaker 1: have always said that vapes were a cessation tool and

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Speaker 1: in fact, what they were doing helping their customers to

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Speaker 1: not smoke anymore, if that's what they chose. The big

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Speaker 1: tobacco companies are all about choice. That's part of their rhetoric.

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Speaker 1: Is there any evidence that vapes weerever actually a cessation tool?

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Speaker 1: Was the whole point to get people addicted?

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Speaker 2: This is such an interesting point.

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Speaker 3: There is new research that has come out of Ohio

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Speaker 3: University in the last couple of years that have shown

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Speaker 3: that they're not actually that great for cessation, that they

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Speaker 3: are not doing that job. This has always been a

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Speaker 3: huge argument, and it's really really intense the arguments. You

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Speaker 3: get lobbied by either side who say yes, they're fantastic

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Speaker 3: for it.

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Speaker 2: Or no they're not.

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Speaker 3: What this research out of Ohio had shown was that

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Speaker 3: people who did turn to vaping to try to reduce

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Speaker 3: smoking or cut it out completely.

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Speaker 2: Fifty percent actually.

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Speaker 3: Then just took up both and so then they had

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Speaker 3: this double whammy of sort of flirting between cigarettes and

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Speaker 3: vabes and then their chance of getting these cancers that

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Speaker 3: astronomically risen. And so a lot of doctors and a

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Speaker 3: lot of scientists have sort of said, look, the proof

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Speaker 3: just is not there. We keep on hearing this rhetoric

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Speaker 3: from big tobacco that it is helping, and there's definitely

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Speaker 3: a lot of supporters on there. In the UK, for example,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of support for this notion that vapes

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Speaker 3: are fantastic for reducing smoking. But our scientists here just say, look,

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Speaker 3: the data is just not backing that up. There's just

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Speaker 3: not the proof to say that that has actually happened.

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Speaker 1: It's so sad to see people kind of caught in

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Speaker 1: the attempt to quit smoking. Of course, there are phone

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Speaker 1: hotlines and websites and self help books. I've got a

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Speaker 1: friend who took up nicoretes, the gum and patches to

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Speaker 1: stop smoking. So now he smokes, wears a patch and

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Speaker 1: to choose nicorettes. He needs to I think needs to

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Speaker 1: add vaping too his repertoire because there's a bit of

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Speaker 1: time still left in the day. But Australia really took

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Speaker 1: quite serious action about vapes in recent years. Has that worked.

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Speaker 3: This has been another interesting point to see whether or

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Speaker 3: not of laws to make vates illegal unless they're for

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Speaker 3: therapeutic reasons. So far, the data is really limited, but

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Speaker 3: it's actually suggesting that maybe it is working.

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Speaker 2: So the data that we've sort of.

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Speaker 3: Seen is that from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: two we were seeing some pretty extraordinary rates. So there

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Speaker 3: was a high school study that was done of high

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Speaker 3: school students across the nation and it showed that thirty

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Speaker 3: percent had tried vaping in that twenty twenty one to

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty two year period. Thirteen percent of those age

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Speaker 3: twelve to fourteen had vaped in the past month, and

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Speaker 3: when you look at sixteen and seventeen year olds, that

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Speaker 3: rose to twenty two percent.

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Speaker 2: That now has actually.

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Speaker 3: Gone down somewhat in the most recent survey that was

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Speaker 3: conducted in twenty twenty four. So it is going to

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Speaker 3: be interesting to see whether or not this newer generation

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Speaker 3: does actually start to continue turning away from vates. But

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Speaker 3: at the same time, there's this age group of eighteen

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Speaker 3: to twenty four year olds that have actually just astronomically

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Speaker 3: taken it up, and so we're seeing this huge rise

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Speaker 3: in that one particular age group, just above the teens,

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Speaker 3: and so that's really quite concerning because you know, if

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Speaker 3: they continue to turn to these bapes and then turn

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Speaker 3: to cigarettes as well, their risk of developing cancer does

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Speaker 3: increase quite considerably.

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Speaker 1: Those were people who entered their early teens in the

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Speaker 1: era of plane packaging legislation and you know, big legislative

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Speaker 1: change here in Australia brought in by the Gillard government

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Speaker 1: which dramatically reduced smoking rates officially, and we are going

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Speaker 1: to ensure that.

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Speaker 4: In Australia there are no remaining avenues for tobacco companies

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Speaker 4: to market and promote their products, particularly to young people.

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Speaker 4: Go on other days where people can pretend that cigarettes

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Speaker 4: are glamorous.

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Speaker 1: But what happened at the same time is that the

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Speaker 1: government started ramping up the cigarette excise, which means a

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Speaker 1: legitimate packet of cigarettes at the supermarket of the Servo

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Speaker 1: are now sixty dollars maybe. So now there's a huge

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Speaker 1: black market and there's a low barrier to entry. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's not considered criminal, even though it is to go

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Speaker 1: and buy a packet of cigarettes at a dodgy convenience

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Speaker 1: store that are manufactured in god knows where. So the

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Speaker 1: fact that the eighteen to twenty four year olds are

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Speaker 1: taking it up, also despite the fact that they're quite

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Speaker 1: a healthy group of people in other ways, is really sad,

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Speaker 1: isn't it It is.

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Speaker 2: It's really really sad.

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Speaker 3: And I think that one of the really concerning things

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Speaker 3: from my perspective. So I read a lot of studies

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Speaker 3: and investigations into what is in these cigarettes and what

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Speaker 3: is in these vapes. And the one problem with the

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Speaker 3: laws that we do have is that while it does

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Speaker 3: seem as though perhaps they are helping to reduce some

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Speaker 3: vaping and smoking numbers, the products that are here are

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Speaker 3: unregulated and that's a real concern because of the studies

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Speaker 3: that have been done, we've seen really high levels of

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Speaker 3: nicotine in these vapes, extremely high, So people aren't realizing

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Speaker 3: just how much nicotine they're getting out of these vapes.

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Speaker 3: It's way higher than what you get in a cigarette.

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Speaker 3: And I just don't think that younger people are really

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Speaker 3: aware of that addictiveness. And until they decide that they

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Speaker 3: do actually want to come off them, and then it's

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Speaker 3: really hard because if you come off vapes, there's not

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Speaker 3: really much help in your nicotine level, in your nicotine

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Speaker 3: addiction is probably really, really high. And so I've heard

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Speaker 3: anecdotal stories of people saying, you know, I went to

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Speaker 3: my GP to ask for help, and my GP is

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Speaker 3: kind of stuck because my nicotine addiction was just so high.

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Speaker 2: And it's really problematic.

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Speaker 3: And as you said, like, I think we've got this

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Speaker 3: generation that is so obsessed with health, and I think

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Speaker 3: that's a fantastic thing. They're so engaged with it, But

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Speaker 3: there's this one side of it. You know, it doesn't

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Speaker 3: matter how healthy you are in certain parts of your life,

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Speaker 3: if you've got this one glaring problem, it doesn't reduce

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Speaker 3: your cancer risk.

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Speaker 1: Coming up. Big tobaccos always insisted they could help provide

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Speaker 1: the solution. Were they right. All along the tobacco companies

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Speaker 1: would say, well, you know, unfortunately, you can't regulate this

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Speaker 1: black market and you can't control what's in these dodgy products.

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Speaker 1: We are a legal industry. Regulate us, let us sell

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Speaker 1: products without a massive exercise that makes them unaffordable and

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Speaker 1: then you can monitor the results and do all the

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Speaker 1: cessation campaigns you want to do. Are they right?

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Speaker 3: Look, a lot of the scientists and researchers who I've

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Speaker 3: been speaking with on this issue for years now, they

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Speaker 3: don't think that that's right. They don't think that the

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Speaker 3: cigarettes and the fates should be available. They do not

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Speaker 3: think that at all. They all are pretty supportive of

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Speaker 3: Australia's approach that being a banning, and that has actually

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Speaker 3: surprised me because I was sort of of that thinking

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Speaker 3: that perhaps it would be better to actually know what's

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Speaker 3: in the products and reduce that black market, so that

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Speaker 3: at least you know the products that are on the streets,

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Speaker 3: you know what's in them. But a lot of the

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Speaker 3: scientists have just sort of said, look, we don't think

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Speaker 3: so it's pretty strong the evidence is showing that there

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Speaker 3: is being some cut through. Sydney University does a lot

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Speaker 3: of research into this area and they've certainly said that

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Speaker 3: their most recent studies have certainly shown that the messaging

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Speaker 3: is getting through about the health impacts of smoking and vaping, and.

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Speaker 2: They're pretty overall hopeful that things can start to come down.

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Speaker 3: With a caveat that authorities really do need to ensure

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Speaker 3: that they are doing these raids on these tobacconists that

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Speaker 3: are selling very obviously shapes.

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Speaker 1: And they're marketed at children too. They've got flavors like,

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Speaker 1: you know, blueberry and sort of candy floors. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: In Sydney there was a store that was found to

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Speaker 3: be just down the road from the PM's electorate office

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Speaker 3: that was sort of flogging itself and sort of you know,

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Speaker 3: had all these little toys.

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Speaker 2: Everywhere, and you know they were trying to attract children.

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Speaker 3: It's so disturbing when you look at just how potentially

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Speaker 3: damaging this can be, and you don't want young kids

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Speaker 3: addicted to this stuff at such a young age. Oh

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Speaker 3: my goodness. Their bodies are developing, their bodies are growing.

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Speaker 3: They still need to ensure that, you know, they're organs

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Speaker 3: and everything go strong and healthy and set them up

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Speaker 3: for a really long and happy life.

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Speaker 1: But in some healthy addictions like chocolate and alcohol, exactly exactly.

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Speaker 2: Go back to the phones. Boom scroll.

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Speaker 1: Penny Tims, thank you very much, Thank you. Penny Tims

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Speaker 1: is a senior health reporter with The Australian. You can

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Speaker 1: check out the nation's best coverage of wellbeing, lifestyle and

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Speaker 1: medicine right now at the Australian dot com dot you

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Speaker 1: slash health