1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: This is a little concerning. A poll conducted by the 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Institute of Public Affairs has found that there's a growing 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: number of young Australians who are not prepared to fight 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: for Australia. So if you think, for instance the Ukraine, Ukraine, 5 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: where a lot of people did immediately take up arms 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: against the invading Russian forces, if we were in a 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: similar situation, most people were young people would think let's 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: get out of the country. Let's have a chat with 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: Daniel Wilde, Institute of Public Affairs on this Daniel, good morning. 10 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: Morning, Matthew, nice to be with you. 11 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: Why is that? Why do you think such few and 12 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: the percentage let's have a look, stay and fight twenty 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: seven percent, that's down five since March twenty two. Leave 14 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,279 Speaker 1: the country forty eight percent up eight. Unsure twenty five 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: percent down three. So fewer people. 16 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: Why, yeah, that's right. You've outlined the figures for the 17 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: eighteen to twenty four year old cohort and it's quite 18 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 2: concerning that. The cup of reasons why so few young 19 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: Australians are willing to defend the country. I think the 20 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 2: first is our education system, both at school and at 21 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 2: the university level, which over the years has become increasingly 22 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: hostile to Australian values and our culture and our history, 23 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: increasingly focusing on only the negative aspects of our history. 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 2: A lot of school children get out of school and 25 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 2: they're simply unaware of the great contributions our country has 26 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: made to democracy and freedom and equal rights. So, you know, 27 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: they're told that Australia is basically a bad and illegitimate 28 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 2: and racist country. So they have a negative view of Australia. 29 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 2: I think also if you look at our cultural institutions, 30 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: whether it's the sporting codes or the major civic organizations, 31 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: big business and so on, they also often reinforce this 32 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: negative narrative about our country and our values, our history 33 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: and our way of life. So a lot of young 34 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: Australians sadly grow up and it's not until they get 35 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 2: into their adult that they realize that Australia is actually 36 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 2: a pretty good country and worth defending. 37 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: You know, back in the day. And I think of 38 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: my parents who migrated here after World War Two. In fact, 39 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: it was the late fifties when they arrived, coming to 40 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: a country full of hopes. Young people themselves back then, 41 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: full of dreams for the future and raising a family 42 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: and all of that, and those are the values that 43 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: I and I think a lot of people my age 44 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: have grown up with. But to think that that has 45 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: changed over what is that sixty seventy years, it's just 46 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: so disappointing. 47 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 2: It is disappointing. Although I will say one thing that 48 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: should give us some hope is as soon as you 49 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 2: get out at that young age cohort from twenty five upwards, 50 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 2: the percentage saying that they want to stay in sight 51 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,959 Speaker 2: exceeds those saying they want to leave the country. You know, 52 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 2: should the need arise? So I do think that there is, 53 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 2: you know, partly. Young people can be perhaps idealistic, and 54 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 2: when they become embedded in the real world, they have 55 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 2: a job, they start thinking about a family, owning a home, 56 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 2: they start to realize that Australia is a very good country. 57 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 2: We also see that without a polling we do, for example, 58 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 2: on Australia Day. Again, as soon as you get out 59 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: of that university cohort, the percentage defending Australia and saying no, 60 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 2: look Australia, Australia Day should be celebrated increases. So, you know, 61 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 2: I think it is it is partly that education component 62 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: that is concerning. The other point that I would would 63 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 2: make though, is sadly, I think today a lot of 64 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 2: young people are presented with a very pessimistic view of 65 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 2: the world. I mentioned about the negative view of our culture, 66 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 2: but you know, they're also presented with this climate catastrophism 67 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: and this negativity that the world is going to end, 68 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: and they're inundated with social media and the challenges that 69 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: that presents. So I do wonder whether there is a 70 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: more pessimistic outlook, which I think is terribly sad if 71 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: you're a young person, because that should be a time 72 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: of hope and opportunity, like you mentioned. But you know, 73 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: as I say, in a positive way, as people get older, 74 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: they tend to have a renewed and increasing appreciation of 75 00:03:59,240 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: our nation. 76 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, so that's interesting. So the older which 77 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: points to a problem that's evolved over the last what 78 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: fifteen or so years in schools. 79 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. It has really been the 80 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 2: last yeah, I think ten to fifteen years, as you say. 81 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 2: And one of the issues that we've got in the 82 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 2: education system, as anybody would know, particularly at the school level, 83 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 2: is results are largely going backwards you know, when you 84 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 2: look at the NAP Plan or the PISA International comparison results, 85 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 2: Australia on most measures is going backwards, even though there's 86 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 2: more tax payer money being put into the education system 87 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 2: every year at a state and federal level. And one 88 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: of the reasons for that is we have this insertion 89 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: of political, politically contested ideas taught in an imbalanced way. 90 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 2: We should be teaching students how to think and teaching 91 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: them the facts about history and giving them the skills 92 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 2: to evaluate our history and our culture, rather than having 93 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: a largely politicized curriculum. That is something that has happened 94 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 2: over the last decade. All you have to do is 95 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 2: look at the Voice to Parliament debate, which was only 96 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: one year ago. It was a lot longer ago, but 97 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: you know, you had close to two thirds of South 98 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: Australian's voting no to the Voice to Parliament because it 99 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 2: was divisive and Australia is based on equal rights, but 100 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 2: the ideas that school children were presented with was overwhelmingly 101 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: one sided. 102 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we hear similar stories about threats to 103 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: Western civilization, for instance, through apathy, through misinformation, through being 104 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: too tolerant, and this is the hallmark of Western civilization 105 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: is tolerance to ideas and competing ideas and contesting them 106 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: and debating them. But we seem to have lost the 107 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: ability just to do that. Now we go one step 108 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: further and allow wrong ideas because for whatever reason, what 109 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: we don't want to cause offense to someone who's got 110 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: a crazy idea, for instance. 111 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 2: It seems to me, yeah, I think you're right with that. 112 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 2: We have political correctness which has been increasing over the years, 113 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: where you know, people are scared to speak out. They're 114 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 2: always they always feel like they're stepping on eggshells. I 115 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 2: mentioned the voice debate is a great example of you know, 116 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: many people would say, you know, I don't feel comfortable 117 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 2: speaking up because I might lose my job, or you know, 118 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 2: someone might look at me funny, or I might be 119 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: looked down upon. You know, that's not what our country 120 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: was based on. Our country was really based on giving 121 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 2: the common person a stay in our big issues. I mean, 122 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 2: you hear all the way back to the conscription player 123 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 2: sites in nineteen sixteen and nineteen seventeen, which was extraordinary 124 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 2: for a young democracy only sixteen years old as a 125 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 2: nation to have a big national debate in the middle 126 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 2: of a world war about whether we're going to have 127 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 2: conscription for overseas fightes or not. And that goes right 128 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 2: through to our present day where the ordinary man woman 129 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: on the street have been given a say in the 130 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 2: big issues on our nation's future, and that is foundational 131 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: to our way of life of including all people in 132 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 2: those debates. But sadly, I think a lot of people 133 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: now feel too intimidate to put their opinion out there 134 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: for falling foul of these sort of politically correct doctrines. 135 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: Didn't we have the Howard government try to address this 136 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: imbalance in schools and teach the actual history of Australia 137 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: as it unfolded, the actual history as opposed to any 138 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: tainted by I don't know, misinformation for one of a 139 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: better way of putting that. 140 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, they did, and I think it works well for 141 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: a number of years. But unfortunately one of the key 142 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 2: problems you have with the national curriculum is what is 143 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 2: called the cross curriculum priorities, and that really focuses on 144 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 2: you know, so called environmental sustainability and indigenous matters. Now, 145 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,119 Speaker 2: I'm all in favor of environmental sustainability and teaching about 146 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: our indigenous history and culture, but it's inserted into every 147 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: single subject. So whether you're learning about maths or English 148 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: or science, these ideas are taught across all of those 149 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: and that's why results are coming backwards because people, you know, 150 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 2: young children are not taught the basics of maths and 151 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: of reading and of base scientific ideas. Instead they're confronted 152 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: with political doctrines. Now, I think that people should be taught, 153 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: you know, about climate and about other issues, but they 154 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 2: should be quarantined to their own subjects rather than infecting 155 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 2: every other part of the curriculum. And unfortunately, there's just 156 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: so much indoctrination that goes on and that's one of 157 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: the key challenges. 158 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: That we face and result young people not being proud 159 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: of their country. 160 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: That's right, they're not proud of their country. And you know, 161 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: we know we have a massive national security problem. We're 162 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 2: talking about the issues there. I mean, you know, you 163 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 2: would know and your listeners would know. With the submarines 164 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 2: in Adelaide, and the challenges are making sure that they 165 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 2: go ahead on time. So we need to have you know, 166 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 2: proper rearmament, but we also need cultural rearmament in our country. 167 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: If we're going to be serious about confronting the real 168 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 2: challenges that we face as a nation. We must have 169 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 2: Australians understanding that we are a very good country, that 170 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 2: our democracy is fundamental. So not only us, you know, 171 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 2: there's millions of migrants that have come to our nation 172 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: since world will too and the primary reason for that 173 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 2: is our freedoms, our way of life, our tolerance and 174 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 2: the opportunity to get ahead if you work hard and 175 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 2: if you play by the rules, and that is worth 176 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 2: cherishing and defending. 177 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: Absolutely, Daniel, great speaking with you again. Thank you for your. 178 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: Time, my pleasure. 179 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: Thank you, Daniel. World from the Institute of Public Affairs 180 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: their latest polling showing young Australians are too ashamed to 181 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: fight for their country