1 00:00:04,019 --> 00:00:06,990 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,380 Sean Aylmer: The withdrawal of Ron DeSantis means Donald Trump is a 3 00:00:10,380 --> 00:00:13,710 Sean Aylmer: big step closer to becoming the Republican candidate for this 4 00:00:13,710 --> 00:00:17,520 Sean Aylmer: year's US Presidential election. The only person now standing between 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,730 Sean Aylmer: Trump and the nomination is former United Nations Ambassador, Nikki 6 00:00:20,730 --> 00:00:23,790 Sean Aylmer: Haley. But with Haley well behind in the polls ahead 7 00:00:23,790 --> 00:00:26,639 Sean Aylmer: of the New Hampshire primary this week, it seems it's 8 00:00:26,639 --> 00:00:29,040 Sean Aylmer: pretty much Donald Trump's to lose. My guest today has 9 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,460 Sean Aylmer: a pretty remarkable CV and knows this space very well. 10 00:00:32,460 --> 00:00:36,029 Sean Aylmer: Bruce Wolpe is a Senior Fellow ( non- resident) at the United States 11 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,790 Sean Aylmer: Studies Center. He has worked with the Democrats in Congress 12 00:00:38,790 --> 00:00:42,330 Sean Aylmer: during President Barack Obama's first term, and on the staff 13 00:00:42,420 --> 00:00:45,659 Sean Aylmer: of Prime Minister Julie Gillard. Last year, he published Trump's 14 00:00:45,780 --> 00:00:48,450 Sean Aylmer: Australia, which looks at the potential for Donald Trump to 15 00:00:48,450 --> 00:00:51,539 Sean Aylmer: return to the presidency and what that means for us 16 00:00:51,540 --> 00:00:54,510 Sean Aylmer: here in Australia. Bruce Wolpe, welcome to Fear and Greed. 17 00:00:54,810 --> 00:00:57,030 Bruce Wolpe: Sean, great to be back with you. Thank you so much. 18 00:00:57,900 --> 00:01:02,430 Sean Aylmer: Bruce, upfront, does Nikki Haley have any chance of winning 19 00:01:02,460 --> 00:01:03,240 Sean Aylmer: in New Hampshire? 20 00:01:04,620 --> 00:01:06,780 Bruce Wolpe: She has a chance, but I don't believe she will. 21 00:01:06,780 --> 00:01:09,660 Bruce Wolpe: I actually think she'll fall short with Trump getting over 22 00:01:09,660 --> 00:01:13,350 Bruce Wolpe: 50% of the vote, that's where the polls are. Ron 23 00:01:13,350 --> 00:01:17,670 Bruce Wolpe: DeSantis has pulled out of the race, and even before 24 00:01:17,670 --> 00:01:21,150 Bruce Wolpe: he did, there was polling on his supporters, and more 25 00:01:21,150 --> 00:01:22,620 Bruce Wolpe: than half of them would go to Trump. In other 26 00:01:22,620 --> 00:01:25,259 Bruce Wolpe: words, he was supposed to be Trump without the baggage, 27 00:01:25,469 --> 00:01:27,809 Bruce Wolpe: which meant that he was kind of Trump aligned. And 28 00:01:27,809 --> 00:01:31,350 Bruce Wolpe: so it's natural to think that Trump would gain support 29 00:01:31,350 --> 00:01:35,040 Bruce Wolpe: from the former DeSantis voters. People were thinking after Iowa 30 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,470 Bruce Wolpe: that this would be the opportunity for Nikki Haley to 31 00:01:37,470 --> 00:01:41,490 Bruce Wolpe: really come out, take Trump on, make a real mark, 32 00:01:41,490 --> 00:01:44,700 Bruce Wolpe: maybe even upset him in New Hampshire. But I think 33 00:01:44,910 --> 00:01:46,828 Bruce Wolpe: the polls have shown that Trump has been inching up 34 00:01:46,830 --> 00:01:49,800 Bruce Wolpe: day by day, and to where now he's over 50%. 35 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,550 Bruce Wolpe: If that holds, she's finished. I think she's finished anyway, 36 00:01:53,970 --> 00:01:56,490 Bruce Wolpe: but there's no doubt that Trump is in a completely 37 00:01:56,490 --> 00:01:57,630 Bruce Wolpe: commanding position here. 38 00:01:58,230 --> 00:02:00,599 Sean Aylmer: Just explain, I mean, tell me why Ron DeSantis pulled 39 00:02:00,599 --> 00:02:03,150 Sean Aylmer: out. But it's kind of broader than that, why is 40 00:02:03,150 --> 00:02:06,780 Sean Aylmer: Donald Trump such a dominant player? And certainly in my 41 00:02:06,780 --> 00:02:11,100 Sean Aylmer: memory, I don't know a primary... I mean, can you 42 00:02:11,100 --> 00:02:14,340 Sean Aylmer: tell me someone who's been as dominant in the race 43 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,439 Sean Aylmer: to challenge a president as Trump has? 44 00:02:16,710 --> 00:02:19,799 Bruce Wolpe: Or just dominant as a candidate? Ronald Reagan was a 45 00:02:19,799 --> 00:02:24,480 Bruce Wolpe: very powerful force inside the Republican party. Bill Clinton came 46 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,000 Bruce Wolpe: to be one in the Democratic Party, won two terms 47 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,050 Bruce Wolpe: as president. Remember the crowds with Barack Obama when he 48 00:02:31,050 --> 00:02:33,419 Bruce Wolpe: was campaigning, there were hundreds of thousands, I remember in 49 00:02:33,419 --> 00:02:36,389 Bruce Wolpe: Portland, Oregon to hear him. He went to Berlin and 50 00:02:36,389 --> 00:02:39,780 Bruce Wolpe: addressed the city in Berlin. And so there have been 51 00:02:39,780 --> 00:02:43,500 Bruce Wolpe: charismatic candidates who have attracted things, but I haven't seen 52 00:02:43,500 --> 00:02:47,460 Bruce Wolpe: anything... Well, sort of like Reagan, people say Reaganism and 53 00:02:47,460 --> 00:02:52,410 Bruce Wolpe: now Trumpism has emerged. But Trump has forged... It's beyond transactional. 54 00:02:52,860 --> 00:02:55,410 Bruce Wolpe: Most elections you go into, I like your policies. I'm 55 00:02:55,410 --> 00:02:57,180 Bruce Wolpe: going to vote for you, you'll do something for me. 56 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,459 Bruce Wolpe: This is a movement. Now, so a lot of people 57 00:02:59,459 --> 00:03:02,730 Bruce Wolpe: say, this is a cult, and they see elements of 58 00:03:02,730 --> 00:03:06,240 Bruce Wolpe: that. If you look at video of Trump's rallies, just 59 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,179 Bruce Wolpe: go to C- SPAN and look at the Manchester New 60 00:03:09,179 --> 00:03:12,239 Bruce Wolpe: Hampshire rally from Saturday night. Look at the faces of 61 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,410 Bruce Wolpe: the crowd. They are so happy to be there. It's 62 00:03:16,410 --> 00:03:18,419 Bruce Wolpe: sort of like a Taylor Swift concert. They know what's 63 00:03:18,450 --> 00:03:20,790 Bruce Wolpe: coming. They know all the lyrics and they love it. 64 00:03:21,150 --> 00:03:24,690 Bruce Wolpe: And so they're as engaged with him as Swifties are with her, and he 65 00:03:24,690 --> 00:03:27,059 Bruce Wolpe: delivers. He talks for an hour and 45 minutes like 66 00:03:27,059 --> 00:03:32,219 Bruce Wolpe: Fidel Castro, it's really great. They're getting what he wants 67 00:03:32,219 --> 00:03:35,159 Bruce Wolpe: and what he is, it's not new Coke or Diet 68 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,610 Bruce Wolpe: Coke. They want the real thing and they're getting it 69 00:03:38,610 --> 00:03:42,300 Bruce Wolpe: with him. So most Republicans believe that Joe Biden is 70 00:03:42,300 --> 00:03:46,139 Bruce Wolpe: an illegitimate president. Most Republicans believe the 2020 election was 71 00:03:46,139 --> 00:03:50,009 Bruce Wolpe: stolen, and Trump is the embodiment of that. And they also 72 00:03:50,009 --> 00:03:53,100 Bruce Wolpe: believe what he says, " When they come after me, they're 73 00:03:53,100 --> 00:03:55,800 Bruce Wolpe: coming after you. You know what I do for you 74 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,170 Bruce Wolpe: and I protect you, and I support policies that will 75 00:03:58,170 --> 00:04:00,720 Bruce Wolpe: benefit you, and they want to take me out because 76 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,940 Bruce Wolpe: they don't want to do anything for you. So you 77 00:04:02,940 --> 00:04:04,889 Bruce Wolpe: stick with me and I stick with you." And it's 78 00:04:04,889 --> 00:04:08,310 Bruce Wolpe: a grand bargain and it's holding, and it is extremely powerful. 79 00:04:08,730 --> 00:04:10,709 Sean Aylmer: What I don't understand about this, I have a son 80 00:04:10,709 --> 00:04:13,260 Sean Aylmer: who is going to college and to school in the 81 00:04:13,260 --> 00:04:16,740 Sean Aylmer: Midwest, so it's the southern part of Illinois, and all 82 00:04:16,740 --> 00:04:19,560 Sean Aylmer: his friends from college, and he's been to their family's 83 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,878 Sean Aylmer: places and spent Thanksgiving with them. They're all Trump lovers. 84 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,669 Sean Aylmer: These are smart people who have done very well for 85 00:04:26,670 --> 00:04:30,209 Sean Aylmer: themselves. It's not just... I mean, they're kind of anti- 86 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,390 Sean Aylmer: Biden, they don't like his age, but they are so pro- 87 00:04:33,390 --> 00:04:37,440 Sean Aylmer: Trump. What is it that Donald Trump has that the 88 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,109 Sean Aylmer: rest of the world doesn't quite understand? Doesn't quite get 89 00:04:40,559 --> 00:04:43,830 Sean Aylmer: that really intelligent people in St. Louis and those sorts 90 00:04:43,830 --> 00:04:47,670 Sean Aylmer: of cities in the Midwest of the US just love him for? 91 00:04:48,390 --> 00:04:52,770 Bruce Wolpe: Actually according to polls, most college educated Americans do not 92 00:04:52,770 --> 00:04:56,339 Bruce Wolpe: like Trump, but it's like 60/ 30. So I guess your 93 00:04:56,339 --> 00:04:58,859 Bruce Wolpe: son is coming across those who do like. What they 94 00:04:58,860 --> 00:05:01,769 Bruce Wolpe: like is... I mean, what phase is the world moving 95 00:05:01,770 --> 00:05:05,369 Bruce Wolpe: into? Trump represents America first. He wants to bring the 96 00:05:05,369 --> 00:05:10,110 Bruce Wolpe: troops home, stop involvement overseas, protect the southern border, have 97 00:05:10,410 --> 00:05:14,010 Bruce Wolpe: trade agreements that don't backfire on working Americans. And so 98 00:05:14,010 --> 00:05:17,578 Bruce Wolpe: he's a nationalist. And there are cycles in history, and 99 00:05:17,580 --> 00:05:22,001 Bruce Wolpe: this is a very populist anti- immigrant, pro- America, (inaudible) 100 00:05:22,001 --> 00:05:26,219 Bruce Wolpe: era, and Trump embodies that. They also think for 101 00:05:26,220 --> 00:05:29,940 Bruce Wolpe: a guy who lied 30,000 times during his presidency, according 102 00:05:29,940 --> 00:05:32,849 Bruce Wolpe: to the Washington Post fact- checker, he is the most 103 00:05:32,849 --> 00:05:36,659 Bruce Wolpe: relentlessly honest politician that we've seen in generations. In other 104 00:05:36,660 --> 00:05:38,938 Bruce Wolpe: words, he says, " I'm going to build the wall and 105 00:05:38,940 --> 00:05:41,310 Bruce Wolpe: stop the immigrants. I'm going to get us out of 106 00:05:41,490 --> 00:05:45,479 Bruce Wolpe: foreign agreements, architecture like NATO. I'm going to take on 107 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,460 Bruce Wolpe: China. I'm going to have trade wars. We're going to 108 00:05:47,460 --> 00:05:50,700 Bruce Wolpe: protect the work." He delivers on what he says. And 109 00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:54,060 Bruce Wolpe: people really like that. So it's a combination of things. 110 00:05:54,420 --> 00:05:56,849 Bruce Wolpe: The question is though, is this where a majority of 111 00:05:56,849 --> 00:06:00,238 Bruce Wolpe: the country is? Now, Trump lost the popular vote in 112 00:06:00,270 --> 00:06:03,659 Bruce Wolpe: 2016 to Hillary Clinton. Clearly he lost the popular vote 113 00:06:03,660 --> 00:06:06,270 Bruce Wolpe: to Joe Biden. So the whole country hasn't gone ape 114 00:06:06,270 --> 00:06:09,178 Bruce Wolpe: for Trump, but it has worked out certainly in 2016 115 00:06:09,178 --> 00:06:12,059 Bruce Wolpe: with the electoral college. So he's there. Will he ever 116 00:06:12,059 --> 00:06:15,659 Bruce Wolpe: crack 50% approval? I don't think so. He's a divider, 117 00:06:15,660 --> 00:06:19,080 Bruce Wolpe: not a uniter. But nevertheless, he has the power of 118 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,860 Bruce Wolpe: all of his bases with him to the end, and 119 00:06:22,860 --> 00:06:26,578 Bruce Wolpe: they show up and the Biden camp is worried that 120 00:06:26,580 --> 00:06:28,109 Bruce Wolpe: his people will not show up. 121 00:06:28,500 --> 00:06:30,270 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Bruce, we'll be back in a minute. 122 00:06:36,330 --> 00:06:39,089 Sean Aylmer: I am speaking to Bruce Wolpe, Senior Fellow ( non- resident) 123 00:06:39,089 --> 00:06:44,279 Sean Aylmer: at the United States Studies Center. What about these legal 124 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,460 Sean Aylmer: problems for Trump? Two states have actually barred him from 125 00:06:47,460 --> 00:06:51,239 Sean Aylmer: their primary ballots, Colorado and Maine. That's over the insurrection 126 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,540 Sean Aylmer: clause in the constitution. Trump, of course, has challenged those 127 00:06:54,540 --> 00:06:58,440 Sean Aylmer: decisions. How does all this play out? Are these legalese, 128 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,390 Sean Aylmer: I suppose, that Donald Trump is going to have to 129 00:07:00,390 --> 00:07:02,729 Sean Aylmer: go through for the next nine months, will it stop him? 130 00:07:03,690 --> 00:07:05,790 Bruce Wolpe: No, it won't stop him. In fact, it's helping him. 131 00:07:05,790 --> 00:07:09,929 Bruce Wolpe: On the Colorado main issues, Colorado ruling that Trump was 132 00:07:09,929 --> 00:07:13,050 Bruce Wolpe: engaged in an insurrection under the 14th Amendment and therefore 133 00:07:13,050 --> 00:07:15,600 Bruce Wolpe: cannot appear on the ballot, the Supreme Court will rule 134 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,510 Bruce Wolpe: on that. But if the Supreme Court upholds Colorado, they 135 00:07:18,510 --> 00:07:20,940 Bruce Wolpe: won't say, " Well, every state has to follow what Colorado 136 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:23,879 Bruce Wolpe: is doing." In America, it's 50 state elections. The states 137 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,190 Bruce Wolpe: are very powerful as to what's on their ballots, and 138 00:07:26,190 --> 00:07:30,090 Bruce Wolpe: so there won't be uniform application. But the other class 139 00:07:30,090 --> 00:07:32,640 Bruce Wolpe: of legalisms is, well, did you try and overturn the 140 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,920 Bruce Wolpe: election in the United States? And was that a criminal 141 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,010 Bruce Wolpe: activity? Did you take classified documents with you? And was 142 00:07:38,010 --> 00:07:41,580 Bruce Wolpe: that a political activity? And what Trump has done is 143 00:07:41,580 --> 00:07:45,150 Bruce Wolpe: politicized that and said, " They're coming after me because they're 144 00:07:45,150 --> 00:07:48,419 Bruce Wolpe: coming after you. They take me out, that means you'll 145 00:07:48,420 --> 00:07:52,590 Bruce Wolpe: be vulnerable." And his base, they embrace that and they 146 00:07:52,590 --> 00:07:55,590 Bruce Wolpe: get it. So every time that something legal happens against 147 00:07:55,590 --> 00:07:58,170 Bruce Wolpe: Trump, it turns into a plus as far as solidifying 148 00:07:58,170 --> 00:08:02,040 Bruce Wolpe: his base. And he says, " When I'm indicted, it's the 149 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,369 Bruce Wolpe: greatest case of interference in an American election in American 150 00:08:05,369 --> 00:08:08,010 Bruce Wolpe: history," and his base buys it. So that is the 151 00:08:08,010 --> 00:08:11,700 Bruce Wolpe: power of something that would absolutely destroy any other mortal 152 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:13,530 Bruce Wolpe: on earth if they were running for office. 153 00:08:14,130 --> 00:08:16,949 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so do you think it'll be Trump v Biden, 154 00:08:17,340 --> 00:08:20,399 Sean Aylmer: and if so, who wins, Bruce Wolpe? 155 00:08:20,639 --> 00:08:22,859 Bruce Wolpe: Barring an act of God, Trump will be on the 156 00:08:22,859 --> 00:08:27,360 Bruce Wolpe: nominee and alive on November 5th. All things being equal, 157 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,870 Bruce Wolpe: Biden should win because A, Trump has not secured a 158 00:08:30,870 --> 00:08:35,159 Bruce Wolpe: majority support of the American people. B, the economy is improving. 159 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,660 Bruce Wolpe: The economic outlook is improving. Confidence is improving. Australians and 160 00:08:39,660 --> 00:08:42,270 Bruce Wolpe: Americans sort of in the same place. Very high interest 161 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,060 Bruce Wolpe: rates, very tough cost of living pressures. It really hurts. 162 00:08:45,330 --> 00:08:48,360 Bruce Wolpe: You're in government, you own it. And so it hurts 163 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,670 Bruce Wolpe: politically, but people can see that interest rates will start 164 00:08:50,670 --> 00:08:54,389 Bruce Wolpe: coming down in the United States. But age is really 165 00:08:54,389 --> 00:08:58,799 Bruce Wolpe: dogging Biden and young people in particular have no enthusiasm 166 00:08:58,799 --> 00:09:01,470 Bruce Wolpe: for voting for him. And the war in Gaza is 167 00:09:01,470 --> 00:09:05,280 Bruce Wolpe: also stirring up great passions in the Democratic Party. And Arab- 168 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,800 Bruce Wolpe: American voters are very important in certain key states like 169 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,550 Bruce Wolpe: Michigan, and they're furious and understandably so about what's happening 170 00:09:11,550 --> 00:09:16,379 Bruce Wolpe: in Gaza. And so that diminishes Biden's support. On the 171 00:09:16,379 --> 00:09:19,260 Bruce Wolpe: other hand, if you look at Iowa and New Hampshire, 172 00:09:19,590 --> 00:09:22,800 Bruce Wolpe: okay, Trump got over 50% of the vote, but that 173 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,040 Bruce Wolpe: means 40% of Republicans are not voting for him. And 174 00:09:26,250 --> 00:09:28,350 Bruce Wolpe: many of them do want to turn the page and 175 00:09:28,650 --> 00:09:31,230 Bruce Wolpe: wish that there was someone better. So when it really 176 00:09:31,230 --> 00:09:33,960 Bruce Wolpe: comes down to it, can Biden peel away some Republicans 177 00:09:34,230 --> 00:09:37,620 Bruce Wolpe: that are looking for more responsible government? If he can 178 00:09:37,620 --> 00:09:40,530 Bruce Wolpe: do that, that would be a significant block of votes. 179 00:09:40,890 --> 00:09:45,570 Bruce Wolpe: So again, I think Biden should win, but because of 180 00:09:45,570 --> 00:09:50,489 Bruce Wolpe: the lack of enthusiasm of voters behind him, it's really... 181 00:09:51,270 --> 00:09:51,750 Bruce Wolpe: I don't know. 182 00:09:52,529 --> 00:09:54,780 Sean Aylmer: You wrote the book Trump's Australia last year, and it's 183 00:09:54,780 --> 00:09:58,199 Sean Aylmer: available at the moment. What would a Trump win mean 184 00:09:58,200 --> 00:09:58,890 Sean Aylmer: for Australia? 185 00:09:59,490 --> 00:10:01,920 Bruce Wolpe: A Trump win would mean for Australia, first on foreign 186 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,770 Bruce Wolpe: policy, Trump is going to go after the architecture established 187 00:10:04,770 --> 00:10:08,070 Bruce Wolpe: after World War II, around the world which Australia has 188 00:10:08,070 --> 00:10:11,400 Bruce Wolpe: invested in for the United Nations to NATO, to the 189 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,550 Bruce Wolpe: World Trade Organization, the World Health Organization, and so forth. 190 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,850 Bruce Wolpe: Secondly, Trump has an agenda with China, which is different 191 00:10:17,850 --> 00:10:21,389 Bruce Wolpe: than the Biden Albanese agenda with China, and we'll see 192 00:10:21,389 --> 00:10:25,469 Bruce Wolpe: how that goes. Third, we have AUKUS. Well, does Trump 193 00:10:25,469 --> 00:10:28,559 Bruce Wolpe: want to continue with AUKUS? Is he worried that too 194 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,280 Bruce Wolpe: much nuclear technology is going to be exported to Australia? 195 00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:34,949 Bruce Wolpe: Are those contracts good for the United States? I mean, 196 00:10:34,950 --> 00:10:37,199 Bruce Wolpe: where are the jobs going? Where's the money going? And like 197 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,389 Bruce Wolpe: any good businessman, and we know Donald Trump is a very 198 00:10:39,389 --> 00:10:43,380 Bruce Wolpe: good businessman. He'll look at the contracts and see whether 199 00:10:43,380 --> 00:10:47,878 Bruce Wolpe: they're working for Australia. So Australia may find itself more... 200 00:10:48,330 --> 00:10:51,120 Bruce Wolpe: Not isolated from the United States, but a bigger gap 201 00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:53,670 Bruce Wolpe: in the trajectory of the two countries in the region. 202 00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:55,380 Bruce Wolpe: So it's something we got to look for. And we 203 00:10:55,380 --> 00:10:58,320 Bruce Wolpe: also got to look at, Trump makes noise in America 204 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,629 Bruce Wolpe: and the echo chambers here. When we wake up in 205 00:11:00,630 --> 00:11:03,389 Bruce Wolpe: the morning, we hear US news, big massacre, big gun 206 00:11:03,389 --> 00:11:06,208 Bruce Wolpe: massacre. Well, is that going to happen here? Abortion rights 207 00:11:06,208 --> 00:11:08,760 Bruce Wolpe: taken away. Well, is that going to happen here? And 208 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,790 Bruce Wolpe: so it will leach into the political culture. Now, I 209 00:11:11,790 --> 00:11:15,360 Bruce Wolpe: think Australia has an immensely stronger political culture as far 210 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,000 Bruce Wolpe: as democracy is concerned, than the United States, starting with 211 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,320 Bruce Wolpe: compulsory voting. But there will be pressures on Australia democracy 212 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,208 Bruce Wolpe: because of the rhetoric that comes out of the Trump 213 00:11:24,208 --> 00:11:24,719 Bruce Wolpe: White House. 214 00:11:24,809 --> 00:11:26,940 Sean Aylmer: Bruce, it's going to be a fascinating year, and if 215 00:11:26,940 --> 00:11:28,590 Sean Aylmer: you don't mind, we'll keep in touch. Thank you very 216 00:11:28,590 --> 00:11:30,059 Sean Aylmer: much for talking to Fear and Greed. 217 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,429 Bruce Wolpe: No shortage of material, Sean. We'll see you. 218 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,488 Sean Aylmer: That's for sure. That was Bruce Wolpe, Senior Fellow ( non- 219 00:11:35,490 --> 00:11:38,939 Sean Aylmer: resident) at the United States Studies Center. This is the 220 00:11:38,940 --> 00:11:41,399 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Greed Business interview. Join us every morning for 221 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,490 Sean Aylmer: the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's best business 222 00:11:44,490 --> 00:11:46,890 Sean Aylmer: podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.