Speaker 1: I think about the when they got away. That kept
Speaker 1: me up for a while. That one did it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd think about it right up until, yeah, easily ten
Speaker 1: years after. It was only when I saw my family.
Speaker 1: My family came into the rooms and then I just
Speaker 1: I just started crying and I felt that I'd let
Speaker 1: them down.
Speaker 2: I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn McFarlane.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens
Speaker 3: when the ax falls in the AFL world. We'll take
Speaker 3: you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names
Speaker 3: in football and find out how they found out their
Speaker 3: time was up and who pulled the trigger. Sacked AFL
Speaker 3: is made possible with the support of subscribers to The
Speaker 3: Herald Sun. To find out more, go to Herald Sun
Speaker 3: dot com dot are you or download the Herald Sun
Speaker 3: app at your app store today.
Speaker 2: The Unlikely Footy Star with Melmichael. You'd think the odds
Speaker 2: of a kid born in png and raised in Brisbane
Speaker 2: becoming a three club three premiership winning star would almost
Speaker 2: be zero. Mel Michael was a skinny kid with no
Speaker 2: promises and even less to live on when he arrived
Speaker 2: at Collingwood as an eighteen year old. But he ended
Speaker 2: his footy career a fearsome fallback and a member of
Speaker 2: the Brisbane Lions premiership dynasty. And it was a journey
Speaker 2: that took a great deal of self belief to even
Speaker 2: get started in the first place.
Speaker 3: You had sacked, you retired a couple of times, you
Speaker 3: were traded for JEREBILLOI. But you know, it's a historic
Speaker 3: and a pretty extraordinary football career.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I always knew you when to leave. I never
Speaker 1: outstayed my welcome and I had an uncanny knack of
Speaker 1: when I knew that the time was right. I said,
Speaker 1: that'll do.
Speaker 2: You must have loved your footy career. Tell us there's
Speaker 2: obviously a couple of great moments. What's the one thing
Speaker 2: that you think about is that the premiership medals?
Speaker 1: I'd imagine, Yeah, the premiership medal sit high on the
Speaker 1: list of accomplishments, but I think just the road travel
Speaker 1: to get there was probably probably something that I look
Speaker 1: back on and I think it's it was pretty good accomplishment.
Speaker 1: Say that about myself. But I was just talking recently
Speaker 1: about when I came to Collingwood when I was eighteen.
Speaker 1: I literally just got dropped off at the airport. Rick
Speaker 1: barr and picked me up, took me to the club
Speaker 1: and said this is where you have to be tomorrow
Speaker 1: at at am. Then drop it at my grandmother's and
Speaker 1: said good luck.
Speaker 2: And there was no promises either, was there. There were
Speaker 2: no promises of what you were going to get and
Speaker 2: you were living at your grandmother's for a period of time.
Speaker 1: Then yeah, that's it. So it was basically the old
Speaker 1: chuck you in the pool and you either swim or
Speaker 1: you and I was lucky that I got lucky actually,
Speaker 1: and a few breaks went my way and I was
Speaker 1: able to survive, but a lot.
Speaker 2: Don't you talk about your journey anyway, Ralph, and I
Speaker 2: was speaking about it recently. The kid that was born
Speaker 2: in PNG your dad went up there, you know, as
Speaker 2: a young man after getting a degree and moving to
Speaker 2: Brisbane in nineteen eighty as a three year old, who
Speaker 2: then goes on to play AFL football and at the
Speaker 2: highest level and has some amazing honors to go with it.
Speaker 1: And that's what a great story. And I think that's
Speaker 1: why I feel that the accomplishment of that of the
Speaker 1: journey is it sits up there with the premierships because
Speaker 1: it's just not a traditional road that one takes to
Speaker 1: play AFL and to make it even just to put
Speaker 1: a bit of contact context into it. At my junior club,
Speaker 1: ken Moore Juniors, like no I would have ever heard
Speaker 1: of this football club. I played juniors there with Max
Speaker 1: Hudgton and he went on to Plats and killed it.
Speaker 1: So you had these two kids out of ken Moore
Speaker 1: Juniors that we didn't even have a senior team like
Speaker 1: it ended at under sixteens. That's how that's how small
Speaker 1: it is. So in that time, normally Brisbane kids just
Speaker 1: never even got drafted and then suddenly had two kids
Speaker 1: from Brisbane out of the same junior football club. It was.
Speaker 1: It was quite bizarre.
Speaker 2: Did you play coming up up against a kid called
Speaker 2: Jason akermanis growing up in Brisbane as well at a
Speaker 2: Whisper that you may have either played with him or
Speaker 2: played against him as a kid.
Speaker 1: Well, we played against each We played club football against
Speaker 1: each other, Akar and I at the same age actually,
Speaker 1: so we played a lot of junior football against each other.
Speaker 1: But all the Repers native teams we played with each other.
Speaker 3: So you're a sixteen year old forward, you get to
Speaker 3: morning side, I drop for the Grand Final. What do
Speaker 3: you like at that age thinking to yourself, stars in
Speaker 3: my eyes, I'm going to play for Brisbane. Brisbane Bears
Speaker 3: at that stage, Yeah, where are you along your career?
Speaker 4: Apath?
Speaker 1: I would have killed to play for Brisbane at that stage.
Speaker 1: It was I just looked up they at the time,
Speaker 1: Brisbane had brought in Alistair Lynch, Andrew bues Damian Burke,
Speaker 1: all these absolute legends of the game. Yeah, and it
Speaker 1: was really it was really unlike Brisbane to secure these guys.
Speaker 1: Usually they got players that were either rooted or they
Speaker 1: were just stuffed and they were literally it was like
Speaker 1: a superannuation payout. But these guys are good footballers. And
Speaker 1: then Nathan Buckley came in the draft and you know
Speaker 1: things were really looking There was good prospects of Brisbane,
Speaker 1: so I was couldn't wait to get there.
Speaker 4: But it felt like you had the talent at that stage.
Speaker 1: Of course, yeah that's it, but I was. I did
Speaker 1: a couple of summer trainings with them and I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, with a bit of luck, I'd be able
Speaker 1: to get one of the what they called at the
Speaker 1: time the local the local spots. But that didn't turn out.
Speaker 2: His own selection. I think that that's scenario. What went
Speaker 2: wrong do you think, did you? Was it just the
Speaker 2: wrong time, the wrong place, or what do you think
Speaker 2: went wrong that they didn't see what we all got
Speaker 2: to see the years later.
Speaker 1: I think there was an influx of very good players
Speaker 1: that all came through. So the guys they did take
Speaker 1: was Jason Akermanus Clark Keating. I think Steve Lawrence was
Speaker 1: part of that program as well, so they took Brett Voss,
Speaker 1: brother of Michael. But the other guys that were training
Speaker 1: in that little group was myself, Plint bisl Hamish Simpson
Speaker 1: and Max Hutchton. But we all missed out, so we
Speaker 1: all had to go elsewhere and it was I guess
Speaker 1: the story doesn't really get told, but Brisbane can only
Speaker 1: take so many and they felt that what the ones
Speaker 1: they took was once I needed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And from that perspective, like you get a call
Speaker 2: from Collingwood, is it Ricky Barron gives you a call?
Speaker 2: You'd obviously shown you where's in representative footy and the like,
Speaker 2: But so how did Collingwood get in contact with you?
Speaker 2: And obviously you've got a Collingwood connection with your great
Speaker 2: grandfather playing a game at Collywood all those years ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he played one game, but I think he loved
Speaker 1: the Beers team much fair enough to my.
Speaker 2: Dad, except that one game, I'd be happy you just
Speaker 2: could rest on your laurels after one game, I reckon.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually, Dad was telling me a story about him,
Speaker 1: Robert Michael Senia, and he had a nickname but I
Speaker 1: can't think of it right now, but it's something along
Speaker 1: the lines. He was called the leather Skin something and
Speaker 1: I think it's because he just drank too much. But
Speaker 1: I don't think footy and drinking went well for him.
Speaker 1: But what was the original question?
Speaker 2: I know I was just going to say with that, like,
Speaker 2: you know, how did Collingwood come back to you? And
Speaker 2: sort of was it Ricky Barram who gives you a call,
Speaker 2: who was doing a bit of recruiting with Piees back then,
Speaker 2: and how did the call come through?
Speaker 1: Well, I was playing at Morningside and what happened was
Speaker 1: when we go out to do the warm up, there'd
Speaker 1: be this cameraman setting up on top of the on
Speaker 1: top of the clubhouse or the grandstand, which was quite
Speaker 1: unusual for us up there at that time, and I
Speaker 1: didn't think anything of it. And then a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks later there was another cameraman, another cameraman, another camera,
Speaker 1: and then eventually the coach, Marty King, said to me,
Speaker 1: he goes, he goes. Those cameraman up there are feeling
Speaker 1: you playing, and they're from actually a few different clubs.
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure whether that helped me or didn't
Speaker 1: help me, but I understood that I was on the
Speaker 1: radar of some AFL clubs and it was in my
Speaker 1: best interest to perform.
Speaker 3: So you get to Collingwood, you're on what's called a
Speaker 3: supplementary list. Is that right before the rookie list? At
Speaker 3: that stage you battle through I think you're sixty eight kilograms.
Speaker 3: You talk to times about, you know, going to the
Speaker 3: airport for games and you couldn't afford to eat, like
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know, you're probably on absolute mega
Speaker 3: rations at that stage in terms of your salary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I turned up sixty eight kilos ringing wet I was.
Speaker 1: I was really worry because I was a swimmer growing
Speaker 1: up and there wasn't an answer. Fat on me if
Speaker 1: you look at me now double that late. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it turned up. I was pretty fit, No fat on me,
Speaker 1: but I had to play football in that time, you
Speaker 1: needed to have some weight behind you, you just the
Speaker 1: otherwise you just wouldn't survive. So football on a supplementary
Speaker 1: list wage back in ninety six, just to give you
Speaker 1: some numbers, was I think two hundred and fifty eight
Speaker 1: dollars a game. Wow, and my rent was one hundred.
Speaker 2: And forty that's tough, my mortgage.
Speaker 1: Like, I'm no accountant, but.
Speaker 3: To get anything apart from that, like, it wasn't a stipend.
Speaker 3: It was just you got paid to play, that's it.
Speaker 2: And you didn't have your license or didn't have a
Speaker 2: car at the time, was that right, And so you
Speaker 2: had to get the train like sometimes you know, four
Speaker 2: or five in the morning to try and get to
Speaker 2: where you needed to get to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had a license with no car, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it was still in the day's pre professional era.
Speaker 1: So we trained and did wits in the morning and
Speaker 1: that was at six am, and then you'd go to
Speaker 1: work or study or whether and then we'd train in
Speaker 1: the evening. So for me, coming from Ashburton meant a
Speaker 1: four am wake up to catch the five o'clock train
Speaker 1: and I just roll in the door at Collingwood at
Speaker 1: like five to six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was it like rolling to the door at
Speaker 2: Collingwood's the most famous footy club going around in that sense,
Speaker 2: and they were probably struggling a little bit at that time.
Speaker 2: But you know, there's some pretty famous names through there
Speaker 2: and pretty dilapidated old facilities there. But it must have
Speaker 2: been amazing walking into Big Park.
Speaker 1: I loved every second of that. I like the fact
Speaker 1: that it was old and it had all the history.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of clubs are moving away from
Speaker 1: their spiritual homes, which I don't agree with, to be honest,
Speaker 1: I think clubs, especially young players coming in, need to
Speaker 1: experience that experience, the history of the place. So I
Speaker 1: loved it from day one. Because I was from Interstate.
Speaker 1: I hung out with all the Interstate guys and we
Speaker 1: formed a little family and that was really cool as well.
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't I wouldn't change anything from my first
Speaker 1: and second year at Collingwood.
Speaker 3: You had some tough times, you know, Nathan Buckley was there,
Speaker 3: Danny Frowley was there as well, and assistant coaching capacity.
Speaker 3: I think it's sort of it's written that, you know,
Speaker 3: they basically saved you at times when you wanted to
Speaker 3: go home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely Danny because he was my reserves coach. Plus
Speaker 1: he was also a fullback and he kind of groomed
Speaker 1: me too and taught me and train me to, you know,
Speaker 1: to play fullback. So and he also lived in Brighton
Speaker 1: and I was. I lived in East and Kilda, so
Speaker 1: he used to drop me home all the time. So
Speaker 1: when I heard of his passing, it was quite sad.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Nathan came and saw me a couple of times,
Speaker 1: and it was never about I didn't want to play.
Speaker 1: It was just that the stress of not having the
Speaker 1: resources of the finances to be here was too much
Speaker 1: at that age.
Speaker 4: But they convinced you clearly.
Speaker 3: You know those times when you thought about it and
Speaker 3: you just realized that I suppose they reassured you that
Speaker 3: you know that you're still on track.
Speaker 1: The AFL reserves was an actual competition back then and
Speaker 1: that's why I started playing in So we had to
Speaker 1: place the Sydney reserve grade team in Sydney as the
Speaker 1: curtain raiser to the main game, and Danny Frawley said,
Speaker 1: I want everyone to meet at Don Camillo's at North
Speaker 1: Melbourne and then we'll go out to the airport to
Speaker 1: catch the to catch the plane to Sydney. I came
Speaker 1: up with some excuse of why I couldn't have go
Speaker 1: to Don Camillo's and I said, I'll just meet you
Speaker 1: at the airport. And the reason was I just couldn't
Speaker 1: afford it. I couldn't afford ten bucks. That's that's how
Speaker 1: That's how tight it was. That's how tight it was.
Speaker 4: It's incredible when you think.
Speaker 2: About what the industry is like now and how tight
Speaker 2: it was for you, and you know how close it
Speaker 2: was to going. I think it was was that Trent
Speaker 2: Hotton got into a little bit of trouble there at
Speaker 2: one stage and may have been pushed off the list,
Speaker 2: and you got put onto the list. Tell us about that,
Speaker 2: and was a Gubby Allen who was the man who
Speaker 2: told you, you know, you're on the list here and
Speaker 2: you're going to play.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the supplementary list. First, the second year at
Speaker 1: Collingold Day they introduced the rookie list and it was
Speaker 1: quite a to be honest, I don't know what that
Speaker 1: actually meant, but in today's terms, it means that it's
Speaker 1: a supplementary list, but you can play. Whereas a supplementary
Speaker 1: list back in ninety six meant you couldn't play at all,
Speaker 1: So I thought I was They con missed me to
Speaker 1: stay and I did that, and then yeah, Trent got
Speaker 1: into a bit of trouble. They had a few other
Speaker 1: injury problems. They were playing players at fullback that really
Speaker 1: weren't fullbacks. I think they put gave Krusiska back there.
Speaker 1: They even played Nathan Buckley back there for a bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Anthony Rocker went back there. And then I think it
Speaker 1: was Danny Frawley that just said, hey, we've got a
Speaker 1: fullback that's playing in the reserves. That's why we have
Speaker 1: the reserves, isn't it. So why and he's actually not
Speaker 1: in bad form? Why don't we play him? So they
Speaker 1: took the punt and I got elevated that week and
Speaker 1: I played. But there is a story behind that one.
Speaker 1: I was actually I think that was about round five
Speaker 1: or six. I was actually going into Sure's offs to
Speaker 1: tell him that I was actually going to leave wow
Speaker 1: and head badly. Yeah. So I saw him say I'd
Speaker 1: reckon on Monday, and I said, sure, can I see you?
Speaker 1: And he goes, yeah, yeah, he goes, come and see
Speaker 1: me Wednesday afternoon. So I said yeah, no worries. So
Speaker 1: I came, I went in on the Wednesday and I
Speaker 1: went into the office and he goes, look, before you
Speaker 1: say something, I just wanted to say that you're going
Speaker 1: to be playing this weekend. Yeah, it was crazy.
Speaker 4: Why did you want to talk to me about nothing?
Speaker 3: That's all right? So yeah, it's and why the same reasons?
Speaker 3: Why were you at that stage thinking about going home?
Speaker 1: It was just purely the financial reasons. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: I think the rookie list was playing maybe five thousand
Speaker 1: back then, which is one hundred bucks a week.
Speaker 3: That's how we're talking about Dean Cox and Stephen Milne
Speaker 3: and Aaron Sandlands. Is the great rookie elevations, but you
Speaker 3: were the first rookie elevation? Is that cor I believe Yeah, yeah, unbelieva.
Speaker 2: And you play against North Melbourne like some stars at
Speaker 2: North Melbourne at the time. They are a fantastic side
Speaker 2: at the time. And you know, I think it was
Speaker 2: it was it a Friday night game. So the Wednesday
Speaker 2: you find out you're playing on the Friday, not you're playing?
Speaker 4: Is that right?
Speaker 1: That's it? That's how quickly that course asking the question.
Speaker 1: But he's lost the free kick.
Speaker 2: There's young mel and Michael wearing forty eight.
Speaker 5: What a big night it is for him, As Andrew
Speaker 5: Shubel said, great to see him getting a.
Speaker 1: Chant kicks up And that's how quickly it DAEs happen.
Speaker 2: How do you get your head around that you're playing
Speaker 2: against superstars and in front of I think it's seventy
Speaker 2: five thousand people there.
Speaker 1: That your memory is phenomenal.
Speaker 4: I was probably there now, Yesperado.
Speaker 1: Now it was that. You have to remember that was
Speaker 1: the reigning premier from from ninety six and they had
Speaker 1: an all star team and an all star forward line. Say,
Speaker 1: it was quite daunting, to be honest with you, Who.
Speaker 2: Did you play on? Do you remember that? Trying to
Speaker 2: think you would have?
Speaker 1: I played on? I played on a couple of players,
Speaker 1: but predominantly Anthony Mellington, Yes, ex Fitzroy then Royd boy,
Speaker 1: wasn't it. Yeah, So he's a pretty handy player. So
Speaker 1: that was my first taste of it.
Speaker 3: So ninety seven, thirteen games, ninety eight, sixteen games, ninety nine,
Speaker 3: seveneen games, couple.
Speaker 4: Of blow votes.
Speaker 1: And as a forward, as a forward forward as a forward,
Speaker 1: so you might.
Speaker 3: Have hoped you could have started as a forward because
Speaker 3: you did stand Tony Lockett at full back in thirteen
Speaker 3: hundred goals.
Speaker 4: Of course not the record, but thirty hundred goals.
Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing do you?
Speaker 2: I mean you said before the game that game, when
Speaker 2: you're playing against Tony Lockett, you know that he's a
Speaker 2: chance to kick. You know that that milestone figure thirteen hundred.
Speaker 2: You said, I'm in a no lose situation. If he
Speaker 2: kicks the goals, I'll go down in history as the
Speaker 2: player he was on and if I stop him, I'll
Speaker 2: be remembered as the player that stopped him from the
Speaker 2: breaking the record. You go down in history in regard
Speaker 2: to that, don't you.
Speaker 5: For ninety years the Collywood Footay Club, I have held
Speaker 5: the record.
Speaker 4: And for sixty two years it's stood at.
Speaker 1: Twelve ninety nine.
Speaker 2: Will he write his name in the record book forever?
Speaker 3: Come on?
Speaker 1: Play with this kick?
Speaker 6: It's going to go And we were reached.
Speaker 1: I do, But I don't know if that's you're not
Speaker 1: happy with it because everyone brings it up. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I said was there was an AFL career there as well.
Speaker 2: Of course we'll get to the premiership medals as well,
Speaker 2: But that was the feeling that day going into it.
Speaker 2: College was struggling and that was a wooden Spoon year
Speaker 2: for Collingwoods. That was a battle. How do you stopped
Speaker 2: the big fella? It's pretty hard, isn't it.
Speaker 1: It wasn't. And that that wooden spoon year, Eddie canceled
Speaker 1: their footy trip to Balleyd. He was so pissed he
Speaker 1: said he has I won't say what he said, but
Speaker 1: he goes, there's no footy trip this year. He was.
Speaker 1: He was livid.
Speaker 3: As Glenn Archer would say, you played for premiership ships
Speaker 3: and footy trips, they would have gone down like a
Speaker 3: wrought iron hang glider.
Speaker 1: It didn't go down.
Speaker 2: Well. That was his first full year as president and
Speaker 2: he's pulled the footy trip and one of them the
Speaker 2: blokes just happy coppy.
Speaker 1: We did Yeah, that was happy. There was nothing we
Speaker 1: could do. And also Mick was coming in as a
Speaker 1: new coach and I think he wanted to just set
Speaker 1: a new standard of where we're going.
Speaker 3: Blokes have an inverted Commas Sunday afternoon, the turn for
Speaker 3: five days into Queensland. That was it.
Speaker 4: You basically had a man Monday and you just moved on.
Speaker 1: No, they did that anyway, so it would be a
Speaker 1: four D a kind of vender back then, but I
Speaker 1: don't I think most guys did that anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, So that year. Was it a tough year?
Speaker 2: You obviously had some really good form that year, but
Speaker 2: it was a bloody tough year from a club perspective. Sure,
Speaker 2: he's about to get sacked. There's all talk about Mick
Speaker 2: Moldhouse coming in. Was it a you know, the final
Speaker 2: game at Victoria Park. Was it a tough year mentally
Speaker 2: as much as as it was on the scoreboard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always a tough year when the coach is
Speaker 1: under the is in the gum from from the media,
Speaker 1: especially as a player. I was fortunate at that time
Speaker 1: that I was one of the younger players. I would
Speaker 1: have hated to have been one of the older players.
Speaker 1: And I went through that when I was at Essendon.
Speaker 1: Later on when when Kevin Sheedy was when the whole
Speaker 1: thing happened with Sheets, when the transition of Matthew Knights
Speaker 1: came in, and I remember going out for lunch with
Speaker 1: a couple of the older players at Essendon and they said,
Speaker 1: now this is a great thing, you know, a new coach,
Speaker 1: fresh start. And I said, guys, this is not a
Speaker 1: good thing if you're twenty eight and older. And I said,
Speaker 1: I've been through before. I said, the new coach will
Speaker 1: come in and he'll just wipe the slate clean. And
Speaker 1: that's pretty much what happened if Lloyd.
Speaker 2: Became. But you'd seen it from the other perspective.
Speaker 1: As I had. Yeah, and youth saved me on that
Speaker 1: in that circumstance and at the ES and then my
Speaker 1: age cost me. So that's just what happened.
Speaker 4: Was it the right thing for the move on Shorey?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: Sure he's told Sack that. You know, he's trying to
Speaker 3: play a progressive game plan. He was trying to instill standards.
Speaker 3: He didn't always go about it the right way, but
Speaker 3: you know, I suppose when when mixed coming in, it
Speaker 3: doesn't matter, does it.
Speaker 1: I really felt for Tony Shaw. I thought he was
Speaker 1: I actually thought he was a really good coach and
Speaker 1: he had some fantastic ideas.
Speaker 5: I thank you for your cooperation over the period of
Speaker 5: time that I've coached you, but it cannot help us.
Speaker 5: The past has passed. We need now to build a future,
Speaker 5: and it starts today. I wish you all the best.
Speaker 5: I say, go out, and enjoy it. And I'll tell
Speaker 5: you what, I've only enjoyed football one time, and that's
Speaker 5: when I've been a bloody winner as a player as
Speaker 5: a coach.
Speaker 4: And that's what our aim is today.
Speaker 5: Let's get out there and have a goal.
Speaker 1: And a lot of his ideas were before his time
Speaker 1: or the time of the league. At that moment, we
Speaker 1: were doing some set players. It was like real NFL
Speaker 1: slash NBA style and they were fantastic. Unfortunately, for sure,
Speaker 1: he just didn't have the cattle to execute what he
Speaker 1: wanted to do. He had a few rat bags at
Speaker 1: the club which didn't help him either. And you know,
Speaker 1: he was a health and training freak and he expected
Speaker 1: that from the playing group ever else. But it wasn't
Speaker 1: back then. It was still that. It was still the
Speaker 1: crossover prefet but most of us were pretty good. But
Speaker 1: he had had an old ailing aging list from that
Speaker 1: premiership period. And it's always a tricky, a tricky situation
Speaker 1: for a coach.
Speaker 3: Were you a rat bag? Were you a Skelly wag?
Speaker 3: You and Chris Tarrett were good mates.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: It was the intersection of the old age versus the
Speaker 3: modern age with elite professionalism you're.
Speaker 4: A bit of al added times there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt that I never did anything that young
Speaker 1: kids don't do today. Actually, I probably don't do anything.
Speaker 1: I think a good thing. I think of my daughter,
Speaker 1: I think my God. But yeah, like I mean, going
Speaker 1: we go out to the to the pub on a
Speaker 1: Saturday night, Like I mean, I just thought that was
Speaker 1: pretty normal. People couldn't understand that we did it while
Speaker 1: we were still playing footy, but I'd kind of grown
Speaker 1: up with it at morning side when I was there.
Speaker 1: So it was beers in actually in the rooms, and
Speaker 1: then after the games and then you'd go on from that.
Speaker 1: And in the early days that's what I did. But
Speaker 1: then as the change overcame, it had it had to change.
Speaker 2: You lived together for a period as well, yourself and
Speaker 2: tas for memory, didn't you, And with that you had
Speaker 2: an unwritten rule, whatever happens in the house, we don't
Speaker 2: tell anyone else about. Was it true? Yeah, that'd written that.
Speaker 2: We just whatever happens, if there's a party in here,
Speaker 2: we don't tell anyone else about.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I just said, look at this is our sanctuary,
Speaker 1: and I said, whatever you do here, it'll never leave here.
Speaker 1: So you can be comfortable with that, you reflect on
Speaker 1: the young kids that come through these days.
Speaker 3: They don't have any of the fun that you had
Speaker 3: off field. That you know, obviously you still had an
Speaker 3: extraordinary career, but they just they are so uber focused
Speaker 3: and they missed something in their lives that they can
Speaker 3: never get back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that a lot of them are
Speaker 1: babied as well. I think I think you've got to
Speaker 1: suffer a bit of hardship along the way. You know,
Speaker 1: people cook for them, they clean for them, they do
Speaker 1: their washing. They I mean by the time the bill,
Speaker 1: by the time they're thirty, they're just these thirty year
Speaker 1: old babies.
Speaker 2: Well, they've got to grow up at thirty, don't they do.
Speaker 1: That's it. I think at some point you've got it.
Speaker 1: You've got to get out there and live, live a
Speaker 1: little bit and make sometimes you got to make some
Speaker 1: bad decisions to learn.
Speaker 2: So you're happy with the era that you played in.
Speaker 2: You played in that really good crossover period, didn't you
Speaker 2: where it was professional but it was not the way
Speaker 2: it is today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I loved it. I think I was very
Speaker 1: fortunate to play that at that time.
Speaker 3: So Mark Cleman gets delivered a handwritten letter I think
Speaker 3: from Chris Tarrant by you that basically says Chris has
Speaker 3: gone back to Mildui. To take us through that pretty
Speaker 3: extraordinary chapter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we went out one night and then I came
Speaker 1: home and Chris wasn't home, and yeah, and then there
Speaker 1: was just this letter and it said I've had enough,
Speaker 1: I'm gone back to Mildura. So he headed into the
Speaker 1: club and Mark Klein was the player lows on manager
Speaker 1: or something like that, and he said, we need to
Speaker 1: It was actually in pre season. He goes, we need
Speaker 1: to get up to Mildura to see him, and I said,
Speaker 1: all right, well off you go, and he said, no,
Speaker 1: you're coming.
Speaker 2: The car trip or no plane or a car.
Speaker 1: Or was playing they charted a plane. Yeah, so he
Speaker 1: flew up to Mildua. We picked up Chris. Chris before this, No,
Speaker 1: he wouldn't answer his phone. In fact, he left his
Speaker 1: phone at home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he just completely shut down from the world. Wanted
Speaker 2: to go home.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 2: And you're thinking who's going to pay the rent as well?
Speaker 2: Did you feel he would come back? Did you feel
Speaker 2: that the club would somehow convince him that. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's a freakish talent and would have been a tragedy,
Speaker 2: lost a footy in a sense, wouldn't he Absolutely?
Speaker 1: To be honest, I didn't though, because I hadn't seen
Speaker 1: this before, and I hadn't seen it from Chris either.
Speaker 1: I learned later on there was some other stuff going
Speaker 1: on with him. But what happened after that is we
Speaker 1: after we got to Militioruy, we picked him up and
Speaker 1: then we flew down to something like the Raven or
Speaker 1: something like that, and then we got taken down to Portsy.
Speaker 2: The old Eduardo. Eduardo was down there, wasn't he.
Speaker 1: Eddo was on holidays with Rob. I was sharing a
Speaker 1: place together and from frontline, wasn't it? Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: That was a hilarious night. Absolutely, but the whole cracked
Speaker 1: up in the reds and you just talked that's it. Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 4: And Taz was happy to come back and you know
Speaker 4: break Bread.
Speaker 1: Yeah he was. And so we went down to Portsy
Speaker 1: and at this point in time, everyone was still training
Speaker 1: and I was kind of feeling bad, like we're at Portsy.
Speaker 1: But I think the club they knew that me being
Speaker 1: there was going to help them try and I know
Speaker 1: the reason we is to get him to stay.
Speaker 3: And so what was it not like what's Ed saying?
Speaker 3: What's Tas saying? You were just sitting there witnessing at all.
Speaker 1: Honestly, Taz didn't really say anything. I hope I didn't
Speaker 1: say much. It was just mainly Edie just telling stories
Speaker 1: about himself. It worked somehow, Yeah, it actually works. He
Speaker 1: is hilarious that guy.
Speaker 2: Wow, when you look back, that must be one of
Speaker 2: the more remarkable nights of you, of your footy journey
Speaker 2: in a sense, you.
Speaker 1: Know what I when now that you've spoken about it,
Speaker 1: it's just it probably doesn't. It's kind of unbelievable really,
Speaker 1: but it's just one of those things that I just
Speaker 1: thought was just normal at the time.
Speaker 3: Take us through Ed's involvement, you know, the craziness, the
Speaker 3: good stuff, the bad stuff.
Speaker 4: He was, He was and remains a force of nature.
Speaker 1: He was and I think he was. He was a
Speaker 1: blessing in disguise to that club when he came in,
Speaker 1: because he did turn it around. My only criticism of
Speaker 1: what it did was he took calling it away from
Speaker 1: Victoria Park.
Speaker 7: Today, it's a hugely emotional day, but not one of sadness.
Speaker 7: We say goodbye to Jock mcawell Stadium. At Victoria Riot
Speaker 7: Park and look back on great memories and victories and battles,
Speaker 7: the hard times we've endured, and that indomitable Collingwood spirit
Speaker 7: that has always.
Speaker 2: Just said that before you you felt the Heartland should
Speaker 2: have stayed and as good a facility as it is
Speaker 2: that you know where it is now, but you love
Speaker 2: that suburb and gritty sort of style of footy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the Bombers left Windy Hill as well. I
Speaker 1: think they should have stayed there. I live in sin
Speaker 1: Kilda now and you've got the Junction Oval literally across
Speaker 1: the road from where I used to live on fitz
Speaker 1: Roy Street, and I just was thinking, how some killer
Speaker 1: are not based here is just ridiculous. But you know,
Speaker 1: people make some bad decisions and we just have to
Speaker 1: live with them.
Speaker 3: So you get a year under Mick Maltouse. Your reflections
Speaker 3: on Mick for what was only a single season.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really enjoyed Mick. I enjoyed his coaching. I
Speaker 1: just enjoyed the way he had a genuine love for
Speaker 1: his players, He really did, and he also had a
Speaker 1: genuine interest in what we're doing outside of footy. Quite often,
Speaker 1: when coaches would talk, i'd quite zone out, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just it just becomes noise. But with Micky was
Speaker 1: he just had you the whole time and what he
Speaker 1: said always made sense.
Speaker 2: Did he paint a picture that this footy club's going
Speaker 2: to go somewhere really quickly? Did you get that feeling
Speaker 2: that that's speaking to a few players, that's what he
Speaker 2: was suggesting, Well, we'll get there really quickly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So he invited Chris and I over to his
Speaker 1: house for dinner early on and he said, we went out,
Speaker 1: we left the family, We went out a bit like that,
Speaker 1: you know, you go out and have cigars. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: actually went out onto the porch. We didn't have cigars,
Speaker 1: but we went out onto the porch, no cigars or brandy.
Speaker 1: But and he was he said, he said, boys, he is,
Speaker 1: We're going to get there. That's what he said. I
Speaker 1: believed it, even though we'd come last. I actually believe
Speaker 1: we'd do it. And it did turn around very quickly
Speaker 1: for them.
Speaker 2: But you weren't a part of it, which is quite
Speaker 2: remarkable when you think about it now, that he's invited
Speaker 2: you around and that you almost in two thousand season,
Speaker 2: you almost signed a new deal at Collingwood, didn't you
Speaker 2: was that close.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how close it was. Yeah, I done.
Speaker 1: I had some I had a bad ankle injury that
Speaker 1: year and the doctors said I had three years left
Speaker 1: in the ankle, basically.
Speaker 2: No more after that. That's no more. That's it.
Speaker 4: A few big ones. I haven't known those doctors.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you find yourself at the Brisbane lines?
Speaker 4: Swap for Jared Malloy.
Speaker 1: Come home from Thailand led her under the door. There
Speaker 1: was no taking phones on holidays back then, and it
Speaker 1: was just from my manager Ron Jos Joseph saying call
Speaker 1: me asap, So I called him.
Speaker 4: What are you thinking at that stage?
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm thinking this is probably not good because
Speaker 1: I was really happy at Collingwood and I wanted to
Speaker 1: stay at Collingwood, but I understood the nature of the
Speaker 1: beast and anyway, I called him up and he said,
Speaker 1: he goes, I got Gubby Allen from Brisbane here. He
Speaker 1: wants to see you. And I said, oh, they can't
Speaker 1: be good.
Speaker 2: So what went wrong? Do you think in a sense,
Speaker 2: do you think that you and Chris were so tight
Speaker 2: and so close that they thought we've got to break
Speaker 2: this up? Or do you think there's any in any
Speaker 2: situation like that.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think that had anything to
Speaker 1: do with it. I think they probably needed another Well,
Speaker 1: they brought in Jared, traded for Jared, so I'm thinking
Speaker 1: they probably needed a forward. They had Presty Simon press
Speaker 1: g Como him up with kind of similar positions.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they probably.
Speaker 1: They probably thought that he was we don't need two
Speaker 1: of them. We don't need two goalkeepers. One's enough, but
Speaker 1: we need another player like Jared up forward. That's That's
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking.
Speaker 3: So changes in a heartbeat, lightning, you know, Invested Mixed
Speaker 3: brought me out there.
Speaker 4: I didn't get the brandies.
Speaker 1: And then it's extraordinary, it is, and it happened so quickly,
Speaker 1: like literally within a week later, I've got the guys,
Speaker 1: the Brisbane guys that are packing up the house and
Speaker 1: moving everything to Brisbane. And then that's it. It's all over,
Speaker 1: it's finished.
Speaker 2: Were you pissed off? Were you pissed off with Colvid
Speaker 2: started this journey that was going to go somewhere. You've
Speaker 2: been told we're going somewhere, and all of a sudden
Speaker 2: it's gone.
Speaker 1: A little bit. But then you quickly realize that you
Speaker 1: just have to get on with what you're doing and
Speaker 1: then the energy then goes to Brisbane. But in saying that,
Speaker 1: when we when we beat Collingwood in the two and
Speaker 1: the eighth, especially the two Grand Final, for me, it
Speaker 1: was a really hollow victory, Like defeating Essendon the year
Speaker 1: before was just exhilarating because they were a fantastic team
Speaker 1: and I hadn't really no connections with Essendon, but to
Speaker 1: beat Collingwood and the guys that we started that journey with,
Speaker 1: I'd actually stopped the journey or impacted it when I
Speaker 1: should have been a part of it. So that that
Speaker 1: was conflicting for me on that.
Speaker 3: Day and with the evil enemy, whereas you know, Collingwood
Speaker 3: were a ragtag bunch and some young, exciting kids, but
Speaker 3: also some some scrappers. So I mean, there was so
Speaker 3: much to love about Collingwood in two and two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we spoke about it when we were at
Speaker 1: Collingwood that how we'd stayed together and we'd stick that together,
Speaker 1: especially the Interstate Boys, because we used to have that.
Speaker 1: We used to have these nights and dinners where when
Speaker 1: everyone would come over and it was just when the
Speaker 1: PlayStation was getting going and we were playing the FIFA
Speaker 1: World Cup and you choose a country and then we'd
Speaker 1: have the tournaments and then it get quite heated and
Speaker 1: players loved it. But yeah, we were really tight that
Speaker 1: that little group of interstate boys.
Speaker 4: You were cheeky.
Speaker 3: Did you send Jared Lloyd text message after you on
Speaker 3: the flag five months on?
Speaker 1: I did? Yeah?
Speaker 4: What did it say?
Speaker 1: I was very so I just said thanks to this.
Speaker 1: It's a bit It was definitely chea a bit disrespectful us.
Speaker 2: Did he follow it back with a with a text
Speaker 2: back or well?
Speaker 1: First of you responded with who is this right? And
Speaker 1: then I said it's mail and then he responded with
Speaker 1: good you dighead.
Speaker 2: So I mean that's it. I mean, you're you're a
Speaker 2: young lad. You've just want a PREMI year. Do you
Speaker 2: obviously look back and say, probably shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 1: I should not have said that. That was very disrespectful.
Speaker 1: But I was at the pub with Tim Knighting and
Speaker 1: John Brown.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't need to add any further. Did you
Speaker 2: feel like it was like, obviously you win. You don't
Speaker 2: realize you're going to go on and play in more Premierships,
Speaker 2: but it was a bit of a win for p
Speaker 2: and G as well, Like in a sense, like what
Speaker 2: did it mean to the people of P and G
Speaker 2: winning winning that premiership?
Speaker 1: The AFL, P and NG It meant to lot. It
Speaker 1: was a real boost in the arm. I shot it
Speaker 1: down front. Yeah, for the development of the game. If
Speaker 1: in hindsight, I'm not sure whether the AFL did enough correct.
Speaker 2: What do you think about it now?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I think now it's a massive story. If
Speaker 1: a player from P and G came to Oh there's
Speaker 1: a young player from Yeah. But if a player came
Speaker 1: through that had that profile that I had at the
Speaker 1: time and played in the premiership and won it, I'd
Speaker 1: be grabbing that guy and doing a lot more to
Speaker 1: promote the game in the country.
Speaker 4: Two thousand and two you've talked about that.
Speaker 3: You felt queasy, you know obviously come up against the
Speaker 3: you know, year old team, the Pies. John Brown famously
Speaker 3: says that the biggest sprays that ever occur first day
Speaker 3: preseason with Lee Matthews, you know, just knocking you blokes
Speaker 3: down a peg. So you've won the unwinnable premiership. How
Speaker 3: did you set you up for that next year and
Speaker 3: of course the subsequent years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's about the motivation. And I do remember I
Speaker 1: had a conversation with Lee over the preseason going into
Speaker 1: two thousand and two and I said, I'm really struggling
Speaker 1: right now to find the motivation to get back into training.
Speaker 1: And he said to me along the lines of that's understandable,
Speaker 1: but you've just got to pick yourself up and just go.
Speaker 1: And I think it's more so once the games started
Speaker 1: and we got back into the competitive spirit of it,
Speaker 1: that you get back into it. Two thousand and two
Speaker 1: was a far more successful season than two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: but we nearly lost the Grand Final, and we came
Speaker 1: within a whisker of losing that, and there was a
Speaker 1: particular time in the last quarter where Josh Fraser kicked
Speaker 1: the banana from the boundary and then literally ten seconds
Speaker 1: later it started raining. I remember I was walking back
Speaker 1: and I looked at Justin Lepage and I said, we
Speaker 1: could actually lose this. I didn't. I didn't say it.
Speaker 1: There's a lot more swearing that that we could actually
Speaker 1: lose this. I said, like, this is slipping through our
Speaker 1: fingers and we need to do something here to to
Speaker 1: get it back.
Speaker 2: From to hunt absolutely and the Anthony Rocker goal that wasn't.
Speaker 4: As much time as you want because understanding.
Speaker 2: Just got over some therapy with this. You had a
Speaker 2: good look at it. You weren't sure after the game,
Speaker 2: were you, Anthony Rocker Still it says to this day
Speaker 2: it was one hundred percent of goal. A lot of
Speaker 2: you know, we're pasted, a lot of the water's gone
Speaker 2: under the bridge. Now you can tell us that it was.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a Wayne Harm's moment.
Speaker 2: It's very much a Collingwood thing, isn't it. It is
Speaker 2: the what happened. Tell us about your thoughts and you
Speaker 2: know what you saw at the moment.
Speaker 1: Well, I know Anthony really well, and I know that
Speaker 1: he doesn't celebrate goals if he if he hasn't kicked
Speaker 1: him right. So if he is that, he'll he'll he'll
Speaker 1: be disappointed in himself when he kicked it. He's done
Speaker 1: the big the pump, the jump and pump. And I've
Speaker 1: looked over and I've and it looked like it was
Speaker 1: a goal from where I was standing, but I could
Speaker 1: I could understand the goal ump by that stands right
Speaker 1: underneath the post may have thought it would have shaved it,
Speaker 1: who knows, But from where I stood, it kind of
Speaker 1: looked like it's snuck in.
Speaker 3: Tuk Us through Akka and your I suppose love for
Speaker 3: the great stuff, but you know the frustration famously, Len
Speaker 3: Matthew's caught it a consultant at times. Do you feel
Speaker 3: like the club handled him really well until it just
Speaker 3: couldn't handle him anymore.
Speaker 1: I just think that's exactly how it happened. In any industry,
Speaker 1: you look after your resources, especially the ones that are
Speaker 1: good for you. And Aka was very good for that club.
Speaker 1: And he wasn't just good on the field. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was brilliant on the field, but he was very
Speaker 1: good for the Brisbane lines in Brisbane. It's good for
Speaker 1: he was good for AFL in Brisbane. He he was
Speaker 1: putting the lines on the front page of the Courier Mail,
Speaker 1: which I don't think anyone had ever seen ever, you know,
Speaker 1: and he was on radio program's TV. I understood that
Speaker 1: his plight. He wanted to be a celebrity AFL footballer,
Speaker 1: and I had no issues with that. The only problem
Speaker 1: was it was always going to there was always going
Speaker 1: to be a head on collision somewhere at some point
Speaker 1: and at some time with whoever was running the climb
Speaker 1: and at the time, it was still Lea and that's
Speaker 1: what happened.
Speaker 3: Any issues with his handstands as sat in this seat
Speaker 3: and talked about how it got eradicated at the Bulldogs.
Speaker 1: Nope, couldn't care. I couldn't care what anyone else does
Speaker 1: on the field as long as it doesn't affect their performance.
Speaker 2: How confident were you going into that Grand Final against Collingwood?
Speaker 2: You said something, I don't know whether it was mind
Speaker 2: games or whatever, but you said, you know, they've already
Speaker 2: got the engraved Collingwood on the cup. You're obviously trying
Speaker 2: to get a bit of seed of doubt in their mind.
Speaker 2: And that's the way it turned out in a lot
Speaker 2: of ways, wasn't it. There were a lot of seeds
Speaker 2: of doubt in Collingwood's minds without Anthony Rocker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they beat us in that first fine as
Speaker 1: he said, so they were very confident. I knew that
Speaker 1: if it was a dry, slick day that we would
Speaker 1: be would be a chance, just just because of their personnel.
Speaker 1: I was just recently in Perth and I was caught
Speaker 1: up with Michael Braun and we were having a debate
Speaker 1: on his West Coast Eagles midfield and the Brisbane midfield,
Speaker 1: and we both just came to the conclusion that they
Speaker 1: were just too unbelievable midfields breaks. So I knew that
Speaker 1: and just came back to that. I knew that our midfield,
Speaker 1: if it was a nice dry day, they would have
Speaker 1: enough firepairer and class to to get the ball into
Speaker 1: our forward lines in scoring positions enough that would be
Speaker 1: a chance.
Speaker 2: They moment.
Speaker 3: Blokes like Colon Sure jumping out of the way, let's
Speaker 3: call it what it is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, no, as Colin woul support, you'd say that happened.
Speaker 2: They There were some very very nervous moments from Collingwood
Speaker 2: from that from almost the outset, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is a great thing about Lee, he
Speaker 1: just he just always said get your head and shoulders
Speaker 1: over the ball, and even if that means that it
Speaker 1: comes at some personal injury or sacrifice, that's what That's
Speaker 1: what the team has to do. And we did that
Speaker 1: on the day. I don't want to speak ill of
Speaker 1: the Collingwood players or what happened with them, but that's
Speaker 1: what we did. And it just seemed a bit. It
Speaker 1: seemed like we just all had we're going for the
Speaker 1: one cause and it turned out that way.
Speaker 2: It was meant v boys.
Speaker 4: Really wouldn't it that physicality?
Speaker 3: I mean, you and Chris Scott, you are involved in
Speaker 3: that famous incident with Nick gree Well, when Nick was
Speaker 3: banged up as a young kid there, you played by
Speaker 3: the rules of the day. Later on you weren't allowed
Speaker 3: to injure to target injured players. Well, what's your thoughts
Speaker 3: on that incident and what.
Speaker 4: Happened that day. There's a lot of discussion about it afterwards.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm disappointed that Nick actually was able to play
Speaker 1: footy again, running and.
Speaker 6: Trenched him on the shoulder. I can get it before
Speaker 6: him take both suffered him up off the play one
Speaker 6: hundred meters off the plane. Nick Reeve an't standing there.
Speaker 6: Scott and Michael went up and crunched that right shoulder.
Speaker 1: It's like watching the wrestling. Yeah, So when he came
Speaker 1: back I was a bit disappointed I didn't get him properly. Now,
Speaker 1: but you're right, Ralphie, it was the time of the
Speaker 1: day and the times of the day, and it was
Speaker 1: win it all costs and getting Nick out of the
Speaker 1: game was what I thought we had to do.
Speaker 2: Was that what made your team great as well? That
Speaker 2: you were ruthless. You you were prepared to do whatever
Speaker 2: within the rules, and sometimes even a little bit without
Speaker 2: to actually get the job done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, with a lot of workplaces
Speaker 1: and work things now, there's there's a lot of things
Speaker 1: that you can and can't do. But with that particular team,
Speaker 1: we had a let's call it a win. It all costs, mentality,
Speaker 1: whatever it takes, and yeah, sometimes we did cross the line.
Speaker 1: I look back on it and probably a bit embarrassed
Speaker 1: with a couple of things that I've done, but at
Speaker 1: the time, that's just what we did.
Speaker 4: And you know what, that's what you did.
Speaker 3: And then you look at the image of Nick basically
Speaker 3: in tears on the bench and you're not to know
Speaker 3: that he's going to have that physical reaction.
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't know. He was a big crow baby.
Speaker 2: Did you ever talk to him about it? You would
Speaker 2: have crossed paths at some stage, I would imagine, did
Speaker 2: you ever have a chat?
Speaker 1: We crossed pars, but we just never spoke about it.
Speaker 1: It was one of those things that I know, it's
Speaker 1: like an ex girlfriend just you remember, but you just
Speaker 1: don't talk about it.
Speaker 2: Spoils So three flags in a row like you remarkable.
Speaker 2: You know, one of your last years at college it
Speaker 2: ends in a wooden spoon, you get the three flags.
Speaker 2: Are you super proud of the fact that you played
Speaker 2: well in those Grand finals? Like, not just as a group,
Speaker 2: but you personally. I think I think you might have
Speaker 2: played on Tristan Walker or something like that in a
Speaker 2: fair bit of the two thousand and three Grand Final,
Speaker 2: but you know you had a tough one against Rock
Speaker 2: of the year before, but you play well in grand finals.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I always proud of myself and playing well in
Speaker 1: big games on the big stage. So, like I said,
Speaker 1: I was lucky that in those games I was a
Speaker 1: peak fitness.
Speaker 3: Do you care about history? You the greatest team in
Speaker 3: the modern era? Do you know compete yourself to a
Speaker 3: long different people? Obviously Macus Machine team and the great
Speaker 3: Melbourne Sizer late fifties and six.
Speaker 1: No, I'd probably greatest, higher than all of them. That's great,
Speaker 1: seriously that you do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you look at your midfield, you look at your forwards, backs,
Speaker 2: you think you were the best.
Speaker 1: I know, I think the Hawthorne team of the eighties,
Speaker 1: so actually least team that team, Dermy Dunstall, Dipper, Tucky,
Speaker 1: I think they played what eight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they played seven grad finals in yeah, eighty three
Speaker 2: to eighty nine, whatever, that was, eighty three to eighty nine.
Speaker 2: They played in every Grand final that time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then they want to get in ninety one.
Speaker 2: Correct, They want to get in ninety one with some
Speaker 2: younger guys but still a few of the older guys there.
Speaker 2: So you think that might be the best.
Speaker 1: I think that team was the best team that I remember.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of my leading into that Grand Final, the Port
Speaker 2: Adelaide game in terms of you know, you've had the
Speaker 2: shorter you've had injuries, but you've had the shorter turnaround
Speaker 2: you've played in Melbourne. You've had to have flights back
Speaker 2: and forward. Did that cost you the wind? Do you think, no,
Speaker 2: we would have lost to Port You would have lost regardless.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've gone back and looked at that and watched
Speaker 1: that game, and they would have beaten this regardless. They
Speaker 1: were they were a good side, they were fit, and
Speaker 1: they were basically us in two thousand and one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we were Essendon. They just ran over the top
Speaker 1: of that analogy.
Speaker 2: That is because it is that way. You were a
Speaker 2: bit banged up and tired.
Speaker 1: We let it half time and Esson led it half
Speaker 1: time and they just ran over the top of us
Speaker 1: that we had no answers for. If that game had
Speaker 1: gone for another quarter, we would have lost by one
Speaker 1: hundred points.
Speaker 2: Really tell us about the fight. There a few fights
Speaker 2: that day. Lynchy had a few throwing cut lunches, and
Speaker 2: it was a pretty was that part and parcel of
Speaker 2: the fact that you guys thought were trying to do
Speaker 2: everything to win this, but we just can't.
Speaker 1: I think so. And I think Lynch you had done
Speaker 1: it Hamstring, Yeah, by that stage, So I think he
Speaker 1: felt that. Actually I shouldn't say, I think I shouldn't
Speaker 1: speak for him, but from what I saw, I think
Speaker 1: that Alistair might have thought that he couldn't help us
Speaker 1: anymore that day, and the only way he could do
Speaker 1: that was to maybe take a couple of them out.
Speaker 3: You said after the game, I think you got one
Speaker 3: of the journals to come back after twenty minutes. You
Speaker 3: needed to compose yourself, and you said a few things
Speaker 3: that we did are uncharacteristic of us.
Speaker 4: I mean a few egos got in the way as well.
Speaker 3: We had a shot on goal taken away by a
Speaker 3: decision that was reversed, which for the back line was
Speaker 3: devastating instead of shooting for goal. They're big words, but
Speaker 3: that's what happens in the quadron of a Grand final.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was a twelve point turnaround Byron Picker
Speaker 1: kicks a goal. That's right. Yeah. So, and then you
Speaker 1: need everything going right for you on Grand Final day.
Speaker 1: You need you need the bold of bounds for you
Speaker 1: need some decisions from the umpire and you need to
Speaker 1: be playing well. And if you're having a shot for
Speaker 1: goal right in front and someone does something but it
Speaker 1: goes down the other end and they score, that's not
Speaker 1: going well for you. And they're the things that when
Speaker 1: you look back on in hindsight, are the things that
Speaker 1: cost you. And we had to be, had to have
Speaker 1: been better.
Speaker 4: Came Moon.
Speaker 3: He always thinks about the losses more than the wins.
Speaker 3: How do you reflect upon it? You just think about
Speaker 3: the three pairter? Do you think about the one that
Speaker 3: got away?
Speaker 1: I think about the one they got away that kept me,
Speaker 1: that kept me up for a while, that one did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd think about it right up until like easily ten
Speaker 1: years after.
Speaker 2: Really, you said, you've said once before that you cried
Speaker 2: after that game. Had you done that in your footy
Speaker 2: career before.
Speaker 1: No, I hadn't, and it was it was quite strange.
Speaker 1: I came into the the rooms disappointed. Yeah, there was
Speaker 1: no in the sense of tears were coming. This is
Speaker 1: me after just calling Nickaller. But it was it was
Speaker 1: only when I saw my family. My family came into
Speaker 1: the rooms and then I just I just started crying
Speaker 1: and I felt that I'd let them down. As I
Speaker 1: was fit that day. Turn I thought I was going
Speaker 1: to have a good game.
Speaker 2: She did have a good game.
Speaker 1: She played it right.
Speaker 2: It was a great deal, wasn't it. You played Warren Treadray,
Speaker 2: Foreign Treadery.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I just felt that I'd let them down.
Speaker 3: So you know, your ankles held up, you're playing great football,
Speaker 3: but you're twenty nine years of age and you tell
Speaker 3: Brisbane that's it.
Speaker 4: I'm ready for the next phase of my life, is
Speaker 4: what you said. How did it unfold? Now?
Speaker 1: I actually went into Lee's office and I said, well,
Speaker 1: they knew that I was doing some stuff outside of
Speaker 1: footage anyway, so I just went in there and said
Speaker 1: I did like a day off to do that during
Speaker 1: the week, and he said no, and.
Speaker 2: He right respondence will be entered into it no.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was no, There was no I think you're
Speaker 1: making your decision a bad decision. I think you're making
Speaker 1: the wrong decision, or do you want to have a
Speaker 1: little think about it, come back to me. It's just
Speaker 1: like that. And I said I'm thinking about retiring if
Speaker 1: I can't, and he said okay, and that was it.
Speaker 4: It was that harsh.
Speaker 1: An hour later, I was in Michael Bowser's office signing
Speaker 1: my release papers.
Speaker 2: That's it. Is that a headspin like you were probably
Speaker 2: thinking about it, but you weren't probably certain if you'd
Speaker 2: have said I'll give you the day off, would you
Speaker 2: have kept playing?
Speaker 1: Probably not.
Speaker 2: You thought that was probably nearly it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd spoken to my family as well, and my
Speaker 1: dad was saying you should keep playing, yeah, and my
Speaker 1: mum was saying do what you want, as mums did.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Of course I still had a year to run on
Speaker 1: my contract. Yeah, so I just wanted one day off
Speaker 1: to work on this stuff.
Speaker 3: You know, some charity staff, a foundation, some of the
Speaker 3: expanding P and G stuff.
Speaker 1: Is that right, Yeah, that's it was. It was the
Speaker 1: early days of my PNG work and I just, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just felt that I needed just one day for development.
Speaker 1: Because I knew that I was, I was coming to
Speaker 1: the end of it twenty nine and.
Speaker 3: So at least sense the fact that you know that
Speaker 3: there were greater issues there, or that he thought your
Speaker 3: body was breaking down, and you know, because it seems
Speaker 3: unreasonably harsh from.
Speaker 1: I think he just and he said it. He said
Speaker 1: to me, if you can't prepare to be a football
Speaker 1: then shouldn't footballer, which he's right, he's absolutely spot on.
Speaker 1: So I retired that day and that was it.
Speaker 2: How long after that was the cheeky little text from
Speaker 2: Gary O'Donell, who you'd obviously worked with before. The cheeky
Speaker 2: little texts from Gary who was then at Essendon.
Speaker 1: He texted me about a week later. But he just
Speaker 1: texted me and said congratulations on you on your career
Speaker 1: and I said thanks, and then I said I'm off
Speaker 1: to Thailand for holiday now. So yeah, and that was it.
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't hear back from him for about
Speaker 1: six weeks. But he emailed this time because I checked
Speaker 1: my emails one of those internet cafes. Yeah, yeah, as
Speaker 1: you did back then, and there was another email there
Speaker 1: saying would you come down to Essen And I actually
Speaker 1: thought he meant come down as an assistant coach and
Speaker 1: I said, I said, Gary, I retired because I wanted
Speaker 1: to not spend so much time at footy. And I said,
Speaker 1: assistant coach, you spend more time than players. Way And
Speaker 1: he said no, no, I don't want you to be
Speaker 1: a coach. I want you to play. Wow. And I said,
Speaker 1: I don't know about this. I don't know how Prisoner
Speaker 1: are going to take this. I was retired and now
Speaker 1: you I think you have to stand out at footy
Speaker 1: for a year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because you had a year on your contract,
Speaker 3: so that's right, Yeah, I think yeah, And so fifty
Speaker 3: days on, yeah, you become an essence player.
Speaker 5: Controversial recruit Mel Michael has trained as an essendont player
Speaker 5: for the first time. The former line is hopeful his
Speaker 5: business schedule will allow him to play a full season.
Speaker 2: They pissed off Brisbane, Yes, they were very Yeah, tried
Speaker 2: to stop it or tried to do everything they can
Speaker 2: to put it. They didn't try to coach you back
Speaker 2: or anything like that.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not sure the lengths they went to stop it,
Speaker 1: but they weren't happy. I didn't know that.
Speaker 3: And I think Lee talked about you know, how many
Speaker 3: retirements does you need? You know, Dame Nelly Melbourne kind
Speaker 3: of plastics at the least, stuff which we love. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but it was it you felt like your body could
Speaker 3: stand up and you felt like you could be rejuvenated.
Speaker 1: I was. Again, it wasn't about I didn't want to
Speaker 1: play football. I still loved football. I still played football
Speaker 1: until my game play that thirty So I loved footy.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to spend a bit of time doing
Speaker 1: my professional development outside of football. And I'm just so
Speaker 1: grateful that Essendon gave me that chance.
Speaker 4: Two pretty fun years at Essendon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I loved it, absolutely loved and I remember doing
Speaker 1: an interview with you Ralfie my first year when I
Speaker 1: got down there. So but and it just goes so
Speaker 1: quickly though. But Messenon was a great club to finish
Speaker 1: with because it was good to go back to a
Speaker 1: big club, playing at the MCG again. And I think
Speaker 1: when it players exiting out of football there the contacts
Speaker 1: you can make it, the bigger clubs certainly helping that transition.
Speaker 1: So it was a good club.
Speaker 2: You played with Buckley, you played with Voss, you played
Speaker 2: with Herd. It's impossible to say who was the best
Speaker 2: out of those. But give us a feel what it
Speaker 2: was like playing for them, and who were you closer
Speaker 2: to out of that obviously, Vossy, you'd been there a
Speaker 2: lot longer. But tell us about those three amazing players
Speaker 2: you played with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just all Guns and Mason, and the three of
Speaker 1: them were pretty good guys as well. I didn't really
Speaker 1: have a lot to do with Hurdy Herdie it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I only had the one year with Herdy
Speaker 1: so plus he was also right at the end of
Speaker 1: his career as well. But Bucks and Michael were just
Speaker 1: two freaks.
Speaker 2: You played in Hurdy's last game, didn't you, And Perth
Speaker 2: was Sty's last game as well. That's the big farewell.
Speaker 1: That's it. Yeah we had the big comeback and got
Speaker 1: rolled in the end by goal. But yeah, now there
Speaker 1: absolute superstars and they'll probably be future legends of the AFL.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to SACKED. This podcast is made possible
Speaker 2: thanks to subscribers to The Herald Sun. To find out more,
Speaker 2: go to Haroldsun dot com dot au or download the
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