1 00:00:03,450 --> 00:00:06,479 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,940 --> 00:00:09,190 Sean Aylmer: We tend not to speak to a lot of politicians 3 00:00:09,190 --> 00:00:11,299 Sean Aylmer: here on Fear and Greed, but every now and then 4 00:00:11,390 --> 00:00:14,110 Sean Aylmer: we make an exception. We're probably six months out from 5 00:00:14,110 --> 00:00:17,489 Sean Aylmer: a federal election and unlike any in recent history, it'll 6 00:00:17,489 --> 00:00:20,930 Sean Aylmer: be a poll contested over the government's handling of the pandemic, 7 00:00:21,130 --> 00:00:24,070 Sean Aylmer: both the health and the economic impact. But it's also 8 00:00:24,070 --> 00:00:27,210 Sean Aylmer: going to be a battle over climate policy, our changing place 9 00:00:27,210 --> 00:00:30,670 Sean Aylmer: in the world, and of course the economy. Labor frontbencher, 10 00:00:30,730 --> 00:00:33,950 Sean Aylmer: Tanya Plibersek is the Shadow Minister for Education and Shadow 11 00:00:33,950 --> 00:00:36,500 Sean Aylmer: Minister for Women. Tanya, welcome to Fear and Greed. 12 00:00:36,850 --> 00:00:37,960 Tanya Plibersek: Thanks for having me, Sean. 13 00:00:38,180 --> 00:00:40,530 Sean Aylmer: Now I know Labor doesn't call the election, but when 14 00:00:40,530 --> 00:00:41,479 Sean Aylmer: do you reckon it'll be? 15 00:00:41,820 --> 00:00:45,409 Tanya Plibersek: Look, I wasn't ruling out December, but I think as 16 00:00:45,409 --> 00:00:48,220 Tanya Plibersek: we get closer to those potential dates, the fourth or 17 00:00:48,220 --> 00:00:50,409 Tanya Plibersek: the 11th of December, it's looking less and less likely. 18 00:00:50,409 --> 00:00:52,900 Tanya Plibersek: I think it's most likely to be around March next year. 19 00:00:53,500 --> 00:00:56,090 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now, elections are often defined by a really big 20 00:00:56,090 --> 00:00:59,070 Sean Aylmer: issue and sometimes we don't realise that issue until afterwards. 21 00:00:59,070 --> 00:01:00,990 Sean Aylmer: In hindsight, we look back and think that was the 22 00:01:00,990 --> 00:01:04,830 Sean Aylmer: defining most. Do you have a view whenever the election is, 23 00:01:04,830 --> 00:01:08,000 Sean Aylmer: and let's say it's March next year or thereabouts, what the 24 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,580 Sean Aylmer: big issue will be? 25 00:01:09,580 --> 00:01:13,009 Tanya Plibersek: I think the government's handling of the pandemic will still 26 00:01:13,010 --> 00:01:16,590 Tanya Plibersek: be important, but people will also be looking forward to 27 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,900 Tanya Plibersek: how the government's going to rebuild the economy coming out 28 00:01:19,900 --> 00:01:24,110 Tanya Plibersek: of the lockdowns. And that means a real focus on 29 00:01:24,110 --> 00:01:29,310 Tanya Plibersek: job security, productivity, employment in caring sectors. And it also 30 00:01:29,310 --> 00:01:33,420 Tanya Plibersek: means how we're going with climate change and decarbonising the economy. 31 00:01:33,940 --> 00:01:35,360 Sean Aylmer: Okay. If you take a few of those, how do 32 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,660 Sean Aylmer: you think the government has performed economic wise during the 33 00:01:39,660 --> 00:01:42,779 Sean Aylmer: pandemic? Because in actual fact, we're in a pretty good 34 00:01:42,780 --> 00:01:44,809 Sean Aylmer: position as we stand here today. 35 00:01:45,190 --> 00:01:48,090 Tanya Plibersek: I think Australia as a nation has done very well 36 00:01:48,140 --> 00:01:51,420 Tanya Plibersek: and people have been prepared to look after each other, 37 00:01:51,490 --> 00:01:54,280 Tanya Plibersek: sacrifice for each other. A lot of people have lost 38 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,390 Tanya Plibersek: jobs or hours of work. There's been a great deal 39 00:01:57,390 --> 00:02:00,500 Tanya Plibersek: of insecurity. And I think the fact that our vaccination 40 00:02:00,500 --> 00:02:03,240 Tanya Plibersek: rates have gone well, that's a real tribute to Australians. 41 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,559 Tanya Plibersek: Our hospital system has coped well. It's a real tribute 42 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,340 Tanya Plibersek: to Medicare. I would say, I think the government's very 43 00:02:09,340 --> 00:02:15,639 Tanya Plibersek: slow initial rollout of vaccines and the bloody- minded refusal 44 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:20,680 Tanya Plibersek: to get involved in the quarantine system from the federal level, 45 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,400 Tanya Plibersek: I think they were real handbrakes on how we dealt 46 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,220 Tanya Plibersek: with the pandemic. It's pretty plain that the second big 47 00:02:27,220 --> 00:02:30,410 Tanya Plibersek: lockdowns in New South Wales and Victoria probably could have 48 00:02:30,410 --> 00:02:34,040 Tanya Plibersek: been shorter or avoided altogether if we'd got vaccines and 49 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,660 Tanya Plibersek: quarantine right in the first place. I also think a 50 00:02:37,660 --> 00:02:42,250 Tanya Plibersek: lot of small businesses and employers and employees in the 51 00:02:42,250 --> 00:02:45,530 Tanya Plibersek: sort of, I don't know, I guess you'd call newer sectors of the 52 00:02:45,530 --> 00:02:49,109 Tanya Plibersek: economy or less regulated sectors of the economy have really struggled. 53 00:02:49,110 --> 00:02:51,630 Tanya Plibersek: So I represent the federal seat of Sydney. If you 54 00:02:51,630 --> 00:02:56,929 Tanya Plibersek: look at what has happened to hospitality, entertainment, people like 55 00:02:56,930 --> 00:03:02,450 Tanya Plibersek: food delivery riders, they have really struggled. And I guess 56 00:03:02,490 --> 00:03:06,360 Tanya Plibersek: that is galling for those people when they see overpayments 57 00:03:06,430 --> 00:03:10,930 Tanya Plibersek: in JobKeeper, billions of dollars going to companies that actually 58 00:03:10,930 --> 00:03:14,440 Tanya Plibersek: saw their profits increase. If you're a small business and 59 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,269 Tanya Plibersek: you don't fit the exact criteria of government supports and 60 00:03:18,270 --> 00:03:21,089 Tanya Plibersek: you've missed out for some reason and you look at 61 00:03:21,090 --> 00:03:25,940 Tanya Plibersek: companies that have had really strong growth during lockdown, still 62 00:03:25,940 --> 00:03:29,010 Tanya Plibersek: benefiting from government support, I think that's tough. And like 63 00:03:29,010 --> 00:03:33,480 Tanya Plibersek: I say, sectors like live music, entertainment, they are huge 64 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:38,550 Tanya Plibersek: employers in my electorate and that workforce has, because they're 65 00:03:38,550 --> 00:03:42,260 Tanya Plibersek: not regularly employed, has really struggled to get assistance. So 66 00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:45,500 Tanya Plibersek: there's bright spots and there's areas that we definitely could 67 00:03:45,500 --> 00:03:46,170 Tanya Plibersek: have done better. 68 00:03:46,650 --> 00:03:50,180 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Let's move on to climate change. Now the coalition 69 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,540 Sean Aylmer: has finally confirmed its climate policy. The prime minister's at 70 00:03:53,540 --> 00:03:54,660 Sean Aylmer: COP26 at moment- 71 00:03:54,660 --> 00:03:56,619 Tanya Plibersek: Well, if you could call it that, Sean. 72 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,810 Sean Aylmer: Well, we don't quite have the roadmap, but we've got 73 00:03:59,810 --> 00:04:01,650 Sean Aylmer: the words that go around it shall we say that, 74 00:04:01,650 --> 00:04:05,000 Sean Aylmer: net zero by 2050. What's Labor's policy? 75 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,190 Tanya Plibersek: Well, we'll be making more detailed policy announcements in coming weeks, 76 00:04:09,190 --> 00:04:11,730 Tanya Plibersek: but we have had a commitment to net zero by 77 00:04:11,750 --> 00:04:14,780 Tanya Plibersek: 2050 for some time. And we've laid out a whole 78 00:04:14,780 --> 00:04:17,040 Tanya Plibersek: lot of practical measures that would help us achieve that. 79 00:04:17,370 --> 00:04:20,469 Tanya Plibersek: Like investing in our transmission lines, we know a need to 80 00:04:20,470 --> 00:04:23,500 Tanya Plibersek: upgrade transmission to cope with the new renewables that are 81 00:04:23,500 --> 00:04:27,740 Tanya Plibersek: coming into the grid, like investing in electric vehicles, making 82 00:04:27,740 --> 00:04:30,270 Tanya Plibersek: it cheaper for people who want to buy an electric 83 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,839 Tanya Plibersek: vehicle to get that electric vehicle, like making sure that 84 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,330 Tanya Plibersek: we've got the workforce, the renewables workforce by investing in 85 00:04:37,330 --> 00:04:41,469 Tanya Plibersek: apprenticeships for people who are going into that sector. We'll 86 00:04:41,470 --> 00:04:44,969 Tanya Plibersek: have more to say about our medium term targets in coming 87 00:04:44,970 --> 00:04:48,230 Tanya Plibersek: weeks and more to say about how we achieve them. I think it's 88 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:52,270 Tanya Plibersek: really worth noting that every state and territory signed up 89 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,420 Tanya Plibersek: to net zero by 2050, but the really big change 90 00:04:56,420 --> 00:04:59,080 Tanya Plibersek: that has happened in Australia in recent years, all of 91 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:04,920 Tanya Plibersek: our major businesses, National Farmers' Federation, Meat & Livestock Corporation, all 92 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,730 Tanya Plibersek: of them have been a step ahead of our federal government. 93 00:05:08,890 --> 00:05:13,100 Tanya Plibersek: And I think that's really important. It shows that this 94 00:05:13,100 --> 00:05:15,320 Tanya Plibersek: is not just an issue for Greenies. This is a 95 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,279 Tanya Plibersek: really mainstream issue now. There is a reason that one 96 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,980 Tanya Plibersek: in four Australian households has solar panels on the roof. 97 00:05:22,980 --> 00:05:26,930 Tanya Plibersek: They have worked out that you get cheaper electricity from 98 00:05:26,930 --> 00:05:30,779 Tanya Plibersek: solar power and we can power our economy and the 99 00:05:30,779 --> 00:05:34,419 Tanya Plibersek: jobs that come with it by investing in renewables and 100 00:05:34,420 --> 00:05:38,060 Tanya Plibersek: making use of them to get down bills in households, 101 00:05:38,060 --> 00:05:43,070 Tanya Plibersek: but also to get down electricity bills for businesses. We know 102 00:05:43,130 --> 00:05:46,730 Tanya Plibersek: that we can be a manufacturer again. Think about the 103 00:05:46,730 --> 00:05:50,810 Tanya Plibersek: huge cost of electricity for big businesses like retail, the 104 00:05:51,110 --> 00:05:55,089 Tanya Plibersek: power of bringing down those electricity prices to drive our 105 00:05:55,089 --> 00:05:56,610 Tanya Plibersek: economy is enormous. 106 00:05:56,830 --> 00:06:00,300 Sean Aylmer: Okay. I take all that, but notwithstanding you will provide 107 00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:03,620 Sean Aylmer: more details in coming weeks. It's still a technology style 108 00:06:03,620 --> 00:06:07,520 Sean Aylmer: solution as opposed to pricing carbon. Is that fair to say? 109 00:06:08,089 --> 00:06:11,850 Tanya Plibersek: Yeah, I think pricing carbon was the right policy at 110 00:06:11,850 --> 00:06:16,970 Tanya Plibersek: the beginning of this change process, which is now a 111 00:06:16,970 --> 00:06:17,359 Tanya Plibersek: decade and a half- 112 00:06:17,370 --> 00:06:18,150 Sean Aylmer: It's mainstream, as you say. 113 00:06:18,150 --> 00:06:22,230 Tanya Plibersek: ... or more. But in fact, we know that solar 114 00:06:22,230 --> 00:06:24,810 Tanya Plibersek: electricity is the cheapest form of electricity in human history. 115 00:06:25,130 --> 00:06:29,140 Tanya Plibersek: That price signal is not needed anymore. What we need 116 00:06:29,370 --> 00:06:35,539 Tanya Plibersek: is a framework that allows those renewables to get pumped 117 00:06:35,540 --> 00:06:38,859 Tanya Plibersek: into the grid and distributed to the homes and businesses as 118 00:06:38,860 --> 00:06:42,640 Tanya Plibersek: they need them in the most effective way. And Australia 119 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,670 Tanya Plibersek: just can be a world leader in this. The real 120 00:06:46,670 --> 00:06:51,130 Tanya Plibersek: frustration of the government not signing up to zero net 121 00:06:51,130 --> 00:06:55,760 Tanya Plibersek: emissions by 2050 or more ambitious medium term targets is 122 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:00,349 Tanya Plibersek: that it's a handbrake on our competitiveness in the world. Seriously, 123 00:07:00,350 --> 00:07:04,630 Tanya Plibersek: if we get green hydrogen right, if we can be 124 00:07:04,630 --> 00:07:09,910 Tanya Plibersek: manufacturing green steel, green aluminium, green cement, use green hydrogen 125 00:07:09,980 --> 00:07:15,620 Tanya Plibersek: for those really energy intensive industries like fertiliser manufacture, there 126 00:07:15,620 --> 00:07:18,710 Tanya Plibersek: will be demand for those products from the EU, from 127 00:07:18,710 --> 00:07:22,090 Tanya Plibersek: the US, from countries that have signed up to more 128 00:07:22,090 --> 00:07:26,500 Tanya Plibersek: ambitious targets than us. We could be meeting that niche. 129 00:07:26,550 --> 00:07:30,590 Tanya Plibersek: We could be growing Australian jobs and it is really 130 00:07:30,590 --> 00:07:36,350 Tanya Plibersek: frustrating that the conservatives keep portraying this as a cost, 131 00:07:36,610 --> 00:07:40,460 Tanya Plibersek: a sacrifice when it is such an opportunity if we 132 00:07:40,460 --> 00:07:41,420 Tanya Plibersek: can just grasp it. 133 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,430 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Tanya. We'll be back in a minute. 134 00:07:48,660 --> 00:07:52,810 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Labor frontbencher, Tanya Plibersek. Okay, let's move on to 135 00:07:52,890 --> 00:07:57,130 Sean Aylmer: tax policy. The last election, your tax policy didn't do 136 00:07:57,210 --> 00:08:00,450 Sean Aylmer: you any favours, amendments to negative gearing, franking credits, capital 137 00:08:00,450 --> 00:08:03,380 Sean Aylmer: gains tax. Now it appears that you have dropped most 138 00:08:03,380 --> 00:08:06,870 Sean Aylmer: of those issues or most of those suggestions since then. 139 00:08:07,220 --> 00:08:10,300 Sean Aylmer: Do you think you'll come out with a raft of 140 00:08:10,460 --> 00:08:14,190 Sean Aylmer: different tax policy or changes in tax policy in the lead up to the next election? 141 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:19,030 Tanya Plibersek: Well, we have dropped those policies and our support for 142 00:08:19,030 --> 00:08:22,400 Tanya Plibersek: stage three of the government's tax cuts is clear and 143 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:27,700 Tanya Plibersek: on the record. We'll have further things to say about 144 00:08:27,730 --> 00:08:32,750 Tanya Plibersek: how we design our tax policy in coming months as well, 145 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,319 Tanya Plibersek: but at the heart of the way we make our decisions, 146 00:08:36,380 --> 00:08:40,329 Tanya Plibersek: will always be what's fair. How do we make sure 147 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:45,900 Tanya Plibersek: that people on the lowest incomes benefit from the services 148 00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:49,410 Tanya Plibersek: they need and pay the lowest amount of tax that 149 00:08:49,410 --> 00:08:52,380 Tanya Plibersek: they need to for us to live in a civilised community. 150 00:08:52,850 --> 00:08:55,490 Tanya Plibersek: We also need to make sure this will always be 151 00:08:55,490 --> 00:08:59,510 Tanya Plibersek: a focus for Labor, that people are paying what they should be, 152 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,530 Tanya Plibersek: that people and companies, particularly at the upper end, we 153 00:09:02,530 --> 00:09:06,170 Tanya Plibersek: know that we continue to have a problem, for example, 154 00:09:06,220 --> 00:09:13,459 Tanya Plibersek: with large multinational companies using tax minimisation, arrangements routing their 155 00:09:13,500 --> 00:09:15,600 Tanya Plibersek: profits through other countries and so on. And I think 156 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,120 Tanya Plibersek: it's really important that we continue to work with the 157 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,960 Tanya Plibersek: global community to reduce opportunities for that sort of deliberate 158 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,750 Tanya Plibersek: policy to reduce the amount of tax that some of 159 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,520 Tanya Plibersek: our big multinational companies pay in Australia. 160 00:09:29,100 --> 00:09:32,090 Sean Aylmer: And getting onto your area specifically, how do we kickstart 161 00:09:32,090 --> 00:09:36,250 Sean Aylmer: the education sector in Australia, particularly the tertiary education system given 162 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,490 Sean Aylmer: the lack of international students, and even if we open 163 00:09:39,490 --> 00:09:42,820 Sean Aylmer: the borders, it will take time to get things going. 164 00:09:43,020 --> 00:09:45,250 Sean Aylmer: Media reports suggest that Canada has really taken a lot 165 00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:48,160 Sean Aylmer: of Australian students. And then this all flows back down 166 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,750 Sean Aylmer: through to high schools and primary schools. It really is 167 00:09:51,750 --> 00:09:53,569 Sean Aylmer: a sector that's struggling. 168 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:59,340 Tanya Plibersek: Education has been incredibly hard hit during the pandemic and particularly, 169 00:09:59,340 --> 00:10:03,130 Tanya Plibersek: as you say, universities. We've got a sector that is 170 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,200 Tanya Plibersek: the largest ... well, was before the pandemic, the largest services 171 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:12,069 Tanya Plibersek: export that Australia has. It's the fourth largest export in 172 00:10:12,309 --> 00:10:17,020 Tanya Plibersek: dollar terms that Australia has. Out of 200,000 staff, a round 173 00:10:17,020 --> 00:10:21,110 Tanya Plibersek: about 200,000 staff employed in the sector, 40, 000 have 174 00:10:21,110 --> 00:10:24,090 Tanya Plibersek: lost their jobs. I think if any other sector had 175 00:10:24,090 --> 00:10:26,410 Tanya Plibersek: been as hard hit as this, the government would've been 176 00:10:26,410 --> 00:10:30,450 Tanya Plibersek: there with assistance, instead they changed the JobKeeper arrangements three 177 00:10:30,470 --> 00:10:34,950 Tanya Plibersek: times to deliberately exclude our public universities from being able 178 00:10:34,950 --> 00:10:38,350 Tanya Plibersek: to receive job keep. Now those 40,000 jobs are all over 179 00:10:38,350 --> 00:10:41,730 Tanya Plibersek: the country. So you take, for example, 300 jobs out 180 00:10:41,730 --> 00:10:45,920 Tanya Plibersek: of Rockhampton that has a big impact on regional communities 181 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,870 Tanya Plibersek: that this government is in complete denial about, but the effect 182 00:10:49,870 --> 00:10:53,340 Tanya Plibersek: of those job losses isn't just a problem for the 183 00:10:53,340 --> 00:10:57,080 Tanya Plibersek: students that miss out on the teaching that those people 184 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,460 Tanya Plibersek: would provide. It's also a problem for our future productivity. 185 00:11:00,460 --> 00:11:04,959 Tanya Plibersek: We have lost 7, 000 researchers. Where are we going 186 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,730 Tanya Plibersek: to get the discoveries, the innovations, the inventions that will 187 00:11:08,740 --> 00:11:13,780 Tanya Plibersek: be the products and the companies and the employers of 188 00:11:13,780 --> 00:11:16,210 Tanya Plibersek: Australians in the future? When we take that sort of 189 00:11:16,210 --> 00:11:20,740 Tanya Plibersek: brain power out of our economy, that has a decades 190 00:11:20,740 --> 00:11:24,960 Tanya Plibersek: -long impact. So we've got a real problem with many 191 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,850 Tanya Plibersek: more students applying for a university place than there's room for. 192 00:11:28,850 --> 00:11:31,960 Tanya Plibersek: So we've got increasing numbers of students being turned away. 193 00:11:32,330 --> 00:11:35,270 Tanya Plibersek: We've got thousands of students for whom the cost of 194 00:11:35,270 --> 00:11:38,809 Tanya Plibersek: a degree has doubled under this government. We've got the 195 00:11:38,809 --> 00:11:43,410 Tanya Plibersek: brain drain with the job losses. We need to turn 196 00:11:43,410 --> 00:11:47,550 Tanya Plibersek: this around for Australia to be a rich and successful 197 00:11:47,550 --> 00:11:50,790 Tanya Plibersek: and productive country. We want wages to go up. We 198 00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:53,510 Tanya Plibersek: want wages to go up because Australians are more productive 199 00:11:53,510 --> 00:11:57,390 Tanya Plibersek: at work and the university role in that is absolutely critical. 200 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,880 Tanya Plibersek: We see the same in schools and childcare. We need to 201 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,290 Tanya Plibersek: invest for the future. We know that a dollar spent 202 00:12:04,330 --> 00:12:06,420 Tanya Plibersek: when a child is three years old or four years 203 00:12:06,420 --> 00:12:09,490 Tanya Plibersek: old can have a lifelong impact for that child. 204 00:12:10,130 --> 00:12:12,760 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Moving out of policy, one thing about the pandemic, 205 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,350 Sean Aylmer: which I've really enjoyed is the fact that bipartisanship really out 206 00:12:16,350 --> 00:12:21,540 Sean Aylmer: of Canberra around the health needs primarily, now as it 207 00:12:21,540 --> 00:12:24,300 Sean Aylmer: went on the states and Canberra perhaps didn't agree quite 208 00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:27,390 Sean Aylmer: as much, but I think both the Coalition and Labor 209 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,880 Sean Aylmer: worked really well together and it showed the benefits of that. 210 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,120 Sean Aylmer: I think some of the foreign relations things, perhaps not 211 00:12:33,220 --> 00:12:37,410 Sean Aylmer: Emmanuel Macron and Scott Morrison's recent discussions together, but generally 212 00:12:37,830 --> 00:12:40,940 Sean Aylmer: Labor and the Coalition have worked reasonably well. Don't you 213 00:12:40,940 --> 00:12:44,700 Sean Aylmer: think people really like that bipartisanship with really big picture 214 00:12:45,059 --> 00:12:49,110 Sean Aylmer: issues like defence, like the pandemic, don't you think Australians 215 00:12:49,230 --> 00:12:53,350 Sean Aylmer: like the fact that politicians negotiate and work together to 216 00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:54,170 Sean Aylmer: a common outcome? 217 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,640 Tanya Plibersek: I think you're dead right. I think it's the only 218 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,090 Tanya Plibersek: way forward on large and complex issues. Certainly, during a 219 00:13:01,090 --> 00:13:04,920 Tanya Plibersek: time like the pandemic, there's no way that Labor would've 220 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,070 Tanya Plibersek: just been difficult and obstructionist because lives are at stake. 221 00:13:08,630 --> 00:13:12,449 Tanya Plibersek: It's responsible to try and cooperate and help the government 222 00:13:12,450 --> 00:13:15,340 Tanya Plibersek: in any way we can during a time like that. 223 00:13:15,340 --> 00:13:19,010 Tanya Plibersek: It's like the second world war, a nation comes together 224 00:13:19,300 --> 00:13:23,260 Tanya Plibersek: to have a common goal. I think it is still 225 00:13:23,260 --> 00:13:28,620 Tanya Plibersek: important that if the government's getting something wrong, people sensibly 226 00:13:28,620 --> 00:13:32,730 Tanya Plibersek: and responsibly raise those issues. And I think the slow vaccine 227 00:13:32,730 --> 00:13:35,250 Tanya Plibersek: rollout is a really good example of that. We could 228 00:13:35,250 --> 00:13:38,300 Tanya Plibersek: have done better as a nation if we'd had more 229 00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:41,790 Tanya Plibersek: deals earlier to get more jabs in more people's arms. 230 00:13:43,050 --> 00:13:45,400 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And finally, Tanya, how do you do it? Who does the 231 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,330 Sean Aylmer: washing at your place? Now, your partner has a very 232 00:13:49,330 --> 00:13:52,650 Sean Aylmer: big job. You obviously have an extremely high profile big 233 00:13:52,650 --> 00:13:54,760 Sean Aylmer: job. You've got kids. Who does do the washing? 234 00:13:55,270 --> 00:13:57,990 Tanya Plibersek: Mostly me, mostly me. 235 00:13:58,190 --> 00:13:58,590 Sean Aylmer: How do you manage it? 236 00:13:58,900 --> 00:14:01,390 Tanya Plibersek: But I'll tell you this. When I walk out the 237 00:14:01,390 --> 00:14:03,760 Tanya Plibersek: door if I'm going to Canberra, I don't have to 238 00:14:04,570 --> 00:14:07,449 Tanya Plibersek: leave my husband a set of instructions. He is such 239 00:14:07,450 --> 00:14:12,130 Tanya Plibersek: a fantastic parent and such a supportive partner. And we 240 00:14:12,130 --> 00:14:14,460 Tanya Plibersek: do things together. We work out who needs to do 241 00:14:14,460 --> 00:14:17,690 Tanya Plibersek: what. People often ask this question. The truth is we're 242 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,070 Tanya Plibersek: luckier than most. And the people I really worry about 243 00:14:21,130 --> 00:14:24,510 Tanya Plibersek: in Australia today are not busy people with well paid 244 00:14:24,510 --> 00:14:28,640 Tanya Plibersek: jobs, but people in insecure employment, people who are delivery 245 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,710 Tanya Plibersek: riders working for 10 bucks an hour or picking blueberries 246 00:14:31,710 --> 00:14:34,720 Tanya Plibersek: for $3 an hour who don't know where their next paycheck's 247 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,340 Tanya Plibersek: coming from. They're the ones I ask how are they 248 00:14:37,340 --> 00:14:37,810 Tanya Plibersek: doing it. 249 00:14:38,170 --> 00:14:40,940 Sean Aylmer: I think that's a fair comment, but I still admire 250 00:14:40,940 --> 00:14:43,450 Sean Aylmer: the fact that ... and you do have kids and all that. 251 00:14:43,450 --> 00:14:47,250 Sean Aylmer: It's a huge responsibility. For example, I think there'd be 252 00:14:47,290 --> 00:14:52,640 Sean Aylmer: more women in corporate Australia and politics if we actually 253 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,380 Sean Aylmer: made it easier for all people, men and women, to 254 00:14:56,380 --> 00:15:00,000 Sean Aylmer: partake in those particular roles and places and things like that. 255 00:15:00,590 --> 00:15:04,770 Tanya Plibersek: Well, women would be better paid and have better career 256 00:15:04,770 --> 00:15:07,810 Tanya Plibersek: paths if men did more at home in general. That 257 00:15:07,810 --> 00:15:11,160 Tanya Plibersek: is absolutely for sure. And I think the best way 258 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:12,930 Tanya Plibersek: to manage is just to bite off more than you 259 00:15:12,930 --> 00:15:15,820 Tanya Plibersek: can chew and chew furiously. What's that expression? 260 00:15:17,740 --> 00:15:18,000 Sean Aylmer: You’ve done well then. 261 00:15:18,070 --> 00:15:20,340 Tanya Plibersek: I don't know. If I'd had any sense when I was first 262 00:15:20,340 --> 00:15:23,001 Tanya Plibersek: signing up for this wild ride, perhaps I would not have done it! But, you know... 263 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:23,859 Sean Aylmer: Fair enough. 264 00:15:24,190 --> 00:15:26,080 Tanya Plibersek: Just dive in. Just dive in is my advice. 265 00:15:26,390 --> 00:15:28,410 Sean Aylmer: Tanya, thank you very much for talking to Fear and Greed. 266 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:29,390 Tanya Plibersek: Thanks, Sean. 267 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,670 Sean Aylmer: That was Labor frontbencher Tanya Plibersek. This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. 268 00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:35,880 Sean Aylmer: Join me every morning for the full Fear and Greed 269 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,320 Sean Aylmer: podcast with all the business news you need to know. 270 00:15:38,580 --> 00:15:40,250 Sean Aylmer: I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.