WEBVTT - Pure, cold rage: are politicians exploiting white teen’s murder? 

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, June five, twenty twenty six. The budget's controversial

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<v Speaker 1>tax reforms were necessary to stop Australia sliding into the

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<v Speaker 1>kind of social dislocation happening overseas. That's what Anthony Albanesi

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<v Speaker 1>will tell today's Australia's Economic Outlook Forum in Sydney. You

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<v Speaker 1>can watch all the power players live on Sky News

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<v Speaker 1>and the Australian dot com dot a U. An eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>year old white boy was treated by police as a

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<v Speaker 1>racist and a liar as he lay dying from stab

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<v Speaker 1>wounds on a Southampton street, his cries of I can't

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<v Speaker 1>breathe ignored. Across Britain, communities have reacted to body worn

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<v Speaker 1>footage of Henry Novak's last moments with grief and fury,

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<v Speaker 1>and as politicians seek to voice and exploit Britain's outrage.

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<v Speaker 1>Jacqueline Magne joins US from London. Jacqueline Magnee is The

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<v Speaker 1>Australian's europe correspondent and she's covering a story that has

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely gripped Britain and the world. It's the murder of

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<v Speaker 1>an eighteen year old boy Henry Novak and the fallout

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<v Speaker 1>after that. Jack tell me who was Henry Novak and

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<v Speaker 1>what happened to him?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Henry Novak was an accounting student, had just started

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<v Speaker 2>at University of Southampton and he just finished his first

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<v Speaker 2>term and was celebrating that with some of his football mates.

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<v Speaker 2>He dressed up in a lovely crisp white shirt and

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<v Speaker 2>a tie and went and met them at a pub

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<v Speaker 2>at a nearby pub in Southampton. He was not a

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<v Speaker 2>heavy drinker. He had a few drinks. They went to

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<v Speaker 2>two different pubs and then he walked home just after

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<v Speaker 2>eleven o'clock at night. As he was walking home, he

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<v Speaker 2>was singing and sending messages on Snapchat to his friends.

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<v Speaker 2>So he was in a great mood, having a jovial time.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was there that he was heading back to

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<v Speaker 2>his residences at the university where he encountered a man

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<v Speaker 2>who was wearing quite a large knife around his midriff,

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<v Speaker 2>a Sikh man wearing a turban. He saw this man

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<v Speaker 2>and he said to him, you were bad man, in

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<v Speaker 2>reference to him wearing this very large knife. The two

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<v Speaker 2>then had a bit of a discussion about the bad

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<v Speaker 2>man and then the audio recording finishes, and it's at

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<v Speaker 2>that point that he was stabbed at least five times,

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<v Speaker 2>twice in the chest, twice in the legs, once in

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<v Speaker 2>the groin, and also had facial lacerations and some defense wounds.

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<v Speaker 2>So he was attacked, he tried to get away. He

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<v Speaker 2>clambered onto quite a large bin nearby, and then he

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<v Speaker 2>also tried to get over a fence and this was

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<v Speaker 2>recorded on mobile phone footage of the sick Maam called

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<v Speaker 2>Vikram Digua. He was recording this as Henry was trying

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<v Speaker 2>to escape. Of course, Henry with his injuries, couldn't get

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<v Speaker 2>very far at all. And then there's a series of

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<v Speaker 2>phone calls that were made by Digua, who rang his

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<v Speaker 2>brother who lived just around the corner and his father,

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<v Speaker 2>and then they turned up. At that point, Digwa claimed

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<v Speaker 2>to his family that he'd been racially abused, and so

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<v Speaker 2>the brother rang the police and told them that this

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<v Speaker 2>white man had been abusing his brother and had attacked

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<v Speaker 2>his brother. And that's when the police arrived soon after,

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<v Speaker 2>and they didn't believe Henry Novak about his injuries.

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<v Speaker 3>Stuff to whereabouts.

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<v Speaker 2>He repeatedly told them he'd been stabbed. He repeatedly told

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<v Speaker 2>them he couldn't breathe, and yet they persisted in handcuffing him,

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<v Speaker 2>dragging him along the ground, and disbelieving him about the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that he had been stabbed.

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<v Speaker 1>It's incredibly distressing footage to see Henry Novak dying as

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<v Speaker 1>the police disbelieve his claim that he's been stabbed.

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<v Speaker 2>In the face. But we have to check in the face.

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<v Speaker 3>His pupils aren't even reacting.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there a feeling in Britain that the officers were

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<v Speaker 1>treating him differently because he was white?

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and there are certain things here that we can see.

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<v Speaker 2>He was handcuffed for a start, even though he posed

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<v Speaker 2>no resistance whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 3>What's your name, mate, By the moment you are underrest,

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<v Speaker 3>that's results. You don't have to say if they mayhamed defence,

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<v Speaker 3>if you do not make your own question later trilin

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<v Speaker 3>or anything you do say maybe given an evidence, all right,

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<v Speaker 3>it's going to be sick. I think.

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<v Speaker 2>That he was disbelieved and there didn't seem at the

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<v Speaker 2>very outset to be any attempt to check whether he

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<v Speaker 2>did have any injuries. Later, of course they did check,

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<v Speaker 2>but it goes to the heart of the police in

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<v Speaker 2>Britain have had many instances where they've been accused of

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<v Speaker 2>two tier policing, of treating people of a different race

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<v Speaker 2>in a different manner, and so when this has occurred

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<v Speaker 2>in such a visual and distressing way, people readily identify

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<v Speaker 2>that this was a case of two tier policing. They

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<v Speaker 2>don't believe the police when they say that if the

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<v Speaker 2>situation was reversed it would have been treated any differently.

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<v Speaker 2>They definitely don't believe that. So the police can say

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<v Speaker 2>there is no two tier policing, but the fact is

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<v Speaker 2>no one in Britain believes them.

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<v Speaker 1>When he was dying, Henry Novak was saying, I can't breathe. That,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, is the phrase made famous in the murder

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<v Speaker 1>of George Floyd, the American man who died in the

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<v Speaker 1>custody of police, triggering the global movement Black Lives Matter.

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<v Speaker 4>Defying lockdown measures or foregoing government's advice. Still, they came

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<v Speaker 4>in the hundreds of thousands called in for an ends

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<v Speaker 4>to police brutality and institutional racism.

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<v Speaker 1>Black Lives Matter had a big impact in Britain as well,

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<v Speaker 1>and politicians now, particularly Kemmy Badanock and perhaps also Nigel

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<v Speaker 1>Farage are saying that the Black Lives Matter movement kind

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<v Speaker 1>of reshape policing in Britain and made it go too far.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about that, Jack.

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<v Speaker 2>It's written down in black and white. It's not just

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<v Speaker 2>a nebulous concept. With the National Police Chiefs Council, they

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<v Speaker 2>have as official guidance that policing is not color blind,

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<v Speaker 2>that they are to treat different racial communities in different

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<v Speaker 2>ways and to be conscious of various different cultural norms.

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<v Speaker 2>And we can see this in the fact that the

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<v Speaker 2>Sikhs are allowed to wear knives around the community, where

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<v Speaker 2>other people would be arrested for such a thing. And

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<v Speaker 2>so you've got different races and different ethnicities being treated

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<v Speaker 2>in a different way by policing. And you've also got

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<v Speaker 2>the police being trained about unconscious bias about being white.

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<v Speaker 2>You are racist if you are white. There is a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of backlash going on now and introspection about all

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<v Speaker 2>the documentation about all the training that police officers have

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<v Speaker 2>to go through that people fear that they're being brainwashed,

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<v Speaker 2>that they can't go to a crime scene and objectively

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<v Speaker 2>look at it and assess it for what is in

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<v Speaker 2>front of them. Instead, they're worried about being accused of

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<v Speaker 2>being racist if they don't treat any of the perpetrators

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<v Speaker 2>or any of the victims in what is seen to

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<v Speaker 2>be in an appropriate way.

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<v Speaker 1>He is Hampshire Police's Chief Constable Alexis Boone.

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<v Speaker 5>It's difficult footage to watch and I really feel for

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<v Speaker 5>the family of Henry at this time, and I understand

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<v Speaker 5>their point of view and why they're upset with the police.

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<v Speaker 5>I understand that, and we get that we are saying

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<v Speaker 5>sorry for handcuffing and arresting Henry. Were genuinely saying that.

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<v Speaker 5>And you know, I hope the conviction of the killer

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<v Speaker 5>in court is at least some know, some comfort to

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<v Speaker 5>the family.

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<v Speaker 1>You wrote a great piece for The Australian in recent days, Jack,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of drawing together all the threads of examples of

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<v Speaker 1>police misconduct or policy which have made Britain's feel that

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<v Speaker 1>they've lost faith in law enforcement. The murder and rape

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<v Speaker 1>of Sarah Everard, the heavy handed police response to women

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<v Speaker 1>who were grieving her death after she was murdered by

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<v Speaker 1>a serving police officer.

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<v Speaker 6>A vigil turns violent sirens and screaming as the memorial

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<v Speaker 6>for a woman allegedly murdered by a policeman is disrupted

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<v Speaker 6>by the police.

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<v Speaker 1>Other incidents where police seemed to have failed to properly

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<v Speaker 1>pursue matters where there was racial sensitivity. And one of

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<v Speaker 1>the things you raised was this idea of nonviolent hate

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<v Speaker 1>crimes which have been prosecuted by British police. What is

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<v Speaker 1>a nonviolent hate crime and why has that contributed to

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<v Speaker 1>this sense of police misconduct.

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<v Speaker 2>A nonviolent hate crime is a perceived crime. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>complaint by somebody about another person that they feel aggrieved,

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<v Speaker 2>and so the police are drawn into minor trivial matters

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<v Speaker 2>such as an online tweet or a complaint being made

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<v Speaker 2>to a school about a parent, or a complaint being

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<v Speaker 2>made to a school about a teacher and their behavior.

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<v Speaker 2>Suddenly the police are called in because they're being accused

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<v Speaker 2>of a hate crime against somebody. Now this is actually

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<v Speaker 2>being phased out, and certainly the parameters for it being

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<v Speaker 2>a hate crime have ratcheted up because it was so

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<v Speaker 2>ridiculous where you would have five or six officers arriving

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<v Speaker 2>at the front door of an elderly person's house because

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<v Speaker 2>they'd responded to a Facebook post with a like or something,

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<v Speaker 2>and someone has taken offense at that, so it really

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<v Speaker 2>caused a lot of miste us in the police that

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't have the priorities right when people's burglaries and

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<v Speaker 2>normal everyday crime where mobile phone theft is out of

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<v Speaker 2>control in this country and it wasn't being addressed, and

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<v Speaker 2>so there is a lot of distrust about the priorities

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<v Speaker 2>of the police that they're too scared to actually go

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<v Speaker 2>after the real criminals and instead sit behind a desk

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<v Speaker 2>and look at what is the easy way out here

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<v Speaker 2>to get their numbers up, and let's just look at

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<v Speaker 2>a complaint about somebody saying a few hurdy words. So

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<v Speaker 2>that's been happening over the last few years and there

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<v Speaker 2>has been a real backlash against it because the community

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<v Speaker 2>feels that it's really inappropriate to have the police stepping

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<v Speaker 2>in and involving themselves in these kind of matters, especially

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<v Speaker 2>when real crime is just being let go.

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<v Speaker 1>The politician who seems to have been able most articulately

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<v Speaker 1>to respond to the Henry Novak murder is Nigel Farage.

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<v Speaker 1>He's spoken very clearly about why Britain is very angry

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<v Speaker 1>about this kind of policing.

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<v Speaker 7>Henry's family have responded to this in just the most

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<v Speaker 7>extraordinarily dignified way. But I suggest the rest of us

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<v Speaker 7>respond to this with pure cold rage. This is wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Kimmy Badnock from the Conservative Party has also been very

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<v Speaker 1>articulate on it.

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<v Speaker 8>The circumstances around Henry's wrongful arrest and tragic murder must

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<v Speaker 8>be a wake up call to the entire country and

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<v Speaker 8>our institutions that every life matters and it is the

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<v Speaker 8>responsibility of everyone in this house to bring people together,

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<v Speaker 8>not divide them.

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<v Speaker 1>Keith stalmart who is himself a former Crown prosecutor, has

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<v Speaker 1>seemed emotionally empathetic, but perhaps a little flat footed. Jack.

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<v Speaker 9>This is a time for serious work, not rage. And

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<v Speaker 9>let me be clear, we will or anyone found engaging

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<v Speaker 9>in disorder meets the full force of the law, as

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<v Speaker 9>we have done before.

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<v Speaker 1>What's your assessment of how this is playing out in politics?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think this has been weaponized by politicians for

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<v Speaker 1>their own purposes and where will it actually take us.

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<v Speaker 2>It's absolutely being reapgnized by everybody. But it's interesting how

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<v Speaker 2>Nigel Farage got on the front foot very quickly and

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<v Speaker 2>really touched on the public mood and the public anger,

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<v Speaker 2>and he spoke about this having a pure cold rage

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<v Speaker 2>about what had gone on.

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<v Speaker 1>Protesters clashed with officers amid massive anger at Hamish's police

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<v Speaker 1>handling of the case.

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<v Speaker 2>Now that's been picked up by other politicians who've accused

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<v Speaker 2>him of inciting violence, and Keir Starmer today even said

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<v Speaker 2>that it was unforgivable for Nigel Fera to be using

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<v Speaker 2>such words, accusing him of inciting racial division. Most people

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<v Speaker 2>in the street don't believe Kis Starmer. He has really

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't have any authority anymore. He's lost the room. And

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<v Speaker 2>so you have Kemi Badenknock now saying everybody's lives matter,

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<v Speaker 2>you have Nigel Farrage saying white lives matter, and then

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<v Speaker 2>you have Kis Starmer basically trying to obfuscate and change

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<v Speaker 2>the direction of the debate in saying we shouldn't be

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<v Speaker 2>talking about this because the family don't want us to

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<v Speaker 2>cause divisions, and so by hiding behind the family, Kiirs

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<v Speaker 2>Starmer has kicked another wrong goal there. He's not reading

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<v Speaker 2>the room. But people really don't believe what he says

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<v Speaker 2>anyway anymore. So it's really coming down to Nigel Farrage

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<v Speaker 2>about Kemmy Badennock's response and what the police doing about this,

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<v Speaker 2>and they are actually doing a review of their policing

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<v Speaker 2>recommendations about this and working out whether that wording needs

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<v Speaker 2>to be changed, about the whole issue of racism and

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<v Speaker 2>treating different races differently, whether the policing is color blind

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<v Speaker 2>or not. So there are changes foot behind the scenes,

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<v Speaker 2>but politically the debate is becoming a bit messy.

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<v Speaker 1>Jack, just finally, you're a Londoner. You've lived in Britain

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<v Speaker 1>for a long time, You've been reporting for The Australian

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<v Speaker 1>for a long time on all aspects of British society.

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<v Speaker 1>It all seems so bleak from here. It seems very dark,

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<v Speaker 1>as labor kind of stumbles its way around, reform zooms

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<v Speaker 1>up in the polls and thrashes the government at council elections.

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<v Speaker 1>The Conservatives seem to be lost. Can you give me

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<v Speaker 1>a ray of light about Britain? Is there something in

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<v Speaker 1>Britain right now that's making people happy and lifting the

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<v Speaker 1>mood or do you feel it is more bleak?

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<v Speaker 2>It is bleak, but the sun has been shining lately

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<v Speaker 2>and it's been lovely and warm, and we've had a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit of rain to keep the plants happy.

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<v Speaker 1>So I guess we've got Wimbledon to look forward to

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<v Speaker 1>do well exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>The tennis season's coming up, some is coming up, Pims

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<v Speaker 2>at Wimbledon. What more could you ask for?

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks Jack. That makes me feel a little bit better.

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<v Speaker 7>Thanks.

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<v Speaker 1>Jacqueline Magnee is The Australian's europe correspondent. You can read

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<v Speaker 1>all her reporting and analysis from the UK and beyond

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<v Speaker 1>right now at the Australian dot com dot au