1 00:00:03,990 --> 00:00:07,530 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. You 2 00:00:07,530 --> 00:00:10,619 Sean Aylmer: might be familiar with my guest today. Georgie Dent is 3 00:00:10,619 --> 00:00:13,950 Sean Aylmer: journalist, a keynote speaker, and the author of the 2019 4 00:00:13,950 --> 00:00:17,760 Sean Aylmer: book, Breaking Badly. She's also the Executive Director of The 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,600 Sean Aylmer: Parenthood, an advocacy group that wants to see Australia become 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,460 Sean Aylmer: the best place in the world to be a parent. 7 00:00:23,820 --> 00:00:26,610 Sean Aylmer: But for that to happen, changes are needed from family- 8 00:00:26,610 --> 00:00:30,960 Sean Aylmer: friendly working conditions to better childcare and early education. Georgie 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,339 Sean Aylmer: Dent, welcome to Fear and Greed. 10 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:33,690 Georgie Dent: Thank you for having me. 11 00:00:34,260 --> 00:00:38,040 Sean Aylmer: A simple question upfront, what's the biggest challenge for parents 12 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:39,090 Sean Aylmer: in the workplace, Georgie? 13 00:00:39,990 --> 00:00:42,540 Georgie Dent: There is no doubt that for parents in Australia, the 14 00:00:42,540 --> 00:00:48,120 Georgie Dent: biggest challenge is being able to combine their caring responsibilities 15 00:00:48,450 --> 00:00:52,019 Georgie Dent: with their need to be able to financially provide for 16 00:00:52,020 --> 00:00:55,770 Georgie Dent: their family. So just simply being able to make those 17 00:00:55,770 --> 00:00:59,760 Georgie Dent: two pieces of the puzzle work together is extraordinarily difficult. 18 00:01:00,870 --> 00:01:05,220 Sean Aylmer: How does Australia rate compare to others? Are we improving 19 00:01:05,430 --> 00:01:08,670 Sean Aylmer: the ability for individuals? And I presume mostly it's about 20 00:01:08,670 --> 00:01:12,150 Sean Aylmer: primary caregivers and the primary caregiver often is a woman. 21 00:01:12,660 --> 00:01:15,120 Sean Aylmer: Is it fair to say we're making improvements in that 22 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:15,929 Sean Aylmer: area or not? 23 00:01:16,590 --> 00:01:20,610 Georgie Dent: The unfortunate reality is Australia lags the world in the 24 00:01:20,610 --> 00:01:26,070 Georgie Dent: provision of evidence- based policies that we know support children, 25 00:01:26,430 --> 00:01:30,780 Georgie Dent: but also particularly support mothers in their ability to combine 26 00:01:30,870 --> 00:01:35,370 Georgie Dent: their caring responsibilities with paid work. So Australia has got 27 00:01:35,850 --> 00:01:39,510 Georgie Dent: the second least adequate paid parental leave scheme in the 28 00:01:39,510 --> 00:01:42,720 Georgie Dent: OECD. So America is the only country that has got 29 00:01:43,020 --> 00:01:46,620 Georgie Dent: a less generous paid parental leave scheme than we have. 30 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,610 Georgie Dent: So in the OECD, the average length of paid parental 31 00:01:50,610 --> 00:01:54,780 Georgie Dent: leave that families have access to is 53 weeks. Now 32 00:01:54,780 --> 00:01:58,890 Georgie Dent: in Australia, we've got 18 weeks for the primary carer, 33 00:01:58,890 --> 00:02:02,160 Georgie Dent: and we've got two weeks for the dad and secondary 34 00:02:02,190 --> 00:02:05,070 Georgie Dent: partner. Now, we have had a commitment from the Labor 35 00:02:05,070 --> 00:02:08,370 Georgie Dent: Government, the Albanese Government, to move to 26 weeks by 36 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,450 Georgie Dent: 2026, and that is incredibly welcomed because for a decade 37 00:02:12,450 --> 00:02:16,290 Georgie Dent: we saw absolutely no progress. But even moving to 26 38 00:02:16,290 --> 00:02:19,680 Georgie Dent: weeks would put Australia still towards the back of the 39 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,380 Georgie Dent: pack when it comes to developed countries. 40 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,560 Sean Aylmer: What's the opportunity cost, Georgie? What are we missing out 41 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:26,520 Sean Aylmer: on if we don't do it? 42 00:02:28,050 --> 00:02:33,240 Georgie Dent: The opportunity cost is extraordinary. So aside from the fact 43 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,660 Georgie Dent: that we've got inadequate paid parental leave, we've also got 44 00:02:36,660 --> 00:02:39,959 Georgie Dent: some of the most expensive early childhood education and care 45 00:02:40,500 --> 00:02:44,250 Georgie Dent: in the world. We know that the cost of childcare 46 00:02:44,250 --> 00:02:47,610 Georgie Dent: is so high that it acts as a deterrent even 47 00:02:47,610 --> 00:02:51,510 Georgie Dent: before a baby is necessarily conceived, when couples are even 48 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,560 Georgie Dent: thinking about planning their family. In Australia they've already built 49 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,870 Georgie Dent: into their planning that the cost of care is so 50 00:02:57,870 --> 00:03:01,440 Georgie Dent: high that two parents working doesn't make sense. And so 51 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,619 Georgie Dent: we have a situation where despite being a world leader 52 00:03:04,650 --> 00:03:09,060 Georgie Dent: in educating girls and women, we are a global laggard 53 00:03:09,060 --> 00:03:13,230 Georgie Dent: when it comes to women's workforce participation. And the reason 54 00:03:13,230 --> 00:03:17,250 Georgie Dent: for this is because we haven't invested in the infrastructure 55 00:03:17,310 --> 00:03:21,269 Georgie Dent: that enables women in particular, women with children to participate 56 00:03:21,270 --> 00:03:24,899 Georgie Dent: in paid work. And why that matters is twofold. So 57 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,490 Georgie Dent: for our productivity as a nation, the biggest opportunity we 58 00:03:29,490 --> 00:03:34,260 Georgie Dent: have is tapping into women. That was a clear theme 59 00:03:34,260 --> 00:03:36,780 Georgie Dent: at the Jobs and Skills Summit last year. The Economist 60 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,990 Georgie Dent: and Chief Executive of the Grattan Institute, Danielle Wood, in 61 00:03:39,990 --> 00:03:46,440 Georgie Dent: her speech said, quite memorably, that if untapped women's workforce 62 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:51,090 Georgie Dent: participation was a giant iron ore deposit, we would be 63 00:03:51,090 --> 00:03:53,970 Georgie Dent: spending every single dollar we have and many dollars that 64 00:03:53,970 --> 00:03:55,830 Georgie Dent: we don't have to get it out of the ground. 65 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,470 Georgie Dent: We haven't made that investment. And what that means is 66 00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:03,119 Georgie Dent: our national productivity is significantly hampered, but it also means 67 00:04:03,450 --> 00:04:07,620 Georgie Dent: for individual women, it is incredibly difficult to develop and 68 00:04:07,620 --> 00:04:12,060 Georgie Dent: attain financial security. And if you don't have financial security, 69 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,660 Georgie Dent: you don't have any security. Your choices are directly linked 70 00:04:15,660 --> 00:04:18,089 Georgie Dent: to the financial means that you have in lots of 71 00:04:18,089 --> 00:04:23,850 Georgie Dent: cases. And so the opportunity cost in economic and social 72 00:04:23,850 --> 00:04:27,210 Georgie Dent: terms for women is huge. But the other thing that 73 00:04:27,210 --> 00:04:30,539 Georgie Dent: is less known is the extent to which Australia is 74 00:04:30,540 --> 00:04:36,779 Georgie Dent: letting down children. Now, in a recent UNICEF report, Australia 75 00:04:36,779 --> 00:04:42,180 Georgie Dent: ranked 32nd out of 38 wealthy countries when it comes 76 00:04:42,180 --> 00:04:45,960 Georgie Dent: to the wellbeing of children. And the report specifically called 77 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,670 Georgie Dent: out that we are failing to consistently provide good health, 78 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:56,220 Georgie Dent: educational, and mental health outcomes for children. We know that 79 00:04:56,610 --> 00:04:59,909 Georgie Dent: at the moment we spend at least $ 15 billion a 80 00:04:59,910 --> 00:05:03,599 Georgie Dent: year on late intervention. So that is money that we 81 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,920 Georgie Dent: would save if we were ensuring that children had access 82 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:14,040 Georgie Dent: from birth to the early childhood development, education and care opportunities 83 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,360 Georgie Dent: they need to thrive. 84 00:05:15,810 --> 00:05:18,030 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Georgie. We'll be back in a minute. 85 00:05:24,210 --> 00:05:27,359 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Georgie Dent, Executive Director of 86 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,130 Sean Aylmer: The Parenthood. Just explain that. So the early intervention, and Georgie, 87 00:05:32,130 --> 00:05:33,870 Sean Aylmer: I know you have worked with my partner, Jackie, on 88 00:05:33,870 --> 00:05:38,100 Sean Aylmer: this process over a long time. Why is early intervention 89 00:05:38,100 --> 00:05:38,850 Sean Aylmer: so important? 90 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:45,030 Georgie Dent: So between zero and five, 90% of brain development occurs. 91 00:05:45,089 --> 00:05:49,529 Georgie Dent: So we have got this richly formative window of time 92 00:05:49,589 --> 00:05:52,620 Georgie Dent: where so much of a little person's brain is developed 93 00:05:52,620 --> 00:05:55,469 Georgie Dent: and in a lot of ways it sets the trajectory 94 00:05:55,470 --> 00:06:00,720 Georgie Dent: for life. So when we talk about early intervention, the 95 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,500 Georgie Dent: evidence is really clear that when children are seen by 96 00:06:04,500 --> 00:06:08,670 Georgie Dent: early childhood professionals, and whether that is speech therapists or 97 00:06:08,670 --> 00:06:11,640 Georgie Dent: OTs, whether it's their GP, whether it's the maternal health 98 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:16,950 Georgie Dent: nurse, whether it's their early educator, children having access to 99 00:06:16,980 --> 00:06:22,679 Georgie Dent: early childhood professionals means that their development is being observed. 100 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,500 Georgie Dent: And therefore, if there is something, and I know this 101 00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:28,710 Georgie Dent: from our experience, when our eldest child was three, it 102 00:06:28,710 --> 00:06:31,529 Georgie Dent: was her early childhood educators who said to us, we 103 00:06:31,529 --> 00:06:34,890 Georgie Dent: think that she needs a speech assessment, and she did. 104 00:06:35,070 --> 00:06:37,650 Georgie Dent: And we went and saw a speech therapist, and within 105 00:06:37,650 --> 00:06:41,279 Georgie Dent: a year her speech had been improved. And that set 106 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:42,960 Georgie Dent: her up to be in a position that when she 107 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,740 Georgie Dent: arrived at school, she was much more able to sort 108 00:06:46,740 --> 00:06:49,110 Georgie Dent: of learn than if she had missed out on that 109 00:06:49,110 --> 00:06:52,560 Georgie Dent: opportunity, because you get this unique window in the early 110 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,279 Georgie Dent: years to make a huge difference. And further to my 111 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,680 Georgie Dent: point before about the extent to which we're letting children 112 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,230 Georgie Dent: down, and I know this is something that your partner 113 00:07:01,230 --> 00:07:05,160 Georgie Dent: Jackie is far too familiar with, is that the national 114 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,370 Georgie Dent: average in Australia is that one in five children arrive 115 00:07:08,370 --> 00:07:14,310 Georgie Dent: at school developmentally vulnerable. Now, in remote and regional areas, 116 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,270 Georgie Dent: it's two in five. Among Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander 117 00:07:18,270 --> 00:07:22,050 Georgie Dent: children, it's half. And what we know is that when 118 00:07:22,050 --> 00:07:26,310 Georgie Dent: children arrive at school behind, they rarely, if ever, catch 119 00:07:26,310 --> 00:07:29,910 Georgie Dent: up to their peers. Now, children who have access to 120 00:07:29,910 --> 00:07:33,120 Georgie Dent: even one year of quality early childhood education and care 121 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,570 Georgie Dent: before they start school are half as likely to arrive 122 00:07:36,570 --> 00:07:39,360 Georgie Dent: at school behind. So when you take a step back 123 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:44,430 Georgie Dent: and you look at the educational, health, and economic trajectory, 124 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,750 Georgie Dent: what happens between zero and five is the most profound 125 00:07:48,750 --> 00:07:52,650 Georgie Dent: window we have, and we can quite literally set up 126 00:07:52,740 --> 00:07:56,490 Georgie Dent: future generations for success if we get those early years right. 127 00:07:57,300 --> 00:08:00,660 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so we have early intervention and we have financial 128 00:08:00,900 --> 00:08:06,450 Sean Aylmer: security slash independence for primary caregivers, primarily women. Both those 129 00:08:06,450 --> 00:08:10,890 Sean Aylmer: are great objectives. Do you think the government understands it? 130 00:08:10,890 --> 00:08:12,660 Sean Aylmer: Do you think they've got the political will? Do you think 131 00:08:12,660 --> 00:08:14,670 Sean Aylmer: there'll be something in next week's budget around it? 132 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,600 Georgie Dent: Look, we are coming off the back of, we have 133 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:24,360 Georgie Dent: had more than a decade of absolute stagnation on pursuing 134 00:08:24,810 --> 00:08:28,590 Georgie Dent: the policies that we know would improve the lives in 135 00:08:28,590 --> 00:08:33,030 Georgie Dent: a meaningful way of children and women in particular. And 136 00:08:33,059 --> 00:08:37,199 Georgie Dent: it is incredibly disappointing that Australia lags the world on 137 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,859 Georgie Dent: so many metrics when it comes to paid parental leave, 138 00:08:40,860 --> 00:08:43,620 Georgie Dent: when it comes to women's workforce participation, when it comes 139 00:08:43,620 --> 00:08:48,270 Georgie Dent: to children accessing early education and care. We lag the world, 140 00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:51,840 Georgie Dent: but that is not an accident, it's because we have 141 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,160 Georgie Dent: not pursued the policies that we know enable children and 142 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,929 Georgie Dent: women in particular to thrive. Now, the 2022 federal election 143 00:09:00,929 --> 00:09:04,920 Georgie Dent: was a really significant election. I mean, every federal election 144 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:10,230 Georgie Dent: is, but what we saw overwhelmingly in 2022 was women 145 00:09:10,290 --> 00:09:15,750 Georgie Dent: voted for candidates and parties that were committed to action 146 00:09:15,780 --> 00:09:19,740 Georgie Dent: on gender equality. So we saw that from the teal 147 00:09:19,740 --> 00:09:23,460 Georgie Dent: candidates who were successful. One of their key pillars was 148 00:09:23,460 --> 00:09:27,359 Georgie Dent: on equity. We saw that obviously both the Labor Party 149 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,500 Georgie Dent: and the Greens improved their standing among voters, and both 150 00:09:31,500 --> 00:09:35,339 Georgie Dent: of them had gone to the election with key policy 151 00:09:35,580 --> 00:09:39,929 Georgie Dent: commitments that would address gender equality. So for the Albanese 152 00:09:39,929 --> 00:09:43,709 Georgie Dent: Government, their commitment to making early childhood education care more 153 00:09:43,710 --> 00:09:48,719 Georgie Dent: affordable was a key policy offering. The Greens have got 154 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:53,400 Georgie Dent: similar positions. Now, we have seen from this Albanese Government, 155 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,030 Georgie Dent: they have announced an expansion of paid parental leave. They 156 00:09:57,030 --> 00:10:01,200 Georgie Dent: have put in place a productivity commission to look at 157 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,490 Georgie Dent: creating a truly universal early childhood education and care system. 158 00:10:05,970 --> 00:10:10,319 Georgie Dent: And there's no downplaying that. If we were to have 159 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,500 Georgie Dent: an early childhood education and care system, that was like our 160 00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:18,300 Georgie Dent: primary school system where a child's access has absolutely no, 161 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,620 Georgie Dent: their postcode or their parents' income or their parents' activity 162 00:10:22,620 --> 00:10:25,470 Georgie Dent: doesn't determine whether or not they can go there. If 163 00:10:25,470 --> 00:10:28,679 Georgie Dent: we move to that for the early years, that does 164 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:34,079 Georgie Dent: represent easily the most significant social economic reform that we 165 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,140 Georgie Dent: could ever pursue. It is life changing. So we have 166 00:10:37,140 --> 00:10:41,790 Georgie Dent: got, there are promising signs that this federal government recognize 167 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,230 Georgie Dent: the imperative to act and they recognize the importance of 168 00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:50,550 Georgie Dent: pursuing evidence- based policies, not just sort of, there's that 169 00:10:50,550 --> 00:10:53,400 Georgie Dent: famous line, hope is not a strategy. Saying that we 170 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,550 Georgie Dent: would hope that women are more equal is never going 171 00:10:56,550 --> 00:10:59,250 Georgie Dent: to achieve anything. In terms of what's going to be 172 00:10:59,250 --> 00:11:02,340 Georgie Dent: in this budget, I do think there is going to 173 00:11:04,050 --> 00:11:07,200 Georgie Dent: be some things that are significant. It doesn't go the 174 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,770 Georgie Dent: whole way. We know that single parents are probably going 175 00:11:10,770 --> 00:11:14,460 Georgie Dent: to have the parenting payment restored until the eldest child 176 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,630 Georgie Dent: is, if not 16, maybe 14. And that's going to 177 00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:21,990 Georgie Dent: make a difference because we know that the decision to 178 00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:24,720 Georgie Dent: take the parenting payment off single parents when their child 179 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:29,130 Georgie Dent: turned eight has been devastating. And there's been much more 180 00:11:29,130 --> 00:11:33,030 Georgie Dent: conversation around this that women over 55 are the fastest 181 00:11:33,030 --> 00:11:39,420 Georgie Dent: growing group of Australians who experience homelessness. Recognizing the structural 182 00:11:39,420 --> 00:11:44,520 Georgie Dent: factors that create that disadvantage is huge. I would like 183 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,989 Georgie Dent: to see more ambition from the federal government currently to 184 00:11:48,990 --> 00:11:51,240 Georgie Dent: address some of those driving factors. 185 00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:53,820 Sean Aylmer: We'll wait and see on Tuesday night. Georgie, thank you 186 00:11:53,820 --> 00:11:55,110 Sean Aylmer: for talking to Fear and Greed. 187 00:11:55,500 --> 00:11:56,880 Georgie Dent: Thanks so much for having me, Sean. 188 00:11:57,630 --> 00:12:00,930 Sean Aylmer: That was Georgie Dent, journalist, author, and Executive Director of 189 00:12:00,990 --> 00:12:03,840 Sean Aylmer: The Parenthood. This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. 190 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:05,880 Sean Aylmer: Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear 191 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,510 Sean Aylmer: and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. 192 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:10,410 Sean Aylmer: Enjoy your day.