Speaker 1: Approache Production. Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am
Speaker 1: Neil the Muscle comments and in this episode we hear
Speaker 1: part two of my interview with Ron Isherwood, and.
Speaker 2: I need to hear I made. I can't come in
Speaker 2: here and tell you bullshit watching him die like that.
Speaker 2: It's going to sound horrible, and I add more satisfaction
Speaker 2: watching him die like that. And the reason I'm clean
Speaker 2: is because my life is better when I don't take drugs.
Speaker 2: The system doesn't get it. We are never going to
Speaker 2: strop importations while there's a demand. If I can teach
Speaker 2: other people how not to take dreats, you know, excited
Speaker 2: to work out why I took them. I took them
Speaker 2: because I thought I was worth it. Mate. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm blessed. I really am blessed, and I believe it's
Speaker 2: because of what I do, not what I've done. You know,
Speaker 2: when people talking, I get hurt, but I understand it,
Speaker 2: and then you'd be the same people judge us on
Speaker 2: our past. It's like breaking into a house with you.
Speaker 2: You're not fucking there anymore. You can keep breaking to
Speaker 2: that house. There's nothing in there, you dickhead. Why are
Speaker 2: you breaking into that house? I'm not there, you know.
Speaker 2: It's just really really And people say to me, mate,
Speaker 2: you can't blame it, you know that you did it.
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, But fucking how many times do I
Speaker 2: have to be convicted for the same crime? How much
Speaker 2: punishment do I have to have? I'm not a victim,
Speaker 2: But for fuck's sake, you know, like, get over it.
Speaker 2: Like your girlfriend leaves you, you hate her forever, you
Speaker 2: hope that she has a good life. Pissed off for
Speaker 2: a couple of months till the next one comes along,
Speaker 2: and then we get on with it. Society is not
Speaker 2: built that way. That's the sad part I think that
Speaker 2: I find for me is that people want to judge
Speaker 2: me on my past. And I swear, I swear to God,
Speaker 2: I swear to whoever it is. If you put down
Speaker 2: all the shit things I've done and all the good
Speaker 2: things I've done, I'm fucking I'm pretty far ahead, mate,
Speaker 2: I really am, you know. And it's yeah, And I
Speaker 2: do believe in karma. I believe in you do good,
Speaker 2: good comes back. I don't believe it in bad kara.
Speaker 2: And you know, I believe bad karma is there. But
Speaker 2: I believe in karma and karmas. What you put out
Speaker 2: is what you get back. And I love what you're
Speaker 2: doing because I think it's important that we put a
Speaker 2: message out there that people do change, we can change,
Speaker 2: and we have changed, and that we're not all tired
Speaker 2: with the same brush. Just because we did bad things
Speaker 2: didn't mean more bad people. That's a really important thing
Speaker 2: because for years I thought I was a bad person,
Speaker 2: and I was never a bad person, made ays, had
Speaker 2: a good heart, you know, and you know, and as
Speaker 2: I said earlier, this thing my favorite saying about most people.
Speaker 2: It's not hard a gold head of spaghetti, because that's
Speaker 2: that's the trouble. And my job is done travel with spaghetti.
Speaker 2: When I work with people in drug addiction, my job
Speaker 2: is don't travel this spaghetti, you know. And today we've
Speaker 2: gone into helping people that have been abused in institutions
Speaker 2: you know where to be, jails, churches, schools, fucking boy scouts.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what it is. We've taken over. I've
Speaker 2: basically taken over from Russell, but not social media. Your bullshit.
Speaker 2: Don't make me wearing the tide shorts. I told him
Speaker 2: I could have a fit into that shorts too small
Speaker 2: for me. But all that stuff, you know, I believe
Speaker 2: you know, he brought that up. Russell brought that was
Speaker 2: he he set that up because of his own abuse.
Speaker 2: Most guys that have had really troubled youths were abused
Speaker 2: in some way or another. So it doesn't have to
Speaker 2: be just sexual. Can be physical, spiritual, emotional. It's all abuse,
Speaker 2: abuses abuse. I was told I was worthless, useless and habeless,
Speaker 2: and I tried to prove them right for a long
Speaker 2: long time. And today I believe I'm worthy, I'm useful,
Speaker 2: and I'm a really good human burning It's nice. It's
Speaker 2: nice to be able to say to yourself, yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: you're okay, You're not a bad blake. You know you
Speaker 2: he had, he had a roughed up. You don't going
Speaker 2: to fight at the first round. You've to fight at
Speaker 2: the end of the end of the right, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. The race has got to be finished
Speaker 2: before you go judging something. You know who the winner,
Speaker 2: knew the loser was. And my past has made me
Speaker 2: who I am today. I can't change it. I can
Speaker 2: accept it, not going to learn from it. I have
Speaker 2: some parts of my past that I'm really grateful for,
Speaker 2: even for my scumbag father. I have some pass his tenacity.
Speaker 2: You know, I won't give up. I will never give up.
Speaker 2: I will never, ever, ever fucking surrender. I won't surrender.
Speaker 1: What did you dude think of you when you in
Speaker 1: your latter years, when you were coming out of jail
Speaker 1: and he's seen how bad you were like as as
Speaker 1: an addict.
Speaker 2: My whole man hated two things. Hated junkies, hated tattoos. Wow,
Speaker 2: that's in my body. Yes, said that he hated you know.
Speaker 2: My biggest issue was that I was trying to make
Speaker 2: him pay. I think in retrospect.
Speaker 1: It truly shot you or try to.
Speaker 2: Shoot me for a slam in the front door. He shot
Speaker 2: at me twice with the forty five Wow made. He
Speaker 2: was sexually abusing my sister. You know, he's a fucking
Speaker 2: piece of shit. You know. My sister had a child
Speaker 2: to him. My stepsister had a child to my father.
Speaker 2: People wondered why I hated him so much, you know,
Speaker 2: but I didn't find that out until I was fifteen
Speaker 2: or sixteen. I never used her until I was nineteen.
Speaker 2: My mom passedway in March, my mom passed away, and
Speaker 2: I was using heroin by may. My mom never seen
Speaker 2: me as a junkie, which was really nice. And I
Speaker 2: was so scared of him. That's been truth. I asked
Speaker 2: mom if I could kill him when I was fourteen.
Speaker 2: I said, when he comes home, I'm going to blow
Speaker 2: his head off. My mom didn't say, I don't kill
Speaker 2: your dad. She said he's not worth going to jo for.
Speaker 2: Well about years later, did you ever want to do it?
Speaker 1: Years later when you knew that you were a bit more?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, years later. I watched him die slowly. It
Speaker 2: was even better. Sounds horrible, but he ended up with nothing,
Speaker 2: ended up living in a ship house out of the
Speaker 2: back of Kenley veil, the paint falling off the war,
Speaker 2: the hot water system was blown up and they're boiling
Speaker 2: jugs of someone who was so high up. Just end
Speaker 2: up with nothing and watching him die like that, it's
Speaker 2: going to sound horrible. I can only tell you I made.
Speaker 2: I can't come here and tell you bullshit. I had more.
Speaker 2: I'm not enjoyment. Was it more satisfaction? More satisfaction watching
Speaker 2: him die like that, like died with nothing enough to
Speaker 2: do it. But you know, you can sit back on
Speaker 2: just watch it. And as Mum said, he wasn't with
Speaker 2: you know, taking a life. I think it's a pretty
Speaker 2: big deal. I think you have to have to learn
Speaker 2: to live it. I've been unfortunate enough to live with
Speaker 2: a lot of murderers and hang out with a lot
Speaker 2: of murderers, and you know, and even the ones that
Speaker 2: we're murderers, murders, murders that liked doing the murders, and
Speaker 2: that they still they're still I don't give a fuck
Speaker 2: what they say. They're still not comfortable with themselves. Mate,
Speaker 2: They're still not comfortable with themselves. They're still not I
Speaker 2: don't believe you know, we are human beings where I was,
Speaker 2: I don't care who you serve. We all serve somebody.
Speaker 2: We all have this thing like you've got to pay
Speaker 2: the piper, you know, we all got to pay the
Speaker 2: piper one day. There's always going to be a And
Speaker 2: as I said, you know, I've been to jail with
Speaker 2: a lot of murderers. You know, like I don't know why,
Speaker 2: because I was doing eighteen years. So you associate with
Speaker 2: people that are doing big lagons, and even before that,
Speaker 2: because of my bullshit gangster pass, that's who you attracted
Speaker 2: to the other gangsters. So you all nick together. You know,
Speaker 2: all the frauds hang together over here, all the fuger
Speaker 2: pedophiles are going into their section, you know, you know,
Speaker 2: you sort of attract like attracts like you know. And
Speaker 2: my crew was always the murderers doing big lagons, guys
Speaker 2: that were very anti system. We trained really hard, and
Speaker 2: people thought we trained hard to protect yourself from each other.
Speaker 2: We didn't protect yourself from each other. We'll protecting ustufs
Speaker 2: from the system because when the screws comes flying in
Speaker 2: the door with their fucking batman Robin out fits on
Speaker 2: Batman yah, and you know you had to be fit
Speaker 2: and healthy, you think, yeah, because that's that would happen.
Speaker 2: You know, they just kicked the door over at four
Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning and run in and bash and
Speaker 2: throw in the van and you end up with gold.
Speaker 2: And what the fuck am I doing in gold? But
Speaker 2: you know I've got no visitors. And they do that,
Speaker 2: then you might be in gold. But what they used
Speaker 2: to do, oh, it's terrific. Russ used to bang his
Speaker 2: head around about it sometimes and under strip what do
Speaker 2: you call it? O c D. I'm obsessively compulsive, and
Speaker 2: everything's got to be spotless. Of now. Man. You know,
Speaker 2: in my wardrobe, my clothes go from black white blue,
Speaker 2: and they do all my clothes and all my shirts
Speaker 2: are folded and everything's iMac everything's got to be like that.
Speaker 2: My cars are always clean. You never see my car dirty.
Speaker 2: It's never, never dirty, never. And if I go into
Speaker 2: the rain, I came out, I hose the car down.
Speaker 2: You know, it's just there's something you might make up.
Speaker 2: What the screws would do. They'd put me into a
Speaker 2: cell and I would fucking scrub that cell all night.
Speaker 2: I'd scrub it, I'd get so, i'd get soap, and
Speaker 2: I'd scrub every bit of the cell. Two days later
Speaker 2: they move in another cell. Fuck. That was their game.
Speaker 2: That was their game. They'd just done that to me
Speaker 2: so many times because they knew that I couldn't cope
Speaker 2: with it. Because you have to sell blacks and picked
Speaker 2: their names and put the shit and they're pisted on
Speaker 2: the walls, and you know, I've got to sleep in
Speaker 2: it because you're taller in your beside your bed, you know,
Speaker 2: and some ass it's just got a bunk. If you
Speaker 2: know I can't live in that. You know, today I
Speaker 2: run my companies the same way as I plan that
Speaker 2: cell thoroughly, I do things very thoroughly. I'm consistent, I'm reliable,
Speaker 2: I'm accepting, I'm honest. You know, I'm respectful, and I
Speaker 2: respect myself. I won't disrespect myself by cheating on my wife.
Speaker 2: Sounds funny. If I'm hanging out with guys in business
Speaker 2: these days and they cheat on their wives, I won't
Speaker 2: do business with them. And they go, why, I say
Speaker 2: we If you cheat on who, what are you going
Speaker 2: to do to me? You're cheating on the person's the mother,
Speaker 2: your children, the person you spend all your time with.
Speaker 2: What the fuck are you going to do to me?
Speaker 2: So I've got this incredible and it's really hard. My
Speaker 2: wife says, we honey, you expectations you're too high. And
Speaker 2: I say, well, I'm not going to love with them.
Speaker 2: I'd rather have less friends, you know. And I'm an
Speaker 2: ex junkie. I so I'd rather have a grammar pure
Speaker 2: than a kilo shit. And it's the same with friendships,
Speaker 2: it's the same with business partners, it's the same with
Speaker 2: any relationship. I want to be able to look you
Speaker 2: in the eye and say how I made how brother? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And feel it you know, like fucking I want people
Speaker 2: to come with us. Man, I don't want to be
Speaker 2: bigger and better than anyone. I was all to grow together.
Speaker 2: That was one of my downfalls that I thought people
Speaker 2: thought the same as I did and they didn't. And
Speaker 2: it was one of my downfalls as a kid. I
Speaker 2: believed in the I wrote a book, you know that,
Speaker 2: I meant to bring it down. I'll send it to you.
Speaker 2: I actually had it out and I signed it to
Speaker 2: you and everything I fucking left in the cupboard. It's
Speaker 2: called Born into the Lie of Crime. It's called it
Speaker 2: says life al f e and I blacked the f
Speaker 2: out and it just says born to the lie of crime.
Speaker 2: Because we thought it was a life. It was just
Speaker 2: a lie. There's no loyalty, there's no trust, there's no
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know about you know it. You
Speaker 2: came up across after I'd finished up there, and mate,
Speaker 2: there's some horrific people up there in the old days.
Speaker 2: You know, some of the club owners were horrific. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's some nasty piece of work up there. Just just morally,
Speaker 2: don't taken me wrong. I was no saint, but you know,
Speaker 2: I still had certain principles where I didn't want to
Speaker 2: see people being exploited, especially weak people. I've always had
Speaker 2: that wanted to save people and wanted to help people
Speaker 2: when I was a bloody drug dealing and I still
Speaker 2: wanted to help people. I just I don't know. I
Speaker 2: have a I have a good heart, that's the truth.
Speaker 1: I have a good heart, and I have a But
Speaker 1: usually the ones who have the good heart are the
Speaker 1: ones who get sucked over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: ever met Peter, Kay? Did you hear about Pete? He
Speaker 2: was Billy Bayo's partner at the end. But I knew
Speaker 2: Peter before you ever took drugs. He was just something
Speaker 2: like a twenty four year old guy driving a Ferrari
Speaker 2: and the rolls of rice. He ain't the Cosmopolitan, He
Speaker 2: ain't the Cosmo, he ain't won in nine Before he
Speaker 2: took drugs, he was just a really good operator restaurant.
Speaker 2: I rade a Greek boy, lovely guy. And then I
Speaker 2: seen him get on the coat and I just ended
Speaker 2: by killing himself, hung himself in jail, you know, And
Speaker 2: just I just seen people. That's why I hate drugs now.
Speaker 2: I've just seen so many good people just fucking destroy
Speaker 2: their lives. And I didn't you know, we haven't even
Speaker 2: touched on that thing called ice. That's just another one together.
Speaker 2: That's the dead, that's the devil's drug. Whoever the devil is,
Speaker 2: I'll tell you about it is. I know drugs smugglers
Speaker 2: and drug dealers that won't even bring into the country,
Speaker 2: you know, the old guys, the old school guys, they
Speaker 2: won't to bring into the country because they said, it's
Speaker 2: just such a fucking gum drag. You and these guys
Speaker 2: would sell their grandmother for fucking for a penny, but
Speaker 2: they won't even deal with that. You know, That's how
Speaker 2: horrible it is. And when I meet somebody these days,
Speaker 2: because because I work in drug and alcoho and try
Speaker 2: to help people on that, as soon as I meet them,
Speaker 2: I say, you're a nice headga, you know that, And
Speaker 2: I have a look at you. Your fried still, you know,
Speaker 2: having used for twelve months and they're still fried. You know,
Speaker 2: they're still. It's sad. I'm scared of watching it what's coming.
Speaker 2: But do you think called fentanyl coming, that's going to
Speaker 2: be something that we that we've never seen this that
Speaker 2: likes of you can put it on a pin head
Speaker 2: and a kulsure so strong. That's just killing America right now.
Speaker 2: And we follow America's trends. We have all the times,
Speaker 2: have always follow America's trends, you know, and I hope
Speaker 2: to God that the system doesn't get it. We are
Speaker 2: never going to stop importations while there's a demand. So
Speaker 2: what we have to do is take away the demand.
Speaker 2: And we do that by having people learning how to
Speaker 2: get off dope. Because if there's no fucking druggies, why
Speaker 2: would you bring it in? You don't have your storage share.
Speaker 2: They're on you get finished, better storage shared, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. So we have to get more money
Speaker 2: into the education to help people to get clean and
Speaker 2: work out what's causing the people to get why people
Speaker 2: using it starts off as fun for someers, but most
Speaker 2: of us starts offers to kill a pain because we
Speaker 2: have trauma, depression, depression trauma. Where did the trauma come from?
Speaker 2: We have to start treating the trauma. We have to
Speaker 2: start looking at why people use, not what they use,
Speaker 2: what these is irrelevance, Why they use, and that's what
Speaker 2: we have to start as a society. Take away the demand,
Speaker 2: take away the demand the drug dealers that go away,
Speaker 2: or and this is going to sound even crazier, fucking
Speaker 2: legalize it. Take the crime out of it, because it's
Speaker 2: not fun. I don't know even half the fun for
Speaker 2: me was getting the trip, was been sneaking. It's getting
Speaker 2: away with it. You know, I'm a naughdy boy. I'm
Speaker 2: fucking fuck you. You know that's honestly. Part of the
Speaker 2: part of me with crime was fuck you. I've got
Speaker 2: away from this. You know, I'm smarter than you are.
Speaker 2: But as a copper said to me, and I will
Speaker 2: hear it till the day I die, You've only got
Speaker 2: to make one mistake, he said on my background. And
Speaker 2: they just raided my house and they got nothing. And
Speaker 2: there's a whole federal task force and they usually come
Speaker 2: with the SWAT team because of my commissions and do
Speaker 2: the rest and them after the SWAT team to leave.
Speaker 2: Then the cops come and he said, do you believe
Speaker 2: in karma? I said I do. Actually, he said, fucking
Speaker 2: You've only got to make one mistake, and so I'll
Speaker 2: be there. I said, I fuck off, dickhead, you know,
Speaker 2: And that's you know, not saying. My daughter was born
Speaker 2: the next day That's why I know Zach Date. You
Speaker 2: know my little girl, she's twenty eight now, twenty nine
Speaker 2: this year. You know, fucking you fuck off dickhead. Four
Speaker 2: years later, I'm handcuffed in the back of a van
Speaker 2: thinking fucking karma. Cama, it got me, you know, And yeah, say,
Speaker 2: you know, karma is a good thing. But as long
Speaker 2: as you're doing good things, and I say people all
Speaker 2: the time, if you do good things, good things come back.
Speaker 2: I'm massive believer in you know, you.
Speaker 1: Haven't come across anyone who's like now, because what you
Speaker 1: do is like you talk to people who've like drug
Speaker 1: addictions like that have come. Have you come across anybody
Speaker 1: who was as bad as you as an addictive.
Speaker 2: There's not that many people came up with my lifestyle
Speaker 2: that got out of it. I'm really blessed. I am
Speaker 2: really blessed. You know, most people didn't have that upbringing
Speaker 2: that I had. I think one guy at the top
Speaker 2: of my head that he wasn't as violent as me,
Speaker 2: but he had a pretty rough I know his dad.
Speaker 2: His dad was a made of mild means and he's clean,
Speaker 2: he's cleaned forty years and he works in dragon alcohol.
Speaker 2: It's funny here most of us that it clean end
Speaker 2: up heading towards that thing. To the therapeutic value of
Speaker 2: one edit jobbing another is with that parallel Like can
Speaker 2: you imagine a tennis player trying to teach her to
Speaker 2: do jiu jitsu? Yeah? Like that was yeah, because you
Speaker 2: can't teach you if you can't do I say it all
Speaker 2: the time, if you can't teach, you can't do you
Speaker 2: no good. If someone trying to teach me, I'm me
Speaker 2: trying to teach somebody how to play tennis. I can
Speaker 2: teach how to fight. I can teach you how to box,
Speaker 2: I can teach you how to train, because I can do
Speaker 2: those things. And I've only done them things because of practice.
Speaker 2: And I say, with us recoveries, it all about practicing, practicing,
Speaker 2: not listening to your brain. Because we don't have a
Speaker 2: drug problem. We have a thinking problem. Drugs not the problem.
Speaker 2: Because you take the drug out, we're still at the
Speaker 2: same fucking head. They're still because you know, I got drugs,
Speaker 2: I went to sex. You know, crime is the hardest
Speaker 2: thing to give up. Crime is the hardest thing for
Speaker 2: me to give up, because how did you give it up?
Speaker 2: I was not prepared to lose it. I've got to
Speaker 2: be honest. I started to I make I made really
Speaker 2: good money legally. You know, I'm not. I'm not a deal.
Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not. I'm not the worthless, useless, stupid
Speaker 2: dick I thought I was. That I was told I was. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Now my mommy told me I was a fucking idiot. Ah, gosh,
Speaker 2: you know your dick head, you know, And yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: actually not. I'm actually quite intelligent. I've written a book,
Speaker 2: I did a courses. I run companies. You know, I
Speaker 2: sit down and have you know, if you go through
Speaker 2: my phone, you have a heart attack. You know. The
Speaker 2: people that I sit down and have talks about finances
Speaker 2: and building and you know, we do probably development, We
Speaker 2: do fucking we do lots of ship. You know. I
Speaker 2: had a dinner the other night at Gala, dinner for
Speaker 2: a little girl who's got a really horrible disease because
Speaker 2: SPG fifty six and she's five years age. Out of Gala.
Speaker 2: We got I think we've got eighty six grand we
Speaker 2: raised for her for her parents. And I sit there
Speaker 2: talking to a gens doctor. Doctor that makes fucking you
Speaker 2: make a human brain out of out of blood tissues.
Speaker 2: You know, he's a professor in genealogy and his history
Speaker 2: kids from fitz Roy. You know, child, you know the brain, said,
Speaker 2: I sit down. We've had conversations with him, and you
Speaker 2: know about addiction, about the brain, you know, and I
Speaker 2: sometimes pinched me someone. So who's the strict kid that
Speaker 2: had no education sitting down having conversations with people who
Speaker 2: are you know? I have lots of friends who are
Speaker 2: worth hundreds of meters of dollars and I say to them,
Speaker 2: I don't give a fuck about your wealth. I care
Speaker 2: about your health. How's your head? And they can't believe it.
Speaker 2: And I say to them, I don't get to sign
Speaker 2: your check book, but I get to check on your
Speaker 2: mental health. Because everybody has some issues. We all have something,
Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't matter. Workaholics and sec exactly the
Speaker 2: same thing. They lose their family, They ended by going insane.
Speaker 2: They start taking chemicals to cope with the fucking late nights,
Speaker 2: early mornings. Next thing, having a little having a little bumpy,
Speaker 2: a little bump there just to get them through the night.
Speaker 2: You know, I think much clearer on this. And the
Speaker 2: little bump starts from being a little bumped you know,
Speaker 2: for on our foot line, just tell it a little.
Speaker 2: My dad's I see, I think as garfaged, but I
Speaker 2: have I got friends with with hundreds of millions of dollars.
Speaker 2: And I say, Tom, I don't care about your wealth.
Speaker 2: I care about your health. What's going on with your head?
Speaker 2: You know, man, I've been blessed. I met Charlie Sheen.
Speaker 2: He was he was one of the funniest guys in
Speaker 2: the world. Fuck, he's funny. And he was like, what
Speaker 2: do you take me on the NA meetings? And I say,
Speaker 2: wouldn't fucking hurgh, you know, And this is before two
Speaker 2: and a half minutes before he lost the plot completely.
Speaker 2: Those days, I was just drinking, gave me some mass
Speaker 2: to quell, and dropping corylades and fucking snorting fucking lines
Speaker 2: of coke as long as my arm. You know, he
Speaker 2: hadn't really lost a plot at that stage. It's all
Speaker 2: because I'm clean. Everything I have today is because I'm clean.
Speaker 2: The ability to sit in and have a conversation with
Speaker 2: is because I'm clean. And the reason I'm clean is
Speaker 2: because my life is better when I don't take drugs.
Speaker 2: So therefore, I've realized that if my life's better when
Speaker 2: I don't take drugs. If I can teach other people
Speaker 2: how not to take drugs, you know, because I had
Speaker 2: to work out why I took them. I took them
Speaker 2: because I was scared. I took them because I thought
Speaker 2: I was worthless. I took them because at first I
Speaker 2: thought though I was stopping the pain, the pain of
Speaker 2: having that father. I've only talked about this stuff with
Speaker 2: my sisters, my father, and over the last few years
Speaker 2: since I've got arrested. She sounds funny. Getting the restlmers
Speaker 2: the best thing to have happened to me In two
Speaker 2: thousand and two. It was the best thing to have
Speaker 2: happened to me. I had a spiritual awakening, not in
Speaker 2: a Christian way, not in a some people call it
Speaker 2: a rude awaitning. I had a spiritual awakening. I had
Speaker 2: to work out, what do you really want at fifty
Speaker 2: years of age? I said old I was forty nine?
Speaker 2: Is something I got pinched forty eight? Do you really
Speaker 2: want a life a crime that doesn't pay that I
Speaker 2: spent eight years in jail. My best business friend visited
Speaker 2: me once and put one hundred and fifty dollars in
Speaker 2: my property. This is my partner. It was like, are
Speaker 2: you serious? This is fucking my best mate. This is
Speaker 2: the guy that we took risks to lose our lives
Speaker 2: all around the world, and the scum bay put fucking
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty bucks in my property and visited
Speaker 2: me once in eight years and try to root me girl,
Speaker 2: you know, And that's that's what it is. That's when
Speaker 2: we get down to what really is going on out there.
Speaker 2: That's what it is. Wow, you know, there's no it's
Speaker 2: a lie. Crime is a lie. You regret. Regrets is
Speaker 2: a big word. Regrets. There's a lot of things I
Speaker 2: would change, but I'm pretty happy with who I am today.
Speaker 2: I don't think i'd be who I am today if
Speaker 2: I didn't do what I did. You know. I regret
Speaker 2: not watch my six year old daughter grow up. When
Speaker 2: I went back to jail last time that killed me.
Speaker 2: She was six when I got pissed and I came out,
Speaker 2: and she's sixteen and her mums are Yanks. She moved
Speaker 2: back to America and I was in jail. I stand
Speaker 2: her back to America, but I said, I said, I
Speaker 2: can't do this. I'm not doing this. I can come
Speaker 2: out and visit me, you know, and she'd just go
Speaker 2: home when I get out, if she's still in love
Speaker 2: with me, come back, you know. And she met another
Speaker 2: bloke and moved on with her life, and which I
Speaker 2: don't blame her. I don't have one ounce of resentment
Speaker 2: or thing about that. You know, fucking I just got
Speaker 2: given eighteen years. You know, she was thirty years of age.
Speaker 2: I'm going to wait. You know, I didn't have to
Speaker 2: serve the aideen, but I regret to the man I
Speaker 2: was born to. If you want to really know, if
Speaker 2: you're interested with me, what do you regret? I regret
Speaker 2: that my father wasn't a copper or a barrister. So
Speaker 2: I would have been a good barrister. I would have
Speaker 2: been a good I would have been a good lawyer.
Speaker 2: I would have been a good copper. But I was
Speaker 2: born to a scumbag, fucking crook. And so you know,
Speaker 2: as I say, I wanted my father to love me
Speaker 2: more than I ever wanted anyone else in the world
Speaker 2: to love me. I wanted my father to appreciate me,
Speaker 2: acknowledge me, and be proud of me. You know, I
Speaker 2: got to known your son, who I fucking worship. I
Speaker 2: worship him. I worship the Granny Walks. I mate, if
Speaker 2: they say you need your heart tomorrow, cut it out
Speaker 2: myself and give it to me, you know, because that's
Speaker 2: the father I am, and that's the father I wish
Speaker 2: I had, And so have I got regrets I wish
Speaker 2: I can't in the real world. If I can made
Speaker 2: it wave a magic Wand as long as I'm still
Speaker 2: with the wife and kids, have got today. I wish
Speaker 2: I'd been born to somewhere else, but I wasn't. And
Speaker 2: but I have. What I have today is so beautiful. Honestly,
Speaker 2: money can't buy it. I got. Money cannot buy what
Speaker 2: I've got. And I had a lot more money than
Speaker 2: what I've got now, and money cannot buy what I
Speaker 2: have today.
Speaker 1: What would you describe you in one word?
Speaker 2: A survivor and a teacher. I like to teach. I
Speaker 2: like to teach. I really believe I like to teach.
Speaker 2: I search. I'm a searcher. I'm searching. I haven't found
Speaker 2: the answer yet, but I haven't given up looking for
Speaker 2: it either. And I don't even know what. All I'm
Speaker 2: searching for is love, kindness, forgiveness for myself and others.
Speaker 2: It's really hard to forgive. I find it extremely hard
Speaker 2: to forgive. And I'd like to pretend that I'm a
Speaker 2: spiritual guru, but I'm not. I still have thoughts, and
Speaker 2: I have to stop those thoughts. You know. Sometimes I
Speaker 2: thought can come away, and I think, if I got
Speaker 2: told I had cancer, something, I fucking go and kill
Speaker 2: that can't. But then again, I went through cancer this year,
Speaker 2: so you know I had I had full cancer. Operationally,
Speaker 2: I'm three months, three weeks out of post complete fucking
Speaker 2: radical prostate removal, and you know what, I got the cancer.
Speaker 2: I didn't go and kill anybody. But in my head,
Speaker 2: you know, I used to think that if I ever
Speaker 2: got tired a terminal interests, I'd go and square up
Speaker 2: all these people. But no, I haven't, and I don't
Speaker 2: want to. I don't want to be that person. I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm not that person. I'm really not. I can be,
Speaker 2: and you know that yourself. I don't. Even anyone says
Speaker 2: we all can be we can all be that guy.
Speaker 2: We can all be that guy. I don't hit that mate.
Speaker 2: You come to hurt my wife and children, I'll become
Speaker 2: that guy in a halfboat, you know. And well, I
Speaker 2: have regrets later yeah, that I'm not going to be
Speaker 2: with my wife and kids, not for what I've done now.
Speaker 2: That was the only better I have.
Speaker 1: You.
Speaker 2: I've told you if you come to our house, kiss
Speaker 2: your kids, good boy, because I'm you know, you're not
Speaker 2: gonna let you up. If you come to my house
Speaker 2: to harm me and my children, I'm not only out
Speaker 2: and I'm going to go to prison, a Carol, I've
Speaker 2: been there before. No tigers lines there, There's nothing there
Speaker 2: that scares me. What scares me is losing what I
Speaker 2: have today, my beautiful children, my beautiful wife, my friendships,
Speaker 2: the ability to come and talk with you. You know,
Speaker 2: I appreciate people who have been to that where we
Speaker 2: came from, have been through that world, who know the reality.
Speaker 2: Because we know the reality. You know, everyone's got there
Speaker 2: fucking and they can watch you know, the movies and
Speaker 2: the there's a lot of sadness that they missed between
Speaker 2: those lines. There's a lot of nights that we think, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm going to make it home.
Speaker 2: Because my trouble was never oh is that person going
Speaker 2: to be all right? My my thoughts were hope I
Speaker 2: don't get pinched for this. That was always my thought,
Speaker 2: and then every be like, oh, it's just the night,
Speaker 2: just the one driving the lights and cops and I've
Speaker 2: seen that car twice today. Wats his number? You know,
Speaker 2: I had books of fucking registration numbers. You don't mean
Speaker 2: cross checking regio numbers. Yeah, they're the federal coppers. Oh
Speaker 2: that's the i's got Oh, that's this guad. You don't
Speaker 2: that's the homicide s got ah. You know, like it's
Speaker 2: just so hard at work. People think crime is easy. Crimes,
Speaker 2: this is easy. Living life and lost terms. Being a
Speaker 2: squarehead is so much easier than being a criminal. It's easy.
Speaker 2: I love this. This is easy, you know, this is
Speaker 2: this is quite rewarding, you know, just having choices. I'm
Speaker 2: sitting here, You're in a beautiful office, and you know,
Speaker 2: we're not worrying about fucking who's sitting across the road
Speaker 2: with the camera taking photos office and you know someone
Speaker 2: turning up tomorrow and saying, well, what's your relationship with
Speaker 2: this man? You know? Yeah, I'm blessed made, I'm blessed.
Speaker 2: I'm a very very grateful human booer. And I say
Speaker 2: this with a lot of pride. I'm seventy years of age,
Speaker 2: and I look forward to the next twenty I really
Speaker 2: do you know I'm nowhere. You finished, You finished in
Speaker 2: case you can't kill me, hero and couldn't kill me.
Speaker 2: Good luck to the next one that wants to dry,
Speaker 2: because you know.
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure, bro, I've really enjoyed you know what.
Speaker 1: And I think I've been messaging You've been messaging me
Speaker 1: back and forwards for this to happen, and you know
Speaker 1: it's happened. And when he said, yeah, you can come down,
Speaker 1: I was excited for this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the same same. I respect.
Speaker 1: I was out here man, like it's and I'm glad
Speaker 1: you came down and you've shared your story with me.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to share it.
Speaker 2: Man, I appreciate it. You know, I really doing keep
Speaker 2: doing what you're doing. Thank you, Thank you brother, Thank
Speaker 2: you mart