1 00:00:05,700 --> 00:00:08,549 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed Business Interview, I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:08,610 --> 00:00:11,160 Sean Aylmer: After booming for a decade or so, the craft beer 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,160 Sean Aylmer: industry is in a bit of trouble. More than a 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,670 Sean Aylmer: dozen independent breweries across the country have either shut down 5 00:00:17,879 --> 00:00:21,150 Sean Aylmer: or gone into administration over the past year, including some 6 00:00:21,150 --> 00:00:25,530 Sean Aylmer: big names like Wayward Brewing, Hawkers and Ballistic. But there 7 00:00:25,530 --> 00:00:29,219 Sean Aylmer: are still some standout success stories that have continued to 8 00:00:29,219 --> 00:00:32,400 Sean Aylmer: grow and grow and grow. One of those is a 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,580 Sean Aylmer: Mountain Culture Beer Co. Which started as a small brewery 10 00:00:35,580 --> 00:00:38,640 Sean Aylmer: in Katoomba in the New South Wales Blue Mountains back 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,540 Sean Aylmer: in 2019. Since then, Mountain Culture has increased production by 12 00:00:42,540 --> 00:00:47,729 Sean Aylmer: 4000%, been voted Australia's favorite beer twice, released over 300 13 00:00:47,729 --> 00:00:51,869 Sean Aylmer: limited release beers, and is stocked in over 1, 000 independent bottle 14 00:00:51,870 --> 00:00:55,860 Sean Aylmer: shops across the country. DJ McCready is the CEO and co- 15 00:00:55,860 --> 00:00:59,160 Sean Aylmer: founder of Mountain Culture Beer Co. DJ, welcome to Fear & Greed. 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:00,300 DJ McCready: Thanks, Sean. Great to be here. 17 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,659 Sean Aylmer: Now I'll get your thoughts on the broader industry in 18 00:01:03,660 --> 00:01:07,889 Sean Aylmer: a moment, but tell me the Mountain Culture story. To 19 00:01:07,889 --> 00:01:10,859 Sean Aylmer: be honest, I drive past Katoomba all the time, and 20 00:01:10,859 --> 00:01:13,559 Sean Aylmer: I didn't ever, until this interview came up, I didn't 21 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,420 Sean Aylmer: know anything about you. Tell me your story. 22 00:01:15,810 --> 00:01:18,929 DJ McCready: Oh, mate, well, you have to stop in at some 23 00:01:18,930 --> 00:01:23,520 DJ McCready: point. Yeah, so look, Mountain Culture started out in Katoomba. 24 00:01:24,150 --> 00:01:28,680 DJ McCready: 2019, we opened our doors, took on a Heritage building 25 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,520 DJ McCready: up there because we just really connected with the Blue 26 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,880 DJ McCready: Mountains. And really wanted to start our brand in an 27 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,000 DJ McCready: area that had a lot of character to it and 28 00:01:39,750 --> 00:01:42,959 DJ McCready: several things that we could draw inspiration from. So my 29 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,780 DJ McCready: wife and I have both been big outdoor fans our 30 00:01:45,780 --> 00:01:49,980 DJ McCready: whole lives. And really feeling like the Blue Mountains was 31 00:01:49,980 --> 00:01:54,570 DJ McCready: just the right spot to start up our brand. So 32 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:59,490 DJ McCready: we set out 2019 to open up a small brew 33 00:01:59,490 --> 00:02:02,040 DJ McCready: pub, one, because we really wanted to have a lot 34 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,990 DJ McCready: of connection with our customers. And two, because, well, even 35 00:02:06,990 --> 00:02:09,480 DJ McCready: though we had pretty big dreams about where the company 36 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,959 DJ McCready: would go, we didn't have the biggest budget. And opening 37 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,769 DJ McCready: up a brew pub was pretty much all the cash 38 00:02:16,770 --> 00:02:21,089 DJ McCready: that we could possibly scrounge together, looking under every mattress, 39 00:02:21,089 --> 00:02:24,750 DJ McCready: borrowing every little cent from anybody who was able to 40 00:02:25,169 --> 00:02:29,310 DJ McCready: loan us some money. And yeah, we opened up as 41 00:02:29,310 --> 00:02:31,200 DJ McCready: a small little operation up there. 42 00:02:31,590 --> 00:02:35,279 Sean Aylmer: Are you a brewer? Presumably you need skill to brew 43 00:02:35,669 --> 00:02:37,559 Sean Aylmer: beer. Who does that for you? 44 00:02:37,799 --> 00:02:41,970 DJ McCready: Yeah, absolutely. So my background has always been in production. 45 00:02:42,029 --> 00:02:46,889 DJ McCready: I started brewing when I was about, I think 22, 23 46 00:02:46,889 --> 00:02:51,300 DJ McCready: years old, just making beer on my sink in my 47 00:02:51,300 --> 00:02:54,750 DJ McCready: apartment back in the US with a roommate. I ended 48 00:02:54,750 --> 00:02:57,779 DJ McCready: up teaching for a university for a while, Brewing Science. 49 00:02:57,839 --> 00:03:02,250 DJ McCready: Moved over here to Australia in 2014 to be part 50 00:03:02,250 --> 00:03:05,250 DJ McCready: of a startup on the Northern Beaches. And then set 51 00:03:05,250 --> 00:03:08,460 DJ McCready: out to open up our own company to where I 52 00:03:08,460 --> 00:03:12,689 DJ McCready: was the founding brewer of, leading the team and looking 53 00:03:13,110 --> 00:03:17,399 DJ McCready: towards the future of the brewery. I find it just 54 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,419 DJ McCready: insanely valuable to have actually come from production and actually 55 00:03:21,419 --> 00:03:24,299 DJ McCready: have such a love for beer making and the product. 56 00:03:24,690 --> 00:03:29,369 Sean Aylmer: So I kind of get wine making, I don't necessarily 57 00:03:29,370 --> 00:03:32,790 Sean Aylmer: know much about beer making. Now, for those who don't 58 00:03:32,790 --> 00:03:37,260 Sean Aylmer: know, Mountain Culture Beer, you twice have taken out the 59 00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:40,320 Sean Aylmer: top spot in the GABS Hottest 100 Craft Beer People's 60 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,220 Sean Aylmer: Choice Poll. That's a big deal. In your industry, it's a huge 61 00:03:44,220 --> 00:03:48,240 Sean Aylmer: deal. What is it about beer making? What's the ingredient? 62 00:03:48,630 --> 00:03:51,599 Sean Aylmer: Is it a timing thing? Is it a moisture thing? 63 00:03:51,599 --> 00:03:54,690 Sean Aylmer: What is it that makes beer so good, particularly your beer? 64 00:03:55,380 --> 00:03:58,500 DJ McCready: Well, look, I think this is the reason why I've 65 00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:02,520 DJ McCready: always been so in love with this industry and beer 66 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:07,199 DJ McCready: making in general is there's just endless possibilities of the 67 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,230 DJ McCready: way you can go about creating beer. There's so many 68 00:04:10,230 --> 00:04:14,730 DJ McCready: different inputs farmed locally and from around the world. And 69 00:04:14,730 --> 00:04:18,029 DJ McCready: then there's a million different ways to process those inputs 70 00:04:18,029 --> 00:04:22,740 DJ McCready: depending on the manufacturing equipment that you put in, your 71 00:04:22,740 --> 00:04:27,630 DJ McCready: ethos as far as a brewer, what you find interesting 72 00:04:27,630 --> 00:04:30,209 DJ McCready: on your pallet and the way that you want the 73 00:04:30,209 --> 00:04:33,330 DJ McCready: beers to come across. There's so many different variables that 74 00:04:33,330 --> 00:04:37,950 DJ McCready: it's just literally endless, the different opportunities you can have 75 00:04:38,309 --> 00:04:42,870 DJ McCready: to create a beer. So for us, we don't really 76 00:04:42,870 --> 00:04:47,129 DJ McCready: focus on one particular thing with our beer making. My 77 00:04:47,129 --> 00:04:52,200 DJ McCready: philosophy has always been that it's the sum of several 78 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,460 DJ McCready: small parts coming together that really make a beer go 79 00:04:56,460 --> 00:04:59,880 DJ McCready: from being ordinary to extraordinary. And it's the same way 80 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,940 DJ McCready: that we run the company, that there's no one part 81 00:05:02,940 --> 00:05:06,029 DJ McCready: of Mountain Culture that makes it such a great beer 82 00:05:06,029 --> 00:05:08,549 DJ McCready: brewery. It's the sum of every little part of the 83 00:05:08,550 --> 00:05:12,450 DJ McCready: company coming together to make it a really standout brand. 84 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,789 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me DJ, we'll be back in a minute. 85 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,960 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to DJ McCready, CEO and co- founder of 86 00:05:25,020 --> 00:05:30,330 Sean Aylmer: Mountain Culture Beer Co. Okay, so your first brew pub was 87 00:05:30,330 --> 00:05:33,690 Sean Aylmer: capable of brewing 60,000 liters a year. You now have 88 00:05:33,990 --> 00:05:37,259 Sean Aylmer: the capacity for 8 million liters with a new production 89 00:05:37,259 --> 00:05:41,520 Sean Aylmer: facility at Emu Plains in Sydney's west. That is huge 90 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,760 Sean Aylmer: growth and very, very quickly. How daunting was it for 91 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:46,560 Sean Aylmer: you to step up production like that? 92 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,988 DJ McCready: I think I stopped thinking about it about six or 93 00:05:51,990 --> 00:05:55,559 DJ McCready: seven months in. I remember the hardest decision that I 94 00:05:55,559 --> 00:05:59,879 DJ McCready: had was when we were sitting at that 60,000 liter 95 00:05:59,940 --> 00:06:03,330 DJ McCready: a year mark, and at that point I could count 96 00:06:03,330 --> 00:06:06,630 DJ McCready: all the people that were involved in our business probably 97 00:06:06,630 --> 00:06:10,229 DJ McCready: on one hand. I remember looking at, " Okay, if I 98 00:06:10,230 --> 00:06:12,719 DJ McCready: order more equipment..." And I think at this point we 99 00:06:12,719 --> 00:06:17,489 DJ McCready: were talking about 80, 100 grand worth of equipment coming in. 100 00:06:17,969 --> 00:06:18,149 Sean Aylmer: Yep. 101 00:06:18,209 --> 00:06:20,310 DJ McCready: I really just felt like I was like, " That was 102 00:06:20,310 --> 00:06:22,830 DJ McCready: the point of no return for me." Because we've gone 103 00:06:22,830 --> 00:06:25,680 DJ McCready: from being like, " We just sell a little bit of 104 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,810 DJ McCready: beer over our own bar and we're happy there." To 105 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,650 DJ McCready: now we're dipping our toes into the real world. And 106 00:06:32,730 --> 00:06:36,810 DJ McCready: once we just jumped in, my competitive nature was really 107 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,510 DJ McCready: taking over at that point and being like, " Well, we've 108 00:06:39,510 --> 00:06:41,970 DJ McCready: gone from being like, " We're creating a little bit of 109 00:06:41,970 --> 00:06:44,730 DJ McCready: beer for the Blue Mountains." To, " The only way I'm 110 00:06:44,730 --> 00:06:47,759 DJ McCready: going to accept that we're successful is if we're the 111 00:06:47,759 --> 00:06:50,070 DJ McCready: strongest national craft brand that's out there."" 112 00:06:50,759 --> 00:06:54,600 Sean Aylmer: So how did you grow your brand then? Because many 113 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,789 Sean Aylmer: people would be listening to this and think it's a 114 00:06:56,790 --> 00:07:00,750 Sean Aylmer: great story, but how do you grow your brand in 115 00:07:00,750 --> 00:07:02,160 Sean Aylmer: such a competitive industry too? 116 00:07:02,670 --> 00:07:05,550 DJ McCready: It's a super competitive industry. There's a lot of talented 117 00:07:05,550 --> 00:07:09,000 DJ McCready: people in this industry, a lot of really creative people 118 00:07:09,389 --> 00:07:13,170 DJ McCready: in this industry. And I think, again, in a nutshell, 119 00:07:13,170 --> 00:07:15,450 DJ McCready: I come back to there's not one thing that I 120 00:07:15,450 --> 00:07:18,090 DJ McCready: can really point to to say, " You know what? That's 121 00:07:18,090 --> 00:07:21,002 DJ McCready: what made Mountain Culture successful." Again, it was (inaudible) 122 00:07:20,730 --> 00:07:24,450 DJ McCready: of a lot of small parts coming together that made 123 00:07:24,450 --> 00:07:27,930 DJ McCready: the whole better. Where we were really focusing a lot 124 00:07:28,020 --> 00:07:33,060 DJ McCready: on R& D and creating products that... When we started, 125 00:07:33,060 --> 00:07:36,480 DJ McCready: people used to say, " Oh, you're a hype brewery." And 126 00:07:36,780 --> 00:07:38,849 DJ McCready: as kind of a negative thing. And I used to 127 00:07:38,849 --> 00:07:41,460 DJ McCready: really take that and be like, " Yes, I'm excited to 128 00:07:41,460 --> 00:07:43,711 DJ McCready: create products (inaudible) are excited about." 129 00:07:43,711 --> 00:07:44,160 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Totally. 130 00:07:44,370 --> 00:07:48,059 DJ McCready: I want to give people something that they're so stoked 131 00:07:48,059 --> 00:07:50,100 DJ McCready: about that they want to tell all their friends. And 132 00:07:50,100 --> 00:07:51,600 DJ McCready: they want to tell their family about it, and they 133 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,280 DJ McCready: want to buy the hat and the T- shirt and 134 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,360 DJ McCready: wear the brand. But then we really ran the businesses. 135 00:07:57,780 --> 00:08:00,870 DJ McCready: We've never looked to create customers, we've looked to create 136 00:08:01,500 --> 00:08:05,010 DJ McCready: more family and friends around our brand. And to just 137 00:08:05,010 --> 00:08:07,679 DJ McCready: have a lot of fun with what we do, because 138 00:08:07,740 --> 00:08:10,650 DJ McCready: at the end of the day, we are brewing beer. 139 00:08:11,730 --> 00:08:14,250 DJ McCready: It is a fun product, it's meant to be part 140 00:08:14,250 --> 00:08:16,590 DJ McCready: of people's fun times, it's meant to be part of 141 00:08:16,650 --> 00:08:21,420 DJ McCready: social gatherings and people reconnecting. So really just embodying that 142 00:08:21,420 --> 00:08:23,819 DJ McCready: with our marketing and the way that we communicate with 143 00:08:23,820 --> 00:08:27,900 DJ McCready: people and the way that we interact with our fans 144 00:08:27,900 --> 00:08:31,320 DJ McCready: and friends of the brand at events has been really 145 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:32,220 DJ McCready: important to us. 146 00:08:32,550 --> 00:08:34,978 Sean Aylmer: So 12 years ago, a friend of mine decided to 147 00:08:34,980 --> 00:08:37,740 Sean Aylmer: drink a different beer every day, 365 beers. By the 148 00:08:37,740 --> 00:08:40,230 Sean Aylmer: time he got to about 300, he was really struggling 149 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,160 Sean Aylmer: to find a different beer to get to. Fast- forward 150 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,010 Sean Aylmer: five years, let's say, and it was just the whole 151 00:08:47,010 --> 00:08:50,010 Sean Aylmer: craft beer industry just took off. And there are so many 152 00:08:50,010 --> 00:08:52,830 Sean Aylmer: now, we're actually seeing them pull back with the administrators 153 00:08:52,830 --> 00:08:57,420 Sean Aylmer: and closures of some. What's the prognosis for the industry, 154 00:08:57,420 --> 00:09:00,328 Sean Aylmer: for the craft beer industry? And keeping in mind that 155 00:09:00,330 --> 00:09:02,850 Sean Aylmer: you have the big players, the CUBs in line, the 156 00:09:02,850 --> 00:09:06,059 Sean Aylmer: Asahi and KIRINs, who have bought a bunch of Australian 157 00:09:06,059 --> 00:09:08,670 Sean Aylmer: craft beers, you have the idea of craft washing and 158 00:09:08,670 --> 00:09:11,730 Sean Aylmer: that. What's the outlook for guys like you? 159 00:09:13,230 --> 00:09:17,070 DJ McCready: Look, at the end of the day, I think any 160 00:09:17,070 --> 00:09:21,929 DJ McCready: industry is going to have its challenges. And I think 161 00:09:22,290 --> 00:09:25,920 DJ McCready: craft beer has been very lucky to be living in 162 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,830 DJ McCready: a bubble for a really long time to where it was 163 00:09:28,830 --> 00:09:30,719 DJ McCready: kind of glory days of craft, it was easy to 164 00:09:30,719 --> 00:09:34,620 DJ McCready: sell. There was just lots and lots and lots of 165 00:09:34,830 --> 00:09:37,530 DJ McCready: abundant green pastures for everybody to go to. And I 166 00:09:37,530 --> 00:09:42,660 DJ McCready: think now it is becoming more competitive. And I think that 167 00:09:42,660 --> 00:09:50,400 DJ McCready: that happens in any successful industry. And it does make 168 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:55,650 DJ McCready: growth more challenging, and we have to be creative about 169 00:09:55,650 --> 00:09:57,810 DJ McCready: the way that we grow our products and the way 170 00:09:58,020 --> 00:10:01,470 DJ McCready: that we grow the interest in what we're doing. But 171 00:10:01,770 --> 00:10:05,670 DJ McCready: I still really think those opportunities exist out there, and 172 00:10:05,670 --> 00:10:09,570 DJ McCready: I don't think it's necessarily as doom and gloom as 173 00:10:10,049 --> 00:10:15,929 DJ McCready: everybody lets on. Yeah, there are challenging times with the 174 00:10:15,929 --> 00:10:20,550 DJ McCready: majors creating their own brands, but at the same time, 175 00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:24,630 DJ McCready: there's a lot more educated fans out there on craft 176 00:10:24,630 --> 00:10:27,900 DJ McCready: beer in general. Who know the difference and who reach 177 00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:31,588 DJ McCready: for a product that actually has a genuine brewery behind 178 00:10:31,590 --> 00:10:35,400 DJ McCready: it. Who's putting everything into making that product better and 179 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:40,530 DJ McCready: better and delivering on really quality experiences with their beer. 180 00:10:40,530 --> 00:10:46,348 DJ McCready: So yeah, it's definitely more challenging, but I think that 181 00:10:46,350 --> 00:10:49,350 DJ McCready: that's just any industry as it evolves. 182 00:10:50,070 --> 00:10:51,960 Sean Aylmer: Good luck with it, DJ. Thank you for talking to 183 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:52,710 Sean Aylmer: Fear & Greed. 184 00:10:53,340 --> 00:10:54,750 DJ McCready: Awesome. Thank you for having me. 185 00:10:55,530 --> 00:10:58,590 Sean Aylmer: That was DJ McCready, CEO and co- founder of Mountain 186 00:10:58,650 --> 00:11:01,380 Sean Aylmer: Culture Beer Co. This is the Fear & Greed Business Interview. 187 00:11:01,380 --> 00:11:03,570 Sean Aylmer: Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear & 188 00:11:03,570 --> 00:11:07,530 Sean Aylmer: Greed, Australia's best business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.