WEBVTT - Full circle midwifery and Lactation Support: a chat with Bekki Cavallaro 0:00:05.921 --> 0:00:07.281 Apologie production. 0:00:11.041 --> 0:00:14.441 Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses. 0:00:15.041 --> 0:00:18.801 I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity 0:00:18.881 --> 0:00:22.441 to be, so I hit it and parked it for 0:00:22.561 --> 0:00:23.641 Nelly four years. 0:00:24.121 --> 0:00:26.361 We always have free will, We always get to choose. 0:00:26.481 --> 0:00:30.921 We are autonomous. Afternoon, everyone, Welcome to Tendinness for Nurses. 0:00:31.481 --> 0:00:35.480 Today we have Becky Cavalaro with us who is a 0:00:35.521 --> 0:00:42.240 regted nurse, registered midwife. She is a lactation consultant but 0:00:42.281 --> 0:00:47.001 also a prescribing registered midwife. Becky runs her own business 0:00:47.681 --> 0:00:51.161 around maternity and lactation consultancy and a few other bits 0:00:51.161 --> 0:00:53.201 and bobs that we'll get into, and it's called Full 0:00:53.241 --> 0:00:57.961 Circle Midwife. It's based here in Brisbane. So welcome Becky, 0:00:58.241 --> 0:01:01.761 thank you, thank you for having me. Oh my absolute pleasure. Now, 0:01:02.321 --> 0:01:06.081 how about you fill everyone in on you your journey 0:01:06.161 --> 0:01:09.201 to be where you are today, because looking at what 0:01:09.241 --> 0:01:12.521 you've achieved, there's a fabit of study that's gone into 0:01:13.041 --> 0:01:15.001 your nursing Korea in midw free career. 0:01:15.321 --> 0:01:17.440 Gosh, I don't even know where to start. I think 0:01:18.041 --> 0:01:22.401 the journey started in primary school really, where I knew 0:01:22.761 --> 0:01:25.881 from the get go that I wanted to be a midwife. 0:01:26.721 --> 0:01:30.321 There was never another path. It was a genuine calling. 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:36.360 So everything I did from my Bachelor of nursing, because 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.881 direct entry midwif free wasn't available, everything I did career 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:46.001 wise was directed towards becoming midwife. I became a nurse first, 0:01:46.481 --> 0:01:51.361 became a ni natal intensive care nurse to consolidate those skills. 0:01:51.361 --> 0:01:54.961 I wanted really good foundations before I did my MIDW 0:01:55.121 --> 0:01:57.401 free and because I was straight out of high school 0:01:57.481 --> 0:02:01.721 at that stage for nursing, I couldn't do MIDW free directly. 0:02:02.321 --> 0:02:05.041 And then went into MIDW three and I loved it 0:02:05.361 --> 0:02:10.161 and wanted to have continuity of care and do the 0:02:10.161 --> 0:02:14.041 full scope of practice. So I actually went on to 0:02:14.081 --> 0:02:18.121 get my mid with free registration in the UK. Oh wow, okay, yeah, 0:02:18.201 --> 0:02:21.961 which wasn't straightforward at all, but there was a different 0:02:22.081 --> 0:02:26.841 caliber of midwife in the UK. Back in you know, 0:02:27.001 --> 0:02:31.481 two thousand and six, early two thousands there to Australia, 0:02:32.401 --> 0:02:37.681 and actually my Australian training didn't quite make the cut, 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.721 so I actually had to come back. I could either 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.560 redo my MIDW three in the UK or come back 0:02:43.561 --> 0:02:44.241 to Australia. 0:02:44.481 --> 0:02:46.321 So you came back and you did more, so you 0:02:46.321 --> 0:02:47.240 did your masters here? 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:50.720 Yeah, So I finished my mid with free training, went 0:02:50.761 --> 0:02:53.761 to the UK. I worked as an inatal intensive care 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.520 nurse and then came back to Australia to complete further 0:02:56.561 --> 0:02:59.720 studies so I could get my UK midw free and 0:02:59.841 --> 0:03:02.801 then worked in the UK as a midwife. But it 0:03:02.841 --> 0:03:06.561 took me down a research path anyway. It's a long journey, 0:03:06.561 --> 0:03:12.841 but basically midwife by heart and the path weanded to 0:03:13.121 --> 0:03:18.081 research and natal intensive care, nursing and now lactation. So 0:03:18.321 --> 0:03:23.161 lactation was where things evolved when I had children and 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:27.641 I was a full time continuity of care private practice midwife. 0:03:28.121 --> 0:03:30.440 What research did you do in the UK? 0:03:31.001 --> 0:03:34.400 I was the manager of the Women's Health Research Center 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:38.281 at Imperial College London. There was a site at Saint 0:03:38.361 --> 0:03:42.601 Mary's and Queen Charlotte's in London and supported heaps and 0:03:42.641 --> 0:03:47.281 heaps of different women's health studies. I guess the interesting 0:03:47.401 --> 0:03:49.921 thing about how I ended up in research was more 0:03:49.961 --> 0:03:52.801 of a personal story which I'm happy to share. I 0:03:52.841 --> 0:03:55.761 had a car accident. I was hit by a car 0:03:55.801 --> 0:03:58.801 and unable to physically work as a midwife for a while. 0:03:59.081 --> 0:04:02.721 It brought me down that research path and yeah, I 0:04:02.761 --> 0:04:06.521 absolutely loved it, So I very much have I guess 0:04:06.561 --> 0:04:09.841 the mind, the curiosity for research. I think we really 0:04:09.881 --> 0:04:14.641 need to contribute to the to the evidence we work from. 0:04:15.041 --> 0:04:17.481 And yeah, my time in research in the UK was 0:04:17.561 --> 0:04:20.401 just fascinating, really cool, diverse stuff. 0:04:20.641 --> 0:04:26.361 So you're on the International Board of Certified Lactation Consultants. Yeah, 0:04:26.681 --> 0:04:30.400 is there an Australian Lactation Group or that's who you 0:04:30.481 --> 0:04:31.161 all belong to. 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.121 Yeah, it's an exam. There's a whole lot of criteria 0:04:34.201 --> 0:04:39.520 to become an IBCLC International Board Certified Lactation Consultant and 0:04:39.721 --> 0:04:43.481 there's an exam one hundred and seventy five questions, really 0:04:43.841 --> 0:04:48.281 full on. But it's an international certification gold standard, highest 0:04:48.921 --> 0:04:54.361 level for lactation. I guess education and support. But that's 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.481 there's no sort of governing body, that's just national. 0:04:57.961 --> 0:04:59.961 What did you have to do to become a prescribing 0:05:00.001 --> 0:05:00.921 registered midwife? 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.041 Got the hoops? I've done through back? 0:05:03.681 --> 0:05:05.880 God, isn't it when you become an advanced practice. 0:05:07.601 --> 0:05:11.281 Yeah, there's a lot I had to I think it 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:15.841 was at least five years experience in the full continuum 0:05:15.841 --> 0:05:21.600 of pregnancy, anti natal intrapartum, so through birth and post 0:05:21.641 --> 0:05:24.801 natal experience. I had to have evidence of that. I 0:05:24.841 --> 0:05:28.121 had to do a prescriber's course. I had to submit 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:33.320 what was like I felt like my life to APRA. 0:05:33.921 --> 0:05:36.241 I actually went into labor the next day after I 0:05:36.241 --> 0:05:38.121 submitted that, so I'm sure that was a surprised. It 0:05:38.201 --> 0:05:45.601 was pretty intense. Gosh, declarations or statements of service, all 0:05:46.041 --> 0:05:49.320 the evidence. I think that's it. Gosh, I can't even remember. 0:05:49.561 --> 0:05:51.960 Was that through a university to do that or was 0:05:52.001 --> 0:05:53.121 it independent? 0:05:53.401 --> 0:05:58.561 So the prescribing course was through Griffith University. Everything else 0:05:58.721 --> 0:06:00.001 was through APRA. 0:06:00.361 --> 0:06:04.121 I tell you what I doing my NPS, my masters 0:06:04.521 --> 0:06:09.041 was one of the hardest things I have ever ever done. 0:06:09.201 --> 0:06:11.721 Yeah, you know, I know a few nps and it 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.241 sounds hectic. It is so. 0:06:14.361 --> 0:06:17.841 Hectic, And then you would have been exactly the same. 0:06:17.961 --> 0:06:20.041 When we put out my application in to be an 0:06:20.161 --> 0:06:25.681 endorsed Nurse practitioner. I'm not joking. It was novel, a novel, yeah, 0:06:26.281 --> 0:06:30.521 and I had collected everything. Oh my god, it just 0:06:30.721 --> 0:06:33.321 was And you know, I was really blessed. I was 0:06:33.561 --> 0:06:36.041 accepted really quickly because I think I had so they 0:06:36.081 --> 0:06:38.561 probably looked at it and went, oh my god, let's just tick, 0:06:38.641 --> 0:06:42.761 She's got enough stuff. But it was a tome And 0:06:42.841 --> 0:06:45.721 I know so many nurses now that have done their 0:06:45.801 --> 0:06:49.121 masters and haven't been endorsed. Yeah. Wow, just because you 0:06:49.161 --> 0:06:52.281 do your masters as a nurse practitioner doesn't mean you 0:06:52.281 --> 0:06:54.121 become an endorsed nurse practitioner. 0:06:54.601 --> 0:06:57.760 It really was a gathering of evidence. Yeah, like right 0:06:57.841 --> 0:07:02.640 through to submitting a philosophy of Midway three, you know. 0:07:02.921 --> 0:07:05.841 And as much as it was time can assuming, I'm 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.001 sure you probably feel the same like it's so time consuming, 0:07:09.041 --> 0:07:12.841 but it really helps. It really helped me reflect and 0:07:13.001 --> 0:07:17.801 know the why behind what I do, why I do it, 0:07:19.001 --> 0:07:22.721 where I was going. So yeah, it was great even 0:07:22.801 --> 0:07:24.921 though it took heaps of energy. 0:07:25.201 --> 0:07:28.441 It does, it really does. I had to as part 0:07:28.441 --> 0:07:32.361 of my MPs because I was dermatology focused. I did 0:07:32.401 --> 0:07:36.241 a couple of subjects with the Masters of Medicine Skin 0:07:36.321 --> 0:07:39.801 Cancer course and it would have to have been the 0:07:39.841 --> 0:07:42.281 hardest subject I've ever done in my life and we 0:07:42.321 --> 0:07:44.521 had to pass by eighty percent, had to pass the 0:07:44.561 --> 0:07:48.081 exam by eighty percent. It was stressful. I was the 0:07:48.121 --> 0:07:52.321 only nurse in that cohort doing that sub or a 0:07:52.361 --> 0:07:56.081 couple of those subjects. There were twenty five of us 0:07:56.121 --> 0:07:59.881 that started. Seventeen of us passed, and I was really poopooed, 0:08:00.361 --> 0:08:02.241 Like I was given a bit of a hard time 0:08:02.361 --> 0:08:05.561 online because I was a nurse doing the course, but 0:08:05.641 --> 0:08:08.641 I was one of the only ones that passed, and 0:08:09.441 --> 0:08:13.201 probably passing that, I had far more satisfaction than with 0:08:13.321 --> 0:08:17.241 anything else. And it was because, you know, climbed mountain 0:08:17.281 --> 0:08:20.961 to get that, and you know, I had been there 0:08:21.041 --> 0:08:23.321 was a bit of online bullying towards me being ans 0:08:24.001 --> 0:08:27.121 and not being a doctor doing those courses, so it 0:08:27.201 --> 0:08:29.881 felt pretty good, too good on you to pass that 0:08:30.001 --> 0:08:33.081 at the level I passed it. So I do get 0:08:33.241 --> 0:08:35.521 the you know, it's a lot of work, a lot 0:08:35.521 --> 0:08:37.641 of hoops to jump through, and when you get to 0:08:37.721 --> 0:08:40.441 the end, it is really worth it totally. 0:08:40.641 --> 0:08:44.281 And you know, it's so beneficial to me now because 0:08:44.401 --> 0:08:48.881 I wear two hats as a private practice midwife and 0:08:48.961 --> 0:08:54.441 lactation consultant, and because I have the ability to give 0:08:54.481 --> 0:08:57.881 Medicare rebates in the first six weeks as a post 0:08:57.961 --> 0:09:05.241 natal console that also involves lactation, I'm cost effective, so 0:09:05.321 --> 0:09:07.641 it's excellent for the women. 0:09:08.041 --> 0:09:12.521 So with your Medicare rebate, how much is it like 0:09:12.561 --> 0:09:14.801 it is for us withness practitioners as a consult like 0:09:14.961 --> 0:09:17.881 the first one, it's forty plus minutes and we get 0:09:17.921 --> 0:09:18.921 fifty seven dollars. 0:09:19.201 --> 0:09:24.481 Yeah, it's short or long post natally and anti natally. 0:09:24.561 --> 0:09:27.401 There's a different price for short and long. I think 0:09:28.041 --> 0:09:32.041 long is over forty minutes. All my consults are hours, 0:09:32.281 --> 0:09:36.601 and I think it's currently like seventy six okay, rebate 0:09:36.761 --> 0:09:38.441 for the long, so it's good. 0:09:38.681 --> 0:09:40.121 Do you do charge a gap? 0:09:40.561 --> 0:09:43.881 Definitely? Yeah, Like I couldn't run a business just bolt build. 0:09:43.961 --> 0:09:47.081 I have tried through COVID, I did, and thankfully the 0:09:47.121 --> 0:09:49.681 rebates have actually gone up for women. But I do 0:09:49.801 --> 0:09:53.761 set my prices with the rebate going back to the 0:09:53.761 --> 0:09:58.841 women so comparable for lactation consultants without Medicare rebates because 0:09:58.881 --> 0:10:03.921 there's no Medicare rebates for lactation consultancy at all, none, 0:10:04.041 --> 0:10:07.521 which is crazy. But you know, there's lots of crazy 0:10:07.801 --> 0:10:08.801 in the post natal world. 0:10:09.641 --> 0:10:12.921 There's lots of crazy in health period, and it is 0:10:12.961 --> 0:10:16.481 getting it is getting crazier. I have to say, yeah, 0:10:16.641 --> 0:10:19.401 particularly since COVID. And it's interesting you say that because 0:10:20.521 --> 0:10:23.121 I did a lot of online consulting and it was 0:10:23.161 --> 0:10:25.601 all bol Build because I had to shut my clinic 0:10:25.681 --> 0:10:28.921 because it was you know, face to face as many dermatology. 0:10:29.641 --> 0:10:33.761 So I just was able to you know, pivot and 0:10:34.361 --> 0:10:37.121 you know everyone was having skin breakout, stress, that sort 0:10:37.161 --> 0:10:39.801 of thing. So that was great. It's able to do vaccinations. 0:10:40.281 --> 0:10:42.121 It was what like you and I only bolk build. 0:10:42.441 --> 0:10:44.001 Yeah, it was crazy time. 0:10:44.081 --> 0:10:46.641 It was crazy times. Do you work in the hospital 0:10:46.681 --> 0:10:49.801 at all now as a midwife, I don't, so full 0:10:49.801 --> 0:10:50.841 time in your own business. 0:10:51.641 --> 0:10:54.121 Oh I love hearing that. That's so awesome. 0:10:55.241 --> 0:11:00.241 And the majority of your work now is lactation consultancy. 0:11:00.601 --> 0:11:05.201 Yeah, I do see women anti anti natally. Most to 0:11:05.281 --> 0:11:08.681 the women who find me anti Natalie have a story 0:11:08.961 --> 0:11:13.841 around lactation. They're planning a head so they'll basically debrief 0:11:14.081 --> 0:11:17.641 like a birth debrief, like previous birth trauma, and then 0:11:17.681 --> 0:11:20.481 we plan ahead and we journey together. I know it 0:11:20.521 --> 0:11:24.601 sounds silly, but it's exactly what we do. And yeah, 0:11:24.641 --> 0:11:27.161 most of the people see me most Natalie. So it 0:11:27.201 --> 0:11:31.441 could be a real acute sort of urgent consult we 0:11:31.481 --> 0:11:34.641 pretty much need an emergency department for breastfeeding, or it 0:11:34.721 --> 0:11:37.481 could be someone who's you know, are not in an 0:11:37.601 --> 0:11:38.361 urgent situation. 0:11:39.401 --> 0:11:42.721 How many of the women you see, do you think 0:11:42.801 --> 0:11:46.561 have had some form of trauma with first Bobby. 0:11:46.961 --> 0:11:51.001 I guess there's so many versions of trauma, But in 0:11:51.121 --> 0:11:58.001 terms of their journey and finding their own voice as 0:11:58.001 --> 0:12:05.361 a mum and knowing how to trust themselves, most would 0:12:05.481 --> 0:12:10.241 have some version of a tough time. Maybe not trauma, 0:12:10.361 --> 0:12:13.441 A lot of trauma a lot, but yeah, a lot 0:12:13.441 --> 0:12:16.721 of tough times because of how they're treated in the system, 0:12:16.761 --> 0:12:19.161 how they have to navigate. I call it an obstacle 0:12:19.281 --> 0:12:21.921 course to get to the other side of just knowing 0:12:23.041 --> 0:12:26.361 what they think and feel and their version of it 0:12:26.481 --> 0:12:29.761 is really valid and almost always or I would go 0:12:29.801 --> 0:12:34.081 as far as saying always right. They're always right. 0:12:34.441 --> 0:12:37.361 So they just didn't trust their art with that listened. 0:12:37.081 --> 0:12:39.401 To a lot of the time, a lot of the time. 0:12:39.601 --> 0:12:41.281 So why do you think that is. 0:12:42.121 --> 0:12:46.521 I think we have a lot of subliminal messages around 0:12:47.281 --> 0:12:52.121 self sacrificing as mothers. I think we don't even realize 0:12:52.281 --> 0:12:55.641 that as women. I see it on such a basic 0:12:55.721 --> 0:12:58.361 level where it's like a woman will come to me 0:12:58.521 --> 0:13:02.401 with absolutely shredded nipples. She's in so much pain, but 0:13:02.481 --> 0:13:04.881 she's gritting her teeth through it. She's she's doing it 0:13:04.921 --> 0:13:10.001 for baby, and you know, good on her, amazing, but 0:13:10.121 --> 0:13:14.801 also that or latch is going to affect her milk 0:13:14.841 --> 0:13:18.041 supply eventually, and that's going to be a problem for baby. 0:13:18.161 --> 0:13:21.721 Does that make sense? And if she knew that, that 0:13:21.801 --> 0:13:25.641 would be a catalyst for her to care about her experience, 0:13:26.641 --> 0:13:32.001 but she won't do it for herself. So getting the 0:13:32.041 --> 0:13:35.281 women I see to care about their own experience, because 0:13:35.921 --> 0:13:41.681 it inevitably ends up being important, is a massive part 0:13:41.721 --> 0:13:42.241 of my job. 0:13:42.601 --> 0:13:45.161 How do you get the message out to women that 0:13:45.961 --> 0:13:48.441 it's not normal to have nipples falling off your chest 0:13:48.481 --> 0:13:51.721 when you're breastfeeding, or trust your guard if you think 0:13:51.721 --> 0:13:55.161 there's something wrong with your baby, yeah, when Bobby's in utro, 0:13:55.521 --> 0:13:59.201 or you know, it's okay to ask the questions or 0:13:59.281 --> 0:14:02.961 get a second opinion, Like do we how do you 0:14:03.001 --> 0:14:04.801 go about educating. 0:14:04.481 --> 0:14:07.801 Women if I have an opportunity to see them antiinatally, 0:14:08.001 --> 0:14:13.001 we'll do a lot of talking about that. Certainly, you know, 0:14:13.121 --> 0:14:17.081 we will reflect on where they've been when they come 0:14:17.121 --> 0:14:19.761 to me and say, there's been a lot of people 0:14:20.201 --> 0:14:24.001 saying that looks like a good latch, and they're showing up, 0:14:24.081 --> 0:14:26.721 you know, in a lot of pain trying to latch. 0:14:26.801 --> 0:14:31.041 Then you know that is a conversation around why that 0:14:31.121 --> 0:14:35.161 matters beyond it just being for baby, It actually is 0:14:35.201 --> 0:14:38.681 important for her irrespective of her supply. How we get 0:14:38.681 --> 0:14:42.081 that message out is we support them so they know 0:14:42.121 --> 0:14:47.401 what's normal and that normal isn't meant to be. It's 0:14:47.441 --> 0:14:55.001 not easy. No one would say motherhood, pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding, parenting, 0:14:55.281 --> 0:14:58.361 the whole shebang. It's not easy, but it shouldn't be 0:14:59.161 --> 0:15:04.761 a self sacrificing journey. And I guess I'd really love 0:15:04.801 --> 0:15:11.081 to say the women mothers partners valuing what the work 0:15:11.161 --> 0:15:16.281 we do as mothers, because it is work. You know, 0:15:16.401 --> 0:15:21.241 it's a lot of hard work that goes into raising 0:15:22.001 --> 0:15:26.001 and providing and supporting and being present and doing the 0:15:26.041 --> 0:15:33.681 things that are required biologically even for our children. But yeah, 0:15:33.721 --> 0:15:36.681 having the space and the time and the value in 0:15:36.761 --> 0:15:39.761 the support network around it, whether it's the system or 0:15:39.881 --> 0:15:43.681 just the community, is essential. 0:15:44.241 --> 0:15:47.601 Do you think social media has been a good or 0:15:47.721 --> 0:15:51.401 bad thing for women's health in some aspects or for 0:15:51.481 --> 0:15:53.321 breastfeeding or do you think. 0:15:53.161 --> 0:15:55.201 It puts. 0:15:56.401 --> 0:16:00.961 Pressure on mothers. I know I've had many moms come 0:16:01.001 --> 0:16:06.561 into the clinic, you know, in tears or going, oh 0:16:06.601 --> 0:16:09.001 my god, you know this so and so's posted this 0:16:09.081 --> 0:16:13.521 perfect lunch box on Instagram, you know, and you know, 0:16:13.561 --> 0:16:15.521 put a little note in it and da da da. Now, 0:16:15.601 --> 0:16:19.401 I know there were sometimes where my kids were lucky 0:16:19.441 --> 0:16:21.281 to have lunch, or I just threw five bucks at 0:16:21.281 --> 0:16:22.841 them as if for God say go get touch shop. 0:16:23.681 --> 0:16:26.761 When I was working and starting a business and doing 0:16:26.841 --> 0:16:28.801 you know, all that sort of thing, and there was 0:16:28.881 --> 0:16:32.481 huge guilt around that, but there was no social media 0:16:32.521 --> 0:16:34.481 at that stage, so I didn't have to compare myself 0:16:34.521 --> 0:16:38.561 to anybody else. Yeah, do you think that impacts mothers? Now? 0:16:38.561 --> 0:16:39.521 Did they talk about that? 0:16:39.881 --> 0:16:47.441 I think there's I think it's such a grief when 0:16:47.481 --> 0:16:52.161 they feel they should breastfeed and they feel social pressure too, 0:16:52.481 --> 0:16:57.601 and for whatever reason they can't. It's enormous and so 0:16:57.761 --> 0:17:02.761 much unnecessary shame. I see some women navigate all of that. 0:17:03.401 --> 0:17:07.161 I think social media is rble for it. World Breastfeeding Week. 0:17:07.241 --> 0:17:11.840 Ask anyone who's ever had breastfeeding challenges how triggering that 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.601 week is. It's awful, but that's the world we live 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.721 in as well. You know, there's no one size fits all. 0:17:19.921 --> 0:17:23.520 I think social media is just a bit toxic in 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.240 many ways, but hey, I'm on it and it's not 0:17:26.441 --> 0:17:30.001 you know, we've just got to go go into that 0:17:30.241 --> 0:17:33.121 just so carefully when we're vulnerable. But yeah, I think 0:17:33.120 --> 0:17:37.080 the messaging around motherhood and the shoulds and all of 0:17:37.120 --> 0:17:40.840 that really doesn't have good foundations of support. I think 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:46.281 some of the information that's on there is misinformation, totally, totally. Yeah, absolutely, 0:17:46.681 --> 0:17:51.241 the Pinterest version of motherhood just doesn't exist. It's awful, 0:17:51.521 --> 0:17:53.961 and I think, like I said, it's a bit of 0:17:54.001 --> 0:17:57.561 an obstacle course, it really is. Some women, I'd say 0:17:57.561 --> 0:17:59.840 they're almost set up to fail in the system because 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:03.640 there's just no continuity of care post natally. You know, 0:18:03.721 --> 0:18:07.960 we kind of have this normalized system of continuity of 0:18:08.041 --> 0:18:11.880 care through pregnancy and birth if women choose it, which 0:18:12.321 --> 0:18:16.121 research would say it's gold standard, that's got all these 0:18:16.241 --> 0:18:20.240 understood benefits. But post Natalie, you've got to six weeks 0:18:20.241 --> 0:18:22.920 with someone that you trust, that knows your journey, and 0:18:22.961 --> 0:18:26.601 then it's like good luck, and it's just begun. 0:18:26.961 --> 0:18:29.321 Like, yeah, that's just because it's long. 0:18:29.761 --> 0:18:33.440 It's a long road ahead, and yeah, some of the 0:18:33.521 --> 0:18:34.761 issues are just starting. 0:18:34.961 --> 0:18:40.440 So when I had my son at the marta easy 0:18:40.441 --> 0:18:45.281 delivery two weeks in breastfed like a champion. Two weeks 0:18:45.281 --> 0:18:49.680 in he stopped feeding. We had a month in hospital 0:18:49.921 --> 0:18:55.120 the Marter Private Children's would he was nato gastrically fed. 0:18:55.880 --> 0:19:00.761 Then they took the tube out and he started nuzzling, 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:04.081 so we got electation consultant in because I still had 0:19:04.721 --> 0:19:07.920 milk at the stage. Nuzzled for a bit and then 0:19:07.921 --> 0:19:12.200 stopped feeding again, so then was nose gastricly bed again. 0:19:12.721 --> 0:19:15.120 And this sort of went on and off for twelve months. 0:19:15.360 --> 0:19:17.600 The kid didn't sleep for three years. And when I 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.160 say that he didn't sleep, I'm actually I believe him. 0:19:20.201 --> 0:19:22.360 I'm not exaggerating. He did not sleep. It was easy 0:19:22.360 --> 0:19:23.961 for me to go to a night duty and it 0:19:24.001 --> 0:19:28.080 was for him. I remember one morning I just was 0:19:28.120 --> 0:19:30.001 at the end of my tether and I went down 0:19:30.041 --> 0:19:32.481 to the Maternal and Child Health Center at win Them 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:37.160 even before it opened with this kid screaming and sat 0:19:37.281 --> 0:19:42.041 on the doorstep far out crying like I was a mess. 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:46.080 I hadn't slept. I had a kid that just wouldn't eat, 0:19:46.521 --> 0:19:49.120 didn't a drink. No one knew it was wrong with him. 0:19:49.801 --> 0:19:53.561 The numerous tests, one stage they thought he had neurological problems. 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.321 They just no one knew it's a big deal. So 0:19:56.961 --> 0:20:00.761 back then losek could just come onto the market. That's 0:20:00.761 --> 0:20:03.121 all they could think. It was was this silent reflux. 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.520 It was really bad, but they they couldn't see it. 0:20:06.801 --> 0:20:07.961 So I used to have to give my half a 0:20:07.961 --> 0:20:12.921 tablet low second and liquefiret in water and squirted down 0:20:12.921 --> 0:20:15.281 the back of his threat. It was horrendous and look, 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.761 that helped a bit, but not really, so I ended up. 0:20:19.120 --> 0:20:22.521 I begged to go into Riverton and I said to her, 0:20:22.761 --> 0:20:25.481 you gotta do something now, I'm a donkey on the edge. 0:20:25.481 --> 0:20:28.520 And I was. I was a donkey on the edge, 0:20:29.201 --> 0:20:32.561 and they put me in for a week. The first 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.600 twenty four hours I just slept and they looked after Jacob. 0:20:35.681 --> 0:20:37.961 But even after a week there they could not get 0:20:37.961 --> 0:20:40.760 that kid. They were able to get him to sleep 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:44.201 during the day, at least for a couple of hours. 0:20:44.241 --> 0:20:47.601 So my whole day was around getting my two year 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:52.360 old to sleep or eighteen months to sleep at the 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:55.480 same time as Jacob, so I could lie down and 0:20:55.561 --> 0:20:57.360 have a rest in the middle of the day. And 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:02.200 if that didn't happen, it was horrendous. But what was 0:21:02.321 --> 0:21:06.840 interesting during that time, so many people going, well, you 0:21:06.961 --> 0:21:09.920 doing this wrong, and you're doing that wrong, and you 0:21:10.001 --> 0:21:11.920 just need to let him cry it out and you 0:21:12.041 --> 0:21:15.080 just need to do this. And you know, it was 0:21:15.120 --> 0:21:17.600 the most horrendous time. And I look back now and 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.001 there's no doubt in my mind I've probably had postnatal depression. 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:22.640 Who wouldn't. 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:26.321 He's the most beautiful, beautiful young man now. But I 0:21:26.441 --> 0:21:27.721 tell you what, I could have thrown him in the 0:21:27.761 --> 0:21:31.880 rubbish bin. And I think about all those women who 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:35.281 don't have support and who don't know where to turn. 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.281 And I mean, are there places like Riverton still. 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:43.161 Yeah, there's support, but that fact that's horrendous. 0:21:43.441 --> 0:21:44.401 It was horrendous. 0:21:44.681 --> 0:21:46.561 What changed did he get? 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:51.600 I had to feed him solids literally from three months 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:57.001 of age. We just started to introduce solids after he 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:01.400 stopped being nooser gastrictly fed. Yeah. Wow, And that in 0:22:01.441 --> 0:22:05.600 itself was problematic, and that in itself paused huge comments 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.680 from people that just should have minded their own business. 0:22:09.201 --> 0:22:12.281 But you know, I had to take medication to dry 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:16.121 my milk up. It was just awful. 0:22:16.721 --> 0:22:18.001 That's really full on. 0:22:18.281 --> 0:22:22.961 It was awful. And I think about other women, and 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:25.841 I just go, wow, you know, I had support. 0:22:26.241 --> 0:22:30.640 Yeah, and look, it's to really diverse how complicated things 0:22:30.681 --> 0:22:35.801 can get. That's refect, But yeah, I see a lot 0:22:36.041 --> 0:22:41.600 of really complex cases and it's tough when you're you know, 0:22:42.801 --> 0:22:46.680 babies are born to breastfeed, right, so if there's an 0:22:46.721 --> 0:22:49.761 issue with that, it's like I like to put my 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:54.921 detective glasses on and be figuring out the why behind it, 0:22:55.321 --> 0:22:58.281 you know, like your story, I'm just like, why, Jacob, 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:03.840 what was going on there? You know? But unfortunately we're 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:05.960 not all singing from the same hymn sheet. So you 0:23:06.001 --> 0:23:12.840 can have support, but your caliber of understanding biological norms 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:18.041 and breastfeeding so you know, it is completely different from 0:23:18.360 --> 0:23:21.960 health care provider to health care provider. So a pediatrician, 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:26.441 a midwi flactation consultant is going to all have completely 0:23:26.441 --> 0:23:30.721 different lenses on a tricky case of diad, a mother 0:23:30.801 --> 0:23:34.280 baby diad, And it's hard because it means you end 0:23:34.360 --> 0:23:40.600 up with conflicting advice and it's just a mind field 0:23:40.801 --> 0:23:43.321 for the poor mom that's trying to listen to her 0:23:43.360 --> 0:23:49.001 intuition while just desperately do whatever for their baby. The 0:23:50.840 --> 0:23:55.440 most vulnerable you'll ever be is then Oh my god, yes, 0:23:55.880 --> 0:23:56.521 it's full on. 0:23:56.681 --> 0:23:58.561 It is so full on. And you know, the one 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:01.561 thing I remember from that is this is why I 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:03.041 say to people who are bored or don't know what 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:06.160 to do, go, do you go and volunteer some time 0:24:07.120 --> 0:24:11.600 at a hospital or natal center or birthing center or somewhere. 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:13.561 Because there used to be this lovely man that used 0:24:13.600 --> 0:24:16.240 to older gentlemen that used to come in and he 0:24:16.281 --> 0:24:18.521 would sit with Jacob so I could go and have 0:24:18.561 --> 0:24:21.001 a shower because Jason was working and he also had Chloe. 0:24:21.241 --> 0:24:24.041 My parents were running a farm. Jason's parents were away 0:24:24.201 --> 0:24:28.361 like everyone had stuff on, you know, and he used 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:31.160 to come in and sit with Jacob so I could 0:24:31.321 --> 0:24:35.240 have a shower, go grab a coffee of five minutes 0:24:35.281 --> 0:24:39.321 to myself, and then come back up. And he I 0:24:39.321 --> 0:24:42.201