Speaker 1: Okay, I want to move on to NHRU.
Speaker 2: Prime Minister, this deal with the Naruan government for the
Speaker 2: cohort of asylum seekers that you haven't been able to
Speaker 2: do much with out.
Speaker 3: Of the Let's start with this deal that was signed
Speaker 3: between Australia and NARU. What do we know about it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we first heard about this deal through a
Speaker 1: post on the Home Affairs website about a week ago.
Speaker 1: It was late on a Friday night, basically just saying
Speaker 1: that the Home Affairs Minister had been over there had
Speaker 1: signed a deal that will involve Australia paying Nharu a
Speaker 1: sum of money in exchange for a group of asylum
Speaker 1: seekers that are currently in Australia receiving thirty year visas
Speaker 1: to go live and stay live in the community in Nuru.
Speaker 1: So at the time when it was announced, we didn't
Speaker 1: have a whole lot of information about it. The actual deal,
Speaker 1: the memorandum understanding wasn't revealed to the public and we
Speaker 1: saw kind of ministers and the Prime Minister batting away
Speaker 1: questions about it.
Speaker 2: Why so much secrecy around that deal?
Speaker 4: Toadley's secret. You're just asking me about it on national deal?
Speaker 2: You know I will contest that there was no release
Speaker 2: put out. It was quite little website. Well, well, okay,
Speaker 2: it was out there, and it was wasn't easy to find.
Speaker 1: Albanezy was asked about and kind of just talked about
Speaker 1: complexities and details without revealing much.
Speaker 4: There's complexities and detail here, including the number of people
Speaker 4: who go. There's arrange or provisions as part of.
Speaker 1: It, particularly in terms of how many people were going
Speaker 1: to be taken by NRU.
Speaker 2: So do they get the four hundred million even if
Speaker 2: they take no asylum seekers?
Speaker 4: There are arrangements in place, Patricia, And we have an
Speaker 4: arrangement between.
Speaker 1: How the payments would actually work and whether the payments
Speaker 1: were kind of based on how many people were there.
Speaker 2: Like does it just keep going or is it a timeframe?
Speaker 4: No, it doesn't, Patricia. And it's an arrangement between our
Speaker 4: government and the No Rule government.
Speaker 2: But will you make the details of the payments clear
Speaker 2: for how long they get seventy million a year?
Speaker 4: It's an arrangement between It's not government and No Rule
Speaker 4: government and it's.
Speaker 1: And then we found a lot more information at a
Speaker 1: send inquiry last week that revealed the actual financial cost
Speaker 1: of this deal. So we found out there's an upfront
Speaker 1: payment that's going to be more than four hundred million
Speaker 1: dollars going to NAURU once the first person is deported
Speaker 1: from Australia to NAHRU, and then also payments of up
Speaker 1: to seventy million dollars per year after that. So the
Speaker 1: whole deal over the thirty years is worth potentially two
Speaker 1: point five billion dollars. There's huge amounts of money going
Speaker 1: towards NARU in order to take some people from Australia
Speaker 1: on thirty of visas.
Speaker 3: Prominence to Anthony Albanezi insists the government's deal with the
Speaker 3: RUE wasn't secret, even though key details only emerged after
Speaker 3: it was signed. At the same time, Parliament has passed
Speaker 3: laws to speed up the path to sending people off shore,
Speaker 3: stripping them of their fundamental rights and protections during the
Speaker 3: deportation process. I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven
Speaker 3: AM today Stenham Sadler and the former immigration detainees Australia
Speaker 3: is desperate to deport and whether offloading into n RU
Speaker 3: is a breach of our legal obligations. It's Monday, September eighth.
Speaker 3: Can you tell me more about the group that this
Speaker 3: arrangement is targeted at. This is a group of former
Speaker 3: immigration detornees that were released in the community in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty three year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this stems back to the High Court decision
Speaker 1: from November twenty twenty three, so is the n z
Speaker 1: YQ case.
Speaker 4: The High Court has tonight revealed all seven of its
Speaker 4: judges agreed in definite immigration detention is unlawful.
Speaker 5: They're surprised to see, yew.
Speaker 1: These are people that were in immigration tension, but they
Speaker 1: were never actually going to go back to their home countries,
Speaker 1: so they were basically in indefinite detention and it was
Speaker 1: ruled that Australia can't do that, so they have to
Speaker 1: be released.
Speaker 5: Over thirty five pages ruling imprisonment was penal or punitive
Speaker 5: that could only be used by courts a judging and
Speaker 5: punishing criminal guilt, claiming detention pending removal was legal as
Speaker 5: long as removal through deportation was possible.
Speaker 1: So I think all up, there's about three hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty people that are caught up in that group, and
Speaker 1: basically over nearly the last two years, it's been a
Speaker 1: huge political problem more than anything for the government. The
Speaker 1: oppositions kind of targeted a lot and blamed the government
Speaker 1: for these people being out in the community. And there's
Speaker 1: been a lot of rhetoric around the danger of these
Speaker 1: people being out in the community and I think the
Speaker 1: fear that if any further crimes happen that it'll be
Speaker 1: blamed on the government too.
Speaker 6: The Opposition is calling on the Prime Minister to sack
Speaker 6: his Immigration minister immediately following revelations he was warned about
Speaker 6: a controversial direction that has allowed foreign born criminals to
Speaker 6: stay in Australia.
Speaker 2: Anthony Albaneze needs to stop running a protection racket for
Speaker 2: Minister Giles and to start protecting.
Speaker 1: The Australia because what he is doing to Australia is
Speaker 1: quite quite scary, and that's why the Prime Minister should
Speaker 1: show leadership and second.
Speaker 4: But he's not and I think that is but I.
Speaker 1: Think it is important to note not all of them
Speaker 1: have done crimes as well, but the people that have
Speaker 1: served a full prison sentence, if they were Australian citizens,
Speaker 1: they'd be in the community like normal and people are
Speaker 1: released every day for similar crimes normally, and it's not
Speaker 1: a big political issue. The only different thing here is
Speaker 1: these people are non citizens.
Speaker 3: You mentioned last week DNA that we learned a bit
Speaker 3: more about the arrangement when Home Affairs officials appeared before
Speaker 3: a Senate committee. Particularly, we learn a fir bit about
Speaker 3: the price tag. What are the questions did they face.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of kind of questions about the
Speaker 1: amounts of people that would be accepted, and part of
Speaker 1: the deal was nu taking everyone in this cohort, and
Speaker 1: it was kind of a real that it's not it's
Speaker 1: still kind of neuru's discretion to issue these visas to people,
Speaker 1: so it's not necessarily going to take that whole cohort.
Speaker 1: The memorandum of understanding that was signed last week YEP specified.
Speaker 6: The number of individuals.
Speaker 5: It is an agreement pursuant to the provision in the
Speaker 5: Act to consider.
Speaker 7: Applications from the Australian Government for people in this cohort,
Speaker 7: and for NAURU to grant visas pursuant to that based
Speaker 7: on their decision about whether they would. So there's no figure,
Speaker 7: so they could take zero, they could right.
Speaker 1: You found out a bit about how the payments will work.
Speaker 1: That was obviously the big question, and I think people
Speaker 1: were very shocked to find out it can be up
Speaker 1: to two point five billion dollars. You kind of had
Speaker 1: David Pocock saying it was bonkers.
Speaker 3: Just like, I just want you to know, like the
Speaker 3: people out there, this sounds totally bonkers, right, like nuts.
Speaker 4: Like this is an extraordinary amount money.
Speaker 5: We all know it's expensive to house people, but I.
Speaker 1: Think people genuinely really surprised that it was this much
Speaker 1: money going to this very tiny nation to take a
Speaker 1: group of people that is about kind of yeah, three
Speaker 1: hundred people, And often it is the finalantial side that
Speaker 1: gets across people more than the human element. There's a
Speaker 1: very real human element here. But I think getting that
Speaker 1: figure has helped people be a bit more outraged by
Speaker 1: it than they were just when we found out there
Speaker 1: was a deal in place.
Speaker 3: And this deal is being paired with new legislation that
Speaker 3: expands Australia's deportation powers. Those laws passed the set at
Speaker 3: the end of last week. So what exactly do these
Speaker 3: new powers entail and how do they relate to this
Speaker 3: new arrangement with the route.
Speaker 1: Therese are pretty extraordinary new powers, and that legislation that
Speaker 1: recently pass serves to constrict the rights to natural justice
Speaker 1: to this group of people in Australia, which is basic
Speaker 1: rights in the criminal justice system that have been taken
Speaker 1: away from these people. This horrific, monstrous bill.
Speaker 2: You've never seen us people of color, migrants of color
Speaker 2: as equals.
Speaker 1: There's been huge backlash from a range of human rights groups,
Speaker 1: refugee advocates, and legal organizations about this plan to deport
Speaker 1: people and around the stripping of these really basic and
Speaker 1: fundamental rights.
Speaker 7: Australia's immigration regime is so brutal that even Trump points
Speaker 7: to it and said that's a good idea, we should
Speaker 7: do that too.
Speaker 1: There's concerns around these powers the government have given themselves to.
Speaker 1: You can be deported based on a decision that was wrong,
Speaker 1: and then the pact government has the power to kind
Speaker 1: of overall that, and they've taken away all your avenue
Speaker 1: to appeal as well. The government have kind of justified
Speaker 1: by saying that a lot of people are using procedural
Speaker 1: fairness to kind of slow the process. I think these
Speaker 1: exact words was kind of to frustrate their removal, to
Speaker 1: delay things, and I think the government has been frustrated
Speaker 1: by court proceedings around this. But that's also how it's
Speaker 1: meant to be functioning. So it's a lot of people
Speaker 1: being removed these basic rights to kind of speed up
Speaker 1: the process, I think is basically the aim, and to
Speaker 1: get people out of Australia as quickly as possible.
Speaker 3: So what's the problem that the government is trying to
Speaker 3: solve for you? I mean, what do they think the
Speaker 3: process needs to be split up and that essentially these
Speaker 3: groups should have their legal rights denied. It's pretty extreme.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's just basically been that political problem
Speaker 1: that they've had since these people were ordered to be
Speaker 1: released by the High Court's kept popping up every time
Speaker 1: there has been another crime committed by someone that was
Speaker 1: released as part of that decision. It's become another political
Speaker 1: issue and it's just not going away. And I've tried
Speaker 1: it's almost been a bit of kind of a whack
Speaker 1: a mole game with the courts. They've tried a few
Speaker 1: other things. They've tried electronic monitoring, they've tried getting people
Speaker 1: back in immigration detention, and it keeps either getting knocked
Speaker 1: back or stalled by the courts. So I think they're
Speaker 1: just looking a way to really completely wash the hands
Speaker 1: of these people and this issue and send them off
Speaker 1: to another country. Actually on visas, So it's really out
Speaker 1: of Australia's hands.
Speaker 3: Coming up what life on Naru will look like for
Speaker 3: this group. And you've been reporting on australia official immigration
Speaker 3: detension for some time there and you've examined what life
Speaker 3: is actually like on l Arue for this group who
Speaker 3: will be sent there. They will have visas, the right
Speaker 3: to work, freedom of movement. So what can you tell
Speaker 3: me about what life might be like once they arrive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Nuru is a tiny nation. It's about twelve
Speaker 1: thousand people, and there's a lot of poverty and the
Speaker 1: cost of living is extremely high. Basic bedgears, bottled water
Speaker 1: is very expensive. It's not an easy place to live.
Speaker 1: So there still are about one hundred asylum seekers in
Speaker 1: offshore processing on Naru at the moment, and they obviously
Speaker 1: are under different conditions, and this cohort will be they
Speaker 1: don't have the right to work and other rights like that.
Speaker 1: But I'm in contact with some of those people and yeah,
Speaker 1: they just describe it extremely hard to get buy over there,
Speaker 1: and a lot of them are going without three meals
Speaker 1: a day. And they also say that people are very
Speaker 1: aware of what's happening with this deal. They're aware of
Speaker 1: who these people are and who the government have kind
Speaker 1: of described them as being too. Obviously, a big part
Speaker 1: of this is these people being described as dangerous and appalling,
Speaker 1: and there are people in the script that haven't even
Speaker 1: committed a crime, but there's been a lot of rehtric
Speaker 1: about just how dangerous they are. And now you're kind
Speaker 1: of sending them off to a very small country to
Speaker 1: just live amongst the community. You can see a lot
Speaker 1: of issues with that, and issues with finding work as
Speaker 1: well to survive when you've kind of been described like
Speaker 1: that by the big government nearby. Can see a lot
Speaker 1: of issues around that.
Speaker 3: So what kind of support will they have once they
Speaker 3: arrive and in your estimation, does have the ability to
Speaker 3: support them?
Speaker 1: We don't know a lot of detail about the support
Speaker 1: on office, similar to a lot of things about this deal.
Speaker 1: We do know that some chunk of the payments Australia
Speaker 1: sending is going directly to the new government to support
Speaker 1: these people, but beyond that we don't know. There have
Speaker 1: been huge problems in the past with a lot of
Speaker 1: the huge amounts of money that are in the immigration
Speaker 1: detention system over there being misused and corruption issues, so
Speaker 1: there's always going to be ongoing concerns around that, and
Speaker 1: it's just a very low social economic country that will
Speaker 1: struggle with a new group. I think there's about one
Speaker 1: to four people in Nuru live below the basic needs
Speaker 1: poverty line. Already. Healthcare is a massive concern. There's have
Speaker 1: been ongoing issues in Australia with bringing people onto mainland
Speaker 1: Australia who need medical treatment, bringing asylumn seekers. There's not
Speaker 1: really established healthcare offerings there and I think there's already
Speaker 1: existing problems and you're bringing potentially hundreds of new people there.
Speaker 1: I think there's huge concerns about being able to support
Speaker 1: them properly.
Speaker 3: And what sort of questions does this phrase about Australia's
Speaker 3: obligations to these people. Australia won't resettle them, but they
Speaker 3: also can't return them to the country of origin for
Speaker 3: fear of being harmed. So do we still have a
Speaker 3: responsibility for their welfare even if Australia offloads them to
Speaker 3: a third country.
Speaker 1: I think it's a great question and I think it's
Speaker 1: one that will be tested because I think Australia will
Speaker 1: very much argue that they don't after this. I think
Speaker 1: they'll say they've satisfied their obligations by finding a new
Speaker 1: country for them to live in. They've on a visa
Speaker 1: for thirty years, they've got rights to work. But I
Speaker 1: think there's a very strong argument that Australia does have
Speaker 1: a responsibility. We forcibly sent them over to this very
Speaker 1: small nation. There is some obligation there, and it's as
Speaker 1: part of a deal where we're sending a lot of money.
Speaker 1: So I think there are going to be a lot
Speaker 1: of arguments that Australia does still have a very strong
Speaker 1: responsibility for their welfare. We're kind of following the rules
Speaker 1: around non refilment, so we can't send them back to
Speaker 1: a country they're going to face persecution, and that's why
Speaker 1: they found a fix in terms of Nuru and paying
Speaker 1: a country to take them. But I think that just
Speaker 1: raises massive questions about the responsibility of Australia, and I
Speaker 1: think they're quite likely to be tested in some way
Speaker 1: or another. I think it raises really important questions about
Speaker 1: the prison system as well. I think people and have
Speaker 1: served their prison sentence. Every day people are coming out
Speaker 1: of prison having done worse crimes, and a lot of
Speaker 1: people in this group and that scene is okay, but
Speaker 1: for some reason it's different, purely because these people come
Speaker 1: from different countries. So I think Australia has an obligation
Speaker 1: to help with the rehabilitation and reintegration sort of process
Speaker 1: with these people rather than just off showing them to
Speaker 1: a different country and washing our hands.
Speaker 3: Danim, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 1: Thanks having me.
Speaker 3: Also in the news, Victoria police say the stabbing deaths
Speaker 3: of two boys aged twelve and fifteen has all the
Speaker 3: hallmarks of a youth gang crime. The two children were
Speaker 3: found dead in cobble Banking, Malven's West over the weekend.
Speaker 3: Victoria Police say the alleged attackers fled the scene in
Speaker 3: a yet to be identified vehicle armed with machetes and
Speaker 3: edged weapons, and is urging anyone with information to come forward.
Speaker 3: And police in the UK have arrested hundreds of demonstrators
Speaker 3: over the weekend under Britain's anti terror legislation. More than
Speaker 3: four hundred people were arrested on Saturday at a rally
Speaker 3: in London in support of the activist group of Palestine Action,
Speaker 3: many over the age of sixty. It's the latest round
Speaker 3: of the tensions of supporters of the pro Palestine group
Speaker 3: since it was banned by the UK as a terrorist
Speaker 3: organization in July after some of its members broke into
Speaker 3: a Royal air Force base and damaged military planes. This
Speaker 3: has been seven am. Thanks for listening. We'll be back
Speaker 3: tomorrow