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Speaker 1: Appoja Production.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO series.

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Speaker 2: This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership.

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Speaker 3: Happy people create happy businesses.

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Speaker 2: True emotionally intelligent leadership. I picked up vomit once on

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Speaker 2: our about our fourth flight and everybody thought, well, if

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Speaker 2: it's good enough for him, I can do it Now.

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Speaker 1: We will be joined by culture and leadership.

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Speaker 2: Experts and some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us

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Speaker 2: the truth behind their brave leadership journeys. Today I'm joined

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Speaker 2: by David Hannam, who is the Chief Executive Officer of.

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Speaker 1: The Queensland Rugby Union Queens and Reds.

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Speaker 2: He's been with the organization for more than twenty years,

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Speaker 2: beginning in game development in two thousand and two and

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Speaker 2: rising through roles as General Manager, COO and Deputy CEO

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Speaker 2: before coming CEO in twenty eighteen. He steered the QRU

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Speaker 2: through major challenges including COVID, the Ballymore transformation, and preparing

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Speaker 2: queens and Rugby for a golden decade of World Cups

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Speaker 2: and the Brisban Olympic. So there's no secret, David, that

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Speaker 2: I love having brave conversations with people in sport.

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Speaker 1: So I'm very thrilled to have you here today. So welcome.

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Speaker 3: It's great to be here now.

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Speaker 4: I love what you're doing and I love the concept

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Speaker 4: of talking to people about their journey and what they've

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Speaker 4: achieved in life and also the challenges that come with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and do you know what the reason I invited

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Speaker 2: you on here is because obviously I went to Ballymore. Yes,

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Speaker 2: is pretty cool for a day sort of leadership event, and.

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Speaker 1: You got up and.

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Speaker 2: Spoke and I hear a lot of people speak, and

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Speaker 2: it was instantaneous for me.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I need to speak to this guy.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: I love people coming to Ballymore and experiencing who we are.

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Speaker 2: For someone who lives in Brisbane, I didn't even know

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Speaker 2: where that stadium was. Yeah, how is that tucked in

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Speaker 2: the suburbs at the back?

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Speaker 4: I know it's been there for fifty odd years. And

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Speaker 4: the beautiful press it is.

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Speaker 1: It had a great feeling to.

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Speaker 3: It, beautiful pricing.

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Speaker 4: I love when people come and see what it is

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Speaker 4: today because the journey of what it was didn't look

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Speaker 4: like yeah two or three years ago, So it represents

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Speaker 4: a lot of what we've done, where we are and

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Speaker 4: where we get to.

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Speaker 2: So there's something about stadiums that have been around a

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Speaker 2: long time, like there's just a thing about them, like

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Speaker 2: the feeling like you close your eyes you can imagine

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Speaker 2: crowds of people in different eras, wearing different clothing.

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Speaker 4: And it's a beautiful venue in the sense that it's

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Speaker 4: got the hill and the green space. Yes, but Ballymore,

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Speaker 4: I won't go into it because it'll be a first certainly,

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Speaker 4: are right. Everyone talks to me about Ballymore the experience,

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Speaker 4: not the games. They talk about meeting their girlfriends friends.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we'll touch more on Ballymore soon, but I wanted

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Speaker 2: to start off with the fact that we mentioned it

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Speaker 2: before we started, that your dad's from New Zealand. Yes,

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Speaker 2: obviously I'm a Kiwi. I can't hide it, and I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't want to. But I remember growing up in New

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Speaker 2: Zealand and rugby was everyone played rugby.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of a given.

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Speaker 2: So I know you went from New Zealand, but with

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Speaker 2: your dad coming here, was that kind of the standard too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Oh, look for me three older brothers, so I'm

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Speaker 4: the youngest of four. Dad lived in New Zealand until

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Speaker 4: he was twenty twenty one, came across he he was

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Speaker 4: a chippy, met mum and started his own commercial fit

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Speaker 4: out business. And I was the youngest of four, so

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Speaker 4: my brother's all played, and so I was a little

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Speaker 4: kid that was sitting on the sidelines waiting age one, two, three, four?

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Speaker 4: Can I play? Can I play? Can I play? So

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Speaker 4: I was destined Tory. There was not a choice. But

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Speaker 4: it was great. Dad passed earlier this year, and you know,

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Speaker 4: which was sad, but also a really nice moment because

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Speaker 4: I got to share that sort of final breath with

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Speaker 4: him when he was sitting there literally talking to him

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Speaker 4: about what happens next in his life. And Dad was

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Speaker 4: a very loyal man but also loved his rugby, but

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Speaker 4: didn't often speak about those things. But I just thought

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Speaker 4: it was a real gift that he was prepared to

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Speaker 4: open up in his final moment with me, and we

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Speaker 4: had a great chat about what life looks like beyond

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Speaker 4: this world and yeah, and he really opened up, and

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Speaker 4: I thought it was a special moment. And I remember

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Speaker 4: one of my brothers saying, you know, it must have

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Speaker 4: been difficult, and I said, actually, it was a gift,

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Speaker 4: Like I got to spend that moment with him, and

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Speaker 4: I think it gave the family a lot of comfort

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Speaker 4: that in his final moments his son was sitting beside him.

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Speaker 4: I remember when he passed. It was quite a spiritual

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Speaker 4: moment for me. Is it literally like he had his

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Speaker 4: last breath? And I remember just like I was looking

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Speaker 4: at my phone. I wasn't talking that much at that stage,

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Speaker 4: and I remember getting all these goosebumps run over me

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Speaker 4: and I looked up and he passed. So it was

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Speaker 4: a really special moment and one that, to be honest,

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Speaker 4: I had a lot of challenges around death and what

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Speaker 4: does it mean. And I think, you know, there was

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Speaker 4: a piece with it and sort of a comfort in

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Speaker 4: the transition of what happens now, and so it sort

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Speaker 4: of gave me a lot of comfort that he's in

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Speaker 4: a good space.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't expect you to say that off

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Speaker 2: the calf, if I'm honest. And the reason I'm a

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Speaker 2: little bit quiet there is just because so my mum

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Speaker 2: died when I was thirty five, and I was with

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Speaker 2: her when she passed. I don't know about you, I

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Speaker 2: remember her taking her last breath. It's almost like I

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Speaker 2: watched kind of her leave, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: Like I that real moment of life. This body's here,

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Speaker 2: but she wasn't. And it took me a while, but

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Speaker 2: I equally got to a place of just I had

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Speaker 2: great conversations with her, and you had this real realization

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Speaker 2: of what life you've got in front of you. And

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Speaker 2: she was only twenty eight years older than I was, right,

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Speaker 2: and so it was like what am I going to

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Speaker 2: do with.

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Speaker 1: These twenty eight years?

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Speaker 2: And also I also don't have a fear of death

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Speaker 2: because it's inevitable, it's coming.

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Speaker 1: So that just means you got to live more in

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Speaker 1: the moment, Like.

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Speaker 2: There's such perspectives since she passed away, and I have

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Speaker 2: often used the word it's been a gift, because I

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Speaker 2: don't think I would approach life the same way.

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Speaker 1: It'd be interesting for you what that gives for you.

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Speaker 3: Same, exactly the same feeling. You know.

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Speaker 4: The word you used is gift, the same as me,

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Speaker 4: you know, being part of that process. And what you

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Speaker 4: said about your mum is that you could actually see

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Speaker 4: the transition, you know, like there was People would talk

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Speaker 4: about it or people would say that until you've actually

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Speaker 4: lived it and seen it and experienced it actually Remember

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Speaker 4: I was at sun Corpse Stadium that day and rung

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Speaker 4: up my step mum and I said to her, look,

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Speaker 4: I might not be able to make it. She said, oh, look,

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Speaker 4: you know that's fine. Look coming tomorrow. And then I

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Speaker 4: just had this moment.

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Speaker 3: I was like, nah, I'm going in you know, don't you. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It was a special moment and one that will cherish.

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Speaker 4: But to your point, I think it gives you a

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Speaker 4: great appreciation of living, you know, and there's a transition,

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Speaker 4: so you've got to then value the time you've got.

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Speaker 4: And if that's a lesson that's come out of it,

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Speaker 4: on top of just being part of a special moment,

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Speaker 4: that's a good thing.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. I love that. I mean I had a

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Speaker 1: question around what did dad teach you?

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Speaker 2: But it sounds like Dad's taught your lesson, even the

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Speaker 2: slate in life that alone weld He probably taught you

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Speaker 2: when you were younger.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah he did.

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Speaker 4: And to me back to sort of my value set,

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Speaker 4: like Dad was always a very hard worker, worked hard

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Speaker 4: for the family and did a great job, led his

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Speaker 4: business really well, loved his kids, loved the sport, love

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Speaker 4: rugby that was his fifth kid, Rugby. But the values

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Speaker 4: of loyalty he was committed to supporting us as a family.

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Speaker 4: But also I think integrity is doing what he said

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Speaker 4: he was going to do. I think they're the two

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Speaker 4: things that stick out to me. And just his general

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Speaker 4: care for his kids. Just loved his kids, loved everything

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Speaker 4: about him. Would always be there for us, was always present,

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Speaker 4: like even at sport, you know, I know he loved rugby,

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Speaker 4: but he was always present. I remember speaking to a

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Speaker 4: lot of my mates in the last sort of ten

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Speaker 4: years about their parents, and one of their great regrets

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Speaker 4: is their parents were never really present at sport or

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Speaker 4: when they did activities, and I thought, jeez, I didn't

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Speaker 4: appreciate it until they mentioned to me. I thought, you

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Speaker 4: know what, I didn't take it for granted, but now

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Speaker 4: you highlight it.

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Speaker 3: It's so important.

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Speaker 4: Like god, you know, if you're not part of your

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Speaker 4: kid's life and you're not there to support them and

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Speaker 4: challenge them, what are you doing? So yeah, that was

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Speaker 4: the things that dad sort of taught me. But I

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Speaker 4: think sometimes when they pass you actually have time to reflect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know how you.

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Speaker 3: Did it with your mum.

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Speaker 4: You sort of think back and goa jeez, you know

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Speaker 4: what they did in their time was they had an impact.

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Speaker 2: I think that integrity with that financial thing because for

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Speaker 2: a lot of people that integrity. What I've siply learned

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Speaker 2: is being true to myself. I think that's the big one. Like,

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Speaker 2: am I having integrity with myself?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 2: I said I'm going to do something? Do I do

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Speaker 2: it even if no one else knows about it? That

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Speaker 2: self and one that people don't do.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you're spot on and I think that, Like, to me,

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Speaker 4: these words have got to have meaning. And to me,

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Speaker 4: a value is important. And you know when you've broken

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Speaker 4: your own values as it hurts. And also just sitting

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Speaker 4: down and defining what are your values? And you'll get there,

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Speaker 4: but you've just got to stop and actually think about it.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: That's self awareness what's important to you? Yeah, and then

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Speaker 4: how do you impart that to your children? Is an

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Speaker 4: important step.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of children, So it was rowing in school, right,

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Speaker 2: there was some kind of situation and rowing we did well.

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Speaker 1: My son, I feel lacks a lot of resilience.

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Speaker 2: And so when I was reading about you, so, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you had an event you were at you weren't doing

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Speaker 2: too well, but then you came back to win.

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Speaker 1: It was it something like that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So in at school in nineteen ninety eight, we

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Speaker 4: had the head of the river. So the way it

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Speaker 4: works in rowing is you've got eight or nine races

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Speaker 4: during the year. There's only one that matters, which is

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Speaker 4: the head of the river. Now, you can win every

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Speaker 4: other race, but that's the one that counts. And we'd

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Speaker 4: finished third or fourth all year, sort of sitting around

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Speaker 4: the middle of the pack. We got to the head

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Speaker 4: of the river race and we were plodding along. We're

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Speaker 4: about sort of four or five boats behind first, with

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Speaker 4: about a kilometer to go, and the cocks at the

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Speaker 4: time we had a race plan that about five hundred

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Speaker 4: meters out we'd sprint and we'd go as hard as

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Speaker 4: we can to win the race. And he looked at

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Speaker 4: me and he said, but we've got to go now.

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Speaker 4: It was about a kilometer to go because it's a

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Speaker 4: two kilometer race, and so we did, and anyway, we

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Speaker 4: got to the finish line and we won byero point

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Speaker 4: three six of a second. And to your point around resilience,

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Speaker 4: this is a really good lesson for me, and this

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Speaker 4: is where parenting is so important. In grade ten, I

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Speaker 4: wanted to quit, and this is where mum was outstanding.

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Speaker 4: She said no you're not. I said, I don't enjoy

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Speaker 4: it anymore. She said, no, you're going to keep going.

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Speaker 4: And I look back on that moment now and even

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Speaker 4: after the head of the river and think, you know what,

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Speaker 4: like that's great parenting. And then obviously rugby is my

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Speaker 4: main sport, but rowing, i'd encourage it because there's a

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Speaker 4: commitment from the parent and the kid with rain. Got

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Speaker 4: to get up early, you got to go to training,

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Speaker 4: got to do a whole range of activities. You've got

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Speaker 4: a full day on Saturday to go on race. But resilience,

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Speaker 4: like it teaches you to push beyond limits you've known

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Speaker 4: physically mentally. So that word resilience, I think for young

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Speaker 4: kids there's sports or activities you can do that is

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Speaker 4: absolutely one tell you once they do that, other things

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Speaker 4: will start to improve.

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Speaker 2: I mean secretly hoping my son isn't into rowing because

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Speaker 2: I don't want to get up for it.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: But I agree with you, Like I was wondering, like

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Speaker 2: where'd you get that from?

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Speaker 1: But you're right.

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Speaker 2: With my own kids, they start stuff and then they

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Speaker 2: said they're going to quit. My son started playing the

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Speaker 2: euphonium right a few years ago.

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Speaker 3: I mean your phone.

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Speaker 2: It's the world's largest like horn, trumpet combined. It was

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Speaker 2: just pretty cool. About two weeks and he was like,

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Speaker 2: ah no, And I was like, you signed up for

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Speaker 2: the year, yeah, to do it.

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Speaker 1: And I felt really.

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Speaker 2: Harsh of me, but I said to him, you make

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Speaker 2: a commitment at the end of the year and this season,

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Speaker 2: or you don't want to do it anymore. Yeah, fair enough,

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Speaker 2: you've made a fair assessment, but you have to push through.

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Speaker 2: So you're validating that. I thought I was being a

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Speaker 2: tough mum, but that sounds like that really set you

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Speaker 2: up for success.

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Speaker 3: Well did Yeah, And like you're right.

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Speaker 4: It's easy to sort of just accept oh, well you're tired,

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Speaker 4: you don't want to do it, but sometimes you just

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Speaker 4: got to. They're the lessons you've got to be taught.

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Speaker 2: So you were rowing, was it ever a professional rugby

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Speaker 2: career on the Cats?

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Speaker 4: So I played like all the rep footy through school

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Speaker 4: Queensland school Boys, Australia Under sixteen's and then got to

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Speaker 4: colts and senior footy down at East. I went to church,

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Speaker 4: he played rugby at East Rugby Club and then played

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Speaker 4: a lot of red foot and then I just got

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Speaker 4: to the point where I didn't lose the passion for rugby,

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Speaker 4: but the playing part of it wasn't a priority. And

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Speaker 4: I got a job actually at Each Rugby as a

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Speaker 4: development officer, and development officer's role is really to promote

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Speaker 4: the game young coaching young kids, boys and girls, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I transitioned into that and that sort of

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Speaker 4: became my pathway. But the step before that was when

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Speaker 4: I left school, I started an electrician apprenticeship because Dad said, hey,

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Speaker 4: would you like to join the business with the other boys.

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Speaker 4: I did it for two years. I absolutely hated it.

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Speaker 4: I got zapped three times, I fell through two ceilings.

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Speaker 4: I was like, laugh, it was like the sign of

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Speaker 4: the universe game, this is not for you. And I

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Speaker 4: remember doing a job back at Churchy at the time,

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Speaker 4: which was the school I went to, and I was

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Speaker 4: sitting there and there is a fifty year old electrician

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Speaker 4: just complaining about his job, going I hate my job,

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Speaker 4: and I'm like, I don't want to. I didn't say

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Speaker 4: it in my head. I was like, I don't want

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Speaker 4: to like you. And that was a hard discussion to

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Speaker 4: have with Dad because it was basically saying no, I

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Speaker 4: don't want to be part of the business, and he said, well,

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Speaker 4: what do you want to do, And I said, well,

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Speaker 4: I love rugby, I love sport. And then what I

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Speaker 4: learned then, which I didn't know at the time, but

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Speaker 4: my whole philosophy is have got to be purpose driven.

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Speaker 4: If I don't do something that drives my purpose I'm

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Speaker 4: passionate about, doesn't fit. So hence why I stayed in

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Speaker 4: sport and love what I do. And that might change

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Speaker 4: down the track, but I will thrive through purpose.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd heard you say that before, and I think

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Speaker 2: that's what it is about sport, right, Like you love it.

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Speaker 2: It's not like I like or it feeds you. It's

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Speaker 2: everything right, And I think that's often what creates that

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Speaker 2: drive in people.

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Speaker 3: And so it takes time to work that out. Year.

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Speaker 4: What you're doing here, it's purpose driven. You love it,

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Speaker 4: you're passionate about it. It gives you energy, you get

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Speaker 4: up in the morning, get excited to do it. You know,

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Speaker 4: if you're doing that, you're not working. You're living your life.

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Speaker 1: I know, And I know a lot of people sort

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Speaker 1: of say, oh, well.

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Speaker 2: That's all right for some people who find that, but

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Speaker 2: I think it's a point of I'm now in my

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Speaker 2: forties and like I left a corporate job and started

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Speaker 2: this in my late thirties. My advice to my younger

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Speaker 2: self would be find that purpose in your twenties. Find

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Speaker 2: the things that you love, because you can make lots

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Speaker 2: of mistakes in your twenties, right, and start again and

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Speaker 2: start again.

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Speaker 1: But you know, at the time, I remember being.

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Speaker 2: In my early twenties thinking I've got to be you know,

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Speaker 2: life had a timeline, like I've got to be at

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Speaker 2: a certain point by now, I should be doing this,

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Speaker 2: letting everything external kind of influence.

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Speaker 1: Whereas I'd say to any young person, find.

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Speaker 2: That purpose, then you'll end up in your thirties, forties,

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Speaker 2: fifties doing.

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Speaker 4: Something you absolutely love, love exactly right. And people say

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Speaker 4: it's the mindset. To me, which is what you've talked about,

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Speaker 4: is if you keep telling yourself that you can't do something,

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Speaker 4: if you keep telling yourself, I'll never find my purpose,

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Speaker 4: then you'll get what you tell yourself. I do think

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Speaker 4: that's an important piece about you know, how do you

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Speaker 4: find these things? Well, it's about sitting down and actually

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Speaker 4: looking at what is important to you. And I think

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Speaker 4: a lot of people just keep going and then suddenly

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Speaker 4: they wake up one day and go where am I,

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Speaker 4: which normally is you know, sometimes twenties to thirties, you

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Speaker 4: get to your forties and go is.

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Speaker 3: This really what I want to? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I still don't think it's too late for

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Speaker 2: anybody in the latest stage in life like change the direction. No,

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Speaker 2: I hardly agree, but you're going to dig a little

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Speaker 2: harder and sort of ignore the noise and all the

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Speaker 2: pressures of where you're supposed to be at that part

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Speaker 2: in your life.

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Speaker 1: So by making those choices earlier.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So when you're in that early early stages at ease,

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Speaker 2: did I read somewhere that someone gave you some really

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Speaker 2: harsh feedback maybe you went performing at your best?

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Speaker 4: Yes, tell me you've got that's good research for you.

361
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Speaker 4: So I was at ACE and I was development officer,

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Speaker 4: and I was in the job. I did it for

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Speaker 4: three or four years. Anyway, it was probably about a

364
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Speaker 4: year one and a half and I was just floating

365
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Speaker 4: along doing my thing, but not really performing. And the

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Speaker 4: general manager at the time, a guy called Adrian Thompson,

367
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Speaker 4: pulled me aside and said, look, mate, you've got to

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Speaker 4: get on with it. You're not performing and look if

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Speaker 4: you don't do it, you're going to lose your job.

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Speaker 4: And it was a great wake up cause, like it

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Speaker 4: was like a punch in the face. I was like,

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Speaker 4: that's a reality. And from that point forward, I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: I've got a choice to make here. I can keep

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Speaker 4: doing what I'm doing and get the same outcome, or

375
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Speaker 4: I can change my philosophy and dig in and start

376
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Speaker 4: to build what the role should have been. It was

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Speaker 4: a great lesson. It was the first time and probably

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Speaker 4: the last time, that I went, Okay, well I'm not

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Speaker 4: going to let that happen again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So there's no part of you that was

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Speaker 1: a bit like backing.

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Speaker 3: I was like, you know, that's sort of that stop.

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Speaker 4: If your first reaction could be defensive, yes, and at

384
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Speaker 4: that age I probably would have been. But then you

385
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Speaker 4: go away and reflect and go, you know what, it's

386
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Speaker 4: probably right. That's what I kind of learned, and it's

387
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Speaker 4: probably in the last six years it's really started to grow.

388
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Speaker 4: Was that you talked about self awareness. Such a great

389
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Speaker 4: skill is the right word, but it is like to

390
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Speaker 4: understand who you are, what's important to you, to know

391
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Speaker 4: when you're performing at your best, and to know when

392
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Speaker 4: you're not, and to be able to own it, own

393
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Speaker 4: it and accept the feedback and this and don't react

394
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Speaker 4: to it, just sit with it, actually sit with it,

395
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Speaker 4: sit with it and think about does that actually mean.

396
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Speaker 2: We instantly react to things just to better sit with

397
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Speaker 2: it and be like, maybe I don't even accept it

398
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Speaker 2: straight away, maybe it's going to take me a week

399
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Speaker 2: to accept it, but maybe there's something in that that I.

400
00:15:15,721 --> 00:15:17,121
Speaker 3: It's that balance of ego, isn't it.

401
00:15:17,281 --> 00:15:18,841
Speaker 4: The ego is the one that jumps in and puts

402
00:15:18,841 --> 00:15:21,481
Speaker 4: the shield up and says, na, well hold on, versus

403
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Speaker 4: just going okay, let me just take the time to

404
00:15:23,121 --> 00:15:25,721
Speaker 4: praicess what they've said. So that was a really important

405
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Speaker 4: moment for me and I reflect on that and thanks

406
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Speaker 4: to Adrian at the time being honest.

407
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Speaker 1: Are you like that as a leader?

408
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Speaker 3: Now?

409
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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's taken me time. And there's ways of delivering

410
00:15:34,441 --> 00:15:36,761
Speaker 4: messages that are different for different people. Yeah, it's not

411
00:15:36,881 --> 00:15:39,801
Speaker 4: their seventies and eighties with that tell people happen. Yeah,

412
00:15:40,001 --> 00:15:44,121
Speaker 4: so you know, being honest. Coming back to your value set, integrity,

413
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Speaker 4: do what I've said I'm going to do. I expect

414
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Speaker 4: when we talk about things, we get alignment and people deliver. Yeah,

415
00:15:48,841 --> 00:15:50,801
Speaker 4: courage is a big one for me, so and that's

416
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Speaker 4: been a big theme for me. Is sort of embracing

417
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Speaker 4: the challenge and having the courage to go to the

418
00:15:54,761 --> 00:15:57,001
Speaker 4: edge is sort of my manager of this year across

419
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Speaker 4: a number of aspects of my personal and professional life.

420
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Speaker 3: And I've added courages of value.

421
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Speaker 1: What does that mean to you?

422
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Speaker 4: As I said, like you know from a work perspective,

423
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Speaker 4: you know, I might have being quite conservative in different

424
00:16:06,881 --> 00:16:09,121
Speaker 4: ways of going Okay, well look maybe there's two pass here.

425
00:16:09,121 --> 00:16:11,721
Speaker 4: You can take the risk. There might be a challenge

426
00:16:11,761 --> 00:16:14,201
Speaker 4: with that, But could be how we've approached the season

427
00:16:14,241 --> 00:16:16,921
Speaker 4: with the Reds, with bringing les on, evolution of who

428
00:16:16,921 --> 00:16:19,921
Speaker 4: the next coach is going to be, making hard decisions

429
00:16:19,921 --> 00:16:22,921
Speaker 4: when we were under enormous pressure under debt at QAU

430
00:16:23,001 --> 00:16:25,761
Speaker 4: and we had to make some hard calls. Could be restructuring,

431
00:16:25,881 --> 00:16:29,601
Speaker 4: just dealing with different challenges. But have the courage to

432
00:16:29,641 --> 00:16:32,041
Speaker 4: meet the challenge. Don't just go away because it's difficult,

433
00:16:32,081 --> 00:16:34,361
Speaker 4: and it could be a difficult conversation with something you know,

434
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Speaker 4: and I've learned for me if I avoid those conversations,

435
00:16:37,481 --> 00:16:40,841
Speaker 4: put space too much space in it, then eventually it'll

436
00:16:40,841 --> 00:16:44,561
Speaker 4: build momentum and come back even bigger. But again self awareness,

437
00:16:44,761 --> 00:16:46,361
Speaker 4: what are the conversations that I need to have and

438
00:16:46,361 --> 00:16:48,801
Speaker 4: how should I have that conversation with you might be

439
00:16:48,801 --> 00:16:51,521
Speaker 4: different to how I have that conversation with someone else. Yeah,

440
00:16:51,601 --> 00:16:53,121
Speaker 4: so yeah, that's sort of what I've taken out of

441
00:16:53,121 --> 00:16:54,401
Speaker 4: that value of courage.

442
00:16:54,481 --> 00:16:56,241
Speaker 1: Okay, so you go into coaching as well? Are you

443
00:16:56,241 --> 00:16:56,721
Speaker 1: coaching as well?

444
00:16:56,841 --> 00:16:57,241
Speaker 3: Yeah? I did.

445
00:16:57,281 --> 00:16:59,641
Speaker 4: I also I went from being a development officer into coaching.

446
00:16:59,721 --> 00:17:02,161
Speaker 4: I coached Adisee Rugby and then I was at a

447
00:17:02,201 --> 00:17:04,001
Speaker 4: sort of crossroads. I was like, what do I do.

448
00:17:04,001 --> 00:17:07,281
Speaker 4: Do I continue down a professional coaching path or do

449
00:17:07,361 --> 00:17:10,321
Speaker 4: I go on to the front office administration. That was

450
00:17:10,360 --> 00:17:12,281
Speaker 4: another sort of cross roads, but it was a choice.

451
00:17:12,281 --> 00:17:15,161
Speaker 4: So I was like, okay, well, if I did coaching job,

452
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:16,881
Speaker 4: I would have had to go overseas. So I made

453
00:17:16,921 --> 00:17:18,521
Speaker 4: the decision to go on the ad in side and

454
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,640
Speaker 4: I've loved it ever since. And I had been meaning

455
00:17:21,321 --> 00:17:24,161
Speaker 4: commercial marketing operations and obviously then the CEO job I'm

456
00:17:24,201 --> 00:17:26,840
Speaker 4: in now, and that what happened about seventeen years ago.

457
00:17:27,321 --> 00:17:29,360
Speaker 2: Because if you think about a great leader, great leader

458
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,561
Speaker 2: is a great coach, yes, right, So what was it

459
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,720
Speaker 2: in the stuff that you did as coaching that you

460
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:34,561
Speaker 2: use now today?

461
00:17:35,001 --> 00:17:36,841
Speaker 4: Look, I reckon the biggest thing. It's funny people say

462
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,400
Speaker 4: do you miss coaching? I say, well, I'm doing it

463
00:17:38,441 --> 00:17:40,281
Speaker 4: into coaching. I'm doing it in my job. What I

464
00:17:40,321 --> 00:17:42,281
Speaker 4: loved if I go back to when the earlier days

465
00:17:42,281 --> 00:17:44,281
Speaker 4: when I started coaching, I loved and I still to

466
00:17:44,321 --> 00:17:46,160
Speaker 4: this day, and is I love seeing the growth in

467
00:17:46,201 --> 00:17:48,721
Speaker 4: people individually. But then also then how do you put

468
00:17:48,721 --> 00:17:50,921
Speaker 4: that together collectively as part of a team and get

469
00:17:51,241 --> 00:17:54,120
Speaker 4: everyone moving in the one direction. So, and what I

470
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:57,200
Speaker 4: missed about when I was on field coaching was the connections,

471
00:17:57,241 --> 00:18:01,161
Speaker 4: the friendships, the engagement that you have with people, and yeah,

472
00:18:01,201 --> 00:18:03,521
Speaker 4: just that extra bit of support that you can provide

473
00:18:03,561 --> 00:18:06,481
Speaker 4: people being so to say, how can I help you

474
00:18:06,521 --> 00:18:09,241
Speaker 4: achieve what you want to achieve? And understanding everyone's motivated

475
00:18:09,241 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 4: in different ways with some commonalities as well. So that

476
00:18:12,961 --> 00:18:15,080
Speaker 4: was probably what I took out of coaching. It's about

477
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,241
Speaker 4: getting the best, getting the best out of people.

478
00:18:17,281 --> 00:18:19,601
Speaker 1: That's great. So was it always your path to get

479
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:20,921
Speaker 1: to CEO? Was it kind of your goal?

480
00:18:21,321 --> 00:18:21,400
Speaker 3: Not?

481
00:18:21,441 --> 00:18:23,561
Speaker 4: When I started off, To be honest, every three or

482
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,200
Speaker 4: four years something came up in Queens and Rugby to

483
00:18:26,241 --> 00:18:28,561
Speaker 4: do another job. Yeah, I don't know, it just organically,

484
00:18:28,561 --> 00:18:30,721
Speaker 4: it just naturally evolved. I was like, I always wanted

485
00:18:30,761 --> 00:18:32,920
Speaker 4: to do well on my role, So whatever that role was,

486
00:18:32,961 --> 00:18:34,801
Speaker 4: I wanted to perform leave it in a better place

487
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,001
Speaker 4: than I found it. And then I just got to

488
00:18:37,001 --> 00:18:39,721
Speaker 4: work with good people, good leaders around me, and it

489
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:41,481
Speaker 4: just came and they probably got to the point where

490
00:18:41,521 --> 00:18:43,921
Speaker 4: I was in sort of the deputy role or chief

491
00:18:43,961 --> 00:18:46,761
Speaker 4: operating officer role, where I started to see, Okay, that's

492
00:18:46,761 --> 00:18:49,080
Speaker 4: a role I think that i'd like to do. I

493
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,001
Speaker 4: love the ambition for people that want to become a

494
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,881
Speaker 4: CEO or want to do that, that's great, but you've

495
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,481
Speaker 4: also got to understand, like there's a level of patience.

496
00:18:56,521 --> 00:18:58,640
Speaker 4: Sometimes you've got a billagy of skill set and knowledge

497
00:18:58,681 --> 00:19:01,721
Speaker 4: base before you can take those opportunities on. And when

498
00:19:01,761 --> 00:19:04,480
Speaker 4: I got the opportunity, it was COVID, so it was

499
00:19:04,561 --> 00:19:06,761
Speaker 4: like and I had prior knowledge, but I got in

500
00:19:06,801 --> 00:19:08,400
Speaker 4: there and I was like, wow, this is a real challenge.

501
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,721
Speaker 4: And it was a really good moment because we simplified everything.

502
00:19:11,761 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 4: We had three goals that we wanted to focus the

503
00:19:14,001 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 4: business on. But I tell you, there was some bit

504
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,521
Speaker 4: of fear and being quite scared at the one point,

505
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,680
Speaker 4: like we're sitting there COVID. It hit all of us

506
00:19:21,441 --> 00:19:22,920
Speaker 4: and I was like, are we going to get through this?

507
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:24,720
Speaker 4: And keeping in mind we had a fair bit of

508
00:19:24,721 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 4: debt and we were struggling before that anyway.

509
00:19:26,921 --> 00:19:28,881
Speaker 1: So you just became CEO around about the time kind

510
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:29,241
Speaker 1: of started.

511
00:19:29,441 --> 00:19:31,881
Speaker 4: Yeah, And my worry was for the staff going they're

512
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:33,920
Speaker 4: all sitting at home going what's happening? And so that

513
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,840
Speaker 4: what I learned is the power of communication, but little

514
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,120
Speaker 4: and short passes with communication, just regularly updating, not leaving

515
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 4: too much space that people would go, what's happening and

516
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,160
Speaker 4: we're lose my job. They start to have negative thoughts

517
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,281
Speaker 4: and that impacts their life, their families life. So we

518
00:19:48,321 --> 00:19:50,481
Speaker 4: had to make some hard decisions then and again that's

519
00:19:50,521 --> 00:19:52,881
Speaker 4: coming back to the courage to go to the edge

520
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,401
Speaker 4: on the decision. And you know we're every month, you're

521
00:19:55,441 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 4: finding a way to pay the staff. How do I

522
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,201
Speaker 4: get through the next four weeks? And that was probably

523
00:19:59,241 --> 00:20:01,481
Speaker 4: two years of real challenge and you're not on your

524
00:20:01,481 --> 00:20:02,640
Speaker 4: own when you're doing it.

525
00:20:02,681 --> 00:20:05,041
Speaker 1: But did you really doubt yourself during that period?

526
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,400
Speaker 3: Right at the beginning, I was scared, can we do this?

527
00:20:08,721 --> 00:20:10,881
Speaker 4: But you know, like we're talking before, what you tell

528
00:20:10,921 --> 00:20:15,161
Speaker 4: yourself your thoughts become your beliefs, that become your behaviors

529
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,801
Speaker 4: and turn out to be your life. You're not on

530
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 4: your own, and so that was the big thing for me.

531
00:20:21,281 --> 00:20:23,161
Speaker 4: There's one point right at the beginning where I felt

532
00:20:23,201 --> 00:20:26,041
Speaker 4: quite isolated. No one did that. That's me telling myself

533
00:20:26,041 --> 00:20:28,561
Speaker 4: on my own versus where I'm probably operating at my

534
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 4: best is when to break down the Rubik's cube and go,

535
00:20:31,201 --> 00:20:33,761
Speaker 4: how do I reconstruct this back to get the business

536
00:20:33,801 --> 00:20:34,681
Speaker 4: to a point where.

537
00:20:34,441 --> 00:20:35,801
Speaker 3: We can come out of it better.

538
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,601
Speaker 4: It was just shifting my mindset to go, rather than

539
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 4: our COVID is going to destroy us, So what's the

540
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,880
Speaker 4: opportunity in this? As soon as my mind flipped to

541
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,521
Speaker 4: that space, the creativity opened up. What came out of COVID.

542
00:20:47,561 --> 00:20:51,761
Speaker 4: We paid off our debt extremely quickly. We redeveloped Ballymore.

543
00:20:51,761 --> 00:20:53,761
Speaker 4: We've got funding to build the National Training cent of

544
00:20:53,801 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 4: thirty million dollars from the government. We've delivered seven operating

545
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,281
Speaker 4: profits out of that. We went from fourteenth on the ladder.

546
00:21:00,281 --> 00:21:02,401
Speaker 4: We got brad Thorne and we got to eighth. We're

547
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 4: now at fifth under less Kiss. We recruited great people,

548
00:21:05,761 --> 00:21:08,321
Speaker 4: we were able to get great sponsors. We came out

549
00:21:08,321 --> 00:21:10,961
Speaker 4: of it better. But right at the beginning, I'm telling you, yes,

550
00:21:11,041 --> 00:21:15,041
Speaker 4: I was scared. I was worried, and there was doubt.

551
00:21:15,321 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 4: But as soon as I flipped my mindset to Okay,

552
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,361
Speaker 4: you can sit in that space and you can get

553
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,761
Speaker 4: what you're going to get, which is poor performance, we

554
00:21:21,801 --> 00:21:23,360
Speaker 4: can flip your mind to what's the opportunity.

555
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 1: Because I mean, that was high stakes for you. At

556
00:21:24,921 --> 00:21:25,441
Speaker 1: the end of the day.

557
00:21:25,441 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 2: It was your first CEO gig, and you're like, if

558
00:21:28,201 --> 00:21:29,961
Speaker 2: this doesn't go well, what does this mean for sort

559
00:21:29,961 --> 00:21:31,801
Speaker 2: of things going forward? But so what I'm hearing for

560
00:21:31,801 --> 00:21:34,281
Speaker 2: you is a really strong self belief. You obviously backed

561
00:21:34,321 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 2: yourself and it was like I can do this. But

562
00:21:36,521 --> 00:21:38,281
Speaker 2: I'm also hearing that you realize you're not a one

563
00:21:38,321 --> 00:21:40,440
Speaker 2: man band, so you bought people on the journey with you.

564
00:21:40,521 --> 00:21:40,921
Speaker 3: That's right.

565
00:21:40,961 --> 00:21:43,001
Speaker 2: So what did you learn about vulnerability during that time?

566
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,001
Speaker 2: That was actually the thing that I picked up about you.

567
00:21:45,041 --> 00:21:46,880
Speaker 2: I was like, here is this man in a CEO

568
00:21:46,921 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 2: position sitting there talking really vulnerably about the struggles that

569
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,921
Speaker 2: happened during that period. It's not as common as you think.

570
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 2: Were you kind of like that back then? Or is

571
00:21:54,721 --> 00:21:55,321
Speaker 2: that something you like?

572
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,481
Speaker 4: And I reckon, to be honest, the openness and vulnerability

573
00:21:59,481 --> 00:22:01,801
Speaker 4: and sincerity and all those elements is probably been in

574
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 4: the last two or three years. I reckon My first

575
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 4: three years had key components of bringing those things together,

576
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 4: but I was very much probably trying to control too

577
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,681
Speaker 4: much of the outcome. There was a shield of like, well,

578
00:22:12,721 --> 00:22:14,841
Speaker 4: if I show too much, then that's going to show weakness.

579
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:18,161
Speaker 4: And I didn't realize till the other flip side of it,

580
00:22:18,281 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 4: the strength in vulnerability and the ability to open yourself

581
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 4: up because if you do that, not only will you

582
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 4: get the support, but also it'll bring opportunity to the table.

583
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,161
Speaker 1: It's a superpower. Is most people are scared of it,

584
00:22:30,201 --> 00:22:31,161
Speaker 1: but I was scared of.

585
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,001
Speaker 4: It because when you grow up eighties, nineties and before that,

586
00:22:34,241 --> 00:22:36,801
Speaker 4: it was like suck it up, just don't talk about it.

587
00:22:36,921 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 4: Being fascinated by when you show vulnerability and emotion, it matters.

588
00:22:41,041 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 2: It was a hack for connection because you build connection

589
00:22:43,961 --> 00:22:46,481
Speaker 2: ten times faster, because you buildrust clicker when you're vulnerable.

590
00:22:46,561 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 2: So correct and the thing is everybody has the same

591
00:22:50,001 --> 00:22:52,001
Speaker 2: fears and security. So if you're willing to be the

592
00:22:52,041 --> 00:22:53,961
Speaker 2: one to talk about it, yes, you're instantly going to

593
00:22:53,961 --> 00:22:54,921
Speaker 2: build that connection.

594
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 1: And that trust with somebody.

595
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:55,881
Speaker 3: That's so true.

596
00:22:55,961 --> 00:22:57,641
Speaker 4: Yeah, and people love to see it, right, But it's

597
00:22:57,681 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 4: how do you get people to open up to it,

598
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,321
Speaker 4: to go from the shield which is blocking the vulnerability

599
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:04,281
Speaker 4: to going Actually it's.

600
00:23:04,201 --> 00:23:05,681
Speaker 1: Okay, well modeling it right.

601
00:23:05,721 --> 00:23:07,360
Speaker 2: So I think that's the gift that you're giving for

602
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,201
Speaker 2: the next generation that comes through. So you mentioned Brad Thorn,

603
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:12,561
Speaker 2: former rugby union and league player.

604
00:23:12,801 --> 00:23:14,961
Speaker 1: He came on as a coach, Yes, head coach.

605
00:23:15,001 --> 00:23:16,561
Speaker 2: A little controversial in the sense if I think he

606
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 2: made some decisions to shift towards a more youthful team.

607
00:23:19,201 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 1: Is that correct?

608
00:23:19,681 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 3: Now, obviously we know Brad's career as a player. Yeah,

609
00:23:21,961 --> 00:23:22,441
Speaker 3: he's one of.

610
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 4: The probably the greatest contact athlete that's been able to

611
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,641
Speaker 4: transverse between rugby union and rugby league.

612
00:23:27,681 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 3: He's run World Cups.

613
00:23:28,801 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's won Super Rugby, he's won Northern Hemisphere Rugby

614
00:23:32,441 --> 00:23:35,241
Speaker 4: in the Premiership, he's won State of Origin, he's played

615
00:23:35,241 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 4: for the Kangaroos, pretty much won every trophy your Keadan rugby,

616
00:23:38,001 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 4: so you talk about culture and standards and leading with

617
00:23:41,041 --> 00:23:43,241
Speaker 4: your behaviors. Brad was excellent. So when he came in,

618
00:23:43,961 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 4: he actually coached our academy for two or three years.

619
00:23:46,241 --> 00:23:47,481
Speaker 4: So you have the young kids that are sort of

620
00:23:47,521 --> 00:23:50,761
Speaker 4: aspirational to make the Reds and then there's a few

621
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 4: changes in the coaching ranks. Brad got given the job. Now,

622
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,121
Speaker 4: it was a big step for the qu to make

623
00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 4: that because Brad had only been really out of playing

624
00:23:57,721 --> 00:23:59,521
Speaker 4: for two or three years coaching, so to take on

625
00:23:59,521 --> 00:24:01,561
Speaker 4: the Red's role without you know less, Kiss has been

626
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 4: coaching for twenty seven years professionally. But the one thing

627
00:24:05,241 --> 00:24:07,561
Speaker 4: we knew with Brad was his standards on culture were

628
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,721
Speaker 4: second to none. And he's been a part of the

629
00:24:09,721 --> 00:24:12,041
Speaker 4: best programs in the world all Blacks Snawley, so he

630
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:13,961
Speaker 4: knew what it took to be at that level and

631
00:24:14,321 --> 00:24:17,521
Speaker 4: what he saw was a really strong young group that

632
00:24:17,801 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 4: he could mold into being a team that would have

633
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,641
Speaker 4: the right set of values and play for each other.

634
00:24:24,241 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 4: But he also knew there was a culture at that

635
00:24:26,041 --> 00:24:28,521
Speaker 4: time that wasn't great for some of the senior players.

636
00:24:28,801 --> 00:24:30,561
Speaker 4: There are all those senior players are good people that

637
00:24:30,561 --> 00:24:32,761
Speaker 4: have gone on to great things post the decision that

638
00:24:32,801 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 4: Brad had made, but he reset that and his view was,

639
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,001
Speaker 4: if I've got all these young kids coming through and

640
00:24:38,041 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 4: the culture by the senior players isn't strong, then they're

641
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,161
Speaker 4: just going to follow the leader. He reset that, made

642
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,881
Speaker 4: some decisions for those players to depart and then put

643
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,281
Speaker 4: a young group through that are now wash the Wallabies,

644
00:24:49,681 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 4: phrasermik Right, Harry Wilson, Liam Right, take McDermott.

645
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,721
Speaker 2: But as a CEO, who you put in that role

646
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:58,161
Speaker 2: is one of the most high state decisions you'll make, right,

647
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,641
Speaker 2: It's the most important correct. So how do you navigate that?

648
00:25:01,801 --> 00:25:03,561
Speaker 2: How do you know you've made the right call?

649
00:25:03,681 --> 00:25:05,761
Speaker 4: Well, ultimately you know people so that the ladder at

650
00:25:05,761 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 4: the end of the season will be the telling. But

651
00:25:07,761 --> 00:25:10,521
Speaker 4: I think what our vision and direction for Brad was

652
00:25:10,521 --> 00:25:12,401
Speaker 4: we needed to culturally change.

653
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:13,201
Speaker 1: So it's about winning.

654
00:25:13,321 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 4: It wasn't just about winning. Will come from it and

655
00:25:15,561 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 4: as a results, like earning money, if you love what

656
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,081
Speaker 4: you do, when you do a good job, money comes

657
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:21,561
Speaker 4: as of it. So we knew that would be the case.

658
00:25:21,561 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 4: So that was the focus for us. And we were

659
00:25:23,521 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 4: fourteenth before Brad started, and Brad got us to eighth

660
00:25:26,201 --> 00:25:28,921
Speaker 4: on the ladder. We won a domestic title in twenty

661
00:25:28,961 --> 00:25:31,321
Speaker 4: twenty one. Because of COVID we couldn't travel to New Zealand,

662
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 4: so we could only play the Australian team. It's got

663
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 4: forty two thousand at sun Court, so you know, a

664
00:25:35,481 --> 00:25:38,481
Speaker 4: great achievement. But we could see a shift in performance.

665
00:25:38,521 --> 00:25:40,561
Speaker 4: But also we could see that was driven by culture.

666
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: What were the things you saw that showed to you

667
00:25:43,001 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 2: that culture was changing.

668
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 4: Just standards in how the players behaved and how the

669
00:25:47,441 --> 00:25:50,721
Speaker 4: players kept themselves within the training environment and the playing environment,

670
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,081
Speaker 4: how they spoke to people, their work ethic at training,

671
00:25:54,681 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 4: so doing the extras. It was always a good sign

672
00:25:56,921 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 4: of people that are prepared to go beyond what was

673
00:25:59,441 --> 00:26:03,041
Speaker 4: required by the coaches. I started to see their behavior

674
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,321
Speaker 4: amongst the staff improve, the connect was a lot better,

675
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,961
Speaker 4: and then ultimately their performance, which is the last part

676
00:26:10,001 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 4: of it, how they performed on the field where they

677
00:26:11,761 --> 00:26:12,641
Speaker 4: winning more games.

678
00:26:13,241 --> 00:26:14,721
Speaker 3: It was a big shift. But you know, we're coming

679
00:26:14,761 --> 00:26:15,481
Speaker 3: from a low base.

680
00:26:15,721 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: So when it's all done and dusted, what are you

681
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 2: going to be most proud of when it comes to

682
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 2: what you've achieved at Queensland.

683
00:26:21,481 --> 00:26:24,041
Speaker 4: The easy thing would be to focus on the business

684
00:26:24,281 --> 00:26:26,321
Speaker 4: and talk about that. I'd say the thing that I'd

685
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 4: be most proud of is the growth, particularly in the

686
00:26:28,721 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 4: last three or four years, of the people within the

687
00:26:31,801 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 4: organization and the culture and how we're working together, the

688
00:26:35,561 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 4: alignment towards the vision of where we want to be,

689
00:26:37,761 --> 00:26:39,521
Speaker 4: Like we've set ourselves the goal and we want to

690
00:26:39,521 --> 00:26:42,241
Speaker 4: be one of the best rugby provinces in the world. Absolutely,

691
00:26:42,681 --> 00:26:44,961
Speaker 4: and it's a big audacious goal and there'll be people

692
00:26:44,961 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 4: that will throw criticism at it and say, well, how

693
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 4: are you going to be bigger than a French club

694
00:26:48,441 --> 00:26:50,041
Speaker 4: or how are you going to be better than the Crusaders.

695
00:26:51,001 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 4: But if we don't shoot for that, where are we aiming?

696
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 4: I think it's the ability to get people to align

697
00:26:55,241 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 4: to that. I'd be most proud of that. Yes, on

698
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 4: field success, off field success redevelop a ballymore yep. But

699
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,521
Speaker 4: if we've got an aligned staff and game here going

700
00:27:05,561 --> 00:27:08,521
Speaker 4: in Queensland, we can do that and they believe it,

701
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 4: because there's a difference between saying it and believing it.

702
00:27:10,721 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 4: If I look at the Wallabies as an indicator of

703
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,161
Speaker 4: believing they can now win, they now believe it. They

704
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,401
Speaker 4: go over and they beat the spring Box. Sixty years,

705
00:27:18,441 --> 00:27:20,761
Speaker 4: we haven't done that. They've beaten Argentina on the death.

706
00:27:21,001 --> 00:27:22,761
Speaker 4: Next challenge will be the All Bucks. That's always the

707
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 4: Liss test. But you know that you can see it

708
00:27:24,921 --> 00:27:27,321
Speaker 4: and speaking to Harry Wilson about it, and he said, mate,

709
00:27:27,321 --> 00:27:30,521
Speaker 4: we no longer look at the opposition with hero worshiping.

710
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 3: Oh we're playing the all Blacks.

711
00:27:31,681 --> 00:27:31,881
Speaker 1: Shit.

712
00:27:32,201 --> 00:27:34,361
Speaker 4: No, no, we're better than them. It's not arrogance, it's

713
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 4: just a confidence and belief.

714
00:27:35,521 --> 00:27:36,441
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, softly.

715
00:27:36,561 --> 00:27:38,041
Speaker 4: So that's same thing. I'd love to see that. The

716
00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:40,001
Speaker 4: legacy would be that there's a belief in the vision,

717
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 4: there's alignment to it, and we go over on it.

718
00:27:41,761 --> 00:27:44,281
Speaker 4: I won't be there ten, fifteen, twenty years and we

719
00:27:44,321 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 4: are the best rugby problems and we come back and

720
00:27:45,961 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 4: talk about it and say, remember we had that chat.

721
00:27:47,721 --> 00:27:48,681
Speaker 3: That's what I'd love to see.

722
00:27:48,961 --> 00:27:51,281
Speaker 2: So when I talk about authenticity in my program, I

723
00:27:51,321 --> 00:27:54,601
Speaker 2: talk about the opportunity for connection exceeds the fear of rejection.

724
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,281
Speaker 2: So in a room, obviously in your role, you'll be

725
00:27:57,281 --> 00:27:59,441
Speaker 2: talking to the media and you'll have to have some

726
00:27:59,561 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: difficult conversations. Are there moments where there's things you want

727
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,321
Speaker 2: to say that you can't and youn't.

728
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,441
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting, like, particularly with the media, Like there's

729
00:28:08,761 --> 00:28:12,241
Speaker 4: situations where you might want to talk about a particular

730
00:28:12,281 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 4: topic in a particular way that might not align to

731
00:28:15,281 --> 00:28:18,161
Speaker 4: where the media want to take you. People can read

732
00:28:18,281 --> 00:28:21,801
Speaker 4: you if you're out just talking corporate speak. Yeah, it

733
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,201
Speaker 4: doesn't come across authentic, They'll see through it. I think

734
00:28:25,201 --> 00:28:26,961
Speaker 4: you've just got to get the balance right of getting

735
00:28:27,001 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 4: the right messages out there around what the issue is.

736
00:28:29,481 --> 00:28:33,201
Speaker 4: But also sometimes you're protecting someone's person, so you've got

737
00:28:33,241 --> 00:28:33,801
Speaker 4: to be careful.

738
00:28:33,801 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 1: But you don't feel it challenges your authenticity.

739
00:28:36,441 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 4: No, it doesn't. Unless you're lying, then you can trouble.

740
00:28:39,761 --> 00:28:42,561
Speaker 4: But like we've had a few player issues that we've

741
00:28:42,561 --> 00:28:44,641
Speaker 4: had to front the media on and our strategy has

742
00:28:44,681 --> 00:28:47,841
Speaker 4: always been b first, get out there, be the one

743
00:28:47,881 --> 00:28:50,361
Speaker 4: that's telling them about it, not they're calling you up

744
00:28:50,401 --> 00:28:51,961
Speaker 4: saying we want to do an interview or front of

745
00:28:52,001 --> 00:28:54,681
Speaker 4: you at the office saying what's happening here.

746
00:28:54,721 --> 00:28:56,561
Speaker 2: And likewise, if you don't, if you can't say it,

747
00:28:56,561 --> 00:28:57,281
Speaker 2: say you can't say it.

748
00:28:57,361 --> 00:28:58,801
Speaker 3: Yeah I can't. I'm not going to talk about it.

749
00:28:58,921 --> 00:29:01,321
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's the authenticity when and if I said it,

750
00:29:01,641 --> 00:29:03,081
Speaker 4: I know we're not going to talk about that issue

751
00:29:03,201 --> 00:29:06,121
Speaker 4: that's off the table half baked with it, then that's

752
00:29:06,161 --> 00:29:11,041
Speaker 4: when the opportunity comes. So sensationalism creates interest and content

753
00:29:11,121 --> 00:29:14,721
Speaker 4: is king true and sometimes any story is a good story,

754
00:29:15,041 --> 00:29:17,241
Speaker 4: even though it might hurt your brand. I'm not saying

755
00:29:17,441 --> 00:29:18,841
Speaker 4: you throw that out there all the time, but to

756
00:29:18,921 --> 00:29:22,361
Speaker 4: keep people interested in the code where they're fun. The

757
00:29:22,481 --> 00:29:25,841
Speaker 4: more stories we can tell not about just who scored

758
00:29:25,881 --> 00:29:28,361
Speaker 4: a try it, but who you are and what's behind

759
00:29:28,361 --> 00:29:30,561
Speaker 4: the person, which is what you're doing here, that's the

760
00:29:30,601 --> 00:29:32,321
Speaker 4: most engaging content for us.

761
00:29:32,641 --> 00:29:34,761
Speaker 2: So was there a time then where you were really

762
00:29:34,841 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: authentic or vulnerable and you got rejected from it?

763
00:29:38,761 --> 00:29:40,801
Speaker 1: Even maybe during that COVID period where you had.

764
00:29:40,681 --> 00:29:42,681
Speaker 2: To Yeah, because you don't always get a great reception

765
00:29:42,761 --> 00:29:43,321
Speaker 2: right in that's the area.

766
00:29:43,761 --> 00:29:46,801
Speaker 4: There's times where you want to do something, and say

767
00:29:46,801 --> 00:29:50,321
Speaker 4: with a board or with your membership where a decision

768
00:29:50,321 --> 00:29:52,721
Speaker 4: could be you're out there promoting who the next coach

769
00:29:52,761 --> 00:29:55,561
Speaker 4: is get and when you make these decisions, as you

770
00:29:55,561 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 4: say you just said before, they're probably the most important

771
00:29:57,521 --> 00:29:58,801
Speaker 4: decision you've got to make. Who's going to leave the

772
00:29:58,801 --> 00:30:02,361
Speaker 4: football program, and when you go out and you announce that,

773
00:30:02,641 --> 00:30:05,601
Speaker 4: you're going to get a mixed so that there's a vulnerability. Look,

774
00:30:05,801 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 4: sometimes the announcement might not be supported by fifty percent

775
00:30:09,481 --> 00:30:11,321
Speaker 4: of the people that are part of your membership, but

776
00:30:11,401 --> 00:30:13,881
Speaker 4: you've got to back yourself. So there's a vulnerability going, well, look,

777
00:30:13,881 --> 00:30:16,481
Speaker 4: it's all on. And what I dislike a little bit

778
00:30:16,521 --> 00:30:19,481
Speaker 4: in sport is when CEOs appoint coaches but the coach

779
00:30:19,521 --> 00:30:21,761
Speaker 4: doesn't perform, but then the CEO hides behind the coach,

780
00:30:22,001 --> 00:30:24,801
Speaker 4: And I think that's a really important piece that you're

781
00:30:24,801 --> 00:30:27,361
Speaker 4: making a commitment, you're part of that decision, and you're

782
00:30:27,361 --> 00:30:30,321
Speaker 4: a part of a team. In any sporting organization, it'd

783
00:30:30,401 --> 00:30:32,521
Speaker 4: be no different. Maybe when you worked at Virgin, the

784
00:30:32,601 --> 00:30:35,081
Speaker 4: chair of the CEO, the coach, and the captain have

785
00:30:35,201 --> 00:30:37,841
Speaker 4: to be aligned. And so I think the vulnerability when

786
00:30:37,841 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 4: you're going out there and saying this is who it's

787
00:30:39,201 --> 00:30:40,881
Speaker 4: going to be and you get that feedback that some

788
00:30:40,881 --> 00:30:42,961
Speaker 4: people don't like it. You might get a little seed

789
00:30:43,001 --> 00:30:44,601
Speaker 4: of doubt game or was it the right decision? Was

790
00:30:44,601 --> 00:30:46,881
Speaker 4: a good thing? And then ultimately you just got to

791
00:30:46,881 --> 00:30:49,281
Speaker 4: back yourself. And there's been times where it hasn't been

792
00:30:49,481 --> 00:30:51,401
Speaker 4: supported and that's a challenge.

793
00:30:51,481 --> 00:30:53,081
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's a big part of it accepting

794
00:30:53,121 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: what's out of your control to a degree. I mean,

795
00:30:54,721 --> 00:30:56,881
Speaker 2: you can hire someone who's great, but you can't control

796
00:30:56,921 --> 00:30:57,761
Speaker 2: the way they operate.

797
00:30:57,881 --> 00:30:59,361
Speaker 1: Correct, So how are you with control?

798
00:30:59,641 --> 00:31:01,961
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've had iken two phases of it, I reckon.

799
00:31:02,081 --> 00:31:06,081
Speaker 4: My first phase was control got me the outcome. I

800
00:31:06,161 --> 00:31:08,641
Speaker 4: may have got the outcome, but I've got no growth

801
00:31:08,961 --> 00:31:10,721
Speaker 4: from the people that were part of that. They might

802
00:31:10,761 --> 00:31:12,081
Speaker 4: have got a little bit of growth, but not to

803
00:31:12,121 --> 00:31:14,601
Speaker 4: the extent of What I've learned in the last two

804
00:31:14,641 --> 00:31:18,161
Speaker 4: or three years is giving people space, been clear on

805
00:31:18,201 --> 00:31:20,921
Speaker 4: the parameters that we want to work with, but allowing

806
00:31:20,961 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 4: them to take that space and grow and lead, and

807
00:31:24,561 --> 00:31:26,441
Speaker 4: knowing that you're never going to nail one hundred percent

808
00:31:26,481 --> 00:31:29,121
Speaker 4: of it, but be okay with that, don't jump down

809
00:31:29,161 --> 00:31:32,081
Speaker 4: their throats when things don't go to plan, sit down

810
00:31:32,121 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 4: and actually be curious and ask questions. And the control

811
00:31:35,401 --> 00:31:37,401
Speaker 4: part of me at the beginning was I don't need

812
00:31:37,441 --> 00:31:39,361
Speaker 4: to get it from point A to point B, and

813
00:31:39,601 --> 00:31:41,161
Speaker 4: the best way to get there is if I control

814
00:31:41,201 --> 00:31:43,401
Speaker 4: all But then we're going to get there, And that

815
00:31:43,481 --> 00:31:45,321
Speaker 4: to me is an important part. So you know that

816
00:31:45,481 --> 00:31:48,001
Speaker 4: was probably the last two or three years really is

817
00:31:48,041 --> 00:31:50,841
Speaker 4: about understanding that that is leadership.

818
00:31:51,401 --> 00:31:53,161
Speaker 1: I love your honesty in that it might have only

819
00:31:53,161 --> 00:31:54,721
Speaker 1: been in the last two three years. Yep, it's for

820
00:31:54,721 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people. They wouldn't always ad met that.

821
00:31:56,281 --> 00:31:57,761
Speaker 2: But you know so I think that's great because I

822
00:31:57,801 --> 00:31:58,801
Speaker 2: think it's always a journey.

823
00:31:58,841 --> 00:32:01,761
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is, And I think the key part for

824
00:32:01,801 --> 00:32:04,081
Speaker 4: me was particularly what you saw with when you came

825
00:32:04,081 --> 00:32:07,041
Speaker 4: out to Ballymore with the executive coaching, and I feel

826
00:32:07,041 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 4: like organizations, I mean, I'm interested in your thoughts on it,

827
00:32:09,281 --> 00:32:12,641
Speaker 4: but coming from the people and culture background, the lack

828
00:32:12,681 --> 00:32:16,121
Speaker 4: of investment into people I never got and this is

829
00:32:16,161 --> 00:32:18,841
Speaker 4: not a reflection of the organization that I work for.

830
00:32:18,921 --> 00:32:20,321
Speaker 4: But when I got the CEO job, it was there,

831
00:32:20,321 --> 00:32:23,441
Speaker 4: you go, go for it and welcome to COVID. I've

832
00:32:23,441 --> 00:32:25,881
Speaker 4: got a great amount of learning through those experiences. Things

833
00:32:25,881 --> 00:32:27,761
Speaker 4: I didn't do well, things I did, and that's helped

834
00:32:27,801 --> 00:32:30,361
Speaker 4: me to where I am today. But jeez, I would

835
00:32:30,361 --> 00:32:32,481
Speaker 4: have loved to have got that level of coaching. The

836
00:32:32,481 --> 00:32:37,081
Speaker 4: tool belt I now have vulnerability, understanding strengths in people,

837
00:32:37,801 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 4: being able to build stronger connections, giving them space for growth.

838
00:32:42,001 --> 00:32:43,681
Speaker 4: All the things that are there that you know you

839
00:32:43,681 --> 00:32:46,841
Speaker 4: can read in a textbook, but real life experience helps

840
00:32:46,881 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 4: grow that.

841
00:32:47,401 --> 00:32:48,361
Speaker 3: I wish I had that at.

842
00:32:48,241 --> 00:32:51,121
Speaker 2: The beginning and speaking my language here because I'm the same.

843
00:32:51,161 --> 00:32:52,761
Speaker 1: I never got anything and.

844
00:32:52,721 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 3: You worked in the area of people in Coltgre.

845
00:32:54,521 --> 00:32:56,321
Speaker 2: I never went to a single leadership course when I

846
00:32:56,361 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: was out there. But aside from that formalized training, I

847
00:33:00,561 --> 00:33:02,881
Speaker 2: can tell that you've done work. I mean, I know

848
00:33:03,001 --> 00:33:05,721
Speaker 2: you know mc toddle is your coach or yeah, explore

849
00:33:05,921 --> 00:33:08,521
Speaker 2: and you know good coaching blurs the line on business

850
00:33:08,521 --> 00:33:10,761
Speaker 2: and professional because it's all one and the same, and

851
00:33:10,921 --> 00:33:13,921
Speaker 2: the topics that I talk about and brave some people

852
00:33:13,961 --> 00:33:15,961
Speaker 2: find it difficult to say that that is obters, that's

853
00:33:16,001 --> 00:33:17,561
Speaker 2: do with my job, and that's what you're to let

854
00:33:17,601 --> 00:33:20,881
Speaker 2: go of, right because understanding yourself vulnerability, you know, being

855
00:33:20,881 --> 00:33:23,441
Speaker 2: able to speak from that messy middle, owning who you are,

856
00:33:23,481 --> 00:33:25,321
Speaker 2: and being brave enough to step into the things, knowing

857
00:33:25,361 --> 00:33:27,201
Speaker 2: what you're afraid of, knowing what your limiting beliefs are.

858
00:33:27,561 --> 00:33:30,441
Speaker 2: All this stuff shapes your ability to then tackle those

859
00:33:30,441 --> 00:33:33,801
Speaker 2: work situations. The people don't see them as the same

860
00:33:34,281 --> 00:33:36,481
Speaker 2: and I think that's why I'm so focused on EQ

861
00:33:36,721 --> 00:33:40,121
Speaker 2: training now over anything else, because you get all that

862
00:33:40,281 --> 00:33:43,001
Speaker 2: and you understand that you can navigate it yourself. The

863
00:33:43,041 --> 00:33:45,001
Speaker 2: path will kind of show you who you are because

864
00:33:45,001 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 2: you've got all the tools and a toolkit.

865
00:33:46,601 --> 00:33:49,281
Speaker 4: It's refreshing to hear that everything you've said is spot on.

866
00:33:49,561 --> 00:33:52,041
Speaker 4: And you know, if I look at what we've done

867
00:33:52,201 --> 00:33:54,001
Speaker 4: in that period of time, and we're going to expand

868
00:33:54,001 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 4: it out to all the stuff, and it's going to

869
00:33:55,481 --> 00:33:56,961
Speaker 4: be a really big piece, and I think it'll be

870
00:33:57,401 --> 00:33:59,281
Speaker 4: people say what's the missing ingredient? And I can tell

871
00:33:59,281 --> 00:34:00,681
Speaker 4: we're going to give this coach to do this now.

872
00:34:00,761 --> 00:34:03,801
Speaker 4: It's all of that stuff. But the things now that

873
00:34:03,881 --> 00:34:07,361
Speaker 4: point on understanding ranks on people, like what are your

874
00:34:07,441 --> 00:34:10,121
Speaker 4: rituals need to put in place to keep it a

875
00:34:10,201 --> 00:34:13,201
Speaker 4: level of high performance? And what are your values set

876
00:34:13,241 --> 00:34:15,801
Speaker 4: and what do they mean to you? And sitting down

877
00:34:15,841 --> 00:34:19,201
Speaker 4: and defining that and then establishing your goals your actions

878
00:34:19,241 --> 00:34:21,601
Speaker 4: that you're going to deliver. And I agree with your point.

879
00:34:21,761 --> 00:34:25,201
Speaker 4: It's about life because putting all your effort into work

880
00:34:25,201 --> 00:34:27,321
Speaker 4: and nothing at home, well that'll end up MESSI and

881
00:34:27,401 --> 00:34:31,201
Speaker 4: vice versa. So it's just life, and it's one big

882
00:34:31,401 --> 00:34:33,641
Speaker 4: pie of how do you then work with that? What

883
00:34:33,681 --> 00:34:35,321
Speaker 4: are the pillars that are important to you? So it

884
00:34:35,361 --> 00:34:38,521
Speaker 4: could be family, at work, partner, it could be anything.

885
00:34:38,761 --> 00:34:40,601
Speaker 4: What are the important pillars in your life? But yeah,

886
00:34:40,641 --> 00:34:42,761
Speaker 4: the strength part for me was really fascinating to look

887
00:34:42,801 --> 00:34:45,561
Speaker 4: at someone and to enter into a conversation on your

888
00:34:45,601 --> 00:34:48,081
Speaker 4: strengths and defining what your strengths are, so putting some

889
00:34:48,121 --> 00:34:52,081
Speaker 4: science behind it. Each strength has a balcony and a basement.

890
00:34:52,081 --> 00:34:54,401
Speaker 4: The balcony is when you're operating with your strength at

891
00:34:54,401 --> 00:34:56,481
Speaker 4: a high performance level. In the basements when you're not.

892
00:34:57,281 --> 00:35:00,201
Speaker 4: So for us as an executive team, there's a strength

893
00:35:00,321 --> 00:35:03,521
Speaker 4: called under the gallops strength called relator, and so a

894
00:35:03,561 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 4: relator is a per and that builds strong connections through

895
00:35:07,521 --> 00:35:11,281
Speaker 4: one on one engagement. That's one of my strengths. When

896
00:35:11,321 --> 00:35:14,081
Speaker 4: you're operating at your best, you're spending time with people

897
00:35:14,161 --> 00:35:17,961
Speaker 4: not just within your executive team, but across the wider

898
00:35:18,001 --> 00:35:21,881
Speaker 4: group and socially. The basement is when you get used

899
00:35:21,921 --> 00:35:24,281
Speaker 4: to it click and you don't want to extend beyond

900
00:35:24,361 --> 00:35:27,321
Speaker 4: the people that you're comfortable with. So for us, then

901
00:35:27,361 --> 00:35:29,081
Speaker 4: the lesson was okay, well, rather than it just be

902
00:35:29,121 --> 00:35:30,841
Speaker 4: a one on one with the CEO, with my four

903
00:35:30,921 --> 00:35:34,081
Speaker 4: executive leads. You guys need to be doing that across

904
00:35:34,161 --> 00:35:36,961
Speaker 4: your areas and so you're catching up with each other

905
00:35:37,001 --> 00:35:39,161
Speaker 4: on a weekly basis, and we decided that weekly was

906
00:35:39,201 --> 00:35:42,201
Speaker 4: important cadence for us. That came out of understanding the

907
00:35:42,201 --> 00:35:43,881
Speaker 4: strength and now I look at all of our staff,

908
00:35:43,961 --> 00:35:45,641
Speaker 4: you're going to go, well, that's actually that sits as

909
00:35:45,641 --> 00:35:49,241
Speaker 4: a strength though where before didn't know that. We knew

910
00:35:49,281 --> 00:35:51,601
Speaker 4: that we liked to connect, but we didn't realize that

911
00:35:51,881 --> 00:35:55,041
Speaker 4: one on one connections is what builds our bond. So

912
00:35:55,041 --> 00:35:57,161
Speaker 4: if we do that individually with each other, then the

913
00:35:57,201 --> 00:36:00,841
Speaker 4: team will rise up. I often find so it could

914
00:36:00,841 --> 00:36:04,441
Speaker 4: be physically, mentally, or emotionally or spiritually. What are the

915
00:36:04,481 --> 00:36:07,081
Speaker 4: things that are broughtant to you every week to keep

916
00:36:07,121 --> 00:36:09,401
Speaker 4: yourself at a high performance level. So for me, you

917
00:36:09,441 --> 00:36:12,201
Speaker 4: know physical side of its swimming and Jim that keeps

918
00:36:12,241 --> 00:36:14,961
Speaker 4: me a certain level. I find the breath work to

919
00:36:15,001 --> 00:36:17,761
Speaker 4: be an excellent piece for me because it probably releases

920
00:36:17,801 --> 00:36:20,321
Speaker 4: a lot of stress kind of an emotional connection so

921
00:36:20,401 --> 00:36:22,041
Speaker 4: for me to get back to my vulnerabilities to know

922
00:36:22,081 --> 00:36:24,841
Speaker 4: what's really going on, the breath work actually opens up

923
00:36:24,841 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 4: a space for me to get into that area, because

924
00:36:27,041 --> 00:36:28,841
Speaker 4: it could be something else that's bothering me that I

925
00:36:28,881 --> 00:36:31,881
Speaker 4: don't really know, but it's impacting my work until I

926
00:36:31,881 --> 00:36:34,521
Speaker 4: stop and breathe. And there's a really good guy I met,

927
00:36:34,601 --> 00:36:36,961
Speaker 4: Richie Bostock. He's called the breath Guy, who's got an

928
00:36:36,961 --> 00:36:39,881
Speaker 4: app called Flourish five minutes up to thirty minute sessions.

929
00:36:40,361 --> 00:36:42,841
Speaker 4: But I didn't realize the power of breath work until

930
00:36:42,921 --> 00:36:45,361
Speaker 4: actually I did it. And like when I got introduced

931
00:36:45,401 --> 00:36:47,601
Speaker 4: to it, the first thing was, well, I.

932
00:36:47,681 --> 00:36:49,161
Speaker 3: Breathe every day, what are you talking about.

933
00:36:49,681 --> 00:36:53,441
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's amazing that once you can get control

934
00:36:53,481 --> 00:36:56,081
Speaker 4: of your breath, the things you can tap into, and

935
00:36:56,121 --> 00:36:58,641
Speaker 4: sometimes those things are quite confronting, you know, in the

936
00:36:58,641 --> 00:37:00,561
Speaker 4: sense of things that you might not have processed, that

937
00:37:00,601 --> 00:37:02,881
Speaker 4: are sitting in your body somewhere. It's got to go

938
00:37:02,961 --> 00:37:05,001
Speaker 4: somewhere that you can bring to life. And again it's

939
00:37:05,121 --> 00:37:07,601
Speaker 4: like a muscle. You keep doing it, you can tap

940
00:37:07,641 --> 00:37:10,321
Speaker 4: in quicker and better and it's fascinating. So talk about

941
00:37:10,401 --> 00:37:13,201
Speaker 4: last six years. They're the things that have opened me up. Yeah.

942
00:37:13,281 --> 00:37:15,841
Speaker 3: Before that, I was very closed off and shielded and

943
00:37:15,881 --> 00:37:16,521
Speaker 3: thought everything else.

944
00:37:17,121 --> 00:37:18,481
Speaker 1: This is great for people to listen to.

945
00:37:18,641 --> 00:37:20,161
Speaker 2: In fact, I'm going to ask you something that I

946
00:37:20,161 --> 00:37:22,641
Speaker 2: didn't always ask. Everybody spins and where you're at. But

947
00:37:22,721 --> 00:37:25,001
Speaker 2: when something comes along in your life that you feel uncomfortable, right,

948
00:37:25,041 --> 00:37:26,721
Speaker 2: those feelings come up where you're like, I don't want

949
00:37:26,721 --> 00:37:29,361
Speaker 2: to do that. I've learned over the years to see

950
00:37:29,361 --> 00:37:31,561
Speaker 2: that as a green light for growth. Right, the opportunity

951
00:37:31,641 --> 00:37:32,921
Speaker 2: is going to lie up. That's the thing I don't

952
00:37:32,921 --> 00:37:33,241
Speaker 2: want to do.

953
00:37:33,401 --> 00:37:35,961
Speaker 1: Probably have to do it. What still makes you uncomfortable?

954
00:37:37,121 --> 00:37:39,881
Speaker 4: Got two young girls that are always challenging me. They're

955
00:37:39,921 --> 00:37:42,721
Speaker 4: beautiful young girls and how to create. Like what I've

956
00:37:42,761 --> 00:37:44,481
Speaker 4: learned through this coaching, this is life. This is a

957
00:37:44,521 --> 00:37:47,521
Speaker 4: good example you said, it's all one. The skills that

958
00:37:47,561 --> 00:37:50,761
Speaker 4: I've learned through coaching has enabled me to have conversations

959
00:37:50,761 --> 00:37:54,241
Speaker 4: with my children that are now setting them up for success.

960
00:37:54,801 --> 00:37:57,361
Speaker 4: I just encourage anyone if you can spend the time

961
00:37:57,521 --> 00:38:01,441
Speaker 4: to do that, either emotional intelligence, EQUE coaching and getting

962
00:38:01,441 --> 00:38:03,761
Speaker 4: into that space. I tell you there'll be so many

963
00:38:03,801 --> 00:38:06,721
Speaker 4: other areas it'll benefit outside of your day job. That

964
00:38:06,801 --> 00:38:10,441
Speaker 4: for me has been a really eye opening area for growth.

965
00:38:11,281 --> 00:38:13,801
Speaker 4: One of my values is growth. The reason it is

966
00:38:13,841 --> 00:38:16,001
Speaker 4: in there because not because I'm going to say every

967
00:38:16,041 --> 00:38:18,281
Speaker 4: day I'm growing. If I need to put people around

968
00:38:18,281 --> 00:38:20,961
Speaker 4: me that push me, I can be comfortable. But that

969
00:38:21,001 --> 00:38:22,801
Speaker 4: doesn't that's not the best version of me. The best

970
00:38:22,881 --> 00:38:25,641
Speaker 4: version of me is constantly growing. So that's where I

971
00:38:25,721 --> 00:38:27,761
Speaker 4: found the coaching has pushed me into space, is that

972
00:38:28,401 --> 00:38:30,241
Speaker 4: I might have known as there, but someone's just give

973
00:38:30,281 --> 00:38:31,681
Speaker 4: me a little bit of a nudge or opened my

974
00:38:31,721 --> 00:38:34,721
Speaker 4: eyes to what that may look like. I had what

975
00:38:35,081 --> 00:38:37,001
Speaker 4: Warren Buffer or one of them saying, the most important

976
00:38:37,041 --> 00:38:39,001
Speaker 4: decisions you can make in life of who your partner

977
00:38:39,081 --> 00:38:42,161
Speaker 4: is and are they a partner that's going to push

978
00:38:42,721 --> 00:38:45,761
Speaker 4: me for growth and give me open my mind to

979
00:38:45,841 --> 00:38:48,321
Speaker 4: areas that I need to be looked at. It's hard sometimes,

980
00:38:48,401 --> 00:38:50,761
Speaker 4: like growth, it's not always nice.

981
00:38:51,241 --> 00:38:52,241
Speaker 1: No, that's what I'm saying.

982
00:38:52,761 --> 00:38:53,961
Speaker 2: A lot of time, it's the thing that makes you

983
00:38:53,961 --> 00:38:57,201
Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable, and your brain is wired to avoid things

984
00:38:57,201 --> 00:38:59,961
Speaker 2: that feel challenging and change, and you have to override

985
00:38:59,961 --> 00:39:01,641
Speaker 2: that and push into it. So for me, it's a

986
00:39:01,681 --> 00:39:03,521
Speaker 2: bit of a meth that you can suddenly just be

987
00:39:03,521 --> 00:39:04,681
Speaker 2: comfortable with anything.

988
00:39:05,121 --> 00:39:06,921
Speaker 1: I still feel all the yuck feelings.

989
00:39:07,121 --> 00:39:09,161
Speaker 2: Yes, I just see it differently, like I have to

990
00:39:09,201 --> 00:39:10,801
Speaker 2: do that anyway because I can see what on the

991
00:39:10,801 --> 00:39:11,601
Speaker 2: other side do you say?

992
00:39:11,921 --> 00:39:14,961
Speaker 4: Look, if you look at your growth, my growth has

993
00:39:14,961 --> 00:39:17,881
Speaker 4: normally come through challenging situations. It's pushed me into an

994
00:39:17,921 --> 00:39:21,001
Speaker 4: uncomfortable space. Yes, it hasn't come through the easy road

995
00:39:21,081 --> 00:39:21,361
Speaker 4: for sure.

996
00:39:21,401 --> 00:39:23,601
Speaker 2: I mean adversity is a huge part of that. Even

997
00:39:23,681 --> 00:39:26,401
Speaker 2: in small moments. There's small moments where you get a

998
00:39:26,401 --> 00:39:28,561
Speaker 2: phone call that invites you to do something that you

999
00:39:28,561 --> 00:39:30,161
Speaker 2: go I did not want to do that.

1000
00:39:30,241 --> 00:39:30,401
Speaker 4: Now.

1001
00:39:30,441 --> 00:39:33,721
Speaker 2: Sometimes it might be because you're choosing self care and I

1002
00:39:33,841 --> 00:39:36,241
Speaker 2: need to take time out. So for me, I hated

1003
00:39:36,281 --> 00:39:38,201
Speaker 2: networking events. So whenever I get a phone call to

1004
00:39:38,201 --> 00:39:40,361
Speaker 2: come to stuff, particularly running around company.

1005
00:39:40,521 --> 00:39:41,281
Speaker 1: I don't really want to do it.

1006
00:39:41,321 --> 00:39:42,881
Speaker 2: I get that achiness and I'd make an excuse in

1007
00:39:42,881 --> 00:39:46,001
Speaker 2: my head and justify it. It's recognizing that things can

1008
00:39:46,041 --> 00:39:48,521
Speaker 2: still feel uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean it's a nore

1009
00:39:48,681 --> 00:39:50,841
Speaker 2: and leaning into it and the things that have come

1010
00:39:50,921 --> 00:39:53,361
Speaker 2: out of me leaning into opportunities i'd normally say no to.

1011
00:39:53,681 --> 00:39:55,121
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that come on this podcast.

1012
00:39:55,201 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: You go to meet you know, you're all very seeing,

1013
00:39:56,521 --> 00:39:59,361
Speaker 2: you're very successful. Who go oh, I didn't feel I

1014
00:39:59,401 --> 00:40:00,761
Speaker 2: knew you were going to ask me stuff that it's

1015
00:40:00,801 --> 00:40:04,241
Speaker 2: not what I'm like, great at answering, sincerely good, I'm

1016
00:40:04,241 --> 00:40:05,881
Speaker 2: glad you came on. It's the whole point because you

1017
00:40:05,921 --> 00:40:08,281
Speaker 2: walk away in something and you just feels like it's expanded.

1018
00:40:08,401 --> 00:40:10,761
Speaker 4: Yes, one hundred percent. Like it's funny you say the

1019
00:40:10,761 --> 00:40:12,641
Speaker 4: event side of it. One of the things I've learned

1020
00:40:12,761 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 4: in the coaching is say, for extrovert sometimes people there's

1021
00:40:15,961 --> 00:40:18,121
Speaker 4: a strength called wo, which is people that love the

1022
00:40:18,121 --> 00:40:20,241
Speaker 4: connection and love to be in a room and get

1023
00:40:20,281 --> 00:40:20,641
Speaker 4: and get it.

1024
00:40:20,721 --> 00:40:23,641
Speaker 3: It's called wo WO.

1025
00:40:22,761 --> 00:40:26,481
Speaker 4: And mixed got. He gets energy from those big rooms. Yeah,

1026
00:40:26,521 --> 00:40:31,041
Speaker 4: I don't. Yeah, but I know that that's growth for

1027
00:40:31,121 --> 00:40:35,081
Speaker 4: me too, And there's a balance between doing it too much.

1028
00:40:35,081 --> 00:40:36,641
Speaker 4: So that comes back to my ritual. So then, if

1029
00:40:36,801 --> 00:40:38,241
Speaker 4: if I know I'm going to go to an event,

1030
00:40:39,001 --> 00:40:40,281
Speaker 4: sometimes it might be a need to go for a

1031
00:40:40,281 --> 00:40:42,321
Speaker 4: swim that morning, because they'll just wire me down and

1032
00:40:42,321 --> 00:40:44,361
Speaker 4: then get me into a space where I feel more comfortable.

1033
00:40:44,401 --> 00:40:45,561
Speaker 4: But I get quite drained.

1034
00:40:45,721 --> 00:40:48,001
Speaker 2: I'd say extravert intro it kind of half half yeah,

1035
00:40:48,401 --> 00:40:50,161
Speaker 2: I mean, gosh, give me a microphone.

1036
00:40:50,241 --> 00:40:51,241
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be out there doing.

1037
00:40:51,281 --> 00:40:54,001
Speaker 2: You know, I can be like that, but when I

1038
00:40:54,081 --> 00:40:56,321
Speaker 2: do talk on stage, I do do events, and I

1039
00:40:56,401 --> 00:40:59,241
Speaker 2: do afterwards feel a sense of real satisfaction from being

1040
00:40:59,281 --> 00:41:00,001
Speaker 2: real human beings.

1041
00:41:00,001 --> 00:41:00,801
Speaker 1: But boy, do I.

1042
00:41:00,801 --> 00:41:03,761
Speaker 2: Need to recharge, Like I can't just go from one

1043
00:41:03,841 --> 00:41:06,121
Speaker 2: to the next like this whole like after night after night.

1044
00:41:06,241 --> 00:41:06,921
Speaker 1: This doesn't work.

1045
00:41:07,281 --> 00:41:11,241
Speaker 4: That's right, And that's one of my rituals is named recharge.

1046
00:41:11,361 --> 00:41:13,281
Speaker 4: Just I know that I need to put recharge into

1047
00:41:13,281 --> 00:41:16,201
Speaker 4: my week, and sometimes that will shift depending on what's happening.

1048
00:41:16,801 --> 00:41:18,561
Speaker 4: It's just knowing that you've got to keep yourself in

1049
00:41:18,561 --> 00:41:20,801
Speaker 4: a certain space where you're not dropping off, like you're

1050
00:41:20,841 --> 00:41:24,041
Speaker 4: not burning out. I've been through burnout. Burnout came prior

1051
00:41:24,081 --> 00:41:26,401
Speaker 4: to early days of the CEO job, where there was

1052
00:41:26,441 --> 00:41:29,881
Speaker 4: this sort of almost mindset I can take it all on, yeah,

1053
00:41:29,921 --> 00:41:31,761
Speaker 4: which is again the shield was up. I didn't want

1054
00:41:31,761 --> 00:41:33,881
Speaker 4: to show vulnerability and then suddenly it just accumulates and

1055
00:41:33,961 --> 00:41:35,841
Speaker 4: then it just whacks you in the face and says, well,

1056
00:41:36,401 --> 00:41:39,601
Speaker 4: there you go. Yeah, And it was a challenge to

1057
00:41:39,681 --> 00:41:42,281
Speaker 4: go through that. And then you can make a choice,

1058
00:41:42,281 --> 00:41:43,681
Speaker 4: what did I learn from that or do I just

1059
00:41:43,721 --> 00:41:45,281
Speaker 4: ignore it and keep doing it? And that's back to

1060
00:41:45,321 --> 00:41:45,961
Speaker 4: self awareness.

1061
00:41:45,961 --> 00:41:47,761
Speaker 2: It's a good, really good point though, because a lot

1062
00:41:47,801 --> 00:41:50,001
Speaker 2: of people, particularly i'd say in the last five years,

1063
00:41:50,041 --> 00:41:51,641
Speaker 2: have been saying burnout's worse and it's ever been.

1064
00:41:52,121 --> 00:41:53,081
Speaker 1: Is it something you can manage?

1065
00:41:53,121 --> 00:41:55,001
Speaker 2: And I think if you can accept who you are

1066
00:41:55,041 --> 00:41:57,681
Speaker 2: and how you operate, be vulnerable, because if you're owning

1067
00:41:57,721 --> 00:42:00,281
Speaker 2: the fact that I'm really exhausted, then you'll do the

1068
00:42:00,321 --> 00:42:02,161
Speaker 2: right thing that you need to recharge, and then burnout

1069
00:42:02,161 --> 00:42:02,561
Speaker 2: won't come.

1070
00:42:02,881 --> 00:42:04,921
Speaker 1: Half of it's just denyal right, just trying to be

1071
00:42:05,081 --> 00:42:06,281
Speaker 1: everything to everybody.

1072
00:42:05,961 --> 00:42:07,281
Speaker 3: Ye, hundred percent. Okay.

1073
00:42:07,281 --> 00:42:09,361
Speaker 4: It's funny you say denial because one of the little

1074
00:42:09,441 --> 00:42:11,001
Speaker 4: lessons I spoke to the girls about, we did this

1075
00:42:11,081 --> 00:42:12,241
Speaker 4: exercise which was.

1076
00:42:12,521 --> 00:42:15,241
Speaker 3: Below the line and the above the line behavior.

1077
00:42:15,201 --> 00:42:19,641
Speaker 1: Have said, are they loving the fact that Dad's like yesterday?

1078
00:42:20,201 --> 00:42:22,721
Speaker 4: They do enjoy it, but then they actually now mirroring

1079
00:42:22,721 --> 00:42:25,161
Speaker 4: and back to me, Dad, that's below the line behavior blame.

1080
00:42:25,201 --> 00:42:27,161
Speaker 3: Excuse to know, got to be careful. I was like, Wow,

1081
00:42:27,201 --> 00:42:27,641
Speaker 3: that's great.

1082
00:42:28,081 --> 00:42:31,201
Speaker 2: So I read somewhere that you ask your staff what's

1083
00:42:31,241 --> 00:42:32,801
Speaker 2: the best version of me for you?

1084
00:42:33,401 --> 00:42:35,201
Speaker 1: What are the answers that surprised you?

1085
00:42:35,241 --> 00:42:35,321
Speaker 3: Like?

1086
00:42:35,401 --> 00:42:36,961
Speaker 1: What do people say.

1087
00:42:36,921 --> 00:42:39,121
Speaker 3: I mean the first step of that was the executive team.

1088
00:42:39,241 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1089
00:42:39,641 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 4: I just think it's a great question. It's actually again

1090
00:42:41,521 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 4: you talk about vulnerability like you're actually opening yourself up

1091
00:42:44,481 --> 00:42:46,241
Speaker 4: for whatever's going to come back. And you'd hope that

1092
00:42:46,361 --> 00:42:48,481
Speaker 4: when you got the relationship strong, that it comes back

1093
00:42:48,521 --> 00:42:51,241
Speaker 4: with honesty. What's come back to me was one of

1094
00:42:51,281 --> 00:42:53,921
Speaker 4: the executives. When I come in to the meeting, I

1095
00:42:53,921 --> 00:42:56,641
Speaker 4: can feel sometimes that you want to solve the issue

1096
00:42:56,681 --> 00:42:58,401
Speaker 4: with me straight away. Sometimes I just need to let it,

1097
00:42:58,441 --> 00:43:00,881
Speaker 4: get it out. Just give me space to get it out.

1098
00:43:00,881 --> 00:43:02,681
Speaker 1: And are you a fixer?

1099
00:43:03,401 --> 00:43:06,401
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I am that and that control piece back here,

1100
00:43:07,081 --> 00:43:09,161
Speaker 4: I pull myself back and go okay, I can feel

1101
00:43:09,161 --> 00:43:11,161
Speaker 4: myself wanting to lean into it. Yeah, and I've just

1102
00:43:11,201 --> 00:43:13,201
Speaker 4: got to pull myself back, like let it be and

1103
00:43:13,241 --> 00:43:14,041
Speaker 4: then see what happens.

1104
00:43:14,041 --> 00:43:16,481
Speaker 3: And then if you need to come in, then come in.

1105
00:43:16,921 --> 00:43:19,601
Speaker 2: Sometimes being successful and getting to the title but you've

1106
00:43:19,601 --> 00:43:23,121
Speaker 2: done comes at a price. Do you think it's true

1107
00:43:23,121 --> 00:43:24,561
Speaker 2: that you can't have it all? Or what's been the

1108
00:43:24,561 --> 00:43:26,561
Speaker 2: cost of for you getting this where you've got to?

1109
00:43:26,961 --> 00:43:29,121
Speaker 4: It comes back to life. So what do your value

1110
00:43:29,121 --> 00:43:31,601
Speaker 4: and what success look like? And so your success defined

1111
00:43:31,601 --> 00:43:34,161
Speaker 4: by the title on your job. Is it defined by

1112
00:43:34,161 --> 00:43:36,681
Speaker 4: how much money you earn? Is it defined by the

1113
00:43:36,681 --> 00:43:38,921
Speaker 4: growth in your family. I think the first part is

1114
00:43:39,281 --> 00:43:42,161
Speaker 4: everyone's going to have a different definition of success. The

1115
00:43:42,161 --> 00:43:45,401
Speaker 4: sacrifices sometimes that get made is that people say work

1116
00:43:45,441 --> 00:43:47,801
Speaker 4: life balance, like, oh, what it needs to be. I

1117
00:43:47,801 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 4: don't think that's rubbish. At the end of the day,

1118
00:43:50,081 --> 00:43:54,201
Speaker 4: you will work towards your pillars and you will work

1119
00:43:54,241 --> 00:43:58,201
Speaker 4: towards what's important for you. For me, yeah, there's been

1120
00:43:58,241 --> 00:44:02,921
Speaker 4: sacrifices going through challenges with family, those things, but then

1121
00:44:02,961 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 4: you've just got to intentionally build that out in how

1122
00:44:07,001 --> 00:44:09,081
Speaker 4: you want to set yourself up for success. So for

1123
00:44:09,161 --> 00:44:12,121
Speaker 4: me now with my kids, I know that I'm going

1124
00:44:12,161 --> 00:44:14,601
Speaker 4: to I was away in Japan last week, but then

1125
00:44:14,801 --> 00:44:16,721
Speaker 4: I prioritize I want to be more present with them.

1126
00:44:16,761 --> 00:44:19,921
Speaker 4: And what I've learned is sacrifice is time away, but

1127
00:44:20,241 --> 00:44:22,641
Speaker 4: when I'm with them, if I'm not present, well that's crap.

1128
00:44:22,761 --> 00:44:24,361
Speaker 4: So that's been a big part for me. I think

1129
00:44:24,361 --> 00:44:26,881
Speaker 4: that I come back to the challenges like I look

1130
00:44:26,921 --> 00:44:30,281
Speaker 4: at that as probably my biggest challenges is that family connection.

1131
00:44:31,441 --> 00:44:34,041
Speaker 4: But now I've defined what success looks like for me

1132
00:44:34,081 --> 00:44:34,681
Speaker 4: in the family.

1133
00:44:34,921 --> 00:44:35,641
Speaker 3: I'm very clear.

1134
00:44:35,961 --> 00:44:38,521
Speaker 4: Yeah, with my mum, dad's past, I want to make

1135
00:44:38,561 --> 00:44:40,961
Speaker 4: sure that I'm connecting each week with Muma, could be

1136
00:44:41,001 --> 00:44:43,721
Speaker 4: a phone call. I've set a goal that twice a year,

1137
00:44:43,721 --> 00:44:45,721
Speaker 4: I want to go away with Mum and my children

1138
00:44:45,921 --> 00:44:48,881
Speaker 4: so they can spend time together. Where before I wouldn't

1139
00:44:48,881 --> 00:44:50,001
Speaker 4: even be able to give you an answer to that.

1140
00:44:50,041 --> 00:44:52,121
Speaker 4: So I've just defined what it looks like across the

1141
00:44:52,161 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 4: pillars work and personal and personally is partner, mum and

1142
00:44:57,841 --> 00:45:00,041
Speaker 4: the sort of wider family plus work.

1143
00:45:00,601 --> 00:45:03,321
Speaker 2: David, that is probably the best answer I've had on

1144
00:45:03,321 --> 00:45:06,521
Speaker 2: that question that I've ever Yeah, why because a lot

1145
00:45:06,521 --> 00:45:08,841
Speaker 2: of people will look at just generalize like I don't

1146
00:45:08,841 --> 00:45:10,641
Speaker 2: feel like I'm doing well there, or yes I had

1147
00:45:10,681 --> 00:45:13,561
Speaker 2: to sacrifice that, but they didn't get specific about what

1148
00:45:13,601 --> 00:45:14,321
Speaker 2: good looks like.

1149
00:45:14,641 --> 00:45:15,921
Speaker 1: And it's different for everybody.

1150
00:45:16,121 --> 00:45:18,841
Speaker 2: So if you've defined specific as I at least have

1151
00:45:19,001 --> 00:45:22,321
Speaker 2: one hour uninterrupted time with my girls each week, it's like,

1152
00:45:22,361 --> 00:45:24,561
Speaker 2: you know, really define it's not being three hours with

1153
00:45:24,601 --> 00:45:26,561
Speaker 2: them but on your phone the whole time. It's probably

1154
00:45:26,601 --> 00:45:29,161
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes was purely playing a game with them. If

1155
00:45:29,201 --> 00:45:32,281
Speaker 2: you can define specifically what it is, then you're just

1156
00:45:32,321 --> 00:45:34,201
Speaker 2: mentioning against that yardstick.

1157
00:45:33,721 --> 00:45:35,321
Speaker 3: And that's success to you.

1158
00:45:35,481 --> 00:45:37,761
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's the balance of it rather than all

1159
00:45:37,761 --> 00:45:41,161
Speaker 4: be on work, just defining it and then you're clear

1160
00:45:41,681 --> 00:45:42,561
Speaker 4: what success is.

1161
00:45:43,201 --> 00:45:46,241
Speaker 2: Two last questions. One would be rugby was off the table.

1162
00:45:46,281 --> 00:45:48,481
Speaker 2: You could never play rugby for whatever reason. Okay, what

1163
00:45:48,601 --> 00:45:49,561
Speaker 2: else would you be doing?

1164
00:45:50,761 --> 00:45:54,241
Speaker 3: I think in the coaching space. But no, no, no, no,

1165
00:45:54,641 --> 00:45:55,841
Speaker 3: not coaching the others?

1166
00:45:56,081 --> 00:45:58,761
Speaker 1: Oh oh gotcha? Yeah, okay.

1167
00:45:59,521 --> 00:46:01,961
Speaker 4: I enjoy seeing growth and people, and there might be

1168
00:46:02,001 --> 00:46:04,481
Speaker 4: other elements in other business sectors that I could get

1169
00:46:04,481 --> 00:46:06,681
Speaker 4: involved in, but that the main part for me, what

1170
00:46:06,761 --> 00:46:10,401
Speaker 4: brings me purpose and joy is that I'm doing that

1171
00:46:10,441 --> 00:46:12,761
Speaker 4: now my job. Yes, but if that was my.

1172
00:46:12,801 --> 00:46:15,761
Speaker 2: Job, yeah, I think you've just given a little snippet

1173
00:46:15,761 --> 00:46:18,641
Speaker 2: to what happens post RUGBYA and I guess last of all,

1174
00:46:18,681 --> 00:46:20,961
Speaker 2: I would ask you, this is actually a question that

1175
00:46:21,001 --> 00:46:24,281
Speaker 2: was asked by a Harvard professor, why should anyone be

1176
00:46:24,361 --> 00:46:24,801
Speaker 2: choose to be.

1177
00:46:24,841 --> 00:46:25,401
Speaker 1: Led by you?

1178
00:46:25,841 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 4: I think my values is what sits for me that

1179
00:46:29,161 --> 00:46:33,001
Speaker 4: the four things that are important growth, so the ability

1180
00:46:33,001 --> 00:46:36,041
Speaker 4: that I will lean towards the opportunity to continue to grow,

1181
00:46:36,041 --> 00:46:38,201
Speaker 4: and I feel that hopefully that inspires people to come

1182
00:46:38,241 --> 00:46:41,721
Speaker 4: on the journey. I'm not afraid of the challenges, so

1183
00:46:41,761 --> 00:46:43,321
Speaker 4: I'll run towards the fire when it.

1184
00:46:43,241 --> 00:46:43,681
Speaker 3: Needs to be.

1185
00:46:43,881 --> 00:46:45,841
Speaker 4: And you know there's examples of that we've spoken about.

1186
00:46:45,921 --> 00:46:49,241
Speaker 4: So the courage piece is important and having the mindset

1187
00:46:49,281 --> 00:46:53,081
Speaker 4: in that to embrace the challenge rather than be scared

1188
00:46:53,081 --> 00:46:57,081
Speaker 4: by it. Integrity for me is important. You know what

1189
00:46:57,161 --> 00:46:59,721
Speaker 4: I say, i'll do, I'll do, and I'll support people

1190
00:46:59,801 --> 00:47:03,641
Speaker 4: in that. Overall, just remaining curious and wanting to continue

1191
00:47:03,681 --> 00:47:07,761
Speaker 4: to see the organization and people around me succeed comes

1192
00:47:07,801 --> 00:47:08,441
Speaker 4: back to values.

1193
00:47:08,481 --> 00:47:09,481
Speaker 3: That's really what it is for me.

1194
00:47:09,681 --> 00:47:11,921
Speaker 2: Love it. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you.

1195
00:47:12,001 --> 00:47:12,921
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming on, David.

1196
00:47:12,921 --> 00:47:13,761
Speaker 3: Thanks cheers.