Speaker 1: She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2: I'm tiff This is role with the Punches and we're
Speaker 2: turning life's hardest hits into wins.
Speaker 3: Nobody wants to go to court, and don't.
Speaker 2: My friends at test Art Family Lawyers know that they
Speaker 2: offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their team of
Speaker 2: Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of
Speaker 2: family law to facto and same sex couples, custody and children,
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Speaker 2: Test Art is in your corner, so reach out to
Speaker 2: Mark and the team at www dot test Artfamilylawyers dot
Speaker 2: com dot au.
Speaker 4: Tiffany Cook, Welcome to our show.
Speaker 3: Bobby Capuccio. It's so good to see you.
Speaker 4: It's so good to see you back on your show.
Speaker 4: Mine antidote, roll with the punchers, rolling with the antidote.
Speaker 4: That sounds like that sounds like people who are stuck
Speaker 4: in a post apocalyptic zombie situation, which I hope it
Speaker 4: is not the case.
Speaker 2: I miss I really miss the days of when we
Speaker 2: did this every single week, every single week, and there's
Speaker 2: a there's a fondness I have around the time that
Speaker 2: we're doing that and it's like COVID times, which is
Speaker 2: weird to feel fondly about that, But I feel really
Speaker 2: fondly about some of the really positive things that that
Speaker 2: I connected with, and you were one of them, and
Speaker 2: there was real comfort in that, that familiarity that doing
Speaker 2: something with somebody every week, and I miss it. I
Speaker 2: miss our Yeah, how regular we were able to do
Speaker 2: that When I was pumping out way more episodes.
Speaker 4: When you said COVID, I thought you were going to
Speaker 4: start reminiscing about the times where we would all do
Speaker 4: professional meetings and podcasts, but like, have no trousers on,
Speaker 4: Well that's where you were going, but you took it
Speaker 4: in a completely different direction. But I loved or I
Speaker 4: just love it. It was also beyond COVID. I mean,
Speaker 4: we should do a special podcast called beyond COVID. Let's
Speaker 4: make a note of that. Do we have that? There's
Speaker 4: no one here to make a note of it, so
Speaker 4: maybe we won't do that after all. But I loved
Speaker 4: our weekly meetings or weekly chats. I look forward to
Speaker 4: them now I can say something about bi weekly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something about the going through things with people
Speaker 2: that solidifies your your friendship with them, and I think
Speaker 2: about because I think about that whiteboard brainstorming session that
Speaker 2: you ran me through in the very beginning, Like I
Speaker 2: just remember the beginnings of connecting with you and starting
Speaker 2: to work with you and looking up to you so much,
Speaker 2: just being so incredibly feeling so incredibly blessed that you
Speaker 2: would spend all this time with me and help me
Speaker 2: with my personal stuff. And it's just it's cool. I
Speaker 2: don't know why I'm thinking of it right now. I'm
Speaker 2: obviously feeling nostalgic.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad you got over it. I'm glad I
Speaker 4: got rid of that that damn highchair. My feets to dangle.
Speaker 4: People used to have to like look up at me
Speaker 4: all the time. It was this weird thing. I was
Speaker 4: like my first podcast episodes. That's why I never released
Speaker 4: the videos. It was just like my voice and nipples
Speaker 4: the entire time. It's like, what's really sad? It took
Speaker 4: me six months of episodes before I even noticed for
Speaker 4: anyone Han said anything like the Rihano sign behind me
Speaker 4: that Craig Harper doesn't give a shit about.
Speaker 2: Clearly, So I want to tell the listeners I logged
Speaker 2: on and you've got you've got books in your bookcase.
Speaker 2: Behind You've got a brilliant background. It's got old, beautiful
Speaker 2: fluorescent lights and things. It's the lighting is beautiful. There's
Speaker 2: bookshelves on either side of you. There's some can there's
Speaker 2: a candle in the middle. There's a beautiful like is
Speaker 2: that real old brick or is that a wallpaper?
Speaker 4: That's real old brick? Oh? God, the building?
Speaker 3: Oh you did it?
Speaker 2: Anyway, there's books, and there's you've got the book behave
Speaker 2: sitting behind you. And I looked at that, and then
Speaker 2: I looked up the top at the on air the
Speaker 2: fluoro on air, which is a very cool lighting sign
Speaker 2: that you've that you've turned backwards mirror image, so I
Speaker 2: can't read it. And you you didn't realize that all
Speaker 2: of your books were facing the right way, but on
Speaker 2: air was backwards. I'm like, there's so much to be
Speaker 2: read on this screen, now, could you know?
Speaker 4: Because here's what happened. Because I know the listeners dying
Speaker 4: to know, like why is that sign? Back words? I
Speaker 4: would imagine eighty percent of them don't even give a shit.
Speaker 4: But because we don't want the minority to be like overshadowed,
Speaker 4: I'm going to go into it, and because I have
Speaker 4: mirror my image or some weird setting on my zoom,
Speaker 4: so when I look at that, it was backwards, and
Speaker 4: then when I flipped it the other way around, it's
Speaker 4: ah on air. I didn't realize that. Everybody else looking
Speaker 4: at me sees it and it says Rihano. So now
Speaker 4: it's my choices are either look like a complete dickhead
Speaker 4: or change my name to Rihano Capuccio, which is what
Speaker 4: I'm considering it. So write us in let us know.
Speaker 4: Do you like the name Rihanno Capuccio. If you do, fantastic.
Speaker 4: If you don't, I'll just I'll just flip the sign around.
Speaker 2: You just mentioned before that you're rereading Man Search for Meaning.
Speaker 2: What has made you return to that book.
Speaker 4: I'm in a course and it was assigned to us,
Speaker 4: so I thought, yeah, I've read this before. But it's
Speaker 4: so amazing how you could read a book like that,
Speaker 4: because I think I've read through it once. I gave
Speaker 4: it a proper read, and then I gave it an
Speaker 4: improper read. I just went through and read the highlights.
Speaker 4: But I guess that's a proper read. Right. You go back,
Speaker 4: you read the highlights and then reading it now it's
Speaker 4: a completely different book.
Speaker 2: Tell me more.
Speaker 4: Well, I first read it, I thought, and I was
Speaker 4: going through that thing in my life where everything that
Speaker 4: has happened to me, And I'm not comparing anything I've
Speaker 4: ever struggled with with being in a concentration camp. That
Speaker 4: is absolutely absurd, Like I think I would trade my
Speaker 4: entire childhood like to avoid a day there. But I
Speaker 4: was very much in a place where I wanted to
Speaker 4: read a story, or I didn't know I wanted to
Speaker 4: read that story. But what I got from it was
Speaker 4: a human being who was the most desperate situation anyone
Speaker 4: can ever imagine, where everything had been taken from him.
Speaker 4: What doctor Victor Frankel called the last of the human
Speaker 4: freedoms is what he retained to choose his own attitude
Speaker 4: in any given set of circumstances, to choose his own way.
Speaker 4: And I thought, Wow, how meaning can triumph over the
Speaker 4: greatest levels of adversity. This is such an inspiring book,
Speaker 4: And now reading it, it just filled me with disgust,
Speaker 4: like how human beings could be so deeply depraved and
Speaker 4: sedistic with no self reflection to stop them in their tracks.
Speaker 4: And it still arrives at the same conclusion that in
Speaker 4: the best of circumstances, meaning makes life worth living rather
Speaker 4: than just empty and hedonistic. Not taking anything away from hedonism,
Speaker 4: I'm a fan, but in microduces or in the worst
Speaker 4: possible scenario that you can imagine, meaning is so much
Speaker 4: more fortifying than apathy. And you know, there's a couple
Speaker 4: of things that really catch me in the second read.
Speaker 4: Have you ever read the book?
Speaker 2: Yeah, ages ago, and I want to reread it because,
Speaker 2: much like you're describing now, I feel like we we
Speaker 2: take a lot out of what we read, and then
Speaker 2: when we revisit it later, there's it's like reading a whole.
Speaker 3: New, new book.
Speaker 2: Because you're a different person, you have different ideas. Some
Speaker 2: of that knowledge got embedded forever, some of it might
Speaker 2: have slipped away from the conscious mind. And yeah, so
Speaker 2: I'm going to I'm probably going to read it straight
Speaker 2: after talking to you. Now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, now that you've seen like how cynical I've become
Speaker 4: from one read to the next, I wonder how far
Speaker 4: they fallen. I don't know. I think I don't think
Speaker 4: I'm cynical. I don't think I'm a cynical personal skeptical,
Speaker 4: definitely not cynical. That doesn't make any sense to me,
Speaker 4: and I think cynicism's bullshit anyway. Like most people who
Speaker 4: are cynical, I don't believe them. If you tell me
Speaker 4: you're a skeptic, I believe you, And I think skepticism
Speaker 4: has a lot of advantages. If you tell me you're
Speaker 4: a cynic, I think for some people it's just truly
Speaker 4: where they've arrived. But for most people, it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: you are a deeply disappointed idealist. You're someone who at
Speaker 4: one point was highly empathetic and sensitive to the world
Speaker 4: around you, and basically this is a mask for your disappointment.
Speaker 4: I don't even know if I'm right on that, but
Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure that that fits a lot of people.
Speaker 4: And I think I'm just in a different space right
Speaker 4: now where I'm reading it. And it's one thing we
Speaker 4: hear when we hear about any holocaust and rightfully say
Speaker 4: never again. But it wasn't never again. It has happened
Speaker 4: to groups of people since, and I just think there's
Speaker 4: just something and I hate to arrive at this, especially
Speaker 4: on such an inspiring podcast, but sometimes I'm just like,
Speaker 4: what the fuck is wrong with us. Not us as
Speaker 4: in me and you and our listeners, we're amazing, but
Speaker 4: us as as human beings do we not learn from?
Speaker 4: Like what does it take? Like what is the case
Speaker 4: study in episodes of human history that suck that are
Speaker 4: depraved and dark and terrifying. I mean, I think it's
Speaker 4: worse than like watching a horror film imagining these things.
Speaker 4: One because it actually happened, two because it goes places
Speaker 4: is that's even more terrifying. But what's the example we
Speaker 4: need before it's like, we need to get better because
Speaker 4: it's always like, oh those people over there, evil evil people.
Speaker 4: It's never like I never have any of that in me. Right,
Speaker 4: it's not us, it's not our society, you know, it's
Speaker 4: it's the Germans. But you know it's not actually because
Speaker 4: Germany was the most civilized country in the world, which
Speaker 4: probably led pave the way to allowing that to happen.
Speaker 4: And here in the United States, straight after the Nuremberg Trials,
Speaker 4: we had Stanley Milgrim in his experiments, and you know,
Speaker 4: he was testing the can never happen here kind of
Speaker 4: a god. I don't know how how well that aged,
Speaker 4: but he proved in his experiments. Yeah, you know, what
Speaker 4: it can. It's not it's not a German thing, it's
Speaker 4: not a thing with the Yanks, It's a human thing.
Speaker 4: I think we have to take that quite seriously, like
Speaker 4: how could something let this happen and we not learn
Speaker 4: from it and we repeat it in other parts of
Speaker 4: the world over and over.
Speaker 2: I love that you've brought this into the conversation because
Speaker 2: when I was getting ready to come and chat to you,
Speaker 2: I was thinking wondering what we might talk about, and
Speaker 2: I was there's always something on my mind. There's always
Speaker 2: a million things in my mind. But the thing that
Speaker 2: I've was that I've been churning on recently was the
Speaker 2: idea of context, of how everything can polarize itself given
Speaker 2: the context that you look at it. So, like, what's
Speaker 2: an example, opening up and sharing is gives us connection
Speaker 2: and vulnerability and healing in one context, but another person
Speaker 2: opening up can open up and overshare and the nuances
Speaker 2: are very small, but the impact is very different. It
Speaker 2: can be very traumatizing. A pick can be trauma bonding,
Speaker 2: it can be opening wounds.
Speaker 3: Does that make Do you make sense from that?
Speaker 2: So? Like you read this time, Yeah, so you read
Speaker 2: this book and in one whatever frame of mind and
Speaker 2: current understanding that you're in in the moment and it
Speaker 2: has a meaning to you, and then you come back
Speaker 2: and you read it at another time when there's other
Speaker 2: stuff going on, and the context shifts in what is
Speaker 2: taking your attention and the book is holding a completely
Speaker 2: different place for you now. And that feels related to
Speaker 2: me thinking of that, because I'm always thinking of the
Speaker 2: things that I believe and talk about and the things
Speaker 2: that I feel like I'm learning or that might be
Speaker 2: of value to share, are they or how much bias
Speaker 2: do I have? How much am I just how much
Speaker 2: self indulgence am I practicing in the middle of what
Speaker 2: I think is just generously sharing stuff. It's interesting how
Speaker 2: much am I blinked?
Speaker 4: Well, unpack that from me, like what not with you?
Speaker 4: In just in general? What would be an example of
Speaker 4: an over indulgent sharing.
Speaker 2: I guess I'm just thinking about it. I'm doing a
Speaker 2: course at the moment around speaking, and we're looking at
Speaker 2: content and putting our content together and looking at stories
Speaker 2: and what we're sharing and getting quite focused in a
Speaker 2: particular area on that, And I guess that's where I've
Speaker 2: started stepping right back and thinking about not just what
Speaker 2: I'm doing, but what the other people in the group
Speaker 2: are doing and how they see it and what they're
Speaker 2: putting together, And.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's just made me really observe that
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I can explain it very well,
Speaker 2: that idea of context. Does this matter? Is this valuable?
Speaker 2: Is it really valuable? And is the way that I
Speaker 2: share it valuable? Or is it valuable in a specific context?
Speaker 3: And if it is?
Speaker 2: Am I aware of that?
Speaker 4: So I've seen people from the stage at conferences get
Speaker 4: up and they both tell very personal stories, and I've
Speaker 4: heard the audience around me say with you know, speaker A,
Speaker 4: oh my goodness, I was so inspired by that. That
Speaker 4: was like such an amazing session. And they're talking about
Speaker 4: something that's very personal from their story, and then speaker
Speaker 4: BE will do the same thing. I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 4: all he did was fucking talk about himself the whole time.
Speaker 4: And they're almost angry, like I want I want that
Speaker 4: hour back. What's the difference? What's the difference between two
Speaker 4: people that tell their story and they get two totally
Speaker 4: different responses. I mean, it's who's in the audience and
Speaker 4: where they are, Like whenever you're sharing something, you're going
Speaker 4: to impact some people like I'm offended for whatever reason,
Speaker 4: or I don't know, maybe no reason. You're going to
Speaker 4: impact other people like I'm deeply contributed to right now.
Speaker 4: I think that was meaningful. I'm grateful I was here
Speaker 4: for that, and there's gonna be everywhere else in between.
Speaker 4: Doctor Victor Frankel had some insights because we're talking about
Speaker 4: man search for me. You know what's curious, a little
Speaker 4: sidebar talk about self indulgence. I have to always be
Speaker 4: hesitant that my ideas are in any way original, because
Speaker 4: I've always believed that to really discover yourself where and
Speaker 4: you know, again the self help antidote, you know, love
Speaker 4: self help, but also constructive criticism. You have to go
Speaker 4: inside yourself and soul search and understand you. And it's like,
Speaker 4: my whole my whole identity and the whole conception of
Speaker 4: who I am is based on how I interact with
Speaker 4: the world, how the world interacts back. And I feel like,
Speaker 4: to really discover yourself and to refine yourself, yes there's
Speaker 4: things that I need to look at in here, but
Speaker 4: a lot of it's out there, and I think that
Speaker 4: is kind of a litmus test. You tell when you're
Speaker 4: telling your story, where is it aimed? Who is it
Speaker 4: aimed at? Like if there was a spotlight to indicate
Speaker 4: the direction that story is going. Is it over your head?
Speaker 4: Is it on you? Or is it on your audience?
Speaker 4: Or is it on you know, mom, dad, your spouse?
Speaker 4: Like who is the intended target beneficiary of that story?
Speaker 4: And doesn't mean you're going to get it right all
Speaker 4: the time. And I think getting it right is a
Speaker 4: really stupid expectation. It's it's it's almost like a recipe
Speaker 4: for stagnation in and of itself. But you'll get it
Speaker 4: right more of the time by just being really clear,
Speaker 4: where is this aiming, Who is this story about? Who
Speaker 4: is this sharing about? Is it about me? Or am
Speaker 4: I using it as a medium to to conceptualize something
Speaker 4: for someone other than me.
Speaker 2: I went into to this course identifying that there was
Speaker 2: that I was able to do that excuse me. I
Speaker 2: think what's really interesting is understanding the mechanics of what
Speaker 2: you do. And I've never looked at because I've never
Speaker 2: done courses in speaking before. I've just I've just found
Speaker 2: myself in spaces. I started sharing stories I was in
Speaker 2: networking groups and it grew from there. So there was
Speaker 2: I just adapted to the environment. I knew what I
Speaker 2: wanted to share, and I took on feedback and I
Speaker 2: tried to keep my eyes open to giving value. And
Speaker 2: so there was some boxes being ticked and I'm like, awesome,
Speaker 2: I'm cool, I'm ticking those boxes. And then we're going
Speaker 2: into kind of the mechanics of why and how people
Speaker 2: connect and why and how you know how people do that,
Speaker 2: and I I think it's really interesting because as I'm
Speaker 2: learning that, it's trying to identify where I was naturally
Speaker 2: doing it and how when it was just happening. And
Speaker 2: it's kind of when I think about I always talk
Speaker 2: about it in coaching boxing. I was not a natural,
Speaker 2: naturally talented boxer. It took me. I wasn't coordinated to
Speaker 2: understand how to move my body and do things correctly.
Speaker 3: Took a lot of bloody work.
Speaker 2: It took a lot of cognitive understanding and learning how
Speaker 2: to feel my body and understand which part of my
Speaker 2: body I was focusing on and what has to move
Speaker 2: and what has to fire, and how I hold myself.
Speaker 2: It's really quite complex, and I just persevered at it
Speaker 2: and now I like to teach that, and it feels
Speaker 2: like the same thing as I always tell people, you
Speaker 2: can be a great boxer, or someone can be a
Speaker 2: great boxer and not necessarily a great coach, because they
Speaker 2: were so natural at the art of boxing that they'd
Speaker 2: never had to understand how it feels and how to
Speaker 2: describe it to all the range of other people that
Speaker 2: wouldn't understand why it's not just naturally happening. Why doesn't
Speaker 2: my punch naturally do that? I don't know what you
Speaker 2: mean when you say this, whereas I didn't get that,
Speaker 2: so I had to break down the mechanics of it.
Speaker 3: And this I almost not that I'm.
Speaker 2: Saying that I'm a great speaker or a great but
Speaker 2: I there was components of the speaking process that obviously
Speaker 2: came naturally, and now I'm reverse engineering and going, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know how. I don't know if I did that.
Speaker 3: I can't remember. I just did it. I feel like
Speaker 3: that boxing coach.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's a lot of value. But to
Speaker 4: get there, you had to go through different stages of
Speaker 4: motor learning, and the first stage of motor learning is cognitive.
Speaker 4: It's like, okay, I'm like driving a car ten and
Speaker 4: two ten in two okay, foot on the brake or
Speaker 4: shift second cure, and you've got all this stuff going on,
Speaker 4: like what's going on? Both my legs moving and it's
Speaker 4: a lot, but you have to go through that to
Speaker 4: get to the point where you're relying a bit more appropriate,
Speaker 4: receptive for acuity, and then it's it's automated automatic. So
Speaker 4: I think that's the same thing with speaking. So you
Speaker 4: could just turn that on because you have to learn
Speaker 4: what you do. Not only that could be correct and
Speaker 4: improved upon, but when you're at your very best, what
Speaker 4: does that look like? I think that's equally important. So
Speaker 4: you walk into an auditorium and it's the worst day
Speaker 4: of your life, right you. Let's say you overslapt you
Speaker 4: didn't sleep well the night before, you're exhausted, you just
Speaker 4: have tons of brain fog. You're running on caffeine fumes.
Speaker 4: I don't mean, is there such a thing as caffeine fumes.
Speaker 4: There's got to be it now if there's anything that
Speaker 4: they're doing with coffee, technology is happening in Melbourne. So
Speaker 4: you're running on caffeine fumes and it's like you can
Speaker 4: still have a great presentation because you've gone through so
Speaker 4: many reps to create on demand, but you're not really
Speaker 4: going through reps until you know what it is that
Speaker 4: you're repeating. You're now if you get up there and
Speaker 4: you wing one hundred presentations, that's not one hundred times
Speaker 4: at that. That's kind of like one hundred random things
Speaker 4: that you can't put together. So it's that deliberate intension,
Speaker 4: letting go progressively and then being able to go, Okay,
Speaker 4: what's this about? Oh that topic? Yeah, I could talk
Speaker 4: on that. Wait how much time to wait? You're changing
Speaker 4: the topic. It's five minutes before I go. Can I
Speaker 4: talk about Yeah? I could do that, and you just go.
Speaker 2: I hijacked the conversation away from the mentor's remaining though,
Speaker 2: And I want to go back there because I want
Speaker 2: to know more about what drew you to the current
Speaker 2: context of it.
Speaker 4: I'm not even sure I know. Maybe I just got
Speaker 4: old and cantankerously. I was young, hopeful and optimistic and
Speaker 4: now after so many like business ventures failed and broken hearts,
Speaker 4: and who knows, I don't know what the story is
Speaker 4: behind that, Or maybe I just have a sobering, more
Speaker 4: balanced perspective. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.
Speaker 4: I know that. When I was in my twenties, I
Speaker 4: was just because I felt like I needed so much momentum,
Speaker 4: almost like almost like a you know, I'm flying quantus.
Speaker 4: You got to put that throttle all the way down
Speaker 4: and hold it down if you're ever going to get
Speaker 4: off the runway, and once you get off the runway
Speaker 4: you can pull back on that. I think that's how
Speaker 4: flying goes. But I needed to have that throttle down
Speaker 4: fall on. So for me, everything was about how do
Speaker 4: I use this? Everything's about what's optimistic about this? Where
Speaker 4: now I'm kind of more balanced. I'm like, no, there's
Speaker 4: not only one type of person that you need to be.
Speaker 4: There's not only you know, one type of thinking that's
Speaker 4: correct thinking. Everything else is not. So I see things
Speaker 4: through so many different lenses and layers because I see
Speaker 4: what's beautiful and inspiring about that book, and I also
Speaker 4: see like, wow, okay, this is this is truly disgusting,
Speaker 4: and like, it's interesting what I find disgusting in that book.
Speaker 4: But I think your connection to the public speaking is
Speaker 4: really interesting because we are talking about how to utilize tools.
Speaker 4: I just realized I probably got a lot of my
Speaker 4: philosophy on self help and growth from man search for meeting.
Speaker 4: I didn't even realize it walked around. It was probably
Speaker 4: that one that one line fairly early in the book
Speaker 4: that you know, I committed to memory, I highlighted. I
Speaker 4: went back. Success like happiness cannot be pursued. It must
Speaker 4: ensue as an unintended side effect of one's personal dedication
Speaker 4: to a cause greater than oneself. And the research is
Speaker 4: bearing that out. You know, we've talked about happiness, the
Speaker 4: pursuit of happiness versus happiness ensuing the side effect, the
Speaker 4: consequence of happiness, pursuing that which is meaningful. And I'm like,
Speaker 4: that's probably where I first started getting a lot of
Speaker 4: those ideas from. And you know, because one thing I
Speaker 4: one thing I got from and it wouldn't have mattered
Speaker 4: that much to me if I wasn't at this point
Speaker 4: in my life. But I probably wouldn't have even caught
Speaker 4: the statement. But Victor Frankel said, all suffering is relative.
Speaker 4: That's exactly what Charlie Palum said when he was on
Speaker 4: my show. It's relative because I was out with a
Speaker 4: group of friends and there are just some people that
Speaker 4: just irritate me, and that number is getting like deeper
Speaker 4: and wider as I get older. I don't know, maybe
Speaker 4: it's me, it's probably me, But it was one of
Speaker 4: these because there's these comments that you're running a racket,
Speaker 4: you're pretending that it's positive, or you're pretending that, oh
Speaker 4: my god, wow, you're you're so like you're so school
Speaker 4: of hard knocks. But what you're actually communicating, if there
Speaker 4: were subtitles under it, is like you're bitter, hateful and
Speaker 4: you're emotionally fragile. Like it's not coming off this way
Speaker 4: at all. And it was just talking about people have
Speaker 4: gone through really bad things and because of that they
Speaker 4: see the world a certain way and they struggle and
Speaker 4: it's like, oh yeah, but and in the comment was
Speaker 4: everyone's got everyone, everyone's got their stuff. So it's like, nah,
Speaker 4: you're telling me Victor Frankel, right, and and my divorce
Speaker 4: hypothetically everyone's got our stuff. Now, that's not the same stuff.
Speaker 4: And if you think it's the same stuff, one fuck off.
Speaker 4: Two you really need to unpack that. And it doesn't
Speaker 4: matter if it's the same stuff, because like we're either
Speaker 4: talking about your stuff or somebody else's stuff. And whilst
Speaker 4: your stuff might be relevant to relate to. It doesn't
Speaker 4: negate or mitigate something that's not the spirit of empathy,
Speaker 4: you know, like think about that next time somebody is
Speaker 4: like going through something. Put that thought in your head. Well,
Speaker 4: everyone's got their stuff. Does that decrease or increase the
Speaker 4: distance emotionally between you and that person? Try that out?
Speaker 4: I mean, not if it's something like really bad, like
Speaker 4: start small, like they my magic coffee was horrible this morning,
Speaker 4: Like start there. Well, everyone's got their stuff, but it
Speaker 4: and a lot of times I think that's a shield
Speaker 4: because you might not be able to deal with the
Speaker 4: weight of stuff. But then you have people like Charlie
Speaker 4: plum Pow at the Hanoi Hilton. You have Victor Frankel
Speaker 4: prisoner in four different concentration camps, and they're not walking
Speaker 4: around like everyone's got their stuff. They're like, No, suffering
Speaker 4: is relative, and depending upon what you're capable of dealing
Speaker 4: with and what you have going on, suffering kind of
Speaker 4: it feels a vacuum. It'll take up as much space
Speaker 4: in your life as it can. So I'm not comparing
Speaker 4: the camp to the divorce, but the divorce can be
Speaker 4: absolutely excruciating and some of the things like, well, you know,
Speaker 4: if you think this is bad, you should take a
Speaker 4: walk through the burn unit of I don't get those.
Speaker 4: I think those are false equivalence. I think that is
Speaker 4: a society that is either unwilling or for whatever personal,
Speaker 4: deep seated reason to protect yourself, incapable of just sitting
Speaker 4: with someone for a bit. The burn unit is horrific.
Speaker 4: Wish that on anyone. The burn unit is not the
Speaker 4: antidote or a way to dismiss someone who just like
Speaker 4: lost a spouse or a parent or a best mate
Speaker 4: or something like that. I think when people have really
Speaker 4: gone through what I've observed, So when people have really
Speaker 4: gone through some dark shit, it either makes them a
Speaker 4: much worse version of who they were, or it brings
Speaker 4: out this uncommon empathy. I wonder what are all the
Speaker 4: variables that lead to one direction versus another direction? And
Speaker 4: I think purpose is not the variable. I don't know
Speaker 4: how it would make that determination, but it's definitely one
Speaker 4: of them. So when you like this book, when you
Speaker 4: talk about okay, well storytelling, is this self indulgent or
Speaker 4: is this something that has viable value for someone? Well,
Speaker 4: what's the meaning behind that story? Like that? It's at
Speaker 4: the root of everything. I think it makes us more resilient.
Speaker 4: I think because a lot of times we can tell
Speaker 4: ourselves a lot of stories and read our own headlines.
Speaker 4: It kind of illuminates our path in front of us.
Speaker 4: So it's a light and a compass. I think this
Speaker 4: book touches upon every aspect in our life that's essential
Speaker 4: to what does it actually mean to be a human being?
Speaker 4: Like what is that?
Speaker 2: It's a really interesting time at the moment because there's
Speaker 2: so much exposure to all of our everybody's collective processing
Speaker 2: and understanding of life and others and us. And I
Speaker 2: think coupling that with how we connect or fail to
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five compared to how we used to.
Speaker 1: Is.
Speaker 2: So I'm in a conversation yesterday with one of my
Speaker 2: guests and hearing about their travel, and I was thinking
Speaker 2: about travel and how healing and life changing travel is,
Speaker 2: and essentially in my mind, I just kept landing on Yeah,
Speaker 2: because we step out of all the doing and we
Speaker 2: just connect with people. Take take away the connection to
Speaker 2: people and culture. Culture is just connecting to people in
Speaker 2: a way where you are open to learning and hearing
Speaker 2: about how life is. There like if you take the
Speaker 2: people out of the travel, then the travel.
Speaker 3: Is no longer.
Speaker 2: It's not the it's not the soil that you land on,
Speaker 2: it's not the material that the house is built out of.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and I was just thinking, like, it's just
Speaker 2: one time of everyone's life where they put down so
Speaker 2: much of identity and expectation and I am this and
Speaker 2: I have to do that, and they escape for a moment,
Speaker 2: and in escaping for a moment, they are open to
Speaker 2: being with people and it.
Speaker 3: Changes our life.
Speaker 2: It is so life changing talking to people about where
Speaker 2: they've traveled, when they've traveled somewhere new, and what it's
Speaker 2: done to them. And it doesn't matter what the story is.
Speaker 2: It can be visiting a temple, or it can be
Speaker 2: climbing a mountain, or it can be sitting with someone
Speaker 2: in a shop in a country they've never been, and
Speaker 2: they feel completely changed by the energy of the experience.
Speaker 2: And I was just like, I love that.
Speaker 1: What.
Speaker 3: I don't know where that tangent came from.
Speaker 2: Do you low the bouncing ball?
Speaker 4: It's quite a radic I don't know what happened there,
Speaker 4: but I think we've talked. We've talked about everything on
Speaker 4: the show where you're on your deathbed when you know time,
Speaker 4: time is finite, and you know you have a pretty
Speaker 4: good idea about how finite it is. We're talking about
Speaker 4: a hospice situation with that show. The show I told,
Speaker 4: oh God, I've had so many conversations. It's like, who
Speaker 4: did I talk to? There was a show on on
Speaker 4: Hulu out here Dying for Sex I think it was
Speaker 4: was it Hulu? Anyway? It was about It was about
Speaker 4: this woman who she was in remission from cancer, and
Speaker 4: then the cancer came back and it was really clear, like, Okay,
Speaker 4: she's probably not going in remission again. And it just
Speaker 4: forces her to evaluate her life. It's like a giant
Speaker 4: mirror being thrust in her face and how she deals
Speaker 4: with all of these unreconciled issues that she has with
Speaker 4: you know, childhood trauma situations her her mother had put
Speaker 4: her in and like with her current husband and all
Speaker 4: these and there's no time to figure this out and
Speaker 4: what she's going through and what becomes increasingly more and
Speaker 4: more important to her. I think it all comes down
Speaker 4: to me and you, right, I mean, not meeting you.
Speaker 4: We're not that important like us people. It's gonna be
Speaker 4: the little things, isn't it. It's gonna be the people
Speaker 4: we meet, the little things that we do, our little routines.
Speaker 4: That's what's probably gonna matter more than anything. It's not
Speaker 4: gonna be oh wow, what type of cards did I drive?
Speaker 4: Like what was my title? You know, and my income?
Speaker 4: What was that? You know, that'll only matter to the
Speaker 4: degree where it touched other people or I don't know,
Speaker 4: maybe it was like a seventy one Chevy Chavelle Supersport.
Speaker 4: I'd like to think that would still matter. But other
Speaker 4: than that, those things are going to be irrelevant, and
Speaker 4: the things that bring us, Like in the camps, where
Speaker 4: I really had an emotional response was not the guards
Speaker 4: and like the captains, the commanders of the camp. I
Speaker 4: had an emotional response to the coppos that were prisoners
Speaker 4: put in charge of other prisoners. And he's talking about
Speaker 4: the brutality, and on the one hand, it's kind of like, God,
Speaker 4: you're a prisoner yourself, and it's like you're doing more
Speaker 4: than self preservation, Like when Victor Frankel's saying that there
Speaker 4: were coppos who were more brutal than any guard, And
Speaker 4: it's like, on the other hand, if you think about
Speaker 4: everything that would make a human being truly miserable and
Speaker 4: keep them stuck there and have zero dignity about who
Speaker 4: they are. It's behavior like that because all things being equal,
Speaker 4: and I'm not saying we don't engage in like health
Speaker 4: and fitness practices and get a good amount of sleep.
Speaker 4: The thing that really enhances our well being comes from
Speaker 4: one another, like that kind of stuff, like being kind
Speaker 4: to one another, really caring about someone else instead of
Speaker 4: apathetic or hostile or something I see emerging in society.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you've noticed this where people deeply
Speaker 4: want others to be punished to the maximum degree for
Speaker 4: the slightest infraction. Like have you noticed that kind of thing?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: I mean those people have always been there. But like
Speaker 4: you said, we see everything all we're like processing a
Speaker 4: collective consciousness right now, Like what is it like to
Speaker 4: be you? What is that experience?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: Like Harps always says what's it like to be you?
Speaker 4: In terms of reflecting the experience others have with you? No, No,
Speaker 4: what what experience do you have with yourself? Like where
Speaker 4: does that come from? Talk about like happiness and things
Speaker 4: that block you from ever feeling happy? That's probably it
Speaker 4: for most people. I mean, if you're truly a psychopath,
Speaker 4: I don't really think it matters or impacts happiness that much.
Speaker 4: But for the vast majority of people who are just
Speaker 4: so injured or afraid or disappointed, and we're going through
Speaker 4: life taking it out on other people not realizing that
Speaker 4: is the one point of interaction within your control that
Speaker 4: you can utilize to not only lighten the weight of
Speaker 4: someone's day, but how much life in general ways for you.
Speaker 4: The act weighs ounces, The consequence of negligence weighs tons
Speaker 4: when you think about it. I mean, we all do it.
Speaker 4: Maybe we've all had our you know, we've all had
Speaker 4: our moments, but as a daily practice that you're not
Speaker 4: even reflecting, like did you did you read the thing
Speaker 4: that you posted? Did you listen to the thing you
Speaker 4: said to that person? Were you present at the table
Speaker 4: where we're talking about people struggling, like, well, everyone's got
Speaker 4: their stuff? Did you hear the tone that came out
Speaker 4: in not just because I'm going it didn't sound exactly
Speaker 4: like that, but not too dissimilar, Like did you did
Speaker 4: you hear like the inflection? What is that like? And
Speaker 4: I'm like, what what would it sound like, not just
Speaker 4: the context, but the tone. What would it feel like
Speaker 4: coming out of your mouth if it was coming from
Speaker 4: a very different place, a place that wouldn't make you
Speaker 4: miserable enough to want that for another person? Start there.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 2: It's interesting, Yeah, like having an awareness on the present moment,
Speaker 2: and because because it's easy to look back and reflect
Speaker 2: and see where we've come from and where we've grown
Speaker 2: and where we're what we've been through.
Speaker 3: And that's awesome.
Speaker 2: But to a degree, I don't know if maybe I'm
Speaker 2: the only one, maybe I'm slow, But there's just times
Speaker 2: when I go, You're you've been causing yourself pain in
Speaker 2: your attitude and you and why couldn't you see that before?
Speaker 2: Like there's a version of it right now that I
Speaker 2: feel where I go, you've been You've been telling a
Speaker 2: story that's been keeping you trapped in an area of
Speaker 2: your life, and it's not the way. It's not aligning
Speaker 2: with the story you're telling yourself, and that is keeping
Speaker 2: you stuck and in, you know, like ineffective and unhappy
Speaker 2: in areas not huge things, but I find that really interesting.
Speaker 2: It's like self help in inverted commas or self awareness
Speaker 2: is this ebbing and flowing, continuous thing that when you're
Speaker 2: never really fully you never master it because you're always
Speaker 2: ebbing and flowing through different states, emotional states, frames of mind,
Speaker 2: circumstances and environments and situations that inflame you periodically, and
Speaker 2: the US shift the window you're looking through that affirm
Speaker 2: and when you're very like I watched this with people
Speaker 2: in coaching, is when we are working on ourself, you
Speaker 2: have to be careful that that doesn't just become a
Speaker 2: perpetual I'm not good enough, because that's just a very
Speaker 2: strong message that I'm not good enough. So I have
Speaker 2: to work I'm getting better and I'm not good enough.
Speaker 2: And it's like you can do that for years and
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you'll actually you've improved a lot
Speaker 2: that your attitude about yourself is that you're still shit.
Speaker 4: And for me, that was one of the things that
Speaker 4: started shifting my focus to what's going on out there?
Speaker 4: Like what do you want to be better at? Like
Speaker 4: if you could be the top twenty percent of anyone
Speaker 4: working in any field, what field would that be? Like?
Speaker 4: Why what would that do for you? I'm not just
Speaker 4: talking about I'm not talking about materially, I'm talking about
Speaker 4: in tra personally, emotionally, your state of well being. What's
Speaker 4: the value that that would be built on? Because when
Speaker 4: you do that, those sacrifices to get there are life
Speaker 4: giving in and of themselves. So what's that out there?
Speaker 4: Because if you're always looking in that's another thing you
Speaker 4: can get highly neurotic. You're right about that, Like it's like, Okay,
Speaker 4: what's going on with me? How am I feel I'm
Speaker 4: not good enough? Like this deep sense of shame And
Speaker 4: it's like you keep going over and over that line
Speaker 4: in your head and that story. You can convince yourself
Speaker 4: of anything. In some cases maybe it's true. But non
Speaker 4: stop incessant self focus, I think that's like really bad
Speaker 4: for your psyching. And it's like there's there's no root,
Speaker 4: Like there's no room for perfection when you're completely focused
Speaker 4: out there because whatever it is that perfection is staving
Speaker 4: off where it's like, oh, I want to be accepted,
Speaker 4: but if I do this, oh they're going to see
Speaker 4: like I'm different, or maybe I don't want to be
Speaker 4: judged harshly whatever. When I'm focusing on something that's bigger
Speaker 4: than me, a contribution, it's on that thing. I'm going
Speaker 4: to get better and better. But it's not because oh
Speaker 4: I'm not good enough, I'm not good I need to
Speaker 4: do this, I need to I think that's a lot
Speaker 4: of times where I think we're going into what really
Speaker 4: irritates me about the whole do the work. Yeah, of course,
Speaker 4: it's just think about what that does to someone who
Speaker 4: doesn't have a how or struggling with a why and
Speaker 4: they know that they're kind of stuck in limbo and
Speaker 4: it doesn't feel good and I want to move forward.
Speaker 4: It's like, you're not doing enough and you're not doing this,
Speaker 4: and it's like, if you're doing that, well, then you
Speaker 4: must not be doing that. Oh you're doing that too well.
Speaker 4: I know you're not doing this. And it's like, we
Speaker 4: go through as many levels as we can until we
Speaker 4: find something that someone's guilty for. It's like, what does
Speaker 4: that do to them? Like if they're not connecting stuff
Speaker 4: out there in the world to something that extends beyond them,
Speaker 4: that could be that could be a constant loop in
Speaker 4: their head. So it just I used to go to
Speaker 4: these sessions, these big professional personal development self help events,
Speaker 4: and one of the things it was funny because it
Speaker 4: was right at the time that I started hanging out
Speaker 4: with Paul Taylor. It's so funny because Paul came into
Speaker 4: my life as my aspirations to be a motivational speaker
Speaker 4: a self help speaker went out of my life. Those
Speaker 4: two aspirations almost bumped up against each other, that's how
Speaker 4: close they were. And one of the things I started
Speaker 4: noticing is anyone who comes in here with any level
Speaker 4: of self not satisfaction but self accept din'ts is chastised
Speaker 4: by the entire group and the message, no, you need
Speaker 4: the next book, you need the next course. You got
Speaker 4: to work on this. What do you mean you're happy
Speaker 4: with who you are here? Don't you see? You're really
Speaker 4: fucked up. You just don't know it. And it's like,
Speaker 4: what's this person doing. They're like raising a family, they're
Speaker 4: going out, they love their career, they love their spouse,
Speaker 4: they this person seems like the most mentally healthy person
Speaker 4: in the room, and all the rest of us are
Speaker 4: freaking out like people. We get upset, like almost teary
Speaker 4: eyed at this person's unwillingness to acknowledge how screwed up
Speaker 4: they actually are. And I'm thinking, oh, this this guy's great,
Speaker 4: Like I want to get to there. And it's like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, the whole machine, the whole mechanism, the
Speaker 4: whole culture is you're broken and here's how you need
Speaker 4: to get fixed and there's only one way to do that.
Speaker 4: And I was like, well, how are we arriving at
Speaker 4: these conclusions because it seems like the gurus know everything.
Speaker 4: And then Paul Taylor was coming into my life and
Speaker 4: it was like, you don't know anything until you start
Speaker 4: to take a look inside the brain. And it's like, okay,
Speaker 4: that makes sense to me. You know what they say,
Speaker 4: like when the student is ready, Paul Taylor appears. I
Speaker 4: think that's how that's saying goes. But I was like, yeah,
Speaker 4: there's there's something. Somebody is running a racket here. Something
Speaker 4: is not right. And when I started hanging out with Paul,
Speaker 4: one of the things my friend Richard had called me
Speaker 4: and said, oh, we're doing We're doing a whole tour
Speaker 4: in Australia. We're going to be out here for a
Speaker 4: while and I want you to come out. I want
Speaker 4: you to come out on the speaking tour. I want
Speaker 4: you to be a big part of it. And it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: just one thing I don't know how this is going
Speaker 4: to go, so I'm not sure I'll be able to
Speaker 4: pay you. I'm like, what are you talking about, Like
Speaker 4: thirty days of work straight and no pay. It's like,
Speaker 4: all right, I'm hopping on a plane. I'm there. So
Speaker 4: for me where I was, I was so ready to
Speaker 4: get out of that environment and it changed my life.
Speaker 4: It didn't work out really well those sessions. It led
Speaker 4: to the creation of PTA Global. It framed a big
Speaker 4: event that we had meeting in the minds. But I
Speaker 4: think it was a big transition where it's like things
Speaker 4: are complicated. Don't make so many assumptions, because it's staggering
Speaker 4: how little you know about what's going on in your
Speaker 4: own head, not to mention somebody else. I think there
Speaker 4: are certain there are certain emblems of behavior we shouldn't accept,
Speaker 4: Like someone's behavior is blatantly hurting somebody else, especially if
Speaker 4: there's intention behind that, that's not acceptable. It doesn't matter
Speaker 4: what happened to you. But all these other little conclusions
Speaker 4: and judgments that we have with so much fevor, like
Speaker 4: I don't even know why we'd be so invested in
Speaker 4: it anyway, it's kind of weird. Yeah, you don't know
Speaker 4: that much to make that conclusion, and that's what started
Speaker 4: me on this journey.
Speaker 3: Do You're a no fun story?
Speaker 2: When I talk about my first boxing boxing fight, which
Speaker 2: obviously was a big shift in the direction of my life.
Speaker 2: That started through I'd met someone in business networking that
Speaker 2: was from America. I'd traveled to Australia. They'd come and
Speaker 2: visited our meeting and they'd reached out to Caver one
Speaker 2: on one catch up, and when we were having one
Speaker 2: catch up, they said to me, I'm staying at the
Speaker 2: Cullen and I'm going to Akimodum, which is the gym
Speaker 2: downstairs there, and there's this guy that's doing a talk
Speaker 2: and I think you'd really love it. He's doing a
Speaker 2: talk on resilience and he's an ex a Navy aircre
Speaker 2: officer or whatever the fuck Paul is. Anyway, so I
Speaker 2: went this whole My whole boxing journey started because I
Speaker 2: went to that talk and then I got a tour
Speaker 2: of vacuum Otum and the basement boxing downstairs, and that
Speaker 2: was the fight. That was my first fight, and I
Speaker 2: signed up after hearing Paul speak on resilience and the
Speaker 2: how physic hard doing hard physical things changes our mind
Speaker 2: and our mindset and our brain and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, boom, all started with old mate.
Speaker 2: It's funny like looking looking back, it wasn't until I
Speaker 2: started sharing the story of my first fight that I realized,
Speaker 2: oh my, that's kind of come full circle like.
Speaker 3: To where it began.
Speaker 4: It's a very incestuous group. We have, like such a
Speaker 4: small world. How we all like, how we're all tethered
Speaker 4: to each other by seemingly random, weird events, But it's
Speaker 4: all the same circle. So we were all there the
Speaker 4: whole time in the periphery, and we just got pulled
Speaker 4: closer and closer together. Now Poll does some remarkable work.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think I love the things that he's
Speaker 4: curious about that he researches. He's extremely interesting as a
Speaker 4: present as an individual, and he's he comes across extremely
Speaker 4: to me anyway, academic and passionate at the same time.
Speaker 4: I remember going out and speaking with Paul because when
Speaker 4: we first started, like he was the science guy and
Speaker 4: I was the application guy around behavior change. So it
Speaker 4: was neuroscience and me just starting to make that transition
Speaker 4: again from self help coaching. Right, I'll ask you a
Speaker 4: few questions. Find out what's wrong with you tell you
Speaker 4: how to fix it, not coaching to actual coaching. So
Speaker 4: I was making that shift. So I was the practical
Speaker 4: application person. He was the egghead, and you know, we
Speaker 4: would we would like share seminars, like he'd do one section,
Speaker 4: I do another. And I loved it. I absolutely loved it.
Speaker 4: When he stopped being on the road with us is
Speaker 4: when I think I started getting into lanes, too far
Speaker 4: into lanes that, Yeah, I don't think I really belonged
Speaker 4: going there.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't think it was I don't want to say
Speaker 4: my passion because I'm passionate about it, but I don't
Speaker 4: think it completely aligned with who I was and my purpose.
Speaker 4: I went so far down the neuroscience rabbit hole because
Speaker 4: I thought, oh, he's not on the road with us,
Speaker 4: I kind of need to Like this is because I
Speaker 4: realized how important it is for methodologies to be informed
Speaker 4: by neuroscience, because otherwise, like, what are we actually talking
Speaker 4: about here? So I went really far down that road.
Speaker 4: But I think that there's kind of like a balance,
Speaker 4: And what I really missed was how that balance between
Speaker 4: me and Paul worked itself out in terms of what
Speaker 4: we brought to the team. So Paul's I think a
Speaker 4: massive impact on a lot of people. I know he
Speaker 4: had a massive impact on me.
Speaker 2: I remember reaching out to him and asking him, asking
Speaker 2: if I could just follow him around when he was
Speaker 2: doing big corporate speaking jobs, and I was really I
Speaker 2: was really fortunate that he said, yep, and let me,
Speaker 2: you know, just come in and be in the room
Speaker 2: as hes an inverted Commas assistant, just so that I could,
Speaker 2: you know, get a sense of what people how people
Speaker 2: are doing this.
Speaker 4: M Yeah, Like I remember Paul took me under his
Speaker 4: wing as a mentor because I had asked him if
Speaker 4: I can like follow him around dressed as Gargamel when
Speaker 4: out smurfing. I didn't even know what smurfing was, but
Speaker 4: he showed me a strange and disturbing world I wish
Speaker 4: I had never seen, but had so much fun, and
Speaker 4: I had the Monk's outfit for years after until there
Speaker 4: was a fight with a hitchhiker in the woods a
Speaker 4: few years ago, and there was there was a lot
Speaker 4: of there was a lot of alcohol involved and let's
Speaker 4: just say, yeah, the the Monk's outfit did not make it,
Speaker 4: but I had that Monk's outfit from smurfing, which I
Speaker 4: learned from Paul Taylor. Do you do you not like
Speaker 4: know what smurfing is.
Speaker 3: But no, please explain.
Speaker 4: It's when grown ups paint themselves blue and dressed like
Speaker 4: Smurf characters from the cartoon The Smurfs, And then there's
Speaker 4: always a Gargamel, which is very risky because he was
Speaker 4: the monk, the monk that hated the Smurfs. He was
Speaker 4: like the Smurf adversary. So if you go out smurfing
Speaker 4: as Gargomel, you're taking a risk. Your safety is not guaranteed.
Speaker 4: But first time dressing up in that outfit, it was
Speaker 4: in San Diego. So we have a baseball team here
Speaker 4: at the Padres, right, And I didn't know this at
Speaker 4: the time. The mascot is a Friar, a monk. So
Speaker 4: I had rocked up to the pub I would say
Speaker 4: about fifteen minutes before everyone else got there, and someone
Speaker 4: had bought me a beer and they were cheering, and
Speaker 4: I was like, Gody, Wow, they really love the Smurfs
Speaker 4: in this town, don't they. And I had no idea
Speaker 4: that I was dressed like their mascot. And then Taylor
Speaker 4: rocks up as brainy Smurf as you would and we
Speaker 4: had a friend of ours Jen, I won't give her
Speaker 4: a surname, and you know she's blonde, so she was
Speaker 4: painted blue a smurf fat and the pub went from
Speaker 4: being highly enthusiastic to extremely confused. So I was like, Okay,
Speaker 4: this has nothing to do with the Smurfs, does it.
Speaker 4: I didn't give a shit as long as I got
Speaker 4: like a freak guinness or two out of it, all
Speaker 4: good and that and that is an example of a
Speaker 4: self indulgent story tip that has to do with anything
Speaker 4: anyone wants to hear. So, yeah, you're you're welcome. You
Speaker 4: could take that back to your course and go, yeah,
Speaker 4: do that. So what did your course say about, you know,
Speaker 4: self indulgent stories versus like, what's their take on delivering
Speaker 4: a story?
Speaker 2: So we're working through a process which we haven't done yet.
Speaker 2: So all we've done so far is decide on our
Speaker 2: stories and how we're going to tell them. That the
Speaker 2: unpacking and delivery of lessons comes in the next phase
Speaker 2: of how we work through this.
Speaker 3: So I'm looking forward to.
Speaker 2: What I loved going into this was what will I
Speaker 2: learn That I had no idea I needed to learn,
Speaker 2: and to find someone in this space that I felt
Speaker 2: comfortable with, that I felt I respected, that I wanted to,
Speaker 2: that I liked what they were delivering, and that I
Speaker 2: trusted to go through. This was big things. I feel
Speaker 2: like there's a lot of there's a lot of people
Speaker 2: in the space that are like, I'll teach you how
Speaker 2: to do this, and they don't know. I'm just I'm
Speaker 2: wary of process, you know, like, what are you teaching?
Speaker 2: How are you teaching?
Speaker 3: It? Is it?
Speaker 2: Does it take into account the things that matter to
Speaker 2: me when I'm sharing?
Speaker 4: So so you resonated with the presentations style of this person,
Speaker 4: You're like, sign up for that course?
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you for taking what I was turning into
Speaker 2: a fucking way too big explanation and condensed in it.
Speaker 3: Yes, so resonating.
Speaker 4: I feel the same way because I've worked with people
Speaker 4: like that and it's energizing. I've also signed up for
Speaker 4: things and I'm like, watching the demonstrations of this person presenting,
Speaker 4: I'm like, I wouldn't sit through the seminary. Why am
Speaker 4: I even here? That doesn't mean that that person doesn't
Speaker 4: have anything to teach you, but I think having a
Speaker 4: teacher you resonate with, it's a lot more effective than
Speaker 4: it's like, Okay, I paid my money, Let's see what
Speaker 4: I can learn from this two very different experiences.
Speaker 2: I'm very much a unscripted speaker into it, well, yes
Speaker 2: and no. Like I do a lot of planning when
Speaker 2: I'm speaking, but I don't plan the words I'm going
Speaker 2: to use when I tell the story. I understand what
Speaker 2: aspects of story I'm going to use in order to
Speaker 2: lead into the topics that I'm exposing. But as we're
Speaker 2: looking at the process of this, I'm learning a lot
Speaker 2: about the importance. But it's challenging because in order to
Speaker 2: do that, there's parts of this course where we we're
Speaker 2: looking at scripting and we're looking at time. How do
Speaker 2: I feel a time allotment? And how do I give like?
Speaker 2: How do like? I don't know. It's there's challenging aspects.
Speaker 2: There's aspects that are challenging me a lot, and you've
Speaker 2: got to be open to I have to be open
Speaker 2: to being the beginner in this and going Okay, I'm
Speaker 2: going to park all of my I know, I cling
Speaker 2: to what's comfortable and yep, it served me really well,
Speaker 2: and maybe I'll come back to aspects of it, but
Speaker 2: for now, I've got to put it in the corner
Speaker 2: and leave it there and shut up and fucking listen
Speaker 2: and try the things that I'm being told to try
Speaker 2: before I say whether or not they fit. And maybe
Speaker 2: it'll be worse. Maybe it'll be worse before I'm better
Speaker 2: because it's a new thing and I'm going to be
Speaker 2: shit at it when I try and deliver it. And
Speaker 2: maybe that's like, are you willing to be shit shitter
Speaker 2: before you're far better? Or do you want to cling
Speaker 2: to Nope, I'm I'm at this level and I'm not
Speaker 2: going to drop down any levels for any period of
Speaker 2: time in order to reach higher levels. Like that's that
Speaker 2: self indulgent? I think so, But it's challenging. It's really
Speaker 2: challenging me.
Speaker 4: Why. I don't think you've said anything on this podcast
Speaker 4: that is self indulgent. But I will say that was
Speaker 4: a master class on how to approach to learning and
Speaker 4: skill development. Like that attitude, that's perfect, Like I'm so
Speaker 4: happy that you're in this class. I think you're going
Speaker 4: to get a lot out of it, regardless, that's exactly
Speaker 4: that's exactly what it takes.
Speaker 2: MM, thank you. Do you want to wrap us up?
Speaker 4: Yeah? It would be really rude if it was like,
Speaker 4: all right, so times up, get off my show. I mean, god,
Speaker 4: it's like I'm not going to get you back as
Speaker 4: a guest anytime soon. Are you my guest or my yours?
Speaker 4: I don't even know who's the guest of who here?
Speaker 3: But I don't think either of us know anymore.
Speaker 4: It's awkward thing like really, like, you know, do we
Speaker 4: really need to fuck we.
Speaker 3: Get near the engine, I'm like, is it?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 3: Am I a guest?
Speaker 2: Do I do? I?
Speaker 3: Do I have to ask permission to.
Speaker 2: Wrap it up? Or just like how does this happen?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Society puts so many labels on us, like who's
Speaker 4: the guest, who's the host? Does it really matter?
Speaker 2: One thing I do know is that if I don't
Speaker 2: nudge you to wrap it up, I'll still be here
Speaker 2: at four pm this afternoon, which will be some ridiculous
Speaker 2: hour of the morning for you.
Speaker 4: Does my wife know that? So anyway, so as we're
Speaker 4: into the wrap up, which I think we've given plenty
Speaker 4: of hints, none of you should be surprised at what's
Speaker 4: coming at this point. I just want to thank you
Speaker 4: all for listening, because you're the most important part of
Speaker 4: this show. If it wasn't for you, it'd just be
Speaker 4: two weird people like telling shit stories to one another.
Speaker 4: Hopefully they didn't come off that way for you. And yeah,
Speaker 4: so thank you. Thank you for listening to self help
Speaker 4: Atidude and Roll with the Punches. Tiffany, thank you for
Speaker 4: being my guest host and cover all bases. Love chatting
Speaker 4: with you.
Speaker 2: Thanks Bobby, Thanks everyone.
Speaker 4: That was a horrible wrap up. You know what, I
Speaker 4: don't care. It was from the heart.
Speaker 1: She said, it's now and ever I got fighting in
Speaker 1: my blood.
Speaker 4: Coastcart Ucas scared at a countchard three