WEBVTT - Meaning, Misery & The Messy Middle | Bobby Cappuccio - 913 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:07.480 She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood. 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:12.479 I'm tiff This is role with the Punches and we're 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:14.680 turning life's hardest hits into wins. 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:18.680 Nobody wants to go to court, and don't. 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:22.279 My friends at test Art Family Lawyers know that they 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.360 offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their team of 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:30.200 Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:34.159 family law to facto and same sex couples, custody and children, 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:38.640 family violence and intervention orders, property settlements and financial agreements. 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.400 Test Art is in your corner, so reach out to 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:47.800 Mark and the team at www dot test Artfamilylawyers dot 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:49.199 com dot au. 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:54.160 Tiffany Cook, Welcome to our show. 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:56.840 Bobby Capuccio. It's so good to see you. 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.000 It's so good to see you back on your show. 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:05.640 Mine antidote, roll with the punchers, rolling with the antidote. 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.520 That sounds like that sounds like people who are stuck 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:13.440 in a post apocalyptic zombie situation, which I hope it 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:14.199 is not the case. 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:20.080 I miss I really miss the days of when we 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:24.240 did this every single week, every single week, and there's 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.360 a there's a fondness I have around the time that 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:31.800 we're doing that and it's like COVID times, which is 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:34.320 weird to feel fondly about that, But I feel really 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:38.959 fondly about some of the really positive things that that 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.360 I connected with, and you were one of them, and 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.360 there was real comfort in that, that familiarity that doing 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.920 something with somebody every week, and I miss it. I 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.920 miss our Yeah, how regular we were able to do 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.600 that When I was pumping out way more episodes. 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.360 When you said COVID, I thought you were going to 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.240 start reminiscing about the times where we would all do 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.560 professional meetings and podcasts, but like, have no trousers on, 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:08.720 Well that's where you were going, but you took it 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:12.280 in a completely different direction. But I loved or I 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.360 just love it. It was also beyond COVID. I mean, 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.040 we should do a special podcast called beyond COVID. Let's 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.040 make a note of that. Do we have that? There's 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:24.519 no one here to make a note of it, so 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.320 maybe we won't do that after all. But I loved 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.920 our weekly meetings or weekly chats. I look forward to 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.160 them now I can say something about bi weekly. 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:41.320 Yeah, there's something about the going through things with people 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:45.160 that solidifies your your friendship with them, and I think 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:49.960 about because I think about that whiteboard brainstorming session that 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.200 you ran me through in the very beginning, Like I 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.760 just remember the beginnings of connecting with you and starting 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:59.799 to work with you and looking up to you so much, 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:05.920 just being so incredibly feeling so incredibly blessed that you 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:09.600 would spend all this time with me and help me 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:12.720 with my personal stuff. And it's just it's cool. I 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:14.400 don't know why I'm thinking of it right now. I'm 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:15.799 obviously feeling nostalgic. 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:22.880 Well, I'm glad you got over it. I'm glad I 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.440 got rid of that that damn highchair. My feets to dangle. 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.320 People used to have to like look up at me 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.160 all the time. It was this weird thing. I was 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.720 like my first podcast episodes. That's why I never released 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.400 the videos. It was just like my voice and nipples 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:42.920 the entire time. It's like, what's really sad? It took 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.640 me six months of episodes before I even noticed for 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.680 anyone Han said anything like the Rihano sign behind me 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:54.440 that Craig Harper doesn't give a shit about. 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:58.600 Clearly, So I want to tell the listeners I logged 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:02.040 on and you've got you've got books in your bookcase. 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.480 Behind You've got a brilliant background. It's got old, beautiful 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.640 fluorescent lights and things. It's the lighting is beautiful. There's 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.760 bookshelves on either side of you. There's some can there's 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.720 a candle in the middle. There's a beautiful like is 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.160 that real old brick or is that a wallpaper? 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.280 That's real old brick? Oh? God, the building? 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:22.880 Oh you did it? 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.320 Anyway, there's books, and there's you've got the book behave 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:28.320 sitting behind you. And I looked at that, and then 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:30.359 I looked up the top at the on air the 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.640 fluoro on air, which is a very cool lighting sign 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:38.279 that you've that you've turned backwards mirror image, so I 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:45.160 can't read it. And you you didn't realize that all 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.200 of your books were facing the right way, but on 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.800 air was backwards. I'm like, there's so much to be 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:54.080 read on this screen, now, could you know? 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.880 Because here's what happened. Because I know the listeners dying 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.640 to know, like why is that sign? Back words? I 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.680 would imagine eighty percent of them don't even give a shit. 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:08.320 But because we don't want the minority to be like overshadowed, 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.440 I'm going to go into it, and because I have 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:14.960 mirror my image or some weird setting on my zoom, 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.719 so when I look at that, it was backwards, and 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:19.680 then when I flipped it the other way around, it's 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.560 ah on air. I didn't realize that. Everybody else looking 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:27.360 at me sees it and it says Rihano. So now 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:31.360 it's my choices are either look like a complete dickhead 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.640 or change my name to Rihano Capuccio, which is what 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.520 I'm considering it. So write us in let us know. 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.920 Do you like the name Rihanno Capuccio. If you do, fantastic. 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.320 If you don't, I'll just I'll just flip the sign around. 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:54.240 You just mentioned before that you're rereading Man Search for Meaning. 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.919 What has made you return to that book. 0:05:57.760 --> 0:05:59.960 I'm in a course and it was assigned to us, 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.279 so I thought, yeah, I've read this before. But it's 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:08.240 so amazing how you could read a book like that, 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.720 because I think I've read through it once. I gave 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.360 it a proper read, and then I gave it an 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:17.440 improper read. I just went through and read the highlights. 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:19.320 But I guess that's a proper read. Right. You go back, 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.520 you read the highlights and then reading it now it's 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:24.159 a completely different book. 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:26.320 Tell me more. 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.479 Well, I first read it, I thought, and I was 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.360 going through that thing in my life where everything that 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:35.600 has happened to me, And I'm not comparing anything I've 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.599 ever struggled with with being in a concentration camp. That 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:42.359 is absolutely absurd, Like I think I would trade my 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:48.120 entire childhood like to avoid a day there. But I 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.240 was very much in a place where I wanted to 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.159 read a story, or I didn't know I wanted to 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.840 read that story. But what I got from it was 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:02.120 a human being who was the most desperate situation anyone 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.920 can ever imagine, where everything had been taken from him. 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.640 What doctor Victor Frankel called the last of the human 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:15.040 freedoms is what he retained to choose his own attitude 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.120 in any given set of circumstances, to choose his own way. 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:23.360 And I thought, Wow, how meaning can triumph over the 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:27.440 greatest levels of adversity. This is such an inspiring book, 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:31.080 And now reading it, it just filled me with disgust, 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:37.040 like how human beings could be so deeply depraved and 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:42.440 sedistic with no self reflection to stop them in their tracks. 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:48.680 And it still arrives at the same conclusion that in 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:53.640 the best of circumstances, meaning makes life worth living rather 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:58.920 than just empty and hedonistic. Not taking anything away from hedonism, 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:03.800 I'm a fan, but in microduces or in the worst 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:11.520 possible scenario that you can imagine, meaning is so much 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:16.600 more fortifying than apathy. And you know, there's a couple 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.240 of things that really catch me in the second read. 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:20.800 Have you ever read the book? 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.640 Yeah, ages ago, and I want to reread it because, 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:28.600 much like you're describing now, I feel like we we 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.040 take a lot out of what we read, and then 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.440 when we revisit it later, there's it's like reading a whole. 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:35.160 New, new book. 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.800 Because you're a different person, you have different ideas. Some 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.760 of that knowledge got embedded forever, some of it might 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.600 have slipped away from the conscious mind. And yeah, so 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:47.760 I'm going to I'm probably going to read it straight 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:49.960 after talking to you. Now. 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.480 Yeah, now that you've seen like how cynical I've become 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:57.920 from one read to the next, I wonder how far 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:04.080 they fallen. I don't know. I think I don't think 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:06.960 I'm cynical. I don't think I'm a cynical personal skeptical, 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:11.920 definitely not cynical. That doesn't make any sense to me, 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:15.959 and I think cynicism's bullshit anyway. Like most people who 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:18.240 are cynical, I don't believe them. If you tell me 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:22.200 you're a skeptic, I believe you, And I think skepticism 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.520 has a lot of advantages. If you tell me you're 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:29.160 a cynic, I think for some people it's just truly 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.680 where they've arrived. But for most people, it's like, oh, 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.920 you are a deeply disappointed idealist. You're someone who at 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:40.840 one point was highly empathetic and sensitive to the world 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:45.400 around you, and basically this is a mask for your disappointment. 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.840 I don't even know if I'm right on that, but 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.160 I'm pretty sure that that fits a lot of people. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:57.120 And I think I'm just in a different space right 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:01.720 now where I'm reading it. And it's one thing we 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:05.840 hear when we hear about any holocaust and rightfully say 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:10.040 never again. But it wasn't never again. It has happened 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:14.360 to groups of people since, and I just think there's 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:19.320 just something and I hate to arrive at this, especially 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.720 on such an inspiring podcast, but sometimes I'm just like, 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:27.160 what the fuck is wrong with us. Not us as 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.000 in me and you and our listeners, we're amazing, but 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:38.160 us as as human beings do we not learn from? 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.880 Like what does it take? Like what is the case 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:47.040 study in episodes of human history that suck that are 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:50.680 depraved and dark and terrifying. I mean, I think it's 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:55.280 worse than like watching a horror film imagining these things. 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:59.880 One because it actually happened, two because it goes places 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:04.920 is that's even more terrifying. But what's the example we 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:09.040 need before it's like, we need to get better because 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:13.400 it's always like, oh those people over there, evil evil people. 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.320 It's never like I never have any of that in me. Right, 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:22.320 it's not us, it's not our society, you know, it's 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:27.440 it's the Germans. But you know it's not actually because 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.800 Germany was the most civilized country in the world, which 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:35.839 probably led pave the way to allowing that to happen. 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.440 And here in the United States, straight after the Nuremberg Trials, 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:43.959 we had Stanley Milgrim in his experiments, and you know, 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:48.960 he was testing the can never happen here kind of 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.720 a god. I don't know how how well that aged, 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:55.480 but he proved in his experiments. Yeah, you know, what 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.800 it can. It's not it's not a German thing, it's 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:02.960 not a thing with the Yanks, It's a human thing. 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.720 I think we have to take that quite seriously, like 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:12.199 how could something let this happen and we not learn 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:17.120 from it and we repeat it in other parts of 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:18.200 the world over and over. 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.880 I love that you've brought this into the conversation because 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.959 when I was getting ready to come and chat to you, 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.000 I was thinking wondering what we might talk about, and 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:35.120 I was there's always something on my mind. There's always 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.120 a million things in my mind. But the thing that 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:41.880 I've was that I've been churning on recently was the 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:50.600 idea of context, of how everything can polarize itself given 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:58.800 the context that you look at it. So, like, what's 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:09.840 an example, opening up and sharing is gives us connection 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:16.199 and vulnerability and healing in one context, but another person 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:22.559 opening up can open up and overshare and the nuances 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.840 are very small, but the impact is very different. It 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:29.560 can be very traumatizing. A pick can be trauma bonding, 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.040 it can be opening wounds. 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:36.160 Does that make Do you make sense from that? 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:41.880 So? Like you read this time, Yeah, so you read 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:46.880 this book and in one whatever frame of mind and 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:53.199 current understanding that you're in in the moment and it 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:56.000 has a meaning to you, and then you come back 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.360 and you read it at another time when there's other 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:02.640 stuff going on, and the context shifts in what is 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.400 taking your attention and the book is holding a completely 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.880 different place for you now. And that feels related to 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:16.560 me thinking of that, because I'm always thinking of the 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.400 things that I believe and talk about and the things 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.640 that I feel like I'm learning or that might be 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:28.200 of value to share, are they or how much bias 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.680 do I have? How much am I just how much 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:37.320 self indulgence am I practicing in the middle of what 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:42.160 I think is just generously sharing stuff. It's interesting how 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:43.200 much am I blinked? 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:51.520 Well, unpack that from me, like what not with you? 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:56.920 In just in general? What would be an example of 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:58.960 an over indulgent sharing. 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.960 I guess I'm just thinking about it. I'm doing a 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:12.920 course at the moment around speaking, and we're looking at 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:16.600 content and putting our content together and looking at stories 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:23.040 and what we're sharing and getting quite focused in a 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.880 particular area on that, And I guess that's where I've 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:30.120 started stepping right back and thinking about not just what 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.320 I'm doing, but what the other people in the group 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.080 are doing and how they see it and what they're 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:35.240 putting together, And. 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:44.280 I don't know. It's just made me really observe that 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:46.200 I don't know. 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.080 I don't know if I can explain it very well, 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:52.920 that idea of context. Does this matter? Is this valuable? 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.040 Is it really valuable? And is the way that I 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:03.000 share it valuable? Or is it valuable in a specific context? 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:03.960 And if it is? 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:04.960 Am I aware of that? 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:13.000 So I've seen people from the stage at conferences get 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:18.160 up and they both tell very personal stories, and I've 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.240 heard the audience around me say with you know, speaker A, 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.720 oh my goodness, I was so inspired by that. That 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:29.400 was like such an amazing session. And they're talking about 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.400 something that's very personal from their story, and then speaker 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:34.600 BE will do the same thing. I'm like, oh my god, 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:38.200 all he did was fucking talk about himself the whole time. 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.600 And they're almost angry, like I want I want that 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.480 hour back. What's the difference? What's the difference between two 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.720 people that tell their story and they get two totally 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.560 different responses. I mean, it's who's in the audience and 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:56.520 where they are, Like whenever you're sharing something, you're going 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.880 to impact some people like I'm offended for whatever reason, 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.280 or I don't know, maybe no reason. You're going to 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:07.240 impact other people like I'm deeply contributed to right now. 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:11.360 I think that was meaningful. I'm grateful I was here 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.320 for that, and there's gonna be everywhere else in between. 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.640 Doctor Victor Frankel had some insights because we're talking about 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.760 man search for me. You know what's curious, a little 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:25.480 sidebar talk about self indulgence. I have to always be 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:30.200 hesitant that my ideas are in any way original, because 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:35.600 I've always believed that to really discover yourself where and 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.200 you know, again the self help antidote, you know, love 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.560 self help, but also constructive criticism. You have to go 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.800 inside yourself and soul search and understand you. And it's like, 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:50.159 my whole my whole identity and the whole conception of 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:52.600 who I am is based on how I interact with 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:55.840 the world, how the world interacts back. And I feel like, 0:17:56.000 --> 0:18:00.920 to really discover yourself and to refine yourself, yes there's 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:02.919 things that I need to look at in here, but 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.840 a lot of it's out there, and I think that 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.440 is kind of a litmus test. You tell when you're 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.320 telling your story, where is it aimed? Who is it 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:16.400 aimed at? Like if there was a spotlight to indicate 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.400 the direction that story is going. Is it over your head? 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.639 Is it on you? Or is it on your audience? 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.000 Or is it on you know, mom, dad, your spouse? 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:32.240 Like who is the intended target beneficiary of that story? 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:34.520 And doesn't mean you're going to get it right all 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:36.880 the time. And I think getting it right is a 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.640 really stupid expectation. It's it's it's almost like a recipe 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:44.479 for stagnation in and of itself. But you'll get it 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:48.119 right more of the time by just being really clear, 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.359 where is this aiming, Who is this story about? Who 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:53.880 is this sharing about? Is it about me? Or am 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:58.720 I using it as a medium to to conceptualize something 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:00.399 for someone other than me. 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:12.159 I went into to this course identifying that there was 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.800 that I was able to do that excuse me. I 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.200 think what's really interesting is understanding the mechanics of what 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:22.800 you do. And I've never looked at because I've never 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:28.960 done courses in speaking before. I've just I've just found 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.560 myself in spaces. I started sharing stories I was in 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.399 networking groups and it grew from there. So there was 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.320 I just adapted to the environment. I knew what I 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:43.640 wanted to share, and I took on feedback and I 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:47.600 tried to keep my eyes open to giving value. And 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.120 so there was some boxes being ticked and I'm like, awesome, 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.359 I'm cool, I'm ticking those boxes. And then we're going 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.959 into kind of the mechanics of why and how people 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.280 connect and why and how you know how people do that, 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:04.720 and I I think it's really interesting because as I'm 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:08.120 learning that, it's trying to identify where I was naturally 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.480 doing it and how when it was just happening. And 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:14.480 it's kind of when I think about I always talk 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:18.920 about it in coaching boxing. I was not a natural, 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:24.399 naturally talented boxer. It took me. I wasn't coordinated to 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.880 understand how to move my body and do things correctly. 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:29.160 Took a lot of bloody work. 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.560 It took a lot of cognitive understanding and learning how 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:34.800 to feel my body and understand which part of my 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.120 body I was focusing on and what has to move 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:39.560 and what has to fire, and how I hold myself. 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:45.040 It's really quite complex, and I just persevered at it 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.119 and now I like to teach that, and it feels 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:49.639 like the same thing as I always tell people, you 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.919 can be a great boxer, or someone can be a 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:55.399 great boxer and not necessarily a great coach, because they 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:59.400 were so natural at the art of boxing that they'd 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.959 never had to understand how it feels and how to 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:06.000 describe it to all the range of other people that 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:10.560 wouldn't understand why it's not just naturally happening. Why doesn't 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:12.359 my punch naturally do that? I don't know what you 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.040 mean when you say this, whereas I didn't get that, 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:16.879 so I had to break down the mechanics of it. 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.840 And this I almost not that I'm. 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.159 Saying that I'm a great speaker or a great but 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:27.400 I there was components of the speaking process that obviously 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:32.359 came naturally, and now I'm reverse engineering and going, oh, 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:35.359 I don't know how. I don't know if I did that. 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:39.560 I can't remember. I just did it. I feel like 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:40.520 that boxing coach. 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:47.480 Yeah, I think there's a lot of value. But to 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:51.679 get there, you had to go through different stages of 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:55.080 motor learning, and the first stage of motor learning is cognitive. 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.840 It's like, okay, I'm like driving a car ten and 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:00.480 two ten in two okay, foot on the brake or 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:04.639 shift second cure, and you've got all this stuff going on, 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:08.160 like what's going on? Both my legs moving and it's 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.760 a lot, but you have to go through that to 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:14.440 get to the point where you're relying a bit more appropriate, 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:18.600 receptive for acuity, and then it's it's automated automatic. So 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.280 I think that's the same thing with speaking. So you 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.840 could just turn that on because you have to learn 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.359 what you do. Not only that could be correct and 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:30.879 improved upon, but when you're at your very best, what 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:35.679 does that look like? I think that's equally important. So 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:40.680 you walk into an auditorium and it's the worst day 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:44.800 of your life, right you. Let's say you overslapt you 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:49.000 didn't sleep well the night before, you're exhausted, you just 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:52.600 have tons of brain fog. You're running on caffeine fumes. 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:55.000 I don't mean, is there such a thing as caffeine fumes. 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:58.920 There's got to be it now if there's anything that 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:02.119 they're doing with coffee, technology is happening in Melbourne. So 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:09.080 you're running on caffeine fumes and it's like you can 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:13.679 still have a great presentation because you've gone through so 0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:16.920 many reps to create on demand, but you're not really 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:19.920 going through reps until you know what it is that 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:23.080 you're repeating. You're now if you get up there and 0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:26.560 you wing one hundred presentations, that's not one hundred times 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:30.320 at that. That's kind of like one hundred random things 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:34.680 that you can't put together. So it's that deliberate intension, 0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:39.720 letting go progressively and then being able to go, Okay, 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:42.960 what's this about? Oh that topic? Yeah, I could talk 0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:46.080 on that. Wait how much time to wait? You're changing 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:48.480 the topic. It's five minutes before I go. Can I 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:51.280 talk about Yeah? I could do that, and you just go. 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.640 I hijacked the conversation away from the mentor's remaining though, 0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:04.640 And I want to go back there because I want 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:08.679 to know more about what drew you to the current 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:09.560 context of it. 0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:14.800 I'm not even sure I know. Maybe I just got 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:20.240 old and cantankerously. I was young, hopeful and optimistic and 0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:28.160 now after so many like business ventures failed and broken hearts, 0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:31.119 and who knows, I don't know what the story is 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:33.920 behind that, Or maybe I just have a sobering, more 0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:37.520 balanced perspective. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. 0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:40.239 I know that. When I was in my twenties, I 0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:45.680 was just because I felt like I needed so much momentum, 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:50.320 almost like almost like a you know, I'm flying quantus. 0:24:50.520 --> 0:24:52.760 You got to put that throttle all the way down 0:24:52.840 --> 0:24:54.720 and hold it down if you're ever going to get 0:24:54.720 --> 0:24:56.959 off the runway, and once you get off the runway 0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:59.280 you can pull back on that. I think that's how 0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:02.640 flying goes. But I needed to have that throttle down 0:25:03.520 --> 0:25:06.280 fall on. So for me, everything was about how do 0:25:06.320 --> 0:25:10.760 I use this? Everything's about what's optimistic about this? Where 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:13.600 now I'm kind of more balanced. I'm like, no, there's 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:16.280 not only one type of person that you need to be. 0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:19.360 There's not only you know, one type of thinking that's 0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:23.160 correct thinking. Everything else is not. So I see things 0:25:23.200 --> 0:25:27.720 through so many different lenses and layers because I see 0:25:27.760 --> 0:25:31.960 what's beautiful and inspiring about that book, and I also 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:37.520