1
00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:04,880
Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

2
00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,039
Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life, the average person is never

3
00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,080
Speaker 1: exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.

4
00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,040
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

5
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,200
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

6
00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,560
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

7
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,120
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

8
00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,400
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

9
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,760
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

10
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

11
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,640
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

12
00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,640
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

13
00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,360
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

14
00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,400
Speaker 1: In part two of my chat, we've retired Detective Senior

15
00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,559
Speaker 1: Sergeant Darren Edwards. We talk about how he became an

16
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:57,440
Speaker 1: Internet sensation, his involvement in the arrest of Daniel Morkham's

17
00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,360
Speaker 1: killer Brett Cowen, other murder investigations he was involved in,

18
00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 1: and he's time working as an investigator on the War crimes.

19
00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,120
Speaker 1: We talk about a lot of things, all related to policing,

20
00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,240
Speaker 1: and as you will hear Darren is the type of

21
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,280
Speaker 1: detective you want on your case. He's one of the

22
00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:18,360
Speaker 1: good guys. Darren. I was going to wait till after

23
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,560
Speaker 1: or towards the end of this part two to show

24
00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,920
Speaker 1: you this, but I can't help myself and I want

25
00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,760
Speaker 1: to get it out now, so I thought stuff it.

26
00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,520
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a detective. If you're a detective, you

27
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,880
Speaker 1: know you prepare for the interview room, and consider this

28
00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,960
Speaker 1: an interview room. I'm now going to play you Exhibit A,

29
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,400
Speaker 1: and I want you to comment on that. After I've

30
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,640
Speaker 1: played this. You're not obliged to say anything or do

31
00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,200
Speaker 1: anything unless you wish to do so. But whatever you

32
00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,680
Speaker 1: say or do may later be used in evidence. Do

33
00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:49,320
Speaker 1: you understand that I understand that? Okay, Exhibit A or there's.

34
00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:55,520
Speaker 2: Damage there, I'm not one hundred percent on that.

35
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:08,519
Speaker 1: Yes, you were you cover the cover? All right, Darren?

36
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 1: Where do I start with that? What we just witness there?

37
00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,560
Speaker 1: I'll describe what I saw and then you can offer

38
00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,360
Speaker 1: explanation and remember your under caution here and if you

39
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,480
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this and you want to watch

40
00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,639
Speaker 1: Darren's classic tackle, go to the Eye Catch Killer's YouTube

41
00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,880
Speaker 1: channel and you can see it. You're in the middle

42
00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,200
Speaker 1: of a live TV interview and the commotion you hear

43
00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:38,360
Speaker 1: in the background is someone running. Obviously app's been up

44
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,880
Speaker 1: to no good. You, in a split second have turned

45
00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,360
Speaker 1: looked process and decided to launch yourself in what I'd

46
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,160
Speaker 1: say is as a state of origin style tackle and

47
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,040
Speaker 1: just belted this blake into the ground. You tell That's

48
00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,040
Speaker 1: what I observed, Darren. I still to this day think

49
00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,959
Speaker 1: it was one of the most impressive pieces of police

50
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,359
Speaker 1: I've ever seen, and also one of the most funniest.

51
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,079
Speaker 1: Talk us through what happened there.

52
00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think it was a bit of a

53
00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,280
Speaker 2: like a natural type of reaction, Like I played football

54
00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,560
Speaker 2: for many years and it's someone's running, and you know,

55
00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:15,920
Speaker 2: what are you going to do? And he could have

56
00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:20,680
Speaker 2: gone past, And like it was only split second before

57
00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,160
Speaker 2: I actually tackled him. I realized who he was because

58
00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,320
Speaker 2: you come and interrupted that press conference which was about

59
00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:31,720
Speaker 2: a fraud matter, I think by memory earlier and anyway,

60
00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,839
Speaker 2: But to me, it was just like instinct, Like it's

61
00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,400
Speaker 2: not all that clear, but when I was listening, when

62
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,080
Speaker 2: I was doing the interview, I could hear this comments

63
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,880
Speaker 2: from the father in the background to work before you

64
00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,040
Speaker 2: can really hear it on the mics. I could hear

65
00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,480
Speaker 2: what was going on in the background, and then all

66
00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:51,960
Speaker 2: of a sudden, you've got an offender running. And it

67
00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,800
Speaker 2: was just an instinct, to be honest, I'm just going

68
00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:56,960
Speaker 2: to stop this guying old tackling. That's the only way

69
00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,520
Speaker 2: I know. It was always tackled away. I was very,

70
00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,000
Speaker 2: very fair type of footballer girl. I was tackled like anyway.

71
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,120
Speaker 2: So that's how it happened. But as I said, even

72
00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,360
Speaker 2: you play it from the whole thing. He'd come and

73
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,240
Speaker 2: interrupted the press conference earlier.

74
00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,120
Speaker 1: How dare you interrupt your press conference?

75
00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,720
Speaker 2: And I realized he had a few issues and anyway,

76
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,960
Speaker 2: he because I remember looking at his charge sheet and

77
00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 2: I realized he got out of court or whatever, and

78
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:28,800
Speaker 2: I had a look at his charge. When you see

79
00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,040
Speaker 2: he charges, you know that makes sense. You're a public nuisance.

80
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,560
Speaker 2: But I didn't realize it was the same guy until

81
00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:35,640
Speaker 2: I was just about.

82
00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:37,960
Speaker 1: Exactly as you're flying me there.

83
00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, I suppose I'm just there

84
00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,240
Speaker 2: in my suit and I hadn't been footy training for

85
00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,360
Speaker 2: a while, and he's running and I'm going to tackle him,

86
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,560
Speaker 2: and it's funny. I had the blood you notice on

87
00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,960
Speaker 2: my head was I'd actually had a couple of sun

88
00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,560
Speaker 2: skin cancers burned off only a day or so before,

89
00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,560
Speaker 2: so all the blisters. So when my skin rubbed on

90
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,359
Speaker 2: his pants or tackling, that's what that That's what that was.

91
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't hurt myself or anything, and I

92
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,159
Speaker 2: haven't that There was a garden bed there they cleaned

93
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 2: out in front of that. It was kind of on

94
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,920
Speaker 2: the edge of that. And I know I had dirt

95
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,400
Speaker 2: and mud on the back of my suit. And I

96
00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,919
Speaker 2: even took the suit the dry cleaners. They wouldn't charge me.

97
00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,080
Speaker 2: I wanted to do it and take fart as of

98
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:19,440
Speaker 2: the suit. It was quite funny.

99
00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,320
Speaker 1: Well, a couple of questions that flow on from that.

100
00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:23,839
Speaker 1: Did you go back to your press conference.

101
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,599
Speaker 2: I wouldn't finish the press I didn't think a lot

102
00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,240
Speaker 2: about it, And you know, one of the bosses, uniform inspectors,

103
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,320
Speaker 2: we say, are you are right? So I just went

104
00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,800
Speaker 2: and carried on my carroll on my day, you know.

105
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,640
Speaker 2: And then when I was finishing work, I walked out

106
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,960
Speaker 2: the front and Channel seven reporter, the main guy that

107
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,760
Speaker 2: did was doing the fraud conference. He's out the front

108
00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,640
Speaker 2: and he suit with a tie on, doing this press conference.

109
00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 2: And I said him, what's going on? Is this something

110
00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,320
Speaker 2: else going on? And he says, oh, I know today

111
00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,479
Speaker 2: that's bigger than anything, you know. Really Anyway, I went

112
00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:05,080
Speaker 2: home then I realized had a miscor from my sister

113
00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,640
Speaker 2: who I went to her wedding in Italy years you know,

114
00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,600
Speaker 2: a couple of years before. And then I got home

115
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:15,200
Speaker 2: my party said, so what happened today? Nothing really, just

116
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,920
Speaker 2: I don't think anything of it. I just sort there

117
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,839
Speaker 2: was some you know, some peanut run around upsetting, you know,

118
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:27,920
Speaker 2: and I do it does anyone that interferes or tries upset? Yeah?

119
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,119
Speaker 2: Attack or you know, I got two daughters. Women should

120
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,200
Speaker 2: able to go around the street with getting some grub,

121
00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,960
Speaker 2: making comments about their short skirt and all the rest

122
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,159
Speaker 2: of it and things like that, which he was doing

123
00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:45,120
Speaker 2: as I found out, and that, you know, whilst the

124
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,839
Speaker 2: father yelling out and something about the girl and a

125
00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,880
Speaker 2: bloke running. That's enough for me. That was my brain

126
00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,839
Speaker 2: reaction and a tackling. I just didn't realize it was

127
00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:57,360
Speaker 2: going to have the effect that it did.

128
00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:02,120
Speaker 1: Well, you're a very humble hum What I liked about

129
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 1: it was the processing. You're clearly not a ditherer in police,

130
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,839
Speaker 1: because in policing we get a lot of people that

131
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,360
Speaker 1: dither a little bit. You in a split second or

132
00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:16,360
Speaker 1: a millisecond said okay, offender running Darren, must tackle, and

133
00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,960
Speaker 1: you've gone and you've launched yourself. The reaction after it,

134
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,400
Speaker 1: you went viral, and I think you end up doing

135
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,600
Speaker 1: conferences about your tackle and getting critiqued on your tackling side.

136
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,880
Speaker 2: I did. But I look, even one morning I had

137
00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,480
Speaker 2: to do from Good Morning America some Prague in one

138
00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,400
Speaker 2: morning because I remember this guy from the Territor and

139
00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,040
Speaker 2: he won't mind me saying his name, Hughsy Jeff Hughs

140
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,200
Speaker 2: used to work in the territory, used to smash men tennis.

141
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,800
Speaker 2: But anyway, he's a very fit, tall where he's lived

142
00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,920
Speaker 2: in the States for years. Anyway, he's saying I got

143
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,280
Speaker 2: stuff from him on Facebook and he saw that morning program,

144
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,280
Speaker 2: and you know, they just loved that. They said, I

145
00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,480
Speaker 2: know this guy, but it's just wol I just couldn't

146
00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:03,680
Speaker 2: believe it. But the main point I was sorry I

147
00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,600
Speaker 2: was getting out was that that should be a copper's

148
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:12,000
Speaker 2: reaction for someone who's hassling some female on the street

149
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,240
Speaker 2: that that should be the reaction. I heard enough I

150
00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,320
Speaker 2: processed in my mind and for him running, he was,

151
00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,240
Speaker 2: I don't play grabs, you I never played grabs, and well,

152
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,600
Speaker 2: that's what I'm going to do tackling. You've chased enough offenders.

153
00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,360
Speaker 2: You get talking to him, you know they're going to

154
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,920
Speaker 2: cut for it, and exactly and they can't run without legs,

155
00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:31,760
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

156
00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 1: That's that's the and the state of origin hero. While

157
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,160
Speaker 1: we lewis critiquing your tackling, So what was his opinion.

158
00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,960
Speaker 2: On I got a call from t GB mister Hadley

159
00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,520
Speaker 2: having to talk about it, and then then he said

160
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,280
Speaker 2: to me, oh, by the way, Wally said, you got

161
00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,440
Speaker 2: your head in the wrong place, and I thought, oh,

162
00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,200
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm in my suitor. Wasn't It wasn't like

163
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,440
Speaker 2: a front rower running up to me in the line

164
00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:01,640
Speaker 2: of defense, you know, tackling the sprinting Hungarian. And from

165
00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,600
Speaker 2: the sides, I thought it had a pretty good job.

166
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,600
Speaker 1: If that's the only thing you ever achieved in your

167
00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,120
Speaker 1: policing career, you could retire, retire happy because, as I said,

168
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:12,640
Speaker 1: I think it's a classic. I'm just going to ask

169
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,520
Speaker 1: this question. Do you joggers safe if they're running past you?

170
00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,640
Speaker 1: Can you process it? You're not liking the tack dog.

171
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,360
Speaker 2: It's funny every now and I get comments and I'm

172
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,800
Speaker 2: walking recently and I was working in Brisbane. I was

173
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,319
Speaker 2: walking in the street and someone someone was running past,

174
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 2: and I heard these guys talk me high and they

175
00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,240
Speaker 2: turned about too young blake from homicide and they go,

176
00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:39,280
Speaker 2: don't tackling, mate. It's funny, and then you get sized up.

177
00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,000
Speaker 2: I remember like being in Dan Murphy's one day and

178
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,320
Speaker 2: I saw this guy was stalking me and he's a

179
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,240
Speaker 2: big kiwi guy and then he circles around and I've

180
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,360
Speaker 2: got my little basket full of wine and he comes

181
00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,839
Speaker 2: up and he says, you're that guy, aren't you. I

182
00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,600
Speaker 2: don't know if it was some offence or something. I said,

183
00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:58,680
Speaker 2: that was a good tackle man, and then he just

184
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,360
Speaker 2: walks off. But you just don't know. And this is

185
00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,840
Speaker 2: years later. It's funny how people recognize you what it is,

186
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,360
Speaker 2: but look at it. It gave people some enjoyment.

187
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,040
Speaker 1: Well, what I liked about it. It strips down the

188
00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,120
Speaker 1: most basic thing. When you joined the cops, good versus evil,

189
00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,280
Speaker 1: and you were the good guy you and there was

190
00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,079
Speaker 1: a bad guy and bang it's done. Did you ever

191
00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,040
Speaker 1: consider what would have happened if you missed the tackle?

192
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:31,120
Speaker 1: I'll point out, I wouldn't have you on the podcast.

193
00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,559
Speaker 2: Our district superintendent, he said, and what if you had

194
00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,640
Speaker 2: a missed And I said, that just made me feel sick,

195
00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,560
Speaker 2: And I actually I wake up one night with Pat

196
00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,600
Speaker 2: saying in my head, nothing I heard. This didn't happen,

197
00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,800
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, no one would have wanted I would

198
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:48,800
Speaker 2: have been the laughing stock.

199
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,960
Speaker 1: You wouldn't. You wouldn't be here I have. I'd probably

200
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:53,760
Speaker 1: have Howard Hickey here instead.

201
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,599
Speaker 2: That's a fair, fair question. But well I'm glad that

202
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,800
Speaker 2: I didn't miss many tackles. I have to say for myself,

203
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,120
Speaker 2: I had a pretty good strike right as a forward.

204
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,080
Speaker 1: Good on you. You deserve to talk it up. But yeah,

205
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,960
Speaker 1: it was great and I think all jokes aside. I

206
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,760
Speaker 1: think it typifies the type of cop that you roll

207
00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,160
Speaker 1: up your sleeves and just get in there and do

208
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:21,880
Speaker 1: your job. Okay, that's the lighthearted situation. I want to

209
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:26,040
Speaker 1: take us back to a crime that people all across

210
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,880
Speaker 1: Australia for me, with the abduction and murder of Daniel Morecambe.

211
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,160
Speaker 1: He was thirteen years of age at the time. We

212
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,760
Speaker 1: talked in part one about your involvement in locking up

213
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,200
Speaker 1: the person that was eventually convicted of Daniel Morcambe's murder,

214
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,199
Speaker 1: and he's currently in prison. You locked him up when

215
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,760
Speaker 1: you're working in the Northern Territory for a very serious,

216
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,880
Speaker 1: serious crime. He did his time in prison, got out

217
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,720
Speaker 1: and then it led to what happened to Daniel, which

218
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,800
Speaker 1: was horrific and I think it touched everyone in the country.

219
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,360
Speaker 1: Tell us about your involvement in that investigation, just from

220
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,040
Speaker 1: your observations and your involvement in it.

221
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, as I said, i'd come from the Northern Territory.

222
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,880
Speaker 2: I can remember getting old on the old computer system

223
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,560
Speaker 2: that was there at the time and putting his name

224
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,040
Speaker 2: because when he was arrested up in the territory, I

225
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,479
Speaker 2: knew come from Sunshine Coast area, so did I originally,

226
00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,840
Speaker 2: and so I remember printing out where he lived and

227
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,360
Speaker 2: later on it did service that the information we got

228
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 2: he driven pass, so he was connected there and that

229
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,840
Speaker 2: was when I was a homicide and I went up

230
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,720
Speaker 2: there working on that job for the time. As time

231
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:42,280
Speaker 2: went on, obviously went onto other investigations. But then later

232
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,280
Speaker 2: on in twenty eleven, I got the role there at

233
00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:50,640
Speaker 2: the Sunshine Coast as ICSIB. Some work had been done

234
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:56,200
Speaker 2: progressing on him and as it turned out, they were

235
00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,280
Speaker 2: able to get him back to the coast. And I

236
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,960
Speaker 2: think it was in Augut eleven. It was down in

237
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:09,600
Speaker 2: the forestry area or the bush area there and he

238
00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:10,679
Speaker 2: was arrested.

239
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,760
Speaker 1: And the circumstances is coming there and I think people

240
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,800
Speaker 1: were aware of there was an undercover office credit involved

241
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:23,040
Speaker 1: in it, and you were hiding the bush or covertly

242
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,719
Speaker 1: in the in the bush. What was the purpose of

243
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,079
Speaker 1: Cohen going to that location?

244
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,719
Speaker 2: The covits have got him there because he was purportedly

245
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,959
Speaker 2: be part of this gang and ire worried that people

246
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,360
Speaker 2: knew who he was. So if he got some focus

247
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,839
Speaker 2: again on him, it would draw attention to that group

248
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:46,199
Speaker 2: he was mixing with supposedly criminal crime Green and they

249
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,400
Speaker 2: wanted some guarantees that was no there was no obvious

250
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,920
Speaker 2: remains going to be able to be seen or found.

251
00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,640
Speaker 2: So he was coaxing going to that location. And he

252
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,960
Speaker 2: gave the indication there was an embankment and he'd said

253
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,079
Speaker 2: I tossed the boy over here.

254
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,679
Speaker 1: And so he was. He was actually showing where the

255
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,160
Speaker 1: cover place where the body body was. Daniel's body was.

256
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,960
Speaker 2: In the Glasshouse Mountains area there and as it turned out,

257
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,680
Speaker 2: decision was made to arrest him there on that spot.

258
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,040
Speaker 2: Later on a lot of good work by the SEES

259
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 2: local a S has put amount of time into that

260
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:29,280
Speaker 2: area and the remains unfortunately, well fortunately or unfortunately were

261
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 2: found of Daniel very quickly and that firmed up that

262
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,280
Speaker 2: he'd taken him there and it actually killed him in

263
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,960
Speaker 2: a small demandable. That demand of was actually gone, but

264
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,760
Speaker 2: it was moved and it was actually put behind another

265
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:49,400
Speaker 2: house in Landsborough that it was used being used, so

266
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,360
Speaker 2: it was of no forensic value by things have been

267
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,400
Speaker 2: cleaned out, repainting all the rest of it, but it

268
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,640
Speaker 2: fit in the scene and the fact he took them

269
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,040
Speaker 2: to that spot of acres of for him to be

270
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,200
Speaker 2: able to take to that spot and gay I chucked

271
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,040
Speaker 2: his body over there. It didn't take long to find.

272
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,600
Speaker 2: I think we found his skateboard shoes initially and there

273
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,240
Speaker 2: was some bones and that was happened fairly quickly, so

274
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,040
Speaker 2: that was good. But once you know it's funny to

275
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,560
Speaker 2: be it's not funny, but it's unusual for me to

276
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,520
Speaker 2: have been involved his arrest in nineteen ninety three, go

277
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,960
Speaker 2: to homicide and later on, oh I see there. It's

278
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:32,160
Speaker 2: a full circle manager for that supposedly for that job

279
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,720
Speaker 2: going on there a homicide, was running it and everything

280
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,880
Speaker 2: with the locals, detectives, and then being there when he's

281
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,600
Speaker 2: arrested that many years later for a climb and he

282
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,880
Speaker 2: talks about strangling him and that's what he did to

283
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:49,280
Speaker 2: that little boy and Matthew in Dahn. So it was

284
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,960
Speaker 2: a really unusual set of circumstances.

285
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,920
Speaker 1: How did it feel for you personally seeing him being

286
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 1: arrested that all being present during his arrest for Daniels.

287
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,000
Speaker 2: I think a good outcome, you know, not the best

288
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,160
Speaker 2: outcome of the one of the sunback for the Morcambe,

289
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 2: but we talked about earlier that's it brings an outcome,

290
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,400
Speaker 2: and when he was convicted, even better and all that

291
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,000
Speaker 2: information in the inquest come out about the incident of

292
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,400
Speaker 2: the territory. We were pretty annoyed that they hadn't run

293
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,840
Speaker 2: with charging with attempted murder and you know a lot

294
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:23,520
Speaker 2: of the guys said, you know, things might have been

295
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,760
Speaker 2: different if it had been serving eight to nine years

296
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,240
Speaker 2: for tempted murder in Darwin. Yeah, Daniel might not happen.

297
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,840
Speaker 2: It's a stretch of the bow, I know. But a

298
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,520
Speaker 2: lot of police they have that attitude and maybe the

299
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,400
Speaker 2: morcams do too. But at least there was some type

300
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:45,240
Speaker 2: of satisfaction that he was court convicted and Daniel's remains

301
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:47,880
Speaker 2: were like it And that's what I talk about. We

302
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,200
Speaker 2: talked about Jessica Goudy. That's the importance of finding those

303
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:57,000
Speaker 2: persons remains is very important for sure.

304
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,000
Speaker 1: Brett Town, how long was he sense? For what did he?

305
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,200
Speaker 2: He got sentence of life imprisonment and there's a lot

306
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,919
Speaker 2: of changes to her around life imprisonment now. But I

307
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,160
Speaker 2: could never I think they're recommendations. No, probably I could

308
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:10,639
Speaker 2: never see him ever getting pro.

309
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that's justifiable. It is a horrible, horrible crime.

310
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:19,280
Speaker 1: Denise and Bruce Malcombe, He's parents. They were tireless in

311
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 1: trying to get justice.

312
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,440
Speaker 2: Weren't they They were?

313
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:26,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and still heavily involved. And you see the toilet

314
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:33,800
Speaker 1: that takes on people like that. That's the nature of homicide.

315
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 1: Have you got any cases and then you spend a

316
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:40,359
Speaker 1: long time in homicide cases that stick with stick with you.

317
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just think sometimes you come across case and

318
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,880
Speaker 2: they're just needless, like homicide, they're just needless. One people said,

319
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 2: I was anything that stick in your mind that you

320
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 2: saw that has an effect, and the one one does

321
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,800
Speaker 2: And it's a scene where you think this isn't real

322
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 2: and it's a fairly simple scene. And I think it

323
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,840
Speaker 2: was two thousand and eight, and this is another needless murder.

324
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,560
Speaker 2: We're working on. An old guy. He was a truck

325
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 2: driver from I think Twilma Dolby area. He retires. His

326
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,959
Speaker 2: interests is grayhounds. He buys his property near Kibulcher and

327
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 2: it's got a kennel's for grayhand it's a bit of

328
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 2: a training track. That's his hobby. His wife had died

329
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:23,920
Speaker 2: of cancer and I know in his bedroom he had

330
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,160
Speaker 2: his wife's favorite dress and it used to hang there

331
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,159
Speaker 2: every day. That's when he woke up he saw his

332
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 2: wife's favorite dress. Anyway, how long story short, he bought

333
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,919
Speaker 2: this property. Unbeknown to him, a drug dealer used to

334
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 2: own it beforehand and had secreted drugs in walls. These

335
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,200
Speaker 2: crooks go, they think the drug dealer is still there.

336
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,080
Speaker 2: Getting there cost him one of the fellows. I'll say

337
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,280
Speaker 2: his name. He's doing life for murder. Rocky Coombs shoots

338
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,320
Speaker 2: him in the head. Well, there was just needless. They

339
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,960
Speaker 2: had the wrong person. This pile man in his retirement

340
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,360
Speaker 2: doing his hobby, gets murder in his home. Now we're

341
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,160
Speaker 2: up there at Kucher working on that at the time,

342
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,639
Speaker 2: and it was New Year's I'm pretty sure it was

343
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,639
Speaker 2: Newye's day. Get a phone calls there looks like a

344
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 2: kid's being murdered at Briby Island, which is down the Raid.

345
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 2: And I go there and I go it's a house

346
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 2: that was rendered for as a holiday house. I walk

347
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 2: in the room the scenes of crime guy and what

348
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,560
Speaker 2: on the bed is this ten year old girl. She

349
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,720
Speaker 2: had all her hair hacked and cut back, and she's

350
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 2: just laying there with a huge knife out of her chest,

351
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 2: just lying there's still with this big knife and I'm

352
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 2: looking at it and on scenes of crime and I said,

353
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,640
Speaker 2: it doesn't look real, you know. As it turned out,

354
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,360
Speaker 2: the father of that child had bad mental health issues

355
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,040
Speaker 2: and got caught later and murder. The girl had some

356
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 2: you know, thinking she's a demon and all this type

357
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,639
Speaker 2: of stuff, but that you know, when you're doing a

358
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 2: senseless murder. And then you get to see that within

359
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,440
Speaker 2: days later once we've sold it because we had sold

360
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,159
Speaker 2: the other one, and then you go and see that

361
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,400
Speaker 2: kid lying there with a knife of that, you think, well,

362
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,159
Speaker 2: what the hell is that? You know? And I suppose that.

363
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,359
Speaker 2: I don't think I've had a lot of things that

364
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 2: affect me, but it's there's some things that I think.

365
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:11,679
Speaker 2: And then the other thing I did when I was

366
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,920
Speaker 2: in the territory, there was these people are being in

367
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 2: a dobeman that was vicious and no one could get

368
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 2: near that. It was like an acre block. They bamused

369
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 2: and left this poor dog there was emaciated. RSPCA couldn't

370
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 2: get near it. They were trying to dart it, but

371
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,879
Speaker 2: it was just too vicious, and then we had to

372
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,160
Speaker 2: shoot it. Not to shoot this dog dead, but I thought, well,

373
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 2: assholes do that to an animal, you know, then the

374
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 2: coppers have to come and shoot the porn Almy was

375
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 2: doing nothing wrong. You know. It seems such a vast

376
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 2: extremity of incidents that stick in your head, but it's bizarre.

377
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 2: But there's things like that, and I one thing, it's

378
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 2: if I see someone being cruel to a dog, I

379
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,360
Speaker 2: really stop and crop and if they don't stop, I'll

380
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 2: say something. You know, it's funny, isn't it.

381
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,160
Speaker 1: It's funny things that stick with you. But the way

382
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,160
Speaker 1: that you described that, I underst seeing where you're coming from.

383
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,199
Speaker 1: Like with homicide, sometimes you get there, just deal with

384
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: a job, but it accumulates and you think that's a

385
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,359
Speaker 1: waste of time. And I had I had periods of

386
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 1: time in my career too when the fan and ring

387
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 1: and you think, I don't want to go out and

388
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 1: just see zee someone dead. But that that was the

389
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 1: that was the nature of the work. You spent a

390
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 1: long time in homicide. But then you went to yeah,

391
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: well you've paid your dues because you've worked in some

392
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: tough places. But you ended up on the Sunshine Case.

393
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 2: I certainly as to get told I had the best

394
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 2: job in Queensland.

395
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

396
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I used to tell people that don't wait

397
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 2: for the job to be advertised, you just locked yourself

398
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 2: And I did. I spent I think ten nearly ten

399
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,159
Speaker 2: nearly eleven years.

400
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: There And what was your what was your role there?

401
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? I was the IC in charge of the Sunshine

402
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 2: Case CB. It's a pretty big area. You had CBS

403
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 2: at Clownder and amble Roochie Door Nusa Kwana, so you

404
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,440
Speaker 2: had a big area and we had a good team

405
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 2: and it's a busy place. It's a very busy, big

406
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 2: tourist influx, but a very supportive community and I think

407
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 2: that's still today. And that part of that media stuff there,

408
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,400
Speaker 2: I used to do it a lot because those young journals,

409
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 2: that's their business. They need stuff. And I thought it

410
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 2: was a good way to tell the community or here

411
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 2: we've arrested this guy, or we need your help with this.

412
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 2: This is an outcome. Please don't scams are happening. You know,

413
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,400
Speaker 2: I don't listen to these phone calls.

414
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: You know.

415
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,680
Speaker 2: It was a way of working with the community, which

416
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 2: was as I said, was and I think it still

417
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 2: is a good supportive community of police.

418
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 1: So that was well. I think the media should be

419
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 1: looked at as a tool that supports and enhances personally

420
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 1: sending messages out, giving them warnings, giving the confidence that yeah,

421
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 1: the police are on top of this. It's an important role.

422
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 1: But the beauty of that position not it only is

423
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 1: a good location, but you've got to keep your hand

424
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 1: in criminal investigation and in part experits on people there.

425
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 2: Look and look part of that, and I said, there

426
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 2: was quite a You know, sexual offenses occur, happens in

427
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 2: every community, but I just like to see an outcome

428
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 2: for that as soon as possible. You know you're going

429
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 2: to have sexual assaults, and some of them are through

430
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 2: There wasn't a lot of sexual assaults like where people

431
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 2: are just attack walking down the street, but you want

432
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 2: them not to happen as well. And when we did

433
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 2: clear up an older sexual assault matter through DNA for

434
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 2: a sexual offender who was in jail in New South

435
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 2: Wales and he'd also done one in South Australia, we

436
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 2: managed to get him to clean him up and we

437
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 2: talked earlier. We managed to transfer in prison to Queensland

438
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 2: and get him to deal with But you know what,

439
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 2: that's it brings an outcome, even after allmen of them years,

440
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 2: there's an outcome for someone instead of them. I wonder

441
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 2: what happened to that guy that did that to me,

442
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden the outcome that must

443
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: be better than nothing. And you use that as avention

444
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 2: thing as well as Hey, these offenders are out there.

445
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 2: And I used to go to meetings I was part

446
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: of a team from the hospital nurses and to better

447
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 2: support victims of sexual assault. And there was a very

448
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 2: good supporting agency at the cost for counseling and what

449
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 2: have you, but also as a brand new hospital Sunshine Case,

450
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 2: and there was a designated area for examinations because obviously

451
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 2: DNA is a very important evidence and the way it's

452
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 2: collected and how the victims, that initial treatment of the

453
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 2: victim is very important, and to try and get them

454
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 2: in a facility where they don't have to sit in

455
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 2: accident emergency exactly, and we can go on this prior

456
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 2: to go a back entrance into the hospital in the

457
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 2: A and E. And so I was part of the

458
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 2: crowd that got that and make sure we get that

459
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: support full of victims. As I said, I got two daughters,

460
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 2: so it yeah, I just and I remember as a

461
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 2: young Blake, if there was like a girl she was

462
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 2: a bit intoxicated or something, and there lectures hanging around,

463
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 2: and we used to protect them, you know. And I

464
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 2: don't know if it probably does happen now with.

465
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: Pim, but still I think it still happens.

466
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, But you know, I suppose that's just that's

467
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 2: just me. What I grew up with that.

468
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're the values that's been still exactly the values

469
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: that we all should have. With the one you were

470
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: talking about the South Australia and New South Wales and

471
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: the DNA. Talk us through that one. How were they linked?

472
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a sexual solo that in a unit

473
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: at Ruchie Door and I think look, I think it

474
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 2: was about like nineteen ninety four or something like that

475
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 2: when the database, you know, you started to develop around

476
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 2: the national data they re random again and it came

477
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: up and then we found out he'd gone to South

478
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: Australian pleaded with some and they're very similar type of circumstances.

479
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 2: And yeah, one of the detective sergeant and he did

480
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 2: that before he retired. We really pushed that and he

481
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: got that done and got him back. And because I'd

482
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: done that, Eric Maray transfer. There's not a lot of

483
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: coppers understand that Interstate Transfer of Prisoners Act exists, which

484
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 2: all the states are signatures to. So I had all

485
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: the reports about that, so he's able to follow that

486
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 2: process because it's a bit daunting to some, but we

487
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 2: managed to get it done and got him back and pleaded,

488
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 2: you know, twenty something years later thirty years later, so's

489
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: you can put the effort in still later and get

490
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: a result.

491
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: And it does help. So what other type of crimes

492
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: are you dealing with on the Sunshine Case Because you've

493
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: gone from the wild West in Northern Territory and then

494
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: homicide and all the horror and things that homicide bring.

495
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: We've talked sexual assaults on the Sunshine Case. What are

496
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 1: the other type of contemporary Because you've been retired what

497
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:48,719
Speaker 1: two years now?

498
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 2: I had to retire at sixty in twenty twenty two.

499
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 2: I kept working, doing a bit of work, as you know.

500
00:26:55,080 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: But the other thing then I think was a victim

501
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: of technology. Some Shine Case twenty percent are probably over

502
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 2: sixty five year old something like that. So we had

503
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 2: a lot of older people. They're subjective scams and what

504
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 2: have you. So that was a real focus and hence

505
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: that what happened that day at the Tackle was about

506
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 2: a fraud batter and it's prevention and trying to educate

507
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 2: older people, especially who aren't that I failed. You know

508
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 2: a lot of older people are they take people on

509
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 2: face grant, they don't think everyone's coming with you, And

510
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: I were thinking, this guy's talking to me. I don't know,

511
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 2: I'll be thinking the words he's trying to scam me

512
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: or rip me off or you know where people older

513
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 2: people don't have that. No, they take everyone face well,

514
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 2: that they're one.

515
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: First. I've had conversations that weren't embarrassed with my mum,

516
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: but they sounded very nice on the Yeah, exactly.

517
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 2: And so a lot of that crime prevention was about that,

518
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 2: and there was there was women there that got scammed

519
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: romance schems. You know. One had been used to buy

520
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty third thousand dollars land Cruiser and

521
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: then they stopped another company. There was nearly a loss

522
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,239
Speaker 2: of a million dollars. They managed to intercept it. This

523
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 2: woman had been news for that. She lost her car.

524
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: But it's hard to once I go that far, it's

525
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 2: hard to bring them back, you know, they just can't

526
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 2: see it. And prevention is a big thing. So that

527
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 2: was a big focus for me at the Sunshine Coast

528
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: for sure.

529
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: Okay, now you mentioned the sixty year retirement in Queensland place.

530
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: We don't have that in New South Wales. I'm not

531
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: sure other jurisdictions, but it's correct me if I'm wrong,

532
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: Because our good mate Howard Hickey. He retired, but he

533
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: went back and he could do some work. You could

534
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: work part time. What's the process there. Yeah, I think

535
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: that's a great idea.

536
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's coming back in there. There's

537
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: a lot of Look recently, I was doing work in

538
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 2: our ethical Standards area where it was just working in

539
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: relation to staff members in discipline areas, so I had

540
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: no powers of please, I did no criminal aspects. And

541
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: how I'd actually got a job as an administration officer

542
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 2: working in the cold case team and because they had

543
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: knowledge of a lot of the old cases makes sense exactly.

544
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: And for what you're going to be paid at that level,

545
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of money. And otherwise you're going

546
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: to be paying detective sergeant a lot of money on

547
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: shift work to do the same thing what Howard could

548
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 2: have been doing as a And that was the idea

549
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 2: about it, and I think they're starting to come around that,

550
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: And certainly the Queen's and Police with ethic a Stands

551
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,959
Speaker 2: area have a staff member investigation group that focuses solely

552
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 2: on staff members non criminal and the police don't have

553
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 2: to be doing it.

554
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: We've got a shortage of police across the country, And

555
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: I always think, and I know you guys experienced the

556
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: same thing and other jurisdictions, that the amount of non

557
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: police work that you're actually doing recording keeping, records recorded,

558
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: not records about the criminal investigation, but management type stuff.

559
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: Or yeah, you're a homicide detective. I don't know about you,

560
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: but as yeah, senior homicide detect if. I spent a

561
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: lot of time in front of the failure copier because

562
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: I had the failure copy of briefs because there was

563
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: no one to fail their copy of brief Just a

564
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: simple thing like that would free a lot of people up.

565
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 2: Exactly. Like we talked about how Hickey liked doing his

566
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 2: role there. He could go through an old file because

567
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 2: he experienced he can do a summary to an investigator.

568
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: Say that investigator reading it for two weeks and he

569
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 2: can find all the old statements. He can find everything

570
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: and put its important, there is some avenues here, or

571
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 2: if some information come in, he would say, yeah, that

572
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 2: information relates to this statement, all this statement, and it's

573
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: cost effective and like you could do it. Like we

574
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 2: talked about fraud briefly, a lot of stuff to do

575
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: with fraud investigations could be done by a retired cop.

576
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: You know, they need a serving cop on shiftwork to

577
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 2: do that.

578
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I'm with you, and I think that's we've

579
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: got to move forward, have that flexibility because it's you know,

580
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: people retire from the police and all that experience is lost.

581
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: And yeah, Howard going through it a murder brief, the

582
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: amount of experience he brings just there. Yeah, literally literally

583
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: cases could get solved because you've got someone that knows

584
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: what they're doing. There just a general question here with policing.

585
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: Do you think the crooks have got the advantage or

586
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: the cops have got the advantage in this DNA compared

587
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: to when we joined.

588
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 2: I think it was I think it's coming back around.

589
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 2: We started to gain the advantage back around, Like the

590
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 2: crooks start to get better represented and at our expense,

591
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 2: and not that they're not entitled to it, but I

592
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 2: don't think as some of those defense laws were thinking ahead,

593
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: what's the best outcomeing we get for this guy? And

594
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 2: just but we've got technology came around on our side, then,

595
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 2: you know what I mean to it. I think they

596
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: brought the advantage back around, not just DNA, but just technology.

597
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: GPS's movement of phones and tracking and different things like

598
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 2: that security, the security cameras everywhere that never used to

599
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 2: be anywhere.

600
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: I had an experienced defense list of the Greg Gould

601
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: on the podcast recently and I was asking him because

602
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: he'd been in the courts bashing up on cops for

603
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: for the years and defend defending people. He said his observations,

604
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: the world's changed a little bit in it in our

605
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: early days in playing clothes, a lot hinged on what

606
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: we said, what we saw, because that was the evidence

607
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: that was presented to the court. So you spent a

608
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: lot of time in the witness box. But he said

609
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: police aren't spending as much time in the witness box

610
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: because basically the brief is supported by forensic evidence, whether

611
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: it be CCTV footage or telephone records that type of

612
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: thing or the DNA. So it's changing face there, isn't.

613
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: It it is? And look now if you have always

614
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: a committal hearing, they've got to nominate why they want

615
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: that winness to be cross examinle Whereas years ago I

616
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 2: just expected we want him him and him, and yeah,

617
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 2: you know, and you would. I've got an old murder

618
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: case still from the Gold Cup Hugo Bench was murdered

619
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 2: there in the nineties that we've charged an offender with that,

620
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 2: and that's still ongoing. I'd been to a vard. I

621
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: was there for two days in the box getting hammred

622
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: by a barrister and I'm looking at the guys charged

623
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: with that in the background like an idiot. But that's

624
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 2: the way it is. But what I noticed to Gary,

625
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: when you retire, you don't have to be so conforming

626
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 2: to them. So I was, to be honest with you, I

627
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 2: was given it back to this barrister because I wasn't

628
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: copper his rubbish anymore, but copper anymore? What are they

629
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: going to do to me? So that's still ongoing. But yeah,

630
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the time of the processes

631
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 2: have changed and there's a lot of coppers now. Even

632
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: detectives would have several years experience. You say, have you

633
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: ever given everything a trial? And they go, no, I

634
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 2: hadn't even been there.

635
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: It scares me because unless you've been there, and then

636
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: unless you've you've got the battle scars from the local

637
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: court made and learning this box. Like I would see

638
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: people go in where they haven't got the experience into

639
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: a murder trial, and I think you Paul Barstards, you

640
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: have no idea what you're about to walk into. And

641
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: there's it's in theater. It's intimidation that's making you look

642
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: at in front of in front of the jury. I

643
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: think we've done away with committal hearings to the extent

644
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: that in New South Wales, and I remember how much

645
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: time it felt like you had two trials, didn't it

646
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: because the defense would go for drag the committal out,

647
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: make some more money, find the weakness in the police case,

648
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: and then you'd be doing it again down the track

649
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: in the trial a couple of years later. Now you

650
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: didn't completely retire from policing or criminal investigation because you

651
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: around the same time that you woul due to retire

652
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: from Queensland, you got an offer or your approach to

653
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: work on the war crimes investigation. I'm not sure how

654
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:56,919
Speaker 1: much you can say about that, but.

655
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 2: I have got secrecy agreements with the old A special

656
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: investigator was formed because of the Afghanistan. What I'm telling

657
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 2: is this common knowledge in the media, and I was

658
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 2: able to apply for a circondment, had to do an

659
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 2: application selection interview and what have you, and I ended

660
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 2: up going there in June which was about six or

661
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 2: seven months before I was due to retire, So I

662
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: took that as ayconoment, still working for Queensland Police and

663
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: as I said, I was going to have to retire

664
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: in the following January anyway, and that was good. So

665
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 2: I did that for nearly three years. Interesting work. But

666
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 2: it was more like because it was a homicide I

667
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 2: had a homicide background as well. It was really murder

668
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 2: investigations with specific limitations obviously, where it was what the

669
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: evidence you did or didn't have, and things like that

670
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 2: following that inquiry. But I still found it interesting. You know,

671
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: I did cop a bit of flack off some people sometimes,

672
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: you know about the fact that you were trying to

673
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: essentially lock up our war heroes. Yeah, you got those

674
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: and that's fair enough. I get that, And they didn't

675
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 2: have an understanding of what it was about. Either side

676
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,720
Speaker 2: just took that on facevailue and didn't you didn't react

677
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 2: to it. I got that.

678
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a contentious issue, but it could be

679
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: looked at in different ways. You're not trying to lock

680
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: them up, you're looking at the CFA's evidence. Yeah, seeing

681
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: where the truth lies could assist as much as it

682
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: could could hinder, but yeah, I would imagine that it

683
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: would polarize people and it would be a difficult thing.

684
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: But you enjoyed that, you kept stimulated your mind on what.

685
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: You exactly and like our guys and a team had

686
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 2: a good team, and even some of the soldiers that

687
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: were subject the matter and obviously not going to name anybody,

688
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: I think they had that perception of what we are

689
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 2: who were But when they spoke the investigator Lucky I

690
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 2: had very experienced homicide people team at Queensland Homicide, Victorian Homicide,

691
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 2: their experienced New South while Intel an AFP officer like

692
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: I had a really good team. And when they spoke

693
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 2: to these people, the subjects of those investigations, I think

694
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 2: they had a different view afterwards because I could see

695
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: that we're just doing a job and that we treated

696
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: them fairly.

697
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: It wasn't which.

698
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 2: Exactly right, and so I think overall, you know, it's

699
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 2: still ongoing, so obviously limited to what we say. But I,

700
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 2: for myself, personally, I thought it was good. I've been

701
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 2: coming to Sydney off and on for that many years,

702
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 2: so living here for a couple of years and just

703
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 2: being like a fIF back to the Sunshine case wasn't

704
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 2: such a bad option.

705
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I want to just get a sense, like

706
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: a criminal investigation, what qualities And yeah, I'm not pissing

707
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 1: in your pocket here that you're a good detective. I'm

708
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: interested in what qualities you see that makes a good detective.

709
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 2: I think we talked about a communication. You've just got

710
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 2: to talk to people, and every persons different and you've

711
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 2: got to you've got to quickly realize what this person

712
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 2: will want talk about, or what they're like, or what

713
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: attitude they've got a view, and you've got to change

714
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 2: your vocabulary, change everything, change the way you're looking at,

715
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: change what you So let's go and sit down here

716
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 2: and just do you want a coffee? Mate? All of

717
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 2: a sudden, it's a different scenario, and you know you're

718
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 2: not just some copper having this regulated type of conversations

719
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 2: to someone. Those type of skills are the biggest skills communication,

720
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: and you can't You're not going to learn that at

721
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: the police academy. You're not going to learn it. You'll

722
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 2: get told how about interviewing and learn from psychologists about

723
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 2: you know, people dealing with people. Sure, you get that background,

724
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 2: but those skills, they're learned. They're learned, and I think

725
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 2: maybe it's a type of character you are. You know,

726
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 2: like like you are in a pub probably anywhere when

727
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 2: I was a young black and talk to the old

728
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 2: tanks to me about anything, you know what I mean,

729
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 2: And if they weren't a bug, if he wanted to

730
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 2: talk about this, or talk about football, I'd ever talked

731
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 2: to him about or whatever it might have been. So

732
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 2: I think you do have some natural skills that you

733
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 2: bring in that some people don't.

734
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: Well, it's amazing what you the type of people that

735
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: you get to deal with as a detective. If you

736
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: spent a long time there that you're literally speaking the

737
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: heads of state royalty down to the local junkie on

738
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: the street exactly and the whole range in between, and

739
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 1: you've got to be able to communicate at their level.

740
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: I always thought that was important that yeah, not judging people.

741
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 2: And also there's another thing too I was thinking of

742
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 2: quite honestly, you've got to have a better guts. You've

743
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 2: got to have a bit of moral courage because not

744
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: everyone's going to like it. Not everyone's going to want

745
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 2: to talk to you, and crooks are like dingoes. They'll

746
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 2: smell fere and uh good, that's my my thoughts. I've

747
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 2: always believed that that they smell fear, and the moment

748
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: they smell fear, I'll try and walk all over you.

749
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,439
Speaker 2: And you've got to have that type of front where

750
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 2: you're show that you're not. You might be thinking this

751
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 2: guy is huge. If he starts knuck on me, I'm

752
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 2: going to have to do him invest But unless you've

753
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 2: got that thought process, oh you're half prepared for it.

754
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 2: But they will smell fear, and you've got to it's

755
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 2: your demeanor whether you can overcome that as well. So

756
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: you've got to have a bit of moral courage and.

757
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: The way definitely the way you carry carry yourself. And

758
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: you see it suit with some people, and it might

759
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: be a young detective coming in and there's this whole

760
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: crook that spent more time in an interview room than

761
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: the cop has, and you can see the balance is

762
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: not right. You've got to be able to take criticism

763
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: as a cop too. And I saw people really take

764
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 1: it personally that we go to court and you'd be criticized,

765
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: but we've done nothing wrong. Why are we getting criticized.

766
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: You've got to be a little bit robust. You've got

767
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: to believe in what you're doing and prepared to take

768
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: the people who are going to throw shit back at exactly.

769
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 2: Look, I've had plenty of beers with barrasses after getting

770
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 2: a hiding off them or and have a period of time.

771
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 2: They'd say, listen, you're going to get I'm going to

772
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: hammer you about this, but we'll never be later, and

773
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: that's that's that's fair. And but you're right. And sometimes

774
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 2: you'd be getting cross examined about something and you're thinking,

775
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 2: I wish I'd have done that, or it's a learning

776
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 2: it's a learning process. You never stop learning. You just

777
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 2: never stop learning. But take take a positive away and

778
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 2: go okay. And sometimes you've got to own your mistakes. Yeah, okay,

779
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 2: Yeah I made a mistake. Oh yeah, acknowledge if you're

780
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 2: getting hammer by embarrassed as you know, and you go

781
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 2: you acknowledge a mistake. Yeah I could have done that.

782
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 2: I probably should have take the Well that's the end of.

783
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: It when you're arguing and just not an inch. Yeah,

784
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: but that that comes comes with experience. I got to say,

785
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: with some of the barrisses that I'd go up against

786
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: during my court time, I've had them here on the podcast,

787
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: and I've got to begrudgingly say, and I say that

788
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: half jokingly, that they improved me as a detective because

789
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: I'd come up against them and I go, I'd prepare

790
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: as much as I could walk in there, and they

791
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: the moment that I opened my mouth, they asked me

792
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 1: a question. I think, Fuck, that's a good question. Why

793
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: didn't I think I think of that? But Okay, that's

794
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: what I've learned. So each time you up skills. So

795
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: some of the people that I didn't like in early

796
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: parts of my career, I've got a credit with credit

797
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 1: them with helping me development.

798
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 2: They helped your self improvement because you were in a

799
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 2: way to the next investigation. Remember what you got hamm

800
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 2: about last time. I'm not going to make that mistake again,

801
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: or I'm going to do things a little bit different.

802
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 2: And I'm going to ask this peanut some other things

803
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 2: that I was getting hammon about last time. You know,

804
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 2: it's a learning curve.

805
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're tight and tighten your gamer.

806
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 2: And you shouldn't take it personally. That's that you should get.

807
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 2: And a lot of young ones do they think they're getting.

808
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 2: They get a subject of it, and they I could

809
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 2: still go up to any Barris and I have a

810
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: talk to him later and ask him something. But some

811
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 2: of the young ones didn't have that. I said, you

812
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: just got to accept them.

813
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 1: It's almost it might be a generational thing, but it's

814
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 1: almost like shock. How did someone criticize me? Well, yeah,

815
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:23,439
Speaker 1: that's part and parcel of the job. You've chosen through

816
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: your career. Got some awards and you've got the Australian

817
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: Police Medal, and that's that's a fairly impressive award for

818
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: services to the community like above and beyond them the people.

819
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 1: There's a lot of great cops that have got that award.

820
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,280
Speaker 1: But you also got the Queensland Women in Policing Award.

821
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: And we're very open minded here, Darren, but how did

822
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: you get the woman.

823
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 2: The Queensland one was a recognition, but then I think

824
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 2: it was the following year or something like that. I

825
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 2: got the Australian that QUAP Women Australian Women and Policing

826
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: Award for a champion of change.

827
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, having to get maybe it's the way you tackled.

828
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 2: Or I've got plenty over it.

829
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: Because I was preparing for this, I know a lot

830
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: about you, but I'm flicking through it. How did you

831
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 1: get that all? So you explained it just on record.

832
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 2: When I was a Sanshine Coast particularly, I had some

833
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 2: part time female officers there. They just do a great job,

834
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 2: and I know how they struggle with kids and get

835
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 2: themself to work, kids sick, and I a good relations

836
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 2: with them because I think it was the way I

837
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 2: treated them they hadn't been used to maybe previously. And

838
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 2: I know when they got to work if they had

839
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 2: to be late, or they couldn't they couldn't drop their

840
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 2: kid to the child as he's sick. That to make

841
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: some under rangers they're not going to be there at

842
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 2: five d eight, They're going to be there at quarter

843
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 2: past date. So bit. But they would work extremely hard,

844
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 2: even for the ones doing part time, and I recognized that.

845
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 2: And even though I was in the territory to work

846
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 2: with female detectives, especially when I was young and when

847
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: I first went to the branch, the old detective sergeants

848
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: didn't want to work with the female detectives. That was

849
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 2: the way it was, and I'd always end up working

850
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 2: with them, especially the sexual assault matter, as we're always

851
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,280
Speaker 2: doing it was a bit of old school. The female

852
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: detectives interview the female victim, I do the trouble trying

853
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 2: to round up the offender and what have you. But

854
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 2: I work really nice to see how they managed ship

855
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 2: work with children and all that. And I appreciated that

856
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 2: I struggled themself to get myself to work lettlone have

857
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 2: to manage two kids, and even if they were married

858
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: and everything. Women looked at the kids better than men,

859
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 2: especially back then, and I just had an appreciate of it.

860
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 2: That award I didn't know I was getting nominated, was

861
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 2: nominated by the girls that worked in my well there

862
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 2: at the Sunshine Coast and another officer they nominated me

863
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 2: for it, and.

864
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: Well at old Jakes aside, I think you should be

865
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: proud of that. I really do, because what you've said

866
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: is so true and I see and we don't have

867
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: enough women in certainly criminal investigation because of the type

868
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: of things you're talking about. And if you can give

869
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: them that little bit of assistance and it doesn't cost anything,

870
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: of course, and to me create a happy work environ.

871
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 2: A pressure off them. Yeah, not to have say they

872
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 2: say I'll buy some I'm sorry, I'm going to be

873
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 2: ten minutes like that. You don't need to apologize when

874
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: they come in and say come when you can. Don't

875
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 2: worry about ring up and getting stressed out, you know

876
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 2: what I mean, There's no need. We'll send me a

877
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 2: text hey kids sick, be late. That's it.

878
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: That's the way. And it's that old school thinking going, oh,

879
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: that's why women shouldn't be in the cops. They add

880
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: to every investigation I've been on. If I have a

881
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: woman on the strike force, it gives a balance. Otherwise

882
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: you've got buffhead blokes thinking one way. And quite often

883
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: discussions you have with the difficult investigations of woman's perspective

884
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 1: on it quite often change it changes you're thinking.

885
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 2: Look when I got that award and it was a

886
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 2: functioning pin, I didn't expect that.

887
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: What frock did you wear there?

888
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 2: And I had I was quite quite a good as

889
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,439
Speaker 2: I said, I didn't expect that to get it at all,

890
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 2: and it was a bit of a shock and I'd

891
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 2: had nothing prepared. And the same thing I talked about, Well,

892
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: one of the ladies I used to work with, and

893
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 2: Angie Smith now she was Angie Brad Then I remember

894
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 2: we're going out for a sexual assault. We're going back

895
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: to her place, so I'm just going to get a

896
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 2: husband and given my a hand with the kids. We'll

897
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 2: go back, have a cup tea and a bit of

898
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 2: taste or something, and then we'll go back and try

899
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 2: and tidy things up. I think we'd locked the offender

900
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 2: up as well. And I remember sitting on the couch

901
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 2: with her son, David. He was probably three or four,

902
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 2: and he said something to me and I said this,

903
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 2: and I said, I don't know what he said. And

904
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 2: I said, oh, and I made it. I'm pretty tired.

905
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 2: And he said, you're not pretty come back from that.

906
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 2: And and even as your name, my nickname was Edouard.

907
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 2: And even the homicide guy from Victoria that worked Mere

908
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: in Sydney, we saw that award, he just what a

909
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 2: load of rubbish, you know, And he used to give

910
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 2: me and I used to enjoy seeing him afraid of

911
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 2: my award every now and then, you know. And when

912
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: they used to advertise nominees for that, I said, you're

913
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,240
Speaker 2: going to nominate for that? Anyway? I was talking about

914
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:34,800
Speaker 2: that news Wills Intel also we had there. She's a champion, Chris.

915
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 2: She she's now switched OVERFP but she's about five foot nothing, thin,

916
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 2: Greek heritage, very fiery, and we used to stir up

917
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 2: and we didn't have to try hard. And she used

918
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 2: to fire up and especially Josh and said, I was going,

919
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: why don't you go and see your champion and change?

920
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,399
Speaker 2: And she used to be my biggest defender, you know.

921
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 2: But it was about that relationship that you developed. And

922
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 2: you know, they used to take photos office in there,

923
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: and when I finished the three guys we got, I

924
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 2: got the same shirt from this manufacturer. We we got

925
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 2: the same shirt and we all photograph and they put

926
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: photos up in the wall and Eduarde champion a change.

927
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 2: And then well that's the other thing about that. And

928
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 2: I probably said that to you. I said, I had

929
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 2: to explain my whole life why I was called Eduarda

930
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 2: and that still happens now. So Eduard, I think I

931
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,439
Speaker 2: sent you the photo of it was a photo that fart.

932
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 2: I think it was about nineteen eighty eight, and you

933
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 2: can see I look you for all intents my grandfather

934
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 2: mum so I was Maltese, but I look like I'm

935
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 2: some Spanish tourists or something. Yeah, exactly in here. And

936
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,720
Speaker 2: I was a bit old, especially in the territorial as years. Anyway,

937
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 2: I think it was in Mackay. I'd come there and

938
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 2: cost me from the territory and I looked still looked

939
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 2: a bit like that. And there was a guy that

940
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 2: had a business up there, Edward Pool, the pool maintenance. Anyway,

941
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 2: there's the clues to call me the pool clean Anyway,

942
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 2: Someone's typing their running shots in and then they'd always

943
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 2: I'd put Edwards slash you know whoever, Smith or whatever,

944
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 2: and anyway they'd always get rid of the s and

945
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 2: put oath and the bosses comes out the freaking elles

946
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 2: Eduardo and just it went on and on went over

947
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 2: the years, and no one knew me in Brisbane, and

948
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: then everyone thought my name was actually Eduarda and I

949
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,760
Speaker 2: had that photo and that just stuck with me for years.

950
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 2: Well people didn't even know my real name.

951
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: Well well, well deserved with the massage look undercover Spanish

952
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 1: Spanish cop. I saw a photo of you too online

953
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: somewhere sitting on the Harley, but I'm not sure that.

954
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 2: Was Dar And that was right on the blancs. I

955
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 2: was in a group there, a tactical intel group where

956
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 2: we used to a lot of intel and target the

957
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 2: bikes up there at the time. That's what that was.

958
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: Yeah right, Okay, well you've you've had a had a

959
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: great career, would you would you recommend it for others?

960
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 2: I've had funny, I've had mixed feelings, and I change.

961
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 2: I probably change a bit on that. Sometimes when my

962
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: daughter's younger, if they said, oh, I joined the police,

963
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 2: or so I don't, please don't. Now I'm probably a

964
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 2: little bit different. I still think there, especially if they're intelligent,

965
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 2: because my daughter's a universe as you have a very

966
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 2: good position qualifications, I think there's better opportunity. I used

967
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 2: to see a lot of ones doing UNI that used

968
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 2: to use the police as a bit of a stepping

969
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 2: stone to maybe something else. Understand that, you know, years

970
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: ago we used to have a job and we just

971
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 2: have that job for forty years, and you know the

972
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 2: young ones. Now I think seven years as the long

973
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,959
Speaker 2: as someone spends in the same job. It's changed. Yeah,

974
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:58,760
Speaker 2: but now I think I think it's difficult, especially the focus.

975
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:03,760
Speaker 2: The DV stuff is really hard, and the job is harder.

976
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 2: Everyone's filming you at the moment you two and you're

977
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 2: using body warm camera. You've got to think. But having

978
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 2: said that. I think young people are more educated than

979
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 2: probably you and I were. I didn't even finish grade twelve,

980
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, went to tafe, did a

981
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 2: trade course. You know my focus. I wanted to be

982
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 2: a bricklayer. That was what I wanted. Yeah, it was

983
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 2: a great, a huge aspiration.

984
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: That would have been tough. Although now you'd probably be doing.

985
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 2: Bricking and my brother's are built tough gig and I

986
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 2: saw my brother Ago and he's his bodies He's two

987
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 2: years younger than me and his body is really suffering. Yeah,

988
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 2: so I don't know. At this day and age, I

989
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 2: think maybe it is a good option. And the money

990
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 2: is pretty good, so at least it's a starting and

991
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 2: there are avenues to go. I think it's look, not

992
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,320
Speaker 2: everyone's going to be want to be a street copper

993
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 2: and doing that for that and they don't cope with

994
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 2: shift work and all the rest of them. And if

995
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 2: I'm on a bit gay to frauds squad and that's good.

996
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 2: You see, you be a fraudsquad detective, sit in the

997
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 2: air conditioning seven point five hours of the day and

998
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 2: build a brief and that's what you're okay, But I

999
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 2: think there is avenues for people a bit more than

1000
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:25,399
Speaker 2: what you and I would have looked.

1001
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,479
Speaker 1: I'd like them to make it because you talked about yeah,

1002
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: we signed up and it was basically, Okay, this is

1003
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:32,359
Speaker 1: what I'm doing for the rest of my life, and

1004
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: you said the seven year mark is where people tend

1005
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,240
Speaker 1: to change careers. I reckon if we could make police

1006
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,439
Speaker 1: in a little bit more flexible, so you could love

1007
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: take a couple of years off and come back and

1008
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: do a refresher course if legislations change, or up skill

1009
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 1: and get your firearms practices in place. You should be

1010
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: able to take time and then come back and rejoin

1011
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 1: and not have to start at the bottom again. I

1012
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: think that would encourage people because it's almost like, Okay,

1013
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: if I'm going to sign up for this, I'm going

1014
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 1: to have someone telling me what to do for the

1015
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 1: rest of my life.

1016
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is there is a bit of flex There

1017
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 2: should be flexible. I agree, because I see some coppers

1018
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 2: that leave to go and do something else and then

1019
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 2: that's not that great and the money is like and actually,

1020
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 2: you know, I think I'm better off back at the cops.

1021
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 2: I think they shouldn't It shouldn't be hard to do

1022
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 2: that it shouldn't be hard. It shouldn't be made hard.

1023
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 2: And that's a way of getting numbers back and keeping

1024
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 2: that maintaining that, you know, trying to stop that attrition

1025
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 2: rate set of just know you're gone now and you've

1026
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 2: got to apply and crawl over hot coals to try

1027
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 2: and come back. It shouldn't be like that. Shouldn't Yeah,

1028
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 2: it should be you know, when you have an exit interview,

1029
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 2: we're sorry to see you go. You'll have a job

1030
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,359
Speaker 2: here if you come back, you'll have a job here. Mate.

1031
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 2: What will do We can just put you through a

1032
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 2: week of FoST firearm and tactical training get your back,

1033
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 2: but we'll go through some education. We'll have something set

1034
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 2: up on a course at the academy. We have these

1035
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,760
Speaker 2: rolling all the time. You know, it's not that hard.

1036
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: And you don't forget, like if you've done something for

1037
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 1: a long time, you don't forget, and you could come

1038
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: back into it. Yeah, I think that could be the

1039
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: future of policing because everyone's struggling to attract police and

1040
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 1: maybe we just need that flexibility. But look, we might

1041
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 1: wrap it up here, Darren. I just want to say

1042
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 1: I enjoyed when we got to work together, had great times,

1043
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: and I totally respect the type of cop that you

1044
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: are and also thank you on behalf of the communities

1045
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: that you've served and the work that you've done, and

1046
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 1: you've done it with a lot of dignity to.

1047
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I appreciate it. And as I said, I

1048
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 2: wasn't pissing your pocket. It's good to have stayed in

1049
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 2: contact with you and have that friendly basis and that

1050
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 2: it's really encouraging. And so many people talk about the

1051
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 2: podcast work that you've done, and everyone can relate to it,

1052
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 2: but it gives an opportunity to people. That gives opportunity

1053
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 2: for other people to listen and hear it in a

1054
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 2: relaxed format and we're not governed by I can't talk

1055
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: about that, I can't talk about this. I think that's

1056
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 2: really good and I think it does Yeah, you know yourself,

1057
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 2: it does have help to talk about those things. So

1058
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 2: I think there it has been a good opportunity for

1059
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 2: me to come and see you and talk about it

1060
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 2: because I don't get an often, but I'm sure my

1061
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 2: partner gets sick of me telling a war stories. I

1062
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 2: remember this, you think in Darwen in nineteen ninety one

1063
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 2: and he's looking at me, and I don't think. I

1064
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 2: don't worry about it.

1065
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, we probably should put a shout out to the

1066
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: partners of police.

1067
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 2: That, you know what, I had copies of my diaries,

1068
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 2: you know, in the back of our diary in the

1069
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 2: territory used to write when we arrested someone, were involved

1070
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 2: in the rest of someone, and we'd have the date

1071
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 2: of John Smith receiving burglary whatever. And I had a

1072
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 2: heap of from there manslaughter, man's all. And I can

1073
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 2: remember nearly virtually remember every person. When I looked at

1074
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 2: the name, I remember him.

1075
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:52,879
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1076
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 2: Well I found Bret Cown's name there, and it was

1077
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 2: the date in whatever it was in ninety three, and

1078
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,360
Speaker 2: I have the page. I just put a sault in

1079
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 2: Matthew because I think it was Matthew is the name

1080
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 2: of the young boy that was right, okay, And I'm thinking, wow,

1081
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 2: there it is there. And there was another matter I

1082
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 2: was trying to think of, grimly, this guy is a

1083
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 2: sexual asault young girl. Anyway, I found it is here,

1084
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 2: you know, but I still had them. It was funny,

1085
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 2: you know. I was showing some of my partner and

1086
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 2: I could just see she was glazing over, so I

1087
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 2: don't really get an opportunity to talk to people much.

1088
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: They won't listen. That's exciting. They haven't told you the

1089
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: end yea further than a thousand times. I've been there

1090
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: and done that. Well, thanks all the best of your retirement.

1091
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're enjoying yourself. Last time I spoke to

1092
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 1: you were out on your your surf ski battling on

1093
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 1: the on the river. So yeah, good good luck.

1094
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 2: Thanks for the invitation and thanks for the opportunity and

1095
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 2: your staff member as well.

1096
00:57:54,840 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: Love the Fund. Nine