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Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge that traditional custodians of the land

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Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced the Gadigle people of

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Speaker 1: the Orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present.

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Speaker 1: This episode contains discussions of mental ill health and suicide.

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Speaker 1: If this raises any issues for you, support is available

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Speaker 1: through the links and phone numbers in the show notes.

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Speaker 2: It's nineteen ninety six and we're in Coff's Harbor with

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Speaker 2: Detective Alan Sparks. He's on duty with his colleague Gavin

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Speaker 2: when they get a call. A young boy has been

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Speaker 2: washed into a storm water drain after days of torrential downpour.

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Speaker 2: There's more rain on the way. They have to act quickly.

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Speaker 2: Alan jumps in and follows the child's screams through the

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Speaker 2: maze of the drain system. After almost drowning himself, news

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Speaker 2: comes through that the boy has been heard some six

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Speaker 2: hundred meters away. A grueling hour later, Alan finds the boy,

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Speaker 2: pulls him into his arms and tries to calm him down.

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Speaker 2: When they come out of the drain, news cameras are

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Speaker 2: there to capture the moment. Shortly after the dramatic rescue,

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Speaker 2: he's in the fetal position in the shower. Alan is

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Speaker 2: a hero, but he doesn't feel like one. I'm Att

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Speaker 2: Middleton and this is head Game today, the real cost

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Speaker 2: of working on the front line, and how hope saved

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Speaker 2: Alan Sparks. Alan Sparks, Welcome to Headgame. Now you're a

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Speaker 2: former detective and you're in a police force for the

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Speaker 2: majority of your career. Why did you want to join

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Speaker 2: the police force?

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Speaker 3: I originally wanted to be a geologist. My dad took

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Speaker 3: me up to a little place called Glengarry near Lightning

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Speaker 3: Ridge many years ago before I finished school, and we

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Speaker 3: were open mining and I really loved gems and Ople's

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Speaker 3: and Lord. But then I couldn't affordy eighty university, so

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Speaker 3: it was what else can I do? And a friend

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Speaker 3: of my dad's was a policeman and he spoke to

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Speaker 3: me about joining the police force. And at that stage

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Speaker 3: I was a sharer. I was still only very young

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Speaker 3: and only finished high school and I was jack ewing

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Speaker 3: and working in the land and became a sharer, and

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Speaker 3: I was tol you know, do I join the cops?

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Speaker 3: Do I stay sharing? Because I was playing rugby and

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Speaker 3: loving my rugby and loving working as a sharer, and

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Speaker 3: they said, well, why don't you go and try it out.

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Speaker 3: You don't like it, come back playing foot and keep sharing.

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Speaker 3: So I said, okay. So I joined up two weeks

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Speaker 3: after I turned nineteen and so young. Yeah, yeah, And

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Speaker 3: I come from a little village out in the central

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Speaker 3: west of New South Wales Aunt so I sent two

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Speaker 3: hundred and fifty people in the village so to come

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Speaker 3: into Sydney and to go to training at Redfern and

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Speaker 3: then my first station was Darlinghurst in King's Cross. So

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Speaker 3: that was as I haven't for me as a young kid,

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Speaker 3: and I absolutely loved it. It was just full of

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Speaker 3: excitement and new experiences. Every day it was new experiences

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Speaker 3: and certainly there were things I was never exposed to

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Speaker 3: previously that obviously goes with first response work. And I

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Speaker 3: went in and I was a young cop on the

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Speaker 3: beat at King's Cross at nineteen back in the days

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Speaker 3: when there's only two of us on the beat, so

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Speaker 3: night shifts afternoon shifts were challenging at times physically. I

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Speaker 3: really liked the idea of becoming detective and I started

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Speaker 3: my playing clothes career at Darlinghurst and there were some

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Speaker 3: absolutely brilliant detectives who worked in that area, who were

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Speaker 3: great mentors, great educators, great advisors and good friends. And

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Speaker 3: I loved working there. And then some years later another

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Speaker 3: detective came there who was quite notorist in Australia, and

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Speaker 3: one night here and I didn't see eye to I,

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Speaker 3: so he shafted me and I did a side went

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Speaker 3: to the Detective's course where I became a lecturer in

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Speaker 3: the Detective's course where I met my now wife. But

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Speaker 3: also there was another member of that class who featured

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Speaker 3: significantly in my life later on, Pete Addison. Pete was

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Speaker 3: murdered at Crescent Head some years later, and Pete was

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Speaker 3: an absolutely wonderful man. And so after the Detection's Course,

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Speaker 3: I barred out for a while and then went back

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Speaker 3: to the cops and then went to South Region Breaking Squad,

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Speaker 3: which was an area where we specialized in targeting organized

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Speaker 3: crime pretty much sort of the heavies of Sydney crime,

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Speaker 3: heavies of Australian crime, the gangsters, and that was an

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Speaker 3: amazing squad to work in. I really loved that, and

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Speaker 3: then I wanted to get into some real estate and

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Speaker 3: deb and I'd start a relationship by this stage and Sydney.

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Speaker 3: I just couldn't afford it, so there's a vacacy came

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Speaker 3: up with Coffs Harbor. So I spoke to Dev and said, look,

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Speaker 3: I'd like to go up there, maybe get start in

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Speaker 3: real estate, maybe come back. So Deb she was then

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Speaker 3: working at the surveillance unit, which is like an undercover unit,

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Speaker 3: and she also transferred up about it a year after

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Speaker 3: I started there, and yes, stayed there until I unfortunately

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Speaker 3: become a very unwell and lost my career and the

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Speaker 3: rest is history. As they say, you get.

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Speaker 2: A call back in nineteen ninety six, take me back

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Speaker 2: to that call where you've got a call out for

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Speaker 2: a young boy that got washed into a storm water drain.

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Speaker 3: I remember that day so clearly. And I was working

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Speaker 3: with a guy called Gavin Dengate and Gave was my

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Speaker 3: workmatee at COFs Harbor, and we were investigating the theft

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Speaker 3: of some jury from a lady who was in a

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Speaker 3: nursing home. That's all she had left from her marriage.

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Speaker 3: My husband passed and her jurry had been stolen. So

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Speaker 3: we had executed a search warrant and we recovered the

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Speaker 3: jury and we arrested the person who stole it. And

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Speaker 3: I remember that morning we went the nursing home and

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Speaker 3: afterward photographed and log the jewelry. We gave it back

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Speaker 3: to this old lady and she was just in tears.

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Speaker 3: She never expected to see it again. And that is

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Speaker 3: a cop you know sometimes where you go, I've actually

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Speaker 3: done some really good today, and Gavin, I it wasn't

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Speaker 3: a major crime, but it meant the world of this woman,

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Speaker 3: and what we were able to achieve meant the world

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Speaker 3: for it. And I'm quite sure that she would have

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Speaker 3: been at peace for the rest of her life because

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Speaker 3: she got a jury.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing that you remember that crime like that, but

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Speaker 2: the effect that it has on someone and the result

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Speaker 2: that you give them.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So and that's part of our job is to

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Speaker 3: make a difference in people's lives. So then we went

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Speaker 3: back to the station. We're just having a cup of tea,

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Speaker 3: and I remember we were standing in the mill room

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Speaker 3: near the sink, and when the police issue are like

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Speaker 3: an urgent job, you get two distinct beeps over the radio,

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Speaker 3: and then it said any car in the vicinity of

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Speaker 3: whatever street it was. We swept into a storm water

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Speaker 3: pipe and normally that's a job that uniform would attend,

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Speaker 3: not detectives. It's not a storm or a drain, which

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Speaker 3: is a large thing you can actually walk into. This

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Speaker 3: is a narrow pipe. So I remember Gave and I

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Speaker 3: we just looked at each other and just threw our

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Speaker 3: cups in the sink, raced downstairs, jumped in the car,

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Speaker 3: took off up to this street and we got there

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Speaker 3: and we'd had five days of absolutely torrential rainfall at

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Speaker 3: Cops Harbor, so everything was flooded. And we got to

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Speaker 3: the scene. There were two little boys. They were saturated,

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Speaker 3: and there was a workman there, an adult male, and

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Speaker 3: we said to the kids, what's happened. They said, oh, gians,

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Speaker 3: giants disappeared. I said, where's he disappeared? Mate, and they

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Speaker 3: pointed to this whirlpool and I've gone, oh shit.

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Speaker 2: Were they playing in the whirlpool?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they've been playing on their boogie boards in the

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Speaker 3: flooded creek. And the whole thing was flooded and this

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Speaker 3: whirlpool was massive, was just swirling around and I thought, great,

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Speaker 3: what are we going to do? And the workman said, look,

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Speaker 3: you can actually get access to look down the drain

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Speaker 3: across the road. So we ran across the road and.

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Speaker 2: It's just two of you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So we lifted up the concrete covers. We took

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Speaker 3: our guns and handcuffs off. Three those in the car

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Speaker 3: jumped into the into the drain, and we looked down.

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Speaker 3: We could see what we thought was a little boy's

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Speaker 3: body down the pipe. And I think the workman he

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Speaker 3: gave us a rope, gave wanted to go down, and

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Speaker 3: I said to gave look, I'll go down. I'll grab him.

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Speaker 3: I'll give you three tugets and I've got him. Pulled

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Speaker 3: me back. So I started to go down and I

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Speaker 3: realized this rope is going to snap and then I'm

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Speaker 3: down there. So I tugged on the rope gave pulled

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Speaker 3: me back up to the surface. And I'd only gone

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Speaker 3: down a few meters and by that stage the State

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Speaker 3: Emergency Service were there, other cops are there, and I

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Speaker 3: say this a lot of I thank god the professionals here,

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Speaker 3: they'll take over. And they just gave me a bigger

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Speaker 3: rope and put me back.

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Speaker 2: So then I went anyway, continue, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then I still remember like I'm not a small man.

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Speaker 3: I think at that stage I was probably punching one

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Speaker 3: hundred plus kilos. I'm six' two and this water literally

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Speaker 3: just carried me down like a. LEAF i. WAS i

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Speaker 3: was weightless the power of this.

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Speaker 2: Water SO i fat done that to. You were you, thinking, wow,

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Speaker 2: Yeah i've sped done to this little.

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Speaker 3: Boy. Yeah and our reasoning was if we get him,

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Speaker 3: out if he's, dead well we have a chance of reviving.

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Speaker 3: Him if he's, alive we've got to get him out

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Speaker 3: before it rains again and he gets washed.

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Speaker 2: Away and what was going through your.

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Speaker 3: Mind i'm a very positive. PERSON i, Thought, no he's.

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Speaker 3: Alive we'll get him out and we'll get, him get,

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Speaker 3: him get him back. Home it'll be. Right so the

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Speaker 3: focus was get to. Him AND i had a torch with,

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Speaker 3: me like a, MAGLIGHT i, think and there's been. ESTIMATE

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Speaker 3: i went down eighty meters down the, pipe and by

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Speaker 3: the time we got to where we thought it was,

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Speaker 3: him the light showed up was just like it was

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Speaker 3: a branch that was giving these weird.

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Speaker 2: Shadows so what you thought was the boy was then.

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Speaker 3: Eight, yeah this is not. Good So i've tugged three

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Speaker 3: times on the. Rope thank, God gavin was in the.

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Speaker 3: Drain he could see what was going. On so as

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Speaker 3: soon AS i tugged them the, rope they stopped the free.

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Speaker 3: Flow So i've stopped and my, Bulk i've actually damned myself.

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Speaker 3: In so SUDDENLY i Am i'm engulfed in, water and

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Speaker 3: this water is so. Powerful and my first thought, WAS

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Speaker 3: i hope the guy that tied a bowline tied a

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Speaker 3: good bowline around my, waist because ALL i had was

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Speaker 3: just a rope on my. Arms so then they started

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Speaker 3: to pull me back And i'm not in a good position.

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Speaker 3: HERE i, Thought i'm going to die, Here i'm going to.

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Speaker 2: Drown and so you've got this this this backwash just engulfing.

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Speaker 3: You, Yeah i'm pretty much submerged under the, water being

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Speaker 3: pulled backwards by all the all the ses guys that

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Speaker 3: cops up on the surface point.

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Speaker 2: No proper, equipment just a rope around your.

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Speaker 3: Boy, yeah SO i remember sort of Sometimes i'd create

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Speaker 3: a bit of an, arch make an air, pocket grab

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Speaker 3: a quick, breath get under the, water and go back

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Speaker 3: under the water. Again and then we got. Back i've

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Speaker 3: got back to the, surface, Thankfully and then we were

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Speaker 3: just standing, around going we have to find ways into this.

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Speaker 3: Drain we've got to try and reap frog down the

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Speaker 3: drain to try and find, him and then a call

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Speaker 3: came over the radio to say they can hear a

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Speaker 3: child screaming down The Pacific. Highway, Mentally i'll, gone that's

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Speaker 3: a long way. Away that's a seriously long way. Away

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Speaker 3: and it turns out from where we were it was

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Speaker 3: about as the craveflies five hundred.

217
00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,160
Speaker 2: Meters it's like a maze down.

218
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,720
Speaker 3: There, Right, yeah there's this. PIPE i, MEAN i know

219
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,040
Speaker 3: it went to a certain. Direction but when we got

220
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,320
Speaker 3: down to the, highway The Pacific highways all blocked. Off

221
00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,960
Speaker 3: there's people, everywhere and we jumped out of the car

222
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,840
Speaker 3: and got to hear the screams of a.

223
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,240
Speaker 2: Child what's going through your head when you're hearing the?

224
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,120
Speaker 3: Screams, confusion absolute. Confusion LIKE i thought the kid was.

225
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,760
Speaker 3: DEAD i thought we were looking for a body. Recovery,

226
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:02,080
Speaker 3: yeah there's no way this can be. ALIVE i thought

227
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,720
Speaker 3: he's trapped against a great. Somewhere he is. Dead but

228
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,520
Speaker 3: then to hear the, Screams, no he's actually. Live so

229
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,520
Speaker 3: my brain's going dead alive and he's. Alive But michael

230
00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,040
Speaker 3: mar the. Paramedic michael was laying on his tummy with

231
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,360
Speaker 3: his head down into this manhole and we ran over

232
00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:20,680
Speaker 3: and the water was bubbling up on the. Manhole but

233
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,160
Speaker 3: the screams are coming up through the, water And i'm

234
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,280
Speaker 3: even more confused by this. Stage SO i. CALLED i,

235
00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,880
Speaker 3: SAID i want a scuba. TANK i want to regulator

236
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,679
Speaker 3: BECAUSE i had done some scuba. DIVING i, said there

237
00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,040
Speaker 3: are the two THINGS i. Want and somebody produced a

238
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,480
Speaker 3: ladder and plunked it down the manhole and there's ACTUAL

239
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,920
Speaker 3: tv footage Of gavin trying to squeeze his way down

240
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:42,920
Speaker 3: the camera.

241
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:47,360
Speaker 2: Cruiser yeahound up the emergency. Services you've got everyone that's

242
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,240
Speaker 2: now over watching.

243
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,640
Speaker 3: This and at some STAGE i don't know, when BUT

244
00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,400
Speaker 3: i took my suit pants off And i'm there And box, assured,

245
00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:02,800
Speaker 3: yeah my. Ppees, anyway So gav's we're all. There but

246
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,920
Speaker 3: there's these screams and these these are terrifying. SCREAMS a

247
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,600
Speaker 3: child screaming for their. Life it was. Terrifying so they

248
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,520
Speaker 3: put another rope around me and, no don't want. That

249
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,480
Speaker 3: gav went down straight down the. Ladder he disappeared under the.

250
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,679
Speaker 3: WATER i followed him down and the water is not,

251
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,520
Speaker 3: clear so obviously it's. Floodwater it's, filthy it's, Muddy gav.

252
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,280
Speaker 3: DISAPPEARED i went down And i'm under the water trying

253
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,480
Speaker 3: to film my way, around and we both came up

254
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,120
Speaker 3: in the junction of six of these pipes which were

255
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:34,520
Speaker 3: pouring in on top of wet had torch.

256
00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:35,720
Speaker 2: On is it pitch black down?

257
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,000
Speaker 3: There, no it's pitch. Black we haven't got a, Torch

258
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:43,320
Speaker 3: we've got. Nothing and we we weren't. Communicating we just

259
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,200
Speaker 3: just knew what we thought we had to, do and

260
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,319
Speaker 3: that was to search to try and find which pipe is?

261
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,800
Speaker 2: Up followed the, Voice, yeah, Yeah.

262
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:52,959
Speaker 3: And we searched a couple of pipes each and then

263
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,920
Speaker 3: WHEN i went, UP i thought it's this. One i've

264
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,640
Speaker 3: got to take a. PUNT i think it's this, one

265
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,559
Speaker 3: because we were conscious if it rains, again we're all.

266
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,199
Speaker 3: Dead because downpour we're. Dead we're not going to get

267
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,760
Speaker 3: out and you're. Done SO i said To, gab, LOOK

268
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,360
Speaker 3: i think it's this. One can you try and find

269
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,880
Speaker 3: it a way into this? Pipe SO i regret that

270
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:20,880
Speaker 3: decision in, hindsight but why do you. Go gav should

271
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,760
Speaker 3: have been there with me to rejoice in the success

272
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:28,320
Speaker 3: we eventually. Had gav deserved to be there for that

273
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,280
Speaker 3: moment in. Life And i've always regretted THAT i Asked

274
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,040
Speaker 3: gav to leave the drain. System and why did you

275
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:35,320
Speaker 3: make that?

276
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,680
Speaker 2: Decision what was going for your? Head was it his

277
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:38,520
Speaker 2: safety or?

278
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,960
Speaker 3: No to try and get to this kid as quickly

279
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,600
Speaker 3: as we. Could IF i couldn't get to, him maybe

280
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,840
Speaker 3: up some other. Way unbeknownst to, us the council was

281
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:48,880
Speaker 3: bringing down a back. Hoe they were going to dig

282
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,440
Speaker 3: up the highway to try and find this. Kid that's

283
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 3: how desperate it. Was and So gave went, up and

284
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,440
Speaker 3: Then Michael, marlin, paramedic came down and he gave me

285
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,720
Speaker 3: a turt AND i think he INSISTED i put a

286
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,560
Speaker 3: rope around my. Tummy but this Time i'm on my

287
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,880
Speaker 3: fingernails and, toenails crawling up this pipe to try and

288
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,160
Speaker 3: get to WHERE i think the kid. Is and again

289
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,360
Speaker 3: these screams are just doing my head And i'm crawling,

290
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:22,120
Speaker 3: up literally crawling in amongst the concrete and the crap

291
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,640
Speaker 3: that's in a concrete, pipe and it's it's shoulder with the.

292
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,000
Speaker 3: PART i was watching your show the other, night but

293
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,080
Speaker 3: they did the exercise being in the water. Pipe, Wow,

294
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:36,760
Speaker 3: OKAY i know that's like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, anyway So

295
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,840
Speaker 3: i'm crawling up the. Pipe Michael maer is behind, me

296
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,720
Speaker 3: screaming at. Me if you got him, Out i've got.

297
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,320
Speaker 3: Him have you got? Him how long have you been down?

298
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,240
Speaker 2: There, ah you're, cold your, Well.

299
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,320
Speaker 3: I'm, freezing, Miserable we're, freezing and All i'm gonna hear

300
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,080
Speaker 3: is this kid, Screaming michael. Screaming So i'm screaming At, michael,

301
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,760
Speaker 3: like shut their. Up i'm trying to call the. Kid it's, okay,

302
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,680
Speaker 3: Mate i'm, Coming i'm, Coming i'm. Coming could he hear your?

303
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:00,280
Speaker 2: Voice was he?

304
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,640
Speaker 3: Responding, no he was just he'd lost. It he was,

305
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,920
Speaker 3: hysterical he, was no, doubt. Hypothermic he'd been in there

306
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,320
Speaker 3: for forty five, minutes hanging on for dear, life because

307
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,160
Speaker 3: he's just hanging on to a log that's stammed across the.

308
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,640
Speaker 3: Pipe if that log wasn't, there he was dead because

309
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,360
Speaker 3: he would have got washed down to a great there

310
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,240
Speaker 3: was no way he would have. Survived so he's been

311
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,640
Speaker 3: hanging on there in the pitch dark with his water

312
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,360
Speaker 3: just powering onto his, body screaming and screaming for his,

313
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,560
Speaker 3: life and, suddenly no doubt he can see. Torchlight BUT

314
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,840
Speaker 3: i don't know whether he understands what it. Is AND

315
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 3: i really. WASN'T i wasn't thinking about does he? Know

316
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:39,680
Speaker 3: does he? Know i'm just trying to get to. Him

317
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,320
Speaker 3: i'm absolutely, desperate AND i started to, pray, like, Please,

318
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,480
Speaker 3: god let me get to, Him please don't let him

319
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,760
Speaker 3: get washed. Away AND i kept crawling and, crawling, crawling

320
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:53,040
Speaker 3: AND i can picture it to this absolute moment in.

321
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,760
Speaker 3: Time my torchlight finally picked up his. Face that's ALL

322
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,560
Speaker 3: i can see was just his face and the illumination

323
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:01,960
Speaker 3: of the tour hitting his. Face it was LIKE i

324
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 3: saw a ghost and it is so vivid in my.

325
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,280
Speaker 3: Memory AND i coaxed him to come towards me BECAUSE i,

326
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:10,639
Speaker 3: Thought i'm not going to get to.

327
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,720
Speaker 2: Him how far were you away from him when you?

328
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,480
Speaker 3: Swim oh and probably ten meters AND i was about

329
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,359
Speaker 3: thirty meters up the, yeah at the.

330
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:19,680
Speaker 2: Water.

331
00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,639
Speaker 3: Yeah So i'd crawl thirty meters on my guts to

332
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,240
Speaker 3: get to. Him and then he. Did he got washed

333
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,160
Speaker 3: down to me And i've got hold of, him AND

334
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,160
Speaker 3: i was, like Oh, God i've got. Him and out

335
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 3: of the, BLUE i just, said say thank You. God

336
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,600
Speaker 3: And i'm not a religious, person And i'm a very spiritual,

337
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,119
Speaker 3: person BUT i, said you say thank You, god and

338
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:41,880
Speaker 3: this little boy he just, said, oh thank You. God

339
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,880
Speaker 3: he started to bail his eyes, out AND i. DID

340
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:44,880
Speaker 3: i started to bore my eyes.

341
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,639
Speaker 2: Out so you have this moment where you've got him

342
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,280
Speaker 2: in your, arms he's gripping youws he is he calming

343
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:50,040
Speaker 2: down or is he just?

344
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:56,160
Speaker 3: Still he had basically just collapsed with, exhaustion with, emotion

345
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,719
Speaker 3: with a sense of HIS i feel so now this

346
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,679
Speaker 3: man's got. ME i feel. Safe and THEN i somehow

347
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,560
Speaker 3: pushed him under me and then he got washed down

348
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,239
Speaker 3: To Michael, marr the. Paramedic michael's got, him assessed. Him

349
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 3: Then michael swam him under the, water got to where

350
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,399
Speaker 3: the manhole. Was michael climbed up the ladder then and

351
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,520
Speaker 3: THE tv foot cameras rolling and they reached down and

352
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,400
Speaker 3: they pulled this little kid out out of the drain

353
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,159
Speaker 3: and he just comes up like a drowned. Rat and

354
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,600
Speaker 3: they put him on the ambulance skur and he wrapped

355
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,800
Speaker 3: him up an emergency. Blanket his mom's, There she's been

356
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,480
Speaker 3: there through the whole. Thing she was hearing her child

357
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,439
Speaker 3: screaming for their. Life they wrap him up in the.

358
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,959
Speaker 3: Blanket Her mum's just hugging him and hugging. Him AND

359
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,199
Speaker 3: i get out of the. PIPE i go to the

360
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,240
Speaker 3: car And i'm sitting in the passenger seat of this,

361
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 3: car AND i was. COLD i remember being really.

362
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,879
Speaker 2: Cold how only have you been down there? For AND

363
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,040
Speaker 2: i don't know how long had he been down there?

364
00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,400
Speaker 3: For at least forty five, minutes at least for five.

365
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:05,680
Speaker 3: Minutes and halfway down the pipe he saw some light

366
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,200
Speaker 3: and he reached up and he grabbed hold of a

367
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 3: grate in the side of the. Road because his vision,

368
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,120
Speaker 3: impaired his glasses went flying as soon as he got

369
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,760
Speaker 3: sucked off the. Boogeyboard, evidently he tells me that he

370
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,879
Speaker 3: could see shapes and he just started to scream and

371
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,239
Speaker 3: screen for, help and then the water just washed him

372
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 3: away another three hundred, meters so it's been washed six

373
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,600
Speaker 3: hundred meters down the. Pipe. Wow and Then i'm in

374
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,800
Speaker 3: the car and Just i'm, Like i'm in. SHOCK i

375
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,359
Speaker 3: remember going back to the police. Station. Dad my, wife

376
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,679
Speaker 3: she was a cop. There she's in her. Office she

377
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 3: isn't doing she's in a chop protection. Unit so she's

378
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 3: in the in her office and they had for some,

379
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 3: REASON i had the radio turned, down so she didn't

380
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,640
Speaker 3: know anything was going. On and she saw the car

381
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 3: pull up and she looked. Out she Saw gavin get

382
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 3: out in his pants and shirt, saturated holding his gun on.

383
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 3: Handcuffs she's, going, oh it's. Strange then she saw me

384
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 3: get out in my box of shorts holding my. Handcuffs

385
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 3: what the hell is going had a lot of blood

386
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 3: in my back and other. Stuff i've just, gone, yeah

387
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 3: from a look like cutting myself on the concrete pipe

388
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 3: because it was so narrow and trying to get it

389
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,640
Speaker 3: squeezed myself. Around SO i went into the crime, scene

390
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 3: And i've just jumped straight in the shower just to

391
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 3: wash all. THIS i felt, filthy and deb found. ME

392
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,399
Speaker 3: i just just curled up on the ball in the

393
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 3: bottom of the, shower, assessed just sobbing my.

394
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 2: Heart straight after the. Incident yeah it's affected you straight.

395
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 3: Away, Yeah i've had a serious a serious how do you?

396
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 3: Say looking at it, SCIENTIFICALLY i THINK i went from

397
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 3: being a sympathetic nervous state into a massive power. Sympathetic i'm,

398
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 3: Safe i'm, Warm i'm, okay and like my body has

399
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:54,240
Speaker 3: just shut.

400
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 2: Down what you're thinking when you're in that state.

401
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 3: At this, STAGE i don't remember thinking. ANYTHING i Remember

402
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 3: deb consoling, me but she didn't know what in the

403
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 3: hell had. Happened she had no idea what. Happened she's

404
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 3: just there hugging. Me and THEN i got myself, together went,

405
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 3: home had a proper, shower got, changed went back to,

406
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 3: work and then the reporters are up there Asking gavin

407
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 3: AND i questions and interviewing. Us and then we went

408
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:21,640
Speaker 3: had lunch.

409
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 2: And this is all over the. News, yeah it's.

410
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 3: Everywhere yeah it's national.

411
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 2: News i've got to step out the. Door you're being.

412
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 2: Harassed you keep.

413
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,159
Speaker 3: No there was more of the because they were all

414
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 3: all local reporters who we. Knew it was just. Coffs

415
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,640
Speaker 3: hard was not a big, place and they just wanted

416
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 3: to come up and talk to me and all that

417
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 3: sort of. Stuff and then we went out for, lunch

418
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 3: and THEN i worked that afternoon and then we went

419
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 3: to the pub and absolutely smashed that. Night then the

420
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 3: next DAY i had to go down to the Police

421
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,719
Speaker 3: academy to start the Homicide investigator's, course AND i remember

422
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 3: for that first for that WEEK i was, AWAY i didn't.

423
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 3: Sleep every TIME i closed my, EYES i, screamed kid and.

424
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 2: The kid's face, right, yeah about the torch and seeing his. Face,

425
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 2: yeah do you still see his?

426
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 3: FACE i, Do, Yeah but that's a good. Thing, Yeah

427
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 3: i'm really good with. That but by this, stage And

428
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 3: i'd already i'd already started to develop post trauma like

429
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 3: symptoms from the incident At Crescent head where my colleagues were.

430
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 3: Murdered that was the most was that that was In

431
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 3: july ninety five and the rescue Was may ninety. Six

432
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 3: SO i had already started to develop post trauma like

433
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 3: symptoms AND i was chronically stressed by the time the

434
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 3: rescue happened AND i realized now was the nail in

435
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 3: the coffin pretty much. Mate, Yeah and after that things

436
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 3: all turned. SOUTH i did develop full MOON ptsd and

437
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 3: depression and suicidal. Ideation and on the sixth Of october ninety,

438
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 3: six that was the DAY i decided in my life

439
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 3: AND i went to. Work i'd kissed dead, goodbye kissed

440
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 3: my little lord, goodbye and went to work and went

441
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 3: towards a basroom to end my. Life and a colleague

442
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 3: walked in And i've done a mental. CALCULATION i THINK

443
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 3: i was eight seconds away from ending my life before

444
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 3: the guy walked.

445
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 2: In and this is all from the knock on effects

446
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 2: of your, job, right.

447
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 3: Well it. Is but WHAT i, realized And i've done

448
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 3: a lot of work in the mental health sector for many.

449
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 3: Years i've been A deputy commission The Mental Health. COMMISSION

450
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 3: i currently work with a. Psychologist we run a great training,

451
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 3: program AND i work with the cops on training program

452
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 3: for the. Cops it's understanding that when you become burned

453
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 3: out or chronically, stressed as you know from the, military

454
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 3: you then become vulnerable to significantly traumatic events or potentially traumatic.

455
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 3: Events it's when you're burned out that you are the

456
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 3: most vulnerable and if something does, happen by then you

457
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 3: really you haven't got anything left to be resilient. With you're,

458
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 3: cooked and these significantly traumatic events they can smash, you

459
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 3: and they. Did they smashed.

460
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: Me but when did you? Realize when did you realize

461
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: that you had a serious? Problem was it that day

462
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: that you wanted to take your? Life or was there

463
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 2: a moment where you for which is IF i need,

464
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 2: HELP i need to and your help was to end your.

465
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 2: Life and going back to that, moment you say someone

466
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 2: walked in on. You how did they stop? You how

467
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: close you say you? Were eight seconds? Away THERE'S.

468
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 3: I was going to the door into our. Office across the,

469
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 3: corridor which is a meter and a half across the

470
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 3: corridor is a door to the. BATHROOM i was at

471
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 3: the door to the office when a colleague walked in

472
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 3: like almost, me looked at me ON u, okay AND

473
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 3: i said, No i'm. NOT i use an, EXPLETIVE i, said,

474
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 3: No i'm. NOT i realized THAT i was mentally. Unwell

475
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 3: but because back then and still to this, day the

476
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,959
Speaker 3: stigma of declaring you mentally, UNWELL i knew IF i had,

477
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 3: declared my career would be. Over AND i was terrified

478
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 3: of losing my. Career like with respect to you and

479
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 3: YOUR collexamt the, military it's your, life it's your sense

480
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 3: of purpose you're Worth.

481
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 2: Yeah it's your. Identity purpose is who you.

482
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 3: Are so to lose that is. Terrifying which compounds the

483
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 3: mental ill health you're. Experiencing you develop a fear which

484
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 3: there's a term for, it YOUR hpa. Axis it's the

485
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 3: way your body controls your. Stress SO i realized that

486
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 3: MY hpa axis had been completely become, dysfunctional AND i

487
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: was so slip. DEPRIVED i was using alcohol as the

488
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: forms of. MEDICATION i was eating terrible, FOOD i was

489
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 3: smoking like a. CHIMNEY i was doing everything, wrong but

490
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 3: not knowing that the THINGS i was doing wrong we're

491
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 3: having such a knock on. Effect So i'm trying to mask.

492
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: Everything, yeah numb the, Pain numb everything that's going on

493
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 2: inside of. You and this is ninety ninety.

494
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 3: Six ninety, six, yeah, Yeah.

495
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 2: Like you said back then though that it was, like you,

496
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 2: know shut up and put, up and, yeah you man

497
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: up and get grippy yourself and crack.

498
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: On AND i realized now that that prior to, that

499
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 3: policemen did take their own, lives AND i think part

500
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 3: of the reason for that was the stigma of being mentally,

501
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 3: unwell losing your, career everything that goes with losing, it

502
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 3: it just becomes, unbearable and you, do you do develop

503
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 3: a physical pain that is indescribable and, unbearable and the

504
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 3: pain overwhelms every part of your.

505
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 2: Life and you're still functioning normal even though so after

506
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: that moment when you want to see your, life you

507
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 2: just cracked on as.

508
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 3: Normal, no that was.

509
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: Did they give you time? Off did?

510
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 3: They that was the last DAY i worked as an

511
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 3: operational police. OFFICER i then was on sick. Leave that,

512
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 3: NIGHT i was taken to the hospital before a crisis

513
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 3: counselor because of these Nightmares i've been. Having i've been

514
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 3: having horrible, nightmares not about hurting, me but hurting other

515
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 3: people very close to. Me and WHEN i disclosed this

516
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,479
Speaker 3: to the, Counselor she's, gone oh my, goodness we're going

517
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 3: to have to schedule ol what type of nightmares hurting family?

518
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 3: Members so that's WHEN i, THOUGHT i can't risk my.

519
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: FAMILY i need to protect.

520
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: THEM i, mean you're, scared you were going to action.

521
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 2: THAT i was.

522
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 3: SCARED i was. TERRIFIED i was absolutely terrified that something

523
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: was going to snap in me AND i wasn't prepared for.

524
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: That.

525
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 3: AUNT i couldn't risk my. FAMILY i don't THINK i would.

526
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 3: EVER i KNOW i would never have done, anything BUT

527
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 3: i wasn't prepared to risk. It so that's when that's

528
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 3: the REASON i decided to end my. Life so that,

529
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 3: night they wanted to schedule, me which is basically means

530
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 3: they restrain you in a psychiatric. Hospital AND dev was

531
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 3: with me and she, said, no, sorry you're Not you're

532
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 3: not going to do that to my, husband Because dev

533
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 3: knew that if they had scheduled, ME i would have

534
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 3: taken my. Life so she took me home on the

535
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 3: promise that she'd bring me back the next. Day and

536
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 3: the next DAY i went to what they called a

537
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 3: police medical officer who's a LOCAL, gp WHO i had

538
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 3: a sister doing Post more than, THINGS i love the.

539
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 3: Man he played rugby For scotland And i'm a rugby.

540
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 3: Fanatic AND i Remember i'm in there And i'm sobbing

541
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 3: And dev's with, me and he pulls a bottle Of

542
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 3: scotch and a packet Of Winfield, blues so he poured

543
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: me a big, swatch gives me a. Fact i'm there

544
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 3: smoking scotching ball in eyes out. Heran the local psychiatrist

545
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 3: who's only a one psychiatrist sent me straight up there

546
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 3: and that was a really horrible. Experience i've got to say.

547
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 3: Why just a shame and the, humiliation the. Guilt it

548
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,959
Speaker 3: was absolutely. HORRIBLE i just wanted to end it.

549
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: There so these suicidal thoughts are still.

550
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 3: Ongoing they are, THEN i think they're reinforcing him BECAUSE

551
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 3: i felt so much. SHAME i just felt an over

552
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,479
Speaker 3: overwhelming sense of hopelessness and, worthlessness like beyond, comprehension and

553
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: the psychiatrists were very. Blunt he, said i'll do you

554
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: want to livety on a diet AND i, SAID i

555
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 3: don't want to, die But i'm terrified of what's going to.

556
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 3: HAPPEN i might hurt my. Family and he, said if

557
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 3: you want to, Live i'll do my best to help.

558
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 3: You but if you want to, DIE i honestly don't

559
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 3: know what to. Do he, said your. Call you make

560
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 3: a decision basically right, now what you want to. Do

561
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 3: AND i SAID i want to. Live he, said, okay

562
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 3: let's start. That and he started to talk ABOUT, ptsd

563
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 3: WHICH i knew nothing, about started talking about. DEPRESSION i

564
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 3: knew something about.

565
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: DEPRESSION ptsd back then wasn't really a, thing you, know it, was,

566
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 2: yeah you, know you suffer a little bit from mental health.

567
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 3: Issues AND i had no. IDEA i had no. Idea

568
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 3: so then he put me in a drug call, meteral

569
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 3: which is such a strong sedative you can't form any

570
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 3: intent to hurt you or. Anyone AND i was on

571
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 3: that for two weeks AND i just become a, zombie absolute.

572
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 3: ZOMBIE i could do is, smoke make, coffee so then

573
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 3: it was a case of having to agree to see

574
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 3: the psychiatrist three days a, week which was all so

575
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 3: the local mental health, clinic which was also the local methadone.

576
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 3: Clinic So i'd be sitting in the waiting room with

577
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 3: all the local heroinautics who had arrested in. Charge how

578
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 3: that made you feel oh so so, worthless so. WORTHLESS

579
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,719
Speaker 3: i was so ashamed of, it and that was really. Hard,

580
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 3: Yeah and to leave home to go to that psychiatric

581
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 3: afortment three times a, day it was probably the hardest

582
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: Thing i've ever had to do in my. Life AND i,

583
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 3: thought IF i don't, Go i'll never get. Better i've

584
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 3: got to push through. It i've just got to do

585
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 3: WHATEVER i can to get.

586
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: Better and how supportive is your? Wife is she on

587
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: you twenty four to? Seven is she at your?

588
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 3: Side she has never left my side since pretty much

589
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 3: the first day we've got, together and we're still. Together

590
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,719
Speaker 3: and she was, Phenomenal and it would have been so

591
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 3: hard for. Her she had a really hard job young

592
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 3: child and dead was investigating the sexu one fish abuse of.

593
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 3: Children that was her, Job so she had a really tough.

594
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 3: Job and she's trying to care for. Me she had

595
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 3: no idea about mental. ILLNESS i had no worried about mental.

596
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 3: ILLNESS i was on these, drugs, antidepressants and the best the,

597
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 3: psychiatrists because basically do it was explaining WHAT ptsd, was

598
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 3: what depression, was HOW i developed, it WHY i developed,

599
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 3: it but what was the?

600
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: Trigger why did you develop?

601
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 3: It Crescent head was certainly the start of, It but

602
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 3: the start of it was WHEN i became so chronically,

603
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 3: stressed AND i became chronically stressed through a lot of

604
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 3: issues at. Work AND i can look back through all

605
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 3: that now AND i. HAVE i spent years analyzing, it

606
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,959
Speaker 3: working with clinicians to help me understand why why DID

607
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 3: i end up so destroyed and WHAT i can, do

608
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 3: not only to help me never go back, there but

609
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 3: WHAT i can do to Help cops first, responded not

610
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 3: get to WHERE i got.

611
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 2: To and when you were going through, that how did

612
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: the police force manage that with? You they sort of

613
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 2: cut you?

614
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: Off, yeah, yeah, yeah that's how it, was especially back.

615
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: Then. Yeah, yeah that's WHY i, asked BECAUSE i know what, like,

616
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: yeah you're on sick. Leave you, know he's no good to, us.

617
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 3: No get rid of. It so eighteen months, Later i've

618
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 3: got a fank call from headquarters congratulating Made i'm, gone

619
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 3: what are you congratulating me? For and they, said your

620
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 3: last day of work was two weeks? Ago And i'm,

621
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: gone what are you talking? ABOUT i, Said i've never

622
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 3: applied for any discharge and they, said not our. Problem

623
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 3: all very, best say, later.

624
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 2: You didn't know anything about. That not pre warns.

625
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 3: Nothing some public servant from headquarters rings me and tells

626
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 3: me when last day of services was, over and do.

627
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 2: You come back onto the job or you just got

628
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: you off the. Job and then all of a sudden

629
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 2: you go back to work and they tell, You.

630
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 3: I'm no packer. WORK i was at, Home i'm going to,

631
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 3: paint got at. Home but the wonderful thing is today

632
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 3: and there are police officers who have been diagnosed WITH,

633
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 3: ptsd who are under current diagnosis OF, ptsd and someone

634
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 3: medication who are still serving full operational duties and. Go

635
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 3: that is absolutely. Fantastic AND i think those who have

636
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 3: experienced mental ill health such AS ptsd or trauma related mental,

637
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 3: illnesses if you've recovered from, it you have this amazing

638
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,959
Speaker 3: insight into what it's like and you know the warning,

639
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: signs you know what you need to, do and so

640
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 3: for YEARS i have been very determined about looking after

641
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 3: my physical and psychological. HEALTH i know what we all

642
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 3: need to do to make. Sure and the training program

643
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 3: THAT i run for the, police and the training program

644
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 3: my clinical psycholog AND i run is called operational. Readiness

645
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 3: that need to be physically and psychologically ready to do your.

646
00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 3: Job as yours are special forces military, person you know

647
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: the critical importance of being operationally ready because if you're.

648
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: Not if you're, not the risk exponential to, you to your,

649
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 3: teammates to, everybody to your, mission the risk to your.

650
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: Colleagues.

651
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah so that's that's about understanding how you become

652
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 3: chronically stressed or burned, out what you need to do

653
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 3: to minimize the risk of that, Developing what you can

654
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 3: do yourself to reverse that so that you do not

655
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 3: become exposed to traum related mental. Illnesses you can build up,

656
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 3: resilience AND i like to use the term. ENDURANCE i

657
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 3: like to build you build up physical and psychological endurance

658
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 3: to cope with, crisis because as first, responders you are

659
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 3: continually faced with crisis one after the, other so your

660
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 3: ability to build resilience can be. Challenged so you've got

661
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 3: to endure the, crisis and that becomes that is because

662
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 3: you've got to be physically and psychologically as best you can,

663
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 3: be simple as.

664
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 2: Because it's crisis after crisis after. Crisis enjoy that and

665
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: flipping that for, resilience, right because if you don't fit

666
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 2: that to resilience is going to have the detrimental effect

667
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 2: that they had on.

668
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,479
Speaker 3: You deb and we were married In. Paris we spent

669
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 3: five months riding a pushbikes Around. Europe we rode six

670
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 3: thousand kilometers Around europe and our. Pushbikes so we came

671
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 3: back to work In september nineteen ninety. Three we were

672
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 3: both physically and psychologically at top of our. Games, okay

673
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 3: so pretty much About december ninety, THREE i got involved

674
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 3: in an investigation that was the, biggest most intense investigation

675
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 3: of my whole police. Career and that was the starting

676
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 3: point of the domino. EFFECT i can see WHERE i

677
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 3: started to go from what the mental health continue where

678
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 3: you break your psychological health into four. Colors coming back

679
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 3: from our, HONEYMOON i was in the green. Zone probably

680
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 3: By may the next YEAR i was into the yellow

681
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 3: teetering on the orange. ZONE deb had a lot of

682
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 3: crisis with our first. Born she was critically. Unwell that didn't.

683
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 3: Help and then there's this situation at. Work there's a

684
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 3: lot of conflict at Work Crescent head because of all

685
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 3: the things that happened To Crescent. HEAD i was in

686
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 3: the emergency action team that. Night pete was, Murdered Bob

687
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 3: spears was. Murdered pete was a made of. Mine there

688
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 3: were issues THAT i believe were relative To pete's murder

689
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 3: THAT i think could have been. Avoided there was a

690
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 3: lot of things happened post their murders that caused a

691
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 3: lot of conflict and caused a lot of moral. Injury to,

692
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 3: me is the guilt that not? Guilt, no it was

693
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 3: a fact THAT i think that there's a there's a

694
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 3: whole story about, it and where the lack of communication

695
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 3: was significant In pete's. Murder had they've had proper, communication

696
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 3: and you know the operations mission you've been, on communication

697
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 3: is absolutely, vital it is and they were calling for,

698
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 3: assistance but of course the radio is a radio black.

699
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 3: Spot communications were breaking. Down, Pete bob was. Murdered pete's

700
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,919
Speaker 3: trying to get help for his. Mate he's broken into

701
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 3: a house to try and get to a, telephone there's

702
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 3: a breakdown of communication with the. Homeowner pete's gone back,

703
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 3: outside was in the process of reloading his. GUN i

704
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,479
Speaker 3: think the gun can try and take the government out

705
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,760
Speaker 3: because they were ambushed by a gunment and the government

706
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 3: stalked him and shot him and killed. Him so these

707
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 3: were issues THAT i believe the coroner needed to know,

708
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 3: about AND i had that in my, statement but that

709
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 3: evidence Wasn't how would you, say people didn't want that

710
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 3: evidence to come, Out so there's a lot of conflict over.

711
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 3: THAT a whole raft things happened which caused me to

712
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 3: go deep into the orange, zone into the chronic stress,

713
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 3: zone and then struggling with, that trying to do my,

714
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 3: work trying to do this. Investigation, still it all just

715
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 3: caught me to be burnt, out as simple as. That

716
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: but then the rescue, was as you, say the straw

717
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 3: that broke the camel's, back trying to hang, on trying

718
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 3: to hang. On alcohol was a major contributor to my.

719
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,959
Speaker 3: Downfall sleep deprivation was a major contributor all these. THINGS

720
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 3: i realized now the physiological impact on, me HOW i

721
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,439
Speaker 3: broke down physically and, PSYCHOLOGICALLY i can map it absolutely map.

722
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 2: It and when you, left, well when you got told

723
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 2: that your your last days were two weeks, ago what

724
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 2: went through your?

725
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 3: MIND i just want to end it.

726
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 2: Again so you're going back into that. Spiral, Yeah.

727
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 3: And there was no, psychiatrist there's no, psychologists there was

728
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 3: no one to help me accept dev just she knew

729
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 3: that this is not good and she just hung on to.

730
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: Me so you literally grab your, box pack up your stuff.

731
00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:00,280
Speaker 3: And you never never went, back never went back except except.

732
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 2: So they didn't even have you. Back they. Wouldn't they

733
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 2: didn't even bring you in to tell you. That a

734
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 2: Phone accordion said.

735
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: From a headquarters In, Sydney i'm A Coffs. Harbor. Yeah

736
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 3: there was no, communication, nothing just discarded, like oh here's a,

737
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 3: crap which wasn't wasn't. Helpful but the big INVESTIGATION i

738
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 3: started it was a fire up in a little village

739
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 3: way west Of Coff's harbor and a hall had burnt.

740
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 3: Down An aboriginal elder's home had burnt down beside. IT

741
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 3: i eventually charged the hall owner with burning both buildings,

742
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 3: down and eventually he was found. Guilty and it was

743
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 3: the biggest. Investigation it was phenomenal and to have that,

744
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 3: conviction AND i went back to make sure THAT i

745
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 3: saw that trial. Out and funny, enough the granddaughter of

746
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 3: the of the, beautiful average and older whose home burnt,

747
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 3: down she married the little boy who was saved in the.

748
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 3: Drain so you were still in touch with The oh, yeah,

749
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 3: yeah every. Day. Really we went to his wedding.

750
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 2: And immediately after do you build a relationship with?

751
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 3: Him? Yeah he struggled and clearly he DEVELOPED ptsd horrifically,

752
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,439
Speaker 3: wow and his life was hell for years and years

753
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 3: after and he kept got the rest in. Charge many

754
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 3: TIMES i used to write court references for him to

755
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 3: try and keep him out of, jail and you, know

756
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 3: he went to boys homes and adult. Jails and then

757
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 3: one day he made a. Decision he said to his,

758
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 3: Mum i'm never getting in trouble ever. Again and he never.

759
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 3: Has but to go to his, wedding to be back

760
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 3: With Betty's, Allie betty and The stuart family and With jay's.

761
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 3: Family that was a special. DAY i can.

762
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 2: Image and how do you how do you start or

763
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 2: when do you start coming out of you, know because

764
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: now you know your your you're, zillion your your your

765
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 2: mindsets in a good. Place you still suffer FROM. Ptsd

766
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 2: so when did that start to? Turn when did you

767
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 2: start to turn the turn the tables and really come

768
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 2: out of? It and how did you do?

769
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 3: THAT i think that a number of things. HAPPENED i

770
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,439
Speaker 3: was always searching to get my sense of worth, back

771
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 3: AND i became very successful in new. CAREERS i became

772
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 3: a marine, investigator became qualified as marine. Surveyor on the

773
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 3: face OF i was. Successful but In march two thousand and,

774
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 3: nine my girls are nine and, fourteen we went on

775
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 3: one way tickets To. England we bought a yacht and

776
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 3: we sailed that back To. Australia, YEAH i still remember the.

777
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 3: Morning at this, stage we're crossing The Pacific. OCEAN i

778
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 3: still remember this morning as clear AS i. Remember. Ji the,

779
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,959
Speaker 3: moon the full moon was setting as the sun was coming,

780
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 3: out AND i looked at the back of the, boat

781
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 3: And i'm actually videoing it As i'm doing, it And

782
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 3: i've Gone i'm throwing all my past behind, Me i'm

783
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 3: throwing it. Overboard i'm just letting it.

784
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 2: GO i made a constant decision to do.

785
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 3: That, Yeah AND i look back to the bow of

786
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 3: the boat and we're. Heading we're heading for home And i'm,

787
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 3: gone there's my future summary ahead of? Me is my? Future,

788
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 3: wow that's.

789
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 2: Phenomenal and how would you describe from your experience what IS.

790
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 3: Ptsd it's a, living breathing hell of an, imaginable indescribable

791
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 3: pain and a complete sense of no, control and you're

792
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 3: desperate for any any form of. Control your life is

793
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,479
Speaker 3: just spinning out of control and you can't stop.

794
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 2: It and what are the first steps to come out of?

795
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 3: It acknowledging? It acknowledgment, ye accepting that you are mentally?

796
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 3: Unwell and how hard is that to?

797
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 2: Accept it's hard and brutally honest with yourself to SAY

798
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 2: i need help in control of my mind and not

799
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 2: in control of.

800
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 3: MYSELF i have completely lost control of my. Life it

801
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 3: is for, me probably one of the hardest. Things AND

802
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 3: i didn't KNOW i had ptsdwo until the psychiatrist explained

803
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 3: THAT i had it and what the, symptoms all this

804
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 3: sort of, stuff AND i, go that makes. Sense but

805
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 3: AS i, SAID i struggled for years to accept why

806
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 3: DID i become so? UNWELL i think for me that

807
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,919
Speaker 3: was probably the greatest moment WHEN i got. Okay NOW

808
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 3: i can accept it because when you can accept something

809
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 3: and you understand, it then you can become at peace with.

810
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 3: It And i'm very content with my. PAST i completely

811
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 3: accept my, past AND i say that gives me great

812
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 3: confidence for the future Because i've my past is my.

813
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 3: Past it's.

814
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 2: Okay and now that you're in charge and you're in,

815
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 2: control what do you do? Now what's next for? You

816
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 2: just to do these, programs to really try and get

817
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 2: the message out, there the word out, there because the

818
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,439
Speaker 2: more needs to be. Done let's be. Honest of course

819
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 2: it don't, loads of.

820
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 3: Course it, does and it's for. Me it's the start

821
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 3: and one Day i'll pass the bat. Nover i'm still

822
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,720
Speaker 3: playing my. RUGBY i still love my. RUGBY i trained

823
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 3: with indigenous guys At redfern three mornings a week with boxing.

824
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 3: There it's a beautiful social. PROGRAM i have an amazing

825
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 3: relationship with the police and The Police. Association i'm so

826
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 3: proud of WHAT i do and.

827
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:27,959
Speaker 2: You can see.

828
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 3: That, Yeah i'm passionate about. It my Colleague dave is

829
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 3: passionate about. It he has been amazing and the work

830
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 3: he does in his clinical clinical. Practice he helps a

831
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 3: lot of men in particular who are very damaged and

832
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:49,919
Speaker 3: he's he's making huge changes to their life and those

833
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 3: men and, women not only military but first responders who

834
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 3: they deserve to be cared for because of the sacrifices they've.

835
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 3: Made we owe it to them big.

836
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 2: Time. Mate thank you so, much it's been such an interesting. Conversation,

837
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,879
Speaker 2: Alan your jen keep, inspiring keep getting the good message out.

838
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: There thank you so.

839
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 3: Much thanks the. Opportunity, yeah thank, you very. Grateful thank.

840
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: You alan's best selling book is Called The cost Of.

841
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,439
Speaker 2: BRAVERY i link the details in the show. Notes thank

842
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 2: you so much for joining me On. Headgame if you

843
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 2: enjoyed this, episode make sure you're subscribed so you don't

844
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: miss any of our incredible, stories and leave me a

845
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 2: review wherever you're. Listening I'm Matt. Middleton catch you again next.

846
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 2: Time