1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,120
Speaker 1: This is the Fitsy and Whipper with Kate Richie podcast.

2
00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:04,760
Speaker 2: I can tell you what and you'll see it all

3
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:06,560
Speaker 2: over the news today on the front page of the paper.

4
00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,280
Speaker 2: It has been a scary past twenty six hours.

5
00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,160
Speaker 3: There's been a third shark attack in Sydney in twenty

6
00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,320
Speaker 3: four hours, this time on Manly Beach.

7
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,520
Speaker 4: A man has been bitten on his car.

8
00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,320
Speaker 3: Fuled from the water unconscious.

9
00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,560
Speaker 2: A specialist team of paramedic stem the bleeding before he

10
00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,360
Speaker 2: was rushed to a major trauma hospital. The message from

11
00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,520
Speaker 2: authorities to swimmers and surfers is to not get into

12
00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:27,920
Speaker 2: the water.

13
00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:29,080
Speaker 4: My God.

14
00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,040
Speaker 2: After the attack at north Stone yesterday, the Mammi Observer

15
00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,600
Speaker 2: posted these unbelievable eyewitness accounts.

16
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, he just got done go, don't you know?

17
00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,280
Speaker 3: You can see this shark underneath him while he's getting

18
00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:41,000
Speaker 3: shaken around.

19
00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,559
Speaker 5: He's lost his board and so my mateus was like

20
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,600
Speaker 5: a Holy Jesus, So he's just put him on his

21
00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,479
Speaker 5: board like an absolute champion.

22
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,960
Speaker 1: They dragged the person out of the surf amberloons arrived

23
00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,480
Speaker 1: and next thing the helicopter came in. So they worked

24
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:54,760
Speaker 1: on it for a hell of a long time, a

25
00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,680
Speaker 1: hell of a lot of fluid into him and fingers

26
00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:57,840
Speaker 1: crossed that he does make it.

27
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,400
Speaker 5: A few hours before that suspected bull shark, beit an

28
00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:06,520
Speaker 5: eleven year old surfboard This was on dy Beach Day

29
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,320
Speaker 5: earlier that we spoke about the one in Vaucluse as well,

30
00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,160
Speaker 5: that was a twelve year old boy. I mean, we

31
00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,240
Speaker 5: are freaking out now, is it a frenzy? Why is

32
00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,520
Speaker 5: this happening? Doctor Darryl McPhee is a professor of environmental

33
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,679
Speaker 5: science at Bond University. His recent work has focused on

34
00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,399
Speaker 5: the issue of unprovoked shark bites and he joins us

35
00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:26,560
Speaker 5: now doctor thank you very much for coming on the show.

36
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,319
Speaker 3: Hey you, good morning, Good morning listeners.

37
00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,080
Speaker 2: Thank you dark Can you come in. I know this

38
00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,080
Speaker 2: is a very broad question. Can you help us understand.

39
00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,480
Speaker 3: It is a very difficult time for Sydney and the

40
00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,800
Speaker 3: Sydney beach going community. We don't know for sure what

41
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,440
Speaker 3: species of shark was involved in all three. Certainly the

42
00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,000
Speaker 3: one in Sydney Harbor at Bullblues was almost certainly a

43
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,120
Speaker 3: bull shark, and it's both liked the two yesterday or

44
00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,720
Speaker 3: bull sharks as well. We just have perfect conditions around

45
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,800
Speaker 3: Sydney at the moment for bull sharks. Uff that ray

46
00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 3: and you've got a lot of murky water. Bull shark's

47
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,280
Speaker 3: very good at feeding in that murky water and it's

48
00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:04,440
Speaker 3: where their food is.

49
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,240
Speaker 2: Right Dale, Can you explain to us is this out

50
00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,800
Speaker 2: of the ordinary to have bull sharks in such close

51
00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,600
Speaker 2: contact with humans? I mean, is this just bad timing

52
00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,720
Speaker 2: and bad luck? Are they always there and this doesn't

53
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,000
Speaker 2: normally happen or what are your thoughts on that.

54
00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,360
Speaker 3: Bull Sharks are always abundance in the greater Sydney area,

55
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,960
Speaker 3: including in Sydney Harbor in the warm months, particularly January

56
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,760
Speaker 3: in February when the water temperature is high, So the

57
00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,120
Speaker 3: sharks have always been there. They've been there since European

58
00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:42,000
Speaker 3: settlement and obviously before. But it is unusual to have

59
00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,840
Speaker 3: three bites in the Sydney areas such a short period

60
00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,440
Speaker 3: of time. And these shark clusters are not unusual with

61
00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,799
Speaker 3: Sundays and Queens and experienced one. Western Australia experienced one.

62
00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,160
Speaker 3: South Africa has experienced one. But look a certainly is

63
00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,720
Speaker 3: harrowing obviously for the victims and their families. But I

64
00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,079
Speaker 3: know the beach communities, particularly in the northern Beaches, will

65
00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:02,200
Speaker 3: really be suffering at the.

66
00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:07,960
Speaker 5: Moment, Daryl, were we here regularly right? That not to

67
00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,480
Speaker 5: swim when the sun's going down or where there's poor visibility.

68
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:13,959
Speaker 5: Is there any truth in that, Darryl?

69
00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:15,839
Speaker 4: Not to swim later at night?

70
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,240
Speaker 3: So there is some truth that the bull sharks are

71
00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:24,480
Speaker 3: more active in lower light levels, particularly in the afternoon.

72
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,360
Speaker 3: So you've got these murky waters. Sunday was pretty gloomy,

73
00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,960
Speaker 3: pretty murky, really good conditions for bull sharks.

74
00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,200
Speaker 4: And Daryl, can you explain to me?

75
00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,760
Speaker 2: I mean, is a bull shark only going to attack

76
00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,680
Speaker 2: if it is hungry or feel threatened, or is it

77
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,240
Speaker 2: just actively always looking for food and will bite.

78
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,040
Speaker 3: Bull Sharks are actively looking for food, not all the time.

79
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:54,760
Speaker 3: They don't eat all the time. They're opportunistic feeders. The

80
00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,880
Speaker 3: general approaches to bite first and see if whatever they're

81
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,560
Speaker 3: bitten is edible. But look, most of the time the

82
00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,680
Speaker 3: hunting fish, mullet, etc. But they are one species of shark.

83
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,160
Speaker 3: They will actually bite things larger than themselves.

84
00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:13,360
Speaker 5: Right, what works out? Knitting culling? I mean, we don't

85
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,720
Speaker 5: want to call sharks, We don't. I mean that's our

86
00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,520
Speaker 5: last resort. But what does work?

87
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,320
Speaker 3: There is no one magic bullet for all circumstances. Obviously

88
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,120
Speaker 3: in the harbor themselves, the shark enclosures, that's what they

89
00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:30,400
Speaker 3: were designed for perfectly from creating an environment where people

90
00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,159
Speaker 3: can swim which will be shark free as long as

91
00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,960
Speaker 3: as long as they maintained changes in I guess not

92
00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,160
Speaker 3: going into the water in those conditions. Personal to terres,

93
00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,640
Speaker 3: particular electric deterreents can work on surfboards that they have

94
00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 3: been independently tested, so's a few tools in the toolbox.

95
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,560
Speaker 3: There is bite resistant wetsuits which have been well tested,

96
00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,320
Speaker 3: so they does obviously stop the probability of a bite,

97
00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,919
Speaker 3: but it can reduce a serious injury or potentially a

98
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:09,040
Speaker 3: fatal injury too much lesser of an injury. There's few

99
00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,280
Speaker 3: tools in the toolbox, but there is no magic bullet,

100
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,480
Speaker 3: so nobody can click a finger and solve the issue.

101
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 4: Daryl.

102
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,240
Speaker 2: Last night on the couch, I'm sitting there with my

103
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,320
Speaker 2: wife and the kids who were watching the news and

104
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,560
Speaker 2: it was all very confronting, and Lisa turned to me

105
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,039
Speaker 2: and said, do you know what if we're out on

106
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,800
Speaker 2: the boat or doing something, or were in the Sydney Harbor,

107
00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,480
Speaker 2: then I don't want the kids jumping off the back anymore,

108
00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:29,760
Speaker 2: I said, I can understand that, Daryl.

109
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,200
Speaker 4: Would you swim in Sydney Harbor?

110
00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:37,760
Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't, partly because of the high bacterial count.

111
00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,320
Speaker 4: Well, ignore that pictures up the rate.

112
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 3: But focus on focusing on shut certainly that jumping in.

113
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,159
Speaker 3: There's been a number of bites over years from people

114
00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,239
Speaker 3: landing in the water and being bitten very very quickly

115
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:51,560
Speaker 3: once that had happened.

116
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,920
Speaker 5: Oh, Daryl, have you ever have you ever heard a

117
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,000
Speaker 5: frenzy like this? Daryl, I mean to have three in

118
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,719
Speaker 5: twenty six. It's just freaking everybody out.

119
00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,760
Speaker 3: They are known, so there's been a case in the US.

120
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,680
Speaker 3: But look, one bite always it always draws a lot

121
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,200
Speaker 3: of attention and concern. But when you get these series

122
00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,120
Speaker 3: advice and this is a very short period of time,

123
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,480
Speaker 3: even tho I was shocked by the second one, certainly

124
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:25,320
Speaker 3: by the third one. It really does heightened the communities

125
00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,800
Speaker 3: and families sensitivity and concern about going into that marine environment.

126
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,680
Speaker 3: And that's understandable. There's been two people who have almost

127
00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,240
Speaker 3: certainly got life changing injuries and let's hope they pull through.

128
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:39,719
Speaker 3: So it's a very difficult type.

129
00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,840
Speaker 2: Okay, Darryl. The question I was going to ask God

130
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,760
Speaker 2: it just to scope to me. Oh, you mentioned earlier

131
00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,000
Speaker 2: the January and February, the warmer months, the sharks are there,

132
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,760
Speaker 2: and I assume that's because the fish are there. So

133
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,680
Speaker 2: is it getting later and later because the temperatures a rising,

134
00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,880
Speaker 2: or is there more fish in the harbor right now

135
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,800
Speaker 2: or more fish our beaches.

136
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,520
Speaker 3: The available research shows as the waters are warming, the

137
00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,279
Speaker 3: bullsharks at getting to the Sydney region from further north

138
00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 3: earlier in the year, and then they're also leaving later

139
00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,280
Speaker 3: and that's projected to increase r Jinuary February has always

140
00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,120
Speaker 3: been the month where you'd expect to see them, but

141
00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,520
Speaker 3: now they are sort of holding on for a bit

142
00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,160
Speaker 3: longer during their seasonal movements.

143
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 5: Doctor Daryl McPhee, We appreciate your time, probably doing quite

144
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,360
Speaker 5: a few interviews today, so thank you very much for

145
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,640
Speaker 5: coming on the show. Doctor, Thank you.

146
00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,360
Speaker 4: Thanks Sol. That's really interesting to think about.

147
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 5: It's I mean, you're probably not sending the kids in

148
00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,119
Speaker 5: too much unless they they're obviously they're right in front

149
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 5: of you there and they're going up to their knees.

150
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,000
Speaker 5: But it's just I don't know, it's freaking out a

151
00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,960
Speaker 5: little bit on the northern beaches at the moment, isn't it.

152
00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:52,960
Speaker 4: We're going to keep you updated on this, guys.

153
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,360
Speaker 2: Seen Whipper with Kate Ritchie is a Nova podcast walk

154
00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 2: great shows like this. Download the Nova player the app

155
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,200
Speaker 2: Store or Google Play, then overplayer