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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average person has

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Speaker 1: never exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: In part two of my chat with Kate Derouge, we

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Speaker 1: talk about how low her life got, what it was

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Speaker 1: like living in a drug den with ten other people,

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Speaker 1: being attacked by a former partner in a drug fueled

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Speaker 1: rage with a machete, her arrests, and the public humiliation

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Speaker 1: that came with that, along with the threat of going

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Speaker 1: to jail for a long time now, the light bulb

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Speaker 1: moment in Kate's life was when she saw herself in

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Speaker 1: the mirror and was disgusted by what she had become.

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Speaker 1: How she turned the life around and now as a

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Speaker 1: mother of two beautiful children, the message she would be

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Speaker 1: giving to them so they can learn from her mistakes.

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Speaker 1: It was an emotional but inspiring talk and I came

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Speaker 1: away from it with a deeper understanding of how close

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Speaker 1: all of us are to destroying our lives with poor choices.

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Speaker 1: Have a listen to what Kate said. Kate Derouge, welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Part two of I Catch Killers.

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Speaker 2: Thank You. It's it was a big first part nearly there.

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Speaker 1: It was a big first part where it's sort of

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Speaker 1: on a bit of a nosedive at this stage, but

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Speaker 1: we're going to bring leave it back and bring you up.

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Speaker 1: In part one, we talked about your highs and your lowers,

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Speaker 1: your highs with your success from Australian Idol and your

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Speaker 1: career in music that you went on too from there,

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Speaker 1: But we also talked about starting to use drugs and

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Speaker 1: how that got hold of you and then the spiral

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Speaker 1: when you started using ice and I think you were

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Speaker 1: addicted for seven years on that. I was interested that

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize that your parents had pulled you away

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Speaker 1: from it when your career crashed and were trying to

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Speaker 1: get you on the straight and narrow, and you're obviously

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Speaker 1: committed to it. But then you went to Mariuchidor for

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Speaker 1: a radio gig for a couple of months, and you

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Speaker 1: discovered the life again by the sounds of.

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Speaker 2: It, Well, I wouldn't say I discovered the life. I

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Speaker 2: was just trying to fool myself, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I was still hanging onto this concept that I had

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Speaker 2: a career left and using something, whether it be drugs

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Speaker 2: or alcohol. And look and when I've never really identified

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Speaker 2: as an alcoholic, but when I drank, I drank to access,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I would drink vodka for

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Speaker 2: breakfast out of a Gatorade bottle, So you know, I

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Speaker 2: didn't do anything in a healthy way. But yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think I went to this job in Rucchie do Or

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Speaker 2: to try to prove to everybody that I was okay

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Speaker 2: and that I could look after myself and that they

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Speaker 2: were overreacting, and it just was a disaster.

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Speaker 1: There's a quote in again one of the interviews that

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Speaker 1: you've done, and I'll just read it out and we'll

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Speaker 1: discussed that that around this period as well, and truly

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Speaker 1: in the grips of method addictions. So this is when

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Speaker 1: you've started using ice. All I wanted was for everyone

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Speaker 1: to fuck off out of my face so I could

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Speaker 1: use And it hurts my heart to say that I

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Speaker 1: lost all hope, want or care to be any version

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Speaker 1: of the Kate everybody knew. So this is after maroochi

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Speaker 1: d'Or you've lost your way again. And I think you

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Speaker 1: said you were traveling with someone and he had a

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Speaker 1: ice pipe, and you thought why not.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was as simple as you know, and I

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Speaker 2: could sniff out drugs from a mile away, and I

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Speaker 2: jumped in a car, which is reckless in itself. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm in a town I don't know, and in the

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Speaker 2: middle of the night, I jump in a car with

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Speaker 2: a person I don't know, madness, and I could tell

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Speaker 2: that he was on something, and I just said, I

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Speaker 2: don't know what you have, but I didn't care, but

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Speaker 2: you need to give me some And that was it,

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Speaker 2: and that was I you know again, back to that

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Speaker 2: thing of I met this man and he became my world,

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Speaker 2: and I think I didn't leave his side for the

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Speaker 2: next two three years. We just used and traveled around

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Speaker 2: Australia together and it just all seemed honky dory to me.

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Speaker 2: But it was the beginning. And as I said, in

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Speaker 2: the beginning, like everybody was like, I've seen a bit

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Speaker 2: of a changing cake. She's not, I guess because I

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Speaker 2: wasn't shit faced drunk, you know, on the floor by

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Speaker 2: ten o'clock in the morning. People saw an improvement, you know.

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Speaker 2: I was out doing things and being in the world

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Speaker 2: and I'd answer the phone and stuff like that. But

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Speaker 2: it all really went to hell when I got caught

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Speaker 2: using ice and which is where that quote came from,

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Speaker 2: when I got driving under the influence.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, talk us through, talk us through that.

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Speaker 2: So my last ditch effort at regaining some kind of

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Speaker 2: career in my deluded state of mind is I tried

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Speaker 2: to release a song and I did and it was

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Speaker 2: all going really well. And my manager had said to

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Speaker 2: me before we took, you know, on that mission, he said,

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Speaker 2: I'll do this with you one more time, but do

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Speaker 2: not lie to me. I think he used some more

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Speaker 2: choice words than that, but he said, do not lie

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Speaker 2: to me. No drugs, no, no, blah blah blah. And I said, yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: where is good I'm fine, and look, I'd lost an

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Speaker 2: incredible amount of weight by They're not gonna lie. I

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Speaker 2: looked good, looked good. I was skinny, and I was

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Speaker 2: looking the part. And people were like, yes, Kate, you

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Speaker 2: look amazing. You know, people will start your back. People

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Speaker 2: were starting to take me more seriously, which was just

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Speaker 2: fueling my madness. I was like, yeah, this ice thing,

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Speaker 2: it's working for me. And I was in the media again,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was on the big radio shows again.

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Speaker 2: I was doing it, but I was using like a

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Speaker 2: mad woman in the background. And you know, my mum

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Speaker 2: and I had had driven to Sydney. I was going

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Speaker 2: to do a film clip and do all that kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff. And I had to drop her off at

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Speaker 2: the airport. And it was the day after the Mardi Gras,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, after the airport, I'll just

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Speaker 2: have a bit of a look at you know, what's

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Speaker 2: going on the streets of Sydney. It's always a bit interesting.

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Speaker 2: And I come around the bend and there was a

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Speaker 2: booze bus and I drove in there. I thought, you, beauty,

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Speaker 2: haven't been drinking. This won't be a problem. And it

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Speaker 2: was at the beginning of when you know, drug testing,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't even think about it, and I passed

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Speaker 2: my breath test and I went through. He said, oh,

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Speaker 2: if you could just pull in here, you know, we're

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Speaker 2: doing random rug drug tests. And my heart sank and

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Speaker 2: that was me done, so you know, and I remember

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Speaker 2: walking into the big the bus but the second test

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Speaker 2: or whatever it was, and this copper looked at me

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Speaker 2: and he just said, oh you, he said you. He said,

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Speaker 2: I had another one of your kind in here the

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Speaker 2: other day. And you know he was really unkind about it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he was really unkind about it. And yeah that was

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Speaker 2: the end. That was the end of the lot.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So that that hit the media as it was

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Speaker 1: always always going to do, Yes, I would imagine there'd

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Speaker 1: be shame and every other emotion that comes from that.

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Speaker 1: Talk us through that. What that did to you at

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Speaker 1: the time.

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Speaker 2: Yes, of course. So the headline came out, you know,

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Speaker 2: Kate Deruze choose Ice across everything, and you know, I

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Speaker 2: lost whatever slither of respect within the industry and career

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Speaker 2: that I thought I had left in that headline, Like

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Speaker 2: that was it. I lost everything to get about it,

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Speaker 2: and that was it. I And yes, there was a

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Speaker 2: lot of shame and a lot of embarrassment and all

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Speaker 2: of those feelings. But I masked that with anger and

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Speaker 2: it just sent and I didn't know how to process that.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do with it. And I

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Speaker 2: so instead of going, wow, that's a pretty big rock

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Speaker 2: bottom and to the most of the you know, normal people,

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Speaker 2: that would have been enough, But that was the ticket.

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Speaker 2: I guess that my disease and my addiction needed to

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Speaker 2: go right. All think I'm a junkie anyway now, So

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm just going to take off here and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you

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Speaker 2: what it's really like. And I guess it just gave

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Speaker 2: me the permission to use the way that I'd been

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Speaker 2: wanting to use for years, which was with no. I

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Speaker 2: didn't need to hide it anymore, you know, it was

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Speaker 2: just go Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine it would have been a difficult conversation

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Speaker 1: that you had with family or and people close to

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Speaker 1: you when it became public that you're using ice. And

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Speaker 1: just the way you describe that headline so much connotation.

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Speaker 1: There's anyone that's touched ice is just a lost cause. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is just a life spirally in out of control.

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Speaker 1: It might be painful, but the conversations you had with

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Speaker 1: your parents then, Oh.

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Speaker 2: Look, my parents knew. I can't remember if they knew

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Speaker 2: it was ice, but they knew. They knew I wasn't well.

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Speaker 2: I mean, hence why my mom came with me to Sydney.

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Speaker 2: And my mom bless her and rest her soul, and

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Speaker 2: she I wouldn't be here without her, you know. She

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Speaker 2: chased me around this tree, and my siblings chased me

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Speaker 2: around this countryside for years trying to save my life.

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Speaker 2: And I'd be nowhere if I didn't have them in

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Speaker 2: my corner. But they knew I wasn't well. I don't

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Speaker 2: think they knew what degree it had got to. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but I wasn't up for conversations by that point, you know,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't really I wasn't really invested in talking. I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to talk about it. As I said before,

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to talk about it. I wasn't interested

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Speaker 2: in changing. And I was gone.

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Speaker 1: So you went to court. What was the lifestyle you

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Speaker 1: were living at that stage? Like, I got the fact

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Speaker 1: that you were carving your way back into a career,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, writing and doing some things and filming, so

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Speaker 1: it was heading in the right direction. That's been taken

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Speaker 1: away from you. What sort of life were you living after? That?

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Speaker 2: Got pretty bad pretty quick, you know. I went from

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Speaker 2: that life or a bit of that life again, to

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Speaker 2: living in shooting galleries, and you know, wherever I could

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Speaker 2: find a bed, I just would be there. Wherever that

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Speaker 2: wherever the drugs were, and wherever they took me and

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Speaker 2: my you know, as I said, my consequential thinking was

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Speaker 2: gone and I was in I found myself in a

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Speaker 2: lot of dangerous places, with a lot of dangerous people,

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Speaker 2: doing a lot of dangerous things really really quickly. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's what that drug does, quicker than anything else.

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Speaker 2: Because it's all good and well. When you've got the

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Speaker 2: money and you can afford it, and you know, you

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Speaker 2: pay for it, and the dealer will give you the

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Speaker 2: it's not a worry. But as soon as and I've

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Speaker 2: done there's no drugs I haven't tried, right, there's none.

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Speaker 2: I've done them all, But I've never felt the desperation

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Speaker 2: and drive to need to continue to use a drug

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Speaker 2: like methamphetamines. Never. It just possesses you like nothing I

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Speaker 2: could explain to anybody. Once it's in you. Oh and

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Speaker 2: and so I very quickly would just do whatever I

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Speaker 2: needed to do to get what I needed to get,

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Speaker 2: and there were no boundaries to that. Use your mass,

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Speaker 2: so use your imagine, yes, to work out what they

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Speaker 2: look play.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, I've been to the drug dens and

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Speaker 1: difference of stuff where a lot of people are using

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Speaker 1: or abandoned buildings and all sorts of things. I was

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Speaker 1: a hard assed homicide cop and I'd walk into those places.

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Speaker 1: I'd be terrified. It was just it was like something

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Speaker 1: out of a horror movie some of the places that

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Speaker 1: I saw. And you see the people that have been

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Speaker 1: using ice, and there was this glazed look. There was

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Speaker 1: no soul behind the eyes. It was just an anything

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Speaker 1: could happen. So, you know, you're a female, vulnerable female

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Speaker 1: in that stage, addicted to it. I can only imagine

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Speaker 1: the places that you found you found yourself in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the fear like and I'm a pretty nervous person,

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Speaker 2: you know, as the girl that sits here today. But

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Speaker 2: I had no fear and I was and my eyes

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Speaker 2: were black, you know what I mean. There was no

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Speaker 2: there's nothing behind here. And it still hurts me to

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Speaker 2: hear you know, it still makes me emotional and makes me,

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Speaker 2: you know, in my throat to say those things, because

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Speaker 2: that person was was fucked and there's no other word

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Speaker 2: for it, and excuse my language, but I was just

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Speaker 2: I was gone. And I still sit here today realizing

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Speaker 2: how lucky I am to have got out, because not

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Speaker 2: many people once they get lost in that world, it's

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Speaker 2: not easy to make it back.

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Speaker 1: Well, very very few come out, but you're showing that

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Speaker 1: it's possible, and I think that that's an important message.

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Speaker 1: But also the important message is how low that life

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Speaker 1: can can stoop when you're addicted to a drug like ice.

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Speaker 2: I think there's no there is no end to the low,

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Speaker 2: like there will always be a lower low, and just

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Speaker 2: when you think you couldn't possibly do any worse, you will.

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Speaker 2: And I think the true rock bottom in that world

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Speaker 2: is when you're in a box, and that's where it ends. Sadly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you had a couple of other other things

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Speaker 1: that happened you. You got arrested again with a few times,

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Speaker 1: same offense and also weapons charges. And again I know

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Speaker 1: that lifestyle, there's always knives or things around with people

259
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Speaker 1: that are living or trying to protect their ice or

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Speaker 1: get their ice. There's always stuff like that, the chargers.

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Speaker 1: What were the circumstances with your arrests there? That was

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Speaker 1: that was down in Victoria.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I got banned from a couple of towns

264
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Speaker 2: in Victoria along that post part of my bail conditions.

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Speaker 2: Shepherd and Shepanin was the town that changed my life fundamentally.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of stuff happened when I lived there,

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Speaker 2: and I you know, that's when domestic violence and all

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Speaker 2: that kind of stuff really came into my world.

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Speaker 1: Well, I want to talk about you being stabbed with

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Speaker 1: a machete, but.

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Speaker 2: We'll get Oh yep, now we can get to that.

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Speaker 1: We'll get the back. We're just working through the list.

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Speaker 1: At this start, I should have laughed.

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Speaker 2: It's not funny.

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Speaker 1: It's not funny. It's not funny. And I promise, I promise,

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Speaker 1: we give you a ladder to crawl your way out

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Speaker 1: of here. But okay, we'll talk the next couple of arrests.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I did. I got a rest a few times,

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Speaker 2: and look they were always for driving under the influence,

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Speaker 2: you know, got lost my license a few times and

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Speaker 2: then drove a few times whilst had I didn't have

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Speaker 2: my license got caught, the weapons was possibly was getting

283
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Speaker 2: a bit more serious, and you know when I started

284
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Speaker 2: getting correction orders and all that kind of stuff, and

285
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Speaker 2: you know, I'm really lucky. I remember, you know, being

286
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Speaker 2: in the cells and being stripped and all of that

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00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 2: fun stuff that happens. But yeah, there was I couldn't

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Speaker 2: tell you. I can't remember how many there were, but

289
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Speaker 2: there were enough.

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Speaker 1: It's daunting, isn't it, Like when you cut your freedom's

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Speaker 1: being taken away from you. It's not the world that

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Speaker 1: you've grown up to and have an expectation you're going

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Speaker 1: to win there. But and you had a threat of

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Speaker 1: a fairly lengthy custodial sentence hanging over your head too,

295
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Speaker 1: so that must have been played on your mind.

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Speaker 2: I did, and look, I remember, and you know it's

297
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Speaker 2: not funny. Again. I shouldn't laugh, you know, I remember

298
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Speaker 2: because I was hanging around with some pretty big criminals

299
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Speaker 2: by that point, people doing really bad things and her people,

300
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Speaker 2: and like a lot of crime that is so far

301
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Speaker 2: from the world that I grew up in or anything

302
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Speaker 2: that I could relate to, you know what I mean.

303
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Speaker 2: And I look at those guys but now and feel

304
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Speaker 2: sad for them. Because at the end of the day,

305
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,840
Speaker 2: they were just really sick people like I was, with

306
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Speaker 2: a hell of a lot less resources and love in

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Speaker 2: their life to help them get better. But yeah, like

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Speaker 2: I remember everybody, when anybody ever got locked up and

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Speaker 2: come out of the cells, it was like, where's your tape?

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Speaker 2: Give me your tape, you know, because everyone always thought

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Speaker 2: everyone was going to rat on one another and tell

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Speaker 2: each other off or whatever. And I remember the first

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Speaker 2: time that I got locked up in the cells and

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Speaker 2: I had to sit there and the detective and go

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Speaker 2: through it all. And they did the tape and I

316
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Speaker 2: just sat and I cried, and I and I you know,

317
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Speaker 2: I was so busy running like this big gangster that

318
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Speaker 2: I thought that I'd become this big, bad ass gangster.

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Speaker 2: And I think and I was all and I was

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Speaker 2: all back, and I sat in this tape and just

321
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Speaker 2: cried for three hours, you know what I mean, just

322
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Speaker 2: sobbed like a baby and wanted my mum and begged

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Speaker 2: them to let me go so I didn't have to

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Speaker 2: front cod. I think I said something like, please, you

325
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Speaker 2: can't let me go to court in the morning. It'll

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Speaker 2: ruin my career. Like I didn't have a career by

327
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Speaker 2: that point. But you know, I'm still holding on to

328
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Speaker 2: this thing, and I knew that I couldn't really talk

329
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Speaker 2: about anything that I wanted to talk. I remember just

330
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Speaker 2: wanting to tell this detective everything because I was just

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Speaker 2: so sad and I just had this moment of vulnerability

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Speaker 2: and I couldn't because I knew the people waiting out

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Speaker 2: in the front of me would want my tape.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, you're vulnerable there, and what we're talking about

335
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Speaker 1: there is someone that gets locked up. Well, the first

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Speaker 1: off of that, cops give where did you get your

337
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,240
Speaker 1: drugs from? You give up the dealer and all that,

338
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Speaker 1: and then yeah, you're not hanging around with the nicest

339
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 1: people at this stage and you start talking and there's consequences.

340
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Speaker 1: So you absolutely delve right into this. It's a bit

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Speaker 1: of a different world than the Australian idol, isn't.

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Speaker 2: It slightly different ends of the scales. Yeah, and it

343
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,240
Speaker 2: was an eye opener, but again, it just was this

344
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Speaker 2: and I remember thinking a few times like how am I?

345
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Speaker 2: How was this my life? But it was and I

346
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Speaker 2: didn't know how to fix it.

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Speaker 1: Did you look at like other people from the people

348
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,439
Speaker 1: you contemporary? So the ones that you were playing music with.

349
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Speaker 1: And yeah, members of young divas when their careers are

350
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,360
Speaker 1: going from strength to strength, did you sometimes sit there

351
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Speaker 1: and go, I used to sing with them in your

352
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Speaker 1: own yeah, in your own mind.

353
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well people, but you know what, people people

354
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,720
Speaker 2: knew that the circles that I was running, and people

355
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Speaker 2: knew who I was. People knew where I came from,

356
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Speaker 2: and they used to some people used to find it

357
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Speaker 2: fascinating and and I wore it as a bit of

358
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Speaker 2: a badge embarrassingly for a little while.

359
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wondered whether that carried anything in that. But yeah,

360
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 1: you're in all these people with their failed lives, and

361
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,600
Speaker 1: you would have had a story. I used to be something.

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Speaker 1: This was who I.

363
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Speaker 2: Still think, and I am somebody in a way, you know.

364
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,000
Speaker 2: But I'm sitting in the same rooms with all of

365
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Speaker 2: these people think and I'm still somebody of some importance,

366
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Speaker 2: and you know, I again, that just is a representation

367
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Speaker 2: of how deluded I was at that time. And I did,

368
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Speaker 2: you know. I would see the girls have their successes

369
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,240
Speaker 2: in the media or something. You'd catch my eye in

370
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,480
Speaker 2: a magazine or on Facebook or whatever it was, and

371
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,800
Speaker 2: it hurt. But I would just bury that in the

372
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Speaker 2: backpack with all the other shit that I was trying

373
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Speaker 2: to avoid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and for your second door, your further arrests the

375
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Speaker 1: media attention again, and at that point in time, the public,

376
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Speaker 1: I would suggest to just writing your offers are there's

377
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,280
Speaker 1: no hope for this person?

378
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,479
Speaker 2: Nah? She I think I think the last time, I

379
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,600
Speaker 2: think I was looking at fifteen years, which I don't

380
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,560
Speaker 2: think I ever was, but that's what the media said

381
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 2: I was. That was the headline. My poor grandma, the

382
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,080
Speaker 2: sweetest person you've ever known in your life, rang up

383
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 2: and said, now, Darling, I'm going to come to court.

384
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:38,440
Speaker 2: I'm going to put on a nice dress and tell

385
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,399
Speaker 2: them that you're a nice girl. You know. I was

386
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,439
Speaker 2: just I was just really yeah. I was deep in

387
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,600
Speaker 2: it by that point, and I luckily didn't end up

388
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Speaker 2: in jail. I had a very good lawyer, and I

389
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,480
Speaker 2: did my directions and my CCO, my community corrections order,

390
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,399
Speaker 2: and completed that a couple of years later. But it

391
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,120
Speaker 2: wasn't long after that that court case that things changed.

392
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Speaker 1: The situation where you were attacked with a man in

393
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Speaker 1: your life and a drug fueled rage with a machete

394
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 1: doesn't sound very nice. Are you kind enough to tell

395
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 1: us what happened there.

396
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I met my Look, I've been addicted to

397
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,639
Speaker 2: all kinds of things, and love is no different. And

398
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 2: I was a crazy love addict, and you know, I

399
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,720
Speaker 2: would fall in love instantly with the most toxic of humans.

400
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,480
Speaker 2: And you know, I've done that a lot over the years,

401
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 2: and he was no different. And I met him in

402
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,400
Speaker 2: a really dark moment. And I remember he walked into

403
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,719
Speaker 2: this house I was in. I was really strung out

404
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,719
Speaker 2: and I had no money and no drugs, and he

405
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 2: walked in and essentially pulled me out of his house

406
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,200
Speaker 2: and we just became joined at the hip then and there,

407
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:54,960
Speaker 2: and I just thought he was the most amazing thing ever.

408
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,199
Speaker 2: And as those relationships do, and it's very common in

409
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 2: that that world, like there's so much violence, and that

410
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,479
Speaker 2: relationship became no different. And he was a very violent

411
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 2: and angry man, and you know that became a part

412
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,080
Speaker 2: of my story. But in the madness of it all,

413
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,919
Speaker 2: you know, domestic violence is very complicated. And I was

414
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,159
Speaker 2: so addicted to him and the way he made me

415
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 2: feel in so many ways that you know, I stayed

416
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 2: for a really long time. Yes, he did stab me

417
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 2: with a machete in my left hip one day. That

418
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 2: was a time.

419
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 1: Did you go to the hospital with that or go

420
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 1: to the police or were the place called?

421
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 2: Or I had to go to the hospital. And obviously

422
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,120
Speaker 2: on the way too that he drove me to the hospital.

423
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 2: We had to come up with a story that was

424
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 2: you know, I.

425
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 1: Can imagine you two creative genius as a story you

426
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,480
Speaker 1: came up with that would be, I see.

427
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 2: I fell on a piece of tin on a job site,

428
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 2: I think was the story. And they knew that that

429
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 2: wasn't true, and I think they sent him away to

430
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 2: go take a picture of the piece it in and

431
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 2: he went and threw away the machete, and you know,

432
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 2: and that was that was the end of that. And

433
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,159
Speaker 2: they asked me if I needed help, and I said, no,

434
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 2: what You've been ridiculous and got out the next day

435
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 2: and carried on.

436
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 1: Look, you look back at the life, and I know

437
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,880
Speaker 1: we're laughing at certain aspects of it, and I honestly

438
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,919
Speaker 1: think that's some ways you've got to deal with it

439
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 1: in process that you've got to look at and go

440
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: this was just chaos because you were living and I

441
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 1: think the low point in your life was living in

442
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 1: a drug house with ten other people, and I'm imagining

443
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,880
Speaker 1: they're not fine, upstanding citizens. They would have been ten

444
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,880
Speaker 1: other people chasing the hit like you were chasing.

445
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 2: They certainly weren't the best versions of themselves.

446
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 1: No, that must have been. Yeah, just chaotic and just yeah.

447
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,880
Speaker 1: I look at places like that and think, how does

448
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 1: anyone survive in that sort of place?

449
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 2: Oh, look, it's this. You won't find us out a

450
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 2: more pathetic space to be. And there's just people that

451
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,679
Speaker 2: are total prisoners to themselves. Yeah, and no, again, as

452
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 2: I said, and look, those people that I was spending

453
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 2: in that time again didn't have the love and the

454
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 2: resources that I had available to me. And I'm eternally

455
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 2: grateful for that. And I'm not saying that that made it,

456
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 2: you know, any different for me to get it was

457
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 2: just as hard for me to get clean. But they

458
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 2: didn't have a mum necessarily, some did, but not all

459
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 2: of them didn't necessarily have a mum chasing them around

460
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 2: the countryside trying to get them help.

461
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 1: But I think something like that might be the difference

462
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 1: with you coming out and surviving it with you had

463
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 1: some people that just didn't give up on you, like

464
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: everyone else has just walked away. But you made a

465
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 1: point I think in part one about the importance of

466
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 1: family and old old friends, and they're the ones that

467
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: stick around regardless and always have your back.

468
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And when we get to the part

469
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 2: where things get good and family is a really important conversation.

470
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: Well let's start turning it around. But the last last

471
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 1: thing and a quote that when you did turn it around,

472
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: you make a point that your family never gave up

473
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 1: on you, especially your mum. But you've been quoted here.

474
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: I call the glimpse of myself in the mirror, and

475
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: these are your words. I was bone thin, my face

476
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: was messed up, and I was alone, and I looked

477
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 1: at myself and thought, who are you calling the moment

478
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 1: of sanity or divine intervention? But I knew if things

479
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: didn't change, I was going to die. Can you talk

480
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: us through that moment?

481
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 2: So yeah, look, it was rock bottom is an interesting thing,

482
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 2: and I like, as I said, I've had all the

483
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 2: external dramatic rock bottoms that you could think of. Like

484
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 2: by the time I got to the end, I had nothing.

485
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: There was no not a dollar to my name, not

486
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 2: a nothing, you know what I mean? Like there was

487
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 2: nothing so and I think quite oftenatics need to get

488
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 2: to this point. It's not about any of the external stuff.

489
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,239
Speaker 2: It's got to be an internal shift. And I just

490
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 2: caught myself that day, and I still I'll never know

491
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,439
Speaker 2: what it was that made me see myself different in

492
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 2: that moment, but I saw it, and I saw it

493
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 2: for everything that it was, and it was really hard

494
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 2: and really terrifying, and I did. I knew in that

495
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 2: moment if I didn't change now, that I was going

496
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 2: to die, and that there was no other path for me.

497
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 2: I knew that.

498
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: And your mum from that point in time, you contacted

499
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: your mum and she came and picked you up.

500
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I rang Mum. And I'd never and look, I've

501
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 2: been to in the however, many twelve thirteen years of

502
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: using drugs and alcohol the way that I did, I

503
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 2: had never gone to rehab because I wanted to. I'd

504
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 2: been plenty of times. I think I went six or

505
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 2: seven times. I'd always been for somebody else and to

506
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 2: save something else or to appease somebody else. But this

507
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 2: was the first time I called and said, Mum, I

508
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 2: need you to come and get me like I I'm

509
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: going to die and I need help.

510
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: I think that's an important thing, isn't it that the

511
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: other times you've gone, you're doing it because you've got

512
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: a court matter coming up or someone told you to do.

513
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: This is the light bulb moment where you think, no,

514
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it because I want to do it,

515
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: and that must make it make a big difference. There

516
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: was another thing, and it was a sad part in

517
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: the article I read that your mums picked you up

518
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: and you've gone back to the place to pick up

519
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: your belongings, but you basically didn't have any belongings because

520
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,239
Speaker 1: you'd hocked everything and whatever you had left there. But

521
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: you had a box containing fan mail there and.

522
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 2: I've still got I've still got that box.

523
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,479
Speaker 1: That just made it just made me feel sad, Like

524
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: I can just picture it going there and I've got nothing.

525
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 1: And then there's people that used to look up to you,

526
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: people that respected you, and you know, fan mail there.

527
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: How did that make you feel?

528
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 2: I mean, it's pretty embarrassing, really, you know. I guess

529
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 2: it's pretty symbolic of exactly the position I was in,

530
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 2: Like I was had hopped everything of any value and

531
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 2: the only things I had left of any importance or

532
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 2: that I deemed important was letters from strangers that I'd

533
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 2: never met, and and why I thought they were important

534
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: and why I still had them and why I put

535
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 2: them in the ca And I've still got that box

536
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 2: and I'll always always keep that box. And you know

537
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 2: I have there's pictures and girls have written letters and

538
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: made photo books of all of the places that I've

539
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 2: been and seen. It was you know, yeah, it was hard.

540
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 2: It's been that part to let go of that part

541
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 2: of my life and to put that and to and

542
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: it was a grieving process to grieve that person and

543
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 2: that the idea of how I thought my life would

544
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 2: play out took a really long time to put it

545
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 2: in a place that I'm that I'm peaceful with and

546
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 2: have a lot of acceptance and I don't live in

547
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 2: a space of what if anymore.

548
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: You've got through through that, you're back with your mum,

549
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: and you're honesty, and I appreciate your honesty that yeah,

550
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: you're not going to touch drugs again, but you touch

551
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 1: it one more time.

552
00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: I touched it a few more times.

553
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: All the time, sorry said one more time, you were alone.

554
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: I knew more.

555
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: Okay, no, No, it was a few look, I went

556
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: to rehab. Three days later, I did. I went. I

557
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 2: went back to a rehab that was that I'd been

558
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: to a few years earlier. That I stayed long enough

559
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: to know that there was a way out. But I

560
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: was deep in that relationship. And whilst I stayed in

561
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 2: that relationship, I was never ever going to get clean.

562
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: But it gave me enough to know that they were

563
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 2: there when and if the time ever came, and I

564
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 2: went to their facility, but it wasn't a hospital or

565
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 2: a lockdown setting. And I knew that I needed to stop,

566
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: but I didn't know it was Having to stop was

567
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: a whole different ballgame. And so you know that powerlessness

568
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 2: and that drive, and yeah, I just couldn't control myself.

569
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: So at nighttime, this is the truth. So at nighttime,

570
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: when everybody else will go to bed and you could

571
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 2: walk out the door, I'd be laying in bed, begging

572
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 2: myself not to go, and I'd get up and I'd

573
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: go and use, and I'd come back and then try

574
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 2: and pretend that I hadn't used. And it was the

575
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: most painful way to exist in the world. And so

576
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: that went on for a little while, and then eventually

577
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: I got caught doing that, and I went to a

578
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 2: place called mold And Private Hospital in Melbourne and I

579
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 2: walked through the doors and I'll never forget this moment.

580
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 2: The last time I ever used a drug on the

581
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:21,239
Speaker 2: twenty sixth of March twenty eighteen, and I had this

582
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: really romantic idea of how it was going to end,

583
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 2: and it was going to be, you know, this way,

584
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 2: and I had this big I won't use the wording,

585
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 2: but I had this I had this big bit of

586
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: drugs that I'd saved and I was going to use

587
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 2: right before I walked in and I used and it

588
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 2: didn't do anything, and it was the scariest moment of

589
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 2: my life, you know what I mean. The drugs didn't

590
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 2: work anymore, and it was I just knew that it

591
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 2: was time for me to face myself, and so in

592
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 2: I went. And I spent six weeks in that particular

593
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 2: facility and it was the most painful, terrifying experience in

594
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: my life. I detoxed from that relationship that I mentioned

595
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: At the same time, it was the last time I

596
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: had any contact with him too, which was equally as painful.

597
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 2: And that was the beginning of the rest of my life.

598
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: You would have to, I would imagine have to break

599
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: away from him as well, the two of you together

600
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: with one and show weakness and drag the other one down,

601
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: or vice versa. Absolutely the six weeks of detox and

602
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: you said it was the most painful time. Just tell

603
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: the listeners that don't really understand what it involves physically, emotionally,

604
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: everything that had on you that six weeks.

605
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: So the physical part, I guess, you know, And all

606
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 2: drugs are different, but the physical part with ICE is

607
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 2: pretty quick. It hurts, like the body hurts and it

608
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: aches and it's tired and all that stuff. But it's

609
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 2: not like other B toxes. It's the mental game, I

610
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: guess with Ice. And you know, I'd been gathering hate

611
00:29:54,160 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: and shame and guilt and for myself and Karen, dragging

612
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: that shit around since I was five, you know what

613
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: I mean. And I just I just gathered so much

614
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 2: of this pain and anxiety and fear and resentment and

615
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 2: all of this shit that I've been lugging around. And

616
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 2: I'd been avoiding it, and I had done literally everything

617
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: in my power to avoid it for thirty two years.

618
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: And I got lobbed and all of those things that

619
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: kept me safe from feeling that got stripped off me

620
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: and I got left to sit with myself, no phones,

621
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 2: no internet, no ringing up somebody to distract it, like,

622
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 2: I'm just left with myself to sit in it. And

623
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: he was terrifying. And I had to face myself. I

624
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: had to face all of those things that I'd done

625
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: in the using, all the people that i'd hurt, all

626
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 2: the things that i'd all the people that I'd wronged,

627
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: which was a lot by that point, and that takes

628
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 2: a lot of making peace with oneself to face that

629
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: and take responsibility for it and not blame anybody else

630
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: anymore and point my finger at the rest of the world.

631
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: And you know, I had to look at myself and go, well,

632
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 2: this is on u k. Like nobody else can fit.

633
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: Nobody else in this world is going to be able

634
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: to fix this. But you are the only person that

635
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: can process hate, responsibility and move on from this. Your mum,

636
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 2: your dad, your brother, your sister, God himself can't help

637
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: you here. It's you. And so the first few things

638
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 2: that really needed to change, and with the ultimate shift

639
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: was I knew that I couldn't trust myself. I was

640
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: not a trustworthy person in my life. Any thinking, any

641
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 2: thinking that I had come up with wasn't going to

642
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 2: get me anywhere good, you know what I mean? It

643
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: was only going to lead me back out the doors,

644
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: back into the houses, back into the places that I was.

645
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: And I needed to come to terms with that and

646
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 2: accept it. So I shut up and I listened to

647
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: what these people in this place said and just didn't

648
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 2: act on any thought that I had. And that was

649
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: the bigg That was how it started to change, is

650
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: when I went, you know what, I just need to

651
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: listen and trust all these other people that have got

652
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 2: my best interests at heart, and forget about any ideas

653
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: I think I might have.

654
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: That's a big shift in mine, said, isn't it Just

655
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: You've got to make sure you don't trust yourself. But

656
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: look where you're trusting yourself has taken you.

657
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: Trusting me was a bad plan, and too long a

658
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 2: time on my own, in my own thoughts, left to

659
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 2: my own devices was and then stayed that way for

660
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 2: a few years, you know.

661
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: Ye, Well, yeah, I've spoken to people that have beaten

662
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: an addiction, but they say it's always there. You've got

663
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: to constantly work on yourself and how long? How long

664
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: have you been cleaned for now?

665
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 2: Coming up?

666
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: As and do you is there practices you have in

667
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: place to make sure that you don't have any setbacks?

668
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 2: Yeah? Look, look I haven't in a normal day to

669
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: day life, I haven't thought about using drugs or alcohol

670
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: can be challenging at times. Yeah, not that I've thought

671
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,959
Speaker 2: about drinking, but sometimes I get a bit of fomo

672
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 2: for a second, and then I wake up feeling good

673
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 2: and everyone else's shit and then I go, yeah, not sad,

674
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: I don't feel like then. But It's been years since

675
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: I've thought about using drugs, you know. But there's certainly

676
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: things that I do in my life to keep myself safe,

677
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: Like I'll share this story, and this is a really

678
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: important story and perspective for maybe anybody who's going junkies

679
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 2: and junkies your choice. You chose that and all of

680
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: that mentality, which I totally understand and respect, because unless

681
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: you witnessed it or had a loved one go through it,

682
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: or been through it yourself, it's really hard to understand

683
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: why any normal person, when they get in that much

684
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 2: trouble and pain can't just pull themselves up and change.

685
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: And I get that but there's things I have to

686
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: do to keep myself safe. For example, I had to

687
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: hit replacement a couple of weeks ago, and I knew

688
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 2: going into that that I would have to take pain

689
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: medication and there would be some things involved in that that,

690
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: you know, steps out of the rules of my normal

691
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 2: day to day life. And because of previous experiences in

692
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: recovery with taking pain meds, you know, I knew that

693
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 2: that would turn that part of my brain up. And

694
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 2: it was as an And it doesn't matter how many

695
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: years or how much talking or how much awareness I

696
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 2: think I have or how cool I think I am

697
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 2: around it. If I don't put certain steps in place

698
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 2: before those drugs hit my system, I'm gone, you know.

699
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: And I experienced that in real time, and it's really

700
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: interesting to be able to watch that part of my

701
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 2: brain with awareness attached of Like, as I woke up

702
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 2: from that surgery, before both of my eyes could open,

703
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: I was thinking about how I could manipulate the nurse

704
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: to give me more phentanyl.

705
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: Scary, isn't it.

706
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 2: That's not choice to me, that's powerlessness. Now on the

707
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 2: flip side of that, recovery is one hundred percent my choice.

708
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: There is nobody else responsible for me men clean other

709
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 2: than me, And it's the choices that I make in

710
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 2: my sane mind today that keep me safe from that

711
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: part of me. So that's kind of how it works.

712
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned when you're going in the hospital for

713
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: the surgery, you said that you put steps in place.

714
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: What steps did you put in place?

715
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 2: So the first is everybody who's involved in that surgery

716
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 2: knows in advance that I'm a recovering addict, like the surgeon,

717
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 2: the anethetist, my nurses, anybody that's got anything to do

718
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 2: with it, knows that the likelihood of me drug seeking

719
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: is possible and that I might be asking for drugs

720
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: that I don't need. Okay, So that's the first one, Yeah,

721
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 2: that normally, And the second one is no, I try

722
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 2: really hard not to go home with any medication that

723
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 2: I can misuse and know like just in case prescriptions.

724
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: So I did have to come home with some this time.

725
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: I came home with minimal, though, and I can't be

726
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 2: in charge of the medication. Somebody that I know, love

727
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 2: and trust and understand the situation has to be in

728
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: charge of the meds, and I just up my recovery game.

729
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: So I check in with the people that I know

730
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: from NA and the people that understand what can happen,

731
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 2: you know, my family, checking with my family, anybody who

732
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 2: sort of knows me and knows how my brain can

733
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: be affected. And it was I'll tell you, like it

734
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 2: was rough. It was a rough week. I had a

735
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 2: lot of crazy thoughts and I just was really noticing

736
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 2: my thinking and my behaviors were just no good. So

737
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: everybody's just a little bit more on guard. But I

738
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: keep talking and I don't pretend that I'm okay. I

739
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 2: think that's the most important one. I don't try and

740
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 2: pretend that I got it covered, because I probably don't.

741
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 2: So I just say, hey, I'm having doesn't mean that

742
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 2: I'm going to run off tomorrow and buy a bag

743
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: of coke, but like, I'm having a rough week, and

744
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 2: so just keep an eye on me.

745
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: Okay. That's good advice, speaking advice. If you had children's

746
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: loved ones or someone close to you going through what

747
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: you went through at your worst times, as you're trying

748
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: to come out, as you would diving in deeper, what

749
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: sort of device, what sort of support would you try

750
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: and give that person?

751
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I get I get a lot of families

752
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: contact me on social media asking me how do they

753
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 2: help their son, brother, mother, whoever it might be. And

754
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 2: it's such a hard one and I wish I had

755
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 2: a magical answer for them, but the truth is you

756
00:36:55,120 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 2: can't in a way like they'll get they'll offer them

757
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 2: the help and have the help there, I guess, but

758
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 2: they'll only change when they're ready to change, or if

759
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: they're ready to change. The best thing that you can

760
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 2: do for you is get educated. Get educated. Find there's

761
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 2: a couple of different support groups. Family Drug Support FDS

762
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: is a wonderful community of loved ones that you know,

763
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: alan On is another one. And get educated on addiction

764
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 2: and get educated on where to find the right help,

765
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: because I think that's one of the most overwhelming things

766
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: for families is when somebody is ready to get clean

767
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 2: or sober or whatever it might be, they don't know

768
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: where to go. You know, contact me. I'm always happy

769
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 2: to share. I know some really reputable places in this

770
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: country that I trust and with that kind of stuff.

771
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: But get educated, get yourself educated so for the day

772
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 2: when they do come to you and say I'm ready,

773
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 2: You're ready, And that's I think one of the biggest

774
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 2: things and mistakes that families make, and my family did

775
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: for a long time until they got their own help

776
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: and support, which they did. You know, when they went

777
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 2: and got their own support, was enabling. You know, there's

778
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 2: a fine line between love and enabling. And it's a

779
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 2: really tricky one.

780
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: It's a tough one, isn't It really is a tough one.

781
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: But I like that I'll take that away about getting

782
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: educated about it, because at some point in time, if

783
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: you get the opportunity, you know what you're dealing with

784
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: and what the best way of approaching it.

785
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 2: Is so a great because often often addicts will tell

786
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 2: you how they think they need to be loved as

787
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: opposed to how they actually need to be loved in

788
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,479
Speaker 2: those times. And if you can, if you can work

789
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 2: that out, then you two steps ahead.

790
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: And you talk enabling. That's a difficult thing for with

791
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: someone's going through it that you love. I'm there to

792
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: support you. Sometimes it's got to be tough. Love, draw

793
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: a line in the sand, and okay, this is it.

794
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 2: Tough, tough little boundaries, boundaries, boundaries, and it's so hard

795
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 2: when and I nearly fell off my chair when my

796
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: mum and dad blessed their hearts. They didn't know any better.

797
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 2: Enabled the hell out of me for years. And the

798
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 2: day they turned up with boundaries and awareness and knowledge,

799
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,959
Speaker 2: I was checkmate, you know what I mean? I had,

800
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 2: I was done.

801
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: That's a good way of putting it. They've checked, madeed you,

802
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: they check how can I maneuver around this? Yeah?

803
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: And I was just like, no, these are the rules,

804
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 2: these are the boundaries. Will help you with this. You know,

805
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 2: we're not going to let your start, but I'm not

806
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 2: going to give you the fifty dollars to go get

807
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 2: the groceries. I'll turn up your house with fifty dollars

808
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 2: worth of groceries. And it was just the way they

809
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 2: shifted it into a way that was helpful as opposed

810
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: to enabling.

811
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: And that's that's good knowledge. So that's a good good information.

812
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 1: Have you mended your relationships with your family and friends?

813
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: Like you said, there's a lot of people that you

814
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: needed to apologize for all the terrible things that you've done.

815
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: How is your relationship with your family and your close friends,

816
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: your long term friends unbelievable?

817
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 2: You know, I by the time I got clean, nobody

818
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: really wanted to come near me with a ten foot poll.

819
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: I guess your parents or I'm lucky. My parents, you know,

820
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 2: always loved me. They were furious. And look, the first

821
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 2: thing you want to do about a week after getting

822
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 2: clean is you want to call everybody and apologize and

823
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 2: say how sorry you are. And you know, I think

824
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 2: there's normally that natural thing of all. I just wanted

825
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 2: to I'm like, I'm fine now if everyone could just

826
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 2: forgive me. But you know, I'd said sorry forty thousand

827
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 2: times already and it meant nothing. And it really just

828
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: took time. It took time of me showing up and

829
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 2: doing what I said I was going to do, and

830
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: you know, continuing to do behaviors that slowly but surely

831
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 2: let them trust me again. And that took time to

832
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 2: build on that. And you know, I had to remove

833
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: my expectations on them forgiving me and let them forgive

834
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 2: me and rebuild our relationship in their time. And that's

835
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 2: another mindset that I think has to happen in in recovery.

836
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 2: Like they didn't know me and forgiveness, no one did,

837
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: No one owed me anything, And I had to go

838
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 2: into asking for forgiveness without expectation of forgiveness. You know,

839
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 2: it had to be about just apologizing because it was

840
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 2: the right thing to do. But yeah, that took years

841
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 2: to get to that point. But you know, my sister

842
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 2: and I I don't know how many times a day

843
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 2: I talked to it, but we both have little babies

844
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: about the same age, and you know, we're best friends,

845
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 2: and my brother and I and Sally. I lost my

846
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 2: mum a couple of years ago, which was pretty rough times,

847
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 2: you know, But I did that without having to use

848
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 2: which was pretty remarkable.

849
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 1: Yea. Yeah, Well, it's those little setbacks that there's always

850
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: that danger period. But it sounds like you've got an

851
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: awareness of what you need to do to protect your

852
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: protect yourself.

853
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 2: And that's what recovery is. It's about knowing and accepting

854
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 2: my flaws and where I trip up and not trying

855
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 2: to pretend that I've got this.

856
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: You know.

857
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the most dangerous things for

858
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: people who are addicts, is going I've got this, don't

859
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: worry about it, like I don't have this, Like there's

860
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 2: I'm only a couple of mistakes away from picking up

861
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: a drug and I'll and it's really people find that

862
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 2: really disheartening. And I don't I just that's just what

863
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 2: I have to know for myself to keep myself safe.

864
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 2: And because you know, I know that if I pick

865
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 2: up a drug tomorrow. You know, I say this all

866
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 2: the time. I'm a drug addict. I love drugs, and

867
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 2: I you know, we'll always be more using in me.

868
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 2: But I don't know if there'd be another recovery. I

869
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: don't know about that.

870
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: It be a long podcast if there was.

871
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, God help me.

872
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: I make this observation. I see friends that have had

873
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: problems with alcohol or drugs or whatever, and sometimes I

874
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: get frustrated the people that are close to them. You know,

875
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 1: the person that's clearly got a drinking problem. Let's say,

876
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,919
Speaker 1: I'll come on, mate, we'll go out for a drink.

877
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: Or they've just got out of prisons, say and come on,

878
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: we'll go for a drink, the very thing that put

879
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: them in prison. Do you have any people from your

880
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: past or the reach out come out we're playing this,

881
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: or have you consciously distanced yourself from that lifestyle so

882
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: the temptations not there.

883
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 2: So the first thing I did when I went to rehab,

884
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 2: before I even came out, was controlled. I deleted my life.

885
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: I changed my number, I deleted my I didn't just

886
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 2: delete all the numbers. I went into my iCloud account

887
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 2: and deleted my whole life and my past. I knew

888
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: that anybody of any importance that needed to find me

889
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: or wanted to find me would know where to find me,

890
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 2: and if they didn't, then they didn't need to be

891
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 2: in my life. And that was I needed that. As

892
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 2: I said, I couldn't trust myself. So you know, six

893
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 2: months in, had somebody from the past it oh, let's

894
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 2: even just catch up. Let's catch up for a coffee,

895
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: I would be, Oh, that sounds like a lovely idea.

896
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 2: In the next minute, next minute, you know, I'm backing

897
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: Shepherd and doing whatever. So that was one of the

898
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 2: most important parts of moving forward, was leaving the past behind.

899
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that is a big, big step. Do

900
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: you have any ongoing programs like Narcotics Anonymous or any

901
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: of that you participate in those programs?

902
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 2: Absolutely? So. Narcotics Anonymous played a massive part in keeping

903
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 2: me clean, and I think big. I think the other

904
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 2: part recovery of any sort, whether that be drugs, alcohol,

905
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 2: mental health, depression, whatever it might be. I think everybody

906
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: needs community, and you know, NA was what worked for me.

907
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: But I just needed to have people that weren't my mum,

908
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 2: my dad, or my brother or somebody like that that

909
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 2: felt it was their responsibility to keep me safe. And

910
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 2: I just it was about having people around me that

911
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 2: understood the way that my brain worked and why, and

912
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 2: we could talk about things and with no judgment and

913
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 2: it was safe. And I'm a massive advocate for any

914
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 2: of the a's, AA, G, A s, all of the a's,

915
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 2: because it's just good to have people that understand.

916
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: And could probably not just understand and watch out for

917
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: warning signs if they got your back as well, because

918
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: you're very like if you got any form of addiction,

919
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: you become very cunning in covering things up.

920
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 2: To it's fool yourself. Well, you know, you can fool yourself.

921
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 2: You can trick yourself into thinking you're fine and all

922
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 2: of a sudden you're not. So it's having people that

923
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 2: do know what to look out for.

924
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: You know.

925
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 2: If my friends haven't heard from me, and most of

926
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:56,959
Speaker 2: the time these days it's because I have two kids

927
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 2: and I just forget what day it is. But if

928
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 2: they haven't heard from me in a while, they'll bring

929
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: in and say, hey, what you do what you're doing,

930
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 2: or they'll know that I'm going in for a hit replacement.

931
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 2: And nobody else thought of that, that hiccup turning up.

932
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: But you know, they turn up at the hospital and

933
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 2: they go, how many of those pills you had today?

934
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

935
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, you've got good people around you. Yeah, you've

936
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: cut your old life off, You've cleaned yourself up, and

937
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 1: you're no longer the pop star, the musician, you no

938
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: longer the ice addict. You walk out. What do you

939
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: do with your life from there? How did you rebuild everything?

940
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: How did you find purpose? How did you find direction?

941
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 2: Really slowly? And I believe that's been the key. I

942
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 2: didn't know who I was Gary, You know, I didn't

943
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 2: know what I liked. I didn't know how to get

944
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: a job. I didn't know how to pay bills. I

945
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 2: didn't really know how to do anything. I knew how

946
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 2: to sing songs, and I knew how to take drugs.

947
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 2: So I after I left that six week rehab, I

948
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 2: then went into another program for about eighty months to

949
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: two years, and it was called a sober living house,

950
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 2: and it was more of a there was freedom involved

951
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,240
Speaker 2: in it, like I could go out the front door.

952
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 2: It was the place that I mentioned earlier that I'd

953
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 2: been to. I went back into there, and I really

954
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 2: slowly but surely learned how to trust myself, how to

955
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 2: trust my thinking. I didn't have a phone for a

956
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 2: long time, and then when I did get a phone,

957
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 2: I got one of those like old burner phones, flip phones,

958
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 2: without the Internet and without social media. And I just

959
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 2: slowly added stuff into my life and went out and

960
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: tested it and went, yep, that's I'm okay with that,

961
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 2: you know. And then I went and got a job,

962
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: like just a job. I went and got my traffic

963
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 2: traffic control ticket. And you know, for so many years

964
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 2: I thought self esteem was wrapped up in the way

965
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 2: that I looked and the clothes that I wore, or

966
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: the cars that I drove, or the money in my bank.

967
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 2: And you know, I learned that self esteem belongs in

968
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 2: none of those places. It's all about doing esteemable acts

969
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 2: and getting a job and turning up on time, clean

970
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 2: and responsible and doing a job and going home. And

971
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 2: it was just little not lying to people or turning

972
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 2: up when I said I was going to turn up.

973
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 2: All of this, these little one percent has just started

974
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: to rebuild this life, and you know, I worked out

975
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 2: what my morals and values were, and you know, I

976
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 2: just slowly built a life and music was certainly not

977
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 2: a part of that. In my mind, I didn't think

978
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 2: it would be. I thought that I was done with music.

979
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 2: And then I realized that I love music and I

980
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: now do music in a way that fills my cup

981
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,280
Speaker 2: as opposed to chasing unicorns as.

982
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 1: Well, that makes sense, and just getting that being through

983
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 1: the path that you've been through, and especially the low

984
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: part of your life, how rewarding it is. Just been

985
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:43,439
Speaker 1: a citizen again.

986
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 2: And the first day I went to work, you know,

987
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 2: the first time I got paid, the first after my

988
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 2: first week of work, and I got up and I

989
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 2: was going to work, I had my lunch, I turned

990
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 2: up on time. Made me feel better than anything. It

991
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 2: just I felt proud to myself and I felt like

992
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 2: I was a person in the world. And I can't

993
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: that nothing will beat that feeling the first time that

994
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 2: I was a responsible human in the world. I'll never

995
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 2: forget how that felt.

996
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and all the pieces start to come together again.

997
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: I've seen people whose lives were off the track and

998
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 1: they talk about it just feels good just being being

999
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 1: a normal person. And I'm not chasing whatever I was

1000
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: chasing before.

1001
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: No, it was a really pivotal moment.

1002
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: What about love? Did you find love?

1003
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 2: Love?

1004
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: I did?

1005
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 2: I did, and I do. You know, part of my

1006
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 2: recovery was no men or because you know, I sickness

1007
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:40,919
Speaker 2: only attracts sickness. You know, I don't think you can

1008
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 2: find a healthy relationship when you're crazy anyway. So I

1009
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 2: made a rule that I wasn't going to do any

1010
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 2: dating or go near any men for a while. So

1011
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 2: I did just that, and it took me a couple

1012
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 2: of years, and you know, I found a man and

1013
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 2: we've been together nearly, you know, over six years now,

1014
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 2: you know, I mean it's it's very which is great.

1015
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 2: It's very vanilla compared to anything I've ever been. If

1016
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 2: was very calm, it's not toxic, it's not bombs going

1017
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 2: off all through. It's very safe and it's wonderful. And

1018
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 2: from that, you know, I now have two little babies,

1019
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 2: which is something I never thought that i'd ever do.

1020
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you've got your you've got your hands full

1021
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,959
Speaker 1: there and it's nice that you're in the found found

1022
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: the right relationship and two kids, looking at the lessons

1023
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: that you've learned in life, what messaging or how would

1024
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: you try and steer your kids to let's not go

1025
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: down the path. Mum went all the dangers of going

1026
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 1: down that path? What what? What are the things that

1027
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: you've learned?

1028
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 2: Look? I and and to be honest, having kids, that

1029
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 2: was my one reservation about having kids is like I

1030
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 2: was terrified that they'd have my bug. And someone said

1031
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 2: to me, you can't. You can't live life with that thought.

1032
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 2: And you know, it nearly stopped me. And you know,

1033
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 2: I guess if they ever find themselves down that path,

1034
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 2: and I'll know where to send them. But I also

1035
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 2: know that I can't stop them. But I think I

1036
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 2: think it comes before the problem starts, you know. I

1037
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 2: think it's about teaching them from little ones, you know,

1038
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 2: even now about self worth and not that my parents

1039
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: didn't parenting I think looks really different then from what

1040
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 2: it does now. It's a different, different world. And I

1041
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 2: think it's about teaching them that they are enough and

1042
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 2: worth and building trust and knowing that you know, and

1043
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 2: removing shame from our relationship. And again not that my

1044
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 2: parents ever made me feel that way, it was just

1045
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 2: different you know that they can come to me with anything,

1046
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 2: and I think it's I think that's where it all starts,

1047
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 2: is you know, supporting them from when they're little as

1048
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 2: opposed to dealing with the issue if it comes up.

1049
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, well I'm sure you've got your hands full.

1050
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: How old are the kids now?

1051
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 2: I've got a six month old and a two and

1052
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 2: a half year old.

1053
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: Did you see you in ten years? Good luck?

1054
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 2: I feel like I need it.

1055
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, well that's going to keep you occupied. You're

1056
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:12,919
Speaker 1: doing the podcast as well.

1057
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I after it all happened, I guess people

1058
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: always wondered. People remained interested in my story, which I

1059
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:22,959
Speaker 2: was always People wanted to know where I went because

1060
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 2: the last thing they saw I was going to jail

1061
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 2: for fifteen years, and then I was gone for a

1062
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 2: long time. So after many years and a few news

1063
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 2: people wanted me to come on and share my story,

1064
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 2: and I said, nah, it doesn't feel right. So I

1065
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 2: went and did a podcast and told the story in

1066
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 2: a lot of depth and a lot of detail, and

1067
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 2: the response from that was really surprising, and so I

1068
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 2: decided to carry on. And so I've got a podcast

1069
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 2: called why Do I Feel this way, and it's just

1070
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 2: sharing stories of people from all different walks of life

1071
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 2: that have faced different types of adversity and found better

1072
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 2: ways to do life than they did yesterday. And it's

1073
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 2: just something I'm really proud.

1074
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: Of, so you should be. And I think your story

1075
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: that you tell there's so many lessons to be learned

1076
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 1: in that. I think it's interesting, like we understand where

1077
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: people's lives are off track right from the start and think, Okay,

1078
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 1: well that's not going to happen to me because I've

1079
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 1: got the support round. But yeah, we make choices in

1080
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 1: life that can point you in the wrong direction. But

1081
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: I think the most amazing thing is you said, you

1082
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:27,320
Speaker 1: know people wrape you off when yeah, you've been arrested

1083
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: and looking like or possibility of serving fifteen years. I

1084
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 1: remember that when it was hitting the media and I'm

1085
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: just probably looking at through it at the time with

1086
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: the cops lens think of course, she's fucked like that.

1087
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 1: She's not coming back from that, like you got the

1088
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: wake up call for the first arrest and then still

1089
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: doing it. But it just shows you can turn your

1090
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: life around. I think it's an important message.

1091
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 2: I think it's the most important message is. It doesn't matter.

1092
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 2: And I'm not the worst case going around either. Like

1093
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 2: I've met people in my recovery that have been further

1094
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:02,919
Speaker 2: down the rabbit hole, even if you think there isn't

1095
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 2: further down, there is than I was. And they live

1096
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 2: beautiful lives to say, beautiful, full, rich lives, free from

1097
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 2: all of that chaos. And the message in it for

1098
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 2: me is it a It can happen to anyone like,

1099
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 2: so just don't beat that.

1100
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: I think that's an important thing to get across.

1101
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyone can find themselves where I did. You know,

1102
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 2: as I said from the beginning, this shit doesn't discriminate.

1103
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 2: But b it doesn't matter how far down you go,

1104
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 2: as long as you've still got two feet on the ground.

1105
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 2: I promise you can do it. It's not easy. It's

1106
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,280
Speaker 2: pretty simple, but it's not easy, but it's it's doable,

1107
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 2: and a life beyond your wildest dreams is waiting for

1108
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 2: you if you if you just take the first step.

1109
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you found I get the sense there's a

1110
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 1: peacefulness about you. You look at peace and the way

1111
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: you're talking and talking about your life. Now there's something

1112
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: cool about that too, isn't there? Like you know you

1113
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: sound like you were chasing chaos. But sometimes calmness in life.

1114
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:00,919
Speaker 1: Life is not too bad.

1115
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 2: I love calm, I love quiet. It's you know, I'm

1116
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 2: happy for that. Life is pretty simple for me these days.

1117
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 2: And you know, I have starting to go back to work.

1118
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 2: As I said, I'm doing music and I go I

1119
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: like to do, you know, speaking about this stuff where

1120
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 2: I can, because I find that I have, you know,

1121
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 2: a unique position that you know, it was a pretty

1122
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 2: public situation and people, you know, I can use my story.

1123
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 2: It doesn't all have to be for nothing. It could

1124
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 2: be for something, so you know, I do that. But

1125
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 2: for the most part, my life's pretty peaceful. I'm peaceful,

1126
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 2: as you said, and I think, you know, yes, I

1127
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 2: have all the external stuff back in life. I've got

1128
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 2: cars and I don't have to rob people anymore, and

1129
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 2: all that stuff, you know. I you know, I've got

1130
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 2: money in the bank and houses and beautiful children and

1131
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,879
Speaker 2: all that stuff. But the biggest gift I got from

1132
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 2: the work that I did is my internal world. I

1133
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 2: don't wake up with that impending doom anymore. I don't

1134
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:54,879
Speaker 2: wake up hating myself. I don't I don't resent everybody

1135
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 2: and have I'm not riddled with anger and all of

1136
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,240
Speaker 2: that shit that I carried around for all those years.

1137
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 2: Life is just life, and sometimes it's hard. Life throws

1138
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 2: donuts at you sometimes, but you know, I know that

1139
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 2: all of that shit passes. Nothing's permanent good nor bad.

1140
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 2: And I'll be okay as long as I don't use drink.

1141
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 2: You use drugs and drink alcohol.

1142
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 1: Well, Kate, we'll wrap it up at this point, but

1143
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 1: I just want to thank you for coming on the

1144
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:23,479
Speaker 1: coming on the podcast, sharing a deeply personal story, and yeah,

1145
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 1: the value that people listening to this will get from

1146
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,919
Speaker 1: hearing your story, I think it's quite inspirational, and yeah,

1147
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 1: it's it just shows that you can find find your

1148
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: way out of the darkest hole you can.

1149
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, and thank you

1150
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 2: for listening.

1151
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: Me to listening, or to the audience to listen.

1152
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 2: Or anybody you, anybody listening. I hope it's a lot

1153
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 2: to hear.

1154
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: I hope there's more people listening just you and me.

1155
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: But even if there's not, I've enjoyed the enjoyed the chat.

1156
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: So thanks so much and all the best for the future,

1157
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: and good luck with the two kids. They're tough ages,

1158
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: Thank you, cheers

1159
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 2: Sent nineteen n