WEBVTT - Paul Murray Live | 5 October 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:03.880 This is Paul Murray Live. 0:00:03.900 --> 0:00:08.650 Paul Murray Live. Thank you, Shari. Kayla Bond filling in 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.080 for Paul in the man cave for the next two weeks. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.640 Here's what's coming up tonight. Jim Penman, that's the Jim's 0:00:13.700 --> 0:00:17.080 mowing man, he reckons Australians aren't having children because we're 0:00:17.100 --> 0:00:19.680 getting too much dopamine elsewhere. I'll tell you a little 0:00:19.700 --> 0:00:21.990 bit more about that later. Plenty to talk about with 0:00:22.050 --> 0:00:24.530 Sam Birrell and Nick Rees on the panel tonight. Ben 0:00:24.610 --> 0:00:27.190 Carroll says he wouldn't do a deal with the Greens 0:00:27.230 --> 0:00:31.110 to form government in Victoria. And Chris Bowen's pre-cop cop 0:00:31.290 --> 0:00:35.240 is underway. I'll talk to Shadow Energy Minister... Dan Tehan 0:00:35.460 --> 0:00:38.979 later on. But while I'm mentioning COP, we've seen a 0:00:38.979 --> 0:00:40.930 little bit of vision out of this thing tonight. Now, 0:00:41.210 --> 0:00:44.590 keep in mind that we're doing this thing in Fiji 0:00:44.650 --> 0:00:47.470 and we're paying tens of millions of dollars for it. 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:53.300 So far, we've spent upwards of $ 20 million, I think 0:00:53.300 --> 0:00:56.620 $ 6 million we spent on hotel rooms, that they told 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:58.720 us that's fine, we'll recoup that from the people who 0:00:58.740 --> 0:01:01.480 then eventually use those hotel rooms, but it's a bit 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:03.940 of a problem if no-one actually turns up, and they 0:01:03.980 --> 0:01:06.580 do seem to be a little light on numbers. But 0:01:06.670 --> 0:01:10.850 is it any surprise when even the guy who organised 0:01:10.970 --> 0:01:14.850 all of this, Chris Bowen, the climate change minister, not 0:01:14.930 --> 0:01:16.030 even he wants to be there? 0:01:17.770 --> 0:01:21.300 To the price of food on the tables in places 0:01:21.340 --> 0:01:24.720 where many may never have heard of Fiji. 0:01:26.060 --> 0:01:29.100 I mean, he is dozing off. Have a look at him. 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.830 We did all of this. We've been paying for all 0:01:31.850 --> 0:01:34.650 of this. He organised all of this as a vanity 0:01:34.709 --> 0:01:37.509 project because, of course, we didn't get to have the 0:01:37.569 --> 0:01:40.890 real cop that went to Turkey, even though we were 0:01:40.940 --> 0:01:44.350 told by Chris Bowen when he went overseas a year 0:01:44.390 --> 0:01:46.330 or two ago to try and stitch this thing up 0:01:46.410 --> 0:01:49.780 that we had the deal in the bag. No. Turkey 0:01:49.820 --> 0:01:52.340 got the real cop that would have been held in Adelaide. 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.580 So we ended up with this thing in Fiji so 0:01:55.620 --> 0:02:00.190 that Chris Bowen could be the president of negotiations, whatever that. 0:02:00.070 --> 0:02:01.930 Is, and he's asleep. 0:02:02.410 --> 0:02:07.380 I mean... Honestly, the whole thing is just pathetic. We've 0:02:07.420 --> 0:02:10.120 done all of this for you, mate, and you don't 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:12.500 look like you want to be there. Anyway, I thought 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:16.019 that was exceedingly funny. And, of course, I talk about 0:02:16.060 --> 0:02:18.660 the cost of it. He doesn't want to own up 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:20.299 to the cost of all of this. 0:02:21.580 --> 0:02:23.620 Well, certainly it is a good spend of Australia's taxpayers' money. 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.700 This is our most important diplomatic engagement in the Pacific, 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.200 certainly this term, probably for longer than this term. It's 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.730 out of the $ 147 million allocation in the budget for 0:02:33.850 --> 0:02:35.890 increased Pacific engagement on climate issues. 0:02:35.930 --> 0:02:36.570 That's a good thing. 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:39.919 The reports of around $ 20 million. 0:02:39.900 --> 0:02:44.180 Are in the ballpark. They're in the ballpark? Why don't 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:46.739 you just tell us what you're spending? I mean, he 0:02:46.780 --> 0:02:51.080 committed another $ 7 million or thereabouts for renewable projects in 0:02:51.100 --> 0:02:54.100 the Pacific today. What are we actually getting out of this? 0:02:54.870 --> 0:02:57.810 I mean, can you tell me one concrete thing that 0:02:57.830 --> 0:02:59.700 we're getting out of it? I know that We need 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.440 to do diplomacy in the Pacific because we're worried about 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:06.280 China and all this sort of stuff. But really, putting 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.320 on a pre-cop conference, the cop you have when you 0:03:09.370 --> 0:03:12.690 can't have a cop, it is a cop-out in Fiji 0:03:13.110 --> 0:03:17.330 to self-aggrandise. Why? What are we getting out of it? 0:03:17.310 --> 0:03:20.970 $ 20 million, I know, in government terms, is small biggies. 0:03:21.590 --> 0:03:24.560 They drop that sort of money every day. But in 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:29.340 a cost-of-living crisis... interest rates going up, you're feeling the pinch. 0:03:29.860 --> 0:03:31.640 There's a lot that can be done with $ 20 million. 0:03:33.780 --> 0:03:36.040 But in government land, you go and blow it on 0:03:36.100 --> 0:03:39.520 things like that and letting Chris Bowen travel overseas all 0:03:39.580 --> 0:03:43.080 over the shop as the cop president of negotiations. Again, 0:03:43.180 --> 0:03:46.410 I still don't know what that actually means. And you 0:03:46.430 --> 0:03:48.230 look at that money and you go, well, surely you 0:03:48.250 --> 0:03:51.650 get some important people in the room to have a chat. Well, no, 0:03:52.330 --> 0:03:56.350 only two leaders from outside the Pacific have turned up 0:03:56.410 --> 0:03:58.750 to this thing. But Mr Bowen says, well, we didn't 0:03:58.790 --> 0:03:59.600 expect any different. 0:04:01.390 --> 0:04:04.450 Have you had any last-minute confirmation of attendance from world 0:04:04.490 --> 0:04:08.150 leaders for the summit? Yeah, and Sally, I think it's 0:04:08.190 --> 0:04:12.220 important to note that pre-cop is normally a pretty pedestrian affair. 0:04:12.250 --> 0:04:15.180 World leaders do not normally attend pre-cop at all. Prime 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.620 Ministers and Presidents normally do not come to pre-cop. We 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:19.580 have some coming. 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:25.200 Oh, yeah, Sally. Goodness sakes. If it's a pedestrian event, 0:04:25.300 --> 0:04:30.200 why are we paying $ 20 million for it? As I say, 0:04:30.230 --> 0:04:34.489 the whole thing was a vanity project for the climate 0:04:34.529 --> 0:04:39.150 change minister, Chris Bowen. $ 20 million, at least, up the 0:04:39.170 --> 0:04:42.450 wall on it. But it's a really pedestrian event. It 0:04:42.510 --> 0:04:47.020 is just all so exceedingly pointless. And not even he 0:04:47.700 --> 0:04:50.970 looks like he wants to be there. Now, we're often 0:04:51.029 --> 0:04:53.810 told that education is one of our biggest exports. You know, 0:04:53.830 --> 0:04:57.370 international students are so important to this country. And, of course, 0:04:57.510 --> 0:04:59.650 it is one of our biggest exports, not as a 0:05:00.070 --> 0:05:04.030 physical thing, but as something that we produce in this country, 0:05:04.050 --> 0:05:06.350 something that we give to the rest of the world. 0:05:06.390 --> 0:05:09.750 That is education. But the importance of that has clearly 0:05:09.770 --> 0:05:13.860 become so overstated that it is now affecting the quality 0:05:14.380 --> 0:05:16.820 of what is produced in universities. Have a listen to this. 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.260 This is a story... in the News Corp papers today 0:05:20.420 --> 0:05:25.020 about just how much universities have changed because of international students. 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:28.960 It says, quote, An Adelaide mother said she was horrified 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.670 after her daughter had a catch-up class in the fourth 0:05:31.730 --> 0:05:35.510 year of her undergraduate medical degree and reported that almost 0:05:35.710 --> 0:05:39.669 all the students in attendance were international. The tutor, she 0:05:39.710 --> 0:05:43.950 was told, spoke Mandarin throughout. It comes as new data 0:05:43.970 --> 0:05:46.980 reveals international students now make up almost one in three 0:05:47.020 --> 0:05:50.750 tertiary students in Australia... most of them from China, India 0:05:50.830 --> 0:05:54.530 and Nepal. Australia's intake is almost triple the average for 0:05:54.570 --> 0:05:58.690 comparably wealthy nations. And this is the mother being quoted here. 0:05:59.330 --> 0:06:01.820 I don't know what a reasonable percentage of international students 0:06:01.860 --> 0:06:04.260 would be, but if we have a number that is 0:06:04.300 --> 0:06:07.880 influencing teaching, then it's too many, said the mother of 0:06:07.900 --> 0:06:11.160 the student. Our domestic students, our kids, should not be 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:15.720 compromised by other students. I mean, that is ridiculous. How 0:06:15.779 --> 0:06:19.830 can we have university classes, lectures... being taught in this 0:06:19.930 --> 0:06:24.520 country to Australian students in Mandarin because so many of 0:06:24.580 --> 0:06:28.400 the students in the classroom are international. I mean, there's 0:06:28.460 --> 0:06:31.380 nothing wrong with having foreign students. It is, of course, 0:06:31.420 --> 0:06:34.260 a compliment to Australia that all of these people want 0:06:34.300 --> 0:06:37.429 to come from overseas to get an education in our country. 0:06:37.450 --> 0:06:40.469 It means that we're giving a good education and they're 0:06:40.490 --> 0:06:42.370 getting some of the best in the world in Australia. 0:06:42.710 --> 0:06:45.190 That's great. But we also have to think about the 0:06:45.250 --> 0:06:48.770 kids in Australia... who want to go to university. They 0:06:48.850 --> 0:06:53.070 also deserve to get a good education. But clearly, the 0:06:53.110 --> 0:06:57.029 quality is slipping, and universities are even being lenient with students, 0:06:57.110 --> 0:07:00.530 particularly international students, because, of course, they want to get 0:07:00.630 --> 0:07:03.100 their money. This is also from that article in the 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.659 News Corp papers today. One professor who asked to remain 0:07:06.779 --> 0:07:10.860 anonymous for fear of retribution said that while international education 0:07:10.900 --> 0:07:14.700 served a valuable form of soft power, high enrolment had 0:07:14.780 --> 0:07:21.660 compromised academic integrity... surrounding deferred exams. He's then quoted, these 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:26.060 occur when students miss a scheduled proctored exam because of illness. 0:07:26.100 --> 0:07:28.730 Students who are sick on their exam day are being 0:07:28.790 --> 0:07:33.530 allowed to sit an inadequately invigilated deferred exam in their 0:07:33.590 --> 0:07:35.510 home country. For those who are not aware of the 0:07:35.570 --> 0:07:40.990 word invigilated, it means proper oversight. To be clear, local 0:07:41.030 --> 0:07:45.290 students are also sitting inadequately invigilated deferred exams in The 0:07:45.330 --> 0:07:47.790 main reason they are not being forced to attend campus 0:07:47.830 --> 0:07:50.990 for a proper exam is that the university is reluctant 0:07:51.030 --> 0:07:54.160 to have such rules when there are lots of students overseas. 0:07:55.100 --> 0:07:59.840 So we have students studying at Australian universities, being able 0:07:59.860 --> 0:08:02.460 to take exams in their home countries, and they're not 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:06.370 properly supervised because they call in sick on the day 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:10.010 of an exam. And because of that, the unis are 0:08:10.050 --> 0:08:12.790 too scared to make the Australian students sit their proper 0:08:12.830 --> 0:08:15.500 exams too. Because of course they can't be seen to 0:08:15.540 --> 0:08:18.440 have a double standard. I mean this is clearly a 0:08:18.500 --> 0:08:21.260 system that is open to being rorted, that is open 0:08:21.300 --> 0:08:25.310 to being abused, cheating, all sorts. And yet nothing seems 0:08:25.350 --> 0:08:28.230 to be done about it because, oh well, education is 0:08:28.290 --> 0:08:32.090 one of our biggest exports. The real problem is that 0:08:32.190 --> 0:08:35.970 universities have lost sight of their actual purpose. They've become 0:08:36.010 --> 0:08:39.710 money-making machines. They can get an international student in, paying 0:08:39.750 --> 0:08:43.240 full-toed odds. You know, they do in many cases. It 0:08:43.270 --> 0:08:47.780 would seem, prefer to have them over a local student 0:08:48.300 --> 0:08:51.280 because it makes them cash money. Of course, every business, 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:53.400 every operation has to make money in order to do 0:08:53.460 --> 0:08:56.680 what it does. But let's not forget that universities receive 0:08:56.820 --> 0:09:00.900 huge amounts of public funding. That is funding from the taxpayers. 0:09:00.940 --> 0:09:03.900 It's not government money, it's your money. It's my money 0:09:04.370 --> 0:09:07.280 that's being given to these universities. And we do that 0:09:07.580 --> 0:09:09.459 because we want people in this country to get a 0:09:09.460 --> 0:09:11.880 good education and we want this country to be a 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.400 better place. We want to train up the doctors and 0:09:14.420 --> 0:09:17.520 the lawyers and whatever else for the future of this country. 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.500 But the balance is out of whack now. The universities 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:26.180 care far too much about enriching themselves rather than enriching 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.480 the country and the students who go there. I mean, 0:09:29.500 --> 0:09:31.980 just think about it for a moment. You have young 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:36.260 Australians going to universities and reporting that the classes are 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:40.470 being taught in Mandarin. I mean, that's clearly not what 0:09:40.650 --> 0:09:43.330 is best for the country. It's not about what's best 0:09:43.370 --> 0:09:45.949 for the country. It's about what's best for the university. 0:09:46.830 --> 0:09:49.870 And that's not the point of a university existing. And 0:09:49.890 --> 0:09:52.600 if that's how universities are going to operate, then they 0:09:52.660 --> 0:09:55.420 don't deserve to be funded in the way that they are. 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:59.380 I mean, they should be there to make this country better. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.360 not to make another country better. And that's not to 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.560 say that we shouldn't take international students, but it is 0:10:05.620 --> 0:10:09.200 to say that the first priority of an Australian university 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:14.380 should be to improve Australia. Between 2015 and 2024, on 0:10:14.460 --> 0:10:18.340 average across the OECD, the share of international students rose 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:22.630 by four percentage points. In Australia, it rose by 16 0:10:22.630 --> 0:10:26.060 percentage points. The only other country with a higher proportion 0:10:26.100 --> 0:10:29.900 of international students relative to the total student population in 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:34.560 the world is Luxembourg. Australia has the second highest concentration 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:38.640 of international students in the world. And that's not necessarily 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.569 in and of itself a bad thing. But it certainly 0:10:41.610 --> 0:10:43.910 is a bad thing when that starts to affect the 0:10:44.030 --> 0:10:47.849 quality of a university's output and the quality of education 0:10:48.110 --> 0:10:52.540 that Australian students receive. The rot, I think, really started 0:10:53.220 --> 0:10:56.540 under the Gillard government when they uncapped university enrolments. They 0:10:56.580 --> 0:10:59.660 basically said, come one, come all, everyone should go to university. 0:11:00.330 --> 0:11:04.910 And it's made university almost an extension of someone's school education. 0:11:05.470 --> 0:11:08.830 Going into uni is now for many students not just 0:11:08.870 --> 0:11:13.150 an option, but almost an expectation. It's kind of suggested 0:11:13.210 --> 0:11:16.030 in school that you ought to go to university after 0:11:16.050 --> 0:11:18.660 you finish school. But the reality is there are a 0:11:18.660 --> 0:11:21.550 lot of kids who aren't suited to university and shouldn't 0:11:21.590 --> 0:11:23.710 be going to university. They should be going off learning 0:11:23.730 --> 0:11:26.449 a trade or doing something practical. But many of them 0:11:26.550 --> 0:11:28.430 feel like they have to go to university or that 0:11:28.450 --> 0:11:31.229 they should go to university, and they end up dropping 0:11:31.330 --> 0:11:34.280 out because they don't really want to be there. Not 0:11:34.300 --> 0:11:37.080 that the university cares, because they get the money anyway. 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.100 If you enrol, you're there for at least a year. 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:43.120 The university gets its funding, and that really would seem 0:11:43.460 --> 0:11:47.080 to be all they care about. We need... to fix this, 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.900 and we need to fix it now, because the universities 0:11:49.940 --> 0:11:52.120 are greedy enough as it is, and if we keep 0:11:52.179 --> 0:11:55.489 letting them get away with this, well, they'll clearly only 0:11:55.550 --> 0:11:59.569 become greedier. And the universities would be hoping that we 0:11:59.630 --> 0:12:02.050 keep the tap of international students on, because we're not 0:12:02.110 --> 0:12:05.370 having babies. I mean, the royal we, of course. You 0:12:05.410 --> 0:12:07.910 and I are not having babies, though who knows? The 0:12:07.950 --> 0:12:10.709 night is young. But we have a big problem with 0:12:10.730 --> 0:12:13.200 the birth rate. Now, to be fair, it isn't new. 0:12:13.420 --> 0:12:16.170 We haven't achieved the replacement rate that is expected the 0:12:16.210 --> 0:12:18.589 number of children that women need to have in order 0:12:18.610 --> 0:12:21.569 for the population to replace itself for about 40 years 0:12:21.630 --> 0:12:24.890 in this country. But it is now at historic lows, 0:12:24.980 --> 0:12:26.700 which is part of the reason, of course, that we're 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.860 so reliant on migration. If we're not producing people here, 0:12:30.900 --> 0:12:33.099 then we get them from somewhere else. And there are 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.680 all sorts of implications for that. I mean, if someone 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:37.580 is born here, let's say he goes off to work 0:12:37.620 --> 0:12:40.210 at 14 and spends most, if not all, of his 0:12:40.260 --> 0:12:43.970 working life working in Australia... it means that he spends 0:12:44.010 --> 0:12:46.660 his whole working life contributing to the tax pot of 0:12:46.700 --> 0:12:49.319 this country, and that's the tax pot from which all 0:12:49.340 --> 0:12:51.560 the services and the welfare and the health care is paid. 0:12:52.100 --> 0:12:53.700 So when the kid who was born here and works 0:12:53.740 --> 0:12:55.719 here his whole life gets to old age and he 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.710 needs to use health services more or draws on a pension, 0:12:59.309 --> 0:13:01.810 he's spent his whole working life contributing tax to the 0:13:01.850 --> 0:13:04.930 pot from which that is paid. Whereas if someone moves 0:13:04.950 --> 0:13:07.070 to this country when they're 40 and then they retire 0:13:07.090 --> 0:13:10.220 at 67 or whatever it might be, when they need 0:13:10.250 --> 0:13:12.980 health care and if they need a pension... they have 0:13:13.010 --> 0:13:16.900 spent less time contributing into that pot from which that comes. 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.680 It's entirely likely that a migrant costs the country more 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.060 in the long run because they have contributed less in 0:13:23.100 --> 0:13:26.900 tax to this country over their lifetime. And this isn't 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.650 just a problem in Australia. It's a problem across the 0:13:29.690 --> 0:13:32.069 Western world. It's a problem across a lot of Asia. 0:13:32.670 --> 0:13:34.890 Most of the countries with a positive birth rate, that 0:13:34.950 --> 0:13:39.110 is natural population growth without the need for migration, are 0:13:39.150 --> 0:13:42.199 in sub-Saharan Africa and some countries in the Middle East. 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.360 So these are, by and large, countries where conditions aren't 0:13:45.460 --> 0:13:47.660 great and there's not a lot of birth control, and 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:52.400 also countries where it's basically, literally, populate or perish. Well, 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.300 Jim Penman reckons he has a solution. He is Jim 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.760 of Jim's Mowing and all the other Jim franchises. He's 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.260 just written a book on his theory as to why 0:14:01.300 --> 0:14:03.230 the birth rate is so low. Take a look. 0:14:04.190 --> 0:14:07.410 He's built an empire out of mowing lawns. Now Jim 0:14:07.450 --> 0:14:10.970 Penman wants to reverse Australia's falling birth rate. 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.280 The brain becomes adjusted. It becomes adjusted to this surge 0:14:15.300 --> 0:14:17.460 of dopamine and it becomes less sensitive. 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.260 In his new book, the businessman sells his theory that 0:14:21.300 --> 0:14:25.720 we're having fewer children because we're getting much more dopamine 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:29.480 than we need. He says social media, junk food, alcohol, 0:14:29.540 --> 0:14:33.140 pornography and sex is overstimulating Aussie brains. 0:14:33.750 --> 0:14:39.180 Ordinary things of life like family, children, work, faith, community 0:14:39.220 --> 0:14:40.880 become less and less appealing. 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.220 Australia's fertility rate has fallen to just under one and 0:14:44.260 --> 0:14:47.700 a half children per woman, well below the replacement rate 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:48.320 of 2.1. 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:52.190 Now look, I thought alcohol and sex often led to babies. 0:14:53.140 --> 0:14:55.460 sexist sort of you know integral to the whole thing 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.600 now i'm not sure how much of his argument i 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:00.500 buy that it's about the fact that we have too 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.520 much dopamine effectively what he's saying is that there are 0:15:03.540 --> 0:15:06.120 all these other things in our lives that we can 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.920 do and so by comparison to that having children doesn't 0:15:09.970 --> 0:15:12.230 give us the high that it once did i'm not 0:15:12.310 --> 0:15:15.070 sure that is entirely right i mean ask anyone who 0:15:15.130 --> 0:15:17.290 has children they will tell you it's the best thing 0:15:17.330 --> 0:15:22.260 they've ever done There is a natural, innate, biological desire 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:24.920 built into us to have children. It's more or less 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.150 built into every species because we've evolved that way. If 0:15:28.190 --> 0:15:31.470 we don't procreate, we die as a species. And generally, 0:15:31.710 --> 0:15:34.310 we are designed to not let that happen. But I 0:15:34.330 --> 0:15:36.229 think there might be a kernel of truth in it 0:15:36.810 --> 0:15:39.330 because we are more distracted than we've ever been. We 0:15:39.380 --> 0:15:43.620 are busier than we've ever been. We're bombarded with more information. 0:15:44.290 --> 0:15:48.250 than we ever have been. Communication is constant. You don't 0:15:48.270 --> 0:15:51.240 have to wait for a letter or a telegram to arrive. 0:15:51.250 --> 0:15:53.360 You don't have to wait for the morning paper or 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.540 the afternoon paper. You just send an email or a 0:15:56.580 --> 0:15:58.660 text message or you pick up the phone or you 0:15:58.700 --> 0:16:01.260 pick up your smartphone and see what's going on in 0:16:01.300 --> 0:16:05.820 the world. Go on social media. Everything is instant. And 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.650 to some degree, that does lead to instant gratification, which 0:16:08.730 --> 0:16:12.760 may give some validity to Jim Penman's dopamine argument. I 0:16:12.790 --> 0:16:15.700 do worry that technology in the world has evolved much 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.420 faster than the structure of our brains has, and so 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.240 that maybe we're not fully equipped to live in the 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.540 world in which we now live. But as it relates 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:26.880 to having children, I think there are two big problems. 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.840 In order to have children, number one, you need connection. 0:16:31.300 --> 0:16:33.780 That is, you need to find someone to have children 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.520 with and someone that you want to have children with. 0:16:37.190 --> 0:16:40.470 And two, you need the right economic conditions in which 0:16:40.490 --> 0:16:43.070 to have children. And so maybe we should think about 0:16:43.170 --> 0:16:47.360 why across the Western world, where we are allegedly wealthy, 0:16:48.060 --> 0:16:52.360 we are having fewer children than ever. Firstly, on connection, 0:16:53.100 --> 0:16:56.000 we live in a world more connected than ever. Thank you. 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.330 Thanks to technology. I mean, you can talk to anyone 0:16:59.370 --> 0:17:02.430 in any part of the world at any time, and 0:17:02.470 --> 0:17:07.420 yet we're more disconnected than ever. An October 2022 survey 0:17:07.900 --> 0:17:10.679 of loneliness found that more than a third of Australian 0:17:10.820 --> 0:17:14.859 adults felt lonely in the week prior. Those aged 18 0:17:14.859 --> 0:17:19.000 to 24 reported the highest levels of loneliness. According to 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:25.160 the Black Dog Institute, depression among young Australian adults increased 72% 0:17:25.300 --> 0:17:30.770 in the 14 years to 2022. Something is very clearly wrong, 0:17:31.030 --> 0:17:33.510 despite all these ways we now have to connect with 0:17:33.550 --> 0:17:36.760 each other. we are less connected than we've ever been. 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.320 So that's a real problem. If people are feeling lonely, 0:17:40.859 --> 0:17:44.460 and particularly young people are feeling lonely, and people aren't meeting, 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:48.300 then they're not finding the opportunities to find a partner 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.060 with whom they would have children. And of course, there's 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:53.820 an app for everything now. You know, I want to 0:17:53.859 --> 0:17:55.740 find a partner, get on an app, swipe, swipe, swipe. 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.899 It's like a smorgasbord, right? And you might be messaging 0:17:59.900 --> 0:18:02.560 10 different people, and you're not really invested in anything. 0:18:03.180 --> 0:18:06.330 It's just not working. But even those who do find 0:18:06.369 --> 0:18:09.070 a partner with whom to have children, I think, struggle 0:18:09.109 --> 0:18:13.430 to justify having children today. And that is an economic question. 0:18:14.070 --> 0:18:16.190 This goes back to what I was talking about last 0:18:16.250 --> 0:18:20.070 night about single-income families. Having and raising children just used 0:18:20.130 --> 0:18:23.090 to be easier. You used to be able to do 0:18:23.130 --> 0:18:25.630 it with a parent at home, usually mum, just like 0:18:25.670 --> 0:18:30.090 my childhood, but now that's virtually impossible for most Australian families. 0:18:30.109 --> 0:18:32.830 A lot of young couples don't own their own home 0:18:33.190 --> 0:18:35.830 because they can't afford to. For a lot of people, 0:18:36.050 --> 0:18:38.669 the right conditions for saying, I feel like I'm in 0:18:38.690 --> 0:18:42.190 a good place to start a family, simply don't exist. 0:18:42.910 --> 0:18:46.250 People delay having families now, particularly because women are in 0:18:46.290 --> 0:18:49.150 the workforce. And don't take this to be me saying 0:18:49.190 --> 0:18:51.470 that women should not be in the workforce. But I 0:18:51.510 --> 0:18:53.810 think we also need to be upfront about the fact 0:18:54.090 --> 0:18:56.550 that women being in the workforce, to the extent that 0:18:56.590 --> 0:18:59.030 they are, and almost being expected to be in the 0:18:59.070 --> 0:19:01.800 workforce in a way that they weren't 50 years ago, 0:19:02.330 --> 0:19:04.810 has had an effect on the family unit and the 0:19:04.869 --> 0:19:08.250 desire for people to start families. And if that works 0:19:08.310 --> 0:19:10.790 for you, that's great. But I think there are a 0:19:10.790 --> 0:19:13.270 lot of people and a lot of couples who would 0:19:13.410 --> 0:19:16.120 love to have children, or maybe they have one child 0:19:16.420 --> 0:19:19.859 and they'd like to have more, but the economic circumstances 0:19:20.180 --> 0:19:23.550 and the circumstances of their lives prevent them from doing it. 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.290 And so it's great that we're a world-leading economy and 0:19:27.310 --> 0:19:30.210 we're all allegedly so wealthy, But in all of this 0:19:30.310 --> 0:19:32.689 economic growth, I think we've lost sight of things that 0:19:32.770 --> 0:19:36.500 really do matter to humanity. How can it be that 0:19:36.540 --> 0:19:39.560 we have all these advancements and yet when it comes 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:44.240 to the most basic biological desire to further your family line, 0:19:44.670 --> 0:19:48.609 we've made things harder? It's something that as the West 0:19:48.650 --> 0:19:51.120 we have to confront and we have to confront it fast. 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:53.919 Because if we don't do something about it, if we 0:19:53.940 --> 0:19:57.220 don't figure out what's going wrong, it will eventually be 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:01.720 the end of the West. Now apparently first class cabins 0:20:02.180 --> 0:20:04.609 are disappearing from international flights. And you might look at 0:20:04.630 --> 0:20:07.010 this story and say, ah, well, who cares? I can't 0:20:07.050 --> 0:20:09.270 afford to fly first class, so it doesn't matter. But 0:20:09.790 --> 0:20:11.870 I think it does actually matter. It's not so much 0:20:12.369 --> 0:20:15.409 just about the fact that first-class cabins are disappearing, but 0:20:15.450 --> 0:20:17.970 what it says about airlines in general and also just 0:20:18.490 --> 0:20:21.800 service more broadly in the way that we deal with businesses. 0:20:22.220 --> 0:20:25.300 This is via Robin Ironside, who's the aviation writer at 0:20:25.340 --> 0:20:30.379 The Australian. First-class cabins are rapidly becoming an endangered species 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.680 on aircraft as airlines instead opt for a front-row business 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:38.030 plus offering to keep passengers wanting a little bit extra happy. 0:20:38.590 --> 0:20:42.360 Air New Zealand, United Airlines, American Airlines and Oman Air 0:20:42.380 --> 0:20:45.600 are among those who have upgraded their first row with 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:50.320 more space, enhanced privacy and exclusive amenities. Qantas appears to 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.520 be following suit with its design for a new internationally 0:20:53.560 --> 0:21:00.690 configured A321XLRs arriving from 2028 featuring roomier first row seats 0:21:00.770 --> 0:21:03.770 than the rest of the business class cabin. And why 0:21:03.790 --> 0:21:06.710 are they doing this? Well, why do you think? Because 0:21:06.770 --> 0:21:10.139 it makes them more money. The article goes on..... and 0:21:10.180 --> 0:21:12.490 also require more cabin crew. That's all very expensive for airlines, 0:21:12.510 --> 0:21:13.370 Mr Trim said. 0:21:30.150 --> 0:21:32.820 At the same time, we've seen business class get better 0:21:32.859 --> 0:21:35.699 and better over the years with the sliding privacy doors 0:21:35.740 --> 0:21:38.360 and the lie-flat beds and aisle access for everyone. So 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:41.080 why would you bother with first class? The addition of 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:45.120 business plus seats also meant extra dollars for airlines able 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.500 to charge a premium on already high business class fares 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:50.739 for the privilege of sitting in the front row with 0:21:50.790 --> 0:21:54.179 added benefits. So what you do? is take a top-end 0:21:54.220 --> 0:21:56.619 product and then make a version of the product below 0:21:56.660 --> 0:21:59.159 it that's slightly better than it used to be, and 0:21:59.180 --> 0:22:01.139 then you try and sell that as the top-end product. 0:22:01.570 --> 0:22:03.570 And then, of course, you charge a premium for that 0:22:03.890 --> 0:22:06.330 slightly better product that isn't as good as the product 0:22:06.350 --> 0:22:08.649 that you used to have at the top end, and 0:22:08.690 --> 0:22:13.030 you make more money for delivering less. And as I say, 0:22:13.109 --> 0:22:15.640 you know, it may not bother most people because most 0:22:15.660 --> 0:22:17.420 people can't afford to fly first class. 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:18.220