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Speaker 1: This is Scam Awareness Week and one way of shutting

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Speaker 1: down scammers, the experts tell us, is to talk about

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Speaker 1: the scam attempts and hopefully not successors on the scammer's part,

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Speaker 1: but certainly the attempts that they have made against you.

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Speaker 1: Share the story is what it's all about. Professor Nigel

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Speaker 1: Fair is Professor of Cybersecurity, Monash University and joins me. Now, Nigel,

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Speaker 1: good morning, thank you for your time morning. That good idea,

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Speaker 1: So talk, let's talk more about the scams we're getting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's important that people when they see

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Speaker 2: something that they often they're not sure of who to

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Speaker 2: turn to or where they get advice. So if you've

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Speaker 2: got a trusted family member or a good neighbor or

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Speaker 2: something like that, you can say, look, you know, I

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Speaker 2: received this email that said this, or I got a

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Speaker 2: text message said that, or someone from a call center

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Speaker 2: wrang me up and said this is this is what

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Speaker 2: I did about it, And you get that verification because

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Speaker 2: that person that you talked to you might learn from it,

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Speaker 2: or they might have their own as where they've gone. Well,

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Speaker 2: actually the same thing happened to me and I just

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Speaker 2: hung up and it's seen a lot of people won't

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Speaker 2: to hang up on the scammers because it's a very

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Speaker 2: rude thing to do. You've just got to do it.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's important to validate your thinking, get

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Speaker 2: some new ideas from people that you know about how

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Speaker 2: to you're not going to defeat them, but how to

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Speaker 2: make sure you don't fall prey to them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the thing. And once you realize it's

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Speaker 1: a scam, sharing that story with as many people as

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Speaker 1: possible is the best thing you could do. Well.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, So you know, if you get a bogus investment

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Speaker 2: opportunity or it's a bogus utility company says, you know,

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Speaker 2: I can get you a better deal on your electricity, gas, water,

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Speaker 2: those sorts of things. And if you talk to someone

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Speaker 2: about mego and then they get that paint call I go, oh,

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Speaker 2: I remember I was just talking to my neighbor or

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Speaker 2: my cousin or my family member, whatever it might be,

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Speaker 2: and they're already sort of alert to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing. It's hard though. You talk about,

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Speaker 1: you know, investment scams, and when you get for instance,

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Speaker 1: on Facebook, David Shapearing or Twiggy Forest or you know,

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Speaker 1: all the other celebrities that are roped in, well they're

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Speaker 1: not roped in, but their images are used in fake

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Speaker 1: AI videos, so it purports to be them. It's their voice,

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Speaker 1: it's their image, The words match the lips moving and

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Speaker 1: telling you to invest in this and I thoroughly recommend

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Speaker 1: it and it's wonderful and away you go. And they've

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Speaker 1: been trying to get that off meta for a long

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Speaker 1: time and in fact, Twiggy Forest has got a lawsuit

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Speaker 1: going at the moment. It's hard to protect yourself when

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Speaker 1: you see people with a trusted persona encouraging you to invest.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, Matthew and the scammer used the same tool and

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Speaker 3: techniques that legitimate advertising users, which is if you stay

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Speaker 3: using a known and trusted source to you know, whether

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Speaker 3: it's selling you know, investing opportunities or cars or anything

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Speaker 3: in between it and how it works, so you get

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Speaker 3: that degree of trust and confidence. And then they get

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Speaker 3: to work and they have a playbook or going to

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Speaker 3: you know, the scammers do, whether it's they're bringing you

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Speaker 3: where they're texting, or it's a Facebook ad, they're very

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Speaker 3: adept at honing their marketing art. And with that it

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Speaker 3: gets harder and harder for people to actually recognize what's

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Speaker 3: legitimate and what isn't.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, I see your comments, Nigel. Two point seven billion

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Speaker 1: reported scam losses and you reckon that's one fifth of

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Speaker 1: actual losses in twenty twenty three. That is incredible. So

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Speaker 1: we're talking what ten twelve billion dollars?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's from all my research and surveying and everything.

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Speaker 3: It's about one fist of Some people said high. But

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Speaker 3: you know, and going back to the discussion with your

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Speaker 3: friend's family, et cetera. You know a lot of people

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Speaker 3: when they have been scammed, they're so embarrassed, and I

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Speaker 3: get it that they don't report it to the authorities

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Speaker 3: because they just don't want anyone to know. And that's

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Speaker 3: you know, And the other problem with the reporting side

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Speaker 3: is that lots and lots of people report to the

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Speaker 3: police and other authorities and nothing comes of it. So

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Speaker 3: it happens again they think, well, what's the point of

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Speaker 3: reporting when there's no resolution as the matter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. A friend of mine, I'm trying to think who

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Speaker 1: it was now, was telling me that they helped somebody

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Speaker 1: with a scam where the person the scammer was given

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Speaker 1: access to the computers. So I don't recall if it

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Speaker 1: was a relative now, but they put in a management password,

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Speaker 1: so for the person who had been sucked in to

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Speaker 1: give access to anyone else, they would need to ring

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Speaker 1: this third party who would then give them the password.

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Speaker 1: And sure enough, this person got a call from the

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Speaker 1: victim saying, oh, they've called back and they want to

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Speaker 1: return the money that they took, so can I have

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Speaker 1: the password? And he's saying, no, they're not going to

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Speaker 1: return the money, they're going to take more out you

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Speaker 1: do for this, so well, yeah, we need to be

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Speaker 1: protected from ourselves sometimes.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And you know that the biggest category is investment

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Speaker 3: scams of losses by country mild b thirds of the

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Speaker 3: reported losses and as people chasing quite frankly, very unrealistic

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Speaker 3: return for the presented to them. And that's the same thing.

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Speaker 3: We need to protect ourselves from ourselves. Sometimes it's you know,

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Speaker 3: if the bank's on the offering you know, two to

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Speaker 3: three percent, you're probably not going to find someone that's

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Speaker 3: offering your fifteen percent that's legitim Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's that's it, right, there, isn't it. That's

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Speaker 1: all you need to know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So we do need to be alert to the

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Speaker 3: common sense variant of this. But you know, as you

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Speaker 3: mentioned that, it's called what we call in the industry

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Speaker 3: remote access trojan, where they take over your computer with that.

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Speaker 3: It's a similar thing when they ring up and purport

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Speaker 3: to be from a bank and say, I just need

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Speaker 3: your three digit number on the back of your card

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Speaker 3: so I can reverse this scam for you. They've already

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Speaker 3: collected from it from a data breach all the other details.

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Speaker 3: All they needed is your CV the number on the

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Speaker 3: back and they can start transacting on your card. It's

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Speaker 3: they're very believable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And that's the thing. Your bank is never

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Speaker 1: going to ring you and ask you for details on

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Speaker 1: the card they sent you.

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Speaker 3: For a step and I will also never ask you

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Speaker 3: for your four digit pin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So bear that in mind. Don't trust anyone

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Speaker 1: that calls essentially and go work it out for yourself.

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Speaker 1: Go to the bank and ask them, or call the

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Speaker 1: bank independently and ask them, and chances are they'll say scam,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't us. So very important, Nigel, thank you for

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Speaker 1: your time this morning. Thanks Matthew, Nigel Fair that's a

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Speaker 1: Nigel Faar from monash Uni Cybersecurity