1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,801 Speaker 1: Appoch Production. 2 00:00:14,441 --> 00:00:16,601 Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm your host, 3 00:00:16,681 --> 00:00:20,561 Speaker 2: Adam Shand. In the eighties and nineties, I watched heroin 4 00:00:20,801 --> 00:00:21,921 Speaker 2: ravage my community. 5 00:00:22,641 --> 00:00:26,001 Speaker 3: Heroin deaths in New South Wales have risen dramatically over 6 00:00:26,001 --> 00:00:32,841 Speaker 3: the last decade. Emergency services report hundreds of fatal overdoses statewide. 7 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,201 Speaker 2: I never tried it myself, but it must have been 8 00:00:35,241 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 2: some kind of rush because it took hold of some 9 00:00:38,001 --> 00:00:41,201 Speaker 2: people very close to me and exacted a heavy toll. 10 00:00:42,361 --> 00:00:44,841 Speaker 4: It destroyed lives, turned good. 11 00:00:44,681 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 2: People into thieves and thugs, separated them from family and 12 00:00:48,241 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: loved ones. 13 00:00:49,281 --> 00:00:53,441 Speaker 3: Most overdoses occur quietly at home and epidemic moving in 14 00:00:53,561 --> 00:00:54,281 Speaker 3: plain sight. 15 00:00:55,441 --> 00:00:58,161 Speaker 2: It killed some, and some suffer to this day from 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,641 Speaker 2: their encounter with this vicious, merciless substance. I've known a 17 00:01:02,681 --> 00:01:05,161 Speaker 2: few people who were able to leave it behind and 18 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,841 Speaker 2: make a success of their lives, to recapture their youthful potential. 19 00:01:09,961 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: After years of addiction and crime. 20 00:01:12,041 --> 00:01:15,721 Speaker 3: One former heroin user is proving that change is possible. 21 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:18,601 Speaker 4: My guest today did just that. 22 00:01:19,241 --> 00:01:22,281 Speaker 2: He stopped blaming others and himself for his addiction and 23 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: left that life and the crime that went with it. Behind. 24 00:01:26,241 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: There's much to inspire others in the redemption of Dean King. 25 00:01:31,481 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: Between the ages of thirteen or fourteen and twenty seven, 26 00:01:34,521 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: Dean didn't spend a single full year out of jail. 27 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,361 Speaker 2: He was a good crook, a staunch from ruthless man 28 00:01:41,521 --> 00:01:44,681 Speaker 2: who thrived in the jail system, and he was destined 29 00:01:44,681 --> 00:01:47,921 Speaker 2: to spend most of his life behind bars in service 30 00:01:47,921 --> 00:01:52,441 Speaker 2: to his addiction, until one day he made a fateful decision. 31 00:01:53,241 --> 00:01:55,841 Speaker 2: He's written a book about it called King Hit, which 32 00:01:55,841 --> 00:01:58,041 Speaker 2: he hopes will be turned into a movie one day soon. 33 00:01:58,521 --> 00:02:01,841 Speaker 2: And it's my pleasure to welcome Dean King to real crime. 34 00:02:01,921 --> 00:02:02,601 Speaker 4: Gady Dean. 35 00:02:04,161 --> 00:02:07,161 Speaker 2: As you got out of it, mate, very well, Thank you. 36 00:02:07,241 --> 00:02:09,121 Speaker 2: It's a great pleasure to talk to you. I've looked 37 00:02:09,121 --> 00:02:13,001 Speaker 2: at all your videos on YouTube and Instagram and so forth, 38 00:02:13,041 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 2: and I feel like I know you. You're a very good 39 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: storyteller because you've lived that real life and you're still 40 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:20,481 Speaker 2: around to tell the story. 41 00:02:21,081 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 4: How did you get through all that? 42 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,641 Speaker 5: Well, it's a good question because I shouldn't have got 43 00:02:27,401 --> 00:02:30,521 Speaker 5: through it, you know, Like destiny is a funny thing, 44 00:02:31,001 --> 00:02:35,161 Speaker 5: and I had no comprehension that I was going to 45 00:02:35,201 --> 00:02:38,641 Speaker 5: come out of it the way that I came out 46 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,281 Speaker 5: of it. From a rational point of view, how did 47 00:02:41,321 --> 00:02:45,641 Speaker 5: I get through it? I had a moment when I 48 00:02:45,761 --> 00:02:53,601 Speaker 5: hit a rehab with no intentions whatsoever to change my recidivism, 49 00:02:54,121 --> 00:02:57,881 Speaker 5: my behavior, my outlook on life. 50 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,281 Speaker 1: I went to this rehab to escape. I had a 51 00:03:03,321 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: plan that I was going to knock off there vent. 52 00:03:06,761 --> 00:03:10,481 Speaker 5: I was going to go back to Sydney and I 53 00:03:10,641 --> 00:03:14,081 Speaker 5: was going to continue down the path that I'd been 54 00:03:14,201 --> 00:03:19,121 Speaker 5: on all my life. And this rehab was the turning 55 00:03:19,201 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 5: point in my life. What started out as a place 56 00:03:22,321 --> 00:03:28,681 Speaker 5: that I absolutely despised with a passion, I ended up 57 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,401 Speaker 5: loving everybody that was in there, and I was so 58 00:03:32,561 --> 00:03:37,281 Speaker 5: appreciated that I was very fortunate to go to a 59 00:03:37,401 --> 00:03:42,761 Speaker 5: place that I hated. So that was the start of 60 00:03:43,241 --> 00:03:48,481 Speaker 5: my turnaround. As I said, Destiny, call it an accident. Yeah, mate, 61 00:03:48,481 --> 00:03:51,361 Speaker 5: I had no intentions of change and I didn't think 62 00:03:51,401 --> 00:03:55,561 Speaker 5: I had a problem. And if you look back over 63 00:03:55,641 --> 00:04:01,801 Speaker 5: my life, a person at that caliber of crime and 64 00:04:01,921 --> 00:04:08,281 Speaker 5: disregard and disrespect for society and other people and myself, 65 00:04:09,601 --> 00:04:12,761 Speaker 5: I still pinched myself today that I'm here to tell 66 00:04:12,801 --> 00:04:13,441 Speaker 5: this story. 67 00:04:14,441 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you are to be honest, because you're 68 00:04:16,921 --> 00:04:19,761 Speaker 2: like many guys who go through this year. It's sort 69 00:04:19,801 --> 00:04:23,161 Speaker 2: of dirty on the earth, dirty on everything. And you 70 00:04:23,241 --> 00:04:27,121 Speaker 2: went into rehab there, and I guess in that life 71 00:04:27,201 --> 00:04:31,721 Speaker 2: you bottle all your emotions up, and to show emotions 72 00:04:31,721 --> 00:04:35,561 Speaker 2: in jail is weakness. And you got to a point 73 00:04:35,841 --> 00:04:39,281 Speaker 2: in that rehab, which was I guess court ordered where 74 00:04:39,721 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: the floodgates opened. 75 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:42,321 Speaker 4: Tell us about that. 76 00:04:43,801 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 5: Well, I didn't know anything about emotions, So I didn't 77 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,521 Speaker 5: know anything about a deeper level of my soul other 78 00:04:51,641 --> 00:04:58,881 Speaker 5: than survival because I was living in environments where that 79 00:04:59,281 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 5: was required. And I didn't understand that because I've been 80 00:05:03,641 --> 00:05:07,041 Speaker 5: living in those environments for so long. But I suppose 81 00:05:07,081 --> 00:05:11,321 Speaker 5: you could compare it like a war zone. But I 82 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 5: was a soldier that didn't sign up for it. I 83 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 5: was born into it. My parents, the people that I 84 00:05:20,561 --> 00:05:22,681 Speaker 5: had been associated with. 85 00:05:23,081 --> 00:05:23,921 Speaker 1: All my life. 86 00:05:24,801 --> 00:05:29,241 Speaker 5: It was just normal for me. It was normal for 87 00:05:29,281 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 5: me to not give a fuck about what other people thought. 88 00:05:35,201 --> 00:05:39,361 Speaker 5: It was normal for me to take anything that I 89 00:05:39,521 --> 00:05:45,161 Speaker 5: wanted off anybody at any time. It was normal for 90 00:05:45,281 --> 00:05:51,921 Speaker 5: me to have no regard whatsoever for anybody else, to 91 00:05:51,961 --> 00:05:53,121 Speaker 5: be violent. 92 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: To be aggressive. 93 00:05:55,161 --> 00:06:01,281 Speaker 5: This survival was what I was born into. As far 94 00:06:01,361 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 5: as emotions were concerned, I didn't know an emotion. The 95 00:06:06,561 --> 00:06:10,961 Speaker 5: only thing I knew about emotions was I was either 96 00:06:11,601 --> 00:06:15,481 Speaker 5: angry or happy. I didn't know anything in between. I 97 00:06:15,521 --> 00:06:19,401 Speaker 5: can remember being in a group of rehab early in 98 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 5: my recovery. The facilitator said to me, Dean, do you 99 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:28,801 Speaker 5: get angry? I said no, because I wasn't going to 100 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,801 Speaker 5: tell him how I felt. And he said, do you 101 00:06:32,961 --> 00:06:36,721 Speaker 5: know anger is okay? I said, what do you mean? 102 00:06:37,121 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 5: He said, everyone gets angry, but it's how you deal 103 00:06:41,681 --> 00:06:45,361 Speaker 5: with it that makes the difference. And I thought, you know, 104 00:06:45,481 --> 00:06:48,481 Speaker 5: I bashed everybody when I got angry. I attacked when 105 00:06:48,521 --> 00:06:51,561 Speaker 5: I got angry. That was the first time that I 106 00:06:51,641 --> 00:06:56,041 Speaker 5: heard of an emotion that I had that was put 107 00:06:56,281 --> 00:07:00,521 Speaker 5: in a way where the end result of it could 108 00:07:00,601 --> 00:07:01,481 Speaker 5: be handled in. 109 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,721 Speaker 1: A way where it didn't hurt. 110 00:07:03,521 --> 00:07:08,001 Speaker 5: Other people or it was a safe way to acknowledge anger. 111 00:07:08,801 --> 00:07:11,521 Speaker 5: That was only one emotion that I didn't know about 112 00:07:11,561 --> 00:07:15,921 Speaker 5: that I needed desperately to learn how to manage because 113 00:07:17,001 --> 00:07:21,921 Speaker 5: I was so unemotionally aware. I was an a literate emotionally. 114 00:07:22,761 --> 00:07:25,521 Speaker 5: I look back on that lifestyle and that's what you 115 00:07:25,641 --> 00:07:29,481 Speaker 5: have in these environments, like these people that go in 116 00:07:29,521 --> 00:07:33,401 Speaker 5: and out of these prison worlds psychologically, and I know 117 00:07:33,561 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 5: this because I've lived it, they're all completely scarred. And 118 00:07:39,881 --> 00:07:43,961 Speaker 5: it's great that we glorify their behavior and it's out 119 00:07:43,961 --> 00:07:49,201 Speaker 5: of this world and normal people don't understand the psychological. 120 00:07:48,481 --> 00:07:49,081 Speaker 1: Side of it. 121 00:07:50,041 --> 00:07:55,161 Speaker 5: But you're glorifying most of these people who are psychologically 122 00:07:55,881 --> 00:07:57,241 Speaker 5: scarred in a way. 123 00:07:57,081 --> 00:07:59,121 Speaker 1: Where they're a train wreck. 124 00:07:59,481 --> 00:08:05,081 Speaker 5: They're drug addicts, they've got no concern for societies. A 125 00:08:05,121 --> 00:08:11,001 Speaker 5: lot of them lack empathy and compassion, absolutely self centered, dangerous. 126 00:08:12,521 --> 00:08:17,641 Speaker 5: You know, unemotional people live in prison, and that's why 127 00:08:17,681 --> 00:08:20,681 Speaker 5: they've got to go to prison, because society needs to 128 00:08:20,721 --> 00:08:22,641 Speaker 5: be safeguarded from people like this. 129 00:08:23,801 --> 00:08:26,961 Speaker 4: And you were cold and hard, you bottled all your 130 00:08:27,001 --> 00:08:27,641 Speaker 4: emotions up. 131 00:08:27,641 --> 00:08:29,841 Speaker 2: But when it went Jesus Christ, it was it an 132 00:08:30,041 --> 00:08:34,641 Speaker 2: absolute like opening the floodgates. It just didn't stop. What happened, Well, 133 00:08:34,641 --> 00:08:34,921 Speaker 2: it was. 134 00:08:34,881 --> 00:08:40,201 Speaker 5: A nightmare, mate, because I had built up unconsciously so 135 00:08:40,481 --> 00:08:45,001 Speaker 5: much emotion within me that I couldn't deal with it. 136 00:08:45,121 --> 00:08:47,761 Speaker 5: Like the only way I could deal with feelings and 137 00:08:47,801 --> 00:08:53,721 Speaker 5: emotions was to take drugs or to blame everybody else 138 00:08:54,361 --> 00:08:59,281 Speaker 5: for those feelings and emotions or be aggressive towards other people. 139 00:08:59,681 --> 00:09:04,881 Speaker 5: So when I was in that rehab, they had cardinal rules. 140 00:09:05,121 --> 00:09:09,921 Speaker 5: One of those cardinal rules was no violence or no 141 00:09:10,041 --> 00:09:14,841 Speaker 5: threats of violence. Now I had to maintain that because 142 00:09:14,921 --> 00:09:16,481 Speaker 5: I wanted to knock off their car. 143 00:09:16,841 --> 00:09:20,441 Speaker 1: You know, I had a plan, and you. 144 00:09:20,401 --> 00:09:26,641 Speaker 5: Know I was extremely manipulative, cunning, shifty, So that plan 145 00:09:27,881 --> 00:09:29,881 Speaker 5: had to come into a reality. 146 00:09:29,921 --> 00:09:31,161 Speaker 1: So I had to buy my time. 147 00:09:31,761 --> 00:09:34,841 Speaker 5: But every single day the program, it was based on 148 00:09:34,881 --> 00:09:40,161 Speaker 5: their called therapeutic communities, and one part of these programs 149 00:09:40,281 --> 00:09:44,281 Speaker 5: is that the residents confront each other every day on 150 00:09:44,321 --> 00:09:45,361 Speaker 5: their behaviors. 151 00:09:45,641 --> 00:09:48,361 Speaker 1: Each residence sees. 152 00:09:48,081 --> 00:09:52,761 Speaker 5: Within them and they call them confrontations. And this is 153 00:09:52,921 --> 00:09:57,841 Speaker 5: only one part of the program. But these confrontations start 154 00:09:57,881 --> 00:10:00,281 Speaker 5: from six point thirty in the morning when your eyes 155 00:10:00,681 --> 00:10:04,961 Speaker 5: light up, and they don't stop till eleven thirty that night, 156 00:10:05,281 --> 00:10:09,161 Speaker 5: seven days a week. So it's like everybody's attacking each 157 00:10:09,201 --> 00:10:10,721 Speaker 5: other interactively. 158 00:10:11,561 --> 00:10:13,921 Speaker 1: And they're all heroin addicts. 159 00:10:13,521 --> 00:10:16,441 Speaker 5: And like drug addicts, So you're going to imagine the 160 00:10:16,561 --> 00:10:20,121 Speaker 5: drama going on in there. And I don't like each other. 161 00:10:20,481 --> 00:10:23,761 Speaker 5: They're unhappy with each other. You know, there's so much 162 00:10:23,841 --> 00:10:28,281 Speaker 5: drama over petty things. They're you know, they're coping mechanisms 163 00:10:28,361 --> 00:10:31,401 Speaker 5: are really immature, like childish. 164 00:10:31,921 --> 00:10:35,841 Speaker 1: So I had all this emotion bottled. 165 00:10:35,521 --> 00:10:40,241 Speaker 5: Up within me living in this environment where I'm suppressing 166 00:10:40,321 --> 00:10:45,081 Speaker 5: it all because I'm not bashing anybody. I haven't got drugs, 167 00:10:45,521 --> 00:10:50,241 Speaker 5: i haven't got my normal coping mechanisms that I use 168 00:10:51,161 --> 00:10:54,721 Speaker 5: in prison or on the street. I'm like a pressure 169 00:10:54,721 --> 00:10:57,201 Speaker 5: cooker and I'm not the lone ranger there. 170 00:10:57,241 --> 00:11:00,241 Speaker 1: You know, all these people are like that. They're all 171 00:11:00,361 --> 00:11:00,641 Speaker 1: like me. 172 00:11:00,801 --> 00:11:05,321 Speaker 5: They're all immature emotionally. The coke and this is what 173 00:11:05,401 --> 00:11:08,401 Speaker 5: the program is trying to teach us. 174 00:11:09,041 --> 00:11:12,281 Speaker 1: We've got to handle this. We've got to manage ourselves. 175 00:11:12,321 --> 00:11:16,801 Speaker 5: We've got to deal with stuff not by physical interactions. 176 00:11:17,161 --> 00:11:20,841 Speaker 5: We've got to deal with stuff not by being disrespectful 177 00:11:20,841 --> 00:11:25,521 Speaker 5: to one another, listening to one other, respecting other people. Yeah, 178 00:11:25,601 --> 00:11:29,201 Speaker 5: one day, I'm working on this work site. They had 179 00:11:30,001 --> 00:11:32,721 Speaker 5: a guy in there who was a resident. They call 180 00:11:32,841 --> 00:11:38,041 Speaker 5: him the Ramrod, and he used to come around and 181 00:11:38,481 --> 00:11:43,281 Speaker 5: give notes from start. But these notes were designed to 182 00:11:43,561 --> 00:11:46,881 Speaker 5: bring up reactions in people, and that's what the whole 183 00:11:46,921 --> 00:11:51,041 Speaker 5: program was about, you know, like to bring up emotions 184 00:11:51,081 --> 00:11:54,161 Speaker 5: and feelings in people, to teach people to manage it 185 00:11:54,681 --> 00:11:59,321 Speaker 5: instead of not being able to handle yourself like normal 186 00:11:59,401 --> 00:12:03,841 Speaker 5: people when they have struggles or tough times, or when 187 00:12:03,841 --> 00:12:07,721 Speaker 5: they've got pressure or they're going problems. And I get 188 00:12:07,761 --> 00:12:13,081 Speaker 5: this note from this Ramrod, and I had many people 189 00:12:13,121 --> 00:12:16,641 Speaker 5: confront me on things like this over the three or 190 00:12:16,681 --> 00:12:21,961 Speaker 5: four months I was there about you know, I was angry, intimidating, threatening, 191 00:12:22,721 --> 00:12:28,081 Speaker 5: disrespectful to others. And he gave me the dail and 192 00:12:28,081 --> 00:12:30,641 Speaker 5: he said, where do you get off hurting other people 193 00:12:30,761 --> 00:12:34,601 Speaker 5: who are not as strong as you, you know, like 194 00:12:34,881 --> 00:12:37,361 Speaker 5: intimidating people and threatening people. 195 00:12:37,681 --> 00:12:39,321 Speaker 1: And I just went off my fucking head. 196 00:12:40,321 --> 00:12:43,761 Speaker 5: I was working on this work site. We were putting 197 00:12:43,761 --> 00:12:47,441 Speaker 5: in water pipes. There was pick handles there, there was 198 00:12:47,481 --> 00:12:52,081 Speaker 5: shovels there, there was all these other instruments they were 199 00:12:52,241 --> 00:12:56,401 Speaker 5: using to bolt the pipes together. And I just went 200 00:12:56,721 --> 00:13:02,641 Speaker 5: fucking intimidating people, fucking threatening people. I'll show your fucking intimidation. 201 00:13:02,921 --> 00:13:06,521 Speaker 5: I'll show your fucking threats. And that was it. I 202 00:13:06,881 --> 00:13:10,921 Speaker 5: just went ballistic. I remember there was a big oak 203 00:13:10,961 --> 00:13:14,561 Speaker 5: tree there and I looked at the oak tree and 204 00:13:14,601 --> 00:13:17,121 Speaker 5: I just raced over to and I started head button 205 00:13:17,161 --> 00:13:19,681 Speaker 5: it with everything that I had him. 206 00:13:19,761 --> 00:13:21,601 Speaker 1: He just head button and head button it. 207 00:13:22,321 --> 00:13:26,761 Speaker 5: And then I turned to the residents on the work 208 00:13:26,881 --> 00:13:31,961 Speaker 5: side and everyone just fucking scarp it. The facilitator looking 209 00:13:32,041 --> 00:13:34,481 Speaker 5: after us all, he just said to him, fucking run 210 00:13:34,961 --> 00:13:35,801 Speaker 5: get out of here. 211 00:13:36,001 --> 00:13:36,201 Speaker 1: Right. 212 00:13:37,441 --> 00:13:40,041 Speaker 5: It was on a farm and there was cows next 213 00:13:40,121 --> 00:13:43,841 Speaker 5: door with their heads over the fence, you know, eating grass, 214 00:13:44,521 --> 00:13:47,201 Speaker 5: and I went for the fucking cows and. 215 00:13:47,121 --> 00:13:49,481 Speaker 1: They shit themselves and the bulls. 216 00:13:49,041 --> 00:13:51,401 Speaker 5: And they fucking run away, and I jumped the fence 217 00:13:51,441 --> 00:13:54,961 Speaker 5: and tried to chase them. And the poor old farmer 218 00:13:55,041 --> 00:13:58,721 Speaker 5: next stor he's driving around in hes toyota and I 219 00:13:58,841 --> 00:14:01,361 Speaker 5: see him and I gave for him in the car 220 00:14:01,881 --> 00:14:04,081 Speaker 5: and he just tries to run me over and I 221 00:14:04,241 --> 00:14:06,161 Speaker 5: run into him to take the hit of the car 222 00:14:06,761 --> 00:14:10,401 Speaker 5: and he spins the car just away from me, and 223 00:14:10,681 --> 00:14:14,241 Speaker 5: I chase him and he fucks off, and I jumped 224 00:14:14,281 --> 00:14:17,401 Speaker 5: back over the fence and I'm back into this tree, 225 00:14:17,961 --> 00:14:19,601 Speaker 5: punching it with everything I got. 226 00:14:20,601 --> 00:14:22,401 Speaker 1: And I'm punching it and I'm punching it. 227 00:14:22,521 --> 00:14:26,401 Speaker 5: I'm punching it, and these words started coming out of 228 00:14:26,441 --> 00:14:29,201 Speaker 5: my mouth, you know, like I'm sick to death from 229 00:14:29,361 --> 00:14:30,481 Speaker 5: being controlled. 230 00:14:31,441 --> 00:14:32,761 Speaker 1: I'm sick to death of it. 231 00:14:32,881 --> 00:14:36,201 Speaker 5: I'm sick to death for institutions. I'm sick to death 232 00:14:36,201 --> 00:14:38,641 Speaker 5: for places like this. I'm sick to death of job. 233 00:14:39,161 --> 00:14:41,641 Speaker 5: And I just kept punching the tree and punching the 234 00:14:41,681 --> 00:14:44,121 Speaker 5: tree and punching the tree, and all the birds started 235 00:14:44,201 --> 00:14:44,921 Speaker 5: flying out in. 236 00:14:44,961 --> 00:14:45,601 Speaker 1: Trees, you know. 237 00:14:46,681 --> 00:14:50,041 Speaker 5: And after about ten minutes of this, like my hands 238 00:14:50,041 --> 00:14:55,441 Speaker 5: were completely bloody. I was absolutely fucking exhausted, and I 239 00:14:55,521 --> 00:14:58,361 Speaker 5: fell on my knees and I just started crying. 240 00:14:58,961 --> 00:15:04,081 Speaker 1: I couldn't stop. And I cried and I cried and 241 00:15:04,121 --> 00:15:04,761 Speaker 1: I cried. 242 00:15:05,921 --> 00:15:11,401 Speaker 5: And the director of the rehab who become a very dear, 243 00:15:12,001 --> 00:15:15,241 Speaker 5: close friend of mine and I still love her today. 244 00:15:16,041 --> 00:15:19,041 Speaker 5: Her name was Jenny Klassen. And you know, this was 245 00:15:19,081 --> 00:15:23,081 Speaker 5: thirty five years ago, so I've lost, you know, connections 246 00:15:23,081 --> 00:15:26,241 Speaker 5: with a lot of people. I still would have loved 247 00:15:26,241 --> 00:15:27,961 Speaker 5: to have had her today as a friend. 248 00:15:29,281 --> 00:15:32,841 Speaker 1: She just stood there next to me. 249 00:15:33,601 --> 00:15:37,681 Speaker 5: She just stood there, solid, she didn't move, She was 250 00:15:37,961 --> 00:15:44,081 Speaker 5: of no concern of what had took place, and she 251 00:15:44,281 --> 00:15:49,401 Speaker 5: was just silent, you know, and then she just said, 252 00:15:49,481 --> 00:15:56,641 Speaker 5: you know, like it's still for long, you know, because 253 00:15:56,881 --> 00:16:03,761 Speaker 5: there was that moment bait that's about and she. 254 00:16:03,841 --> 00:16:06,441 Speaker 1: Just said it's okay. 255 00:16:06,601 --> 00:16:14,561 Speaker 5: Do you know it's okay? I couldn't. I was hyper ventilating. 256 00:16:14,601 --> 00:16:17,841 Speaker 5: I had no tears coming out of my eyes. That's 257 00:16:17,881 --> 00:16:23,081 Speaker 5: how long I was crying for. I remember laying on 258 00:16:23,161 --> 00:16:29,681 Speaker 5: the grass and I couldn't talk. I wanted to say thanks, 259 00:16:31,441 --> 00:16:35,121 Speaker 5: but I couldn't do it. So she stayed with me, 260 00:16:36,401 --> 00:16:39,561 Speaker 5: and then he said, what do you want to do? 261 00:16:41,641 --> 00:16:42,321 Speaker 1: I said, I'm. 262 00:16:42,201 --> 00:16:45,921 Speaker 5: Tired in voice it like not in those words, but 263 00:16:46,041 --> 00:16:48,281 Speaker 5: she got the gift of it. She said, come, I'm 264 00:16:48,281 --> 00:16:54,001 Speaker 5: go and have a sleep, you know. So I went 265 00:16:55,241 --> 00:17:00,041 Speaker 5: and laid down and cleaned myself up in the shower somewhat, 266 00:17:01,441 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 5: and then I went to sleep and I slept for 267 00:17:07,281 --> 00:17:11,801 Speaker 5: about a day and a half. And I remember when 268 00:17:11,801 --> 00:17:16,561 Speaker 5: I woke up, I never felt so light on my 269 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,321 Speaker 5: feet in my life or as far back as I 270 00:17:20,360 --> 00:17:21,041 Speaker 5: could remember. 271 00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:23,521 Speaker 1: And I just felt free. 272 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 5: I felt no pressure, I felt no resistance. I felt 273 00:17:28,241 --> 00:17:31,601 Speaker 5: like this, I'm comfortable, you know, And I never felt that. 274 00:17:32,521 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 5: And what happened being in that really vulnerable state after that, 275 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 5: because I didn't know I'm feeling vulnerable, was like, fuck me, Dad, 276 00:17:41,961 --> 00:17:46,121 Speaker 5: look at the life I lived. So I had one 277 00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 5: of my peers in my peer group. They had four 278 00:17:50,241 --> 00:17:53,961 Speaker 5: levels there and I was in level two and one 279 00:17:53,961 --> 00:17:56,801 Speaker 5: of my peers from level two was there and his 280 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 5: name was Quentin. He said, how are you going? And 281 00:18:00,481 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 5: he said, come here, and he gave me a hug 282 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,001 Speaker 5: and he said how are you going? 283 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,401 Speaker 1: I said, I feel good. 284 00:18:12,681 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 5: And he said, welcome the vulnerability. I said, if this 285 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 5: is vulnerability, I'm never going to leave it. 286 00:18:21,801 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 2: Amazing Because you'd grown up on the streets of Balmain 287 00:18:26,441 --> 00:18:29,561 Speaker 2: Piedmont in Sydney, which I don't know what it is 288 00:18:29,561 --> 00:18:32,961 Speaker 2: about that Eric, particularly Balmain, but it produced more good 289 00:18:32,961 --> 00:18:35,601 Speaker 2: crooks than any other part of Sydney. What was your 290 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,401 Speaker 2: life growing up that hardened you so much and led 291 00:18:39,441 --> 00:18:40,201 Speaker 2: you in this direction. 292 00:18:41,001 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 5: Well, I didn't think I was hardened because I grew 293 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 5: up around crooks. I grew up around really hard men, 294 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,801 Speaker 5: tough men, men that could fight. As you know, there's 295 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 5: a pub on every corner in Balmain. There's not a 296 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,160 Speaker 5: night that would go by that there wasn't a stink 297 00:19:00,321 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 5: somewhere on the street after the doors were closed, or 298 00:19:05,241 --> 00:19:07,481 Speaker 5: it are wrapped in the pub with somebody, or they'd 299 00:19:07,481 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 5: be going over to the park and having a stink 300 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 5: and having a knuckle, or somebody would be going somebody 301 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 5: with a weapon, or an attack would come. You know, 302 00:19:17,521 --> 00:19:20,721 Speaker 5: Like I'm not saying every single night, yes you could 303 00:19:20,761 --> 00:19:24,041 Speaker 5: go out. Normal people. I'm sure used to go out 304 00:19:24,201 --> 00:19:27,161 Speaker 5: those pubs in that era. But I've seen a lot 305 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,561 Speaker 5: of violence in pubs. But I also seen a lot 306 00:19:30,561 --> 00:19:34,921 Speaker 5: of violence in the streets. I also seen a lot 307 00:19:34,961 --> 00:19:40,161 Speaker 5: of violence in homes. So as far as being hardens concerned, 308 00:19:40,281 --> 00:19:42,001 Speaker 5: I didn't think I was hardened. 309 00:19:42,201 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: That's who I was. 310 00:19:44,201 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 5: I didn't know anything deeper cognitively within my soul. And 311 00:19:48,921 --> 00:19:50,961 Speaker 5: I think a lot of people are like that. 312 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:51,881 Speaker 1: I think we. 313 00:19:51,921 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 5: All start out as children and we grow up, and 314 00:19:57,561 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 5: it doesn't matter if you come from baur main or 315 00:19:59,721 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 5: hard areas. We're not emotionally intelligent until we start questioning things, 316 00:20:05,521 --> 00:20:10,041 Speaker 5: until life presents struggles for us, until we go through 317 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 5: tough times, until we get challenged in say a relationships 318 00:20:15,321 --> 00:20:19,001 Speaker 5: or a situation might arise that might take you somewhere 319 00:20:19,001 --> 00:20:24,241 Speaker 5: where you go, fuck and what's happened here? Like, things 320 00:20:24,281 --> 00:20:30,001 Speaker 5: become really challenging, and it's in those moments that you 321 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 5: either hopefully see what you're experiencing on a deeper level, 322 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 5: so you can capture it, or you keep repeating a 323 00:20:41,681 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 5: lot of struggle until maybe one day you start looking 324 00:20:48,761 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 5: within instead of outside of yourself all the time for 325 00:20:52,241 --> 00:20:55,561 Speaker 5: your answers. And I think that's what happened to me. 326 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 5: That experience allowed me to look in, and when I 327 00:21:01,281 --> 00:21:05,001 Speaker 5: looked in instead of looking out as everybody else, was 328 00:21:05,201 --> 00:21:11,721 Speaker 5: the blame to my emotional state, circumstances that happened outside 329 00:21:11,801 --> 00:21:16,041 Speaker 5: of myself was the cause of the consequences I was living. 330 00:21:16,681 --> 00:21:20,041 Speaker 2: As most of the listeners know, my dad was a psychiatrist, 331 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,801 Speaker 2: and I grew up with him telling me that you've 332 00:21:23,801 --> 00:21:27,001 Speaker 2: got to learn to self soothe. You've got to be 333 00:21:27,001 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 2: able to look inside yourself and regulate, and I guess 334 00:21:31,561 --> 00:21:35,281 Speaker 2: learn to like yourself. What I've seen of your story, 335 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 2: you didn't like yourself very much. You were a redhead 336 00:21:39,961 --> 00:21:44,561 Speaker 2: Haji kid. You thought you're ugly, probably didn't mix that well. 337 00:21:44,921 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 2: I think you had problems at home. You weren't given 338 00:21:48,241 --> 00:21:52,281 Speaker 2: many good examples. I've had to build your own self 339 00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 2: esteem and do that self soothing one. 340 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,241 Speaker 5: But there was a lot of people back in the 341 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:03,801 Speaker 5: day very similar to me. That we're in the same boat. 342 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,961 Speaker 5: I don't think, or maybe I'm just being naive now. 343 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 5: I don't think there was a lot of people, especially 344 00:22:12,481 --> 00:22:16,401 Speaker 5: parents back in those days and prior to that, back. 345 00:22:16,201 --> 00:22:19,241 Speaker 1: In the seventies, sixties, fifties, forties. 346 00:22:19,801 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 5: That had the ability to cognitively manage their offsprings in 347 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,521 Speaker 5: giving them insight to giving them better self esteem. Regardless 348 00:22:29,561 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 5: of why I didn't get it, I think that was 349 00:22:32,721 --> 00:22:38,441 Speaker 5: the general overhaul of how people parented back in the day. 350 00:22:38,681 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 5: They parented in a way where children were seen and 351 00:22:43,801 --> 00:22:47,681 Speaker 5: not heard. Get on with it, don't be a bitch, 352 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,041 Speaker 5: you know, Harden the fuck up? 353 00:22:50,761 --> 00:22:51,801 Speaker 1: What are you a girl? 354 00:22:52,681 --> 00:22:55,360 Speaker 5: And I'm sure you know that stuff. Well you would 355 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 5: know that stuff, Adam, you know. 356 00:22:57,761 --> 00:22:58,321 Speaker 4: Yeah. 357 00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 2: And a lot of boys had problems with their fathers. 358 00:23:03,001 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 2: And I think your father took this slip it to 359 00:23:05,481 --> 00:23:06,921 Speaker 2: you pretty regularly. 360 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,841 Speaker 5: Well, he did, but I wouldn't say regularly. He did 361 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 5: have a crack on me a few times. But he 362 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 5: was very intimidating. My mother used to say his bark 363 00:23:23,441 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 5: is worse than his bite, but that bark had a 364 00:23:28,721 --> 00:23:33,241 Speaker 5: very big impact on me as a child. He's alcoholism, 365 00:23:33,681 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 5: he's ranting, he's raving. He was a big man, six' 366 00:23:38,241 --> 00:23:41,761 Speaker 5: six and the dialogue that used to come out of 367 00:23:41,761 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 5: his mouth like every word was your fucking, Dog you 368 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,201 Speaker 5: fucking can't fuck these fucking Mother you, know every word 369 00:23:49,321 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 5: was F c and you, know monkey, see monkey. Do 370 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 5: but in saying, That i've got to pull back on 371 00:23:56,721 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 5: that a little bit because my brother he didn't turn 372 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 5: out with that filthy mouth LIKE i. 373 00:24:02,281 --> 00:24:06,721 Speaker 1: Had but he did turn out with addiction. 374 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:12,441 Speaker 5: Problems and if you look at my whole, family indirectly 375 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 5: the consequences of being parented under my, parents there was 376 00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:23,681 Speaker 5: a lot of addictions and a lot of, trauma and 377 00:24:23,921 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 5: every one of the siblings ended up in struggle. Street you, 378 00:24:28,481 --> 00:24:32,041 Speaker 5: KNOW i mean little, sister the one older than, me 379 00:24:32,241 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 5: she was pregnant at thirteen or. Fourteen the sister above, 380 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 5: that she had terrible self image, problems, overeating ended up 381 00:24:43,961 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 5: taking massive amounts of, pills housing, estates poor social economic 382 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 5: situations where she couldn't develop herself in a way where 383 00:24:57,521 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 5: she found stability and long term work or gold or 384 00:25:01,921 --> 00:25:03,641 Speaker 5: have orientation of. 385 00:25:03,761 --> 00:25:06,241 Speaker 1: Doing things in life and having. 386 00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:12,041 Speaker 5: Purpose and she struggled a lot and got into very 387 00:25:12,041 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 5: abusive relationships with other. Alcoholics and you look at my, 388 00:25:15,241 --> 00:25:19,561 Speaker 5: brother he became a heroin. Addict but my brother was 389 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,641 Speaker 5: probably the only one out of the three of us 390 00:25:24,561 --> 00:25:29,001 Speaker 5: that showed some kind of hope because he used to. 391 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,801 Speaker 1: Work he used to go away from the. 392 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 5: Family he used to go and work down At Charlotte's, 393 00:25:35,721 --> 00:25:39,201 Speaker 5: past down at The. Snow he used to work there 394 00:25:39,321 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 5: in the, winter and then he'd be up on the 395 00:25:41,681 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 5: coast in the, summer you, know up AT. Nusa and 396 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 5: that theme was pretty common back then for you, know 397 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,801 Speaker 5: the young. Fellas you, know as you Know, adam you'd 398 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,841 Speaker 5: know about. That they used to do a lot of traveling, 399 00:25:52,921 --> 00:25:56,041 Speaker 5: around the young guys and getting jobs in the. Restaurants 400 00:25:56,721 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 5: but he was pretty much the only one that showed 401 00:26:00,481 --> 00:26:05,401 Speaker 5: some kind of normality out of that. Family too make 402 00:26:05,521 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 5: something of himself and makes something better than what he. 403 00:26:10,521 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: Got brought up. 404 00:26:11,281 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 5: With but he still had a heroin, addiction you, know 405 00:26:14,761 --> 00:26:18,801 Speaker 5: so psychologically he was still struggling a. 406 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 4: Lot. 407 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 2: Right, yeah my dad decided That i'd gone to a 408 00:26:22,681 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 2: private school In sydney at all the, advantages AND i 409 00:26:24,961 --> 00:26:27,321 Speaker 2: was a smart ass, kid. 410 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 4: Not humble at. All ilways had no. 411 00:26:30,001 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 2: Direction so he, said, Right you're going off to The 412 00:26:32,481 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 2: Northern terrestiary to work in the mine and go you, 413 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:37,961 Speaker 2: know AND i SUDDENLY i was AMONGST i was amongst 414 00:26:37,961 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 2: men for the first, time hard, men men who were 415 00:26:40,961 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 2: there under aliases or running away from the, law or 416 00:26:44,521 --> 00:26:47,041 Speaker 2: all kinds of. Situations and it was the you, know 417 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,801 Speaker 2: it was a very hard, thing AND i cursed my 418 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,601 Speaker 2: dad WHEN i was. There BUT i looked back at 419 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 2: those things AND i thought it was good for. Me 420 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:57,281 Speaker 2: but you ended up on the streets in your home 421 00:26:57,360 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 2: area there and you fell to. Crime what sort of 422 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,681 Speaker 2: what was what was your first forays into? 423 00:27:01,681 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 5: Crime, well BECAUSE i was brought up around, crime it 424 00:27:06,921 --> 00:27:12,041 Speaker 5: was pretty normal for me to go down that, road you, 425 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:18,641 Speaker 5: know knocking off, kids push, bikes stealing out of, shops stealing, 426 00:27:18,721 --> 00:27:20,241 Speaker 5: cars stealing. 427 00:27:20,281 --> 00:27:24,281 Speaker 1: Motorbikes these THINGS i enjoyed to. 428 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:28,721 Speaker 5: Do LIKE i enjoyed driving, CARS i enjoyed. 429 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,801 Speaker 1: MOTORBIKES i enjoyed. 430 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:36,041 Speaker 5: Money AND i had no comprehension of how other people 431 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 5: felt about. THAT i was brought up to have no 432 00:27:39,801 --> 00:27:44,961 Speaker 5: empathy for other people or no compassion. Whatsoever so as 433 00:27:45,001 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 5: far as crime is, CONCERNED i just did anything THAT 434 00:27:48,281 --> 00:27:53,041 Speaker 5: i wanted and took anything THAT i. Wanted and that's 435 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,041 Speaker 5: HOW i survived to. 436 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,121 Speaker 2: Take us through year rapt because you've been in jails 437 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,721 Speaker 2: in three, States, Bogo raid In, QUEENSLAND i Think Long 438 00:28:01,801 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 2: bay or Silver water In, sydney and Then pintridge and In. 439 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 2: Melbourne what was your progression through the ranks of. 440 00:28:08,721 --> 00:28:14,161 Speaker 5: Crime, well BECAUSE i had done so much of, it 441 00:28:15,721 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 5: my progression, was, well If i'm gonna live like, THIS 442 00:28:21,321 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 5: i might as well attempt to be the. Best AND 443 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,801 Speaker 5: i used to look at crims in there that had, 444 00:28:27,921 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 5: respect you, know like crims that were respected in the 445 00:28:32,441 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 5: system where and they were good, fighters they were, violent 446 00:28:37,241 --> 00:28:41,681 Speaker 5: they were, aggressive people looked up to. Them they got 447 00:28:41,721 --> 00:28:45,321 Speaker 5: pretty much anything they want because that kind of respect 448 00:28:45,441 --> 00:28:45,921 Speaker 5: worked in. 449 00:28:45,961 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: Prison SO i aspired to. 450 00:28:49,321 --> 00:28:53,801 Speaker 5: That my progression through the prison world was to have, 451 00:28:53,881 --> 00:28:59,001 Speaker 5: respect you, know to show people THAT i had dash 452 00:28:59,641 --> 00:29:03,641 Speaker 5: That i'll fight, You i'll go, YA i don't care 453 00:29:03,681 --> 00:29:06,881 Speaker 5: who you, are what crime you've, DONE i have no 454 00:29:07,041 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 5: fear of. 455 00:29:07,521 --> 00:29:10,641 Speaker 1: You and, yeah that. 456 00:29:10,841 --> 00:29:16,041 Speaker 5: HAPPENED i learned in rehab THAT i was just pushing 457 00:29:16,161 --> 00:29:19,241 Speaker 5: normal people away from, me you, know because of that 458 00:29:19,321 --> 00:29:23,401 Speaker 5: person i'd. Become that was my progression in the prison 459 00:29:23,441 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 5: world as far as, progression to be. Somebody BUT i 460 00:29:28,881 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 5: learned also that that be under somebody like that that 461 00:29:34,601 --> 00:29:38,921 Speaker 5: only worked in the prison. World that didn't work in. 462 00:29:39,001 --> 00:29:44,481 Speaker 5: Society normal people were very threatened by. It and they 463 00:29:45,281 --> 00:29:52,041 Speaker 5: may appear to engage and they may appear to have 464 00:29:52,201 --> 00:29:58,041 Speaker 5: relationships with people like, that but they can't get close 465 00:29:58,121 --> 00:30:02,121 Speaker 5: to a person like, That nor can a person who 466 00:30:02,281 --> 00:30:07,721 Speaker 5: can't distinguish a prison lifestyle or a prison attitude or 467 00:30:07,761 --> 00:30:10,561 Speaker 5: A recipi as offender who spent a long time in. 468 00:30:10,601 --> 00:30:14,241 Speaker 5: Prison i'm not saying, everybody But i'd say a big 469 00:30:14,321 --> 00:30:19,321 Speaker 5: majority of them can't see why they struggle in relationships 470 00:30:19,361 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 5: outside because of. 471 00:30:20,481 --> 00:30:23,201 Speaker 2: That that's, right AND i think a lot of, prisoners 472 00:30:23,761 --> 00:30:28,001 Speaker 2: particularly those who've been into, heroin they used the drug 473 00:30:28,041 --> 00:30:32,001 Speaker 2: as a way of finding consolation. 474 00:30:31,521 --> 00:30:34,361 Speaker 4: And comfort and a bit of joy Even. 475 00:30:34,801 --> 00:30:40,281 Speaker 5: Well it's interesting because on that, POINT i didn't think 476 00:30:40,321 --> 00:30:45,121 Speaker 5: THAT i used heroin because of. THAT i THOUGHT i 477 00:30:45,321 --> 00:30:51,081 Speaker 5: took drugs BECAUSE i liked. THEM i was completely. WRONG 478 00:30:51,961 --> 00:30:54,761 Speaker 5: i took drugs for the reason you just mentioned full. 479 00:30:54,841 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 5: STYLE i was so broken, emotionally my nervous system was 480 00:31:00,761 --> 00:31:05,841 Speaker 5: so fucked from years and years and years and years 481 00:31:05,881 --> 00:31:11,361 Speaker 5: and years of. Trauma that relieved, me that gave me. 482 00:31:11,481 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 5: Peace WHEN i stuck a needle in my arm AND 483 00:31:15,521 --> 00:31:20,081 Speaker 5: i felt heroin opium going through my. System it was, like, 484 00:31:20,521 --> 00:31:26,081 Speaker 5: oh you hear heroin addicts talk that it's better than an, 485 00:31:26,201 --> 00:31:30,361 Speaker 5: orgasm that, is it's the best, thing and it. Is 486 00:31:31,401 --> 00:31:34,081 Speaker 5: but it's only like that because of the pain the 487 00:31:34,121 --> 00:31:37,961 Speaker 5: people that are. In if those people weren't in so much, 488 00:31:38,081 --> 00:31:44,081 Speaker 5: pain that relief wouldn't work on. Them SO i realized 489 00:31:44,241 --> 00:31:46,841 Speaker 5: because of, THAT i had a lot of work to 490 00:31:46,921 --> 00:31:49,921 Speaker 5: do on this, pain AND i had to explore it 491 00:31:50,601 --> 00:31:54,641 Speaker 5: because IF i didn't start making the effort to look at, 492 00:31:54,681 --> 00:31:57,961 Speaker 5: myself to go and see, counselors to go and see 493 00:31:58,081 --> 00:32:03,401 Speaker 5: psychologists to talk about my problems and continue on after, 494 00:32:03,561 --> 00:32:07,081 Speaker 5: REHAB i don't HALF i would have got as. 495 00:32:06,561 --> 00:32:08,081 Speaker 1: Far AS i did in, life you. 496 00:32:08,121 --> 00:32:12,921 Speaker 2: Know, Yeah and you're an absolute miracle in my, opinion, 497 00:32:12,961 --> 00:32:15,561 Speaker 2: because AS i said at the, BEGINNING i knew a 498 00:32:15,561 --> 00:32:19,641 Speaker 2: lot of people who had got off, heroin but it 499 00:32:19,761 --> 00:32:23,001 Speaker 2: left scars on, them it left them depend upon. Others 500 00:32:23,561 --> 00:32:26,401 Speaker 2: very few of them managed to make a. Success and, 501 00:32:26,441 --> 00:32:31,601 Speaker 2: you against the, odds once you finish, rehab you actually 502 00:32:32,161 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 2: have made a. Life for you say you made a. 503 00:32:34,001 --> 00:32:37,361 Speaker 2: Fortune you, KNOW i think you're the. Richest ex Junkie 504 00:32:37,361 --> 00:32:38,041 Speaker 2: i've ever heard. 505 00:32:38,081 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 4: Of how did you do? 506 00:32:39,801 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 5: That i'll take that as a. Wrap, WELL i did 507 00:32:45,281 --> 00:32:48,121 Speaker 5: it through. DISCIPLINE i did it through work and. HARD 508 00:32:49,201 --> 00:32:52,001 Speaker 5: i did it through a. PLAN i did it through 509 00:32:53,201 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 5: having a vision of completing one task at a, time 510 00:32:58,401 --> 00:33:02,681 Speaker 5: and it. WORKED i KNEW i had to get a, 511 00:33:02,761 --> 00:33:07,761 Speaker 5: job AND i KNEW i had to get a credit. 512 00:33:07,561 --> 00:33:12,281 Speaker 1: Rate AND i knew THAT i had to save. 513 00:33:12,401 --> 00:33:16,881 Speaker 5: Money AND i knew WHEN i got money THAT i 514 00:33:17,001 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 5: had to use that money as soon AS i got 515 00:33:21,281 --> 00:33:25,601 Speaker 5: that cash or equity and buy my first home and 516 00:33:25,761 --> 00:33:29,041 Speaker 5: use the money if there was a shortfam THAT i 517 00:33:29,201 --> 00:33:33,521 Speaker 5: had Because i'm working to pay interest. Repayments BECAUSE i 518 00:33:33,601 --> 00:33:38,641 Speaker 5: knew through hanging with, PEOPLE i put myself around highly 519 00:33:38,641 --> 00:33:44,481 Speaker 5: intelligent people who were very highly adverse in the property 520 00:33:44,521 --> 00:33:49,641 Speaker 5: industry and the finance. INDUSTRY i intentionally done, it AND 521 00:33:50,081 --> 00:33:54,321 Speaker 5: i would suck them and ask them questions about how 522 00:33:54,361 --> 00:33:59,681 Speaker 5: does property, work what's good, property what's bad? Property what 523 00:33:59,881 --> 00:34:04,041 Speaker 5: do you look for making decisions. 524 00:34:03,561 --> 00:34:07,441 Speaker 1: To pick right? Property where are? They what are? 525 00:34:07,521 --> 00:34:10,721 Speaker 5: Indicators and they would tell me about, markets and they 526 00:34:10,761 --> 00:34:13,801 Speaker 5: would tell me about the worst properties in the best, 527 00:34:13,801 --> 00:34:17,521 Speaker 5: streets and they would tell me about, position, position, position 528 00:34:18,121 --> 00:34:20,201 Speaker 5: and they would tell me about, areas and they would 529 00:34:20,481 --> 00:34:23,521 Speaker 5: tell me about, equity and they'd tell me about how 530 00:34:23,521 --> 00:34:27,761 Speaker 5: they used equity and how they capitalized on. It and 531 00:34:27,881 --> 00:34:30,921 Speaker 5: So i've learned and all the, time you, Know i'm. 532 00:34:31,001 --> 00:34:35,001 Speaker 5: Learning and that's WHAT i did my life after, rehab 533 00:34:35,081 --> 00:34:40,361 Speaker 5: after learning about myself so much in, rehab WHO i 534 00:34:40,641 --> 00:34:44,361 Speaker 5: was and How i'd become the Person i'd, become and 535 00:34:44,401 --> 00:34:47,761 Speaker 5: HOW i got out of it through exactly the same 536 00:34:48,001 --> 00:34:51,881 Speaker 5: principle That i'm talking to, about going deep within my 537 00:34:51,961 --> 00:34:55,201 Speaker 5: soul and asking questions about where does this anger come, 538 00:34:55,241 --> 00:35:00,721 Speaker 5: From where does this hating myself come? From where does 539 00:35:00,801 --> 00:35:04,801 Speaker 5: this low self esteem come? FROM i could go on and, 540 00:35:04,841 --> 00:35:08,281 Speaker 5: on BECAUSE i had a gold miner stuff in there 541 00:35:08,281 --> 00:35:12,281 Speaker 5: to look, at you, know about so called shortcomings or 542 00:35:12,601 --> 00:35:15,881 Speaker 5: things THAT i could improve personally about. 543 00:35:15,881 --> 00:35:19,441 Speaker 2: Myself and you applied the same sort of tenacity in 544 00:35:19,601 --> 00:35:23,321 Speaker 2: drive that you'd applied to crime and taking drugs to 545 00:35:24,361 --> 00:35:27,681 Speaker 2: making a. Fortune AND i believe you went into telemarketing as. 546 00:35:27,681 --> 00:35:30,201 Speaker 2: Well and you've you've been into, stocks and you've been 547 00:35:30,241 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 2: into all kinds of, things and you've not fallen foul 548 00:35:33,561 --> 00:35:34,281 Speaker 2: of the law ever. 549 00:35:34,321 --> 00:35:39,001 Speaker 1: Since, Well i've had my moments with the a triple C. 550 00:35:42,601 --> 00:35:46,201 Speaker 4: Oh, okay what? Happened oh, well. 551 00:35:46,201 --> 00:35:51,681 Speaker 5: They come at me in two thousand and five for 552 00:35:51,881 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 5: allegedly under The Trade practice at. 553 00:35:54,241 --> 00:35:56,241 Speaker 1: Misleading and deceptive behavior and. 554 00:35:56,241 --> 00:36:03,401 Speaker 5: Telemarketing BUT i was doing everything. Legally by, LAW i 555 00:36:03,561 --> 00:36:06,761 Speaker 5: was allowed to do WHAT i was. Doing i've realized 556 00:36:06,801 --> 00:36:10,841 Speaker 5: THAT i found an angle in trading and by law 557 00:36:11,321 --> 00:36:13,441 Speaker 5: there was nothing to say THAT i couldn't do. It 558 00:36:14,121 --> 00:36:16,681 Speaker 5: and they actually had to change the law and State 559 00:36:16,761 --> 00:36:21,681 Speaker 5: parliament In New South wales to close the. Loophole they 560 00:36:21,721 --> 00:36:24,161 Speaker 5: had a crack at me in The Federal, COURT i, 561 00:36:24,281 --> 00:36:25,921 Speaker 5: See and what were your marketing? 562 00:36:26,481 --> 00:36:28,841 Speaker 1: Advertising that would. 563 00:36:28,601 --> 00:36:30,921 Speaker 2: Have been section fifty two of The Trade Practices. Act 564 00:36:31,321 --> 00:36:32,401 Speaker 2: what did they? Say you were. 565 00:36:32,321 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 5: Doing, well misleading and deceiving people in my approach selling advertising. 566 00:36:37,521 --> 00:36:39,521 Speaker 4: Tool so you got through that, break which is? 567 00:36:39,561 --> 00:36:42,001 Speaker 5: Good and when do you SAY i got through that? 568 00:36:42,041 --> 00:36:43,841 Speaker 5: Break it cost me about two million. 569 00:36:43,881 --> 00:36:48,521 Speaker 2: Dollars, Okay, well you're in a different kind of blood 570 00:36:48,561 --> 00:36:51,201 Speaker 2: sport at that end of, town and it does cost 571 00:36:51,201 --> 00:36:53,401 Speaker 2: a lot of, money but the stakes are much. Higher, 572 00:36:54,081 --> 00:36:57,641 Speaker 2: yeah but these days you're pretty much. Untouchable you've a master. 573 00:36:57,761 --> 00:37:00,921 Speaker 2: Fortune you're living In, CAMBODIA i believe or moving Around. 574 00:37:00,961 --> 00:37:02,761 Speaker 1: ASIA i just travel around the. 575 00:37:02,761 --> 00:37:06,761 Speaker 2: World, yeah and you found, Love, dean because one of 576 00:37:06,761 --> 00:37:10,321 Speaker 2: the things that crooks really struggle with is forming. Relationships 577 00:37:10,841 --> 00:37:13,881 Speaker 2: they look at love, suspiciously they look at people around them, 578 00:37:13,921 --> 00:37:17,481 Speaker 2: suspiciously and it's often very difficult for them to maintain 579 00:37:17,561 --> 00:37:20,721 Speaker 2: long term relationships that aren't related to crime or. 580 00:37:20,801 --> 00:37:21,681 Speaker 4: Drugs have you gone with? 581 00:37:21,721 --> 00:37:26,121 Speaker 1: That, yeah train, wreck you're, Right i'm. 582 00:37:26,201 --> 00:37:30,641 Speaker 5: Hopeless i'm still so emotionally scarred from that, experience SO 583 00:37:30,841 --> 00:37:33,921 Speaker 5: i don't Think i'll ever get over. It i'm sixty one, 584 00:37:34,041 --> 00:37:39,561 Speaker 5: Now i'm still very untrustworthy AND i struggle to get 585 00:37:39,601 --> 00:37:45,681 Speaker 5: intimate without getting petrified, still even Though i've done so much. 586 00:37:45,801 --> 00:37:49,361 Speaker 5: Change but you're one hundred percent right at. Them i'm 587 00:37:49,401 --> 00:37:52,201 Speaker 5: a TRAIN i can't do, it And i've never met 588 00:37:52,241 --> 00:37:54,401 Speaker 5: anybody that could ever help me with. 589 00:37:54,441 --> 00:37:58,401 Speaker 2: That, well you can't be good at, Everything. Dean you're 590 00:37:58,441 --> 00:38:02,081 Speaker 2: good at, crime you're good at taking, drugs you're good 591 00:38:02,081 --> 00:38:04,201 Speaker 2: at making. Money that's. 592 00:38:04,281 --> 00:38:06,201 Speaker 1: Right, yeah that's so. 593 00:38:06,401 --> 00:38:10,481 Speaker 5: True, yeah and you know what if that's my achilles, heill, 594 00:38:11,041 --> 00:38:14,081 Speaker 5: Mate i'm very happy to have, that you, know to 595 00:38:14,161 --> 00:38:16,801 Speaker 5: tell you the, Truth, Like, YEAH i. 596 00:38:16,721 --> 00:38:19,241 Speaker 2: Think one of the hardest Things i've discovered talking to 597 00:38:19,281 --> 00:38:23,321 Speaker 2: people who've been in this, space is finding something they 598 00:38:23,361 --> 00:38:28,241 Speaker 2: can call joy after, drugs after, crime the adrenaline of, 599 00:38:28,281 --> 00:38:34,121 Speaker 2: crime the highs of. Drugs do you sometimes hark back 600 00:38:34,121 --> 00:38:37,801 Speaker 2: to those days and Think i'm unable to find that. 601 00:38:38,041 --> 00:38:42,761 Speaker 5: Joy i've got that in business and making, Money SO 602 00:38:43,121 --> 00:38:46,121 Speaker 5: i really just substituted for the business. World you, know 603 00:38:46,321 --> 00:38:52,201 Speaker 5: like when you're making millions and millions of dollars and 604 00:38:52,481 --> 00:38:56,681 Speaker 5: you have the freedom to. 605 00:38:55,201 --> 00:38:58,201 Speaker 1: Buy anything you, want travel anywhere. 606 00:38:57,881 --> 00:39:03,041 Speaker 5: In the, world business first, class have any, choice you 607 00:39:03,161 --> 00:39:04,921 Speaker 5: want to live. 608 00:39:05,081 --> 00:39:07,681 Speaker 1: Anywhere there's a lot of reward in. 609 00:39:07,721 --> 00:39:14,001 Speaker 5: That but to actually do, it that's another. Story and 610 00:39:14,721 --> 00:39:18,601 Speaker 5: it takes a lot of. Tenacity it takes a lot 611 00:39:18,641 --> 00:39:23,481 Speaker 5: of on edge, stuff a lot of, uncertainty a lot of, 612 00:39:23,561 --> 00:39:25,321 Speaker 5: doubt a lot. 613 00:39:25,161 --> 00:39:28,321 Speaker 1: Of AM i going to pull this? Off How i'm 614 00:39:28,321 --> 00:39:29,041 Speaker 1: going to lose? 615 00:39:29,121 --> 00:39:34,521 Speaker 5: This so as far as that excitement is, CONCERNED i 616 00:39:34,561 --> 00:39:37,281 Speaker 5: get that still all the time in the choices and 617 00:39:37,321 --> 00:39:41,121 Speaker 5: the decisions and the ACTIONS i do making, money AND 618 00:39:41,201 --> 00:39:41,561 Speaker 5: i love. 619 00:39:41,601 --> 00:39:44,801 Speaker 1: IT i love being the PERSON i. 620 00:39:44,841 --> 00:39:49,161 Speaker 5: Am as far as business and playing in, IT i 621 00:39:49,281 --> 00:39:52,841 Speaker 5: look at it as a. Game i've realized that Because 622 00:39:52,841 --> 00:39:58,801 Speaker 5: i'm so good with psychology and emotional. UNDERSTANDING i know, 623 00:39:59,041 --> 00:40:04,361 Speaker 5: fear AND i know, sabotage AND i know worry and, 624 00:40:05,121 --> 00:40:08,561 Speaker 5: certainty AND i know risk, taking AND i know, courage 625 00:40:08,601 --> 00:40:12,841 Speaker 5: AND i know, determination AND i know how to be 626 00:40:13,001 --> 00:40:16,401 Speaker 5: out on a limb and sit there for a long 627 00:40:16,521 --> 00:40:20,521 Speaker 5: time where other people just freak out and they can't 628 00:40:20,561 --> 00:40:24,161 Speaker 5: handle the uncertainty of it or the, doubt AND i 629 00:40:24,321 --> 00:40:27,161 Speaker 5: just thrive on. It and there's great rewards in that, 630 00:40:27,281 --> 00:40:32,761 Speaker 5: shit you, know great rewards if you're business, minded or 631 00:40:32,801 --> 00:40:36,761 Speaker 5: if you've got the business acumen to back that, up 632 00:40:37,041 --> 00:40:39,841 Speaker 5: and over a long period of time of getting a 633 00:40:39,841 --> 00:40:46,161 Speaker 5: lot of things, wrong if you're motivated to become successful 634 00:40:46,201 --> 00:40:52,801 Speaker 5: in any kind of business livelihood or to be successful 635 00:40:53,001 --> 00:40:56,841 Speaker 5: in the business sextor or the business. World that's all in. 636 00:40:56,881 --> 00:41:00,401 Speaker 5: There so that's WHERE i get my. 637 00:40:59,721 --> 00:41:04,521 Speaker 1: Rocks, off you, know. Good and there's a couple other things. 638 00:41:05,161 --> 00:41:05,441 Speaker 2: You want to. 639 00:41:05,441 --> 00:41:05,961 Speaker 4: Elaborate. 640 00:41:06,641 --> 00:41:11,361 Speaker 5: WELL i like to be close to my loved ones 641 00:41:11,441 --> 00:41:15,321 Speaker 5: and have fun with. THEM i get off with me 642 00:41:15,481 --> 00:41:19,441 Speaker 5: mates and doing things and having a good time and 643 00:41:19,481 --> 00:41:23,281 Speaker 5: going out for dinners and having laughs and go on 644 00:41:23,681 --> 00:41:27,601 Speaker 5: places with. Them AND i haven't relationships with. PEOPLE i 645 00:41:27,721 --> 00:41:31,961 Speaker 5: find that highly. STIMULATING i like. 646 00:41:32,121 --> 00:41:35,081 Speaker 4: People, yeah you've learned to do. 647 00:41:35,121 --> 00:41:37,481 Speaker 2: THAT i think one thing in the criminal world and 648 00:41:37,521 --> 00:41:40,121 Speaker 2: also in the drug world as, well people do learn 649 00:41:40,201 --> 00:41:45,641 Speaker 2: to deal with decisions and dilemmas because their world is 650 00:41:45,721 --> 00:41:48,521 Speaker 2: full of. Them and you make the wrong, decision you're 651 00:41:48,561 --> 00:41:50,761 Speaker 2: going to pay for. It and often these choices are not. 652 00:41:50,841 --> 00:41:53,881 Speaker 2: Clear it's the rock and hard placed. Choices And i'm 653 00:41:53,881 --> 00:41:58,081 Speaker 2: sure that's helped you in business to turn that ruthlessness 654 00:41:58,641 --> 00:42:00,201 Speaker 2: where you've been in jail and it's. 655 00:42:00,161 --> 00:42:01,401 Speaker 4: Get someone before they get. 656 00:42:01,481 --> 00:42:05,601 Speaker 2: You it's take decisions fearlessly when you don't know all 657 00:42:05,681 --> 00:42:08,921 Speaker 2: the information or the. Outcomes do you think that was 658 00:42:08,961 --> 00:42:11,761 Speaker 2: in your personality all? Along and you wonder what you 659 00:42:11,841 --> 00:42:14,001 Speaker 2: might have achieved had you not spent decade and a 660 00:42:14,041 --> 00:42:14,761 Speaker 2: half as a? 661 00:42:14,801 --> 00:42:21,481 Speaker 5: Crook, well WHAT i have achieved irrespectively is still. Phenomenal 662 00:42:22,401 --> 00:42:24,801 Speaker 5: that was just a training ground for. It you, Know 663 00:42:25,721 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 5: i've been at this now SINCE i was twenty. Eight 664 00:42:29,441 --> 00:42:36,441 Speaker 5: i've achieved remarkable, Things Like i've had a life many 665 00:42:36,521 --> 00:42:41,321 Speaker 5: people dream of. Having i've had a LIFE i still 666 00:42:41,441 --> 00:42:45,041 Speaker 5: pinch myself, About like there's not a day that goes 667 00:42:45,121 --> 00:42:51,001 Speaker 5: by THAT i still look around me and go have. 668 00:42:50,881 --> 00:42:55,401 Speaker 1: A fucking look at. You look where you've, been like 669 00:42:55,601 --> 00:42:55,881 Speaker 1: you're In. 670 00:42:55,961 --> 00:43:00,921 Speaker 5: Cambodia AND i think it's gratitude To, adam you, know and. 671 00:43:01,041 --> 00:43:08,561 Speaker 5: APPRECIATION i remember WHEN i changed in eighty nine AND 672 00:43:08,641 --> 00:43:10,681 Speaker 5: i had to go back to court for a hundred 673 00:43:10,841 --> 00:43:14,921 Speaker 5: charges after six months out of. REHAB i went back 674 00:43:14,921 --> 00:43:19,041 Speaker 5: to court for those charges AND i fronted a judge 675 00:43:19,081 --> 00:43:24,321 Speaker 5: Called judge McGuire in the District court In. Brisbane and 676 00:43:24,401 --> 00:43:27,361 Speaker 5: before we went into, COURT i went to see my 677 00:43:27,521 --> 00:43:31,201 Speaker 5: barrister and we sat there for an hour and a 678 00:43:31,321 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 5: half and. 679 00:43:31,921 --> 00:43:34,641 Speaker 1: He, said tell me why you shouldn't go back into. 680 00:43:34,761 --> 00:43:38,721 Speaker 5: Jail AND i went over the whole, story what happened to, me, 681 00:43:39,321 --> 00:43:42,081 Speaker 5: rehab blah blah, blah my native and he just. 682 00:43:42,041 --> 00:43:44,601 Speaker 1: Sat there and he. Listened that's all he. Did he just. 683 00:43:44,721 --> 00:43:48,121 Speaker 5: Listened and after an hour and a half he, said 684 00:43:48,841 --> 00:43:52,361 Speaker 5: do you know how many People dean have sat in 685 00:43:52,401 --> 00:43:58,041 Speaker 5: that chair and told me the reason why they shouldn't 686 00:43:58,041 --> 00:44:00,761 Speaker 5: go back to. JAIL i, said you would have had. 687 00:44:00,881 --> 00:44:06,521 Speaker 5: Hundreds he, said, YEAH i. Have BUT i believe. You 688 00:44:07,921 --> 00:44:10,281 Speaker 5: AND i, SAID i don't care if you believe me or. 689 00:44:10,321 --> 00:44:15,161 Speaker 1: Not it's. Truth i'm done with. IT i see what an. 690 00:44:15,201 --> 00:44:20,281 Speaker 5: Asshole i've BEEN i see everything, NOW i See i've created. 691 00:44:20,321 --> 00:44:25,001 Speaker 5: It all these actions have been a direct result of 692 00:44:25,001 --> 00:44:28,201 Speaker 5: the consequences of my. LIFE i don't care, NOW i, 693 00:44:28,241 --> 00:44:31,521 Speaker 5: said even if he sends me back to, Jail i'm 694 00:44:31,561 --> 00:44:33,761 Speaker 5: going to come through And i'll get out And i'll 695 00:44:33,761 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 5: go back to that reap And i'll finish it. 696 00:44:36,601 --> 00:44:39,681 Speaker 1: And Then i'll get out And i'll move on and 697 00:44:41,201 --> 00:44:41,761 Speaker 1: we get into. 698 00:44:41,881 --> 00:44:45,921 Speaker 5: Court fuck me. Dead you should have seen the way 699 00:44:46,001 --> 00:44:50,521 Speaker 5: this blake represented. ME i inside had nothing on this bloke. 700 00:44:50,681 --> 00:44:55,441 Speaker 5: Seriously and the judge pulled him up halfway through the 701 00:44:55,481 --> 00:44:58,561 Speaker 5: summon up AND i forget That barris's, name and he, 702 00:44:58,601 --> 00:45:03,161 Speaker 5: said you're not asking for a non custodial sentence for this. 703 00:45:03,281 --> 00:45:07,601 Speaker 5: Man and he, SAID i am your honor because it 704 00:45:07,681 --> 00:45:11,761 Speaker 5: will not pay society one bit if you send him 705 00:45:11,761 --> 00:45:17,881 Speaker 5: back into. Prison And maguire turned around and Said i've heard. 706 00:45:18,001 --> 00:45:22,841 Speaker 5: Enough sit down to, him and then he, said stand, 707 00:45:22,961 --> 00:45:27,081 Speaker 5: up mister, king AND i stood, up and he, said 708 00:45:27,801 --> 00:45:33,281 Speaker 5: if your change is as true and passionate as that 709 00:45:33,521 --> 00:45:37,681 Speaker 5: man has just delivered to, me he, said you will 710 00:45:37,761 --> 00:45:43,281 Speaker 5: know now that there is consequences for one's, actions and 711 00:45:43,361 --> 00:45:48,681 Speaker 5: you will pay the consequences for your past, actions and 712 00:45:48,721 --> 00:45:53,761 Speaker 5: you will then come back out of prism and continue 713 00:45:53,801 --> 00:45:58,161 Speaker 5: on with this accountability and living as a decent member 714 00:45:58,161 --> 00:45:58,481 Speaker 5: in our. 715 00:45:58,561 --> 00:46:00,121 Speaker 1: Society he, Said the. 716 00:46:00,121 --> 00:46:04,041 Speaker 5: Question, arises how long DO i send you back? For 717 00:46:05,441 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 5: so the prosecution was asking for eight. Years he gave 718 00:46:09,481 --> 00:46:14,601 Speaker 5: me three years with a twelve month. Recommendation based on, 719 00:46:14,761 --> 00:46:19,081 Speaker 5: THAT i had to go back in and THEN i 720 00:46:19,081 --> 00:46:21,281 Speaker 5: had to go back around all those blokes that knew 721 00:46:21,321 --> 00:46:25,721 Speaker 5: me HOW i was in the, past and THEN i came, 722 00:46:25,801 --> 00:46:28,881 Speaker 5: out went back to that fucking rehab on my own, 723 00:46:28,921 --> 00:46:32,961 Speaker 5: accord finished the, program and then. 724 00:46:32,841 --> 00:46:33,881 Speaker 1: Continued on from. 725 00:46:33,921 --> 00:46:39,641 Speaker 5: There SO i know about, ADVERSITY i know about, CHALLENGES 726 00:46:39,721 --> 00:46:40,401 Speaker 5: i know about. 727 00:46:40,521 --> 00:46:44,721 Speaker 1: Setbacks it's just all part. 728 00:46:44,361 --> 00:46:51,161 Speaker 5: Of taking that responsibility and owning your part as a 729 00:46:51,281 --> 00:46:54,801 Speaker 5: human being in society because we've all got to live 730 00:46:54,881 --> 00:46:55,841 Speaker 5: together out, here you. 731 00:46:55,841 --> 00:46:59,841 Speaker 1: Know so, YEAH i still pinched, myself and. 732 00:46:59,961 --> 00:47:03,561 Speaker 5: WHEN i got out of, JAIL i had no money. 733 00:47:03,721 --> 00:47:06,921 Speaker 5: MADE i had, NOTHING i think WHEN i left freehab 734 00:47:07,041 --> 00:47:12,481 Speaker 5: and got out after that prison. Sentence but knowing that 735 00:47:13,201 --> 00:47:16,601 Speaker 5: from THERE i was never going to look through bars 736 00:47:16,641 --> 00:47:21,281 Speaker 5: again because of my cognitive state and how MUCH i, 737 00:47:21,441 --> 00:47:26,121 Speaker 5: changed that was enough of Me. Adam everything after that's 738 00:47:26,161 --> 00:47:30,561 Speaker 5: been a. Bonus so even thirty five years down the, 739 00:47:30,601 --> 00:47:32,641 Speaker 5: Track i'm still. 740 00:47:32,361 --> 00:47:33,681 Speaker 1: Going i'm not in. 741 00:47:33,801 --> 00:47:40,601 Speaker 5: Jail i'm still grateful for. That so that's a beautiful 742 00:47:40,641 --> 00:47:40,921 Speaker 5: thing to. 743 00:47:41,041 --> 00:47:43,201 Speaker 4: Have it. 744 00:47:43,281 --> 00:47:46,281 Speaker 2: Is and tell, me if you have one piece of 745 00:47:46,321 --> 00:47:50,841 Speaker 2: advice for a young, person even an older person who's 746 00:47:50,881 --> 00:47:53,601 Speaker 2: on that merry go round of custody and crime and, 747 00:47:53,681 --> 00:47:56,681 Speaker 2: drugs what's that piece of advice you'd give, Them. 748 00:47:57,481 --> 00:48:00,241 Speaker 1: Have a good honest look at. Yourself that's. 749 00:48:00,281 --> 00:48:02,681 Speaker 4: IT i think it sums it. 750 00:48:02,761 --> 00:48:04,681 Speaker 2: Up AND i think that story you told at the 751 00:48:04,721 --> 00:48:09,361 Speaker 2: outset set of all the, anger all the, frustration all 752 00:48:09,401 --> 00:48:12,641 Speaker 2: the self loathing that was inside you that you had 753 00:48:12,761 --> 00:48:16,440 Speaker 2: walled yourself, into when you beat that tree and tried 754 00:48:16,481 --> 00:48:18,521 Speaker 2: to beat the cow and chase the farmer and he's 755 00:48:18,561 --> 00:48:21,281 Speaker 2: truck the whole, thing that was that moment of. 756 00:48:21,281 --> 00:48:26,161 Speaker 1: Clarity, yeah it. Was And i'm in the. 757 00:48:26,201 --> 00:48:29,601 Speaker 5: Process i've been working on it now for six years 758 00:48:29,921 --> 00:48:32,681 Speaker 5: with another company to get it into a, movie you. 759 00:48:32,721 --> 00:48:37,521 Speaker 5: Know so we're just about to do a development application 760 00:48:38,121 --> 00:48:43,601 Speaker 5: to Screen coeensland to get development. Funding to start the development. 761 00:48:43,641 --> 00:48:49,281 Speaker 5: Funding i've got a very reputable company in my. Corner 762 00:48:49,401 --> 00:48:51,561 Speaker 5: i'm a very close friend with the Director. 763 00:48:51,721 --> 00:48:55,481 Speaker 1: Surge we're going to make this. HAPPEN i have. 764 00:48:55,481 --> 00:48:57,441 Speaker 2: No doubt that you, Will den because that's the kind 765 00:48:57,481 --> 00:48:59,481 Speaker 2: of person that you've. Become, listen we could go on 766 00:48:59,521 --> 00:49:01,801 Speaker 2: for hours with, this BUT i think we've covered everything 767 00:49:02,041 --> 00:49:04,721 Speaker 2: THAT i think is relevant to your, story AND i 768 00:49:04,801 --> 00:49:07,721 Speaker 2: really do thank you for sharing it with us. Today 769 00:49:08,401 --> 00:49:10,881 Speaker 2: AND i think of all the loss and heartache and 770 00:49:11,001 --> 00:49:14,761 Speaker 2: misery That i've known, people not just in my crime writing, 771 00:49:14,801 --> 00:49:17,761 Speaker 2: career but in my youth In, sydney where people were 772 00:49:17,761 --> 00:49:20,481 Speaker 2: hooked by heroin and never let them. Go you're one 773 00:49:20,481 --> 00:49:24,121 Speaker 2: of the lucky. Ones do you feel lucky? STILL i Am. 774 00:49:24,321 --> 00:49:27,801 Speaker 5: Adam that's all it, is, Brother that's all it, is. 775 00:49:27,881 --> 00:49:34,241 Speaker 5: MATE i am. Lucky i've never known anybody that has 776 00:49:34,281 --> 00:49:35,041 Speaker 5: had so much. 777 00:49:35,121 --> 00:49:39,001 Speaker 1: Luck it's. TRUE i am just very. Fortunate. 778 00:49:39,081 --> 00:49:40,161 Speaker 4: Mate good on. 779 00:49:40,241 --> 00:49:43,441 Speaker 2: You, well, Mate i'll watch this space with interest to 780 00:49:43,441 --> 00:49:46,841 Speaker 2: see how your film. Goes and i'd certainly advise everyone 781 00:49:46,921 --> 00:49:50,161 Speaker 2: to have a read Of dean's, Book King. Hit i'll 782 00:49:50,161 --> 00:49:52,641 Speaker 2: put the details where you can download that book in 783 00:49:52,681 --> 00:49:55,241 Speaker 2: the show. Notes But Dean, thing thank you so much 784 00:49:55,241 --> 00:49:56,961 Speaker 2: for your time today On Real. 785 00:49:57,041 --> 00:49:58,721 Speaker 4: Crime Adam, sham thank. 786 00:49:58,561 --> 00:50:01,041 Speaker 5: You, adam and take care. Mate thanks very much for 787 00:50:01,081 --> 00:50:02,641 Speaker 5: having me. BROTHER i really appreciate. 788 00:50:02,721 --> 00:50:10,481 Speaker 2: It absolute. Pleasure That's Dean king. There it is an amazing. 789 00:50:10,521 --> 00:50:12,801 Speaker 2: Story AND i think anyone out there who's struggling with, 790 00:50:12,801 --> 00:50:16,241 Speaker 2: addictions struggling with, crimes, also anybody who feels they can't 791 00:50:16,321 --> 00:50:19,601 Speaker 2: Change dean is. Lucky but you also make your own 792 00:50:19,721 --> 00:50:24,161 Speaker 2: luck when you dedicate yourself to looking in that, mirror 793 00:50:24,561 --> 00:50:28,361 Speaker 2: having those hard conversations and getting on with. It oh, 794 00:50:28,441 --> 00:50:31,401 Speaker 2: BOY i Think dean's story is all about that and more. 795 00:50:32,041 --> 00:50:33,321 Speaker 4: So have a look at that. 796 00:50:33,361 --> 00:50:35,881 Speaker 2: Book if anybody's got a story to share with, me 797 00:50:35,961 --> 00:50:38,361 Speaker 2: please get in. Touch you can send me an email 798 00:50:38,401 --> 00:50:41,561 Speaker 2: At Adam shann writer at gmail dot. Com if you've 799 00:50:41,561 --> 00:50:43,321 Speaker 2: got a crime you want to, report you can also 800 00:50:43,681 --> 00:50:44,801 Speaker 2: go to crime stopers wanted to. 801 00:50:44,801 --> 00:50:45,961 Speaker 4: Hundred triple, Three triple. 802 00:50:46,081 --> 00:50:48,041 Speaker 2: Zero you might not trust the, cops so you can 803 00:50:48,121 --> 00:50:50,641 Speaker 2: email me as. Well But i'd like you to subscribe 804 00:50:50,681 --> 00:50:53,001 Speaker 2: to the, show share with your, friends even your. Enemies 805 00:50:53,201 --> 00:50:55,561 Speaker 2: i'm very happy to hear from all of. You it's 806 00:50:55,601 --> 00:50:58,441 Speaker 2: been an absolute pleasure talking With dean. Today this has been 807 00:50:58,441 --> 00:51:00,401 Speaker 2: out Of Shaffey real. Crimet thanks for. Listening