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Speaker 1: It was my pleasure to have in the studio man

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Speaker 1: by the name of Danny Gillies. Danny is a scriptwriter

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Speaker 1: or a playwriter, and he's written at least one other play

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Speaker 1: that I know of, on the life of Stuart John

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Speaker 1: McDowell Stewart, who was the man who trecked off from

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Speaker 1: a number of times, in fact six or maybe even

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Speaker 1: seven from Adelaide to try and cross the continent from

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Speaker 1: Adelaide to Darwin what became Darwin and back. And after

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Speaker 1: five or six failed attempts where he got halfway or

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Speaker 1: beyond halfway and had to turn around, he finally made it.

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Speaker 1: And that paved the path for the telegraph when it

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Speaker 1: came and brought news to Adelaide. Danny, good evening to you. Welcome,

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Speaker 1: good evening.

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Speaker 2: Matt.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about that John mcdull Stewart. Why was he

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Speaker 1: an inspiration? Well, he was an old drunk, wasn't he.

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Speaker 2: Well, when he was in town he's a drunk, but

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Speaker 2: not out in the field.

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Speaker 1: He was.

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Speaker 2: One of a kind. You know. We had Burke and Wills. Yes,

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Speaker 2: we always hear about them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah we do. I need because it was so tragic,

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Speaker 1: I suppose.

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Speaker 2: And that's the problem. Stuart didn't fail, so we didn't

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Speaker 2: talk about him. We seemed to like failures in this country.

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Speaker 2: But no, what a great story. And I used to

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Speaker 2: be a tour guide up in Central Australia, right and

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Speaker 2: I cross his paths. Yeah, through the McDonald Range is

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Speaker 2: Tea named after the governor of South Australia. So I

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Speaker 2: was fascinated that how the hell did this man, or

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Speaker 2: these men and these horses do what they did because

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Speaker 2: when you look at that country in summer, it's brutal

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Speaker 2: and there's no surface water.

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Speaker 1: And I think it took him a year and a half,

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Speaker 1: didn't it when he finally did it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he had many attempts. He was attacked north

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Speaker 2: of Tenant Creek. There's a creek there people who may

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Speaker 2: have been up to the territory you actually cross. It's

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Speaker 2: called Attack Creek.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, So I thought this is going to be

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Speaker 1: a good story. Yeah, you know, well I think it

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Speaker 1: would be. I haven't seen that play or you know,

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Speaker 1: I've only read about his life, but it does sound

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Speaker 1: really interesting. And the fact he would say determined to

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Speaker 1: do it and ultimately died relatively obscure, and he did

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Speaker 1: the home country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, died alone in England, you know. Yeah, he was

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Speaker 2: a drinker, but out in the field, men keep men

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Speaker 2: keep caming, kept coming back to go with him, which

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Speaker 2: is a sign of a great leader. So that's I

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Speaker 2: enjoyed that. And we did thirteen performances of that plaque.

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Speaker 2: And I never intended of playing the role of Stewart.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you did? Did I do it?

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Speaker 2: I did it out of necessity. I had a guy

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Speaker 2: in Alice Springs who was Scottish, which seemed to make sense,

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Speaker 2: and he he sort of I think he got cold

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Speaker 2: feet right when he discovered that it's an over six

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Speaker 2: thousand words script. There's a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 2: stuff to remember.

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Speaker 1: If you write it, you'd know what the words are, right,

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Speaker 1: So that's got to help, all right. So let's backtrack

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Tour guide, is that where you're from

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Speaker 1: or you're Alice Springs? Boy, you just worked up there

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Speaker 1: and then fell in love with the place, obviously to

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Speaker 1: write some plays about it.

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Speaker 2: Yes. No, I was born in Adelaide and I moved

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Speaker 2: up there in god nineteen ninety seven, and I go

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Speaker 2: back every three months. As you know, I'm going back

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Speaker 2: on Saturday. So a large part of my life there

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Speaker 2: was a tour guide and a big part of my

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Speaker 2: life in the center, I befriended a lot of Aboriginal people. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: in particularly of the world pre people who live out

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Speaker 2: in the Tanami region of Central Australia.

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Speaker 1: Is that far out of alice hown Well Willow.

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Speaker 2: Is the community I'm talking about.

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Speaker 1: It's about four and a half hour Okay, that's the

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Speaker 1: fair drive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're very remote. And this new play is

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Speaker 2: partially my experiences with those people.

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Speaker 1: Now, what's the call. You've got at least a working title.

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Speaker 1: It may be it's ultimate title. Tell us about it.

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Speaker 2: The titles in Walprix, which is the dialect of Central

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Speaker 2: Australia and all that area, it's called Gaddia the Protector.

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Speaker 2: What in Walpury means good, Gadia means white man. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so this Karen Good white man and the protector. Protectors

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Speaker 2: were government officials if you liked that, oversaw Aboriginal people's

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Speaker 2: lives and liais with station people and so on.

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Speaker 1: We had one here in Adelaide early on, didn't we

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Speaker 1: in the in the from the very first day, I believe.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of it did originate from Adelaide. This

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Speaker 2: is set in eighteen eighty eight. It's it's a fictional story,

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Speaker 2: but based a lot on my own experiences and based

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Speaker 2: a lot on the actual history of this country, which

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Speaker 2: we should all know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, okay, your own experiences and living up there

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Speaker 1: and knowing the people. That obviously helps. But where's the

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Speaker 1: motivation come from to write six thousand word plays on?

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Speaker 1: Stewart isn't an incidental person. He's quite significant to the

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Speaker 1: development of the country and the opening up of the

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Speaker 1: country in terms of communications back in the day. I

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Speaker 1: mean that was the internet, the telegraph. So but this

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Speaker 1: sounds a little bit more niche Yes, this one's actually

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Speaker 1: close to eight thousand wells, oh my goodness.

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Speaker 2: And it's just after the referendum. I felt a bit

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Speaker 2: conflicted and people I spoke to, you know, let's say,

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Speaker 2: no voters felt that they were being blamed for something

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Speaker 2: they never did. And I thought, I understand that, you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe someone did say that to him. I never looked

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Speaker 2: at that way, and I thought, how can I show

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Speaker 2: another side? And I thought, Chual Gutty a good white man,

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Speaker 2: straight away says it that he was a good white man.

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Speaker 2: This guy the character's name is John Roberts. Tried to

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Speaker 2: do his best to work with the station people, but

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Speaker 2: also had empathy for the Aboriginal people because there was

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Speaker 2: a conflict of cultures. So that's where my inspiration came from.

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Speaker 1: Protectors, Were they good white men? Because I think for

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Speaker 1: all of us looking back, there's an excellent example in

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Speaker 1: Rabbit Proofence portrayed by Kenneth Branner of a protector who

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Speaker 1: was well intentioned, but you could see just how disastrous

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Speaker 1: in general a policy of separating children from families was

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Speaker 1: brilliantly portrayed in that film.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's a good example. I always said, not everyone

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Speaker 2: is bad. You know that that film showed him as

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Speaker 2: if he was cold blood.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't he was cold. Yeah, but they probably all were.

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Speaker 1: I mean at the end of the day, like people

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Speaker 1: of that era were following instructions to the letter yes.

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Speaker 2: But that was where my in the yes vote came

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Speaker 2: that well, not everyone was because someone said yes. So

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Speaker 2: this guy, John Roberts maybe was the genesis of for

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Speaker 2: me anyway, someone who tried to see good in everyone.

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Speaker 2: And this character I've made him as is quite religious

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Speaker 2: in the true sense of the word. All men are

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Speaker 2: created equal. Some people use religion to their advantage.

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Speaker 1: But this guy was everyone's equal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a line in the play that I've I've

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Speaker 2: become exactly what I have set out to be, and

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Speaker 2: that is someone who is here to help these people

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Speaker 2: because he can't stop the the influx of settlers into

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Speaker 2: the Central Australia. What happened and if anyone knows the history,

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Speaker 2: there's some pretty pretty nasty things that took place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, and littered through different states, different massacres, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. Saying all right, now have you got someone?

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Speaker 1: Is it a one man play? Well, no, okay, it's

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Speaker 1: a monologue.

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Speaker 2: It has the main character, which is John Robertson, and

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Speaker 2: he's from Glasgow but grew up in London, and he

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Speaker 2: came to Australia and around eighteen seventy and then followed

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Speaker 2: the Telegraph why central Australia and then beyond. And so

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Speaker 2: I haven't got anyone to play him. And few people said, well, Danny,

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Speaker 2: you played Stuart, why don't you play I said no,

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Speaker 2: it was hard enough doing Stuart. So tonight is the

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Speaker 2: genesis of me going to the next stage of there's

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Speaker 2: theaters in town here, Holden Street and others. I'm going

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Speaker 2: to try and reach out to people. I have my

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Speaker 2: Woldprey family in Central Australia who will assist me and

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Speaker 2: have been assisting me, and that's going to be a

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Speaker 2: beautiful element on the stage. And a big part of

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Speaker 2: it too is imagery, and so that's another that's a

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Speaker 2: technical world. I don't know anything about it. I have

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Speaker 2: a friend in Central Australia.

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Speaker 1: So backdrops, you mean backdrops so at.

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Speaker 2: The end of dialogue, you know, the character would fade

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Speaker 2: out after saying something profound and then these beautiful images

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Speaker 2: similar to that I've bought Edwin Spencer who went to

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Speaker 2: the Center and in the late eighteen hundreds and took

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Speaker 2: these amazing photographs of Aboriginal people. I want to recreate those,

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Speaker 2: but in the modern sense. And I have a friend

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Speaker 2: in Alice John Henshew's a brilliant photographer and we've talked

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Speaker 2: about with Stuart to go out and into the community

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Speaker 2: with the friends and family and recreate beautiful photographs that

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Speaker 2: we can then use in the performance.

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Speaker 1: Right all right, So that's next. So getting getting it,

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Speaker 1: You've written it, and now it's getting it cast and

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Speaker 1: whatever else getting.

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Speaker 2: I was writing today and I can have a thousand words. Well,

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Speaker 2: I gotta saw neck. I don't sit in front of

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Speaker 2: a computer, but I thought of this thing. Even da Vinci,

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Speaker 2: Leonardo da Vinci, would have to put the chisel down

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Speaker 2: sooner or later. Yes, I just can't keep banging away.

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Speaker 2: It's one dimension now on the page, and the next

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Speaker 2: stage will be there's two dimensions, and so on until

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Speaker 2: you have a character standing there before you reading lines.

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Speaker 1: And it must be an interesting process as a writer

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Speaker 1: to move through those stages. That would be quite you know,

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Speaker 1: for your own peace of mind. I suppose you'd be

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Speaker 1: envisaging it in the settings in your mind's eye and

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Speaker 1: then trying to make that a reality.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, but it can be what's the word overwhelming?

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Speaker 2: Some days you write stuff and you think in the

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Speaker 2: morning that's that's great. In the afternoon it's rubbish, and

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Speaker 2: you've got to remind yourself, well, wait a minute, in

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Speaker 2: the morning, it was good. And with dialogue you can

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Speaker 2: say it ten different ways. But the way I want

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Speaker 2: this to come across, it's very dramatic. It's very emotional.

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Speaker 2: This man, this character is literally breaking down, you know,

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Speaker 2: he has a breakdown, and do.

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Speaker 1: You think is it reminiscent of what actually happened to people?

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Speaker 1: You know? Is there nonfiction in that?

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Speaker 2: There? Probably is, because anyone who goes to remote areas

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Speaker 2: for long periods of time things can happen. And for

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Speaker 2: me personally in the territory, I had emotional times, you know,

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Speaker 2: I saw things that really stuck with me. So I've

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Speaker 2: used that in the riot because I love drama, I

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Speaker 2: love theater, I love emotion, and I love especially beautiful

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Speaker 2: theater when people are stopped in their tracks. And that's

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Speaker 2: what I'm trying to do with is to create a

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Speaker 2: beautiful piece of art. And after doing the Stewart play,

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Speaker 2: experienced that in certain situations.

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Speaker 1: Have you written other plays?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: This is second second month, and he got more in mind.

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Speaker 2: It was funny today I thought of one. I know

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Speaker 2: a guy at Morvattville Race Course. He's a horse trainer

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Speaker 2: and some days he's happy, some days he's not because

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Speaker 2: because of the nags he this is this one came

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Speaker 2: third in Mount Gambi the other day, Danny, and you

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Speaker 2: know he's uplift some days it's because he's a trainer. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so he has to and I thought that don't make

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Speaker 2: a great stage show. I don't know, there's always things

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Speaker 2: popping in, but.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's a story, and everything isn't there. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: that's what you make. How you stretch it out to

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Speaker 1: be an hour and a half or whatever there is.

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Speaker 2: But this story is I've lived it, you know. I know.

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Speaker 2: I've had so many special experiences with Aboriginal people, not

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Speaker 2: only in Alice here Inland. I was so lucky years

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Speaker 2: ago to befriend Goldpolo and I had some beautiful experiences

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Speaker 2: with him in Raymond, Guinea, in anam Land, with him

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Speaker 2: here at the Adelaide Festival when he did his one

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Speaker 2: man play called Gopolo. We traveled to Broom together.

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Speaker 1: He was treated like God, he's passed away now he's.

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Speaker 2: A beautiful man. And Matt he was in ramiginning once

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Speaker 2: and I got it excited because they were talking about

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Speaker 2: making a movie called Ten Canoes. I was there at

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Speaker 2: the beginning and I got excited and I was talking

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Speaker 2: too much and he said, Danny, shut up and listen.

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Speaker 2: And I always remember that. I always you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: talking a lot now, because that's the nature you've got

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Speaker 2: to talk. I try to listen, and especially with original

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Speaker 2: people often. So this play is my end game is

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Speaker 2: to make a beautiful work of art.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're not indigenous yourself, are you? No? No, I

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Speaker 1: didn't think so.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: But it's it's the experience of living up there that

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Speaker 1: has obviously made you very what's the word sensitive to

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Speaker 1: the needs or aware? Anyway?

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Speaker 2: Aware and fond. Yeah, And you know, I'm so close

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Speaker 2: with people, you know, I speak nearly daily with people,

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Speaker 2: and a great honor. Many many years ago the family

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Speaker 2: rang me and said, Danny, we've had another baby and

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Speaker 2: we're going to name him Danny. Oh really Yeah, And

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Speaker 2: Dan is now twelve. Yeah, and they call him Danny

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Speaker 2: number two, you know, and that's a great honor. And

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Speaker 2: he's a beautiful boy. And he came with me to

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Speaker 2: do when we did the play in Tennant Creek for

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Speaker 2: the one hundred and fiftieth anniversary of Joining the Wire,

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Speaker 2: which was in when was that twenty twenty two? Yes, recently, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty five people came right nearly all

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Speaker 2: the Tenant Creek well, and we had three horses, which

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Speaker 2: is fantastic. And when I did the Stewart play, someone

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Speaker 2: told me you'll never make any money down. Well, Monny, okay,

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Speaker 2: you know thirteen performances.

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Speaker 1: Where did the play?

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Speaker 2: We did two in Mari, which is fantastic. Anyone's been

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Speaker 2: to Mari the pub there first night fall. So you

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Speaker 2: said Phil Turner, who was the public at the time,

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Speaker 2: So Danny, could you do another show the Hollow night

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Speaker 2: because he invited the station people, the Geographical Society, the

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Speaker 2: John McDill Society. I came up and things that inspire

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Speaker 2: me happened a young ringer with purple hair and rings

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Speaker 2: in her nose and at the end she said very moving. Really,

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Speaker 2: you know, stuff like that. That's why I keep writing now.

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Speaker 2: And you know we did it there. We did it

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Speaker 2: at Blindman.

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Speaker 1: Followed the telegraph.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. William Darton Keatwick, second in command on Stuart's expeditions,

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Speaker 2: is buried in the Blindman Cemetery. Yes, we did it well.

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Speaker 2: I did it at Yanker Lilla. I did it here

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Speaker 2: at the me Hall just just up the road here.

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Speaker 2: Who else did I do it? Alice Springs?

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Speaker 1: Of course.

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Speaker 2: The first performance was at the Stuart Town Jail. Really yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it was it was summer, it was like forty

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Speaker 2: five and I thought who's going to come. And the

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Speaker 2: people came with the big guns, people like Joseph Patrick,

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Speaker 2: Dick Kimber, Mary.

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Speaker 1: Nick are these mayor and whatever.

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Speaker 2: These.

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Speaker 1: People with a deep history.

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Speaker 2: And Dick Kimber and particularly was a historian, brilliant man

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Speaker 2: in his past now and he did nothing but encourage me,

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Speaker 2: and he contacted Stewart Society here, which Rick Moore, another

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Speaker 2: great guy, and it just sort of went on and

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Speaker 2: on and on and it was really enjoyable. But I

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Speaker 2: don't think I can do that again. I don't think

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Speaker 2: I can.

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Speaker 1: I'm not an act.

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Speaker 2: I did it out of necessity and I had to

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Speaker 2: put on a Scottish act. I'm Scottish descendant with a

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Speaker 2: name like Gillies. But I still got that hunger to

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Speaker 2: keep doing this and I just got to find this

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Speaker 2: new character. And I know he's out.

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Speaker 1: How old is he roughly in your mind.

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Speaker 2: About thirty five. He's a young man and he's probably

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Speaker 2: got an English accent.

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Speaker 1: He is.

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Speaker 2: He is resourceful, but he's also very sensitive and he's

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Speaker 2: struggling because he left his father back in England, who

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Speaker 2: was a policeman who had a nervous breakdown. And if

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Speaker 2: you had a breakdown. Back in those days, you didn't

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Speaker 2: get a little pill. You got put into a asylum.

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Speaker 2: And he had to get as far away from that,

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Speaker 2: but that was always on his mind.

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Speaker 1: How interesting? All right? So next step, you're getting all

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Speaker 1: this together. When's it likely? How far after? You think?

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Speaker 1: We're talking three months? Six months before it hits the

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Speaker 1: stage somewhere?

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Speaker 2: More?

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Speaker 1: More? Okay, more, I'm aiming for.

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Speaker 2: Next year, ye, the Adelaide Festival, Change Festival.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 2: I've more or less ninety nine percent complete on the script,

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Speaker 2: but that'll change as you do rehearsal, but not to

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Speaker 2: the extent that's gonna be a problem. And the photographs

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Speaker 2: we hope to get out and take at the end

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Speaker 2: of the year. Put it all together, and then I

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Speaker 2: just I've guess you've got to find these people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you will. I'm sure you will, Danny. Fascinating great

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Speaker 1: beating you on air tonight, and I wish you all

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Speaker 1: the best with it. The play Good White Man or

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Speaker 1: its title at the moment, would you guttier?

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Speaker 2: Would you?

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Speaker 1: How about that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? All right, good luck, Thank you, Matt.

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Speaker 1: Danny Gillies my guest play right here in Adelaide,