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Speaker 1: Get a welcome to the show. This is better than yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Useful tools and useful conversations to help make you all

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Speaker 2: day today better than yesterday. Every episode since twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 2: I have a question for you. If you've never done this,

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Speaker 2: I'd ask you next time you're in the middle of

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Speaker 2: a shopping center, or on the train or the bus

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Speaker 2: when you're commuting, just stop for a second, look up.

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Speaker 1: Notice something.

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Speaker 2: Almost everybody you encounter has got their face buried in

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Speaker 2: a phone.

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Speaker 1: I've done it. I did it today. But what is

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Speaker 1: this doing to us? To our brains? Importantly, what's it

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Speaker 1: doing to the brains of our kids?

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Speaker 2: And what can we do about it when so much

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Speaker 2: of our life relies on this technology. Lucky for you,

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Speaker 2: my guest today has.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the answers to those questions.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Mark Williams is an acclaimed cognitive neuroscientist. He's researched

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Speaker 2: and studied human behavior as well as brain imaging for

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Speaker 2: more than twenty five years. He's got a brand new

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Speaker 2: book out it's called Screen Smart Children, where he talks

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Speaker 2: about how screen exposure is rewiring.

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Speaker 1: Our brains and the brains of our kids.

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Speaker 2: From dopamine loops and social media, addiction to loneliness, parenting,

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Speaker 2: and the subtle ways that technology reshapes not just our

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Speaker 2: relationships but the very memory we have of our own life.

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Speaker 2: Oh why I found at times I found this conversation

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Speaker 2: quite tough. But it's okay because Mark then offers plenty

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Speaker 2: of simple and effective solutions to help build resilience, real

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Speaker 2: life resilience and connections with other human beings in a

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Speaker 2: digital world. Enjoy this conversation with Mark Williams.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for coming Mark. How is that coffee?

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Speaker 3: That is awesome? Thank you one of the best I've

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Speaker 3: had in them quite a while.

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Speaker 1: Every morning that coffee machine is on, you can come around.

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Speaker 3: Awesome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, black coffee in the morning, Crossword in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the day, Soner in the evening.

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Speaker 3: We've got to get a surf in there.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah we should actually yeah.

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Speaker 2: Are you are you a longer board less volume or

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Speaker 2: are you a shorter board more volume?

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Speaker 1: Kind of guy.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't short board, but I recently I recently had

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Speaker 3: to change to knee boarding, so I had to go

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Speaker 3: back retro kneeboarding because I stuffed my knee. So now

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Speaker 3: I'm knee boarding, which is interesting. I was actually about

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Speaker 3: to go to Solomon Islands. I mean a group of

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Speaker 3: mates go away every couple of years to somewhere fun.

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Speaker 3: We're about to leave for Solomon Islands, and yeah, I

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Speaker 3: did my foot crust my toes. So the only thing

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Speaker 3: I could do was needboard. So I just took up

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Speaker 3: the needboard. The first time I actually used the needboard

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Speaker 3: was that Solomon Islands on a reef break.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't cancel a trip, honey, I'm still going.

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Speaker 2: I will finally, I will go on. I will go

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Speaker 2: on a surf mat. If I need to worked in

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Speaker 2: Crystal Voyager work here, will I have one?

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Speaker 1: I have a surf mat and it's the funnest thing.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 2: We started talking about surfing. We did to talk about screens.

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Speaker 2: But Dave Rastovich's Australian surfer. There was a great movie

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Speaker 2: with him and Andy Irons where it was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: one's the soul surfer ones the competition was up against

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Speaker 2: each other and Rasta. I used to work with Bill

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Speaker 2: Bong when I was in music television, and Rasta said

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Speaker 2: to me it was a take on the Victor Frankle

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Speaker 2: quite he said there's no such thing as bad surf,

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Speaker 2: only inappropriate choice of equipment.

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Speaker 1: And this is a guy who's paid to surf around

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 2: And I thought, you know what, you're absolutely right because

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Speaker 2: I asked him about surf. Mat he goes, yeah, man, like,

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Speaker 2: if I'm away, I'm not going to not go out.

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Speaker 1: Go out and I'll just he said, I'll go on anything.

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Speaker 1: I'll body surf, I'll surf. Matt Booky bought. I don't care.

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Speaker 1: And I like that. The playfulness factor.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he could do it because he was cute,

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Speaker 2: you know, and he was good well, he was Australian

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Speaker 2: champion paddler.

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Speaker 1: As well as.

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Speaker 2: The other thing about surfing, which is a great analogy

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Speaker 2: for mental health as well, is you know, if you

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Speaker 2: can paddle, it doesn't matter how you are when you

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Speaker 2: get on the board, but if you can paddle, you'll

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Speaker 2: be a better surfer than anybody else because you.

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Speaker 1: Are in the right spot, you're on the right wave,

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Speaker 1: you're out of trouble.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you've got the thing to get you

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Speaker 2: in and out of where you want to be, doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: You're all good. If you can't paddle.

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Speaker 2: Well, if you have a great bottom turn big woop.

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Speaker 2: But if you can't paddle, well, you're not going to

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Speaker 2: get the right wave you want. We go on your book.

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Speaker 2: Your book did a few things for me. A there's

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Speaker 2: two things, one slightly less than the other. The smaller

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Speaker 2: thing it did to me was like, man, that is fascinating.

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Speaker 2: I love that there's so many action points in there.

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Speaker 2: The bigger thing it did to me was like, fuck,

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Speaker 2: and I think like to think I'm.

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Speaker 1: A smart person.

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Speaker 2: My wife thinks she's a very smart person. We like

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Speaker 2: to think we're smart. Parents will like to think we're

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Speaker 2: doing the right thing for our kids, and holy smokes,

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Speaker 2: we are so far down this slope that we did

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Speaker 2: not realize because you see other people with kids and

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Speaker 2: you're like, we're judgmental parents, like anybody. You're like, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm not that person of the part, you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: not that person at the restaurant, I'm not that person

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Speaker 2: on the plane, And fuck mate, turns out we kind

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Speaker 2: of are. And that was really confronting for me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, reading this.

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Speaker 2: For people who are listening, who are kind of avoiding

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Speaker 2: what's happening in their own families with their kids in

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Speaker 2: screen time, how can we open this conversation.

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Speaker 1: How can we give a permission.

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Speaker 2: To be open to listening rather than listening through a

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Speaker 2: lens of I'm terrible. I don't want to listen to

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Speaker 2: what you know, Marc has to say because it means

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Speaker 2: that I'm a bad parent.

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Speaker 3: I think it's I've got two teenagers. I've got a

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Speaker 3: fourteen and a sixteen year old old at home, and

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Speaker 3: I've gone through right all of this with everyone else,

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Speaker 3: and I'm making mistakes too. I think we all make mistakes,

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Speaker 3: and there's stupid things we do, and these moments where

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Speaker 3: we're stressed or work or whatever, and so we need

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Speaker 3: to realize that and we need to acknowledge that and

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Speaker 3: just say it's okay. We're all work in progress constantly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah I am, I know, in many many different ways.

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Speaker 3: And so yeah, I think we need to stop beating

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Speaker 3: ourselves up about what we've done in the past and

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Speaker 3: just think about the future. And the future is bright

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Speaker 3: if we do things to improve ourselves a little bit

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Speaker 3: every day, right.

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Speaker 2: All right, So at the start of this conversation, I

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Speaker 2: will forgive myself and my family for the way we've

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Speaker 2: been dealing with screens in our home. That includes both

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Speaker 2: our kids, one's nearly twenty two. One's six g. You

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Speaker 2: had a phone which was twelve. I remember from it

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Speaker 2: was like day to night after she got it, how

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Speaker 2: she engaged with us. But you can't.

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Speaker 1: It's like we're going to de electrifi a city. You

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Speaker 1: can't do it.

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Speaker 2: Like once it's there, it's like teeth paste doesn't go

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Speaker 2: back in the tube. We'll get two older brains in

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Speaker 2: a moment. For when people hear screen smart, I'm here.

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Speaker 2: I want to help your kids be screen smart. I

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Speaker 2: want you to be screen smart about your kids. The

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Speaker 2: first thing that comes to mind is like, well, that's

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Speaker 2: less screen time. How close to the mark is that.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's necessarily less screen time. I think

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Speaker 3: it's been more aware of the screen time and when

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Speaker 3: you're doing the screen time. Right, we need to socialize

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Speaker 3: more and we need friends, right, We need people around

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Speaker 3: us that we love, and kids especially need that, and

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Speaker 3: so we need to be spending more time with the

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Speaker 3: people around us. And so having screen time when you're

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Speaker 3: not doing anything else is fine as long as you

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Speaker 3: knowledge that that's when you're actually doing it. But when

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Speaker 3: you're with other people, I think we need to then

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Speaker 3: prioritize the person who's with you, because they're giving you

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Speaker 3: their time, and our time is our life, right, and

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Speaker 3: so it's really valuable and they're giving you that, and

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Speaker 3: so you should really appreciate that and acknowledge that and

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Speaker 3: actually spend time with that person. And that's really I

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Speaker 3: think the main message in the book is, let's spend

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Speaker 3: time with the person in front of us, and then

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Speaker 3: let's do the screen time when there's no one around

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Speaker 3: and we're bored, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's be really clear. The spending time with each

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Speaker 2: other part wired for that. It feels good when we

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Speaker 2: look each other in the eye, when we listen to conversations,

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Speaker 2: when we get new ideas, when we do physical stuff

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Speaker 2: with each other, when we dance in sync, when we

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Speaker 2: sing together. All these things are proven to make our

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Speaker 2: brains feel good.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 2: There are companies, unfortunately now probably only five, making trillions

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Speaker 2: of dollars by giving us a tiny, little squirt pretend

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Speaker 2: version of those things that humans get from interacting with

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Speaker 2: each other. And because we're getting them for free, we think, ah,

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Speaker 2: this is great because now I get I don't have

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Speaker 2: to see my friend, I can see them on my

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Speaker 2: hand in my phone. I don't have to go and

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Speaker 2: listen to an idea that's not mine. I can see

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Speaker 2: it in my phone, but that's not it. We're being

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Speaker 2: deprived of the real thing. It's like pretend sugar eat

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Speaker 2: enough of it. It has a laxative effect.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and we've got to remember all there's huge amount

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Speaker 3: of x neurotransmitters that are released when we actually do

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Speaker 3: the face to face right when we actually together with

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Speaker 3: each other. You have oxytocin, serotonin, a whole bunch of

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Speaker 3: endorphins and all these things that are released when we're

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Speaker 3: face to face because like first thing we do is

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Speaker 3: we touch each other, right, we chook hands when we

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Speaker 3: actually met, when and when you actually we have these

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Speaker 3: CEA fibers in our skin that evolved to be released

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Speaker 3: to release oxytose in our brain when we touch each other,

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Speaker 3: and they only activate when you touch. They're really unique

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Speaker 3: and that's what's released, these oxytocin, which makes us more

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Speaker 3: feel and more connected to the person and actually makes

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Speaker 3: us feel as though we're part of a group, so

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Speaker 3: we're actually and it's also released when you have an orgasm.

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Speaker 3: So it's a good neurotransmitter and it's something we want

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Speaker 3: in our brains, but you don't get that when you're

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Speaker 3: online because you don't touch anyone, right, because you've just

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Speaker 3: seen one and serotonin. Serotonin is released because of body

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Speaker 3: language and mirror neurons and we're mimicking each other and

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Speaker 3: we're looking each other in the eye. You don't get

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Speaker 3: serotonin when you're online because you don't get all that

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Speaker 3: stuff when you're online, so you miss out on the lease.

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Speaker 3: Really good neurotransmitters make us feel good for a long

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Speaker 3: period of time, and all you get is dopamine. And

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Speaker 3: dopamine doesn't actually make us feel happy. It's a real

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Speaker 3: misnomer in the media. What dopamine does is it makes

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Speaker 3: us search for the thing that we just had, and

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Speaker 3: so we search for more of it. And it's so

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Speaker 3: that when you eat something that's good for you, you

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Speaker 3: want to eat more of it, right, And so you

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Speaker 3: feel good when you eat berries or whatever, and you

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Speaker 3: go looking for more berries, and that's what it's there for.

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Speaker 3: But eventually you get full of berries and so you

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Speaker 3: no longer want anymore. But when you're on social media,

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Speaker 3: you keep getting dopamine, which means you keep searching for

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Speaker 3: more of it. And more of it, more of it,

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Speaker 3: but you never get full, so you keep searching for

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Speaker 3: more of it, and then you get more and more dopamine,

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Speaker 3: which makes you want more of it. And that's why

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Speaker 3: we get addicted to it, not because it makes us happy,

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Speaker 3: but because it makes us search for more of it.

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Speaker 2: The dysregulation of our awards system is something that leads.

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Speaker 2: That's how I ended up needing to get sober because

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Speaker 2: I could no longer make.

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Speaker 1: A choice to not drink or use funny A mate,

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Speaker 1: dear mate.

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Speaker 2: He texted me last night a photo from six years

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Speaker 2: ago when I was living in Los Angeles. He said, oh,

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Speaker 2: sixteen years ago, we went to go see the Peewee

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Speaker 2: Herman Live show Peewish Playhouse. It was full of cameos

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Speaker 2: of incredible people from movies and we laughed our ass off.

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Speaker 1: And I just wrote back to him and say, mate.

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Speaker 2: That was the last six weeks before I actually ended

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Speaker 2: up in a meeting. I said, I breaks my heart.

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Speaker 2: I remember that we went to it, but I couldn't

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Speaker 2: remember a detail.

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Speaker 3: Just fuck me, man.

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Speaker 2: It was like but like alcohol companies and not necess

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Speaker 2: some pharmaceutical companies I don't know, but definitely alcohol companies

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Speaker 2: and gambling companies have figured out how to take advantage

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Speaker 2: of someone with a dysregulated dogman system. Yet there's still

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Speaker 2: a barrier to entry. You still have to at the

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Speaker 2: very least, someone's got to now deliver the boost to your.

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Speaker 1: House, all right, which sucks.

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Speaker 2: But yes, however, these companies they employ people like you

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Speaker 2: with probably very similar degrees to you, because they're making it,

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Speaker 2: as I said, trillions of dollars by going at exactly

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Speaker 2: what point do we deliver the variable reward with how

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Speaker 2: much haptic feedback and a ding ding ding sound and

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Speaker 2: bizz and and shows some scarcity and like, well, if

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Speaker 2: you don't keep.

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Speaker 1: Playing, you're going to lose all your things.

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Speaker 2: Your streaks, you're out the window, and well you think

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Speaker 2: of well, im't spending any money on it. You're spending

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Speaker 2: breaths that you will never get again, heartbeats you'll never

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Speaker 2: get again, a day that will go by that you'll

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Speaker 2: never live again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's also it's also decreasing the amount of

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Speaker 3: time you're going to spend on this earth as well. Right,

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Speaker 3: it's not only that you're wasting all that amount of

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Speaker 3: time you're spending, but it's also because the stress levels. Right,

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Speaker 3: it's increasing our stress levels, which actually affects our cardiovascular system,

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Speaker 3: which we know then results in death earlier later on.

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Speaker 3: Plus we're lonely because we don't have friends and zone

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Speaker 3: because we're spending. And again loneliness is actually caused us

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Speaker 3: death causes earlier death. So we're actually not only are

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Speaker 3: we wasting the time we've got here, we're actually decreasing

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Speaker 3: the amount of time we've got here, which is also

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Speaker 3: really really sad. Right, And you have all these people

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Speaker 3: people who are doing all these crazy things there, right,

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Speaker 3: they're getting up at four am and they're doing ice

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Speaker 3: bars and they're rubbing avocado all over their bodies, and

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Speaker 3: they're right, but then they're also spending all this time

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Speaker 3: on social media and not actually socializing. But we know

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Speaker 3: to increase your lifespan by ten to fifteen years, all

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Speaker 3: you've got to do is actually sit down with someone

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Speaker 3: you trust on a regular base in chattool, right that

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Speaker 3: you don't have to do a lot of other stuff.

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Speaker 3: You just have to do that. Yet we're not doing

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Speaker 3: anywhere near enough of that to actually have that benefit.

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Speaker 2: When it comes to kids, and I say it all

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Speaker 2: the time, the best and worst thing about having kids

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Speaker 2: is they don't do what you tell them, but they

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Speaker 2: do everything you show them.

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Speaker 1: How does my mistake me?

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Speaker 2: How does my phone time, my screen time affect my kids,

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Speaker 2: whether they be from when I met Geordian when she

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Speaker 2: was ten or from Wapi when he was born.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's multiple things going on there, So let's

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Speaker 3: start at the beginning, right. We know that toddler or

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Speaker 3: a newborn whose parents or carers are on the phone

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Speaker 3: a lot have abnormal ability to recognize facial expressions, and

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Speaker 3: that's because as a toddler, as a baby, what happens

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Speaker 3: is you're at the park and you fall over and

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Speaker 3: you feel bad, and then you look up to your

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Speaker 3: cara and they're looking sad because they just saw you

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Speaker 3: fall over, and you understand that facial expression goes with

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Speaker 3: this feeling. Or you do something fun and you feel

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Speaker 3: good because you did something fun, and you look up

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Speaker 3: to your care and their smile and you go, that's

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Speaker 3: facial expression goes with this and feeling feeling happy. But

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Speaker 3: if your care is on the phone, they're not changing

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Speaker 3: their facial expressions because they're not seeing what you're doing.

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Speaker 3: So you associate what we call still face, neutral face

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Speaker 3: with all of the different emotions. So we've got kids

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Speaker 3: now who are going to preschool who don't use their

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Speaker 3: facial expressions. They have still face effect where they have

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Speaker 3: a neutral face instead of actually having different facial expressions

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Speaker 3: because of the fact that the pet cares are on

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Speaker 3: their phones are not actually responding to them, which then

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Speaker 3: impacts on their ability to make friends, because how do

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Speaker 3: you make friends. You walk up to someone, you smile

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Speaker 3: at them. But if you walk up to someone and

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Speaker 3: you've got a neutral face because you think that's what

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Speaker 3: you're supposed to do, then the other person going to

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Speaker 3: look at you weed and probably walk away. And so

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Speaker 3: a lot of kids, especially in preschool now are having

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Speaker 3: trouble making friends because they no longer they don't know

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Speaker 3: how to use their facial expression. So we're going to

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Speaker 3: we're now having doing preschools actually teach kids how to

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Speaker 3: use their facial expression, and even in primary school where

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Speaker 3: now you know, there's social emotional learning programs going on

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Speaker 3: in primary schools to teach kids how to use facial

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Speaker 3: expressions and this happy face and this is a sad face,

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Speaker 3: and which was normally taught both parents as well.

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Speaker 1: We weren't teaching. It was just part of life.

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Speaker 3: It's just what happened. Yeah, it's just life. It's just

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Speaker 3: what actually happens. And we've got your loneliness has gone,

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Speaker 3: you know, epidemic proportions according to Weld Health Organization and

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Speaker 3: so on, because of the fact that we don't understand

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Speaker 3: facial expressions as well anymore. And then you've got the

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Speaker 3: other side of it, which is the earlier a child

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Speaker 3: is given a device or has access to a device,

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Speaker 3: the more likely they will be diagnosed with ADHD, and

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Speaker 3: more likely they'll have attentional problems. More likely they'll have

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Speaker 3: problems with able to ability to write, more problems with movements,

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Speaker 3: so sports and all those when they get to school,

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Speaker 3: more problems with socialized.

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Speaker 2: I thought something like ADHD was something that you're you're

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Speaker 2: born with.

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Speaker 3: Well, well, there's now discussions amongst a lot of psychologists

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Speaker 3: that we need to actually split the diagnosis of ADHD

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Speaker 3: into two different forms of ADHD, one which is genetic form,

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Speaker 3: which was a traditional one that we know about, and

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Speaker 3: the other one would be a digital ADHD, which is

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Speaker 3: caused by devices. And they believe that probably the majority

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Speaker 3: of ADHD cases now actually caused by devices, not actually.

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Speaker 2: Caused by did you say da dhd ADHD No, but

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Speaker 2: with the D in front of it digital, so d ADHD.

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Speaker 1: And yet.

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Speaker 2: Meta stock keeps going up, yes, and you know, candy

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Speaker 2: Crush and Fortnite and roadblocks stop keeps going through the

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Speaker 2: roof and no jangs fuck.

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Speaker 3: Me, And we've got to you've got to remember, I mean,

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Speaker 3: we've got to be nice about this. I mean, Mark

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Speaker 3: Zuckerberg recently said all he wants is just for everybody

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Speaker 3: in the world to be on Facebook four hours a day.

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Speaker 3: So I mean it's not a lot that he wants, right,

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Speaker 3: four hours a day. We're all four hours and Mark

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Speaker 3: will be happy and he'll be a billionaire and he'll

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Speaker 3: go on. But then you're already a billionaires one for

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Speaker 3: a long time, multi multi, multimillionaire, trillionaire. Sorry, he's probably

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Speaker 3: trying to catch up to Elon.

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Speaker 1: That's staggering.

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Speaker 2: Like if we knew when they were trying to launch

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Speaker 2: the market, Like if you were I said, hey, guys,

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Speaker 2: we're going to launch tobacco. It's going to be great,

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Speaker 2: all right, it's gonna be a real We'll keep it above

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Speaker 2: eighteen because kids don't need to use it. Here's all

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Speaker 2: the results that happen if you smoke in front of kids,

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Speaker 2: and here's what happens if you do it for.

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Speaker 1: A long time. There's no way we'd launch tobacco.

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Speaker 2: We wouldn't be allowed alcohol alcohol, We wouldn't be allowed

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Speaker 2: to launch alcohol as a product.

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Speaker 1: And yet this product is launched into our market for free. Hey,

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Speaker 1: so what's.

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Speaker 2: The problem with such really valid, scientifically tested negative consequences

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Speaker 2: on everybody?

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Speaker 1: And we're supposed to be okay with it? Help?

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Speaker 3: But it was by stealth, right, Well, it wasn't even

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Speaker 3: by stealth, It really just evolved. I was lucky enough

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Speaker 3: to be at MIT working at MIT when the first

393
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Speaker 3: iPhone came out and Mark Zuckerbeg had just recently released Facebook,

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Speaker 3: but it was only released to students at overleague schools

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Speaker 3: like miteens and back then, if you looked at Facebook,

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Speaker 3: you would only get a feed from those that you

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Speaker 3: actually were friends with, So you don only get three

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Speaker 3: or four posts a week, right, and that's all you get.

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Speaker 3: And there was no advertising on it. They hadn't realized

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Speaker 3: they could make money out of this yet, so it

401
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Speaker 3: was co letely fine, right, And it would have been

402
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Speaker 3: fine if they left it like that, it's just that

403
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Speaker 3: they were turned around and went, oh, hang on, how

404
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:06,399
Speaker 3: are we going to monetize it? How are we going

405
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Speaker 3: to get money out of this? Who are we going

406
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Speaker 3: to And if we're going to make money out of it,

407
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Speaker 3: then we've got to make sure that people are on it.

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Speaker 3: And if we're going to do it free, then we've

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Speaker 3: got to sell advertising them Once we start advertising, yeah,

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Speaker 3: they're selling advertising. Advertisers want to make sure that people

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Speaker 3: are looking at it and so on, and we now

412
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Speaker 3: know right, it's got to the point now that if

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Speaker 3: a girl, if a teenager, deletes a post that has

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Speaker 3: a picture of herself in it on Instagram, within five

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Speaker 3: hundred milliseconds, she will start getting advertising from cosmetic companies

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Speaker 3: because they know she's feeling depressed about herself, and so

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Speaker 3: she's more likely to start buying cosmetics within five hundred milliseconds.

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Speaker 3: They've now shown that it's actually doing right that to

419
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Speaker 3: me is really depressing and shows where we've got two

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Speaker 3: with this. Now the companies will argue, well, that's just

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Speaker 3: the algorithm, because that's what it's worked out. We don't

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Speaker 3: know what the algorithm's doing, but the algorithm is are theirs?

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Speaker 3: So you know what's actually going on there.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying not to just weep for the world right now.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 1: That's it's just so we've opened the conversation.

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Speaker 2: With one part of it, because it's very emotional part

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Speaker 2: of it, which is the screens bad.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna you know, the world's falling down.

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Speaker 2: Kids, you know, can't see smiles, No one can learn

431
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Speaker 2: how to make friends. We're you're raising a generation of zombies,

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Speaker 2: like Sky's flying. And part of that is true. And

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Speaker 2: yet there's also what I mentioned before, we can no

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Speaker 2: sooner can we just instantly make it go away because

435
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Speaker 2: our world, our economy has started to rely on this,

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Speaker 2: certainly in our modern economy here in Australia. But also

437
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 2: there are there are there are some great benefits to

438
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 2: some of these devices and the things. But I'm using

439
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 2: one right now. My notes are on one of these

440
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 2: right now. I used one to call my producer before.

441
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,360
Speaker 2: There's great benefit to some of these things. But that's

442
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 2: the only two sides of the con It's never you know,

443
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 2: there's a lot of socialization. If she didn't have a

444
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 2: phone when she was like a teenager, like she would

445
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 2: be cut off from her friends. She would have been

446
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 2: ostracized and we didn't want to do that to her,

447
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 2: and no parent would really, so like, how do how

448
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 2: do we deal with that? You know the polarity of

449
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 2: this conversation.

450
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we need to realize that there's nothing

451
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 3: wrong with technology, right. Technology is beautiful. A hammer is

452
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 3: a form of technology that was developed, right, And you

453
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 3: can use a hammer to build a house, So you

454
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 3: can use a hammer to kill someone, right. I mean

455
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 3: it depends on what you're using it for and how

456
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,360
Speaker 3: you're using it, And so I see it. And I'm

457
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 3: a neuroscientist, right, I can program in five different languages.

458
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 3: I helped I was involved in using VR to diagnose

459
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 3: anox innovation and blame the innovator and treating those disorders,

460
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,959
Speaker 3: and one of the only external semens developers for MRIs

461
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 3: in Australia. Right. I love technology and I love using

462
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,400
Speaker 3: technology to do great things. And there are great things

463
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 3: being done where we're working on using AI to look

464
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 3: at scans better so that we can diagnose breast cancer,

465
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 3: we can diagnose all these other things, and there's some

466
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 3: amazing stuff going on, but there's also some crap going

467
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 3: on that we need to get rid of, or we

468
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 3: need to at least restrict from our teenagers and our children.

469
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 3: And one of the biggest things that we know is

470
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 3: damaging is social media, and is gaming and is the

471
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 3: gambling resue. Right here in Australia, the biggest number of

472
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 3: gamblers of the fifteen to twenty five year olds, and

473
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 3: they've come from gaming, right because we know gaming is

474
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 3: a gateway drug to gambit and they advertise all the

475
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 3: gambling apps on the gaming apps right, So we've got

476
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 3: to go, hang on, what are the things that are

477
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 3: causing problems and let's restrict those and let's be careful

478
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 3: about those, and let's really develop the stuff that's working

479
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 3: really well.

480
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,040
Speaker 2: What I mean you look, you've worked with MRIs and

481
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 2: I've been in an fMRI machine, which was I was

482
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 2: very lucky because I got to see my brain reacting

483
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 2: to something that the most punters never get to do

484
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: and I've got to see I'll tell you later, but

485
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 2: it was an extraordinary diagnostic tool. It's an amazing thing.

486
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 2: And also thanks for the way that you adjusted the scans,

487
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 2: because I've had about a thousand mrs my hip surgery,

488
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: so yeah, I can have a scan without worrying that

489
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: the prosthetic heap of mind.

490
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much.

491
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 3: It's good.

492
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 2: But you're you're an expert in cognitive cognitive neuroscience. The

493
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 2: ven diagram between your expertise of cognitive neuroscience and technology

494
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: is dinner plates.

495
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: All right, you're sitting on top of each other.

496
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 2: So what do you think a healthy relationship with screens

497
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 2: looks like?

498
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: Now?

499
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 3: So i'll give you. Given this is all about parents,

500
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 3: I'll give you an example of me as a parent.

501
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 3: I've got a fourteen year old son who has a phone.

502
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 3: And he got a phone when he started going to

503
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 3: high school because he needed to travel to high school.

504
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 3: And he's obsessed with basketball and he loves playing basketball

505
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 3: and so he goes down the courts and all the

506
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 3: rest of it. So we wanted a way for him

507
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 3: to contact us. Now, he doesn't have social media, and

508
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 3: neither is my daughter who's sixteen, and they wait until

509
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 3: they're eighteen because that's what all our health professionals say

510
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 3: should be the age rather than sixteen. But he does

511
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 3: have a phone.

512
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: But I just want to point out for people in Australia,

513
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 2: even though the law is sixteen is sixteen, we changed

514
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 2: the law recently one of the first countries in the

515
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 2: world to change it.

516
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: Sixteen.

517
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 3: Yes, but all of the health professionals were pushing the

518
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 3: government for eighteen and which they didn't do, which I

519
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 3: don't understand. It's just as addictive as smoking, so why

520
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 3: shouldn't have treated the same as making But anyway, we'll

521
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 3: move on. And he loves basketball, and so I mean,

522
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 3: one of the things that he's real indication to me

523
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 3: that I don't have an issue with him in his

524
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 3: phone is that often I'll say have you got your phone?

525
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 3: And he'll go, oh, it's out of batteries. Right, he

526
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 3: just doesn't care about it. And the other thing is

527
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 3: if I say to him if he'll be playing he

528
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 3: loves the NBA game, playing that on his phone or

529
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 3: on whatever. And if I say to him when he's

530
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 3: playing that, do you want meant to drop you off

531
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 3: down the courts? If he turns around and goes, no,

532
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 3: I'd rather be playing the game, then I know I've

533
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 3: got an issue. Yeah, he hasn't yet. He always goes, yeah, please,

534
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 3: let's go to the courts. Right, That's when we know

535
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 3: we've got a problem. If they would prefer to be

536
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 3: online then to be out in the real world, then

537
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 3: you've got a problem. And that's I think a really

538
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 3: easy indication. And for me, you really indicate easy indication

539
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 3: of when they've become addicted and when we need to

540
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 3: start restricting things and start having conversations with them. But

541
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 3: I'm lucky that that hasn't happened yet and I hope

542
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 3: it never will touch with.

543
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: Well, your kids have got a.

544
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,479
Speaker 2: Cognitive neuroscientist as a dad, so they're kind of lucky.

545
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm sure they go. But my friends everyone,

546
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's all that and you've got to weather

547
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: that storm. Yes, but I guess I'll challenge you a

548
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: part of it saying, you know, there was a time

549
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 2: before two thousand, so even where the iPhone.

550
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 1: Was launched, when.

551
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 2: Well, it's like like kids stayed at home, like I'm

552
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 2: going down the basketball courts, I'll call it from the payphone.

553
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 2: Or if they weren't home until half an hour after sunset,

554
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 2: you're like, well, my call his mate's mums to see if.

555
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: They've seen him. We were just a lot cooler with

556
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: our kids.

557
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: Being out and about, and part of that adventure for

558
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 2: the kid was also a very important developmental milestone of

559
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 2: developing independence, and I'm wondering where that went.

560
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's still happened my son Don but

561
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 3: he'll often just text and say, hey, I meeting mates

562
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 3: at the bus stop, and they'll meet at the bus

563
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 3: stop and then they'll go and do stuff and God

564
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 3: knows what they're doing. And I don't really care as

565
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 3: long as he comes home safe and healthy and all

566
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 3: the rest of it. And so I think we can

567
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 3: allow them to do it, and we should. I mean,

568
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 3: kids are more safe today out in the real world

569
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 3: than they've ever been, right and there it's far more

570
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 3: dangerous online than it is out in the real world.

571
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 3: I mean, you see all of the bullying and all

572
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 3: that that's happening online. You see all of the sextortion

573
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 3: that's happening online. You see all of the kids committing

574
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: suicide because of what's happening online, not because of what's

575
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 3: happening in the real world.

576
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: But Mark, my phone that I have in my hand

577
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: the whole time is telling me that there's rock spiders

578
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 2: everywhere and I can't let my child out the front

579
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 2: door without a phone.

580
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's the problem, right that we're being told

581
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 3: told the world's dangerous constantly, and it's not. It's not.

582
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 3: The world well, actually a wonderful place most of the time, man,

583
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 3: And I think we've got to stop focusing on the

584
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 3: negative and start focusing on the positive. Yeah.

585
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: The way I talk about is I'm not saying that

586
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: these people don't exist in that community.

587
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: They do. But I'll say to you this, and I

588
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: think this. I looked it up.

589
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 2: One day, fourteen million people will drive home safely from work.

590
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 2: Today we'll see one car crash on the news. It's

591
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 2: therefore roads are dangerous, all right, It's not real. It's

592
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 2: the availability heuristic, is what it's called. If we see

593
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 2: this thing all the time, we believe that that's what

594
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: the world is.

595
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 1: But it isn't. And it's a very hard thing. It

596
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: is because it's so emotive. So my children, my children's safety.

597
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 2: Nobody wants their kid to be hurt in any way

598
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 2: at all, nobody. But you also have to be open

599
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: to the idea that maybe the things that we are

600
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 2: being told might not represent the world we live in.

601
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

602
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: It's kind of.

603
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 3: Hard though, And I see it from the media's point

604
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 3: of view, Right, they need to show what happens, right,

605
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: and so they but they just show the one offs

606
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 3: and they show the anecdotes and they show that. Yeah,

607
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 3: and they show the negative because we're attracted to that, right,

608
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 3: And I think we need to also remember that, right.

609
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 3: A lot of people talk about this fact we're attracted

610
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 3: to the negative, so that's what we want, right, or

611
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 3: that's what we need, And in actual way, that's not true.

612
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 3: What happens is our attention goes to the negative so

613
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 3: that we can then respond to it. Because from an

614
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 3: evolutionary point of view, you needed to know when danger

615
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 3: was there so you could respond to the danger.

616
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: Left us a life.

617
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. But it's not that we like the negative.

618
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 3: It's just that we're attracted to the negative because it

619
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 3: keeps us alife. And so because of that, Yeah, And

620
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 3: a lot of media companies know that people are attracted

621
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 3: to the negative, and so therefore we're going to show

622
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 3: the negative because that's going to get more eyes on screens. Again,

623
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 3: it's this whole eyes on screens, right that people are

624
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 3: always Therefore.

625
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: So tell me about you mentioned in the book that

626
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: we're in this kind of we're in this unprecedented experiment.

627
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 2: We're in an unprecedented experiment launching this product into a

628
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: market of humans, and we're testing in real time what

629
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 2: happens to both adults and children. What are the first

630
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 2: signs that we might be able to notice in our

631
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: own kids?

632
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: You mentioned someone already.

633
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: What are some other signs that we might be able

634
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 2: to do this in our kids or maybe ourselves? That

635
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: this experiment's not going very well?

636
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the doom scrolling is a big one, right,

637
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 3: which we talked about earlier. I think if you or

638
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 3: your kids are spending a lot of time just looking

639
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 3: at cat videos, right, nonsense, right, then you really need

640
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 3: to have a think about how can we actually restrict this. Also,

641
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 3: a lot of teens and even adults, right, will get

642
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 3: very stressed when their phone's almost out at batteries. I mean,

643
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 3: if that's happening, then you've got you've got a problem, right,

644
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 3: because what does it matter if your phone actually runs

645
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 3: out of batteries? You plug it in and then a

646
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 3: couple of hours later you can see what texts you

647
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 3: may missed. And if you're actually spending more time online

648
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 3: than you are with real people, then again you've got

649
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 3: a problem in your social life. Obviously, we all spend

650
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 3: a lot of time on screens or many of us

651
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: do at work, but in your social life, you feel

652
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 3: spending more time on screens than you are in your

653
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 3: social life. Thing, you've got a problem. You need to

654
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 3: be spending time with people because that's what makes us,

655
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 3: that's what really makes us who we are as humans, right,

656
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 3: and so that's what we should be doing. I think

657
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 3: there's some really key things that we need to be

658
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 3: looking at. And I always find it funny because a

659
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 3: lot of parents will say to me, you know, it's

660
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 3: really sad. I can't how do I get my child

661
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 3: out of the bedroom. And when I was a kid,

662
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 3: the worst thing a parent could do was send you

663
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 3: to your bedroom right in tears, basically, And now we're

664
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: talking about how do we get them out of their bedrooms.

665
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 3: So to me, number one is no devices in bedrooms.

666
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 3: And what we do at home is we'll have all

667
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 3: the devices where our phones all go in one area,

668
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 3: and if you want to use your phone, you've got

669
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: to use it like we used to use it, and

670
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 3: it's connected to the wall, and you have to understand

671
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 3: there because it's not very pleasant to stand there, right,

672
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 3: And so you only do what you need to do

673
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 3: because you're actually standing there, and we all do that right,

674
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 3: and we don't need devices when we're having dinner. We

675
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 3: need to break bread together and look at each other

676
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 3: and spend time with each other.

677
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: We do need to take a quick break in a

678
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: moment we get into the addictive nature of social media.

679
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: But more importantly, how to break that brain drain cycle

680
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 2: that you may have noticed happening with your kids in

681
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: their screens back in.

682
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: A second you mentioned break bread.

683
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 2: There's a reason that these things are codified in traditions

684
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: and cultures and religions all over the world because the

685
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 2: people that did that survived longer. Like, how, what's going

686
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: on with that family? They seem to be really healthy

687
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 2: and really well. But my family, who never really see

688
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 2: each other dick and shitty. What if we stayed met

689
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 2: every weekend on a particular day and ate together.

690
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: That's good. Let's let's just write that in their break bread.

691
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: That's good.

692
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 2: Put that in there, guys, so we don't forget it.

693
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: Let's sing a song about it, you know. And that's

694
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: that's why it's there. That's it's not because some magic

695
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 2: because some magical sky dad, So do this, or you

696
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 2: burn it, so it happened because people notice that those

697
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: who did it stayed a live longer. It's the same

698
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: with eating pork and stuff. But you know, whatever with

699
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 2: anyone would be familiar with. If you've ever you know,

700
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 2: been fit for a while, gone on holidays and then

701
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 2: come back and done a first exercise class again after

702
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: three weeks or two weeks of lying around by a pool,

703
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: that first class is like, oh my.

704
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: I might need another lung. This is terrible. Like you

705
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: use it or you lose it. You your body will

706
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:51,479
Speaker 1: do your condition.

707
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: In the book, you talk about a very very famous

708
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: study of London taxi drivers. Before GPS, London taxi drivers

709
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 2: had an enlarged prosterior. Yeah, the para, the hippo campus,

710
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 2: the memory part, the part of my brain that was

711
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: turned off the night seeing who you have? It much

712
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 2: larger because they London's a rabbit warrant, but they knew.

713
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: They call it the knowledge. I met a woman whose

714
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: dad I said, did you have the logic? Oh, we

715
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: had the knowledge. Yeah that's a big thing. Yeah, it's

716
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: a huge thing.

717
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: They would be able to remember the entire London street map,

718
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 2: but then when they retired they couldn't do it. Anymore

719
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 2: and that part of their brain had shrunk again, What

720
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 2: happens what parts of our brain let's talk, let's get

721
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 2: people fronened.

722
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: What happens to our kids' brains?

723
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: What parts of our brains aren't getting big enough when

724
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: they're on the screen all the time, and what can

725
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 2: we do about that?

726
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, the parwaly Cample place area is actually really interesting

727
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 3: one because that's the area where we have all our

728
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 3: maps and everything, and that's the one that they originally

729
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 3: found got bigger in London taxi drivers. And we know

730
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 3: that if you use those wayfinder apps like Google Maps

731
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 3: all the time when you go in places, they're smaller

732
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 3: in most people. But they've also found that because that

733
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 3: area is actually connected to the Hippo campus, which is

734
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 3: where where all your episodic memory is, which is you

735
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 3: remember in Pee wee Herman event is that we actually

736
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 3: link how we get to places with what we actually

737
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 3: do when we get there. So if you use a

738
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 3: wayfinder app to get somewhere, you actually remember less about

739
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 3: what you do when you get there because you've got

740
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 3: nothing to link it too. And so we don't remember

741
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 3: what we did when we get there because we use

742
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 3: a Wayfind app to get there, because you can't activate

743
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 3: your power of a cample place area because the way

744
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 3: the maps work is they twist around, whereas the maps

745
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 3: in our brain are all set based on north, south, east,

746
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 3: and west and so relational to our environment environment, Yeah, exactly,

747
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 3: and so we know that both of those areas are

748
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 3: decreasing and we don't have as much knowledge. And they've

749
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 3: even done it with students. They have done it with

750
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 3: college students in the US. So they all move around

751
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 3: when they go to college, and so they don't know

752
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:47,919
Speaker 3: the campus very well, and they give half of them

753
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 3: a wayfinder app on their phone, or they give half

754
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 3: them a map, and after six months they show that

755
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 3: the students don't know their way as well around if

756
00:34:55,640 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 3: they're using the device. They don't have as many friends,

757
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 3: so they don't have as much many connections at the

758
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 3: college after the six month period, and their SAT scores

759
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 3: are lower because they don't remember what they're actually learning

760
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 3: in their classes because they're using a wayfind app to

761
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 3: get to their classes. So the two things actually link

762
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 3: up with each other. So there's always exaggeratings, yeah, that

763
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 3: we don't think about all right, until we actually find

764
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,439
Speaker 3: the data for it. Nobody would have expected that until

765
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 3: we actually started researching it and going, oh wow, these

766
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 3: two things are actually linked and these are really important

767
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 3: reason why we have both the bas But then you

768
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:33,959
Speaker 3: think about it, you think a part of the cample

769
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 3: place thereas here, and then this is the GAMPS is

770
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 3: wrapped around all this, so it sort of makes sense.

771
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 3: That's why it evolved so that they could actually link

772
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 3: up with each other.

773
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 2: So, I mean, I did notice something like this when

774
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: I was shooting a TV show, a Bachelor with the

775
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 2: mansion where we would base it from was always far

776
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 2: away and like an semi rural part of Sydney. Lots

777
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 2: of twisty, turney, little dirt, roady things, and one particularly

778
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 2: difficult one to find. I noticed after a couple of

779
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 2: weeks there was I actually don't know how to get here.

780
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 2: And that's weird because I've been driving here every day

781
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: for three weeks and I.

782
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,959
Speaker 1: Found it very challenging. Now, but this is two thousand.

783
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 2: And fifty sixteen, fifteen sixteen, so I had been driving

784
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: using GPS for five years by this point because of

785
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 2: my phone in twenty ten, and I really struggle at first,

786
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: I really really struggle trying to figure out which way.

787
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 3: Do I go?

788
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 2: But now I since I've got my motorbike license, I

789
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 2: can't have a phone on my bike.

790
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: I don't think.

791
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: I see guys with it. They text me, you know,

792
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 2: delivering pad tires and stuff like. I don't know about that,

793
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: and I've found it to be far more.

794
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: It's very interesting.

795
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 2: So is that a challenge that we could give to

796
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: people is like, somewhere you go all the time, just

797
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 2: try try not to have your maps on.

798
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 3: Well, what I do is I look it up before

799
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 3: I go, because you always want to know how long

800
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 3: it's going to take you to get there right now,

801
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 3: So I look up how to get there before I go,

802
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 3: and I'll write down a few notes how to get there,

803
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: and then I'll try and get there without actually using

804
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 3: the anything because also distracting, right, because you're also looking

805
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 3: down at it constantly to work out where you're going,

806
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 3: Whereas if it's in your head, then you can actually

807
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 3: and you know the signposts that you need to actually turn.

808
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 2: Because not only not only are we growing that part

809
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 2: of our brain, we are increasing our ability to remember

810
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:23,479
Speaker 2: what happened when we.

811
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 3: Got there, and you get there exactly far out man,

812
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 3: that is, and we've seen that in the results from

813
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 3: the i Q tests. Right, IQ tests, we had what's

814
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 3: called the Flint effect where IQ so IQ tests started

815
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 3: whatever one hundred and fifty years ago, and we.

816
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: Let me guess, Flynn found it.

817
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 2: Flynn found got a name, stuff after yourself, got a name,

818
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: and everyone remembers.

819
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 3: You're not to these days, no one, really, No, no,

820
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 3: I can't call it Williams's dada.

821
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: Who was the last Who was the last one?

822
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 3: I don't know? Actually, should look that up.

823
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: Have love really got he really got right in there,

824
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 2: so did mister Fahrenheit.

825
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 1: But you know, yeah they don't now Asperger.

826
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 2: We can't talk about him because he was a terrible Nazi. Mean,

827
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: we don't give a fuck about it. What but Pavlov

828
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 2: said he might have been a terrible person.

829
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: So you can't. You can't.

830
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: Fuck man, you can't name any what was his name?

831
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: I had him on the show. Pacchinos was on the

832
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: show Pacchinos. Couldn't have remembered anything, couldn't name anything after himself.

833
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 3: No, okay, I think you're allowed. But yeah, everyone, yeah,

834
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 3: it's shunned these days. But yeah, So the IQ test

835
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 3: basically has a one hundred. One hundred is the average.

836
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 3: Your one hundred has to be your average of the population.

837
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 3: So every five years or so, they test a big

838
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 3: group of people and they adjusted because we found that

839
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 3: every year or every time they tested it, the IQ

840
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 3: was getting greater, and so they had to make a

841
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 3: little hart you had to adjust it according to And

842
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 3: that's a flein effect that our iqus are getting higher

843
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 3: because more people are getting educated and because nutrition and

844
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 3: all those sorts of things. Except for the last ten

845
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,240
Speaker 3: years when our IQ's actually been getting a general population

846
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 3: has been getting done.

847
00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: Can we call it the Zuckerberg effects.

848
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:01,760
Speaker 3: That's a good idea.

849
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: We're going to make a special exception for you.

850
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So we are getting dumb as a population.

851
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,439
Speaker 2: It's really sad, but it's and this is why, because we've,

852
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: you know, the last couple of months, we've seen what

853
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: happens to the parts of your brain if you're using

854
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: an l l M to do your writing for you

855
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 2: or to summarize a document or something like this.

856
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: But it could even be what's the name of the

857
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 1: thing again, Hang on a second, Oh yeah, it was. Yeah,

858
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: it was the third Chili Pepper's record.

859
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: That was the one that was two before that that

860
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 2: weren't really that great, but it was Mother's Milk was

861
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 2: the one that really really know that what happens when

862
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 2: we're not using our own memory and externalizing a lot

863
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 2: of our memory to a search engine.

864
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's two. There's two aspects. One is that

865
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,760
Speaker 3: we're not laying down new memories as well, because we're

866
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 3: just searching stuff rather than actually thinking for ourselves. And

867
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 3: the other thing is we're not pulling out old memories

868
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 3: to actually then reinforce them because our brain each night

869
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 3: we go through these different stages, and one of them

870
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 3: it goes through your memories and works out which ones

871
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 3: you're using, which ones you're not using, and starts leading

872
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 3: a few so you've got extra space. And it also

873
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 3: changes your old memories to make your life better. So

874
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 3: we're constantly changing our memories to make life better in.

875
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 2: This headonic recall. Yeah, I know, as a sober person,

876
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 2: I know all about it.

877
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: What do you mean last night was amazing? Are you

878
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: kidding me? Ah?

879
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: So I've got picked out, kicked out after pulling my

880
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 2: pants down on the pool table and vomiting on you.

881
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 3: But no, it wasn't that awesome. Time. Awesome time. Yeah,

882
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 3: so we're constantly changing our memories as well. But if

883
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 3: you're not recalling those memories, then you don't Your brain

884
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 3: just thinks you don't need them, so get through them.

885
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: We know that from testing with students. With students, if

886
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 3: you do a whole topic and then you test a

887
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 3: bunch of students, they'll get a certain mark, and then

888
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 3: you test them the next day and they'll be about

889
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 3: twenty five percent poor on exactly the same test because

890
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 3: of the fact their brain overnight just deleted a bunch

891
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 3: of stuff because I went, oh, we've done that test.

892
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 3: Don't have to hold onto any of that information, which

893
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 3: is why testing in schools is dumb thing.

894
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: But I heard that with waiters. A waiter can I

895
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 2: remember three courses and every drink of a ten person

896
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 2: table until the moment the bill is paid and then

897
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: it's gone. And speaking of bachelor, I would have to

898
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 2: remember sometimes six hundred words that I was given less

899
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 2: than twenty minutes before it have to do it, and

900
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 2: I have a way of remembering that stuff, but the

901
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 2: moment it was shot, I couldn't tell you what I said.

902
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: It's like out of the window.

903
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 3: The brain's great right, and it's conservative.

904
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 2: When I see these apps, like, no, it's a ring

905
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 2: that here is everything you've ever done and you remember

906
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 2: it for I don't want to.

907
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: Remember everything I've ever done. I don't want to know.

908
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: Just keep the things that serve me.

909
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah. But the big problem in society now,

910
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 3: I remember years ago, right, you go to the pub

911
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 3: and you spend hours arguing about who was it that

912
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 3: played in that game back in front of it.

913
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 2: It's how the Guinness Book of World Records was invented.

914
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: They needed a book to be the tome of knowledge.

915
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 2: You're like, no, no, no, it was that guy who seventeen

916
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 2: swords in ninety sixty one before they laid outdated it.

917
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. So you'd argue for hours and hours and hours

918
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 3: overberes and then you get home and then someone look

919
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 3: it up in the Guinness Book of Records and they

920
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 3: call everyone and say, hey, it was I was right.

921
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 3: You're all wrong, right, But you'd spend all that time

922
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 3: thinking about it, But now we don't. Someone says blah

923
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 3: blah blah, and someone else goes, no, that's not right.

924
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 3: Let's see no man, and it's gone, and conversations are gone, right, Yeah,

925
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 3: we don't have long conversations anymore because everyone can just

926
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 3: look stuff up and proof you're wrong rather than having

927
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 3: a debait discussion.

928
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 2: So people listening have probably I mean I already like

929
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 2: what can we do with ourselves with our kids to

930
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: cateract this?

931
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 3: So that's that's the thing, right, is that if I'm

932
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 3: with you and we're having a chat, let's not pick

933
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 3: up our phone. Let's just have a chat. Let's have

934
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 3: a discussion, and if we don't agree with something, then

935
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 3: let's talk thread through rather than looking it up. Right,

936
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,280
Speaker 3: let's not pull out our phones when we're face to face.

937
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 3: It's almost as though we need a new set of

938
00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 3: guidelines or etiquette for society now where the person in

939
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 3: front of you is the most important. You know, we

940
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 3: used to have those old books and tell you what was.

941
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: Emily post, walk over this side and your thing, don't

942
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 2: put your elbows on your thing and all that.

943
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 3: Right, we don't need any of that anymore. What we

944
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 3: need is how do we actually interact with each other? Yeah,

945
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 3: when we've got devices around, when do we actually use them?

946
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,919
Speaker 3: When do we not use devices? And I think maybe

947
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 3: that's the next book, right, what we should and shouldn't

948
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 3: be doing.

949
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 2: There was you know what, I did see a phone

950
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 2: case that had this effect back in the day, because

951
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 2: not using phones as an addict. I will find my

952
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 2: way around every single screen time restriction app that there is.

953
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 2: Doesn't matter if I've paid three hundred bucks or which

954
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 2: I did once, it doesn't matter.

955
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: I will find a way out of it.

956
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: I even got my wife to put my past cut

957
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 2: in like I'm six, right, I still find a way

958
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 2: around it.

959
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: The only thing I found that works it's all my fridge.

960
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: I'll show you on the way up.

961
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 2: It's an NFC thing that magnetizes to my fridge. I

962
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: tap my phone to it and my phone will not

963
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 2: open Instagram or TikTok or anything until I tap it again.

964
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: And it's in the house.

965
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 2: So if I'm out, I went on holidays, went up

966
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 2: to Queenslave for three weeks. With that, I was like, oh,

967
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 2: and it was amazing. But there was a time back

968
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 2: in the day of the payphone, it was like, how

969
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 2: do we stop people from being on the payphone for

970
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 2: hours and clogging it up? They made the handle way

971
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 2: about four killer groups, so you'd be after a while

972
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: be like okay, yeah, cool, I saw the other day.

973
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 1: I saw a phone case that was about that. It

974
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 1: was about three kilogrounds.

975
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 2: You had to bolt your phone into it, And that's

976
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 2: a pretty good idea because it was heavy to hold.

977
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 2: Then you're not going to but we you know, not

978
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 2: having a phone around, you know, besides, how do we

979
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 2: put guardrails around what? As I said, lightning's already out

980
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: of the bottle, the two spaces out of the tube.

981
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 2: And anyone that's tried to take a screen off a

982
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 2: kid when they're in that addictive kind of loop state

983
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 2: will know the Tasmanian devil of explosion that shows up.

984
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: How do we have how do we handle that?

985
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 3: Well? You know that, right, and I'm sure you experienced it, right,

986
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what you're addicted to it if you're

987
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 3: actually in that state at that time, someone tries, no

988
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 3: matter how much you love them, if someone tries to

989
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 3: actually stop you when you're in that, yeah, it's not

990
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,959
Speaker 3: going to work, right, It's going to be a blow up. Right,

991
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 3: So we need to not do it. Then we need

992
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 3: to do it when they're not on the devices, and

993
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 3: we need to educate them. And the thing that I

994
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 3: find works really well with teenagers especially, is to explain

995
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 3: to them that there's a whole there's a small number,

996
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 3: whole number. There's not a whole number. There's a small

997
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 3: number of billionaires over in the US who are making

998
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 3: billions of dollars out of their time, and would they

999
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 3: be willing to work for me for five or six

1000
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 3: hours a day for free so that I can make

1001
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 3: lots of money because I'd like to be a billionaire

1002
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 3: like them. And they're manipulating you into working for them,

1003
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 3: because that's what they're really doing. And teenagers don't like

1004
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 3: being manipulated, right, and so they get very angry by that,

1005
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 3: and a lot of them will then go, oh, yeah,

1006
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 3: that I'm not doing that anymore, right, because that's really

1007
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 3: what's happening, right, We're being manipulated by these guys so

1008
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 3: that they can, you know whatever, build another rocket that

1009
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 3: looks like a penis so that they can go into

1010
00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 3: space with a whole bunch of music.

1011
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: I have to I have to believe that that was deliberate.

1012
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 2: I have to believe it that when he saw the design,

1013
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 2: Bezos went, yes, I like space cock, Let's go for it.

1014
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 3: And then I'm going to stick a bunch of really

1015
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 3: attractive women in.

1016
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 2: It because I've got fuck you money and let's go

1017
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 2: it was.

1018
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: And give me the cowboy hat. Great.

1019
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 2: I'm happy for him because he went for it. It

1020
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 2: is like we said before, it's a similar crima of connection.

1021
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 2: It gives us just enough that remind us of it.

1022
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 2: It's like when you eat chicken chips doesn't taste like

1023
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 2: chicken really, but it's just enough of you, like oh yeah,

1024
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 2: or that's just enough of it there to give you

1025
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 2: the feeling that you might be getting the thing you

1026
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 2: actually really need. So how can we get those things

1027
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: into our life? And you know, I mean it seems

1028
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: all very very simple stuff, but it's hard to do

1029
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 2: when you know, I could literally watch your man start

1030
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 2: a flash mob in a Woolworths, you know, for ten

1031
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: minutes and go that's amazing, you know, even though my

1032
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 2: wife's sitting next to me, which happened last night.

1033
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 3: But how beneficial is that to you? Right? And how

1034
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 3: much more rewarding would it have been to actually sit

1035
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 3: down with your wife and have a chat about whatever,

1036
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 3: what are you going to do today? I feel like

1037
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 3: that would have been way more rewarding for you and

1038
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 3: your brain and your body because of the stress release

1039
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 3: and the relief and all of those sorts of things,

1040
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 3: and actually spending that time on the device. And so

1041
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 3: we need to start thinking about that this is an

1042
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 3: addiction and we need to actually control it. And there's

1043
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 3: many ways you can control it, right. You can have

1044
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 3: reminders on your screen. You can try some of those

1045
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 3: different apps that are available which will stop you. I

1046
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 3: have an app on my phone which makes it all

1047
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 3: gray scale, so it doesn't look all fancy, right, and

1048
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 3: then also when I click on an app, it then

1049
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 3: makes me wait about four or five seconds. It was

1050
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 3: really good and it frustrates the hell which makes you

1051
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:02,959
Speaker 3: feel I don't want to look at that a because

1052
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 3: it just annoyed the hell out of me. Right, and

1053
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 3: then it says how long do you want to be

1054
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 3: on it? One minute, five minutes, fifteen minutes, and then

1055
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 3: after the amount of time it kicks you off. You know,

1056
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 3: I need that because it's addictive and I don't want

1057
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 3: to be addicted to it, so I use that. But

1058
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 3: there's lots of other ones as well. There's those boxes

1059
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 3: that you can put your phone in and then it

1060
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 3: won't let you into the box for a couple of hours.

1061
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 3: Or whatever people smash them.

1062
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: Because let's be really clear, much like how the two

1063
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 2: words carbon footprint were invented by a fossil fuel company

1064
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 2: to put the blame on the end user. It's not

1065
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 2: your fault that you can't put it down. Can we

1066
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 2: talk a bit about that.

1067
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, it is an addictive program, right that they've

1068
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 3: designed them to be addictive, and it's really sad. I

1069
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 3: mean recently, right, there's multiple court cases going on in

1070
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 3: the US at the moment against the social media companies

1071
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 3: because they know it's addictive and both I think it's

1072
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 3: who was I forget which company. I think TikTok has

1073
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 3: already paid out huge amounts of money because they don't

1074
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:09,439
Speaker 3: want to go to court because they don't want people

1075
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 3: to find out about it. So that's going to be.

1076
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 3: But you know, they are addictive, and they use intermittent

1077
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 3: or random reinforcement schedules to increase play. And it doesn't

1078
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 3: matter whether you're talking about social media, or you're talking

1079
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 3: about gaming, or you're talking about pornography, or you're talking

1080
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 3: about the educational apps. They all use. Gamer fine, they

1081
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 3: use these interimate reinforcement schedules and what they're doing is

1082
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 3: they're reinforcing you just enough so that you keep playing,

1083
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 3: but not too much that you get a big reward

1084
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 3: and go, oh, that's enough for me. And so that's

1085
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 3: what they're doing and they're all acknowledge that. But then

1086
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 3: social media is even cleverer because they've called it social

1087
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 3: to make you think as though you've been social, but

1088
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 3: there's nothing social about social media. Social media is about advertising,

1089
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,879
Speaker 3: and you're either advertising a company, you're advertising event, you're

1090
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 3: advertising an organization, or you're advertising yourself, right, and teaching

1091
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 3: kids that advertise, especially teenager, that advertising yourself so that

1092
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,399
Speaker 3: you will have friends and so that you will get

1093
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 3: likes is really really bad for their mental health. And

1094
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 3: that's so obvious to me anyway. Right, if you're teaching

1095
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 3: your kids, if they're being reinforced by the fact that

1096
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 3: they need to advertise, they need to put photos of

1097
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 3: themselves up for people to like them, what's that going

1098
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 3: to do them later on? And we know what that

1099
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 3: does to them later on, and we know the mental

1100
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 3: health issues that are going on. Right, there's huge mental

1101
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 3: health issues associated with social media. There's huge problems in

1102
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 3: ANAREX innovation innovator, which is an area I used to research,

1103
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:46,240
Speaker 3: and we're seeing huge increases even with boys now dysmorphic issues.

1104
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,439
Speaker 3: I don't know, they're trying to be muscly and they're drinking.

1105
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 2: You know, like I know, I know, I know personally,

1106
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 2: No twenty two year old guys on testosterone.

1107
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: He's twenty two.

1108
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 3: He doesn't have a drop in testosterone, then he needs no.

1109
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 2: But he does have a drop in sperm count and

1110
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 2: he will forever. Yeah, because his test is gone to

1111
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 2: come bat it and that's it. He's deliberately made himself

1112
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 2: infertile for the games and he goes, yeah, I know,

1113
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:12,959
Speaker 2: I just want to be big.

1114
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 3: Why so that you can take photos of himself to

1115
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 3: put it on Instagram or whatever, so that he can

1116
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 3: get likes, so that he can feel as though he's

1117
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 3: actually got friends who aren't real friends.

1118
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1119
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 3: The more friends you have on social media, the less

1120
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 3: friends you have in real life, and the less time

1121
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 3: you spend with people. We need to realize this isn't

1122
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 3: social and there's nothing social about it.

1123
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 2: There's and the I mean, I know your book is

1124
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 2: aimed at children, but I think it's also you know,

1125
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 2: speaking with you about this today has an opportunity to

1126
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 2: bring us up. It has such incredible effects on And

1127
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 2: then you know, maybe I don't know too much about

1128
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 2: how women pleasure themselves by themselves, but I know how

1129
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 2: I pleasure myself when I'm by myself.

1130
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: And I was speaking with a mate the other day.

1131
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: He works in construction.

1132
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 2: Don't want to have you speak with another bloke on

1133
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 2: his jobs and over at Smoko the guy was telling

1134
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 2: him so like, oh, no, no, no, I can't come

1135
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 2: unless I've paid for the girl on only fans to

1136
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: make me a video to say my name. I've got

1137
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 2: to have that connection. I can't come from just watching porn.

1138
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 2: I have to have that. And I think to myself, like,

1139
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 2: how damaged is the parts of his brain that are

1140
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 2: wired for the most glorious, godlike moment of human connection

1141
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 2: that we are designed for. That possibly if he even

1142
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 2: ever was with a real partner, he might not then

1143
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 2: be able to have the orgasm you spoke of and

1144
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 2: create a child.

1145
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 3: Like that's insane. The whole thing's insane. And you know

1146
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 3: a lot of people jump up and down and go,

1147
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 3: you know, it's nothing wrong with pornography, And yeah, sure

1148
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 3: there is nothing wrong with pornography. When I was a kid,

1149
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 3: because it was a magazine, right, And it was a

1150
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 3: magazine and that was very sedate. And if you're lucky

1151
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,839
Speaker 3: enough to find one under your dad's beat, and you'd

1152
00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 3: all sit around and look at it and.

1153
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 2: Then think about, oh my god, my dad wan to this. Yeah,

1154
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,479
Speaker 2: doesn't Why is the access left on this particular point.

1155
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 3: No, that's what I Yeah, but what they've got access

1156
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 3: to now is far worse than all of that. Plus

1157
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 3: is there are algorithms running in the background which push

1158
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 3: them down negative reach, right, and they end up in

1159
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 3: very misogynistic areas of the pornography area, right, and they

1160
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 3: end up with weird wed weird we'd, we'd we'd ideas

1161
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 3: about sex and about females. And we know that the

1162
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 3: more teenager spends on pornography or internet pornography, the more

1163
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 3: likely they are to be violent towards women, the more

1164
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 3: likely they are to have negative thoughts about women, and

1165
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 3: the more likely they are to be misogynistic. So you know,

1166
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 3: the violence towards women is increasing society, we know, and

1167
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 3: that can be again correlated with internet pornography and the.

1168
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: Tricks that they can draw the causation though from that.

1169
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 3: No, so that is called correlational because it's really hard

1170
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 3: because I mean, to draw causation, we'd have to get

1171
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 3: two groups of male So one of the more pornography

1172
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 3: and one of the non pornography. Yeah, and see if

1173
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 3: they become But the more you do spend on And yes,

1174
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 3: you could argue, well, people who are misogynistic are more

1175
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:13,919
Speaker 3: likely be on porn, but I don't think that's true.

1176
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, so let's let we've already, if we

1177
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 2: haven't scheduled enough already, let me ask you, now, how

1178
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 2: young are kids accessing this kind of pornography.

1179
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 3: It's it's pretty scary. The data's constantly evolving, but I

1180
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 3: think it's something like I think I read recently and

1181
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 3: I don't hang me if the quote if the numbers

1182
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 3: aren't exactly correct, but I think it was something like

1183
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 3: thirty five or forty percent of kids under ten have

1184
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 3: seen explicit pornography, either been sent to them or they've

1185
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 3: just come across it somewhere.

1186
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: What do I fram just spasm like, yeah, I mean,

1187
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 1: I had.

1188
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 3: I do a lot of stuff for psychologists, presentations for psychologists,

1189
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 3: and I remember one psychologist I'm not going to name

1190
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 3: names or anything like that said and This was a

1191
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 3: number of years ago. She was saying that one of

1192
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 3: the clients she was working with a very young girl

1193
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 3: who I think was about three or four, and the

1194
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 3: problem was that her mom was driving her home from

1195
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 3: a playdate and she'd been at a playdate and she

1196
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 3: turned around to her mum and said, Mom, does daddy

1197
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 3: piss on you when you're in bed alone? And she said,

1198
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 3: what do you know? Then she asked her and she said, oh,

1199
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 3: because she was at a playdate with another friend, another

1200
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 3: three year old. But that three year old had an

1201
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 3: older brother who was eight or nine, who were showing

1202
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,399
Speaker 3: them some of the pornography videos and one of them

1203
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 3: was around urination and so on, and this girl was

1204
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 3: so upset by it. Yeah, she had to actually, you know,

1205
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:49,879
Speaker 3: I mean that's an anecdote, and I don't know usually

1206
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 3: use it.

1207
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 1: It is an extreme case, but this is what could happen.

1208
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen you know, wolf, I keep asking, you know,

1209
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,959
Speaker 2: and because they figure it out, just turn Siri off

1210
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:05,240
Speaker 2: on your lock screen.

1211
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: Just do it.

1212
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 2: You can find other ways to set timers and things,

1213
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 2: because he will just say it into the phone and

1214
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 2: he will start to see it. But it's going to

1215
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 2: like right now, it's Minecraft shit, which we play for

1216
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 2: half an hour only at a time, and sitting next

1217
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 2: to each other in a realm with just him and me.

1218
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 2: That's it on this iPad, and he's got another one

1219
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 2: that his mum uses. But it won't be long until

1220
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 2: it was like boobs and then he's it's all there and.

1221
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 3: It won't be normal boobs. No, it won't be anything normal.

1222
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 1: One's a different size and you know they don't look

1223
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: yeah no.

1224
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 3: I mean, what was that recent thing, something like ninety

1225
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 3: percent of teenage males didn't realize females have PUBI care

1226
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:53,400
Speaker 3: because all the pornography stuff is all shaven. There's no Yeah, I.

1227
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 1: Might, I might need to have a light enough for

1228
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: this conversation.

1229
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 2: One of the things you speak about, I mean the

1230
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 2: good news in the book, there's lots of solutions for

1231
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 2: the So let's just and we'll get well.

1232
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 3: And your point just then was beautiful, right is you know,

1233
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 3: if your kid wants the game, sit down and gain

1234
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 3: with them, so you're doing it with them for a

1235
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,240
Speaker 3: short period of time, and have a timer, and only

1236
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 3: do it for that short period of time, and then

1237
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 3: move on to something and then go and do something

1238
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 3: else fun with them, right, and that's you're there. So

1239
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 3: you know, because things like roadblocks and stuff is full

1240
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 3: of pedophiles, right, people go, oh, it's roadblocks for it

1241
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 3: to kids, and it's like, yeah, what do you think

1242
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 3: pedophiles are looking for? Right, something that's with kids and

1243
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 3: they can chat with the kids and then they can

1244
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 3: DM and they can start.

1245
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: If you're right.

1246
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 2: I had a company that had a chat function and

1247
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 2: we knew it was full of pedophiles. Where's the you know,

1248
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 2: it's like the line of my I talk about it

1249
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 2: sometimes the grub to goals ratio of like now that

1250
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,959
Speaker 2: football he's a total grub versus Oh, look they.

1251
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: Kicked a lot of goals. Yeah, he's not a great

1252
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:52,919
Speaker 1: off field.

1253
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 2: Like at what point, Like, how many billions of revenue

1254
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 2: do you need to be getting for you to sit

1255
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 2: there in your board meeting and go, so, how where

1256
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 2: are we on the pedophile problem? Jimmy, Oh, well, let's

1257
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 2: work on that for the next quarter.

1258
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: At what point?

1259
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 3: I've had a lot of discussions with politicians, especially last

1260
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 3: year during the social media ban and all that rest.

1261
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: It's good that they got you involved. Man's yeah, so I.

1262
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 3: Get to chat to a lot of I've got to

1263
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 3: chat to a lot of politicians in different levels. Actually,

1264
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 3: I was talking to Lord Nash last night, who put

1265
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 3: the social media ban into the House of Lords in

1266
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 3: the UK because he wants to Yeah, he's now going

1267
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 3: to get it through that lower House, and so we were

1268
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 3: chatting as well. But this wasn't him, this is other politicians,

1269
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 3: but Australian politicians. I will talk to them about what

1270
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 3: we can do to actually improve social media. And you know,

1271
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 3: you get rid of the likes, you get rid of

1272
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 3: the algorithms, you make them use different algorithms. Because we

1273
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 3: know that TikTok, for example, uses a different algorithm in

1274
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 3: China than it uses everywhere else in the world. And

1275
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 3: the algorithm in China actually feeds kids positive messages and

1276
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 3: tells them, you know, listen to your parents and go

1277
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 3: get go to school, and do your homework and eat

1278
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 3: healthy food and do exercise.

1279
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 2: Right.

1280
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 3: It feeds them the good stuff, whereas all the other

1281
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 3: algorithms that are around the world don't. They do the opposite.

1282
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 3: And so I've talked to them about this and I've

1283
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 3: had politicians respond to me by saying, yeah, but if

1284
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 3: we get rid of all of those things and make

1285
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 3: them so that they're good. Then people won't want to

1286
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 3: use them, and these companies will go broke. And my

1287
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 3: response is, if they're not ethical, then they shouldn't exist, right,

1288
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 3: they should go broke. If they can't do these things ethically,

1289
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 3: then they shouldn't actually be doing so.

1290
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 2: These politicians have any interest in the public health care

1291
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 2: cost of these things in our community, because we have.

1292
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: A public health care system in Australia. What are the

1293
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 1: greatest things on the planet.

1294
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 2: When I came back here, I kissed the tarmac like

1295
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 2: I was the pope man like, oh my god, free

1296
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 2: healthcare and no guns.

1297
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: Amazing?

1298
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 2: Do they even consider the public health care costs of

1299
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 2: having these products?

1300
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 3: The problem is that there's a big that's at arm's length, Right,

1301
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 3: is the public.

1302
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:01,959
Speaker 1: Health climate change down the road?

1303
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, it's something that will happen, but we won't

1304
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 3: be chatting, we won't be charged, right, will already have

1305
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 3: a job somewhere else, Yeah, yeah, and so that's not really.

1306
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 1: Going to I'll be working at a social media company.

1307
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 3: That room what really mattered?

1308
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: The golden escalator.

1309
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a response I'm going to get tomorrow if

1310
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 3: I turn around and say we're going to actually make

1311
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 3: all these.

1312
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 2: You mentioned in the we spoke about TikTok and that,

1313
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, in mainland China, a fifteen year old

1314
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 2: boy will be shown an aspirational thing of like, this

1315
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 2: is a kid who is fifteen and now he did

1316
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 2: mechanical engineering, and look what he's doing at.

1317
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 1: This amazing ev startup.

1318
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 2: Whereas here that fifteen year old boy was like, he's

1319
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 2: a fifty year old boy, you know, writing a boogie

1320
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 2: board down a roof and falling on his face. Yeah,

1321
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 2: or kicking his friend in the nuts again again, And

1322
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 2: that's what fifteen year old boys do. Which is I mean,

1323
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 2: I don't want to I'll just say, not all walls

1324
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 2: of aught with guns. It's a it's insidious. But there's

1325
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 2: a condition. Is it a medical condition? There's something called

1326
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 2: TikTok brain.

1327
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: What is that?

1328
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's just the idea that you can't actually

1329
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 3: tend to things for a long period of time, right,

1330
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 3: you can only attend to things for a very short

1331
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 3: period of time. And the actual fact TikTok videos U should

1332
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 3: be longer than they are now because people start getting

1333
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 3: TikTok brain, so they weren't actually looking at those slightly

1334
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 3: longer videos. So they shorten the videos so that they

1335
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 3: keep watching them, and they'll shorten them again when we

1336
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 3: get and that's because they are attentional mechanisms. All of

1337
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 3: our abilities are based on use it or lose it,

1338
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 3: and if you're not using it, then you lose it.

1339
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 3: And so we've got all these teenagers everybody adults as well, right,

1340
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 3: who are looking at these videos that are short, and

1341
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 3: so that's all they can handle. And then once they

1342
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 3: get used to that, then they're going to make them

1343
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 3: shorter so that that's all they can handle. And that's

1344
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,439
Speaker 3: basically TikTok brain, which is why Netflix, right, they're talking

1345
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 3: now about Netflix now won't have complicated storylines because people

1346
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 3: can't keep up any second screening. They keep feeding them

1347
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 3: what the storylines about, because people can't attend for long

1348
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 3: periods of time. Whereas before, I remember I showed my

1349
01:01:54,200 --> 01:02:00,120
Speaker 3: kids what's it called Breakfast Club? I showed my daughter.

1350
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 2: Breakfast Oh, you can't show your films a film from

1351
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 2: the you can't show your kids a film from the apes.

1352
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 3: It was like five minutes in and she's like, this

1353
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 3: is so boring, mate, And turned it off. I loved

1354
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 3: it when I was there, right.

1355
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 2: That was like I think it was. We've talked about

1356
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 2: a lot of the scary stuff. I think it was

1357
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,919
Speaker 2: guns n' roses w Actual Rose. He wrote this great line,

1358
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 2: I used to do a little bit, the little wouldn't

1359
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 2: do it. So a little got more and more. Just

1360
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 2: keep trying to get a little better, just a little

1361
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 2: better than before. And that is a part of any

1362
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 2: part of your life, whether it be sex or shopping

1363
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 2: or anything. Then you, my friend, have got a disregulated

1364
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 2: reward system, and you have to remember that a part

1365
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 2: of that.

1366
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: The first symptom of addiction is convincing that you don't

1367
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 1: have it.

1368
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 2: And if you find yourself justifying, that's the time go

1369
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 2: and go, go seek help before it gets worse.

1370
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 1: And there's plenty of help.

1371
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 2: And you know, we've spoken a lot about how where

1372
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 2: things are, but particularly when it comes to families, what

1373
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 2: are some things you can do? You outline some principles

1374
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 2: in the book. Let's let's leave people with some things

1375
01:02:56,760 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 2: that can actually do today. Principles in the book because

1376
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 2: you kindot go go through some things where we're able

1377
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 2: to incorporate anyway lives and bearing in mind getting kids

1378
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 2: off screens. Like when I stop drinking. It takes a

1379
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 2: little while for everything to kind of settle. There's going

1380
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 2: to be a transitional period. It's not going to be

1381
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:14,919
Speaker 2: great tomorrow. So what are some things we can start

1382
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 2: incorporating into our families to help us deal with this stuff?

1383
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think setting things up. So we've got to

1384
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 3: have alternatives. Right. We can't just go You've got to

1385
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 3: stop doing that, and then they're just like, what do

1386
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 3: I do now? Twitter on my thumbs? Right, You've got

1387
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 3: to give them alternatives. And when you go into rehab,

1388
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 3: what happens They give you other You've got a whole

1389
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:33,479
Speaker 3: schedule of things you're doing all day, Right, They don't

1390
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 3: just let you sit in a room and feel sorry

1391
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 3: for yourself, right, And so we've got to give them

1392
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 3: alternatives and things like playing games. Right, remember the old

1393
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 3: ball games, and there's some fantastic ball games around. I

1394
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 3: played Katan with my son and my wife the other

1395
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 3: day on the weekend, right, and we actually played two games.

1396
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 3: And that takes a while to play, and it's a

1397
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 3: lot of fun, and you learn a lot of really

1398
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 3: really good skills about how to socialize, how to negotiate,

1399
01:03:56,360 --> 01:04:00,040
Speaker 3: how to cooperate with each other, how to winning. My

1400
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 3: son usually wins. I actually won this weekend, which is awesome.

1401
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 3: And so you know, facial expressions, actually interacting with each other,

1402
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 3: those things. And there's some awesome games now around that

1403
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 3: you can actually buy. So buy some games that you

1404
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 3: can actually play with and sit down and say, hey,

1405
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 3: let's play this. Put the dot, let's actually play this.

1406
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 3: And also organizing for them to actually do fun stuff.

1407
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 3: But you've got to do it as a community, right,

1408
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 3: You've got to talk to the other parents that they're

1409
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 3: actually friends with. And that's where I was really lucky

1410
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 3: because I started thinking about this quite a while ago,

1411
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 3: and so I talked to all of my kids friends

1412
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 3: kids parents, and so they also are aware of this,

1413
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 3: so they do similar things. So they can actually connect

1414
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 3: in real life and do things in real life. You know,

1415
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 3: get them involved in sport, especially team sports, because that's

1416
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 3: really good. But also you get them to just go

1417
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,200
Speaker 3: down the park and have fun. Let them do stuff.

1418
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 3: That's what's really important, Like we used to do stuff.

1419
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: I'm busy, man, I've got stuff to do.

1420
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 2: I'm trying to keep the light side and I'm getting

1421
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 2: home from work late, and you know, the kids being a.

1422
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 1: Rat bag, like I'm flig on my phone. They can

1423
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: just watch you two.

1424
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 3: We now are less productive than we were fifteen years ago.

1425
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 3: We're all feeling busy today, not because we're getting more done,

1426
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 3: but because we're actually getting more distracted. We're constantly distracted

1427
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 3: because of our phones. Productivity apps actually make you less

1428
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 3: productive because they're constantly actually interrupting your day. You actually

1429
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 3: need to get off the productivity apps. You need to

1430
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 3: get your phone out of the way, and you need

1431
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 3: to concentrate on what you're doing, and you need to

1432
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:35,640
Speaker 3: do one thing at a time. And that's been the

1433
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 3: most you know, that's the most better look up all

1434
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 3: calls should look up Pomodoro technique, right, which has been

1435
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 3: shown the most productive way to.

1436
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 2: I use this when I wrote my first book. Could

1437
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 2: you explain this techniquet?

1438
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, pomodoro is a tomato in Italian. It was

1439
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 3: Italian researchers who originally did it over one hundred years

1440
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 3: ago and it's been replicated millions of times now. And basically,

1441
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:58,920
Speaker 3: you set a timer for twenty five minutes and you

1442
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 3: focus on one thing during that twenty five minutes, and

1443
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:03,439
Speaker 3: after twenty five minutes, you stand up and you move

1444
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 3: for five minutes, and then you sit down and you

1445
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 3: do another twenty five minutes, and you do that four times,

1446
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 3: and you've got two hours of productive work. And it's

1447
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 3: the best thing you can actually do. But you've got

1448
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 3: to get rid of all the distractions, right, and you've

1449
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 3: actually just got to focus on that one thing, and

1450
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 3: you've got to stop at the twenty five minute mark,

1451
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:17,720
Speaker 3: because then you reset your brain and when you sit down,

1452
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 3: you start much more easily because of the fact that

1453
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 3: you've actually stopped halfway through doing something. And so it's

1454
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 3: awesome and it's a great way to get shit done

1455
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 3: and people everyone should do it. And I actually use

1456
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 3: it in school, so I teach teachers this technique, and

1457
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 3: we use it with kids with ADHD and kids with

1458
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 3: autism and kids who have distraction problems. And we started

1459
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 3: a really short duration some of them. We will start

1460
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 3: at one minute and then five minutes off and then

1461
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 3: one minute and then slowly build it up. And you

1462
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 3: can get kids all of a sudden sitting still for

1463
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five minutes and actually been productive members of

1464
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 3: the classroom by using this technique, and every classroom should

1465
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 3: have a timer and the teacher should go out, We're

1466
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 3: going to do this for twenty minutes and set the

1467
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 3: timer and let it go, so the students know how

1468
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 3: long they've got and how long going. We got to

1469
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 3: concentrate for and all of those things, which is something

1470
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,040
Speaker 3: as a freebie for all the teachers out there. Do it.

1471
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 3: Don't make huge difference in your class. What I love

1472
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 3: to focus on one thing?

1473
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 2: What I love during that. When I was doing that,

1474
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 2: I actually I stretched out it. I got up to

1475
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:17,280
Speaker 2: like fifty five and five. I got it pretty good.

1476
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 2: But what I had a little a piece of paper

1477
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 2: and I posted thing to the right hand side of

1478
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,919
Speaker 2: the keyboard. And when a thing came into my brain,

1479
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 2: it's like I know, I'd write it down.

1480
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 1: And then my brain I go, that's.

1481
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 2: Cool, because I said the compulsive disorder. I have a

1482
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 2: brain that ruminates. I had to get it out and

1483
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 2: something about putting it down a piece of paper, like

1484
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 2: oh I've got to call that thing.

1485
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 1: Oh why is France so far away? To frogs? Like chocolate?

1486
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 2: Like you know, just writing all this shit down and

1487
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 2: then in that five minutes, I'll go, do you I

1488
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 2: wanted to look at any of this. Do you I

1489
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 2: wanted to action anything? Do I need to do anything?

1490
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 3: No?

1491
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 2: And that's what really really helped me. What are some

1492
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 2: other things we won't be able to do in our family,

1493
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 2: particularly around you mentioned in the book you mentioned screen time,

1494
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 2: but you also mentioned I time.

1495
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 3: Yes, having conversations teenagers, especially when you first get off

1496
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 3: the devices, they're going to have trouble with eyed eye.

1497
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 3: You and I sitting here having a great conversation, They're

1498
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 3: probably going to have trouble with that. And I find

1499
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 3: the best way to get around that is actually go

1500
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 3: for drive. So you get them in the car. I'm

1501
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 3: sitting next to you in the car, you have the

1502
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 3: radio on whatever channel they want to listen to, and

1503
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 3: then you talk to them, but they don't have to

1504
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 3: look at you because you both look in ahead. And

1505
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 3: that's a great way to start it and get them

1506
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 3: in the mood for actually talking and stuff that comes up.

1507
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 3: Just giving them that time, just say let's go for

1508
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:35,160
Speaker 3: drive for twenty minutes, and giving them that time is

1509
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 3: really rewarding for them, and you'll find that they'll actually

1510
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 3: really appreciate the fact that you're actually giving them that

1511
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:42,800
Speaker 3: and then after you've done that for a while, you'll

1512
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 3: actually be able to sit opposite them and actually just

1513
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 3: have time to actually chat. And I love chatting with

1514
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:50,639
Speaker 3: my teenagers. The stuff I find out about the world,

1515
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 3: it's amazing, and the stuff that they're doing, so.

1516
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:55,800
Speaker 2: Like looking at kids in the eye and helping our

1517
01:08:55,880 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 2: kids look other people in the eye's I've noticed that

1518
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 2: I see it with the young people in my life.

1519
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 1: It's different to how it used to be.

1520
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:07,720
Speaker 3: It is. I used to find it frustrating. I used

1521
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 3: to have neuroscience first, your neuroscience course, and I'd have

1522
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 3: a thousand over a thousand suits in the course, and

1523
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 3: often i'd get kids come down to the front and

1524
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 3: when I ask questions and they'd be looking at my

1525
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,320
Speaker 3: feet rather than actually looking in the eye when they

1526
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 3: actually and that also you'd start giving them an ant

1527
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 3: and then they pull out their phone because it beat.

1528
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 3: I'm going to go over it again now, bad luck.

1529
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 2: So now you mentioned it, let me ask what are

1530
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 2: your thoughts on notifications?

1531
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 3: I turn them all off. If you turn off all

1532
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 3: your notifications within two weeks, you'll improve your mental health.

1533
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 1: Huh. Why?

1534
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 3: Because it's constantly distracting you from what you actually need

1535
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 3: to be concentrating on, and it's increasing your stress levels

1536
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:48,800
Speaker 3: because each time you get one, it's stressed. Right. It's

1537
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 3: an alert. It's actually designed based on your mead dealer response,

1538
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,160
Speaker 3: which sets off your fight fight a freeze response, right,

1539
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 3: and so that increases your heart rate and all of

1540
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 3: those things, which increases likely if you have a heart attack.

1541
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:04,679
Speaker 3: So turn them off and within a very short period

1542
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 3: of time you'll actually.

1543
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 1: What if I miss text? What if I'm like, you know, look, I.

1544
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,879
Speaker 3: Often get that, especially from parents. I'll present at parenting

1545
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 3: things and I'll say, turn off all your notifications and

1546
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:18,160
Speaker 3: you'll feel much better. And I often get parents coming,

1547
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:20,439
Speaker 3: oh I need it for work, da da da da da.

1548
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:22,759
Speaker 3: I have a very good, good, very good friend who's

1549
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:25,760
Speaker 3: a surgeon and he has all these notifications turned off

1550
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:27,599
Speaker 3: because he doesn't want to get distracted all the time

1551
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:30,360
Speaker 3: and he wants to be relaxed. And people actually don't

1552
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 3: instagram him when someone goes into cardiac arrest, they actually

1553
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 3: call him because they actually want to know that they've

1554
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:38,600
Speaker 3: got in touch with him and that he can actually

1555
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:40,640
Speaker 3: deal with it. Right, if you've actually really got a

1556
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 3: job that you need to be contacted immediately. People will

1557
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 3: call you otherwise it's okay to wait an hour, right.

1558
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 3: And even I know there's several private schools now where

1559
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:54,840
Speaker 3: they all the teachers will now have on there. They'll

1560
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 3: have an automatic response that sets off at five o'clock

1561
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 3: at night and goes all the way through in the morning,

1562
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 3: which says, we really respect our teachers downtime, and so

1563
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 3: therefore the teacher will not respond to you until the

1564
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:06,640
Speaker 3: next morning. Right, and set up something like that, right,

1565
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 3: you get responses and saying you know, I respect my

1566
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:14,760
Speaker 3: time just like you respect your time, and give me

1567
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 3: a call if this is urgent. Otherwise I'll get to

1568
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 3: it when it's the right time for me. And that's

1569
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:22,439
Speaker 3: the way we should be living, right, because it should

1570
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 3: be that we live our lives here now, and we

1571
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 3: have these awesome devices that can save this information for us,

1572
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 3: but when we actually need it, Right, that's about using

1573
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 3: the device in a way which is actually good for

1574
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 3: us rather than good for these other kinds.

1575
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 2: I'm probably not wired right to have access to these things,

1576
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 2: because even when I was dreaming about one last night,

1577
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 2: even when I had a nock here, right.

1578
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 1: My big brother used to work for a telco and

1579
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:49,759
Speaker 1: he was the first person I met in two thousand

1580
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:53,720
Speaker 1: and two. Three. He told me he's an eternal. My

1581
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:54,919
Speaker 1: phone doesn't ring my phone.

1582
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 2: My phone hasn't made a noise for nearly twenty five years,

1583
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 2: all right, because my brother taught me how to do that.

1584
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it did vibrate.

1585
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:05,519
Speaker 2: And I remember distinctly being there in the middle of

1586
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 2: a meeting, our conversation like this, and I'd tap my

1587
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 2: jeans and I'd check it and nothing. And I noticed

1588
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 2: that was happening like twenty years ago. What's going on

1589
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:15,840
Speaker 2: in my brain? If I'm starting to like jump for

1590
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:17,640
Speaker 2: a thing, it's not there. So I swear to you

1591
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 2: I felt it.

1592
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:21,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's called fanom buzz syndrome. And it's been shown

1593
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 3: that about ninety percent of college students in the US

1594
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 3: have phantom buzz syndrome, So they get buzzes on their

1595
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:29,839
Speaker 3: legs even when it doesn't actually buzz. And that's another

1596
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 3: symptom of the addiction. Right, it's a physical addiction to

1597
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 3: the phone where you need that buzz so much that

1598
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,839
Speaker 3: you're actually having this phantom It's an illusion that's actually

1599
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 3: a carrying. And it's been shown even after five days

1600
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 3: in the they've taken college students to the desert where

1601
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,200
Speaker 3: there's no reception, and they've shown even after five days,

1602
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:50,320
Speaker 3: twenty five percent of them will still be getting buzzes

1603
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 3: on their legs because of that. I actually had a principle.

1604
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 3: I did a keynote at a principal conference, and the

1605
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 3: principle came up to me afterwards. This was in the

1606
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:00,080
Speaker 3: middle of COVID. We sort of went back for a

1607
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:01,840
Speaker 3: while and then we went and he said that he

1608
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 3: had a smart watch, and he when he took off

1609
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:05,000
Speaker 3: his smart watch to go to bed at night, he

1610
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 3: couldn't sleep because he kept getting fan and buzzes on

1611
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,599
Speaker 3: his wrists because he was getting notifications all the time

1612
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 3: and then so it actually kept him awake. But it's

1613
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:15,760
Speaker 3: a sign of a physical addiction to the phone. It

1614
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:16,920
Speaker 3: happens in so many people.

1615
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:18,720
Speaker 2: I was given an Apple Watch for a work thing

1616
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 2: I did, though, Like it was like a thousand dollars

1617
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 2: at the time, and.

1618
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:22,880
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, thank you very much. I wore

1619
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:23,679
Speaker 1: it for a day.

1620
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 3: Like I mean, the Apple watches are funny because a

1621
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 3: lot of some cardiologists are now recommending the Apple watches

1622
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 3: all because they have a thing on it. But if

1623
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 3: you actually get an Apple watch to monitor your heart

1624
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:37,000
Speaker 3: because you've got cardiosca, you're more likely to have a

1625
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 3: heart attack because of the fact that when you when

1626
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 3: your heart rate changes regularly, right, and so they're constantly

1627
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 3: getting stressed about the fact that they're outright changed, so

1628
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 3: they get more stressed, so they're more likely to actually

1629
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 3: have cardiovascular systems. Oh, if you get a step counter,

1630
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 3: you're more likely to put on weight afterwards after getting

1631
01:13:56,880 --> 01:13:59,640
Speaker 3: a step counter because the ten thousand steps. There's no

1632
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 3: search into this ten thousand steps. That was actually a

1633
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 3: group of marketing gurus over in Japan who went, how

1634
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 3: are we going to sell these We need a number,

1635
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:09,519
Speaker 3: We need a number of steps, So let's go with

1636
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:12,680
Speaker 3: ten thousand reasonable. And now everyone's gone, Ah, if I

1637
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:15,080
Speaker 3: do ten thousand steps a day, then I'm going to

1638
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 3: be healthy. And then they reward themselves for doing ten

1639
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 3: thousand steps and stop.

1640
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:22,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we all have the extra patty and pick

1641
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:23,800
Speaker 1: shake I'm today.

1642
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, so they put on.

1643
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:30,720
Speaker 2: Brains are hilarious things and making money out of them.

1644
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 2: As ethical guidelines, A lot of this is a lot

1645
01:14:35,479 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 2: more control than we think. All right, it does they are.

1646
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:42,640
Speaker 2: It's deliberately hard to turn off notifications. They couldn't make

1647
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:44,519
Speaker 2: it on the front page if they wanted. It's like

1648
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:46,679
Speaker 2: I'm subscribing from something. You've got to find a website,

1649
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:48,559
Speaker 2: find of setting things going good. They make it hard

1650
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 2: to get off these things, all right, it's deliberately that way.

1651
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:55,599
Speaker 2: But having agency around it is really important. And once

1652
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:58,280
Speaker 2: you get these things out of your life, you're going

1653
01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:00,560
Speaker 2: to experience a feeling. I know this your experienced a

1654
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 2: feeling you may not have felt for a long time.

1655
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:04,000
Speaker 2: But I'd like you to talk about why. It's a

1656
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 2: good feeling. It's a feeling of being bored.

1657
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 3: Boredom is fantastic. Boredom is an opening to being innovative

1658
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:17,879
Speaker 3: and creative. Right, if you're constantly being entertained, then you're.

1659
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:18,880
Speaker 1: Not called it stimulated.

1660
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:22,680
Speaker 3: You're being stimulated stimulated. Okay, if you're being constantly stimulated,

1661
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:26,240
Speaker 3: then you're not open to innovation creativity. You're not going

1662
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 3: to be innovative in creative right. Artists don't sit in

1663
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:34,799
Speaker 3: front of a TV or whatever while they're doing whatever

1664
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:36,800
Speaker 3: they're doing. Right, They make it quiet and they might

1665
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:39,439
Speaker 3: put on some cool jazz or something and then they

1666
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 3: get and so we need to We need to stop

1667
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 3: so that we can be innovative and creative, and we

1668
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:45,920
Speaker 3: need to stop so that we can get access to

1669
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:48,519
Speaker 3: our long term memory. Because our long term memory is

1670
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 3: full of huge amount of information. It's unlimited, right, But

1671
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 3: the only way you get access to your long term

1672
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,839
Speaker 3: memory is again by stopping, is by actually being bored

1673
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:01,880
Speaker 3: and going what and remember when, oh, I remember when

1674
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 3: I was a kid. Right, we bored all the time.

1675
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 3: And some of the stuff we got up to was yeah,

1676
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:08,360
Speaker 3: all right, a bit hazy, but other stuff was amazing. Right.

1677
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:12,799
Speaker 3: We build forts, and we used to change our bikes

1678
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:15,240
Speaker 3: around and put funny handlebars on them and all these

1679
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 3: sorts of things. Or you know, we go and play

1680
01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:20,280
Speaker 3: cricket out on the street. Now, all these things.

1681
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:22,599
Speaker 2: But you know, you're not reminiscing a time when everything

1682
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:26,639
Speaker 2: was better. You're simply reminiscing a time when you were

1683
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:28,519
Speaker 2: doing what your brain was designed to do.

1684
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 1: Those things will look different now.

1685
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:31,760
Speaker 2: People might not build a fort or hot rod of

1686
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:36,839
Speaker 2: BMX bike, But your brain is designed to collaborate, hang out, innovate.

1687
01:16:37,439 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 2: That's how humans ended up being where we are. By like,

1688
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:42,360
Speaker 2: how can we make What can we do here? You know,

1689
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 2: we like dopamine and to get it, we do new things.

1690
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 2: And doing new things means well, how can we create

1691
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:50,800
Speaker 2: these two ideas? And that's where creativity, innovation comes from.

1692
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:54,080
Speaker 3: Absolutely, we are searching for new things, right, We're constantly

1693
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:56,680
Speaker 3: searching through dopamine because it doesn't make it out happy once.

1694
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 3: It's to search for more stuff that's going to make us.

1695
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:02,320
Speaker 3: And that's where and there's some cool stuff, right. I

1696
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 3: look the Lego store. I shouldn't use commercial stuff, but

1697
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:07,400
Speaker 3: the Lego store in the city, right, we've got the

1698
01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 3: largest Lego store I think in Australia.

1699
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 2: I think they used a lot of vertical square meat

1700
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:13,080
Speaker 2: of volume on that because it's not.

1701
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:14,720
Speaker 1: Really that massive. It's very high.

1702
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:15,320
Speaker 3: It's very high.

1703
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:17,840
Speaker 1: Play two games of squashing it at the same time.

1704
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:20,000
Speaker 3: There's a lot of stuff in there, and it's a

1705
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:23,080
Speaker 3: pretty awesome, right. And there's some awesome Lego stuff. And

1706
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 3: there's other companies as well that do all these awesome

1707
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 3: things that you can you can buy and you can

1708
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 3: you can make and you can Yeah, those what are

1709
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:34,559
Speaker 3: they called technique technical Yeah, building things and all that.

1710
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 2: This stuff costs money, yes, and the phone stuff is free, yes,

1711
01:17:38,439 --> 01:17:42,160
Speaker 2: but what's the cost of letting your kid just sit there,

1712
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,799
Speaker 2: not developing their creativity, not developing the socialization, not developing

1713
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 2: their ability and smile or recognize friendship or danger. You know,

1714
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:53,799
Speaker 2: you'd pay anything to have your kid have those skills.

1715
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:56,360
Speaker 2: So that's where the cost is.

1716
01:17:57,120 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and even just buy clay right right by clay

1717
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:02,720
Speaker 3: and let them actually just play the clay and make

1718
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 3: a mess outside, you know, buy by chalks. We live

1719
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:08,920
Speaker 3: in a little cul de sac and there's lots of

1720
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 3: younger kids around and we always have chalks, you know,

1721
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:14,080
Speaker 3: for them to ride on the on the concrete all

1722
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:16,360
Speaker 3: the time. And the kids, my kids are older now,

1723
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 3: but the little kids will come and grab the chalk

1724
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:18,880
Speaker 3: and do that.

1725
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 1: Just leave it out there.

1726
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:22,679
Speaker 3: Yeah and so, yeah and so. And my older kids,

1727
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:25,880
Speaker 3: especially my daughter sixteen, if she's not doing it, she'll

1728
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 3: go out and play with these younger kids who absolutely

1729
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 3: love her. Now we'll knock on the door.

1730
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:33,600
Speaker 2: And so as a neurosciences and what age do dickenballs like?

1731
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:39,360
Speaker 2: At what age is dickenballs? Surely at some point the

1732
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:43,240
Speaker 2: dicken balls are like, that's funny.

1733
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 3: It's and of primary school. It's a grade five grades

1734
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 3: in stage, and it's always the boys. Oh yeah, it's

1735
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:48,519
Speaker 3: a boy.

1736
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was always because I'm not circumcised. I was like,

1737
01:18:51,479 --> 01:18:53,920
Speaker 2: but my dick doesn't look like that. Everyone's wrying Jeff

1738
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:54,599
Speaker 2: Bezos rocket.

1739
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:58,759
Speaker 3: We're actually down the road from us. There's a Santa

1740
01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:02,200
Speaker 3: on a sleigh during Christmas and it used to flash

1741
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:04,800
Speaker 3: up and his hand would go oh no, yeah, and

1742
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:07,280
Speaker 3: it so look like I didn't I didn't do it.

1743
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:09,320
Speaker 3: But my son were walking past and he's going, God,

1744
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,040
Speaker 3: that looks like a dick, don't the dad, And I

1745
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:12,600
Speaker 3: was like, oh my god. And you can't not see it.

1746
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:14,680
Speaker 3: Once he says it, yeah, once he says it. It's

1747
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:16,599
Speaker 3: just like you know what. Then about a week later,

1748
01:19:16,680 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 3: they stopped turning it on, and I think someone's turned

1749
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:21,759
Speaker 3: around him and said, I think you we should stop.

1750
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:23,840
Speaker 2: But you know what they're doing. They're using their creativity

1751
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:25,840
Speaker 2: and they were using their ideation. Because they weren't looking

1752
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:28,640
Speaker 2: down on their on their phone, I could talk to

1753
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:30,559
Speaker 2: I mean, I like any parent, you know, I'm concerned

1754
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:34,519
Speaker 2: about my kids, but also concerned about myself, you know.

1755
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:36,559
Speaker 2: To sum up our conversation and you're write in the

1756
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 2: book Life is meant to be lived. So when people

1757
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 2: are trying to approach this with their kids, and yes,

1758
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:44,160
Speaker 2: it's a granular process, and you offer you great advice today,

1759
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:44,479
Speaker 2: but it's.

1760
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:45,360
Speaker 1: Just heaps in the book.

1761
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:47,680
Speaker 2: When you mean, when you say life is meant to

1762
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 2: be lived? What what kind of things.

1763
01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:51,320
Speaker 1: Do you talk about? What can people do from here

1764
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:53,519
Speaker 1: to start to move towards that.

1765
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, let's get dark for a while there went

1766
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:00,519
Speaker 3: when I was studying, I actually volunteered at an end

1767
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 3: of life hospice where people would go in the last

1768
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:06,680
Speaker 3: two weeks of death right and so. And it was

1769
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:09,799
Speaker 3: an incredible experience to meet these people during that period

1770
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:11,880
Speaker 3: of time and meet loved ones that they were with.

1771
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:15,559
Speaker 3: And I never met anybody in that situation who said

1772
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:19,080
Speaker 3: I haven't seen enough cat videos, I haven't spent enough

1773
01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:21,920
Speaker 3: time on Instagram, or I haven't spent enough time on devices.

1774
01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:25,080
Speaker 3: It was always I didn't spend enough time with my daughter,

1775
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 3: I didn't spend enough time with my kids, I didn't

1776
01:20:27,280 --> 01:20:31,080
Speaker 3: spend enough time with my grandkids. I worked too much.

1777
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 3: It's never about I needed another MG or I needed

1778
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:38,960
Speaker 3: another mesdis. It's never about I didn't go on enough

1779
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:42,360
Speaker 3: big fancy holidays to Europe. It's always about I didn't

1780
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:46,320
Speaker 3: spend enough time with my family and we've only got

1781
01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:48,760
Speaker 3: a certain amount of time on this planet.

1782
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:49,479
Speaker 1: Four thousand weeks.

1783
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:51,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it. What are you going to do with them?

1784
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:54,760
Speaker 3: And the most important thing for us as humans to

1785
01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:58,120
Speaker 3: do is to spend time with people we love and everybody.

1786
01:20:58,439 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 3: And you get more reward at helping someone else than

1787
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:04,679
Speaker 3: you do when someone helps you, right, So we all

1788
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:07,679
Speaker 3: need to be just helping other people, reaching out to people.

1789
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:09,920
Speaker 3: People love it when you reach out to them. Just

1790
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:11,200
Speaker 3: give them a call and say how you want to

1791
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 3: catch up for a coffee. I work at home a

1792
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 3: lot these days when I'm not traveling, and I always

1793
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 3: organize during the day to meet up with someone. If

1794
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 3: I'm not doing something like this where I'm meeting someone new,

1795
01:21:22,120 --> 01:21:24,600
Speaker 3: I'll organize for someone else to catch up at the

1796
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:27,120
Speaker 3: beach or catch up at a cafe or whatever, so

1797
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:29,960
Speaker 3: that I spend time with people and constantly spend time

1798
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 3: with people because it is so important for us, and

1799
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 3: we're doing less and less of that at the moment,

1800
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 3: and we need to do more and more of that

1801
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:36,880
Speaker 3: because that's what makes us human.

1802
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:39,880
Speaker 1: I was taught as much as you can try to

1803
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 1: never eat lunch alone.

1804
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:44,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, beautiful, but do as much as you can to

1805
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:46,960
Speaker 2: never eat lunch alone. And I thought it was really

1806
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 2: a really good one if you can work that in

1807
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 2: because it was by a business guy who was talking

1808
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:54,080
Speaker 2: about how to manufacture serendipity. But it's also offers a

1809
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:58,679
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of help. It's it's a brave

1810
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:01,640
Speaker 2: world that we're ford their sales, you know what, I

1811
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:03,439
Speaker 2: will actually go to the full Huxley. It's a brave

1812
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,600
Speaker 2: new world that we are, you know, pushing into. And

1813
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:08,920
Speaker 2: if you want to hear about the background of an

1814
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:12,360
Speaker 2: entire conversation, read that book because it pretty much spells

1815
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:14,519
Speaker 2: out exactly what we've got nearly a hundred years ago.

1816
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:17,599
Speaker 2: Nothing that so does the machine stops Ian Foster, which

1817
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:21,599
Speaker 2: is also exactly people could see it. They could see

1818
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:23,679
Speaker 2: it coming, and they write exactly what's going to happen

1819
01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:26,800
Speaker 2: to people when it does, which is great because it

1820
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:29,679
Speaker 2: means that, oh great, this isn't something new. There's probably

1821
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:32,360
Speaker 2: solutions that we've already got, which you've mentioned a bunch

1822
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:36,320
Speaker 2: of today. Yes, it's hard, but you know, as you

1823
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:39,200
Speaker 2: mentioned before, look at your screen time. How much money

1824
01:22:39,240 --> 01:22:40,880
Speaker 2: do you get paid in hour at work? Would you

1825
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:44,240
Speaker 2: do that money? Would you do that for free? They

1826
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:47,679
Speaker 2: probably wouldn't. And look at like, look at your screen time.

1827
01:22:48,439 --> 01:22:50,400
Speaker 2: If you're watching a video of someone else's kid, figure

1828
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:51,800
Speaker 2: out how to use the swing for the first time.

1829
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 1: But you missed yours probably timed.

1830
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:56,000
Speaker 3: You've got a problem.

1831
01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:58,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, get it, dumb, get it, just just get it.

1832
01:22:58,680 --> 01:23:01,360
Speaker 2: Just a dumb digital camera, use that. Yes, you'd like

1833
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:02,639
Speaker 2: to have a camera. I love to have a camera.

1834
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:05,680
Speaker 2: Get a dumb digital camera, get a dumb phone. Just

1835
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:09,840
Speaker 2: there's ways we can get around it. But until I mean,

1836
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:12,639
Speaker 2: the government ban, as you said, didn't go far enough.

1837
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:17,080
Speaker 2: It's great, didn't go far enough. We need to We

1838
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:19,639
Speaker 2: need to show the market has to push bottom upward.

1839
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:22,120
Speaker 2: Market pressure can do a lot, can do a lot,

1840
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 2: and we need to as a community go no, no more.

1841
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:27,240
Speaker 1: This is more than enough.

1842
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:29,880
Speaker 2: And you insidious bastards know it's bad for us, and

1843
01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:33,960
Speaker 2: yet you keep giving it, you keep manufacturing it and

1844
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:36,519
Speaker 2: making it our fault. But we're addicted to it and

1845
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:38,960
Speaker 2: we can't put it down because you've made it that way.

1846
01:23:39,240 --> 01:23:41,560
Speaker 1: So mate, I'm glad you're in the world. Thanks for

1847
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:42,120
Speaker 1: coming around man.

1848
01:23:42,200 --> 01:23:43,720
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, I appreciate it.

1849
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:44,479
Speaker 1: Thanks for writing the book.

1850
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:47,320
Speaker 3: No problem at all. Enough's enough, right, We're going to

1851
01:23:47,320 --> 01:23:47,600
Speaker 3: move on.

1852
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:50,880
Speaker 1: Enough is enough? Yeah enough.

1853
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:52,240
Speaker 3: I think that's where we've got and I think a

1854
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:54,160
Speaker 3: lot of people are thinking that now, which is great.

1855
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:58,240
Speaker 2: That is doctor Mark Williams. His new book is called

1856
01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:02,240
Speaker 2: Screen Smart Children. He wrote it with and educated Gavin McCormack.

1857
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:04,639
Speaker 2: I'll put the links in the show notes there. You'll

1858
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:07,920
Speaker 2: also find a link to the live storytelling show I

1859
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:11,600
Speaker 2: do every month or so. It's called story Club. Or

1860
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 2: put the YouTube channel in there. Jump on there. There's

1861
01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:16,519
Speaker 2: a tickets available to the next show, which is in April.

1862
01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:18,880
Speaker 2: I'd love to see you there. What did you think

1863
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:21,120
Speaker 2: of the show? I'd love to know your thoughts. Just

1864
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:23,599
Speaker 2: leave a comment in the review section wherever you saw

1865
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:26,519
Speaker 2: this or heard this, rate it, like it, comment it,

1866
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:29,320
Speaker 2: subscribe it. Tell a friend please, that's the best thing

1867
01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:30,920
Speaker 2: you can do for us. Yes, i'd say buy the

1868
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:33,040
Speaker 2: stuff and the ads, but the best thing you can

1869
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:34,840
Speaker 2: do for us really really helps us.

1870
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:38,280
Speaker 1: Tell a friend, texts to a friend, and that's the best.

1871
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:40,559
Speaker 1: There's a newsletter link in the show notes as well,

1872
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:44,400
Speaker 1: where I can keep you closely updated with all things

1873
01:24:45,160 --> 01:24:48,120
Speaker 1: related to me and Nah. Just get on the newsletter.

1874
01:24:48,120 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 3: It's good.

1875
01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 1: I won't spam you.

1876
01:24:49,479 --> 01:24:52,320
Speaker 2: Thanks to Damien Hafing them for producing this show, Cassidy

1877
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:54,320
Speaker 2: Creevy for helping me b where I said I would be,

1878
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 2: and you for listening.

1879
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:56,280
Speaker 1: I'll see you Monday.