1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Apoche production. 2 00:00:10,241 --> 00:00:14,681 Speaker 2: This episode contains discussion of murder, the disposal of human remains, 3 00:00:14,721 --> 00:00:19,441 Speaker 2: and speculation about further offenses against women. Listener discretion is 4 00:00:19,561 --> 00:00:28,641 Speaker 2: highly advised. Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm 5 00:00:28,681 --> 00:00:32,801 Speaker 2: your host Adam Shand. In two thousand and eight, Melbourne 6 00:00:32,841 --> 00:00:36,361 Speaker 2: man Fred Boyle was convicted of murdering his wife Edwina. 7 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,001 Speaker 2: In October nineteen eighty three. 8 00:00:39,441 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 3: Melbourne man Fred Boyle has been found guilty of murdering 9 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,121 Speaker 3: his wife Edwina more than two decades after her disappearance. 10 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,881 Speaker 2: What made the crime so horrific was his decision to 11 00:00:52,001 --> 00:00:54,801 Speaker 2: keep her body in a forty four gallon drum for 12 00:00:54,881 --> 00:00:56,041 Speaker 2: twenty three years. 13 00:00:56,441 --> 00:00:59,641 Speaker 3: The victim's remains were found sealed inside of forty four 14 00:00:59,721 --> 00:01:03,641 Speaker 3: gallon drum for more than two decades as Boyle moved 15 00:01:03,681 --> 00:01:06,521 Speaker 3: between holmes with the cup two daughters. 16 00:01:07,361 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 2: The story of how he almost got away with this 17 00:01:09,521 --> 00:01:13,441 Speaker 2: heenous crime speaks to a police in action and mistakes, 18 00:01:13,761 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: and the determination of Duena's family and friends to seek 19 00:01:18,041 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 2: justice on her behalf. 20 00:01:19,761 --> 00:01:21,881 Speaker 3: A tip off from a family member has led to 21 00:01:21,961 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 3: the arrest of a Melbourne man over the suspected murder 22 00:01:24,961 --> 00:01:29,401 Speaker 3: of his wife, who vanished without trace in nineteen eighty three. 23 00:01:30,081 --> 00:01:33,321 Speaker 2: Those close to Edwena suspected that Fred had killed his 24 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,801 Speaker 2: wife to cover up an affair he was having at 25 00:01:35,801 --> 00:01:39,801 Speaker 2: the time. It was only when his daughter's partner discovered 26 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:45,241 Speaker 2: Fred's grizzly trophy that the killer was finally arrested. Tracy 27 00:01:45,321 --> 00:01:49,081 Speaker 2: Frenzy tried for years to persuade police that her friend 28 00:01:49,121 --> 00:01:51,561 Speaker 2: had not run away to start a new life with 29 00:01:51,601 --> 00:01:52,201 Speaker 2: another man. 30 00:01:52,721 --> 00:01:55,921 Speaker 3: Questions are now being raised about whether convicted killer Fred 31 00:01:55,921 --> 00:01:59,681 Speaker 3: Boyle may be linked to other unsolved murders in Victoria. 32 00:02:00,201 --> 00:02:02,801 Speaker 3: A woman who knew his wife says she has never 33 00:02:02,841 --> 00:02:04,361 Speaker 3: stopped looking for answers. 34 00:02:06,001 --> 00:02:09,321 Speaker 2: Now she believes Fred Boyle may have killed other women, 35 00:02:09,681 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 2: and I caught up with Tracy to discuss this recently. 36 00:02:15,841 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 2: Tracy Frenzy, Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shanned. 37 00:02:19,161 --> 00:02:19,761 Speaker 1: Thank you. 38 00:02:19,761 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 2: You had a brush with a very evil character in 39 00:02:23,601 --> 00:02:25,761 Speaker 2: Fred Boyle, who murdered his wife a duena. 40 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,921 Speaker 4: Tell me how this all began for you. 41 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 5: Well, Adam, it started for me back in Harkaway in 42 00:02:33,481 --> 00:02:38,041 Speaker 5: nineteen seventy nine, where I'd purchased a horse and I 43 00:02:38,081 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 5: was keeping it at a property there and the proprietor 44 00:02:41,721 --> 00:02:45,801 Speaker 5: Ian had invited Fred and his wife ad Wena and 45 00:02:45,921 --> 00:02:50,081 Speaker 5: two daughters to live in a caravan on their property 46 00:02:50,161 --> 00:02:55,201 Speaker 5: because they had hit hard times financially. So Fred and 47 00:02:55,201 --> 00:02:58,081 Speaker 5: and Weena were there with their two young daughters at 48 00:02:58,081 --> 00:03:00,561 Speaker 5: the time. They would have probably been about four and 49 00:03:00,921 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 5: seven when I first met them. Edwina had a horse 50 00:03:05,161 --> 00:03:10,401 Speaker 5: at the time she was actually riding regularly, and Fred 51 00:03:10,481 --> 00:03:13,681 Speaker 5: was doing a bit of carpentry and maintenance around the 52 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,641 Speaker 5: property apart from his full time job as a carpet layer. 53 00:03:18,161 --> 00:03:22,161 Speaker 2: They were a Welsh extraction that come from Cardiff in 54 00:03:22,201 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 2: the sixties. 55 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,721 Speaker 4: I believe what sort of bloke was he? I mean, 56 00:03:25,881 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 4: a big, powerful guy. What do you remember of him? 57 00:03:29,041 --> 00:03:32,641 Speaker 5: He was short and stocky, and I think he had 58 00:03:32,921 --> 00:03:36,521 Speaker 5: two sides to him, and maybe everyone has two sides, 59 00:03:36,561 --> 00:03:40,521 Speaker 5: but not a second side like he, not his, no, exactly, Adam. 60 00:03:41,121 --> 00:03:45,201 Speaker 5: So his second side was that he could be quite 61 00:03:45,361 --> 00:03:48,601 Speaker 5: cruel to animals. That was one of the things that 62 00:03:48,641 --> 00:03:52,161 Speaker 5: stood out to me. He was a very possessive man, 63 00:03:52,361 --> 00:03:57,921 Speaker 5: possessive of his family, his pets and any possessions. 64 00:03:57,321 --> 00:03:58,921 Speaker 1: That he had, tools, et cetera. 65 00:03:59,321 --> 00:04:06,961 Speaker 5: Everything was his and with his possessiveness. If anything threatened 66 00:04:07,401 --> 00:04:10,521 Speaker 5: what he owned, he would get angry about it. 67 00:04:10,921 --> 00:04:14,521 Speaker 2: And you mentioned this cruelty to animals aspect, and often 68 00:04:14,561 --> 00:04:19,641 Speaker 2: that's the kind of gateway behavior towards cruelty towards humans. 69 00:04:19,921 --> 00:04:21,281 Speaker 1: Yes, that's what I think. 70 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,841 Speaker 2: There was one specific instance which came home to you 71 00:04:23,921 --> 00:04:26,801 Speaker 2: which showed this guy's cruelty. Hmm, what was that. 72 00:04:27,521 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 5: There were a few instances, but the one that stood 73 00:04:30,361 --> 00:04:36,601 Speaker 5: out the most was that he Ian and another horse guy, Vince, 74 00:04:37,001 --> 00:04:39,641 Speaker 5: were down rabbiting at the bottom of the property and 75 00:04:39,721 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 5: there was a dam down there. It was just beautiful 76 00:04:42,841 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 5: and they found a horse stuck in the dam. So 77 00:04:46,601 --> 00:04:48,681 Speaker 5: they worked out that they couldn't get it out. It 78 00:04:48,721 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 5: was totally stuck with its legs in marred deep. So 79 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,001 Speaker 5: whilst Ian and Vince went to the top of the 80 00:04:56,081 --> 00:04:58,441 Speaker 5: hill where the house was, it was quite a high 81 00:04:58,521 --> 00:05:01,881 Speaker 5: cup of Steve hill to get help or to get 82 00:05:01,921 --> 00:05:05,801 Speaker 5: a tractor or some sort of assistance, they went back 83 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 5: down the hill to the dam and they found Fred 84 00:05:09,241 --> 00:05:12,241 Speaker 5: had strangled the horse with a piece of fencing wire. 85 00:05:13,681 --> 00:05:16,681 Speaker 2: The piece of fencing wire, Yes, and pulling a horse 86 00:05:16,721 --> 00:05:20,361 Speaker 2: out of a dam is a pretty straightforward process. With 87 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: the right implements. So he didn't wait for Vincentine to 88 00:05:23,641 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 2: come back with the tractor. He just dispatched the horse 89 00:05:26,281 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 2: like that, in a very cruel manner. 90 00:05:28,081 --> 00:05:31,601 Speaker 5: Yes, and I think he liked to see things suffering. 91 00:05:32,641 --> 00:05:36,041 Speaker 5: Another instance was he had some bantam chickens when he 92 00:05:36,121 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 5: moved to another property at Officer and a dog came 93 00:05:39,361 --> 00:05:42,281 Speaker 5: in the night and killed some of the chickens. So 94 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,681 Speaker 5: he told me, right, I'm going to sit up wait 95 00:05:45,721 --> 00:05:48,761 Speaker 5: for that dog all night, and I'm going to have 96 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,721 Speaker 5: my gun and I'm going to injure it to give 97 00:05:51,761 --> 00:05:56,681 Speaker 5: it a lesson. So wasn't like to kill it. It 98 00:05:56,801 --> 00:06:01,081 Speaker 5: was to injure. So I think he took the light 99 00:06:01,481 --> 00:06:04,641 Speaker 5: in injuring or worrying. 100 00:06:05,121 --> 00:06:07,121 Speaker 2: I'm just going to say taking pleasure and that sort 101 00:06:07,121 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 2: of a situation is a psychopathic trait. 102 00:06:10,401 --> 00:06:12,961 Speaker 4: And I've seen this in a number of murders over 103 00:06:12,961 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 4: the years. 104 00:06:13,961 --> 00:06:17,521 Speaker 2: And there he is with Edwina. Their love affair had 105 00:06:17,521 --> 00:06:20,281 Speaker 2: began when he was a bus driver in Wales. She 106 00:06:20,401 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: was the conductor. Sounds like a love story on the buses. Yes, 107 00:06:23,521 --> 00:06:25,241 Speaker 2: it didn't have a very pleasant end. What sort of 108 00:06:25,961 --> 00:06:27,921 Speaker 2: person was Adwena? 109 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,081 Speaker 1: Edwen was a very devoted mother. 110 00:06:31,641 --> 00:06:36,241 Speaker 5: She was kind, she liked her animals, and what I 111 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:40,281 Speaker 5: saw of Edwena was she was hard working. So when 112 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,121 Speaker 5: the girls were at school in the later time I 113 00:06:43,201 --> 00:06:45,721 Speaker 5: knew her, which was over a period of about four years, 114 00:06:46,361 --> 00:06:50,241 Speaker 5: she went and worked at the local chicken processing farm 115 00:06:50,561 --> 00:06:53,961 Speaker 5: with collecting eggs and grating eggs and things like that. 116 00:06:54,601 --> 00:06:58,201 Speaker 5: According to the people at the chicken farm, during her lunchtime, 117 00:06:58,361 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 5: she would be sewing literally hundreds of sequins on the 118 00:07:03,681 --> 00:07:09,241 Speaker 5: girl's ice skating costumes because her daughters were heavily into skating, 119 00:07:09,281 --> 00:07:13,641 Speaker 5: and the eldest one being extremely competent and did end 120 00:07:13,761 --> 00:07:19,121 Speaker 5: up becoming victorian junior champions. So she would be devoted 121 00:07:19,281 --> 00:07:22,481 Speaker 5: with hours and hours. She was a seamstress. She made 122 00:07:22,481 --> 00:07:26,881 Speaker 5: costumes for them. They were beautiful costumes. And then of 123 00:07:26,961 --> 00:07:29,681 Speaker 5: an evening they would all be at the skating rink. 124 00:07:30,001 --> 00:07:33,281 Speaker 5: The girls would be practicing and they would Fred ended 125 00:07:33,361 --> 00:07:36,241 Speaker 5: up becoming the president and Adwena was helping I think, 126 00:07:36,361 --> 00:07:41,001 Speaker 5: on the committee as well. And so their whole lives 127 00:07:41,121 --> 00:07:44,681 Speaker 5: turned around from being a harsy kind of family to 128 00:07:44,761 --> 00:07:48,721 Speaker 5: then going to more of a skating family. And so 129 00:07:48,841 --> 00:07:52,201 Speaker 5: then they moved to dandinong to be very close to 130 00:07:52,281 --> 00:07:55,161 Speaker 5: the skating rink because in officer it was just too 131 00:07:55,241 --> 00:07:58,521 Speaker 5: much traveling every night going to the rink and then 132 00:07:58,641 --> 00:08:01,961 Speaker 5: back to officers. You know, probably quite a few kilometers 133 00:08:02,001 --> 00:08:02,721 Speaker 5: are racking up. 134 00:08:03,481 --> 00:08:05,281 Speaker 2: And I think you also noticed that they did have 135 00:08:05,321 --> 00:08:07,401 Speaker 2: a lot of friends though, but socially isolated. 136 00:08:07,921 --> 00:08:08,801 Speaker 1: That's right, Adam. 137 00:08:08,921 --> 00:08:12,201 Speaker 5: So what I didn't realize, and I wish I did 138 00:08:12,241 --> 00:08:16,041 Speaker 5: in hindsight, because I could perhaps do something about that. 139 00:08:16,201 --> 00:08:20,241 Speaker 5: But Edwena looked after people's horses who are living in 140 00:08:20,241 --> 00:08:24,001 Speaker 5: Melbourne and she was on the farm, and I didn't 141 00:08:24,041 --> 00:08:27,881 Speaker 5: realize she had her horsey friends, the group that we 142 00:08:27,881 --> 00:08:32,561 Speaker 5: were in, her skating friends, and her probably her school. 143 00:08:32,281 --> 00:08:35,441 Speaker 1: Mums that she mixed with, but she. 144 00:08:35,441 --> 00:08:40,121 Speaker 5: Wasn't really close and couldn't share her personal life with 145 00:08:40,241 --> 00:08:43,681 Speaker 5: those people, including myself. And I wish now that I 146 00:08:43,761 --> 00:08:47,881 Speaker 5: had reached out to her, because I did suspect Fred 147 00:08:48,001 --> 00:08:51,881 Speaker 5: was having an affair. But she was quite private too, 148 00:08:52,121 --> 00:08:56,121 Speaker 5: so you wouldn't want to overstep the mark by But 149 00:08:56,361 --> 00:08:59,881 Speaker 5: even in those days, there wasn't like a UOK day, 150 00:09:00,281 --> 00:09:03,241 Speaker 5: so we didn't really ask people are uoka. 151 00:09:03,361 --> 00:09:06,601 Speaker 1: And it's a real shame that I should, but she 152 00:09:06,681 --> 00:09:07,361 Speaker 1: seemed happy. 153 00:09:07,921 --> 00:09:11,121 Speaker 4: Did she ever express any concerns or I. 154 00:09:11,041 --> 00:09:14,721 Speaker 5: Think she was happy as a family unit, because I 155 00:09:14,721 --> 00:09:18,321 Speaker 5: think that's what she lived for, was her family. I 156 00:09:18,361 --> 00:09:21,921 Speaker 5: think there were money concerns, and she was quite good 157 00:09:22,001 --> 00:09:25,801 Speaker 5: on the purse strings and being thrifty in making clothes 158 00:09:25,881 --> 00:09:29,361 Speaker 5: for the children and caring for them, baking and things 159 00:09:29,401 --> 00:09:34,281 Speaker 5: like that. So I think if it wasn't for her, maybe. 160 00:09:33,921 --> 00:09:35,881 Speaker 1: Things would have been worse financially. 161 00:09:36,641 --> 00:09:36,921 Speaker 2: Yeah. 162 00:09:36,961 --> 00:09:41,001 Speaker 5: And then Fred, Lee, my best friend, and I decided 163 00:09:41,401 --> 00:09:43,921 Speaker 5: that we thought Fred was having an affair with one 164 00:09:43,961 --> 00:09:45,041 Speaker 5: of the skating mums. 165 00:09:45,401 --> 00:09:46,361 Speaker 4: How did that come about? 166 00:09:47,441 --> 00:09:51,121 Speaker 5: So prior to the moving from Officer, they had a 167 00:09:51,161 --> 00:09:54,361 Speaker 5: party on a Sunday afternoon with all the ice skating 168 00:09:54,441 --> 00:09:57,921 Speaker 5: kids and their parents, and they said to Lee and 169 00:09:57,961 --> 00:10:00,841 Speaker 5: I we weren't really in that group and we were 170 00:10:01,121 --> 00:10:03,601 Speaker 5: happy just doing our horsey thing, but they said, oh, 171 00:10:03,641 --> 00:10:05,961 Speaker 5: come and have a drink with us, girl. So we did, 172 00:10:06,761 --> 00:10:10,001 Speaker 5: and as we walked through the house, we walked into 173 00:10:10,041 --> 00:10:12,561 Speaker 5: the lounge room, which was empty, and we thought we 174 00:10:12,561 --> 00:10:15,801 Speaker 5: were just cutting through, and all of a sudden we 175 00:10:15,841 --> 00:10:19,921 Speaker 5: realized that Fred was there with Virginia, and it all 176 00:10:20,001 --> 00:10:24,921 Speaker 5: felt very awkward. And uncomfortable, and just the way it was, 177 00:10:24,921 --> 00:10:28,161 Speaker 5: that the way they looked at each other, like they 178 00:10:28,161 --> 00:10:32,801 Speaker 5: were obviously having some romantic tete tete themselves, and I 179 00:10:32,801 --> 00:10:35,641 Speaker 5: would say, we walked in the middle of it, and 180 00:10:35,721 --> 00:10:39,641 Speaker 5: they weren't expecting that, and they kind of jumped back 181 00:10:39,681 --> 00:10:44,801 Speaker 5: a bit, and it just felt very uncomfortable. And when 182 00:10:44,961 --> 00:10:47,201 Speaker 5: Lee and I were driving back to Corfield that night, 183 00:10:47,281 --> 00:10:50,761 Speaker 5: we said, oh, did you notice them looking at each 184 00:10:50,761 --> 00:10:53,361 Speaker 5: other like that? And is something going on there? And 185 00:10:53,401 --> 00:10:56,801 Speaker 5: we decided yes, we thought something was going on there 186 00:10:56,841 --> 00:10:59,841 Speaker 5: for sure, but you know, we didn't really know what 187 00:10:59,921 --> 00:11:03,041 Speaker 5: to do about that. And soon after Edwena and Fred 188 00:11:03,201 --> 00:11:06,081 Speaker 5: moved and I think I only ever saw them once 189 00:11:06,241 --> 00:11:08,521 Speaker 5: more when they lived at Danino. 190 00:11:08,841 --> 00:11:13,761 Speaker 2: Right, And in October nineteen eighty three, Edwina suddenly disappears. Yes, 191 00:11:13,921 --> 00:11:16,241 Speaker 2: and the cover story Fred gibs to people is that 192 00:11:16,281 --> 00:11:18,721 Speaker 2: she's having an affair with a truck driver called Ray. 193 00:11:19,481 --> 00:11:22,641 Speaker 1: Yes, she just takes off, Yes, she just takes off. 194 00:11:23,361 --> 00:11:26,841 Speaker 2: When you heard this, did you think back to that 195 00:11:26,961 --> 00:11:31,161 Speaker 2: moment at the party when you saw him talking to Virginia. Yes, 196 00:11:31,361 --> 00:11:34,041 Speaker 2: he would be eventually the woman that he would kill 197 00:11:34,081 --> 00:11:34,841 Speaker 2: his wife for. 198 00:11:35,161 --> 00:11:39,761 Speaker 5: Yes, yes, so I did immediately think back and thought, 199 00:11:40,121 --> 00:11:43,921 Speaker 5: you know, maybe Edwina had found out about it, and 200 00:11:44,401 --> 00:11:45,801 Speaker 5: maybe the marriage broke her. 201 00:11:46,121 --> 00:11:48,881 Speaker 1: But there's no way she would leave those children. 202 00:11:49,801 --> 00:11:52,881 Speaker 2: Well, you were saying before she didn't take her car. No, 203 00:11:53,561 --> 00:11:56,201 Speaker 2: you wouldn't take your car. I guess Ray's got a truck, 204 00:11:56,241 --> 00:11:57,441 Speaker 2: but you still need your own car. 205 00:11:57,721 --> 00:11:58,001 Speaker 1: Yes. 206 00:11:58,521 --> 00:12:02,281 Speaker 2: And the oldest daughter, Carriza, she had a really important 207 00:12:02,321 --> 00:12:04,121 Speaker 2: skating competition. 208 00:12:03,681 --> 00:12:04,441 Speaker 4: The following day. 209 00:12:04,601 --> 00:12:08,321 Speaker 5: Yes, So this was the Thursday night that Edwena went missing, 210 00:12:08,361 --> 00:12:11,281 Speaker 5: and on the Saturday night was the big competition that 211 00:12:12,361 --> 00:12:17,041 Speaker 5: Edwena would have been so excited about because Careesa was 212 00:12:17,161 --> 00:12:21,441 Speaker 5: just blitzing it in the skating world. So there's no 213 00:12:21,601 --> 00:12:24,001 Speaker 5: way that she would have left. Then the timing was 214 00:12:24,041 --> 00:12:24,801 Speaker 5: all wrong. 215 00:12:25,041 --> 00:12:25,721 Speaker 4: And this is normal. 216 00:12:25,761 --> 00:12:28,961 Speaker 2: It's painstakingly sied on the sequence for this child's Yes, 217 00:12:29,121 --> 00:12:33,121 Speaker 2: skating outfit. Yes, And she's willing her child to be successful. 218 00:12:33,121 --> 00:12:34,921 Speaker 2: And one of these big competitions comes up. She runs 219 00:12:34,921 --> 00:12:36,841 Speaker 2: off with Ray and says, I don't care about. 220 00:12:36,681 --> 00:12:39,561 Speaker 5: That all of a sudden, Yes, Yes, it was beyond 221 00:12:40,081 --> 00:12:43,801 Speaker 5: our comprehension that she would do that. So Lee and 222 00:12:43,801 --> 00:12:47,441 Speaker 5: I went to the Dan Nong police station. When we 223 00:12:47,441 --> 00:12:49,761 Speaker 5: were up that way and we called in there and 224 00:12:50,681 --> 00:12:53,041 Speaker 5: we weren't taken very seriously at all. 225 00:12:53,441 --> 00:12:54,161 Speaker 4: What did you tell them? 226 00:12:54,441 --> 00:12:55,921 Speaker 1: Well, we walked. 227 00:12:55,681 --> 00:12:59,241 Speaker 5: In and you think about maybe like two blonds walk 228 00:12:59,321 --> 00:13:02,001 Speaker 5: into a bar, well, two blonds walk into a very 229 00:13:02,161 --> 00:13:09,001 Speaker 5: blokey police station and they're like, oh hello, and you 230 00:13:09,041 --> 00:13:11,601 Speaker 5: could hear sort of a bit of banter in the background, 231 00:13:11,681 --> 00:13:14,761 Speaker 5: the fact that we'd come to the counter, which was 232 00:13:14,921 --> 00:13:16,001 Speaker 5: odd and wouldn't happen. 233 00:13:16,041 --> 00:13:16,721 Speaker 1: Then that make you. 234 00:13:16,721 --> 00:13:19,321 Speaker 4: Feel when you're coming in there with a grave concern. 235 00:13:19,161 --> 00:13:20,761 Speaker 1: Could very awkward. 236 00:13:21,001 --> 00:13:23,441 Speaker 5: I felt like I was walking into a main bar 237 00:13:23,601 --> 00:13:26,121 Speaker 5: of a hotel, and in those days women didn't really 238 00:13:26,161 --> 00:13:29,481 Speaker 5: go into bars, so it felt uncomfortable with. 239 00:13:29,401 --> 00:13:31,001 Speaker 2: Some of the coppies in those days had come to 240 00:13:31,001 --> 00:13:31,641 Speaker 2: the station. 241 00:13:31,481 --> 00:13:32,601 Speaker 4: Straight from the bar. 242 00:13:32,721 --> 00:13:36,121 Speaker 5: The probably had yes, So we said that we had 243 00:13:36,121 --> 00:13:40,641 Speaker 5: these grave concerns, and gentlemen at the desk just like 244 00:13:40,681 --> 00:13:43,601 Speaker 5: probably just got a note and just wrote a couple 245 00:13:43,641 --> 00:13:46,921 Speaker 5: of things on it. And we said, you know, there's 246 00:13:46,961 --> 00:13:48,921 Speaker 5: no way she would have done that. It needs to 247 00:13:48,921 --> 00:13:52,761 Speaker 5: be followed up. And they said, oh, yes, yes, yes, 248 00:13:52,801 --> 00:13:53,521 Speaker 5: we'll look into it. 249 00:13:53,561 --> 00:13:59,641 Speaker 1: Thank you girls, goodbye, and nothing happened. And then Ian 250 00:13:59,961 --> 00:14:01,281 Speaker 1: and his wife, Carol. 251 00:14:01,681 --> 00:14:05,521 Speaker 5: Carol's dad knew someone at the dane On Police, so 252 00:14:06,081 --> 00:14:08,761 Speaker 5: they managed to convince them to go and at least 253 00:14:08,761 --> 00:14:13,601 Speaker 5: talk to Fred, which the police did, and Fred just said, oh, no, 254 00:14:13,681 --> 00:14:17,121 Speaker 5: she's run off and I don't know why she'd leave 255 00:14:17,161 --> 00:14:18,201 Speaker 5: the girls that she has. 256 00:14:19,561 --> 00:14:22,721 Speaker 2: And try the person you've come from Wales with. You've 257 00:14:22,721 --> 00:14:25,681 Speaker 2: spent every single waking minute with. You don't know what 258 00:14:25,721 --> 00:14:30,161 Speaker 2: she's thinking. You can't Understandre's been no discussion, no arguments, nothing. 259 00:14:30,921 --> 00:14:34,281 Speaker 2: I mean, this is a Keystone Cops moment. And of 260 00:14:34,281 --> 00:14:37,361 Speaker 2: course at that very same time, Edwina is in a 261 00:14:37,401 --> 00:14:42,241 Speaker 2: forty four gallon drum somewhere on the premises and. 262 00:14:42,361 --> 00:14:48,281 Speaker 5: Remained on the premises, despite several moves of house, remained 263 00:14:48,321 --> 00:14:51,521 Speaker 5: in that drum for another twenty three years. 264 00:14:51,681 --> 00:14:52,761 Speaker 4: It's monstrous, isn't it. 265 00:14:53,281 --> 00:14:57,441 Speaker 5: So in nineteen eighty nine, so six years later, I 266 00:14:57,561 --> 00:15:01,241 Speaker 5: was working at a rural property and the police or 267 00:15:01,401 --> 00:15:05,841 Speaker 5: a policeman came from homicide and he said, oh, I've 268 00:15:05,881 --> 00:15:09,081 Speaker 5: come to talk to you about Edwena Boil and I said, well, 269 00:15:09,121 --> 00:15:10,761 Speaker 5: what's taken you so long? 270 00:15:10,961 --> 00:15:12,561 Speaker 1: Because it was very frustrating. 271 00:15:12,601 --> 00:15:15,521 Speaker 5: We couldn't really do anything in that six years, because 272 00:15:15,521 --> 00:15:19,081 Speaker 5: we've done all we could. Other people had recorded it, 273 00:15:19,321 --> 00:15:23,201 Speaker 5: and others had advertised in the Weekly Times in the 274 00:15:23,201 --> 00:15:25,681 Speaker 5: horse section, which she always read to try and track 275 00:15:25,761 --> 00:15:26,281 Speaker 5: her attention. 276 00:15:26,521 --> 00:15:26,881 Speaker 1: Nothing. 277 00:15:27,041 --> 00:15:31,721 Speaker 5: And meanwhile, her family in the UK get a letter 278 00:15:31,801 --> 00:15:36,761 Speaker 5: from Fred to say Edwena's left, so don't be surprised 279 00:15:36,841 --> 00:15:40,361 Speaker 5: if you don't hear from her at Christmas time. Now, 280 00:15:40,521 --> 00:15:47,241 Speaker 5: Edwena was absolutely fastidious with getting everyone's birthday and Christmas 281 00:15:47,241 --> 00:15:51,961 Speaker 5: presents to England, and it just was unheard of that 282 00:15:52,041 --> 00:15:55,201 Speaker 5: she wouldn't write her weekly letter that she always wrote 283 00:15:55,241 --> 00:15:59,681 Speaker 5: to them, like all communication just stopped. So Edwina's sister 284 00:15:59,841 --> 00:16:04,641 Speaker 5: Val was instrumental in getting some attention with the police 285 00:16:05,281 --> 00:16:10,281 Speaker 5: reported it via Interpol in England and finally it filtered 286 00:16:10,281 --> 00:16:15,921 Speaker 5: out through here and police eventually excavated the Harkaway property 287 00:16:16,081 --> 00:16:19,201 Speaker 5: in nineteen eighty nine and. 288 00:16:19,321 --> 00:16:21,201 Speaker 4: Gone six years by this, yeah, she'd been. 289 00:16:21,121 --> 00:16:21,881 Speaker 1: Gone six years. 290 00:16:21,921 --> 00:16:25,321 Speaker 5: And that was when they started to finally take notice 291 00:16:25,361 --> 00:16:29,561 Speaker 5: that something could have happened. And I said to Bill, 292 00:16:30,161 --> 00:16:33,281 Speaker 5: what's taken you so long? And he said, we now 293 00:16:33,401 --> 00:16:35,961 Speaker 5: think that she may have met with foul play. 294 00:16:36,561 --> 00:16:37,241 Speaker 4: Oh you think so? 295 00:16:38,081 --> 00:16:38,361 Speaker 1: Yes? 296 00:16:38,801 --> 00:16:45,041 Speaker 5: Yes, anyway, twenty three years of vow pushing Vale was 297 00:16:45,521 --> 00:16:48,881 Speaker 5: had a writer in England who was going to write 298 00:16:48,881 --> 00:16:52,081 Speaker 5: a book about it, and I was offering to help 299 00:16:52,241 --> 00:16:56,201 Speaker 5: on this side of her a world with the research 300 00:16:56,441 --> 00:16:59,641 Speaker 5: for the book, and so I spent a lot of 301 00:16:59,681 --> 00:17:04,401 Speaker 5: time researching when and videoed where she used to live, 302 00:17:04,641 --> 00:17:08,801 Speaker 5: interview the occupants of the house. They were very keen, 303 00:17:08,921 --> 00:17:11,481 Speaker 5: said come in, you can film the whole house. We're 304 00:17:11,521 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 5: happy for you to do that. We want her to 305 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 5: be found as well. Went to the chicken farm where 306 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,721 Speaker 5: she used to work, asked if anyone called Ray worked there, 307 00:17:20,761 --> 00:17:25,401 Speaker 5: because there might have been someone called Ray who may 308 00:17:25,441 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 5: have worked at the chicken pill. 309 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,961 Speaker 2: This would have been a basic line of inquiry to say, 310 00:17:29,041 --> 00:17:31,801 Speaker 2: she's not communicating with her family, she's gone off with 311 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,721 Speaker 2: this man, wasn't under her own volition, and who is Ray? 312 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,481 Speaker 2: And as she said before, she doesn't have a wide 313 00:17:37,521 --> 00:17:39,761 Speaker 2: circle of friends. How does she meet a person like 314 00:17:39,801 --> 00:17:42,521 Speaker 2: this who's going to spirit her away completely from her life? 315 00:17:42,521 --> 00:17:44,321 Speaker 4: And just missed opportunities? 316 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 5: So I thought I heard her once maybe say that 317 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,041 Speaker 5: Ray treats me well, and I thought he may have 318 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 5: worked at the chicken farm, but I didn't ask. But 319 00:17:55,241 --> 00:17:57,521 Speaker 5: then it was out in the paddock, and maybe she 320 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,561 Speaker 5: said they treat me well, I'm not ray. 321 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 4: But you had no inkling that she was having her 322 00:18:01,721 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 4: own afild. 323 00:18:02,241 --> 00:18:06,241 Speaker 5: No, the person she wouldn't have had time. But no, 324 00:18:06,321 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 5: she was not that sort of person either. She was 325 00:18:08,721 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 5: very devoted. So went to the chicken farm, did a 326 00:18:12,961 --> 00:18:14,441 Speaker 5: lot of filming around there. 327 00:18:15,041 --> 00:18:16,761 Speaker 1: They found a bone, so I. 328 00:18:16,721 --> 00:18:19,801 Speaker 5: Took that in to get it tested at the coroner's office. 329 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,561 Speaker 1: They said, no, it was an animal bone. 330 00:18:21,801 --> 00:18:24,761 Speaker 4: You are doing the police's work at this moment. 331 00:18:25,281 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: Well, a bit like you, I guess. 332 00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:33,001 Speaker 5: I was like an amateur amateur crime journal at that time, 333 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 5: trying to help with this book, which unfortunately fell apart. 334 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,961 Speaker 5: The writer turned out to be a bit of a charlatan, 335 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 5: I think, more into the money side of things. So 336 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,801 Speaker 5: because you were motivated by justice, oh absolutely, and she 337 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,481 Speaker 5: was trying to help. I had a lot of empathy 338 00:18:51,681 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 5: for val and her family and what they're going through. 339 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:59,801 Speaker 5: Edwina's mother and brother died without knowing the outcome. 340 00:18:59,761 --> 00:19:02,841 Speaker 2: With the cover story that she'd abandoned them completely. 341 00:19:03,281 --> 00:19:05,041 Speaker 4: That must have been such a blow. 342 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,281 Speaker 2: Yes, it was, And knowing they must have known Fred 343 00:19:09,321 --> 00:19:12,561 Speaker 2: the rat had killed her, surely they must have thought that, No, 344 00:19:13,201 --> 00:19:13,721 Speaker 2: they didn't know. 345 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: They didn't. 346 00:19:15,561 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 5: Well, they were young and impressionable, I guess, and they 347 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 5: believe Fred's story and he was apparently a wonderful father 348 00:19:23,001 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 5: to them all those years. 349 00:19:24,321 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 2: So it's grulish beyond belief. Their moving house through this 350 00:19:29,241 --> 00:19:32,201 Speaker 2: next twenty three odd years. Yes, and he's totaling around 351 00:19:32,681 --> 00:19:35,921 Speaker 2: the drum which is now sealed with mum. 352 00:19:35,721 --> 00:19:36,281 Speaker 4: In the drum. 353 00:19:36,521 --> 00:19:39,561 Speaker 5: And there's like party photos in the backyard with the 354 00:19:39,681 --> 00:19:42,641 Speaker 5: drum in the background of the party pictures. 355 00:19:42,761 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 4: See what's happening in his head. 356 00:19:44,241 --> 00:19:48,281 Speaker 5: Yeah, So to me, he's not just a domestic wife killer. 357 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,201 Speaker 5: He's possibly killed more, and he certainly killed more animals. 358 00:19:51,201 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 5: And I'd never actually been with him, just one on one, 359 00:19:55,681 --> 00:19:59,321 Speaker 5: thank goodness. But my poor friend Lee had an incident 360 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,801 Speaker 5: where she was waiting for the vet up during the week. 361 00:20:02,921 --> 00:20:04,921 Speaker 5: She went up there on a day off the horse needed, 362 00:20:05,321 --> 00:20:08,081 Speaker 5: so she's waiting for the vet. Fred said, oh, I've 363 00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:09,761 Speaker 5: got the day off today. Come in, Lee and have 364 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 5: a cup of coffee. So she went in and had 365 00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:14,881 Speaker 5: a cup of coffee and she said he sat down 366 00:20:14,921 --> 00:20:16,801 Speaker 5: at the table, which is something we used to do 367 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,761 Speaker 5: when we were there, So it wasn't out of the ordinary, 368 00:20:18,761 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 5: but he said to Lee, I don't know how and 369 00:20:21,921 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 5: I don't know when, but one day I'm going to 370 00:20:24,481 --> 00:20:25,241 Speaker 5: kill somebody. 371 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:30,801 Speaker 2: He's already done so well, not at that stat not 372 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 2: at that say, well unless he's killed others. 373 00:20:34,241 --> 00:20:36,281 Speaker 1: He killed animals and things like that. 374 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:41,481 Speaker 5: But anyway, Lee said, thank god the vet arrived just 375 00:20:41,561 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 5: then because she was scared out of her wits that 376 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,561 Speaker 5: what's going to happen next. She knew Fred had a gun, 377 00:20:48,321 --> 00:20:50,841 Speaker 5: and he used to boast about his. 378 00:20:50,921 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: Gun and the fact that I don't know much about guns. 379 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,681 Speaker 5: But it came in two parts, and he said, if 380 00:20:56,721 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 5: I ordered my daughters to get the other part, go 381 00:20:59,681 --> 00:21:01,961 Speaker 5: and get daddy's other part of the gun. I've trained 382 00:21:02,001 --> 00:21:06,641 Speaker 5: them not to, almost like a safety mechanism, that if 383 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,321 Speaker 5: he lost his temper and said get the other part 384 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:12,441 Speaker 5: of the garm, that they would obey his training and 385 00:21:12,481 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 5: not get it. 386 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,441 Speaker 1: So this isn't just a normal You're right. 387 00:21:16,921 --> 00:21:18,321 Speaker 4: I think you're right to be suspicious. 388 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 2: You don't really hear Fred's name too much in relation 389 00:21:21,001 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 2: to Frankston Tynong, but I think I think it pops up. 390 00:21:25,481 --> 00:21:28,041 Speaker 2: It does pop up, and there's more reasons why it's 391 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,801 Speaker 2: worth a look, and of course in the end that 392 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 2: Dwina is found. 393 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:33,321 Speaker 4: How did that happen? 394 00:21:34,561 --> 00:21:38,321 Speaker 5: So Careesa, the oldest daughter, was living at home with 395 00:21:38,521 --> 00:21:43,561 Speaker 5: Fred and carum Down's and her long term boyfriend was 396 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,001 Speaker 5: living there who became her husband. And he used to 397 00:21:47,041 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 5: do our cars and then get rid of all the 398 00:21:49,961 --> 00:21:53,001 Speaker 5: bits and pieces at tip. And he tried several times 399 00:21:53,041 --> 00:21:57,921 Speaker 5: to take this drum to the tip and Fred said no, no, no, 400 00:21:58,001 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 5: you can't touch that drum. 401 00:21:59,120 --> 00:21:59,761 Speaker 1: You can't take it. 402 00:21:59,801 --> 00:22:02,001 Speaker 5: And he said, why not, We're cleaning up and he said, no, 403 00:22:02,041 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 5: it's got toxic carpet glue in it. You cannot to 404 00:22:05,441 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 5: the tip. It's got to be disposed of properly. Anyway, 405 00:22:08,721 --> 00:22:12,321 Speaker 5: After a few times, this guy, Michael decided he's very 406 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 5: possessive about that drum and he actually said to Careesa, 407 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,481 Speaker 5: I think your mum's in that drum. Carisa said, don't 408 00:22:21,481 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 5: be so stupid. My mum left years ago. And so 409 00:22:26,321 --> 00:22:28,761 Speaker 5: he was having one of his cleanups with a few 410 00:22:28,801 --> 00:22:32,721 Speaker 5: mates over and they came to cutting up some things 411 00:22:32,761 --> 00:22:35,281 Speaker 5: with some angle grind with an angle grinder, and he 412 00:22:35,441 --> 00:22:38,041 Speaker 5: said to his mates, I'm going to cut this drum 413 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 5: and see what's in it. All of a sudden, Fred's 414 00:22:42,521 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 5: lunch is ready. Come in, everyone, come in. Lunch is ready, 415 00:22:46,721 --> 00:22:49,481 Speaker 5: and so he cut it, but he didn't really get 416 00:22:49,481 --> 00:22:52,161 Speaker 5: to see what was in it. He said, he saw 417 00:22:52,281 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 5: like a slimy brown wallpack that plastic heasi, sort of 418 00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 5: stuff that they used to have wool bales in. He 419 00:22:59,521 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 5: said he saw that, and then they were called into lunch. 420 00:23:03,001 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 5: So when he came back to keep loading the trailer 421 00:23:06,241 --> 00:23:12,321 Speaker 5: after lunch, the drum and the wallpack were gone. A 422 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:16,721 Speaker 5: few more weeks goes on and him and Casa decided 423 00:23:16,761 --> 00:23:19,681 Speaker 5: they're going to separate, so he's moving out, and he said, 424 00:23:20,321 --> 00:23:23,281 Speaker 5: I've got some storage wheelibins and I just need to 425 00:23:23,521 --> 00:23:26,201 Speaker 5: empty out my tools, separate them from your dad so 426 00:23:26,241 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 5: I can move. 427 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: And he actually went out. 428 00:23:29,921 --> 00:23:34,241 Speaker 5: One morning weekday morning and opened one of the wheelibins, 429 00:23:34,281 --> 00:23:36,601 Speaker 5: took some things from the top of it, and then 430 00:23:36,721 --> 00:23:41,321 Speaker 5: down the bottom found the brown woolpack, put his hand 431 00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 5: inside and pulled out some bones. Totally freaked out, and 432 00:23:47,721 --> 00:23:50,001 Speaker 5: he said, even though he was saying that, he didn't 433 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,561 Speaker 5: really think in his deepest thoughts that she would be 434 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 5: in there. So he contacted Caresa, and he said, you've 435 00:23:57,801 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 5: got to come home, and Chrisa said, and they weren't 436 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 5: getting on. Chrisa said, and I'm not coming home. What 437 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,321 Speaker 5: are you talking about? And he said, you've got to 438 00:24:04,321 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 5: come home. I found your mum. And so Careesa went home, 439 00:24:09,961 --> 00:24:14,441 Speaker 5: and her sister Sharon, and her partner or husband. So 440 00:24:14,481 --> 00:24:19,321 Speaker 5: the four of them went there and all were horrified 441 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 5: because they believed Fred all this time they had, and 442 00:24:23,481 --> 00:24:25,241 Speaker 5: they still did after. 443 00:24:24,921 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 2: And you can imagine the kind of narrative they built 444 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,241 Speaker 2: up against their mother. She abandoned us when off with 445 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,441 Speaker 2: ray and never heard from her again. 446 00:24:32,721 --> 00:24:34,561 Speaker 4: What a thing, you know, all the type. 447 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 1: Of stuff that's right. 448 00:24:35,521 --> 00:24:39,401 Speaker 5: So the four of them called police, and the police 449 00:24:39,441 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 5: came and did a full investigate everything in the house, 450 00:24:42,921 --> 00:24:49,561 Speaker 5: took the remains away, and then basically that night, in 451 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 5: a late night session, Fred was charged with murder because 452 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:55,561 Speaker 5: he still had her body after all those years, which 453 00:24:55,721 --> 00:25:00,241 Speaker 5: was quite well preserved because he had concreted the ends 454 00:25:00,241 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 5: of this drum and so it was very very air tight. 455 00:25:04,321 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 2: And his motivation, well, I keep her for all times 456 00:25:08,921 --> 00:25:09,761 Speaker 2: sake or what not. 457 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: I want to keep her. 458 00:25:11,241 --> 00:25:15,521 Speaker 5: I think he's the ultimate trophy keeper good point. 459 00:25:16,761 --> 00:25:19,641 Speaker 1: So basically he. 460 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 5: Went into custody and we had a private funeral for Dwina, 461 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 5: which was beautiful at the end of two thousand and six, 462 00:25:30,201 --> 00:25:34,321 Speaker 5: and the court case came up around eighteen months later 463 00:25:35,321 --> 00:25:36,801 Speaker 5: and he was charged. 464 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 2: I mean, what was the atmosphere at that funeral because people, 465 00:25:40,681 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 2: as you say, the kids had believed that mum had 466 00:25:42,961 --> 00:25:46,001 Speaker 2: left and others maybe have thought that as well, and 467 00:25:46,441 --> 00:25:49,241 Speaker 2: suddenly you're all together with this ghastly. 468 00:25:50,321 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 4: Reality. 469 00:25:51,281 --> 00:25:56,721 Speaker 5: I think we were all of it just numb because 470 00:25:57,961 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 5: a I never thought the day would come, because I 471 00:26:00,481 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 5: thought after twenty three years, I'd sort of thought this 472 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:08,681 Speaker 5: is never going to to transpire. But yeah, so there 473 00:26:08,441 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 5: were the girls, wrote beautiful eulogies and Edwina, her sister 474 00:26:15,241 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 5: Bell came out from the UK. That was the second 475 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,041 Speaker 5: time she'd come out. She'd been out for the inquest 476 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 5: prior to that, so we reconnected with her and you know, 477 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,801 Speaker 5: there's beautiful candles and it was lovely. It was a 478 00:26:27,801 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 5: lovely service, but kind of disbelief. That disbelief, a numbness 479 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:34,601 Speaker 5: and a disbelief. 480 00:26:35,041 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 2: You can imagine his daughters who believed the story all 481 00:26:39,201 --> 00:26:41,801 Speaker 2: these years, and a certain amount of faith and devotion 482 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 2: to their father. You wonder what the conversations were like 483 00:26:44,521 --> 00:26:45,041 Speaker 2: after that. 484 00:26:46,041 --> 00:26:49,801 Speaker 5: Well, they still supported him even through the court case 485 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,001 Speaker 5: because he played not guilty. 486 00:26:51,321 --> 00:26:52,601 Speaker 1: Yes, and he fred, how. 487 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,441 Speaker 2: Does the body get in the drum in your back garden? 488 00:26:54,561 --> 00:26:56,081 Speaker 2: You carry a out for twenty three years and you're 489 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,321 Speaker 2: still not guilty. And the forensic evidence showed that she'd 490 00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:02,561 Speaker 2: been strangled with the men's tie and then shot in 491 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,001 Speaker 2: the head with a rifle. 492 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,281 Speaker 5: Well, forensics said they couldn't say the strangulation because the 493 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 5: vertebrae was separated at that point in her neck. But 494 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,961 Speaker 5: Fred jumped in the witness box at the end, which 495 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,801 Speaker 5: just shocked us all because I wasn't expecting him to 496 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,521 Speaker 5: say anything at all. I usually no after the inquest, 497 00:27:22,561 --> 00:27:23,521 Speaker 5: he didn't speak there. 498 00:27:23,561 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: I just wasn't expecting it. 499 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 5: And he said that he came home late and discovered 500 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,241 Speaker 5: her dad with a gunshot worn from his gun and 501 00:27:33,681 --> 00:27:38,241 Speaker 5: his tie tied around her neck strangled. So he found 502 00:27:38,321 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 5: her like that and they said, well, why didn't you 503 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 5: call the police, And he said, well, it was my tie, 504 00:27:44,281 --> 00:27:47,681 Speaker 5: my gun. I was having an affair. I thought they'd 505 00:27:47,721 --> 00:27:48,761 Speaker 5: think I did it. 506 00:27:49,321 --> 00:27:51,041 Speaker 4: Well, you're right, fred and. 507 00:27:51,041 --> 00:27:55,441 Speaker 5: So he said he was just trying to cover it up. 508 00:27:55,441 --> 00:27:57,441 Speaker 5: He said, in those days, he said, I'm not a. 509 00:27:57,441 --> 00:27:58,081 Speaker 1: Very smart man. 510 00:27:58,201 --> 00:28:02,521 Speaker 5: I didn't know too much about forensics, because the police said, well, 511 00:28:02,561 --> 00:28:05,641 Speaker 5: you could have proven that you didn't do it very 512 00:28:05,681 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 5: easily when we did testing and things. But he just 513 00:28:08,481 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 5: said no, I thought that I'd be blamed. So he 514 00:28:11,041 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 5: said that he found her that he didn't do it. 515 00:28:15,761 --> 00:28:19,721 Speaker 2: A desperate last What amazes me. This is one of 516 00:28:19,761 --> 00:28:24,801 Speaker 2: the most aggravated murder cases. You could imagine the pain 517 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 2: and suffering of the family caused. Kept toting the body 518 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 2: around for twenty three years. He only gets twenty one 519 00:28:31,721 --> 00:28:35,561 Speaker 2: years with the seventeen year non parole period, which means 520 00:28:36,561 --> 00:28:39,921 Speaker 2: I think he's almost eligible for parole this. 521 00:28:39,881 --> 00:28:40,681 Speaker 4: Year or next. 522 00:28:41,321 --> 00:28:46,121 Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, you might be right. He's probably just recently, certainly. 523 00:28:46,161 --> 00:28:49,561 Speaker 2: But I think it was an extremely light sentence considering 524 00:28:49,561 --> 00:28:50,161 Speaker 2: what he did. 525 00:28:50,321 --> 00:28:54,201 Speaker 5: Yes, I think judges these days are a lot heavier well, 526 00:28:54,281 --> 00:28:57,641 Speaker 5: with some sentencing, especially those sort of murders. 527 00:28:57,601 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 2: Better well, they take into account the suffering of the 528 00:28:59,881 --> 00:29:04,081 Speaker 2: victim's family as well, and the egregious nature of the 529 00:29:04,121 --> 00:29:08,121 Speaker 2: aggravated nature of this. By lying and creating a whole 530 00:29:08,121 --> 00:29:10,801 Speaker 2: cover story and toting her around and the horror of 531 00:29:10,841 --> 00:29:12,481 Speaker 2: finding her in that way. That's got to be taken 532 00:29:12,481 --> 00:29:16,121 Speaker 2: into account. You know, I've seen people get sent to 533 00:29:16,161 --> 00:29:19,321 Speaker 2: twenty one years where they haven't even killed somebody grievous 534 00:29:19,321 --> 00:29:20,081 Speaker 2: bodily harm for. 535 00:29:20,001 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 4: Instance, we're just talking to it. For instance, Lauren Huxley 536 00:29:22,241 --> 00:29:22,801 Speaker 4: from Sydney. 537 00:29:23,481 --> 00:29:25,801 Speaker 2: It was attacked by Robert Black farmer and left for 538 00:29:25,881 --> 00:29:28,161 Speaker 2: dead in her house North Meet in Sydney, and he 539 00:29:28,201 --> 00:29:31,281 Speaker 2: got twenty four years with a twenty one on the bottom. 540 00:29:31,401 --> 00:29:33,161 Speaker 4: So Fred was extremely lucky. 541 00:29:33,241 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 5: Yes, I think the judge said that he wanted to 542 00:29:35,521 --> 00:29:40,761 Speaker 5: take into account that the daughter's children, so his grandchildren 543 00:29:41,161 --> 00:29:45,641 Speaker 5: would like to see him out of custody before he dies, 544 00:29:45,721 --> 00:29:48,161 Speaker 5: basically because he'd be getting pretty old by now. 545 00:29:48,641 --> 00:29:50,761 Speaker 1: So I think that was part of it. 546 00:29:50,841 --> 00:29:52,881 Speaker 4: So they know where to visit him if they want to. 547 00:29:53,001 --> 00:29:54,561 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, exactly. 548 00:29:54,801 --> 00:29:56,961 Speaker 2: I don't think that's so reasonable, I think at all. 549 00:29:57,281 --> 00:30:03,401 Speaker 2: But most importantly, no remorse by the sounds of it. 550 00:30:03,361 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 5: No remorse in fact her reputation, which she was a 551 00:30:09,001 --> 00:30:13,121 Speaker 5: very decent, honorable woman who was living her life the 552 00:30:13,161 --> 00:30:16,401 Speaker 5: best she could, and he made her out to be 553 00:30:17,161 --> 00:30:20,281 Speaker 5: someone that ran off with the trucky and abandoned her 554 00:30:20,401 --> 00:30:21,601 Speaker 5: daughters and. 555 00:30:21,641 --> 00:30:25,281 Speaker 4: Let her parents die, thinking that story was true. 556 00:30:25,201 --> 00:30:28,841 Speaker 5: Yes, and telling her sister, if you hear from her, 557 00:30:29,001 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 5: tell her to get in touch with the children. I 558 00:30:31,001 --> 00:30:33,961 Speaker 5: don't know why she would have abandoned them. 559 00:30:34,241 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 2: And the sad irony of all this is that he 560 00:30:36,281 --> 00:30:38,601 Speaker 2: does this so he can be with his mistress Virginia 561 00:30:39,081 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 2: and they don't even spend that much time together. 562 00:30:41,601 --> 00:30:44,801 Speaker 5: No, and I have mixed thoughts about that. I think 563 00:30:45,281 --> 00:30:49,121 Speaker 5: partly he was concerned. I think his main concern was 564 00:30:49,161 --> 00:30:52,761 Speaker 5: when Edwina found out about the affair, which she obviously 565 00:30:52,921 --> 00:30:56,401 Speaker 5: did because someone had seen her in the street and 566 00:30:56,481 --> 00:31:00,481 Speaker 5: she'd had her hair cut short, blonded, and she'd lost 567 00:31:00,521 --> 00:31:01,081 Speaker 5: a lot of weight. 568 00:31:01,801 --> 00:31:04,921 Speaker 1: They said, oh, what's going on. You know you look amazing. 569 00:31:05,121 --> 00:31:07,681 Speaker 5: She said, I'm just trying to keep my husband, and 570 00:31:07,761 --> 00:31:11,601 Speaker 5: so yeah, that was obvious and careesa. It also heard 571 00:31:11,601 --> 00:31:16,121 Speaker 5: them fighting about Fred having an affair, so Edwina was aware, 572 00:31:16,241 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 5: but I think he was worried she would take the 573 00:31:19,321 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 5: children back to England and return home and that was 574 00:31:24,961 --> 00:31:26,521 Speaker 5: they were his possessions. 575 00:31:26,601 --> 00:31:30,521 Speaker 1: Once again. He was very obsessive with things. 576 00:31:32,161 --> 00:31:36,041 Speaker 2: With a deceased body. In the end, Yes, it's monstrous. 577 00:31:36,081 --> 00:31:39,521 Speaker 2: I think you were right to believe there's a capacity 578 00:31:40,001 --> 00:31:43,641 Speaker 2: for further offenses. And I think what they found with 579 00:31:43,881 --> 00:31:47,881 Speaker 2: Duenna's body gives further weight to that what was found 580 00:31:48,321 --> 00:31:49,041 Speaker 2: with her body. 581 00:31:50,081 --> 00:31:54,841 Speaker 5: So I was fortunate that I was able to support 582 00:31:54,961 --> 00:31:57,401 Speaker 5: her sister vo through the whole trial. I got to 583 00:31:57,441 --> 00:32:01,401 Speaker 5: sit there and from the word go, and basically Vow 584 00:32:01,481 --> 00:32:03,881 Speaker 5: wanted me to write notes. She wanted to read them 585 00:32:04,201 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 5: during the evenings when she was, you know, before the 586 00:32:07,241 --> 00:32:11,441 Speaker 5: next court days. So I was madly writing notes as 587 00:32:11,721 --> 00:32:15,881 Speaker 5: going over the forensic evidence at the beginning, and they 588 00:32:15,921 --> 00:32:21,641 Speaker 5: went through mentioning her skull, and then they said there 589 00:32:21,761 --> 00:32:27,481 Speaker 5: was a mass of black hair, black in color, eighteen 590 00:32:27,521 --> 00:32:31,281 Speaker 5: inches long and wavy, and what was Adwena's hair and 591 00:32:31,361 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 5: Awena's hair at the time of her desk would have 592 00:32:34,281 --> 00:32:36,281 Speaker 5: been short blonde. 593 00:32:36,841 --> 00:32:38,121 Speaker 4: Was she a natural blonder? 594 00:32:38,321 --> 00:32:42,401 Speaker 5: She was mousey honey brown like light brown, but not 595 00:32:42,521 --> 00:32:43,001 Speaker 5: dark hair. 596 00:32:43,001 --> 00:32:44,161 Speaker 4: And I don't know what happens with you. 597 00:32:44,321 --> 00:32:47,001 Speaker 2: I guess some forensic experts out there might say, yes, 598 00:32:47,041 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 2: over time here will change color, but it's the length 599 00:32:50,441 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 2: of it black like black. 600 00:32:52,801 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 5: It was so bizarre that so immediately val who became 601 00:32:58,321 --> 00:33:00,801 Speaker 5: like Miss Marple. She looked at me and I looked 602 00:33:00,801 --> 00:33:04,921 Speaker 5: at her. Like black hair long black hair just did 603 00:33:05,121 --> 00:33:09,601 Speaker 5: not fit. And there were a few things that made 604 00:33:09,641 --> 00:33:13,801 Speaker 5: us think earlier maybe he could be involved with the 605 00:33:14,041 --> 00:33:16,401 Speaker 5: Tailong Frankston murders. 606 00:33:16,521 --> 00:33:19,161 Speaker 2: Six women and girls between nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty one. 607 00:33:19,361 --> 00:33:23,321 Speaker 2: Yes found in a close proximity the Frankston Tynong area. 608 00:33:23,481 --> 00:33:28,241 Speaker 5: Yes and Fred had had a van that he says 609 00:33:28,401 --> 00:33:32,361 Speaker 5: was stolen in nineteen eighty and found burnt out at Taynong. 610 00:33:33,481 --> 00:33:37,081 Speaker 5: So we approached our detectives at the time at the 611 00:33:37,121 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 5: court in a break of the court and said, what's 612 00:33:40,481 --> 00:33:41,401 Speaker 5: this black hair? 613 00:33:42,001 --> 00:33:43,281 Speaker 1: And of course. 614 00:33:43,241 --> 00:33:46,001 Speaker 5: Edwena had been buried like eighteen months earlier, so there 615 00:33:46,041 --> 00:33:48,681 Speaker 5: was no sort of coming back apart from photos to 616 00:33:48,801 --> 00:33:49,161 Speaker 5: check it. 617 00:33:49,761 --> 00:33:52,081 Speaker 4: And we said, was she buried or better made it? 618 00:33:52,201 --> 00:33:52,801 Speaker 1: Yes, buried. 619 00:33:52,921 --> 00:33:55,641 Speaker 4: Well, it's potential. There was potential to examine. 620 00:33:55,921 --> 00:34:00,441 Speaker 5: So what's circumstances They said, well, we don't know. We 621 00:34:00,441 --> 00:34:03,601 Speaker 5: were thinking that was probably her hair and obviously it 622 00:34:03,601 --> 00:34:06,321 Speaker 5: had been overlooked because I'm more interested in obviously the 623 00:34:06,441 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 5: dental records to confirm it was her. They weren't really 624 00:34:10,161 --> 00:34:13,881 Speaker 5: focusing on the hair. So Val said to Rod Wilson, 625 00:34:13,961 --> 00:34:17,281 Speaker 5: that's not her, that's a detective, detective, Rod Wilson, that's 626 00:34:17,321 --> 00:34:21,481 Speaker 5: not her hair. Could it be possibly a tiney on 627 00:34:21,641 --> 00:34:25,961 Speaker 5: victim's hair? And Rod said, no, no, we've got that guy. 628 00:34:26,121 --> 00:34:28,721 Speaker 5: He's a projectionist. We know who that was. 629 00:34:28,841 --> 00:34:32,681 Speaker 2: And Harold jam Harold Jadman who they were fixated upon him. 630 00:34:32,721 --> 00:34:35,481 Speaker 5: They were fixated upon him as being the one. 631 00:34:35,521 --> 00:34:37,121 Speaker 1: They just didn't have enough evidence. 632 00:34:38,081 --> 00:34:42,561 Speaker 5: But Vell said, well, there's some anomaly here, huge anonymally 633 00:34:42,681 --> 00:34:45,881 Speaker 5: with her hair and what was found with her, and 634 00:34:46,001 --> 00:34:49,441 Speaker 5: it needs to be followed up. So they weren't really interested. 635 00:34:49,841 --> 00:34:54,201 Speaker 5: And then her and I separately have contacted homicide a 636 00:34:54,241 --> 00:34:58,641 Speaker 5: few times since two thousand and eight to say what 637 00:34:58,801 --> 00:35:02,881 Speaker 5: about this hair? And the second time I contacted them 638 00:35:03,361 --> 00:35:06,201 Speaker 5: the detective, I said, would you just go and look 639 00:35:06,241 --> 00:35:10,281 Speaker 5: at the photos in the archives to see what they shows? 640 00:35:10,361 --> 00:35:13,761 Speaker 5: And he did, he said, and he said that it 641 00:35:13,921 --> 00:35:18,881 Speaker 5: basically showed like he described it, like a massive seaweed. 642 00:35:19,121 --> 00:35:21,121 Speaker 5: But I think they were black and white photos. He 643 00:35:21,161 --> 00:35:24,121 Speaker 5: couldn't really tell. I've done a bit of soul searching 644 00:35:24,241 --> 00:35:28,161 Speaker 5: to bring this out because I've never really spoken about 645 00:35:28,201 --> 00:35:33,041 Speaker 5: it publicly, but it took some persuading I did, and 646 00:35:33,241 --> 00:35:38,521 Speaker 5: it's it's got the potential, of course, to hurt Careesa 647 00:35:38,601 --> 00:35:42,961 Speaker 5: and Sharon, the daughters. And I've spoken to val Vow 648 00:35:43,201 --> 00:35:48,361 Speaker 5: supportive of taking this further and getting the hair analyzed. 649 00:35:49,241 --> 00:35:51,721 Speaker 5: She doesn't want to hurt his daughters either. 650 00:35:52,041 --> 00:35:55,241 Speaker 2: Or I mean, let's interrupt, but is it possible that 651 00:35:55,281 --> 00:35:57,961 Speaker 2: those daughters could be any more hurt wow than they 652 00:35:57,961 --> 00:35:58,641 Speaker 2: already have been? 653 00:35:58,801 --> 00:36:02,681 Speaker 1: I don't think so, that advocate, yeah, so I. 654 00:36:02,641 --> 00:36:05,521 Speaker 4: Think I don't think you should be to restrained by that. 655 00:36:05,721 --> 00:36:08,281 Speaker 1: No and so police. 656 00:36:08,401 --> 00:36:10,641 Speaker 5: When I was talking to the detective, I got the 657 00:36:10,681 --> 00:36:13,721 Speaker 5: same detective twice, even though there are a few years apart, 658 00:36:13,921 --> 00:36:18,281 Speaker 5: and he was still adamant that Harold Janman was the man, 659 00:36:19,041 --> 00:36:23,081 Speaker 5: and thank you very much, Tracy. But he said, anyway, 660 00:36:23,361 --> 00:36:27,361 Speaker 5: exhumation possibly would be thirty thousand, and we don't have 661 00:36:27,521 --> 00:36:30,321 Speaker 5: the department doesn't have that sort of money to spend 662 00:36:30,401 --> 00:36:33,441 Speaker 5: on something like that. I think he thought it was 663 00:36:33,481 --> 00:36:34,521 Speaker 5: a wild goose change. 664 00:36:34,521 --> 00:36:36,801 Speaker 2: I think the chief commissioner flew to Tasmania when the 665 00:36:36,801 --> 00:36:38,601 Speaker 2: police helicopter recently. 666 00:36:38,841 --> 00:36:41,441 Speaker 4: Were not this similar amount of money. So there in 667 00:36:41,521 --> 00:36:43,081 Speaker 4: lies hypocrisy. 668 00:36:43,241 --> 00:36:45,841 Speaker 5: I think he said the Homicides God Cold Case Section 669 00:36:46,001 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 5: didn't have that in their budget or something like that, 670 00:36:48,641 --> 00:36:52,601 Speaker 5: so as tragic as that would be. And I don't 671 00:36:52,641 --> 00:36:57,041 Speaker 5: want to give the time on Frankston families and friends 672 00:36:57,281 --> 00:37:00,921 Speaker 5: false hope either, But all I can do is put 673 00:37:00,961 --> 00:37:04,361 Speaker 5: this out there and say this is what we know. 674 00:37:04,721 --> 00:37:07,921 Speaker 5: We've tried to do it through the police, through the 675 00:37:07,961 --> 00:37:13,081 Speaker 5: proper channels to have this investigated. They're not particularly interested. 676 00:37:13,881 --> 00:37:17,881 Speaker 5: Can we get some interest from police? Hopefully they'll listen 677 00:37:17,921 --> 00:37:20,961 Speaker 5: to this. And I like the way that you've delivered 678 00:37:20,961 --> 00:37:25,641 Speaker 5: it respectfully, and I think the victims deserve. 679 00:37:25,361 --> 00:37:29,481 Speaker 2: That well, and dare I say it, even Fred deserves 680 00:37:29,521 --> 00:37:32,841 Speaker 2: it either he deserves to be convicted for other things 681 00:37:32,921 --> 00:37:36,121 Speaker 2: he's done or exonerated. Let's condemn him for what he did, 682 00:37:36,201 --> 00:37:38,601 Speaker 2: not what we think he did. So this is also 683 00:37:38,601 --> 00:37:40,841 Speaker 2: in his interests as well. And I think the detective 684 00:37:40,881 --> 00:37:43,961 Speaker 2: Rod Wilson's now actually retired, and I think I'm sure 685 00:37:44,001 --> 00:37:45,721 Speaker 2: he would like And I think I might send a 686 00:37:45,721 --> 00:37:47,361 Speaker 2: message to you, right, I think you're on my Facebook. 687 00:37:47,401 --> 00:37:48,041 Speaker 4: I'm going to send your. 688 00:37:48,001 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 2: Message whether you'd like to talk about this, and maybe 689 00:37:50,441 --> 00:37:51,201 Speaker 2: you can help clear it. 690 00:37:51,201 --> 00:37:54,961 Speaker 5: Up maybe and really just Adam to rule it in 691 00:37:55,081 --> 00:37:58,881 Speaker 5: or rule it out, and then Valani because it was 692 00:37:59,001 --> 00:38:01,001 Speaker 5: very early in the case, a lot of the witnesses 693 00:38:01,041 --> 00:38:03,721 Speaker 5: were not allowed into the court by that stage, so 694 00:38:04,801 --> 00:38:08,081 Speaker 5: we were probably the only ones really to take that 695 00:38:08,361 --> 00:38:12,961 Speaker 5: and take that information and go right, there's just something 696 00:38:13,081 --> 00:38:15,721 Speaker 5: that doesn't add up here, whereas a lot of the 697 00:38:15,761 --> 00:38:18,601 Speaker 5: witnesses were locked out until it was their turn to speak. 698 00:38:18,721 --> 00:38:21,281 Speaker 5: So there's probably not a whole lot of other people 699 00:38:21,321 --> 00:38:24,361 Speaker 5: that are aware of it apart from the police. 700 00:38:25,281 --> 00:38:28,841 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that the Victoria Institute of Forensic 701 00:38:28,881 --> 00:38:32,721 Speaker 2: Medicine are excellent at their jobs and they would have 702 00:38:33,361 --> 00:38:37,241 Speaker 2: been over that crime scene where Duena's body was finally found, 703 00:38:37,561 --> 00:38:38,561 Speaker 2: and they would have accounted. 704 00:38:38,641 --> 00:38:41,121 Speaker 4: There would have been material. 705 00:38:40,761 --> 00:38:44,441 Speaker 2: Available on what they saw or what they recorded, and 706 00:38:44,841 --> 00:38:48,481 Speaker 2: if there was other biological material that didn't belong to 707 00:38:48,561 --> 00:38:50,641 Speaker 2: a Duena, it should have been noted. 708 00:38:51,161 --> 00:38:53,441 Speaker 1: It was noted. In fact in the court case. 709 00:38:54,001 --> 00:38:56,561 Speaker 5: There was an electric blanket, there was a mattress, there 710 00:38:56,761 --> 00:39:01,401 Speaker 5: a foam mattress, there was a sheet. There was some jewelry, 711 00:39:01,601 --> 00:39:04,361 Speaker 5: some on the body, some not on the body. But 712 00:39:04,441 --> 00:39:10,201 Speaker 5: this hair, the hair is the glaring anomaly that we 713 00:39:10,361 --> 00:39:13,521 Speaker 5: just can't work it out. And Vow's now closer to 714 00:39:14,281 --> 00:39:19,321 Speaker 5: eighty than seventy probably, and she would like to see 715 00:39:19,441 --> 00:39:22,961 Speaker 5: this investigated, as would I, because we've been through a 716 00:39:22,961 --> 00:39:26,361 Speaker 5: lot together over the years and we've got As Vale said, 717 00:39:26,401 --> 00:39:30,081 Speaker 5: it's an awful thing to bring up, but she also 718 00:39:30,281 --> 00:39:34,161 Speaker 5: understands the years and years of not knowing and if 719 00:39:34,161 --> 00:39:37,841 Speaker 5: it could help another family, that's her main aim. 720 00:39:37,881 --> 00:39:40,481 Speaker 2: And you know there are people out there coming from 721 00:39:40,521 --> 00:39:43,201 Speaker 2: different quarters who think the same thing like you know. 722 00:39:43,241 --> 00:39:44,481 Speaker 4: I spoke recently to Peter. 723 00:39:44,361 --> 00:39:48,401 Speaker 2: Of Atos and his daughter Stacy about the letter that 724 00:39:48,441 --> 00:39:50,081 Speaker 2: Peter wrote from He. 725 00:39:50,081 --> 00:39:51,881 Speaker 4: Was a silver gun rapist. He's not a good guy. 726 00:39:52,401 --> 00:39:54,641 Speaker 4: That doesn't matter. If his information is good, we take it. 727 00:39:55,401 --> 00:39:59,121 Speaker 2: And he wrote from jail about the possible connection with 728 00:39:59,241 --> 00:40:02,481 Speaker 2: Raymond Stinky Edmunds and Lena's murder. 729 00:40:02,641 --> 00:40:03,641 Speaker 4: Obviously that's not right. 730 00:40:05,161 --> 00:40:06,881 Speaker 2: That was a bit of a shock for you to 731 00:40:06,961 --> 00:40:09,361 Speaker 2: learn a bit that he wrote that he wrote, and 732 00:40:09,881 --> 00:40:13,241 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, yeah, they were confusing clues in 733 00:40:13,281 --> 00:40:15,521 Speaker 2: all this, but all worth following up. 734 00:40:16,041 --> 00:40:19,281 Speaker 5: Well, it might jolt someone else's memory. To Mike could 735 00:40:19,361 --> 00:40:22,321 Speaker 5: only hope of that if there is someone else that 736 00:40:22,481 --> 00:40:26,481 Speaker 5: knows something and maybe they will come forward. We can 737 00:40:26,521 --> 00:40:29,721 Speaker 5: only hope for the poor families that are still suffering. 738 00:40:30,361 --> 00:40:33,761 Speaker 5: But yes, for the silver gun rapist to say that 739 00:40:33,921 --> 00:40:37,801 Speaker 5: Edween and Boil is also a tiny victim when writing 740 00:40:37,921 --> 00:40:43,081 Speaker 5: to the Chief Commissioner, I'm not sure how that came 741 00:40:43,121 --> 00:40:46,841 Speaker 5: about apart from yes, Ray Edmonds having that information. But 742 00:40:47,881 --> 00:40:50,801 Speaker 5: you know, there's probably other stuff that we don't know about. 743 00:40:50,561 --> 00:40:53,801 Speaker 2: So I'm not going to draw the obvious coincidence the 744 00:40:53,841 --> 00:40:55,241 Speaker 2: truck driver Ray and then Ray. 745 00:40:55,401 --> 00:40:57,641 Speaker 4: I know, I know, we're not going to go there. 746 00:40:58,401 --> 00:40:59,001 Speaker 4: That's not possible. 747 00:40:59,681 --> 00:41:02,761 Speaker 5: It's relevant because that was a made up thing, because 748 00:41:02,761 --> 00:41:05,801 Speaker 5: a made up thing by Fred exactly. But yes, it 749 00:41:05,881 --> 00:41:07,241 Speaker 5: is a bit of a conciy, yes. 750 00:41:07,281 --> 00:41:10,561 Speaker 2: But there are circumstantial pieces of evidence that are worth 751 00:41:10,921 --> 00:41:13,881 Speaker 2: looking at. In terms of Fred Boyle, he was a 752 00:41:14,001 --> 00:41:16,641 Speaker 2: courier driver at the relevant time. 753 00:41:17,441 --> 00:41:21,281 Speaker 5: And carpet layer with a black van that was big 754 00:41:21,401 --> 00:41:25,481 Speaker 5: enough easily to put someone in if he being a 755 00:41:25,481 --> 00:41:28,841 Speaker 5: bus driver, would be well aware of the vulnerabilities of 756 00:41:28,921 --> 00:41:33,121 Speaker 5: women waiting on bus stops, and he had a van. 757 00:41:33,601 --> 00:41:37,761 Speaker 5: He was very strong. He could I know that police say, oh, 758 00:41:37,801 --> 00:41:40,281 Speaker 5: whoever it was must have had a charming way of 759 00:41:40,321 --> 00:41:41,881 Speaker 5: getting the women into the van. 760 00:41:42,521 --> 00:41:44,041 Speaker 1: He wouldn't have had a charming way. 761 00:41:44,121 --> 00:41:46,841 Speaker 5: He would have just maybe spoken to them and then 762 00:41:47,041 --> 00:41:48,681 Speaker 5: he could have easily picked them up and just put 763 00:41:48,721 --> 00:41:51,481 Speaker 5: them in the van because he was so strong he 764 00:41:51,481 --> 00:41:52,161 Speaker 5: could do that. 765 00:41:52,601 --> 00:41:57,841 Speaker 2: And then mysteriously, at the relevant time, his black Forward 766 00:41:57,921 --> 00:42:02,801 Speaker 2: van disappears. Suppose always stolen and found burnt out. This 767 00:42:02,841 --> 00:42:04,841 Speaker 2: is at the relevant time between those dates. 768 00:42:05,081 --> 00:42:09,321 Speaker 5: It's just after the three Tinong victims were found in 769 00:42:09,361 --> 00:42:14,881 Speaker 5: early December nineteen eighty and yes, it was late December, 770 00:42:15,201 --> 00:42:18,521 Speaker 5: I'm sure when Vince told me that Fred's van had 771 00:42:18,561 --> 00:42:22,401 Speaker 5: been stolen found burnt out at Tynong, which it's some 772 00:42:23,361 --> 00:42:25,081 Speaker 5: more food for salt. 773 00:42:25,081 --> 00:42:28,281 Speaker 2: It is, and I think that's a very responsible thing 774 00:42:28,281 --> 00:42:29,801 Speaker 2: to do to bring up Forard. I really appreciate that, 775 00:42:29,881 --> 00:42:31,401 Speaker 2: and I love the fact that you've listened to the 776 00:42:31,401 --> 00:42:33,641 Speaker 2: podcast and you've decided to come forward with this information 777 00:42:34,121 --> 00:42:35,361 Speaker 2: and we take that very seriously. 778 00:42:35,441 --> 00:42:38,041 Speaker 4: So thank you so much, Tracy Frenzy, Thank you so much. 779 00:42:38,081 --> 00:42:40,281 Speaker 1: Adam appreciate it. 780 00:42:44,881 --> 00:42:45,481 Speaker 4: As Tracy. 781 00:42:45,521 --> 00:42:47,881 Speaker 2: This is I mean, the first the story of Fred 782 00:42:47,921 --> 00:42:50,401 Speaker 2: Boyle and the way he killed Atwena. It's just horrific 783 00:42:50,921 --> 00:42:54,521 Speaker 2: and it does give you enough evidence to think that 784 00:42:54,521 --> 00:42:57,801 Speaker 2: he could have done other things. And this is tantalizing information. 785 00:42:57,881 --> 00:43:00,801 Speaker 2: Tracy's brought up about this massive hair that was kept 786 00:43:00,841 --> 00:43:04,481 Speaker 2: within the bag where Avena's remains. Where is this from 787 00:43:04,521 --> 00:43:07,361 Speaker 2: another victim? The answer was still out there. Police, you 788 00:43:07,401 --> 00:43:11,161 Speaker 2: can find out. You can find out. And I'd like 789 00:43:11,201 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 2: to think that those police at Dandenong who dismissed Lee 790 00:43:15,881 --> 00:43:20,641 Speaker 2: and Tracy as just being meddlesome women, hear this and 791 00:43:20,721 --> 00:43:24,361 Speaker 2: think we let that killer go for decades because we 792 00:43:24,441 --> 00:43:26,121 Speaker 2: didn't take information seriously. 793 00:43:26,401 --> 00:43:27,721 Speaker 4: That's a lesson for all police. 794 00:43:28,121 --> 00:43:30,241 Speaker 2: If you have information about this crime or any others, 795 00:43:30,281 --> 00:43:33,041 Speaker 2: please call crime Stoppers one it hundred, triple three, triple zero. 796 00:43:33,401 --> 00:43:35,001 Speaker 2: Or if you don't trust the cops, and maybe some 797 00:43:35,081 --> 00:43:37,601 Speaker 2: things in this story would make you not trust the police, 798 00:43:37,921 --> 00:43:41,081 Speaker 2: you can always email me, as Tracy did. Adam Shand 799 00:43:41,121 --> 00:43:44,081 Speaker 2: writer at gmail dot com. This has been Adam Shann 800 00:43:44,121 --> 00:43:45,481 Speaker 2: for Real Crime. Thanks for listening.