1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Now a month. Six weeks ago, the Federal Opposition unveiled 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: a policy for seven nuclear reactors around the country to 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: generate baseload electricity, which we desperately need as we move 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: away from coal and certainly down the renewable path. But 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: as we've often discussed and many of you have said 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: over months and years, all very well for getting wind 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: and solar power when the sun is shining and the 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: wind is blowing, but when those things don't happen, we 9 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: rely on gas, which requires generators firing up, and that 10 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: is expensive. Prices peak and generators don't like starting their 11 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: machines until prices are at their peak, so they get 12 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: the best return and we pay that price. It is 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: something that flows through eventually to consume it, So it 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: might not flow through that day or that quarter, but 15 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: down the track as pricing is determined annually based on 16 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: what's likely to happen a fair chunk of it anyway, 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: that's how it's based away we go, so we do 18 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: need some sort of baseload and the Shadow Energy Minister 19 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: Teed O'Brien has been in Adelaide this week where he's 20 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: given a speech calling on Australia to develop sovereign capability 21 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 1: in the nuclear fuel cycle, so we make our own 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: fuel rods here rather than digging it out of the 23 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: ground and sending it off overseas where they make fuel 24 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: rods in other countries. Tot O'Brien on the line, good morning, 25 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: Shadow Minister. 26 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 2: Good morning Matthew. 27 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,279 Speaker 1: We're too next with this. You've got the policy having 28 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: a nuclear industry in Australia and particularly our own foreign capability. 29 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: If we're going to go down the path of nuclear 30 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: power stations, having the capability to make our own rods 31 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: makes sense. Of course, we think. 32 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 2: So, Matthew. If we take a step back and say 33 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: what does Australia need. Australians need cheap, clean and consist 34 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:02,639 Speaker 2: of twenty four to seven power, and your comments before, 35 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 2: I think it's just spot on. You cannot take baseload 36 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: power out of the system. And as it stands right now, 37 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 2: the government's trying to force ninety percent of our twenty 38 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: four to seven baseload power out of the system over 39 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 2: the next ten years with Buckley's chance of any replacement. 40 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 2: And this is where we have to make sure we're 41 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 2: not just thinking short term. In the short term, we 42 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 2: have to bring prices down because South Australians are now 43 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 2: paying among the highest electricity prices in the world. But 44 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 2: we've got to also be planning for the long term, 45 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 2: and that is why we need to see zero missions 46 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: nuclear energy replace retiring coal plants across the country. And 47 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: we already are in nuclear nations, as you know, we 48 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 2: already have a nuclear reactor in Sydney producing medical isotopes. 49 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: We're adopting the nuclear propelled submarines. South Australia is going 50 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: to be critical in that venture, and so going to 51 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: nuclear energy is building on that platform and going one 52 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: step further. But we have to be big in our thinking. 53 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 2: We've got to put Australia first and think of our 54 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: long term energy security, which is why we believe that 55 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: we shouldn't just adopt nuclear energy, but we should also 56 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: become an indispensable part of the global supply chain, which 57 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 2: means moving up the value chain and developing expertise at 58 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: that front end of the nuclear fuel cycle. In other words, 59 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: when you use your nuclear power plant, we our selves 60 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 2: should have the ability to use the final fuel that 61 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: we our selves have created that maximizes our energy security 62 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: for the long term, and as a nation, energy security 63 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: is national security. 64 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: You've got a few obstacles, so states have already said 65 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: no to changing their position on allowing you week clear 66 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: within state boundaries. So you've got that issue number one, 67 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: and number two, we still don't know the cost of 68 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: your policy. When will that be unveiled? 69 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: I think on that first point, Matthew, there's two things 70 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: I'd like to say. Firstly, when it comes to building 71 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: our sovereign capability, we're not talking here about standing up 72 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 2: and end to end supply chain in Australia ahead of 73 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: our initial nuclear power plants in the mid to late 74 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: twenty thirties. We're talking about here a long term national 75 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 2: endeavor that we have to be mindful of and planned 76 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 2: for from the get go. Secondly, then when it comes 77 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 2: to the position of state governments under Peter Darton's leadership, 78 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 2: we've been really open about our approach since coming to 79 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 2: opposition and we are looking at nuclear energy. If there's 80 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: a lesson I've learned from around the world from countries 81 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: that have entered the civil nuclear industry is the need 82 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 2: for trust, the need to be open, They need to 83 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: be transparent, and that's what we've been doing. What that 84 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: means therefore is in taking a very clear and open 85 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: policy to the Australian people where we are granted a mandate. 86 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: In other words, the Australian people say, yeah, look, we 87 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: agree we need a balanced energy mix and that should 88 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 2: include zero emissions, duclear energy. Ultimately, other politicians are different 89 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: tiers of government. I believe they will come on board. 90 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 2: And the more South Australia, for example, understands what's on 91 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 2: offer for Porto Gusta, especially when it comes to unlocking 92 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 2: industrial capability. I think they'll come on board. As for 93 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 2: the costings, Matthew, we've said that the way we're doing 94 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: our costings is putting the consumer, the household, the businesses 95 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: at the center. That's what's important. We've got to get 96 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: prices down. So until we release our policies on gas, 97 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 2: for example, and on renewables, we might be releasing our 98 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 2: full economics of our package, and the economics of course 99 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: deal with nuclear. 100 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: Are you saying you're not going to pass on the 101 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: cost of building nuclear plants to consumers through power bills? 102 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: Is that essentially what I've just heard. 103 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 2: No, what I was saying is in terms of when 104 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 2: we will Your question was when we release the costing 105 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: the economics, and my answer to that is, once we've 106 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 2: released other aspects of our energy plan, we will we 107 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 2: will then release the economics of our entire energy plans, 108 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 2: and that will include the costings with respect to nuclear energy. 109 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 2: But when it comes to passing on costs, here's a 110 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 2: big lesson we've learned from overseas. Once you get energy 111 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 2: in the mixed, prices come down. So in South Australia 112 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: this year, consumers will pay around you know, fifty six 113 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 2: cents to killer what our fifty six cents. In the 114 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 2: province of Ontario in Canada, which has fifty to sixty 115 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: percent nuclear in their mix at any point of the day, 116 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 2: they're paying around fourteen cents fourteen cents verse fifty six cents. Now, 117 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: this is not unusual for what we're seeing around the world. 118 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: Nuclear can't do the job on a day, but when 119 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: it works complementing renewables and gas in the system, it 120 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: brings prices down. And that is the primary reason we 121 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 2: need baseload in the system so we can have cheap, 122 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: clean and consistent twenty four to seven power that requires 123 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 2: a balanced mix including nuclear. 124 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, mister O'Brien, no argument with that. At all. We'd 125 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: all welcome fourteen cents per killer white hour, no doubt. 126 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: But somebody somewhere is still going to have to pay 127 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: for construction and operating the nuclear plants. And I suspect 128 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: that's going to be the consumer, the taxpayer, you name it, 129 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: it's us that'll be paying for it. How are we 130 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: going to do that? How are we going to afford 131 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: to do that? 132 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 2: So what we've announced is that the Australian government will 133 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: be the owner of the nuclear fleet in Australia. Again, 134 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: as we look around the world, Matthew, we see in 135 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: Europe probably the best French their government owned, and our 136 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: part of the world, in Asia probably the South Koreans 137 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: are the ones who are doing the best job at 138 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 2: the moment, and their government owned. I just mentioned Ontario 139 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: before their government owned. One of the reasons why you 140 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 2: have these national champions government owned is we're talking about assets. 141 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: So a power plant that lasts for eighty years, they're 142 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 2: designed for eighty years, they could probably be extended to 143 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: one hundred years. And that's why government then comes in. 144 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: It allows you to basically pay down that asset over time, 145 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: amortizers over a long period of time, and that's where 146 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 2: you can keep pride down. Keeping it too under government 147 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 2: ownership allows us in Port Agusta, for example, to ensure 148 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 2: that that community can receive lower wholesale power prices and 149 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: lower network charges so that we can ensure that we 150 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 2: build our capability on manufacturing as a country, leveraging the cheap, 151 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: clean and consistent twenty four to seven power out of 152 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 2: these power stations. So this is all part of our plan. 153 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 2: It's very detailed and it is based on best practice internationally, 154 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 2: but it's all about getting prices down. 155 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: Got a question on the text line from Ian who 156 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: talks about an ingestion zone around nuclear power plants. Every 157 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: farm will be affected within an eighty kilometer zone. No 158 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: farmland can be within that area. So around Port Augusta 159 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: eighty k's there is obviously farmland, So where do they 160 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: stand and other places around the country around nuclear power plants. 161 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 2: With all respect to Ian Matthew, he might be he 162 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 2: might be queerying a baseless scare mongering campaign that Labor 163 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: tried to run a couple of weeks ago, which was 164 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 2: immediately dismissed by the experts. If you look at nuclear 165 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 2: power plants in Europe, North America, you see productive farming 166 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 2: all the way up to the fence of that power plant. 167 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 2: It is. It is garbage, candidly to suggest that farmland 168 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 2: around a nuclear power plant can't be used as the opposite. 169 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 2: You know, for anyone who's sort of traveled through the 170 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 2: beautiful region of Champagne, probably the most romantic and highly 171 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 2: productive farming area in the world. In France, you see 172 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 2: nuclear power plants everywhere. To suggest you actually can't have 173 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 2: productive farming land up up to the power plant is baseless. 174 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: All right, Talking about low prices per killer what hour, 175 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: I've lost count of the number of people who've called 176 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: in or texted in telling me their solar feed in 177 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: tariff has dropped the four cents per killer one hour, 178 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: and colleague recently had a quote to get solar installed 179 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 1: thirty grand. Now I've got to say, there's no way 180 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: you'd put that on your roof for that price with 181 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: such a low feed in tariff. The incentive isn't there. 182 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: Does that need to change? 183 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 2: Matthew? I think this is probably just symptomatic of what 184 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 2: we're seeing when you put all your eggs in one basket, 185 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: which is what's happening at the moment under the album 186 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: Easy Government. They just want more and more and more renewables. 187 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: And what they're not thinking through smartly enough is the 188 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: fact that when it comes to solar for example, including 189 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 2: on on your roof at home, the sun comes out 190 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 2: at a certain time of the day and you know, 191 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,599 Speaker 2: typically let's say between eleven AM and two pm, it saturates, 192 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 2: including the grid, and so it's causing some issues there, 193 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,599 Speaker 2: which is why people aren't getting the the feed in 194 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 2: tariffs that they once did. Now, is there a solution 195 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 2: to this? There is, and the solution isn't to dump 196 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 2: the solar panels at all, by the way. The solution 197 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 2: goes around the combination with storage and to have smart 198 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 2: control solutions. These are the sorts of things that allow 199 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 2: you basically to time shift when that energy can be used. 200 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 2: So yes, you might capture the energy in the middle 201 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 2: of the day when the sun is out, but you 202 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 2: might decide to use that energy later on. And we're 203 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 2: doing a fair bit of policy work on this as 204 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 2: we speak, actually, and we'll have more to say about 205 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 2: that when we release the Coalition's renewable policy. 206 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: Okay, for people, though considering it, you reckon keep doing it. 207 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: That's what you're saying. There, get a battery, save it up, 208 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 1: use it at night. 209 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, the economists got to work for the individual. 210 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 2: And this is one of the challenges that we've had, 211 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 2: is that the economics haven't been stacking up and batteries 212 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 2: have been too expensive and that's why we're looking at 213 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 2: policy options at the moment. But that's where the solution 214 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 2: really lies. We've got to start combining these intermittent technologies 215 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 2: with storage. I mean, as a basic principle, that's key, 216 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 2: and so people should be doing their own sums. One 217 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 2: of the things I love Matthew about rooftop solar. I'm 218 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 2: a liberal. I believe in property right, so I believe 219 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 2: in the individual and so with rooftop solar, unlike some 220 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 2: of the industrial scale utility plants around regional communities, you're 221 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: a homeowner, you decide it respects property rights, and I 222 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 2: think that's a good thing. Also, having solar on your 223 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 2: roof means you've got energy being generated very closely to 224 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 2: where it's being you. But the problem is because they're intermittent, 225 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 2: they're weather dependent. You don't know when you're going to 226 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 2: get the energy really and when it does come through. 227 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 2: Unless you can store it, then you can't use it effectively. 228 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: So that's where we look around Australia and we say 229 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: we've got the highest rooftop solar penetration in the world, 230 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 2: but the problem is we actually are not doing a 231 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: good job at the storage. So we're coming to a 232 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 2: tipping point now where it's causing problems on the electricity 233 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 2: grid and then how solds are being punished, And it 234 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: all goes back to what's your policy stand Our policy 235 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: stands should not be all eggs in one basket. Just 236 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 2: get these renewables on the roof. You've got to be 237 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: smart about this, which is why combine it with storage. 238 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 2: It's smart control solution. It's got to be part of 239 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 2: the answer. 240 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: You concern support for nuclear maybe waning now that it's 241 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: peaked according to the latest poles dipped slightly, thinking the 242 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: it's going the other way now. Concerned about that. 243 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 2: No, Matthew, I think it depends on which pole you 244 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 2: want to look at. To be honest, I know there 245 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 2: was a story in one of the newspapers saying that 246 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 2: a pole this week said, you know, it's suddenly dipped. 247 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 2: There's another pole that said that people now recognize that 248 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 2: with nuclear in the mix, your power builds are far cheaper, 249 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: so they like it. You know. At the end of 250 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 2: the day, the Coalition has decided that, based on international research, 251 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: we need a balance energy mix that has to include 252 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: nuclear energy to work alongside renewables and gas into the future. 253 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 2: And that's in our nation's best interest. And if we 254 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 2: don't do that, Australians will continue to be poorer in 255 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 2: our nation weaker. So it's not an easy political debate 256 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: that has I'm the first to acknowledge that. But we 257 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 2: have to be able to do this as a nation. 258 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 2: I believe we can. As a nation. We need to. 259 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 2: We need to be primming with pride and self confidence. 260 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: Other countries have been able to do this and make 261 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: it work. There's no reason why Australians can't. And it's 262 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 2: the right thing in our national interest. So that is 263 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 2: why we're taking this on and unashamedly so. 264 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: Todo Brian, thanks for your time. Thanks from US shadow 265 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: Energy Minister on the issues of nuclear and renewables this morning.