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Speaker 1: This episode of Headgame was recorded on gadigal Land.

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Speaker 2: It's October twenty fifteen. Eighteen year old Jake Bailey has

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Speaker 2: been busy studying for his final exams as a two

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Speaker 2: fake becomes more and more painful. Dentists and doctors think

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Speaker 2: the ongoing pain is an infection in his wisdom teeth

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Speaker 2: and schedule their removal in the next few months, but

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Speaker 2: the pain gets too much to bear and his condition deteriorates.

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Speaker 2: Jake heads to the emergency department. After an array of tests,

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Speaker 2: doctors find the most aggressive form of cancer known to

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Speaker 2: man growing in his face. Jake is immediately admitted and

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Speaker 2: told without treatment, he has only two to three weeks

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Speaker 2: to live.

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Speaker 1: After just four days.

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Speaker 2: Of treatment, Jake insists on giving his school captain speech

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Speaker 2: at his high school prize giving. Delivered from a wheelchair.

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Speaker 2: He receives a standing ovation from the audience and the

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Speaker 2: video goes viral.

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Speaker 3: Where if we go and what if we do?

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Speaker 1: May we always be friends?

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Speaker 3: From Midgia.

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Speaker 2: I'm Att Middleton and this is Headgame. Ten years on

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Speaker 2: from that speech, Jake Bailey reveals what cancer taught him

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Speaker 2: and the power of resilience.

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Speaker 1: Buddy, how are you I'm fantastic.

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Speaker 3: It's a privilege to be here coming to your life

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Speaker 3: from the city in Turkey called and Tellia. So privileged

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Speaker 3: to have the opportunity to come along and to get involved.

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Speaker 3: And I've got my fingers crossed at the Turkish Internet.

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Speaker 3: It holds up for us in all honesty.

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Speaker 2: Listen, mate, we'll be good. We'll be good to go mate,

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Speaker 2: don't worry about that, Jake, You've been on some journey.

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Speaker 3: Just talk to me about your sort of.

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Speaker 2: Upbringing and how that looked, and you know, if there

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Speaker 2: are any interests that you had growing up or any

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Speaker 2: sort of careers that you wanted to do before this

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Speaker 2: curveball came and hit you in the face literally, What

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Speaker 2: was like? What was it like growing up for you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I guess I had a relatively normal sort of upbringing.

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Speaker 1: Ay.

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Speaker 3: I grew up in christ Church in New Zealand, raised

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Speaker 3: by two really loving parents. They split when I was

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Speaker 3: seventh and so I ended up with some additional families

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Speaker 3: I suppose as well, which I think was a really

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Speaker 3: really cool example of an opportunity to start learning about

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Speaker 3: resilience and overcoming adversity a young age. Right. Often people

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Speaker 3: ask sort of was there anything earlier on in my

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Speaker 3: life which perhaps better prepared me to face the cancer

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Speaker 3: or to sort of have learned some of those skills

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Speaker 3: and tools around resilience prior to going through that. And

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Speaker 3: whilst I don't think I was particularly resilient before going

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Speaker 3: through the cancer, nor do I necessarily think I'm particularly

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Speaker 3: resilient afterwards, either, I do know that having gone through

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Speaker 3: that relatively normal, average kind of adversity of my parents'

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Speaker 3: divorce was probably the first opportunity which I had as

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Speaker 3: a young guy to start to learn about about getting

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Speaker 3: through tough times right and some of the things and

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Speaker 3: skills and tools and ways in which we can best

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Speaker 3: navigate through that. So through high school I wanted to

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Speaker 3: go and study commerce and law when I left school,

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Speaker 3: and that was certainly the path which I was on

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Speaker 3: when I went through that process of diagnosis. I was

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Speaker 3: enrolled at the University of Auckland to do commerce and law.

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Speaker 3: But yet in terms of interests, you know, I was.

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Speaker 3: I was a pretty boring kind of guy. In all honesty,

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Speaker 3: I have.

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Speaker 2: A few to believe that, Jake, to believe that, come on.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to assure you, I mean a humility aside,

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Speaker 3: We have a running joke in my family about, you know,

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Speaker 3: after the speech going viral and some of the media

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Speaker 3: stuff which I did, that you know, the reporters would

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Speaker 3: naturally look to sort of add some background to me

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Speaker 3: to sort of, you know, to hold me up again

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Speaker 3: sort of.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: You've got to sort of you've got to attribute some

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Speaker 3: sort of descriptive to people to give you a feeling

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Speaker 3: for the right And the running joke within my family

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Speaker 3: was that there was just never any thing really to say, Like,

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Speaker 3: there was one one news article which referred to me

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Speaker 3: as a keen and naturally talented footballer, which was pretty

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Speaker 3: hilarious because I played. I played for the schools fifth eleven,

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Speaker 3: which was the social team, and I did a relatively

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Speaker 3: poor job of that as well. So I was a

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Speaker 3: pretty average kind of guy. I worked work relatively hard

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Speaker 3: on my academics at school and probably over invested into

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Speaker 3: the academic side of things to make up for a

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Speaker 3: real lack of talent when it came to anything sporting

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Speaker 3: or cultural. I wasn't wasn't particularly well rounded. But I

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Speaker 3: was just an average kind of guy and very much

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Speaker 3: enjoyed my youth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what I like about what you just said about resilience.

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Speaker 2: You know that going through your parents divorcing at the

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Speaker 2: age of seven, you subconsciously have to get through that.

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Speaker 2: You know, you build defense mechanisms that you never knew

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Speaker 2: that you had. You start to ask yourself questions that

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Speaker 2: you'd never ask yourself if these traumatic les SAE life

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Speaker 2: experiences didn't happen. And I always say that about my

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Speaker 2: father passing away at a young age. You know, when

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Speaker 2: I because I can look back at it with a

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Speaker 2: positive mindset. Now, you know, I can see all the

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Speaker 2: positives that my father gave me through through his passing.

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Speaker 2: You know, being able to self reflect from a young age,

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Speaker 2: you know, being able to think for myself at a

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Speaker 2: young age, asking myself questions, you know, questioning my emotions,

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Speaker 2: why am I feeling like this? And only I could

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Speaker 2: answer those questions at such a young age. And when

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Speaker 2: I look fast forward, you know, twenty odd years into

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Speaker 2: when I really sort of could process it, I thought

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Speaker 2: to myself, Wow, when you look at those negative situations

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Speaker 2: and you pluck the positives from it, it actually forges

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Speaker 2: you and it's built a sense of resilience. Whether that's

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Speaker 2: psychological resilience, physical resilience, depending on the situation. So I

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Speaker 2: suppose that was that was not something to bypass. That

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Speaker 2: was a huge part of your upbringing. And you say,

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Speaker 2: not much went on, but that was that was huge

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Speaker 2: and would be huge for any seven year old.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: I think sort of what you say there speaks broadly

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Speaker 3: to how we understand that resilience, particularly psychological resilience, has

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Speaker 3: built and developed drive. And I think that you know,

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Speaker 3: for me, one of the things which I've found really

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Speaker 3: exciting over the past, you know, particularly the past six

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Speaker 3: years of working in the space around psychology, is the

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Speaker 3: fact that we can educate people that adversity is a

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Speaker 3: learning and growth opportunity is quite empowering in itself, right.

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Speaker 3: It allows you to go into adversity, to go into challenge,

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Speaker 3: to go and to set back with the mindset that

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Speaker 3: it doesn't necessarily have to all be for nothing, It

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Speaker 3: doesn't all have to be for pain and suffering and

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Speaker 3: set back. It can actually be the opportunity to be

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Speaker 3: left improved and to undergo this process of post traumatic growth. Right. So,

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, the knowledge that we have the

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Speaker 3: opportunity to be left improved by adversity is pretty exciting

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Speaker 3: in itself because it gives purpose and meaning to something

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Speaker 3: which would you know, inherently be a lot more painful Otherwise.

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Speaker 2: When did you start to realize that? Because you were

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Speaker 2: captain for your school team? Right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, I was what we call a senior monitor,

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Speaker 3: which is basically it's a kid boy or asses called

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Speaker 3: them school captain.

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Speaker 2: Were you Were you a popular kid? Were you fun

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Speaker 2: to be around or you know, it's good to have

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Speaker 2: that title, or you're either you know, you're either that

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Speaker 2: academic quite a geeky person, or you're an extremely popular person.

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Speaker 3: Right, So yeah, maybe maybe I broke them old there

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Speaker 3: a little bit as well. I wasn't I wasn't particular

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Speaker 3: I was I was certainly not a popular a popular

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Speaker 3: kind of guy. I got on with everyone. I think

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Speaker 3: that that's something which I was relatively good at the end,

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Speaker 3: and something which I've continued to find a great degree

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Speaker 3: of importance and life since then. As well. It was

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Speaker 3: just the capacity to to understand and get along with

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Speaker 3: pretty much everyone. I'm just genuinely fascinated and excited by people.

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Speaker 3: I really like the opportun unity to sit and talk

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Speaker 3: and learn from from from people of order, from walks

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Speaker 3: of life and backgrounds and countries and cultures. So no,

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Speaker 3: I wasn't wasn't overtly popular. I sort of broadly got

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Speaker 3: on with everyone, But there was definitely a sense of surprise,

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Speaker 3: you know, foremost amongst myself, when I was named as

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Speaker 3: a school captain, right, But aside from from my own

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Speaker 3: shock at it, I think I think broadly people were, yeah,

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Speaker 3: probably quite surprised that I'd been named her boy because

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Speaker 3: I was relatively relatively strong academically, but I was not

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Speaker 3: that well rounded sort of tall, dark and handsome, first fifteen,

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Speaker 3: first eleven academic prodigy, sort of cultural sort of exemplary student.

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Speaker 3: Yeah I was. I was. I was pretty pretty one

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Speaker 3: sided really, So yeah, I wouldn't say that I was

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Speaker 3: necessarily a natural pick for the job, but I think that,

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Speaker 3: if anything, made me feel even more compelled to do

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Speaker 3: the job to the absolute at most of my ability, right, Like,

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Speaker 3: I felt really compelled to do my very very best,

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Speaker 3: and the knowledge that there were other people who probably

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Speaker 3: did deserve the role far more than I did, and

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Speaker 3: so I was pretty keen to sort of ensure that,

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Speaker 3: given that it had fallen on my head, and I

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Speaker 3: was going to do it to the maximum of my capacity.

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Speaker 2: And when you were growing up in your parents' divorce,

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Speaker 2: and did you sway towards one parent more than the other?

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Speaker 2: Which one did you stay with me?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I didn't particularly sway one way or the other.

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Speaker 3: I sort of split my time between them for the

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Speaker 3: first maybe eight years after the breakup, and then I

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Speaker 3: spent in the last couple of years before I moved

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Speaker 3: out of home living with mum full time. I had

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Speaker 3: and still have an incredibly close relationship with both parents,

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Speaker 3: and I felt really grateful for that. I think that,

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Speaker 3: even in terms of what we understand, goes towards creating resilience.

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Speaker 3: Having that sense, particularly for a young person, having that

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Speaker 3: sense of someone having your back, a place where you

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Speaker 3: are safe, a place where you know that you are

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Speaker 3: loved and that you can retreat to during tough times

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Speaker 3: is extraordinarily important. And I didn't just have one of those.

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Speaker 3: I had two of those. So I was incredibly fortunate

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Speaker 3: growing up.

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Speaker 2: Take me back to the day, I suppose where you

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Speaker 2: thought that you had a two fake Was it just

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Speaker 2: a normal day at school and you just did you

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Speaker 2: just have a discomfort in your mouth and thought you

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Speaker 2: go to the dentist and you know, just get your

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Speaker 2: wisdom teeth out and away with it. When did that

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Speaker 2: day come? And do you remember it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So the pain of my and my wisdom seas

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Speaker 3: and jaws started kind of around August sort of time.

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Speaker 3: I don't stually remember the first toothache, but it was

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Speaker 3: it was the sort of thing where it started, you know,

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Speaker 3: relatively relatively minor, and it should be you know, from

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Speaker 3: the outset as well, we should really lay on the

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Speaker 3: table that wisdom teeth hurting is an extraordinarily normal thing

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Speaker 3: as well. Right, So you've got to keep you know,

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Speaker 3: these increasingly sort of sinister symptoms which emerge over the

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Speaker 3: course of this journey. You've sort of got to keep

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Speaker 3: that in perspective with the fact that it's it's it

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Speaker 3: was a had a relatively logical explanation. My wisdom teeth

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Speaker 3: were coming through, my wisdom teeth hurt. That's a pretty

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Speaker 3: universal kind of experience, right. So the toothache started to

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Speaker 3: appear probably August kind of time. It started out as

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Speaker 3: you know, toothache, and it would it would come on

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Speaker 3: for about an hour a day generally, and then and

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Speaker 3: then it would disappear, It would sort of have a

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Speaker 3: pretty abrupt onset and then a pretty abrupt conclusion. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: the pain continued to sort of get worse. And it

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Speaker 3: started out as you know, olch toothache, and then progressively

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Speaker 3: it got to the point where it was extraordinarily, inordinately painful.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've broken bones playing sport and things before,

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Speaker 3: and this was significantly worse than any thing I'd ever

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Speaker 3: experienced prior in terms of pain, to the point where

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Speaker 3: it was the kind of pain where you could sort

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Speaker 3: of only I used to find myself just just walking

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Speaker 3: to try and distract myself. It was the sort of

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Speaker 3: pain where you couldn't sit still, the sort of pain

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Speaker 3: where I was taking you know, leftover opiates from old

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Speaker 3: sports injuries to try and take the edge off it.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, that was sort of the first the first

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Speaker 3: thing which happened. Went to the dentist, and the dentist

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Speaker 3: took some X rays and scans and so on and

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Speaker 3: so forth, and said that there was a dark mark

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Speaker 3: on one side of that scan, but he wasn't particularly

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Speaker 3: concerned by that, and it didn't look particularly ominous or

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Speaker 3: sinister to him. He wasn't sure what it was, but

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Speaker 3: he referred me on to a specialist to have those

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Speaker 3: wisdom teeth taken out and effectively. Whilst I was waiting

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Speaker 3: for that appointment, which was a considerable weight, it was

243
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Speaker 3: about three months from memory before I was able to

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Speaker 3: get in to have the teeth taken out effectively. I

245
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Speaker 3: began to just develop a series of other symptoms or

246
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Speaker 3: to have some strange things go on with my body.

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Speaker 3: So first thing was I lost a lot of weight

248
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Speaker 3: very quickly. I lost about sort of twelve or thirteen

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Speaker 3: kgs over the period of kind of two and a

250
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Speaker 3: half weeks, Like it really fell off quite quickly. I'm

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Speaker 3: five foot seven, I'm not a big guy. I was

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Speaker 3: sitting at probably a nice sixty eight sixty nine kg's

253
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Speaker 3: at the time. I didn't have kind of twelve or

254
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Speaker 3: thirteen kgs to spare. It wasn't like there was a

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Speaker 3: huge amount of padding on me. So so that was

256
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Speaker 3: that was unusual. But the thing was, at the time

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Speaker 3: I couldn't chew any solid food because of this pain

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Speaker 3: in the wisdom seeth. I was living off a diet

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Speaker 3: entirely consisting of vanilla up and go. And what was

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Speaker 3: vanilla up and go is you know, relatively relatively good

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Speaker 3: drink to consume. It's not exactly what you'd call complete nutrition.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't think so when I started losing all of

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Speaker 3: this weight, it wasn't wasn't necessarily that surprising. I was

264
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Speaker 3: living on a diet of up and go, you'd expect

265
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Speaker 3: to lose a little bit of weight.

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Speaker 2: Was that any Was it even one sort of thought

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Speaker 2: process that this could be something else rather than your

268
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Speaker 2: wisdom tea, or were you just convinced in your head

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Speaker 2: it's my wisdom teeth. I'll step through the pain, it's

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Speaker 2: not going to kill me, and you know, I'll get

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Speaker 2: my teeth out in a few months time.

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Speaker 3: Probably in my case, it was really a situation where

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Speaker 3: I was just I was just so naive, Like I

274
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Speaker 3: was an eighteen year old guy. I was under the

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Speaker 3: care of medical professionals, and I had saw wisdom teeth,

276
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Speaker 3: and you know, I'd go to my dentist appointments, but

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Speaker 3: then I was busy thinking about I don't know, the

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Speaker 3: upcoming exams which I had, or the upcoming party that

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Speaker 3: I had that weekend, or going and kicking the ball

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Speaker 3: around with some mates or whatever it may be. Like

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Speaker 3: it was there was sort of life was quite funny.

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Speaker 3: I suppose you feel at that time that life is

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Speaker 3: very full. I think as as an adult you get

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Speaker 3: a whole new perspective on what a full and busy

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Speaker 3: life is compared to an eighteen year old. But at

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Speaker 3: the time, it felt like life was sort of relatively

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Speaker 3: you know, full and complete, and so I wasn't focused

288
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Speaker 3: particularly on any of those those bigger things I was.

289
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Speaker 3: I knew, I knew that I was in the right place.

290
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Speaker 3: I was getting, you know, the care and treatment. I

291
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 3: had some of a part way ahead of me. I

292
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Speaker 3: had this irksome pain on my wisdom teeth, but there's

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Speaker 3: a reason for that, and there was a bit of

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Speaker 3: an end. There was an end to date around that,

295
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Speaker 3: given I had an appointment to get them taken out.

296
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Speaker 3: And in the meantime it was just cool. I've got

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Speaker 3: a couple of months of school left, I've got a girlfriend,

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Speaker 3: I've got mates, I've got parties, I've got sport, I've

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Speaker 3: got university coming up next year. It was just a

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Speaker 3: very normal, average sort of teenage existence.

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Speaker 2: When does reality not reality? Because when are you hit

302
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Speaker 2: we have the news that you've got two weeks to live.

303
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so things began to just progressively get so I'd

304
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Speaker 3: lost all of this weight, and then the next thing

305
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Speaker 3: which happens is I lose all of the sensation, all

306
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Speaker 3: of the feeling through the bottom half of my face.

307
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Speaker 3: So it was sort of everything over my chin, my

308
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,600
Speaker 3: bottom lip, my jaw goes none one day out of

309
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,520
Speaker 3: the blue, and that sensation, that feeling just doesn't return.

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Speaker 3: And it's the same you know, for you if you've

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Speaker 3: had a tooth taken out or a feeling done, as

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you had it the dentist and you come

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Speaker 3: away number through your bottom lip, and everything just happened

314
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,040
Speaker 3: exactly like that one day, except that sensation just didn't

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00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 3: end up returning, and that was a little bit harder

316
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,200
Speaker 3: to explain, but still there was You know that this

317
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,640
Speaker 3: can happen if you can get it, if you get

318
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,240
Speaker 3: in fiction on your and your wisdom teeth, which is

319
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,240
Speaker 3: of course remarkably common as well, there can be sort

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Speaker 3: of pressure which is placed on the nerves which supply

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00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,080
Speaker 3: sensation to that lower half of the face. So again

322
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Speaker 3: it was relatively logical, was not particularly concerning. It was

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00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,680
Speaker 3: it was it was not comfortable, but it wasn't necessarily

324
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,680
Speaker 3: ominous at the time, and then eventually I just housewives

325
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,840
Speaker 3: began to deteriorate until one day I had got to

326
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Speaker 3: the point where I was effectively bedridden. I started throwing

327
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Speaker 3: up blood that day and got put into christ Church Hospital.

328
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Speaker 3: Underwent a whole series of tests and procedures to try

329
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 3: and figure out what the issue was and what was

330
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Speaker 3: causing all of these symptoms. You know, CT scans, PET scans,

331
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,200
Speaker 3: MRI scans, ultrasounds, gum biopsies, kidney biopsies, you know, bone

332
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,480
Speaker 3: marry aspirates, spinal tap, a whole range of different things

333
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,240
Speaker 3: over the course of a couple of days, and effectively

334
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 3: the story began to sort of change, maybe in some ways.

335
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Speaker 3: The story started when a lady came into my hospital

336
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 3: room and sat down on the bed beside me. She

337
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,119
Speaker 3: introduced herself as a hematologist, and I had absolutely no

338
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 3: idea what a hematologist was, but she went on to

339
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,200
Speaker 3: explain to me, very slowly, very calmly, that I had

340
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,119
Speaker 3: that I had cancer, that I had a type of

341
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:35,600
Speaker 3: cancer called Burket's non Hodgkin's lymphoma, which is holiber mouthful,

342
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,040
Speaker 3: that it's the fastest growing cancer which exists it's the

343
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,720
Speaker 3: most aggressive cancer owns to man, and explained that, yeah,

344
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 3: without treatment, I had about two weeks left to live,

345
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,720
Speaker 3: and even worth treatment, there was certainly no guarantee of

346
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:53,719
Speaker 3: survival either way.

347
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Speaker 2: When you receive this news, who's in the room with

348
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:08,960
Speaker 2: you and what's going through your head?

349
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's probably the most common question which

350
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,439
Speaker 3: I get, and unfortunately, you know, it's a great it's

351
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 3: a great question with a really dumb answer. Effectively, I

352
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,320
Speaker 3: wasn't feeling any of the things which should necessarily expect.

353
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 3: I wasn't scared or afraid. I wasn't I wasn't sad

354
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:30,920
Speaker 3: or upset. I wasn't angry or despondent. I think what

355
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,600
Speaker 3: I felt, and I've never really been able to fully

356
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,119
Speaker 3: do this justice I think in describing it, But what

357
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:41,000
Speaker 3: it really felt was like an absolute nothing, like a

358
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,640
Speaker 3: real lack of real emptiness. And I don't know if

359
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,919
Speaker 3: there's probably only one other time I've ever felt that

360
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,480
Speaker 3: since as well, And it's it's quite uncommon because even

361
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,760
Speaker 3: when you feel nothing, then you usually feel something. You know,

362
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,160
Speaker 3: if you're just sitting around and you've got no real emotions,

363
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,160
Speaker 3: then maybe you just feel content, right, there's always some

364
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,920
Speaker 3: sort of underlying sensation or emotional feeling going on within

365
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,480
Speaker 3: you attle times, no matter what. But at that moment,

366
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:10,680
Speaker 3: I vividly recall feeling completely empty, nothing, nothing at all numb.

367
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,440
Speaker 3: Maybe you could say there was not any of those

368
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,480
Speaker 3: those emotions which you might expect, and if there was anything,

369
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 3: then there was probably a little bit of a sense

370
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 3: of let's let's get on with this and get started.

371
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,679
Speaker 3: I'd come to terms immediately with the fact that the

372
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 3: only way through was going to be getting underway with

373
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:30,880
Speaker 3: treatment and getting out of the other side of it,

374
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,200
Speaker 3: and I was really keen to just get back out

375
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 3: into life, and so there was maybe a little bit

376
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,280
Speaker 3: of a sense of I think the determination would probably

377
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 3: sound a little bit too courageous, but there was probably

378
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 3: just a sense of let's just get started. Let's just

379
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,159
Speaker 3: get this underway so we can get it over with

380
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:48,160
Speaker 3: as soon as possible.

381
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 2: Did you think that you could possibly die? Was there

382
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,400
Speaker 2: ever a notion in your head that you thought, well,

383
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 2: I'm Dad's.

384
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 3: No, and I really have to sort of preface this

385
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 3: one with a new explanation that I don't chalk this

386
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 3: up to any sort of bravery or courage or relentless

387
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 3: positivity or optimism or anything like that. In fact, if anything,

388
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,879
Speaker 3: I really just attribute it to teenage naivety. As an

389
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 3: eighteen year old. Teenage boys were not particularly renowned for

390
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 3: having the firmest grasp on our own mortality, right Like,

391
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 3: it's actually one of our one of our greatest weaknesses

392
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 3: is the fact that we actually struggle to comprehend just

393
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 3: our fragile we are. And so there was never any

394
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,119
Speaker 3: sense for me of the fact that I could or

395
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 3: potentially would pass away from the cancer. So there was

396
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 3: never yeah, there was never any fear for me around that,

397
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 3: and I think at the end of the day, that

398
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,239
Speaker 3: was a real benefit which I had going through that

399
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 3: period of time. Never, I genuinely never thought that it

400
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:48,919
Speaker 3: was possible that I was going to pass away, and

401
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 3: consequently I never carried the emotional weight of that. That

402
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:53,919
Speaker 3: was one of the ways in which I had it

403
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 3: quite easy. I think. The other one was the fact

404
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 3: that as an eighteen year old guy, I didn't have

405
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 3: a lot resting on my shop shoulders in the same

406
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 3: way that even now in life if I was diagnosed

407
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 3: with cancer that I would I didn't have a wife

408
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 3: or kids to worry about. I didn't have a job

409
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 3: to hold down or a business to keep ticking over.

410
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 3: In the meantime, I didn't have a mortgage to pay.

411
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 3: I was an eighteen year old guy. My biggest concern

412
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 3: was the fact that I didn't have to go to

413
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 3: my end of view school exams now, which was a perk.

414
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 3: And so I think I'm very, very very grateful for

415
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 3: both of those things.

416
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 2: So when they say to you, right, we need to

417
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 2: treat this immediately, what did the treatment look like and

418
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 2: how important was it that you received it eminently? So

419
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 2: you get the news it's growing all over your face.

420
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,400
Speaker 2: I think they found it in your brain lining, your

421
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 2: eye sockets, your nasal passage, your sinuses, your gums, your jaw,

422
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 2: your spinal fluid, your pancreas, and both your kidneys.

423
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, that's correct. It was well everywhere by that point.

424
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 3: It was pretty diffuse throughout the body. So yeah, the

425
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 3: treatment started within forty eight hours I got the diagnosis.

426
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 3: I spent probably another two or three hours in that

427
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 3: ward in the hospital, which was basically a kind of

428
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 3: a diagnosis ward. It was a place where you put

429
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 3: people who you know there's something wrong with them, but

430
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,680
Speaker 3: you're not entirely sure just what it is yet. Once

431
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 3: they had that answer, I was moved to the treatment ward,

432
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 3: which is a ward called the BMTU, or was at

433
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 3: the time called the BMTU and christ Church the Bone

434
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 3: Marrow Transplant Unit went down there that afternoon. Had a

435
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 3: couple of days of basically prep work before I could

436
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,640
Speaker 3: begin the treatment. Scans on my heart to make sure

437
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 3: that it could withstand the treatment in chemotherapy. I had something,

438
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 3: got a peck line, a peripherally inserted central catheter line

439
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 3: put in, which is basically an IV line which is

440
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 3: fit into the inside of your heart through an artery

441
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 3: on the inside of your bicep. Had all of this

442
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 3: sort of set up done, and then I began the

443
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 3: treatment within yeah, about two days of that, and you're

444
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 3: contained within an isolation room on the ward. I ended

445
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 3: up spending the next fifty two days straight within that room.

446
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 3: I left it sort of once to make the end

447
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 3: of your speech, which ended up going viral. But aside

448
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 3: from that, I was contained to that ward for my

449
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 3: own safety. Your immune system is so compromised by the

450
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 3: treatment by the chemotherapy that if you pick up a

451
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 3: bug or a cold, or anything in that time, there's

452
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 3: a good chance that it can basically be fatal. So

453
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 3: I began the treatment and yeah, one day you're laying

454
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 3: in the bed in there and for the first time,

455
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 3: a nurse walks in and she has a bag of

456
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 3: chemotherapy and it's got a big label toxic on it,

457
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 3: and she's wearing sort of thick protective rubber gloves sort

458
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,679
Speaker 3: of like dish dish washing wash up gloves, and a

459
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 3: full gown and sort of face shield to protect herself

460
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 3: from it. And then she hops it up into the

461
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 3: line in your arm and pumps it directly into you.

462
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 3: And that bag one of of of one hundred or

463
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 3: more bags which I which I then had over.

464
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 2: The coming months, and was there while you're having this chemotherapy.

465
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 2: Is there any operations to remove any of the councils?

466
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 2: It just pure aggressive chemo back to back and until

467
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 2: until until when until what.

468
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, so so for me, for my cancer, there was

469
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 3: no surgery to remove any of the tumors. The chemotherapy

470
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 3: was the full extent of my treatment in my case,

471
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 3: and was something a protocol which which the doctors referred

472
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 3: to as salvage protocol, which I've always found just fucking hilarious,

473
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 3: Like the idea that when the doctors talk about trying

474
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 3: to salvage you, when the medical professionals start talking out

475
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 3: trying to say, you know you're in the share, it's

476
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 3: a pretty good indicator that you're in a pretty sticky

477
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 3: situation at that point. So, yeah, underwent what is what

478
00:24:54,359 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 3: is an extraordinarily aggressive chemotherapy protocol, basically just trying to

479
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 3: hammer away and hoping that it works as well. Like,

480
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 3: it's worth noting that generally with chemotherapy, you put someone

481
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 3: on a pathway of treatment and you give them two weeks,

482
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 3: and then generally after two weeks you sort of reassess

483
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 3: to make sure that it's working, and if it's not,

484
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 3: which it often doesn't, then you can generally change tack

485
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 3: at that point and switch to a different treatment protocol.

486
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 3: To me, I didn't have two weeks to spare right

487
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 3: by that point. I had maybe twelve days to spare,

488
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 3: And so there was there was a real hope through

489
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 3: that time that there was a very strong hope that

490
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 3: it was going to work, because if it didn't, there

491
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 3: wasn't going to be a take too. There wasn't going

492
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 3: to be the opportunity to sort of reevaluate and to

493
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 3: try and come in a different way. So start of

494
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: the treatment process, and yeah, that was it all went

495
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 3: from there.

496
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: So how do you know that first and foremost that

497
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 2: is working? And by a time, because there's a couple

498
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 2: of days after you start the treatment that you decide

499
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 2: that you want to give your speech to your school.

500
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 2: Was the treatment working? And they went, right, it's working.

501
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 2: Therefore you can go out for an hour or two

502
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 2: or whatever it may be. Or is it a case

503
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 2: of listen, we don't know if it's working yet. It's

504
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 2: too soon, however, you might not make it, so go

505
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: out and deliver your speech.

506
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: What one did it fall under?

507
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 3: Yes, so it was it was It was in the

508
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 3: field of what they were monitoring. What they were checking

509
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 3: to ensure that I could go and give the speech

510
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 3: was just around what my immune system was doing. They

511
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 3: knew that if the immunocompromisation had have started by that time,

512
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 3: then then there was no way I was going to

513
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 3: be allowed to go in and set in a room

514
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 3: an auditorium full of you know, five hundred students to

515
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 3: give to give that presentation, because to give that speech,

516
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 3: because if I had had picked something up, as I

517
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 3: say it would have been, it would have been a

518
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 3: whole other kittle of first which we didn't need to

519
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 3: be dealing with at that time, on top of everything else.

520
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 3: So when it came to the day my blood test

521
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 3: results for all fine, My immune system hadn't hadn't really

522
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 3: been destroyed by the chemotherapy at that point. Yet they said, hey,

523
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 3: look from a medical perspective, there's no reason that you

524
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 3: can't go and do it. It's just about whether you can

525
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 3: sort of drag yourself to go and do it, and

526
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 3: whether you can can get yourself over the line in

527
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 3: that way. And you know that was that was really

528
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 3: the bigger, the bigger challenge for me at that point.

529
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 3: Like I look back on it now, I remember vividly

530
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 3: just how violently ill I was the day of giving

531
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 3: that speech, right up too, but just before giving the

532
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 3: speech and after giving the speech, I think I recall

533
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 3: getting prepared for the speech and I had to shave

534
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 3: like I hadn't shaved in about two or three weeks,

535
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 3: and and my parents and indeed the school had said, look,

536
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 3: don't worry about you don't need to be clean shaven

537
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,719
Speaker 3: to come and give the speech. But I you know,

538
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 3: in my head, I thought, well, I'm I'm the head boy,

539
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 3: the school captain, the senior monitor. I'm not showing up

540
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 3: looking looking in front of a whole room full of boys.

541
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 3: I meant to be leading. And so I got out

542
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 3: of bed and started shaving that day, and I remember

543
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 3: just the physical exertion of standing there at the mirror

544
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 3: shaving made me sick. I was throwing up as I

545
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 3: was shaving, and I ended up getting back into bed.

546
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 3: And the nurse by the name of Georgia, who was

547
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 3: I was incredibly close to. We used to say that

548
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 3: she was my sister, and Georgia was on that day.

549
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 3: She came back into the room and she said, you know,

550
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 3: are you gonna do it? You're gonna You're gonna give

551
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: the speech. And I said, look, I can't, I can't

552
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 3: even shave. I've just you know, I've just made myself

553
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 3: sick getting out of bed and shaving. And what she

554
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 3: said was, you know, the baiting, that's fine, but I

555
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 3: just don't want you to regret not doing it. And

556
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 3: she left and so I got out of bed again

557
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 3: and I started getting breast. I started putting my uniform

558
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 3: on and again just the exertion of breasting myself made

559
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 3: me sick. I started throwing up again, and I got

560
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 3: back into bed, and Georgia came back into the room

561
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 3: and she said, are you going to do it? And

562
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 3: I said, I can't get a dressed. Has just made

563
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 3: me physically sick. And she said, that's fine. I just

564
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 3: don't want you to regret not doing it, and she

565
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 3: left again. It got for fox sakes, and I.

566
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 2: Got to I know what you're playing at.

567
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 3: I finished. I finished getting dressed, and my parents got

568
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 3: the wheelchair raady.

569
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,719
Speaker 1: I couldn't walk by that point, and I got up.

570
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 3: I gave Georgia a hug and got into the wheelchair,

571
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 3: got willed to the car. I sat in the back

572
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: of the car, lay in the back seats of the car,

573
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 3: throwing up. We got to the auditorium. I got wheeled

574
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 3: into the auditorium. I sat on the wings, sat side

575
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 3: of stage, throwing up. And actually at the last minute

576
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 3: you actually see this in the video as well. Funnily enough,

577
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 3: there's the moment at the start, just before the speech begins,

578
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 3: where the Headmaster Nikkel explains that I will be there,

579
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 3: that I'll be delivering the speech and there's a round

580
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 3: of applause and then I get wheeled on. What was

581
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: going on side of stage at that time was I

582
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: was sitting in the wings and I actually broke and

583
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 3: Dad was there and I said, Dad, I can't do it.

584
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 3: I want to be wheeled onto the stage, but I

585
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 3: physically can't get through this. I'm not going to be

586
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 3: able to get through. I want to be on stage,

587
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 3: but I want Nikel, the headmaster, to read the speech.

588
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 3: And just as I said that, there was a round

589
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 3: of applause which drowned me out. Dad didn't hear me.

590
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: He crouched down next to me and he said, you'll

591
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 3: be great, and then he started wheeling me out onto

592
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 3: the stage. And I thought, well, it turns out I'm

593
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 3: going to be doing it after all. And that's sort

594
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 3: of or where it started from.

595
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: There Where and when did you write your speech?

596
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: Jake? So the speech had been written actually over the

597
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 3: three months prior prior to the diagnosis as well. It's

598
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 3: something which I actually done a relatively good job at

599
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 3: getting on too fairly early in the year, which was

600
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 3: sort of.

601
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: Very organized organizing.

602
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 3: It was it was very out of character and all

603
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 3: of this and so I'd got onto it relatively early

604
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 3: and had been chipping away at it over the course

605
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 3: of the year. It was very minor tweaks which were

606
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 3: made after the diagnosis, extraordinarily mine. I think there might

607
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 3: have been maybe three lines which were inserted after, one

608
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 3: of which just to acknowledge the fact that the Old

609
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 3: Boys had been an incredible source of support to me

610
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 3: since the diagnosis, one of which was the opening line

611
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 3: about I wrote a speech, and then a week before

612
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 3: I was to deliver that speech tonight, they said You've

613
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 3: got cancer. And it was a third one as well,

614
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 3: which was more around I don't know where it goes

615
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: for us from here, not for me, not for you.

616
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 2: But Jake, when you're doing those tweaks, and so each

617
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 2: jump in it's going to get you while you're in

618
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: this headspace during those tweaks, when you reread the speech,

619
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: did you read it with different emotions? Did you read

620
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: it in a different headspace? You know? Does that make sense?

621
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: You know, if you wrote it before and you're obviously

622
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 2: reading it, you're reading it in a totally different scenario.

623
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: It's a totally different situation. And then when you retweak

624
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: it and you reread it, you know, before you go

625
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 2: on stage, are you reading it differently? Because I can

626
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: imagine as said, boy, you're reading it and you're quite

627
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 2: you know, I'm I'm the leader of this group and

628
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: I'll deliver this message. But now you're a vulnerable leader,

629
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 2: You're you're you know, you're a fragile leader. Did that

630
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: make a difference on how you delivered your speech?

631
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think it didn't. In the lead up, I

632
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 3: practiced the speech a couple of nights or a couple

633
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 3: of times in the nights prior to getting up on

634
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 3: stage and giving it, and I was a weir when

635
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 3: I was reading through it then practicing in my hospital

636
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 3: beard in my hospital room by myself at night, that

637
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 3: it was. It was pretty heavy, like it was. I

638
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 3: could tell the end that it had the circumstances that

639
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 3: I was then had imparted a level of Yeah, it

640
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 3: had lent to another layer of depth to the speech

641
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 3: which had already been written. And I figured that out

642
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 3: then when I was giving the speech on stage. When

643
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 3: I was actually up there presenting it, I was really

644
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 3: just focused on getting through it. My recollections of giving

645
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 3: the speech are really quite sparse. I couldn't see anything

646
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 3: because of the stage lighting. I couldn't hear anything because

647
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 3: my ears were blocked and you know, when you're incredibly

648
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: sick around well in your ears pop and it sounds

649
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 3: like you're underwater, and I couldn't kind of blocked them back.

650
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 3: I couldn't hear anything, I couldn't see anything. I basically

651
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 3: just focused on locking in and getting through the fifteen

652
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 3: or so minutes which it took to deliver, and was

653
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 3: pretty set on just not throwing up down my front

654
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 3: as well. That was one of the vivid recollections which

655
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 3: I had, Like I said, I've been throwing up on

656
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,479
Speaker 3: on the side of stage beforehand. I was throwing up

657
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 3: off stage afterwards. Mum had said, you have to take

658
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 3: your sick bucket up on stage with you in case

659
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 3: you're sick, and I said, Mum, there is no world

660
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 3: in which I'm taking my sick bucket on stage with me.

661
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 3: And mothers generally tend to be right. So I was

662
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 3: fairly nervous that I was going to throw up down

663
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 3: my front. So as as I suppose deep and beautiful

664
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 3: as it looks when you watch the video back, as

665
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 3: you know, significant and poignant as it appears from the outside. Internally,

666
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 3: I couldn't see a thing, couldn't hear a thing, and

667
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 3: was basically just thinking, don't throw up down your front,

668
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 3: which is a far.

669
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: Less kind of grandiose air I suspect.

670
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: And when you finish the speech, do you stick around

671
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 2: or are you straight back into into chemo?

672
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 3: No? So I finished the speech, and then there was

673
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 3: there was a relatively attracted period afterwards, which I think

674
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 3: is in the video of the speech as well. There

675
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 3: was a haka which which some of the boys did,

676
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 3: which was incredibly humbling and remains to the stay probably

677
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 3: the most powerful thing I've ever experienced before. Then there

678
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 3: was a rendition of the school song, and you know,

679
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 3: by this point I'm starting to feel violently ill and

680
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 3: just wishing myself back to my hospital bed, which was

681
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 3: then proceeded by a presentation of a trophy which I'd

682
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 3: won on stage, by which point I was feeling like

683
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 3: I may just you up in it. Just yeah, I

684
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 3: made me exactly it was.

685
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: It was about to becoming a makeshift sick bowl at

686
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: that point.

687
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 3: I think it was getting pretty it was getting pretty dicey.

688
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 3: I do remember thinks sitting on stage in the which

689
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 3: you think Okay, can we can we be done with

690
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 3: this now? Can I just can I get off stage?

691
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 3: At this point, but back into the car, I got

692
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: wheeled out. I was, I was.

693
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: Violently along the way back.

694
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, there's I've been pretty sick prior

695
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 3: as a as a sort of stress, I think, but

696
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 3: I was was a whole new level of seck afterwards.

697
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 3: I was physically so extraordinarily depleted.

698
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 1: And I got back. I don't even remember a lot

699
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: of getting back.

700
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 3: I was. I was delirious. I was sort of not

701
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 3: even necessarily all that all that with it, and I

702
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 3: managed to get myself onto the hospital bed and remember

703
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 3: laying their face down, fully closed with my blazer, my

704
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 3: dress pants, my dress shoes, my tie, my dress shirt,

705
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 3: everything on, and Dad having to strip my blazer and

706
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 3: dress pants and things off me because I just couldn't.

707
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 3: I just couldn't move. I was just I was just yeah,

708
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 3: verging on sort of sort of a twilight slumber edge

709
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 3: of consciousness sort of thing by that point. And yeah,

710
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 3: just completely completely zonged. And I remember waking up the

711
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 3: next day and almost feeling like it was a dream.

712
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 3: Wake up next d it was was mum's birthday. It's

713
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 3: guy fawks. It was the fifth of November and just

714
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 3: just just woke up into a new life, I suppose.

715
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 2: So you wake up, when do you realize that you've

716
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 2: gone viral? When are you actually copis meant is to

717
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 2: realize the magnitude of it.

718
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it was about it was about three days

719
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 3: later that everything started to take that trajectory. I think

720
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 3: the first thing which the first the first thing which

721
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 3: happened the first the first we knew. The first time

722
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 3: I knew sort of the path that the video was

723
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 3: taking was I was sitting in the hospital room, was

724
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 3: my girlfriend, and she was just sitting there on her phone.

725
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 3: We were sort of scrolling and she looks over and

726
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 3: she goes, no way, there's a there's an article here

727
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 3: on Facebook. Let's just come up. It was actually by

728
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 3: seven years over your side of the Ditch. And she said,

729
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 3: that's got five thousand likes on it, and I was like,

730
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 3: oh my god, that's that's ridiculous. And then Australia it's

731
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 3: got five thousand likes on it. And then by the

732
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 3: end of that day that was in the morning. By

733
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 3: that night, the art calls had sort of fifty thousand

734
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 3: likes on them, and and and the views were starting

735
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 3: to track into the millions at that point, which was

736
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 3: you know, and then that it means nothing to me.

737
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 3: As as flippant as that sounds, I mean, it means

738
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 3: absolutely There was no mean, yeah, it's yes, it's it's

739
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 3: like it's like monopoly money.

740
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: It means, it's just nothing to it.

741
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 3: But it was.

742
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: It was a novelty. And I suppose what did mean

743
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: a lot to me which came from that was there

744
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: was an extraordinarily high level of support. There was this

745
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: outboring of of love and care and support for me

746
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: which came from all different corners of the globe, which

747
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 1: was just so incredibly humbling and so so gratefully received.

748
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: You know, that received literally thousands of emails and letters

749
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 1: and cards received, you know, teddy bears and beanies to

750
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: cover my bald head, and you know, blessed prinkets of

751
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: all different religious varieties, and and every copy of a

752
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: religious text under the sun, all of these things sent

753
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: to sense to me from from all different corners of

754
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: the globe, genuine outpourings of care and love and respect

755
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: which were so yeah, it was it was incredibly moving

756
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: and it genuinely did have a really powerful impact on

757
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: my resilience through that time and getting through. You know,

758
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 1: I had a box of emails and letters and cards

759
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: beside my bed, all of which I've read subsequent to

760
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: that time, but at that time, when I wasn't feeling

761
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: that great, I didn't have the capacity to go through

762
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: them all. But when I when I had a really

763
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: low point, when I was when I was doing it

764
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 1: very tough, I'd roll over and I'd pick, I'd pick

765
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: an email or a letter or a card out of

766
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: that box, and I would and I would read it,

767
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: and and people would write the most incredibly kind and

768
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: beautiful things to someone on the other side of the

769
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: globe who had never ever met before and will never

770
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: ever meet, but whome they had this, you know, this,

771
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: this human desire to to support and care for, and

772
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: that meant the mean the absolute world to me.

773
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 2: How did that change your life? Because you know, you

774
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: can't ignore something like that, can you.

775
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 3: I think sort of the two big changes which have

776
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 3: come about as a result of the speech and as

777
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 3: a result of the cancer and the video, there's two

778
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 3: separate threads, and they've sort of been intertwined. I've probably

779
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 3: managed it to intertwine them later on. So the first

780
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: thread would be this sense of understanding which I came

781
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 3: away from the cancer worth of just how powerful and

782
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 3: impactful resilience is on one's quality of life. Like I

783
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 3: came to see that life after the cancer was considerably

784
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 3: better for me than it had been before the cancer,

785
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 3: and I couldn't figure out why that would be, because

786
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 3: logically there were a lot of reasons why life ought

787
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 3: to have been a whole lot worse after the cancer.

788
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 3: I've been left for some long term side effects. I

789
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 3: had this risk of the cancer coming back hanging over

790
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 3: my head for the next five years. From an external perspective,

791
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 3: anyone would expect that my life ought to have been

792
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 3: a hell of a lot harder. But internally I was

793
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 3: a far happier person. I enjoyed my life alone lot more.

794
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 3: I was a lot more grateful, and I couldn't really

795
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 3: figure out why that would be until I came to

796
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 3: the conclusion that it was just simply that I had

797
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 3: learned more about resilience. I developed some skills and tools

798
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 3: and strategies from going through the cancer through the adversity,

799
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 3: which I was then applying to other challenges and adversities

800
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: and setbacks in my life, which meant that I was

801
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 3: basically just spending a hell of a lot less time

802
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 3: worrying about things and suffering through things, and a whole

803
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 3: lot more time really enjoying my life and being out

804
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 3: there doing the stuff which I loved. I was a

805
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 3: happier person as a result of being a more resilient person.

806
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 3: So that was the first thing which I took away

807
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 3: from the cancer, that first thread. The second three, I suppose,

808
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 3: was the opportunities which came about post the cancer. Posted

809
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 3: the video to to sort of share my story and

810
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 3: what I'd learned through that. I received a bunch of

811
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 3: really humbling invitations and opportunities to go and speak for businesses, schools, companies, organizations,

812
00:41:55,280 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 3: sports teams, conferences after the cancer, and have been privileged

813
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 3: in the time since then to be able to go

814
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 3: on and write two books now as well. And I

815
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 3: sort of, I guess I came to the conclusion of,

816
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 3: you know, if there was something which I wanted to

817
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 3: give people from my cancer, if there's something which I

818
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 3: wanted them to take away from my story, the most impactful,

819
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 3: powerful thing which cancer has given me? Where was that?

820
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 3: Piece around resilience. It was those lessons and learnings and

821
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 3: skills and tools around resilience, and I came away from

822
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 3: the experience completely obsessed, fascinated by this idea of psychological resilience,

823
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 3: what it is that creates it, how we can best

824
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 3: and still it within people, what it is that allows

825
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 3: us to make people as resilient as possible, and how

826
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 3: we can most effectively teach them to do that. And

827
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 3: so that's sort of the path which I've followed since

828
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 3: I went away, I studied in psychology, and since then,

829
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 3: for the past ten years or so now I've had

830
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 3: the privilege of presenting to over one hundred thousand people

831
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 3: around the world around resilience, the psychology of resilience and

832
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 3: what it is that we know enables people to most

833
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: effectively overcome the challenges and the up and downs which

834
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 3: we all face in life. And that is what the

835
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 3: cancer has given me, both that understanding around resilience, and

836
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 3: I guess the opportunity to get a bit of a

837
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 3: foot in the door and to be able to grow

838
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 3: and expand that in the time since then to the

839
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 3: point where now that is that that's my work.

840
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 2: When were you told that you were cancer free, and

841
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 2: how touch and go was it or did you just

842
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: crack on for the next five years thinking if it

843
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 2: comes back, I'll deal with it. How did how did

844
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 2: that work out?

845
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 3: Yeah? So the remission came three months to the day

846
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 3: after the diagnosis. It was the January of the following year,

847
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 3: and I was, Yeah, I was incredibly lucky in a

848
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 3: couple of regards. Firstly for getting into remission. I've met

849
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 3: and known and walked this journey alongside a whole range

850
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 3: of people who haven't been as fortunate as I've been

851
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 3: in that regard, Right, I was ancent in remission. I

852
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 3: was lucky. Secondly that my treatment period was only three months.

853
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 3: That's a really short, really abrupt intervention. You know, I've

854
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 3: met seven year olds they have four years of chemotherapy

855
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 3: ahead of them. For me to come away with three

856
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 3: months of treatment was an incredible blessing. And so I

857
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 3: was lucky in that regard. And then yes, I had

858
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 3: these five years of being in remission before I could

859
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 3: be announced as cure. The doctors told me there was

860
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 3: somewhere between a twenty five and a thirty five percent

861
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 3: chance so the cancer would come back, and the verdict

862
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 3: was if the cancer came back, then there was not

863
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 3: a great chance that I would survive at a second time.

864
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 3: The prognosis was not positive. With my type of cancer,

865
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 3: there's effectively one type of treatment available to you. If

866
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 3: it doesn't work the first time, then there's not really

867
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 3: a great expectation that it will work the second time,

868
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 3: regardless of the little things which they can change in

869
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 3: tweak And you know, indeed, I've walked this path and

870
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 3: journey alongside a whole range of other young people who

871
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 3: have been blessed unfortunate enough to make it into remission,

872
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 3: who have unfortunately relapsed and have not had that opportunity

873
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 3: a second time to be cancer free. So I was

874
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 3: thirdly lucky in the sense that I made it through

875
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 3: those five years of remission and came away as cured

876
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty.

877
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 2: One, Wow, Jake, did we talk about resilience psychological resilience

878
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 2: with what you've been through? How do you define resilience?

879
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 3: I really like the sense of being able to just

880
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 3: keep your chin up through tough times. And I think

881
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 3: a big part of how I defined resilience in the

882
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 3: way I look at resilience comes back to adaptability. I

883
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 3: think that really at its core, not only is that

884
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 3: one of the key things that resilience gives you as adaptability,

885
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 3: but I think it's one of the key requirements for

886
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 3: resilience as well as adaptability, the capacity to sort of

887
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,439
Speaker 3: tweak and adjust and change things on the fly. And

888
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 3: I think that that's incredibly import important thing to be

889
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 3: able to do. And I think generally when I see

890
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 3: people who struggle with resilience or struggle around resilience, it's

891
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 3: often one of the main reasons that they do so

892
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 3: is they don't have the opportunity or the ability to

893
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 3: to tweak and adjust things as they go along, as

894
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 3: they need to become set or stuck on a plan

895
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 3: or a passway or a mindset. The ability to yet

896
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 3: to adapt on the fly, I think is an incredibly

897
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 3: important part of resilience, creating resilience, and as a result

898
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 3: of resilience, having that ability.

899
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 2: Jake, you've written two books, now, haven't you. Yes, Yes,

900
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 2: tell me about Tell me about your first book and

901
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 2: then then your second.

902
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 3: So the first book is called What Cancer Taught Me,

903
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 3: and it's basically just a bit of a chronicling of

904
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:55,439
Speaker 3: my story and that that that pasthway of treatment. And

905
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 3: I guess one of my key hopes for that was

906
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 3: that it would I'll just tell my story, but that

907
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 3: it would hopefully act as a little bit of a

908
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 3: guidebook or passway and maybe a handbook for other patients

909
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 3: and their families who are going through that same period

910
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 3: of time in their lives. It's sort of, yeah, it

911
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 3: certainly sort of explains what my journey looked like and

912
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 3: tells tells the story in great depth, but it hopefully

913
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 3: allows other people to have some some sort of pointers

914
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 3: and indicators along the way around how they can navigate

915
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 3: those that time of life, which is you know, so

916
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:35,240
Speaker 3: so commonplace to almost be universal. And then the second

917
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 3: book was released earlier this year, and it's it's called

918
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 3: The Comeback Code. It's a book around the psychoverge resilience

919
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 3: than you. I love that, man. Yeah, yeah, it's it's

920
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 3: sort of I think it captures really what it's about.

921
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 3: It's it's it's it's a book which is a handbook

922
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 3: or a guidebook to learning and developing resilience. It's it's

923
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 3: sort of chronicles the psychology of resilience and interviews a

924
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 3: range of really extraordinarily interesting and talented people about their

925
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 3: own experiences and journeys, particularly within the high performance world

926
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:11,320
Speaker 3: of overcoming adversity and challenge and setback. It draws and

927
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 3: taps into the latest and most prominent research around the

928
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 3: psychology of resilience, but sort of delivers it in a

929
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 3: way which hopefully is easy for people to understand, to retain,

930
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 3: to utilize, and put into practice moving forwards. And it's yeah,

931
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 3: I'm incredibly proud of it. It's been the product of

932
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 3: probably six years, the last six years or so of

933
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 3: the work which I've been doing, and to have it

934
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 3: out there in the world is incredibly satisfying.

935
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 2: Mate. It's going to help a lot of people, that

936
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 2: is for sure. I know you help a lot of

937
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: people anyway with your motivational speaking and the books. I

938
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 2: look at my books as an archive. You know, I'm

939
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 2: going to be gone, my TV work's going to be gone.

940
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 2: But you know, one hundred years down the line, hopefully

941
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 2: my book will be on a shelf somewhere along with yours, mate,

942
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 2: and someone will go, who's this guy here with a beard,

943
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: or who's this captain here? Let's have a look, and

944
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 2: it will hopefully change their perspective or outlook on life

945
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,879
Speaker 2: and for the better and in a positive manner. Jake

946
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 2: has been absolutely phenomenal having you on here, mate, really

947
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: really appreciate it, and looking at you through the screen,

948
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 2: you know you've got that positive aura about yourself which

949
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 2: which always helps. I suppose it helped you through what

950
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,439
Speaker 2: you've been through. But best of luck with all you do, mate,

951
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 2: and thanks for being part of my podcast, head Game.

952
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.

953
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 2: Jake's latest book, The Comeback Code, is available now and

954
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 2: you can follow him on Instagram. I'll put the details

955
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 2: in the show notes. Thanks for joining me on this

956
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 2: episode of head Game. If you enjoyed this episode, please

957
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 2: share it with a friend. I'm Att Middleton. See you

958
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 2: again next time.