Speaker 1: I'll get a team. Welcome to another installing the new project.
Speaker 1: Craig Anthony Harper here, just fucking bright as a button,
Speaker 1: like a little meerkat. Stick of my my head out
Speaker 1: of the typ hole, just to see who's in the
Speaker 1: room with me. It's Peter Jonathan Sheppard. It's Tiffany and
Speaker 1: Cook good a little buggers. How are you. Let's start
Speaker 1: with the lady in the room. That's you, tif Well.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at you in headphones, so I am real good.
Speaker 2: I'm real good, hearts.
Speaker 1: It's only taken you six years of badgering me like
Speaker 1: a fucking kid in a lolly shop, and here I
Speaker 1: am with headphones on like a grown up. And I
Speaker 1: got to say, you should try it. It's really good.
Speaker 1: You should know you should try it. It's much better.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad I thought of it. Go Harp. So
Speaker 1: I couldn't be proud of me, you know the way
Speaker 1: that I'm just an early adopter. You know, I just
Speaker 1: picked things like this up an old I'm not that
Speaker 1: old crusty bloke in the Muppets up in the stand
Speaker 1: next to the other krusty bloke. I'm not him at all.
Speaker 1: Run r Pat Shepherd. Welcome back to the show, son.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, mate.
Speaker 3: It's good to be in the company of a technology
Speaker 3: savant and of course.
Speaker 4: As well, I am.
Speaker 1: I was going to use a word off the back
Speaker 1: of technologically, I'm just going to go technologically challenged.
Speaker 4: That's the word.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, somewhat inept.
Speaker 4: I have Tiff.
Speaker 1: I have Tiff, so she bullies me, but with good intentions,
Speaker 1: and I think that's the main thing underneath the bullying
Speaker 1: is love, you know.
Speaker 2: And it took five years for the headphone, so that's.
Speaker 1: Good, I know, And I'm on board. I'm on board.
Speaker 1: What's the next thing you want? What's thanks? What's the
Speaker 1: next thing you want to boss me on?
Speaker 2: Let me go grab the list?
Speaker 1: Okay, hey Pete, what are you been up to?
Speaker 4: What are you been up to up.
Speaker 1: There in the bloody Sunshine State?
Speaker 3: Live in the dream mate, Just you know, chipping away.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm on a plane every second week
Speaker 3: at the moment, trying to help trying to help leaders
Speaker 3: and teams be more effective as we try to. But
Speaker 3: outside that, I'm training for I'm doing the Nooser Triathlon
Speaker 3: in November, which is a bit of fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you.
Speaker 3: Know, I've got a two year old, so I feel
Speaker 3: like I'm constantly in a state of crawling around the floor,
Speaker 3: playing matchbox cars and hot wheels and running around parks
Speaker 3: chasing kids.
Speaker 1: Well, it says one thing your two meter body is
Speaker 1: built for. It's crawling around on the floor.
Speaker 4: You're telling me, You're telling.
Speaker 3: Nothing will make you feel older than trying to peel
Speaker 3: yourself off the floor after playing on the ground for
Speaker 3: two hours with a kid.
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, it takes me a little longer to get up.
Speaker 1: And how is the little bugger? How is he going?
Speaker 3: He's good, he's full of beans. He's tipped over to now,
Speaker 3: probably since we last spoke, which, yes, which means he's
Speaker 3: It feels like he learns. I mean, it's such a
Speaker 3: fascinating thing seeing a human learn to speak and use
Speaker 3: words and associate shapes and colors with words and numbers,
Speaker 3: and the whole thing is it's wild. It's really cool.
Speaker 3: He's great, he's happy, he's healthy, he's keeping us on
Speaker 3: our toes.
Speaker 1: So all this and there'll never be a time in
Speaker 1: his life where he's learning quicker than now. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's going to keep going for a while, But that
Speaker 1: the rate of learning and understanding and comprehension and cognitive
Speaker 1: and emotional and physical development is called fucking through the roof,
Speaker 1: that's why. And then we get to like twenty and
Speaker 1: then we flat line n till we die.
Speaker 4: Totally still to.
Speaker 3: Think about, if I think about only a year ago
Speaker 3: when he was one, you know, the difference between now
Speaker 3: and then is like different different species.
Speaker 4: If I think about myself a.
Speaker 3: Year ago, I'm like, huh, pretty much the same person,
Speaker 3: the same grumpy, middle age thirty seven year old, you.
Speaker 1: Know, But that is that is you know I did.
Speaker 1: I was joking when I said we hit twenty m
Speaker 1: flat line util we die. But some people we kind
Speaker 1: of do. God bless them, they kind of do.
Speaker 4: They.
Speaker 1: You know, the bloke that you knew at twenty, he's
Speaker 1: the same bloke, just more wrinkles and shit and still
Speaker 1: grumpy and still hates the world at fifty, still blame
Speaker 1: in everyone. Yeah, that's one of the challenges I think
Speaker 1: is to you know, not necessarily in a strategic or
Speaker 1: an academic or a formal way, but to be a
Speaker 1: lifelong learner, to be able to keep consciously progressing your
Speaker 1: mind and you're thinking and your brain and your cognitive
Speaker 1: function and having aware of having an awareness of that
Speaker 1: as you age, and consciously doing something to keep your
Speaker 1: brain in shape.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like it takes more effort each year. It
Speaker 3: feels like more intention, more physical and emotional labor to
Speaker 3: do that.
Speaker 1: I reckon the key is just walk through a new door. Though.
Speaker 1: It's like, if I spend the next year trying to
Speaker 1: learn more about the brain and the mind, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: not that I'm elite, but like I've spent the last
Speaker 1: six years formerly doing that, right, So next year, when
Speaker 1: I finished what I'm currently doing, I would like to
Speaker 1: just go And it doesn't have to be anything strategic.
Speaker 1: It could be do a fucking Barista course, but just
Speaker 1: something that I know nothing about I've got no skill in,
Speaker 1: you know, just to do something totally different where I'm
Speaker 1: in inverted comma is the dumbest one in the room,
Speaker 1: because then then my my, uh, you know, level of
Speaker 1: learning is high, you know, and there's that that that
Speaker 1: gradient is kind of quite steep, versus me doing more
Speaker 1: of essentially the same for another year.
Speaker 4: Not a whole you know.
Speaker 1: Of course I'm going to keep learning, but yeah, to
Speaker 1: consciously do something different. I've toyed with doing a second language,
Speaker 1: which I can only speak obviously English, but it's to
Speaker 1: try and get really fluent in something that I'm interested in,
Speaker 1: just for the sake of doing it for my brain,
Speaker 1: but also i'd be cool to be able to speak
Speaker 1: whatever Italian or Ye. So yeah, what about It's.
Speaker 3: Funny you say that because I in the last twelve
Speaker 3: months I've had a few requests from clients about self
Speaker 3: paced workshops and courses and it's one particularly one of
Speaker 3: the biggest companies in Australia, which I've been running around
Speaker 3: doing a bunch of work for, and they said, look,
Speaker 3: we've got like thousands of leaders that we can't afford
Speaker 3: to always show up to all these sessions that we're running,
Speaker 3: and we'd love to give them something. Could you do
Speaker 3: like a self paced, kind of modulized series of workshops?
Speaker 3: I thought, yeah, I could, And so rather than sit
Speaker 3: here and record it on my iPhone, I thought it
Speaker 3: would be cool to call our mutual friend Josh Jansen,
Speaker 3: who runs a video production company, and say, if you
Speaker 3: were tasked with helping me build a little studio at
Speaker 3: home so that I could sit in front of a
Speaker 3: camera and record higher quality videos with good sound that
Speaker 3: look better than like they were shot on my iPhone?
Speaker 4: What would that look like?
Speaker 3: And he sent me off down this rabbit hole of
Speaker 3: this other I don't know what you call him, educator course,
Speaker 3: content creator. And I did this online course essentially on
Speaker 3: how to build a home studio. And when I say
Speaker 3: I was feeling totally out of my depth where they're
Speaker 3: talking about apertures and cameras and lenses, I mean I
Speaker 3: was so out of my depth. And I would message
Speaker 3: and call Josh every now and then and be like,
Speaker 3: I just spent fucking half a day trying to get
Speaker 3: the lighting right.
Speaker 4: What a waste of time.
Speaker 3: And he was reminding me just like you kind of
Speaker 3: did a no, that's this is the fun part. This
Speaker 3: is the point you're learning about something that you know
Speaker 3: nothing about. As a result, you will have knowledge at
Speaker 3: the end of it that you will be able to
Speaker 3: have forever. And like you're just doing something you haven't
Speaker 3: done for a while, which is learn something from scratch.
Speaker 4: And the end product is like I have a pretty
Speaker 4: good grass one.
Speaker 3: How to set up my little office here as a
Speaker 3: home studio, get the light right, get the camera going,
Speaker 3: get the sound in and it looks pretty cool, and
Speaker 3: so it it's the most recent example I have I've had,
Speaker 3: apart from learning how to be your father, of like
Speaker 3: trying to learn something from scratch as a total newbie.
Speaker 4: It was totally really hard as well, I.
Speaker 1: Think apart from the obvious outcomes of whatever it is,
Speaker 1: better skills, better knowledge, better capacity to produce you know,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to produce. But yeah, just the just
Speaker 1: what happens to your brain and your mind and in
Speaker 1: the middle of all of that is awesome, you know.
Speaker 1: I remember when I started, So I finished my last
Speaker 1: degree in two thousand and three, two thousand and two,
Speaker 1: started my next one in twenty nineteen, and I remember
Speaker 1: having conversations with professort Yousell, who was the head of
Speaker 1: Brain Park, which is a neuroscience neuropsycho lab. It's been
Speaker 1: on the show once and one of the smartest people
Speaker 1: I've ever met. And even with my supervisor now Chris
Speaker 1: and I've got too lucy, But back then, when I
Speaker 1: was talking going tou Sell, I'm he would say something,
Speaker 1: you know, like November when I started, and we're having
Speaker 1: these conversations about what my research would look like and
Speaker 1: how to do this and how to do that right.
Speaker 1: It's very very well, it's not very much. It's completely
Speaker 1: self directed learning, right. So you've got to design your
Speaker 1: own studies, run your own studies, get the venue, get
Speaker 1: the people, get ethical approval. There are no semesters, no
Speaker 1: one standing over your shoulder to help. There's no one
Speaker 1: to go talk to. You need to make appointments with
Speaker 1: your supervisors and you can't just walk into someone's room
Speaker 1: and go, hey, I wanted to know. You can't do
Speaker 1: that right. It's all well for me anyway, and they're
Speaker 1: all very busy and they'll have multiple students that they
Speaker 1: take care of in that PhD supervisory role. And I
Speaker 1: remember him talking to me and I'd go wait, wait, wait,
Speaker 1: and he's like what. I go, I don't know what
Speaker 1: that means. He's like what he'd be saying something. I'd go, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's cool. I don't know what it means though, and
Speaker 1: I go, I'm fifty five, I'm dumb, and you're one
Speaker 1: of the smartest motherfuckers in Australia. So I did say, motherfucker,
Speaker 1: I'm mad. It might have.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And just like even learning the language, even learning
Speaker 1: like what is a thesis. I don't know what a
Speaker 1: thesis is? What is that?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 4: What is a dissertation?
Speaker 1: What is you know? How do I design a study?
Speaker 1: What's ethical approval mean? Like? What is that? You know?
Speaker 4: What is Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like when you're starting from almost behind the starting line,
Speaker 1: like a lot of obviously the majority of half my
Speaker 1: age of the students, which good, well less than half
Speaker 1: my age, right, some of them, and then they come
Speaker 1: in fresh off the back of you know, study, like
Speaker 1: they finished four months ago. Now they're doing their PhD.
Speaker 1: I finished when just after Jesus passed away, right, So
Speaker 1: it's like so long between I didn't know anything. I
Speaker 1: was so dumb. But anyway, you get you get good,
Speaker 1: you get better, you know, I still want to rate
Speaker 1: myself highly. But I have a language now that I
Speaker 1: didn't have.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, And it's it's the discomfort that you have
Speaker 3: to go through to get to that sort of learning though,
Speaker 3: that I think we we call myself out. We avoid
Speaker 3: probably almost unconsciously, because we like comfort. I mean, you
Speaker 3: know this better than anyone having studied it. Yeah, we
Speaker 3: like to do things that are comfortable. And putting myself
Speaker 3: intentionally in a position where I know nothing about a topic.
Speaker 3: Is a is a pretty good way to make myself feeluncomfortable,
Speaker 3: but it's trying to remember the benefit of doing that.
Speaker 1: I've probably had ten times over the last seven years
Speaker 1: or eight years of the show where I've been talking
Speaker 1: to somebody and I literally have this feeling in the
Speaker 1: middle of this idea, I'm too fucking stupid to talk
Speaker 1: to this person. I like, I don't even know of
Speaker 1: the middle of that's it.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 1: Like they're talking about something and I'm I understand twenty
Speaker 1: percent of what they're saying, Like I don't fully understand
Speaker 1: what they're saying. So I'm going, oh God. And I
Speaker 1: interviewed this old dude who's just a sweet art called
Speaker 1: Professor Ahmi Goswami, who is an academic but also like
Speaker 1: a spiritual guru and just this giant brain and this
Speaker 1: beautiful nature and this giant heart right just the I've
Speaker 1: never met him, I've only met him online. And I
Speaker 1: spoke to him for an hour and he was just
Speaker 1: going down rabbit holes and explaining things, and you know,
Speaker 1: you want to ask a relevant, informed question off the
Speaker 1: back of that for the listeners, you know, because you're
Speaker 1: kind of the conduit between you know, some really really
Speaker 1: smart people and you kind of almost just trying to
Speaker 1: keep the lines of information relevant and understand and you know,
Speaker 1: so you go, so do you mean by that? ABC? Right?
Speaker 1: I didn't even know, and I just stopped and he finished,
Speaker 1: and I said, Professor, can I admit something? And he goes,
Speaker 1: of course, of course, and I go, I think I'm
Speaker 1: too stupid to interview you, and he laughed.
Speaker 4: He laughed.
Speaker 1: I said, I literally don't know what to ask you.
Speaker 1: I said, oh, you know, it's like I've just been
Speaker 1: thrown into a game of ice hockey with in the NHL,
Speaker 1: and I'm wearing all the shit, but I can't play,
Speaker 1: you know. I'm like, oh my god. And he's anyway,
Speaker 1: he was amazing and it made me feel better on
Speaker 1: my own show about my inadequacy.
Speaker 3: I'm like, professor, can you please give me a question
Speaker 3: to ask you? Because I don't know what.
Speaker 4: You just said?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, could you send me a few questions so I
Speaker 1: sound smart and I can regain some of my lost
Speaker 1: self worth. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about And
Speaker 1: by the way, did you not t just getting on
Speaker 1: stage a bit these days? And I don't mean dancing
Speaker 1: and singing.
Speaker 3: I feel like I heard rumors last time we were
Speaker 3: chatting with that, well a little bit on it.
Speaker 1: She's climbing the ladder and she's got a gig coming up.
Speaker 4: Nice.
Speaker 1: Tell tell Pete at l what you're up to in October.
Speaker 4: TIV very excited, Pete.
Speaker 2: I've been doing a course in speaking, which has been
Speaker 2: well out of my comfort zone, learning lots of new stuff,
Speaker 2: well out of my comfort zone. And seven of there's
Speaker 2: an event at the end of October, so there'll be
Speaker 2: eight of us speaking and we had to put in
Speaker 2: a pitch to an external panel, so we had to
Speaker 2: go through the whole process and I got I got
Speaker 2: a spot, So I'm really excited.
Speaker 4: Congrats. Let's just don't eat me clapping, but I'm clapping.
Speaker 1: And so the whole thing's filmed, right, and yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've got a thousand questions.
Speaker 4: Well, I want to know from Tiff, like.
Speaker 3: You know, as someone who's I've probably drowned in corporate
Speaker 3: the last eighteen years, what's what's like? What's it like
Speaker 3: from a beginner's mind perspective? What are your learnings or
Speaker 3: quirk that you notice amongst corporate audiences as you're learning
Speaker 3: this and getting better at this, undoubtedly very good at
Speaker 3: the skill.
Speaker 2: A lot of the learning has been around how to
Speaker 2: structure information and how to structure the talk. And that's
Speaker 2: not my jam. I like to be very harpified, a
Speaker 2: very freestyle and very just engaged with the audience. And
Speaker 2: I think you from previous talks you might be very similar.
Speaker 2: So there's been but there has been a lot of
Speaker 2: great insights into how to make things land and how
Speaker 2: to not overwhelm audiences with too much. I think I'm
Speaker 2: probably as guilty as I can be of that, wanting
Speaker 2: to kind of give all of all of the gold,
Speaker 2: all of the things. Yeah, and I think it's made
Speaker 2: me So, it's made me here and see speakers differently.
Speaker 2: So and notice what about speakers engages me or what
Speaker 2: lands and what I'm left with? Which is the most
Speaker 2: important part, isn't it? Because we can all like people,
Speaker 2: but it's what we are impacted by that stays with
Speaker 2: us and makes us change things that actually really matters.
Speaker 4: H love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the what's the one thing, if anything, that
Speaker 1: you've kind of changed your mind about or you've done
Speaker 1: a little bit of a one eighty on in terms
Speaker 1: of how you do this thing, like from two or
Speaker 1: three years ago when you were opening the door and
Speaker 1: getting some momentum to now where you've got more momentum,
Speaker 1: what have you what have you learned or what have
Speaker 1: you unlearned and changed?
Speaker 2: I reckon I'm still in the middle of that because
Speaker 2: one of the reasons I'm really excited to have been
Speaker 2: gotten an opportunity to have this particular event is because
Speaker 2: I don't believe that I would see through all of
Speaker 2: the learnings left to my own devices. So this is
Speaker 2: the opportunity to be coached and I like to say forced,
Speaker 2: but that sounds negative, but yeah, forced to deliver exactly
Speaker 2: everything that we're being taught in terms of how scripted
Speaker 2: and how curated the content is, which is going to
Speaker 2: give me a lot more of a lot more control
Speaker 2: over timing, which will be important in doing more corporate stuff,
Speaker 2: Like I can't just wing it and go, oh, well,
Speaker 2: I'll talk about this, this and this and then we'll
Speaker 2: I'll just do Q and A if I need to
Speaker 2: fill it in, Like I've always landed well with timing,
Speaker 2: but I think that is not always a great thing
Speaker 2: to have f lining by the ceedy of pants m.
Speaker 1: En years. For you, what's maybe two big things that
Speaker 1: you have learned that may or may not be relevant
Speaker 1: to but they are for you that you either it
Speaker 1: was a light bulb for you and it made things
Speaker 1: better for you, or you did like I said with
Speaker 1: Tiffer one ad on changed in mind about you know
Speaker 1: two things that were significant over that eight a year journey.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 3: The two that comes to mind immediately I both learned
Speaker 3: from the same person, which was Seth Goden, who I've
Speaker 3: mentioned in our previous chats.
Speaker 4: I've been lucky enough to spend a.
Speaker 3: Bunch of time with working on projects for and also
Speaker 3: just becoming a friend of a mentor. But the two
Speaker 3: things that I think about the most. The first is
Speaker 3: he wrote a book called Purple Cow.
Speaker 1: I knew you were going to say that, I love that.
Speaker 1: You no better. I love that. It's like he and
Speaker 1: I went Purple Cow.
Speaker 4: But great book.
Speaker 1: No great book.
Speaker 3: It's a great book. And I mean the premise is
Speaker 3: you don't need to read the book to get the premise.
Speaker 4: The premise is.
Speaker 3: You walk past the field of cows, and one hundred
Speaker 3: percent of the time the cows are a combination of
Speaker 3: the same color. They're black or they're brown, or they're white,
Speaker 3: or they're white, or they're black or they're brown. All
Speaker 3: the cows essentially look the same. And can you imagine
Speaker 3: what would happen if you walk past the field of
Speaker 3: cows and all of a sudden there was this bright
Speaker 3: purple cow in the middle of it. You would stop,
Speaker 3: you would take a photo, you would call your friend,
Speaker 3: you would pass it on, you would tell a story
Speaker 3: later that day.
Speaker 4: I can't believe I saw this purple cow. You won't
Speaker 4: believe it. Let me show you. Let me show you.
Speaker 3: And the point of his metaphor is, if you're going
Speaker 3: to go to the effort of creating something, create something
Speaker 3: worth remarking at, create something that has a little bit
Speaker 3: of purple in it. And so I think a lot
Speaker 3: about if I'm doing a talk or a workshop or
Speaker 3: getting on a stage, what is my purple cow?
Speaker 4: I think about that a lot.
Speaker 3: The second one I also learned from him, which is
Speaker 3: a I think perhaps the number one thing that makes me.
Speaker 4: Perhaps sound smarter.
Speaker 3: Than I am, and that is to not say and
Speaker 3: so Seth, I think you wrote a blog post about it.
Speaker 3: But I had a conversation with him about it one day,
Speaker 3: where he was saying, what happens when I'm speaking is
Speaker 3: where our brain is trying to think of what to
Speaker 3: say next, but it's also speaking what we're saying now.
Speaker 3: And if we go too fast, what ends up happening
Speaker 3: is our brain doesn't have the ability to do both things. Now,
Speaker 3: this is probably a little bit of bro science, so
Speaker 3: feel free to forgive me all of your science listeners,
Speaker 3: and you, Craig. And so what happens if we're going
Speaker 3: too fast is we stop saying the thing we want
Speaker 3: to say, and in order for our brain to think
Speaker 3: about the thing it has to say next, there's this
Speaker 3: gap and we fill the gap with because most of
Speaker 3: us feel uncomfortable filling it with nothing. Yes, that said
Speaker 3: to me. The fix is so simple. You just instead
Speaker 3: of saying ah, just say nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just.
Speaker 3: Just sit in silence and wait. And by the way,
Speaker 3: if you slow down, you'll find that you actually have
Speaker 3: to say it or use that even less. And so
Speaker 3: through having a podcast, doing a bunch of speaking, and
Speaker 3: working my tail off at it, I can pretty comfortably
Speaker 3: go weeks without using the word or a phrase. And
Speaker 3: that involves talking on stages, doing live Q and a
Speaker 3: coaching one on one without script. And I've had people.
Speaker 3: I've had people ask me at the end of a workshop,
Speaker 3: how did you how did you not say ARM once today?
Speaker 4: Like that was their takeaway.
Speaker 3: It was like they didn't even really hear anything I
Speaker 3: said other than they noticed the delivery was this guy
Speaker 3: didn't say uh. And I don't fest to have this superpower.
Speaker 3: I just fest to have learnt this skill from SETH
Speaker 3: which is instead of saying just say nothing and just
Speaker 3: give you a brain a chance to catch up.
Speaker 1: I feel like the twenty twenty five version of ARM
Speaker 1: is like.
Speaker 3: Now that one I still have in my vernacular. So
Speaker 3: that's my next one I need to work on.
Speaker 1: So we like like an ARM or in the one sentence, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was he was like really mad? Like well, was
Speaker 1: he like really mad or it was actually really mad
Speaker 1: or just like it? And what's the difference between like
Speaker 1: really mad and really mad? That's true verbal?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes for me.
Speaker 3: When I and it's funny now that I have spent
Speaker 3: so much time energy trying to get that out of myself.
Speaker 4: Yes, I cannot help. But notice when there's.
Speaker 3: An hother on stage and it is great, you'll get
Speaker 3: the most senior leaders of some of the biggest, most
Speaker 3: important organizations or peak bodies on stage doing a Q
Speaker 3: and A with whoever, and they are just arming everywhere.
Speaker 3: And I just have this theory that if you don't,
Speaker 3: you can just sound smarter than you actually are.
Speaker 4: At least that's been my experience.
Speaker 1: It could be the title of the show, arming everywhere.
Speaker 4: I'm going to go all over the place.
Speaker 1: It's either going to be purple cows or umming everywhere.
Speaker 4: There are the two that come to mind for me,
Speaker 4: What about you? What are your two harps.
Speaker 1: For a so for a period of time, okay, two
Speaker 1: things come to mind.
Speaker 4: One is.
Speaker 1: I used to really stay in my comfort zone with
Speaker 1: what I knew. I've spoken to Tiff about this because
Speaker 1: I think TIF and I our development and how like
Speaker 1: there was real similarity between you know, where I was
Speaker 1: early days and where she was a year or so ago,
Speaker 1: and even recently I've said to her, which is where
Speaker 1: I was, that like, you're really good in this space.
Speaker 1: You're really good, You're confident, but you need to get
Speaker 1: into that space a bit because we can't only talk
Speaker 1: about you know, physiology and training and sets and reps
Speaker 1: and fucking micros and macros for the next thirty years,
Speaker 1: like we really need to, you know. And so for me,
Speaker 1: I had a real propensity to stay in my safe
Speaker 1: space and I would talk about human performance and you know,
Speaker 1: self management and human optimization, but I wouldn't really open
Speaker 1: the cognitive, emotional, human behavior, who am I?
Speaker 4: Who are you?
Speaker 1: Connection rapport, like all these other kind of sociological and
Speaker 1: psychological and emotional kind of factors that are really important
Speaker 1: components of living and thinking and doing better. Because I
Speaker 1: felt fraudulent, you know, and maybe that's even part of
Speaker 1: what I did my PhD. Right. And one of my
Speaker 1: friends actually said to me when I was about thirty,
Speaker 1: they heard me at a gig. It was a public
Speaker 1: gig and it went quite well, but they said, you're
Speaker 1: really good, and I loved it, but they had heard
Speaker 1: me ten times. You need to learn more stuff, like
Speaker 1: you stay in this little echo chamber of knowledge. And
Speaker 1: I stayed where I was safe, and yeah I could.
Speaker 1: It's like I was a triathlete. I was awesome at
Speaker 1: fucking running, but I couldn't ride or swim, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: And I did all my training as a runner because
Speaker 1: I was good at that and when I swam, I
Speaker 1: was shit, and when I rode, I was shit. So
Speaker 1: I focused on the thing I was good at. The
Speaker 1: second thing for me was like a learn and then
Speaker 1: unlearned was I did a gig years ago where somebody
Speaker 1: from I can't remember which speaking agency, maybe ICMI or
Speaker 1: Saxton's like as you know who they are, but most
Speaker 1: of our listeners might not. There like two of the
Speaker 1: biggest speaking agencies in Australia. And it was back when
Speaker 1: a lot of people got a lot of work through
Speaker 1: speaking agencies. Now a lot of it's online and through
Speaker 1: word of mouth. And you know, it's still they have
Speaker 1: a place, but I don't think it's the same as
Speaker 1: it was. And I'm still represented by eight or ten
Speaker 1: different companies, right And anyway, this lady was coming to
Speaker 1: assess me and I was doing I was actually doing
Speaker 1: the opening keynote for what's it called TIF the Fitness
Speaker 1: Industry Firelex. I was doing the opening for FILEX, which
Speaker 1: is a big was a big deal back then, and
Speaker 1: heaps of people and I knew this lady was coming,
Speaker 1: so I thought I need to be good. So I
Speaker 1: made all of I didn't somebody else did made all
Speaker 1: of these powerpoints, so I'd be razzle dazzle, I would
Speaker 1: look professional. I was, you know, so look at me.
Speaker 1: I'm slick, I'm organized, I've got a process, I'm a
Speaker 1: speaking professional, and of course you know what I'm going
Speaker 1: to tell you, right. So I got up there and
Speaker 1: I just started banging on, and twenty minutes in I
Speaker 1: forgot that I even had slides, So I went, oh,
Speaker 1: or maybe not twenty, maybe ten. I'd been talking for
Speaker 1: ten and then I turned around and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: cover that, op, cover that. So everyone's now looking at
Speaker 1: my back as I'm looking at the screen and I'm
Speaker 1: sliding like a fucking wombat, and the lady, the ladies
Speaker 1: in the front row over near the door, like twenty
Speaker 1: feet away from me with a fucking clipboard writing notes.
Speaker 1: Am I okay? Anyway? And then I did the best
Speaker 1: thing I could have done, and I went, hey, everyone,
Speaker 1: can I be honest? And they're like yeah, I go, okay.
Speaker 1: See that lady over there, she's she's from a speaking
Speaker 1: agency and she's assessing me right now to see whether
Speaker 1: or not I could be part of the team on that,
Speaker 1: and I said so in order to impress her, I
Speaker 1: told the story. I sat literally on the edge of
Speaker 1: the stage, swing on my feet and talking. It was
Speaker 1: a high stage, and I told the story and I said, so.
Speaker 1: I didn't say fuck, but essentially I said, so, are
Speaker 1: you okay if I fuck off the slide show? And
Speaker 1: they go, please, please fuck the slide show off, and
Speaker 1: I went, yeah, I'm sorry. So I'm probably not going
Speaker 1: to get a gig with that organization, but fuck it,
Speaker 1: let's go. And then so for the next forty or
Speaker 1: fifty minutes it was just free range me doing my
Speaker 1: thing right, and at the end I got the gig anyway.
Speaker 1: But the lady came up and went, oh, you definitely
Speaker 1: shouldn't use that every again. She goes, not everyone needs
Speaker 1: to do that. She goes, you definitely don't, and by
Speaker 1: the way, you're terrible at it, so don't. I'm like
Speaker 1: no to self. Yeah, So I thought I used to
Speaker 1: think I needed to be more like other speakers. I
Speaker 1: need to be more like them, because whenever I would
Speaker 1: go to a conference, everyone but me had this great
Speaker 1: slideshow and videos and graphs and charts and data, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't have that. I'm just a storyteller,
Speaker 1: and I just you know, I share thoughts and ideas
Speaker 1: and messages mainly through metaphor and story.
Speaker 4: That's your purple.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's my purple. I guess, yeah, and I
Speaker 1: thank you that is that is true. So yeah, and
Speaker 1: I mean, but then over the years, you know, I've
Speaker 1: kind of I've woven more science and more information and
Speaker 1: data and research in, but it's still usually it's backed
Speaker 1: up with a story or a metaphor or a real
Speaker 1: life kind of explanation, and I keep the jargon out
Speaker 1: of it. So so I mean, but I think also,
Speaker 1: you know, you you go in with an idea of
Speaker 1: how things are going to go. And I told this
Speaker 1: the other day on the show. So I apologize and
Speaker 1: I mentioned to you before. But I did a gig
Speaker 1: up in the bush the other day and they were
Speaker 1: just amazing. And now imagine how much you could not
Speaker 1: do this in the city. So all super laid back,
Speaker 1: all super laid back. They've never had a professional development day.
Speaker 1: It was a real estate company, Milduror, so this was
Speaker 1: a new thing and they've got me all day. Now
Speaker 1: that's a lot. You know, It's like when people don't
Speaker 1: even when somebody's got a sit and be present and
Speaker 1: pay attention to one hour of someone unless that someone's
Speaker 1: pretty good. It's like ten minutes in everyone's checking their
Speaker 1: watch or their phone or their you know. So they
Speaker 1: were very gracious and also very grateful, which was nice.
Speaker 1: But we I could tell straight up, it was very informal.
Speaker 1: The I really relaxed and before we got gone, it's like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get some going to get some coffees, Craig,
Speaker 1: do you want to do you want to coffee? Craig?
Speaker 1: Do you you know, like really laid back, and I said,
Speaker 1: before we start swearing or not, and this is at
Speaker 1: the start, and about six of them go fuck yeah
Speaker 1: of course, and then the rest laughed and kind of
Speaker 1: pumped the air. I'm like, okay, this is this is
Speaker 1: my natural habitat. And I said to them, you know
Speaker 1: what this is? Like they go what? I go nine
Speaker 1: eighty five?
Speaker 4: I go, this is this is the best.
Speaker 1: Like they're like, what's political correctness? What's HR? You know,
Speaker 1: and like just nobody chos nobody chose to. I mean,
Speaker 1: we need HR. I get it. I get we need
Speaker 1: political correctness. I get it, But sometimes it's that far
Speaker 1: over the line. I'm like, fuck, it does my head
Speaker 1: in and it was just a fun day and I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. But the thing is the way that
Speaker 1: I spoke with them that day, and the way that
Speaker 1: we interacted and the stories that were told, and the
Speaker 1: level that we went to by the way we would
Speaker 1: have had I reckon. Three to five people on the
Speaker 1: day come up to me and cry and just because
Speaker 1: we pushed a button, you know. And then the boss
Speaker 1: who I'm going to throw him under the bus because
Speaker 1: he's a good man. His name's Joe. There's two bosses.
Speaker 1: He's one of the bosses. He comes up to the
Speaker 1: front and we just finished for the lunch break and
Speaker 1: he's standing next to me and he's talking about what
Speaker 1: we've been going through, and what we've been going through.
Speaker 1: Had pushed some buttons for him and soding up the front.
Speaker 1: He just started to he couldn't speak for a moment,
Speaker 1: and he was getting emotional and then he shed a
Speaker 1: little tear up there, and I just walked over and
Speaker 1: gave him a hug. I just like, I don't care
Speaker 1: if he doesn't want it. He's fucking getting one, right,
Speaker 1: So I just gave him a big hug and I
Speaker 1: just whispered in his ear mate, you're great, you're doing great.
Speaker 1: Gave him a hug. He was good, everyone was respectful,
Speaker 1: and you know, so it's nice to have this. I
Speaker 1: don't know this pendulum between you know, here's some funniness,
Speaker 1: here's a bit of whatever, here's a couple of stories.
Speaker 1: But by the way, we can talk about how you're feeling.
Speaker 1: We can talk about depression and anxiety and mental health.
Speaker 1: We can talk about why you're sad right now. And
Speaker 1: I'm not going to make fun of that, and I'm
Speaker 1: not going to tell a dick joke. I'm just going
Speaker 1: to be here listening to you and giving you a
Speaker 1: hug if you need that, you know so, I think
Speaker 1: that for me, I need that flexibility to be able
Speaker 1: to re read the room and respond accordingly. And because
Speaker 1: I'm terrible with a script, terrible, I'm not even good
Speaker 1: with just a plan that alone a script. But you know,
Speaker 1: we get through it all by the end of the day.
Speaker 1: What about yourself, Where do you sit in these scripted
Speaker 1: versus freestyle like which I mean it's a scale, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think one's pretty much a soliloquy. The other ones,
Speaker 1: you know, you're running around with your undies on your
Speaker 1: head punching the air.
Speaker 4: I'm probably closer closer to the undies. I think.
Speaker 3: That's good though, right, maybe not all that way, But
Speaker 3: I go in. So the questions I want to get
Speaker 3: super clear and before I go in is who's it for?
Speaker 3: Who's in the room, who's the audience are they? Are
Speaker 3: they the country? Are they the country? Folks from a
Speaker 3: small town and a real estate agency where they've never
Speaker 3: done any professional development. Well, if I know that, that's
Speaker 3: probably going to change how I approach it. So I
Speaker 3: want to know who's in the room or are they
Speaker 3: you know the bankers A's ed in Melbourne on Collin
Speaker 3: Street and they just want it. You know, there are
Speaker 3: a different audience, So I want to know who's in
Speaker 3: the room. I want to know what a success look
Speaker 3: like for them in this session. If success is we
Speaker 3: want three new ideas on how we could you know,
Speaker 3: have our leaders thinking about AI or we want to
Speaker 3: have four questions that we can ask to coach each
Speaker 3: other next time we're in a T meeting, whatever it is.
Speaker 4: So tell me what success is, tell me.
Speaker 3: Who's in the room, and then I'll I'll concoct on
Speaker 3: a on a whiteboard or I'm holding up like a
Speaker 3: yellow legal pad, literally a scrap at a paper, a rough
Speaker 3: idea of how I think we can get there.
Speaker 4: You got the same one.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to show you it at won't show up, yep.
Speaker 3: Go on, and I'll have an idea of how I
Speaker 3: want to deliver success based on who's in the room.
Speaker 3: And then I give myself permission a bit like you,
Speaker 3: but nowhere near to the to the to the skill
Speaker 3: set probably or the undies on my head that you
Speaker 3: might embrace.
Speaker 4: I will.
Speaker 3: I will give myself permission to get there. However, we
Speaker 3: need to get there based on what's happening in the room.
Speaker 3: So if someone asked a question two minutes in and
Speaker 3: I'm like, huh, it feels like something we should spend
Speaker 3: some time, I'll spend some time on that question. I
Speaker 3: will not think I've got a whole script here, and
Speaker 3: I want to get through this script.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's really important to acknowledge that
Speaker 1: I've seen you speak multiple times and I'm not pissing
Speaker 1: in your pocket. You're amazing. You're an amazing speaker. And
Speaker 1: if people said to me, we want you to go
Speaker 1: in there and do what Pete does. I couldn't. I
Speaker 1: couldn't because I'm not you. And it's not trying to
Speaker 1: compare the quality of what you do or TIF does
Speaker 1: or I do, but it's like you're great at what
Speaker 1: you do, but you're not me. There are similarities, I think,
Speaker 1: and I'm not you. We're not better or worse. I
Speaker 1: think we're both somewhat competent at what we do with
Speaker 1: room for improvement. And you know, I think that realizing
Speaker 1: that there are a myriad of different coaches and teachers
Speaker 1: and speak and for want of a better term, you know,
Speaker 1: subject matter experts that will all approach this, you know,
Speaker 1: what looks to be the same thing a different way,
Speaker 1: and all produced pretty good outcomes, even though they're they're
Speaker 1: unique in the way that they deliver whatever it is
Speaker 1: they're delivering.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean that's what to me why
Speaker 3: I go back to, not to like redversise it one
Speaker 3: hundred times, back to the idea of purple, because what's
Speaker 3: purple for you is different to what's purple for me,
Speaker 3: and what's purple for Tiff is different to what's purple
Speaker 3: for both of us.
Speaker 4: It's like tips.
Speaker 1: Holding up a purple stress ball and you missed it.
Speaker 2: It's a blue apple, and it's it's Jacqueline's version in
Speaker 2: this course, and that's what we started by buying our
Speaker 2: blue apple before we did anything else.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no way, I wondered, I thought you had I
Speaker 4: thought you had.
Speaker 3: A massage ball and you were like working your lower
Speaker 3: back while we were recording.
Speaker 2: Like I was looking for it when I disappeared under
Speaker 2: the desk, where's that blue apple?
Speaker 1: So that's that's so she talks about that in the same.
Speaker 2: Kind of Yeah, it's the very first thing we work out,
Speaker 2: because it's because there's no new concepts, there's nothing that
Speaker 2: hasn't been talked about before, So you've got to make
Speaker 2: sure that you've got something that's worth hearing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. That's great in terms of wisdom, and
Speaker 1: you know, of course knowledge is always developing, but in
Speaker 1: terms of human behavior, there's not a whole lot that
Speaker 1: hasn't been spoken about or the mind or the brain
Speaker 1: or you know, communication or connection or happiness or joy
Speaker 1: or sadness or Yeah, yeah, that is that is true.
Speaker 1: You're always trying to figure out how can I essentially
Speaker 1: share the same stuff in a way that's more resonant
Speaker 1: or you know, like I feel an anecdote, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel did something just happened? If?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it came back.
Speaker 1: Though, I feel like I'm like I'm the singer, not
Speaker 1: the message, you know, the conduit to the wisdom, not
Speaker 1: the wisdom all that philosophical shit. But I truly feel
Speaker 1: like that, like I'm the conduit to that which is
Speaker 1: great and truthful and empowering. You know, I didn't create
Speaker 1: any of this. I didn't invent any of this. All
Speaker 1: I do is try to figure out how I can
Speaker 1: you know, share it and sell it for one of
Speaker 1: a better word, you know, and you know, download it
Speaker 1: in a way that's digestible and maybe inspiring for people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I totally agree with that. I think
Speaker 3: about it as creating the conditions for learning. Like my
Speaker 3: role is to try and create the conditions for learning
Speaker 3: to happen, to try and create the conditions for someone
Speaker 3: to have an aharm moment, or for a light bulb
Speaker 3: to go off, or for them to open a door
Speaker 3: and turn on a light that they couldn't see. Otherwise,
Speaker 3: it's not for me to be the guru, the chosen
Speaker 3: one that has to have all the answers and has
Speaker 3: to be the one speaking the entire time. Actually, what
Speaker 3: I'm here to do is create the conditions.
Speaker 4: For us to learn.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think very.
Speaker 4: Often doesn't come from me.
Speaker 3: It might come from the conversation you had with the
Speaker 3: person next to you in the breakout.
Speaker 4: If it was a workshop with a breakout, you know, and.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh that thing Craig said, who I'd never
Speaker 3: met before on my table really helped me unlock this thing.
Speaker 4: I'm like, cool, it doesn't have to come from me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you ever gone in with a
Speaker 1: bit of a plan or an idea of what you're
Speaker 1: going to do and realized maybe not that it was
Speaker 1: not landing, or maybe you did realize that, or maybe
Speaker 1: you realized, oh, this is not the group, this is
Speaker 1: not the vibe that I thought, This is not what
Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be. So we're going
Speaker 1: to do a slight left turn here. Have you done that?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: I mean, probably too many times to count, right right.
Speaker 3: The what I think about a lot is when I
Speaker 3: was briefed on this commercial, big commercial team of one
Speaker 3: hundred commercial directors of this big organization, and the briefing was,
Speaker 3: you know, they're commercial, so they're very confident, they're very outspoken,
Speaker 3: they will be not backwards in coming forward. So I'm okay,
Speaker 3: so we're going to have a super enthusiastic group. So
Speaker 3: five minutes se and I'm going to ask the audience
Speaker 3: a question and just see based on what they say,
Speaker 3: which story I might tell next, you know, slight, a
Speaker 3: slight version of choose your own adventure with a pretty
Speaker 3: clear idea where I want to go anyway. And so
Speaker 3: I said to them, like, I don't know what's the
Speaker 3: current challenge you have right now and your roles leader
Speaker 3: something like that.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: And when I say there were crickets, I mean one
Speaker 3: hundred people just sat in total silence, including the event organizer,
Speaker 3: who knew I was going to ask this question.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, at least you could ask me. Come on, Yes, yes,
Speaker 4: I have this out.
Speaker 3: Of body experience, which is I think you're bombing right now.
Speaker 3: I think this is bombing. You have totally misread this
Speaker 3: entire situation. And ironically, the topic was to communicate more
Speaker 3: effectively as a leader, So there was like this out
Speaker 3: of body better experience of I'm trying to help them
Speaker 3: be better communicators. Clearly I'm not nailing it because they're
Speaker 3: not even responding to what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Did you go by the way, don't do this, by
Speaker 1: the way, avoid this.
Speaker 3: I made some poor joke about I don't know, maybe
Speaker 3: they just had lunch or something, and I made some
Speaker 3: joke about, you know, everyone's still digesting the tuna sandwiches
Speaker 3: or something. And so about five minutes later, I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm I'm going to try something different, and I said,
Speaker 3: now this time, I want you to turn to the
Speaker 3: person next to you and say, this is something I'm
Speaker 3: grappling with in my communication as a leader.
Speaker 4: And all of a sudden, they lit up and they
Speaker 4: couldn't stop talking.
Speaker 3: And I got that experience of they're they're so confident
Speaker 3: and over enthusiastic because they're commercial directors. And it was
Speaker 3: the change in who you have to speak in front of,
Speaker 3: and that there was a more specific audience rather than
Speaker 3: yell out in front of one hundred of your peers,
Speaker 3: by the way, ninety nine of whom you might not
Speaker 3: even know.
Speaker 4: Yes, So it was like.
Speaker 3: There's one hundred people that are confident, but actually maybe
Speaker 3: they don't know each other, and so they're not going
Speaker 3: to yell out in front of a hundred people, but
Speaker 3: if you give them the task of talking to the
Speaker 3: person next to them. And so I think I salvaged
Speaker 3: it a little bit. But there was a moment there
Speaker 3: where I was like, what I've misread the room here.
Speaker 3: This is is not going well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's oh, I mean yeah, I've had a version
Speaker 1: of that. But it's funny. You often see people who
Speaker 1: are new to the stage and they'll walk up and.
Speaker 5: Haw's everyone going, people just like a fucking it's like
Speaker 5: a library, great morning hah.
Speaker 1: And people are like, oh god, I'm like, oh, don't
Speaker 1: don't because no one, especially if you're right, especially if
Speaker 1: it's say a conference where it's like an industry conference
Speaker 1: where there are a bunch of strangers who don't all
Speaker 1: work together in the room. So you've got thirty different companies,
Speaker 1: you might have three people from each company, and you've
Speaker 1: got one hundred people or so, and yeah, you just
Speaker 1: ask these questions that don't really demand an answer. So
Speaker 1: that is, yeah, like my go to if I'm stuck,
Speaker 1: which I've shared ten times, free to use it, everyone is,
Speaker 1: I might say, because we're going to talk about the
Speaker 1: mind and thinking in human behavior, and you know, blah,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah, and I won't even go I'm Craig.
Speaker 1: This has a bit of my backstory. I don't do anything.
Speaker 1: I go, all right, put up your hand if you're
Speaker 1: an overthinker. And everyone goes, oh fuck, I'm an overthinker,
Speaker 1: and all the handscarp. I go, how's that working? How's
Speaker 1: that going for you? And they all laugh, how's that
Speaker 1: working out?
Speaker 4: That's good? That's good.
Speaker 1: I go, that has the mayhem in your scom going?
Speaker 1: What is that about? And then I'll walk up someone.
Speaker 1: I go, all right, be brave and bold. What do
Speaker 1: you overthink and are? Usually? You know it'd be everything. Okay,
Speaker 1: give me one thing on the everything list. I go
Speaker 1: and they'll go, you know, like being embarrassed or failing
Speaker 1: or whatever it is right, and I go, anyone else,
Speaker 1: anyone else in that group in me? I don't want
Speaker 1: to fail. I don't want to look silly. I don't
Speaker 1: want to be embarrassed. I don't put you know, I go,
Speaker 1: all right, well that's a very big club. So you
Speaker 1: know you're not a weirder. In fact, you're more common
Speaker 1: than weird, you know. And then then we've got a
Speaker 1: conversation then we've got interaction. Then we've got participation. Now
Speaker 1: I'm not on a Now I'm not a bloke on
Speaker 1: a stage talking to one hundred trees in a room. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know it's that that can I What can I
Speaker 1: ask that almost is impossible to not participate in? Yeah?
Speaker 3: How do I create connection? It's like connection over content.
Speaker 3: It's not that I need to get up and deliver
Speaker 3: all this content to you. It's I'm going to get
Speaker 3: up and connect with you immediately, and that is going
Speaker 3: to be the thing that we all remember in the
Speaker 3: experience that makes us feel something rather than jeeze.
Speaker 4: I had some good content, yes, And.
Speaker 1: Also like and I've had lots of resistance from news
Speaker 1: speakers that I've helped that are very smart, very knowledgeable,
Speaker 1: and in their area, way more knowledgeable than me. And
Speaker 1: when I say you need to be more of an
Speaker 1: edutainer than an educator, they're like what, And I go,
Speaker 1: if you are boring, if they do not en or you,
Speaker 1: if you can't tell a story, if you can't be
Speaker 1: a little bit amusing. You don't need to be hilarious
Speaker 1: or a stand up comic. But if your information and
Speaker 1: your data and your research is brilliant, but they are
Speaker 1: not engaged, they are not enjoying it. They don't enjoy you.
Speaker 1: They won't enjoy the experience. You're not getting any more work.
Speaker 1: So how well can you build connection and rapport and
Speaker 1: trust and respect, also sharing your ideas and your information
Speaker 1: and your knowledge. Do that, but also realize more important
Speaker 1: than your content is your capacity to engage a room
Speaker 1: of humans and read the room of humans in real
Speaker 1: time and then respond accordingly. Which sounds overwhelming, but you
Speaker 1: know you build on that because you go, oh, I
Speaker 1: did this last time. It didn't work. Well, I'm not
Speaker 1: fucking doing that again. When I ask that, it's like
Speaker 1: generally you know that gets a response.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they'll feel fine. You'll find the thing, the tool
Speaker 3: that you have that you get really good responses from,
Speaker 3: like your one, you know, like how many people are overthinkers.
Speaker 3: You'll find your version of that. Yes, and you can
Speaker 3: use that, you know, repeatedly. Just because you don't have
Speaker 3: a script doesn't mean you know, in my context, I
Speaker 3: don't always have a scripture doesn't mean I don't tell
Speaker 3: the same stories or use the same ideas. Yes, I
Speaker 3: mean they don't come out the same every time. Because
Speaker 3: it's not scripted, but the punchline should still be the same.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I start to introduce the idea of metaperception,
Speaker 1: you know, my research, which is understanding what it's like
Speaker 1: being around you. You know, you can go through this
Speaker 1: whole cognitive kind of explanation of you know, metacognition and
Speaker 1: theory of mind and metaperception and all of these constructs
Speaker 1: that live in the world of psychological research and analysis. Right,
Speaker 1: but it's boring, Like it's boring, and I can exp
Speaker 1: to in that context it's boring, but I will go
Speaker 1: rather than saying, hey, everybody, I've just spent six years
Speaker 1: researching this thing called meta let me unpack it with you.
Speaker 1: So get out your note pad and switch on and
Speaker 1: eyes to me, you know, like everyone's like, ah, fuck off, right,
Speaker 1: So I go, all right, put wrap your hand. If
Speaker 1: you've ever heard your voice on audio, like audio recording,
Speaker 1: And people go, oh, fah, that's the worst, and they
Speaker 1: and they all put up their hand reluctantly, and I go, now,
Speaker 1: put up your hand if you think you sound shit,
Speaker 1: that's good. I love that. And everyone laughs because to them,
Speaker 1: when they hear themselves, you know, on audio recording, they
Speaker 1: sound rubbish, so you know, and I go, well, here's
Speaker 1: the bad news. That's what you sound like for the
Speaker 1: rest of us all the time. You know, that whiny
Speaker 1: nasally thing that you got going on, that's all we hear.
Speaker 1: So when you hear yourself and you go, I don't
Speaker 1: sound anything like that. You sound exactly like that all
Speaker 1: of the time. All of the people who fucking hear you,
Speaker 1: So that what you've got going on in your head,
Speaker 1: we do not live in there. And I go, and
Speaker 1: then I unpack it. So this is the opening of
Speaker 1: the door to trying to understand what you are like
Speaker 1: for me, not in a good way or a bad
Speaker 1: way or a critical way, but just in an awareness way.
Speaker 1: You know, we go oh oh, and I go, this
Speaker 1: is why this stuff matters. You know, Like what if
Speaker 1: you're a coach and you're talking to your ten athletes
Speaker 1: on the basketball court and you think you're inspiring and
Speaker 1: directing and captivating them, and they all think you're a dickhead,
Speaker 1: but you don't know. You know, they all think you're
Speaker 1: they don't understand what you're talking about, or they're not inspired,
Speaker 1: or they're bored or they're intimidated. Well, even though that's
Speaker 1: not your intention. Obviously, it's certainly in your interest to
Speaker 1: understand their version of right now, because your version of
Speaker 1: right now is not theirs. And if you don't know that,
Speaker 1: you're going to create more problems and solutions. Nice, but
Speaker 1: you get there by opening that other Have you heard
Speaker 1: yourself on audio? This is like these stepping stone this
Speaker 1: is the oh yeah, a little bit of a story,
Speaker 1: a little few laughs, and then so this is how
Speaker 1: this relates to this other thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's such a I feel like there's a master
Speaker 3: class in like, yeah, take can you take your knowledge
Speaker 3: and wisdom? And undoubtedly everyone listening has a bunch of it,
Speaker 3: but can you actually distill it into something that is relatable,
Speaker 3: maybe humorous, that I can engage with, that I can
Speaker 3: wrap my head around, not just I mean it's kind
Speaker 3: it is kind of the in a meta way. Can
Speaker 3: you understand how you're coming across on stage in the
Speaker 3: same way that you understand how your voice sounds when
Speaker 3: you listen to a recording, Because if you sound professorial
Speaker 3: like a professor yea, and that's not what the audience
Speaker 3: calls for, you're pretty quickly going to lose them. So
Speaker 3: that it's not about knowledge dumping knowledge sharing. It's about
Speaker 3: can you translate that into something that is worth connecting
Speaker 3: with and over And I.
Speaker 1: Think a lot of people naturally have a better understanding
Speaker 1: and grasp of this than they think. Yes, but it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, so if if let's say Tiff wasn't a speaker,
Speaker 1: she was a boxer and a trainer, right, which is
Speaker 1: part of her background as well. But if she had
Speaker 1: to talk to a bunch of forty year old ladies
Speaker 1: about you know, beginning off in boxing or whatever, versus
Speaker 1: a bunch of forteen year old boys, right, it would
Speaker 1: be even though she's talking about the same thing, it's
Speaker 1: a very different energy and conversation. And you know, and
Speaker 1: nobody said to her, Hey, when you talk to the boys,
Speaker 1: don't talk like you did to the women, because that's
Speaker 1: self evident. So we do it anyway. We have an
Speaker 1: awareness anyway. But it's you know, it's like me knowing
Speaker 1: that the mil Jura vibe and energy and language is
Speaker 1: not going to work at A and Z in Melbourne.
Speaker 1: That's not the right approach or vibe. And just yes,
Speaker 1: we can share all the same ideas, but not in
Speaker 1: the same way.
Speaker 4: Totally.
Speaker 3: People speak to my son differently to how they speak
Speaker 3: to me, shocker, and like we do that, we do
Speaker 3: that subconsciously, so it's the same, it's the same skill.
Speaker 1: It's always good talking to you, mate, I love talking
Speaker 1: to you. How is that going.
Speaker 3: I've got a page of notes, which is great. I
Speaker 3: feel like I just got a masterclass, which is great.
Speaker 1: Well, we always learn from you too. I love that.
Speaker 1: I know, I know it's not yours, but I love
Speaker 1: the purple cow thing and tips blue apple thing. I
Speaker 1: love that. How do people connect with you?
Speaker 4: Oh human?
Speaker 3: Periscope dot com is the one stop shop for all things,
Speaker 3: all things Peach Sheppard podcast, blogs, all that jazz, emails, reach.
Speaker 1: Out, giddy ut butto cup. Have you got lots of
Speaker 1: corporate on at the moment?
Speaker 4: I do?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm in Sydney every other week at
Speaker 3: the moment, which is which is fun, which is good.
Speaker 3: And I've started doing a few a few local gigs
Speaker 3: up here too, with the with the Queensland Rugby League
Speaker 3: and the Great Barrier Refoundation and a few others. So
Speaker 3: a few local gigs and jumping on the plane plenty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well you're good at it. That's why you're in
Speaker 1: demand and and let me tell you, like there companies
Speaker 1: are spending less on the speakers, and so the fact
Speaker 1: that you are busier than ever is a sign. So
Speaker 1: go you and TIFFs on a way, TIFFs on TIFFs
Speaker 1: number number, I don't know whatever with a bullet. You're
Speaker 1: on the rise. In a year, you're going to be
Speaker 1: teaching me and Pete how to do this shit. I'm
Speaker 1: straight We're going to have a little bit of a workshop.
Speaker 1: She'll bring out the blue Apple and I'll be like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, the blue Apple.
Speaker 4: There it is again.
Speaker 1: And Tiff, good luck for your escapades in Queensland. That's
Speaker 1: coming up very soon, so we hope that goes great.
Speaker 1: Smash it, Tiff, all right, team love your guts is
Speaker 1: so yeah.