1 00:00:05,790 --> 00:00:08,130 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed business interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:08,220 --> 00:00:11,338 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. The private credit market has seen rapid growth in 3 00:00:11,340 --> 00:00:14,280 Sean Aylmer: recent years. According to the IMF, last year, the market 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:19,140 Sean Aylmer: topped $ 2. 1 trillion US. That's about three trillion Aussie 5 00:00:19,140 --> 00:00:23,160 Sean Aylmer: dollars globally in assets and committed capital. But what do 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,070 Sean Aylmer: deals in this space actually look like and how does 7 00:00:26,070 --> 00:00:30,150 Sean Aylmer: a private credit provider assess risk? All important, how does 8 00:00:30,150 --> 00:00:34,049 Sean Aylmer: it preserve investor capital? Remember, this is general information only 9 00:00:34,049 --> 00:00:37,140 Sean Aylmer: and you should seek professional advice before making investment decisions. Paul 10 00:00:37,170 --> 00:00:41,820 Sean Aylmer: Myliotis, the co- founder and managing director of Msquared Capital, 11 00:00:41,820 --> 00:00:44,220 Sean Aylmer: a great supporter of this podcast. Paul, welcome to Fear 12 00:00:44,220 --> 00:00:44,668 Sean Aylmer: and Greed. 13 00:00:44,970 --> 00:00:45,568 Paul Myliotis: Thank you, Sean. 14 00:00:46,229 --> 00:00:49,078 Sean Aylmer: Okay, first off the bat, tell me about Msquared Capital, 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:50,010 Sean Aylmer: Paul. What do you do? 16 00:00:50,370 --> 00:00:54,119 Paul Myliotis: So, Sean, Msquared Capital is a private credit provider. So 17 00:00:54,119 --> 00:00:57,570 Paul Myliotis: what we do is we qualify borrowing opportunities. So a 18 00:00:57,570 --> 00:01:00,840 Paul Myliotis: borrower will come to us for financing and then we'll 19 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,900 Paul Myliotis: match that borrowing opportunity with one of our three investment 20 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,259 Paul Myliotis: offerings depending on the risk of the asset or of 21 00:01:07,259 --> 00:01:07,770 Paul Myliotis: the borrowing. 22 00:01:08,340 --> 00:01:10,859 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So there's two sides to this. Let's talk about 23 00:01:10,859 --> 00:01:13,170 Sean Aylmer: the borrower first, and we'll talk about the funder next. 24 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,230 Sean Aylmer: The borrower. Typically, who is it coming asking for money? 25 00:01:16,740 --> 00:01:20,910 Paul Myliotis: So for us, there's different parts of the risk profile 26 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,240 Paul Myliotis: of private credit. So where we sit in the sphere 27 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,240 Paul Myliotis: of private credit is secured debt. So what that means 28 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,329 Paul Myliotis: in the secured debt space is all of our borrowers 29 00:01:30,330 --> 00:01:34,260 Paul Myliotis: must provide real estate security for us to take. 30 00:01:34,650 --> 00:01:34,740 Sean Aylmer: Mm- hmm. 31 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:36,630 Paul Myliotis: And where we sit is right in the middle of 32 00:01:36,630 --> 00:01:39,360 Paul Myliotis: the risk profile. So where we are really looking for the 33 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,629 Paul Myliotis: borrowers are just falling out of where the banks are 34 00:01:42,630 --> 00:01:45,000 Paul Myliotis: looking to lend. For a number of reasons they may 35 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,489 Paul Myliotis: come to us and not up the risk curve. So 36 00:01:47,490 --> 00:01:50,040 Paul Myliotis: we don't like borrowers that are what we say are 37 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,110 Paul Myliotis: a falling knife, there are a lot of problems around them. 38 00:01:52,110 --> 00:01:54,000 Paul Myliotis: We just want them to be just outside of what 39 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,110 Paul Myliotis: the banks are looking to do. 40 00:01:55,710 --> 00:01:59,280 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now we know that the banks have tightened criteria 41 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,069 Sean Aylmer: on lending over the past couple of years, and part 42 00:02:02,070 --> 00:02:05,879 Sean Aylmer: of that is Covid related plus other things. Is that 43 00:02:05,879 --> 00:02:08,430 Sean Aylmer: part of the reason why so many more people are 44 00:02:08,430 --> 00:02:09,600 Sean Aylmer: looking for private credit? 45 00:02:10,500 --> 00:02:13,710 Paul Myliotis: I think there's two sides to that question. I mean, 46 00:02:14,610 --> 00:02:17,189 Paul Myliotis: when the banks want to write business, they'll write business, 47 00:02:17,190 --> 00:02:20,190 Paul Myliotis: but at the moment what we are finding are people are coming 48 00:02:20,190 --> 00:02:21,780 Paul Myliotis: to us for a number of reasons. Number one is 49 00:02:21,780 --> 00:02:25,290 Paul Myliotis: speed. So at the moment the banks are slow when 50 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,380 Paul Myliotis: there's something that is a little bit complex. So speed 51 00:02:28,380 --> 00:02:32,488 Paul Myliotis: is one major aspect why private credit is really popular 52 00:02:32,490 --> 00:02:35,400 Paul Myliotis: at the moment. We can turn over a debt transaction 53 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,910 Paul Myliotis: in three to five days. The other major reason from 54 00:02:38,910 --> 00:02:42,388 Paul Myliotis: the borrowing perspective, and you mentioned it, Covid or otherwise, 55 00:02:43,020 --> 00:02:47,700 Paul Myliotis: banks look at historical aspects of a borrower situation. So 56 00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:48,389 Paul Myliotis: they might want your- 57 00:02:48,389 --> 00:02:48,390 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 58 00:02:48,390 --> 00:02:51,630 Paul Myliotis: ... tax returns for two years. So it's a historical 59 00:02:52,169 --> 00:02:56,639 Paul Myliotis: looking at a business. When we are versed in private 60 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:58,859 Paul Myliotis: debt, we can look at it from a period of 61 00:02:58,859 --> 00:03:01,470 Paul Myliotis: time of that particular borrower, which is now. So when 62 00:03:01,710 --> 00:03:04,500 Paul Myliotis: our business doubled at Covid and just after Covid, and the 63 00:03:04,500 --> 00:03:08,399 Paul Myliotis: reason was exactly that. The banks would look at how 64 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,520 Paul Myliotis: they traded during Covid and couldn't really see outside of that. 65 00:03:11,940 --> 00:03:12,150 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 66 00:03:12,210 --> 00:03:16,529 Paul Myliotis: Businesses were categorically smashed during Covid so things changed pretty 67 00:03:16,529 --> 00:03:18,540 Paul Myliotis: quickly when they got out of it. So when we 68 00:03:18,540 --> 00:03:20,190 Paul Myliotis: were able to see where they were at the period 69 00:03:20,190 --> 00:03:23,820 Paul Myliotis: of time, we really could assess that risk as manageable 70 00:03:24,210 --> 00:03:26,070 Paul Myliotis: and lend money to those particular borrowers. 71 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,440 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And then just finally on the borrowers, how much 72 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,180 Sean Aylmer: are they borrowing from you typically? 73 00:03:30,540 --> 00:03:34,380 Paul Myliotis: Borrowers typically borrow 65% of an asset value from us. 74 00:03:34,469 --> 00:03:36,750 Paul Myliotis: So if we've got an asset, let's say round numbers 75 00:03:36,750 --> 00:03:40,200 Paul Myliotis: for my mathematics is a $ 10 million house. Now, obviously $ 10 76 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,950 Paul Myliotis: million houses we don't see every day, we would lend 77 00:03:43,950 --> 00:03:46,830 Paul Myliotis: them six and a half million dollars against that particular 78 00:03:46,830 --> 00:03:49,799 Paul Myliotis: asset value at the top end. So for us and 79 00:03:49,799 --> 00:03:52,799 Paul Myliotis: our investors, it's very important to limit how much we 80 00:03:52,799 --> 00:03:56,040 Paul Myliotis: are lending against that asset. So in that particular instance, 81 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,460 Paul Myliotis: for our investors to lose money, that property price would 82 00:03:59,460 --> 00:04:03,330 Paul Myliotis: have to drop 35%. And where we are typically lending 83 00:04:03,330 --> 00:04:07,290 Paul Myliotis: in the eastern seaboard of Australia on existing residences, we 84 00:04:07,290 --> 00:04:08,940 Paul Myliotis: deem that risk definitely appropriate. 85 00:04:09,509 --> 00:04:11,220 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Paul. We'll be back in a minute. 86 00:04:17,670 --> 00:04:20,909 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Paul Myliotis, co- founder and 87 00:04:20,910 --> 00:04:25,950 Sean Aylmer: managing director of Msquared Capital. So let's flip to the funding 88 00:04:25,950 --> 00:04:29,549 Sean Aylmer: side. You said there are three funds. These are private 89 00:04:29,549 --> 00:04:32,190 Sean Aylmer: investors putting money into Msquared, is that how it works? 90 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,400 Paul Myliotis: We get flows of capital from a number of sources. 91 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,428 Paul Myliotis: So when we started the business, we figured out pretty 92 00:04:38,428 --> 00:04:41,819 Paul Myliotis: quickly that no investor is the same and different investors 93 00:04:41,820 --> 00:04:45,000 Paul Myliotis: want different risk profiles and different things. So we've got 94 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,699 Paul Myliotis: three different funds. The first fund we have is a 95 00:04:47,699 --> 00:04:51,270 Paul Myliotis: single asset fund. So that single asset fund, people will 96 00:04:51,270 --> 00:04:55,950 Paul Myliotis: lend into a specific investment. It is quarantined for that 97 00:04:55,950 --> 00:04:59,010 Paul Myliotis: particular investment, and you can pick and choose whether you 98 00:04:59,010 --> 00:05:02,669 Paul Myliotis: want to participate in that borrowing opportunity. A lot of 99 00:05:02,670 --> 00:05:06,509 Paul Myliotis: our investors like that style investment, but a lot of 100 00:05:06,540 --> 00:05:10,290 Paul Myliotis: people wanted it to be secured over a range of assets. 101 00:05:10,290 --> 00:05:13,440 Paul Myliotis: So we've got two other investment vehicles which are pooled 102 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,678 Paul Myliotis: funds or open- ended funds where there's investment over a 103 00:05:16,678 --> 00:05:19,320 Paul Myliotis: number of assets and we've got two different funds. The 104 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,738 Paul Myliotis: first one is the mortgage income fund, which is on 105 00:05:22,740 --> 00:05:26,880 Paul Myliotis: the lower risk side of lending. So in that particular 106 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:31,229 Paul Myliotis: fund, it's currently at a 55% gear transaction. But importantly, 107 00:05:31,380 --> 00:05:33,240 Paul Myliotis: it's what's in that fund that we do that is 108 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,080 Paul Myliotis: important to understand. We will not do any second mortgages 109 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,349 Paul Myliotis: in that fund. So first mortgages only. We will not lend 110 00:05:40,350 --> 00:05:43,440 Paul Myliotis: land at all. No construction, and we won't even lend 111 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,730 Paul Myliotis: against any regional property in that particular fund. And that's 112 00:05:47,730 --> 00:05:52,650 Paul Myliotis: returning 8% net to our investors paid monthly. The third 113 00:05:52,740 --> 00:05:55,409 Paul Myliotis: investment vehicle that we have is the high- yield fund, 114 00:05:55,799 --> 00:05:58,859 Paul Myliotis: and that goes up the risk curve slightly. We've got 115 00:05:58,889 --> 00:06:02,520 Paul Myliotis: up to 20% currently we've got on second mortgages. We've 116 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,479 Paul Myliotis: got 2% of that particular fund in construction, and we're tapping 117 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,820 Paul Myliotis: that out and a small amount of land at about 118 00:06:08,820 --> 00:06:11,820 Paul Myliotis: 12%. And that's allowed us to get a return to 119 00:06:11,820 --> 00:06:16,530 Paul Myliotis: our investors last month of 10. 35% per annum, paid monthly again. 120 00:06:17,369 --> 00:06:21,300 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so they're the two sides to it. I presume 121 00:06:21,330 --> 00:06:23,849 Sean Aylmer: the structure of the deal, I mean I don't want 122 00:06:23,850 --> 00:06:25,440 Sean Aylmer: to get into the nuts and bolts of the structure 123 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,320 Sean Aylmer: of a deal, but broadly it's sort of similar as 124 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,410 Sean Aylmer: going to a bank in terms of security against the 125 00:06:31,410 --> 00:06:35,669 Sean Aylmer: property. How do you as an organization, Msquared Capital, how 126 00:06:35,670 --> 00:06:39,089 Sean Aylmer: do you do your due diligence? Because I'm sure it's more 127 00:06:39,089 --> 00:06:40,680 Sean Aylmer: than just saying, hey, what's your house worth? 128 00:06:41,130 --> 00:06:43,350 Paul Myliotis: It is. Collateral's a very important aspect of it. So 129 00:06:43,350 --> 00:06:46,889 Paul Myliotis: let's make no mistake that in the unlikely event you've 130 00:06:46,889 --> 00:06:48,539 Paul Myliotis: got to recover your money you do have to sell 131 00:06:48,540 --> 00:06:51,990 Paul Myliotis: that property, but that's only one aspect. Over the years, 132 00:06:51,990 --> 00:06:54,990 Paul Myliotis: we have curated a process. Now, we've returned 100% of 133 00:06:54,990 --> 00:06:57,839 Paul Myliotis: investor capital and interest for our entirety of our fund, 134 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,540 Paul Myliotis: and there's a good reason for that. The due diligence 135 00:07:00,540 --> 00:07:04,859 Paul Myliotis: process first starts with governance. So we've got a credit 136 00:07:04,860 --> 00:07:09,000 Paul Myliotis: committee with two executive and two non- executive signatories on 137 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,479 Paul Myliotis: that credit committee. And unless that's a unanimous support of 138 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,300 Paul Myliotis: all four members of that committee, the investors will not 139 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:17,790 Paul Myliotis: see that deal. It'll be declined from an Msquared perspective. 140 00:07:17,790 --> 00:07:21,390 Paul Myliotis: So governance is the first thing that is extremely important. 141 00:07:21,690 --> 00:07:21,779 Sean Aylmer: Mm- hmm. 142 00:07:22,110 --> 00:07:24,809 Paul Myliotis: The second part is, well, yeah, collateral we've talked about, 143 00:07:24,809 --> 00:07:27,000 Paul Myliotis: but there's other aspects that we look at at private credit. 144 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,730 Paul Myliotis: The number one aspect that we have is how are 145 00:07:29,730 --> 00:07:32,460 Paul Myliotis: you going to get the debt repaid? How are our 146 00:07:32,460 --> 00:07:34,710 Paul Myliotis: investors going to get their money back? And there must 147 00:07:34,710 --> 00:07:39,690 Paul Myliotis: be a defined exit to that. But competence, does the 148 00:07:39,690 --> 00:07:42,030 Paul Myliotis: particular borrower have the competence of what they're saying they're 149 00:07:42,030 --> 00:07:44,429 Paul Myliotis: going to do? Do they have the cash flow to 150 00:07:44,429 --> 00:07:47,399 Paul Myliotis: actually make our interest payments so our investors get paid 151 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,570 Paul Myliotis: monthly? Do they have the character, which is an extremely 152 00:07:51,570 --> 00:07:54,360 Paul Myliotis: important part. The due diligence of what we do is 153 00:07:54,690 --> 00:07:58,740 Paul Myliotis: centric on character. How's their credit score? Have they defaulted 154 00:07:58,740 --> 00:08:02,160 Paul Myliotis: at any mortgages before? If we're refinancing something, have they 155 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,949 Paul Myliotis: missed any payments? Is there a reason why they missed 156 00:08:04,949 --> 00:08:08,040 Paul Myliotis: payments? Those are the type of things. So unless they 157 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,190 Paul Myliotis: hit all those five aspects of what we've mentioned the 158 00:08:11,190 --> 00:08:13,950 Paul Myliotis: character, the capacity to repay, the cash flow to make 159 00:08:13,950 --> 00:08:18,150 Paul Myliotis: our repayments, the competence and the collateral being acceptable security 160 00:08:18,150 --> 00:08:19,739 Paul Myliotis: for us, then we won't do the deal. 161 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:23,879 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So every investment is, and I'm thinking from a 162 00:08:23,879 --> 00:08:28,170 Sean Aylmer: funding side here, there's a risk to it. And I 163 00:08:28,170 --> 00:08:31,260 Sean Aylmer: mean, the key risk is that the borrower doesn't repay, 164 00:08:31,350 --> 00:08:33,838 Sean Aylmer: and I suppose where the opportunities are. So in a 165 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,620 Sean Aylmer: nutshell, the risks and opportunities of going with Msquared Capital 166 00:08:37,620 --> 00:08:40,979 Sean Aylmer: on either side of the deal in terms of accessing 167 00:08:40,980 --> 00:08:43,710 Sean Aylmer: private credit or in terms of writing funds for private credit. 168 00:08:44,220 --> 00:08:47,580 Paul Myliotis: Yeah, look, the risks in private credit are great. Different 169 00:08:47,580 --> 00:08:50,939 Paul Myliotis: funds do different things. I'll give you an example, Sean. 170 00:08:50,940 --> 00:08:54,120 Paul Myliotis: We won't do any property in our business that has 171 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,650 Paul Myliotis: a valuation that's based on going concern value. For example, 172 00:08:58,650 --> 00:09:00,780 Paul Myliotis: a pub. Now, I'm not saying that if you lend 173 00:09:00,780 --> 00:09:02,490 Paul Myliotis: to a pub, you're going to do your dough, but 174 00:09:02,490 --> 00:09:04,590 Paul Myliotis: what I'm saying is for the investors to understand the 175 00:09:04,590 --> 00:09:08,370 Paul Myliotis: risks of investing in that particular asset class, you really 176 00:09:08,370 --> 00:09:11,759 Paul Myliotis: need to understand it. So, when we're deeming the risks 177 00:09:11,759 --> 00:09:15,150 Paul Myliotis: of the economy being greater now, you've got headwinds on 178 00:09:15,330 --> 00:09:18,299 Paul Myliotis: interest rates and capacity to repay in their own capacities, 179 00:09:18,750 --> 00:09:21,958 Paul Myliotis: we find that the turnover of the pubs will invariably 180 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,500 Paul Myliotis: go down. So, in that instance, the valuations must go 181 00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:28,618 Paul Myliotis: down. So, when you're looking at risk of lending, you 182 00:09:28,620 --> 00:09:31,409 Paul Myliotis: need to understand what's under the bonnet and make your 183 00:09:31,410 --> 00:09:35,370 Paul Myliotis: own assessment as an investor, whether that's appropriate. Now, when 184 00:09:35,458 --> 00:09:38,280 Paul Myliotis: Covid came in, I'll give you another example, there was 185 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,309 Paul Myliotis: a huge influx of people wanting debt in regional areas,- 186 00:09:41,490 --> 00:09:41,491 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 187 00:09:41,491 --> 00:09:44,880 Paul Myliotis: ... holiday houses and the like. Now, we have an 188 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,790 Paul Myliotis: issue with regional areas not because we don't like holidaying 189 00:09:47,790 --> 00:09:50,670 Paul Myliotis: there, but when things turned pear- shaped in an economy, 190 00:09:51,150 --> 00:09:53,520 Paul Myliotis: what we have found in our history is that the 191 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,640 Paul Myliotis: first thing that goes are regional properties. People will sell 192 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,370 Paul Myliotis: them before they sell their houses. And when there's a 193 00:09:59,940 --> 00:10:02,670 Paul Myliotis: number of properties on the market at the moment, what 194 00:10:02,670 --> 00:10:04,649 Paul Myliotis: happens to those values? They go down. So if you 195 00:10:04,650 --> 00:10:07,440 Paul Myliotis: look in Melbourne, for example, in the areas which are 196 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,708 Paul Myliotis: great to live in and holiday in, your Sorrentos, your 197 00:10:11,250 --> 00:10:13,559 Paul Myliotis: Mornington Peninsulas, what we're finding now is a lot of 198 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,468 Paul Myliotis: people are offloading those properties. There's a lot more on 199 00:10:16,470 --> 00:10:18,420 Paul Myliotis: the market and there's a lot more time on the 200 00:10:18,420 --> 00:10:22,500 Paul Myliotis: market to get those properties away. So if investors, for 201 00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:25,769 Paul Myliotis: argument's sake, are on a fund that these people need 202 00:10:25,770 --> 00:10:27,929 Paul Myliotis: to get rid of those assets so they can't pay 203 00:10:27,929 --> 00:10:30,600 Paul Myliotis: their interest, and people are living off that interest they're 204 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,179 Paul Myliotis: receiving from private credit, that could be an issue and 205 00:10:33,179 --> 00:10:35,699 Paul Myliotis: a risk for them. So the risks on what's under 206 00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:39,480 Paul Myliotis: the bonnet for investors, I think, and understanding what's under 207 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,480 Paul Myliotis: that bonnet is very important. But there are also huge 208 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,320 Paul Myliotis: opportunities in our space. We've had an influx of capital 209 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,319 Paul Myliotis: coming from self- managed super funds for argument's sake, where 210 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,750 Paul Myliotis: they would be holding cash in their self- managed super. 211 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,260 Paul Myliotis: They understand the risks of private credit. They wanted to 212 00:10:55,260 --> 00:10:58,949 Paul Myliotis: increase their return that they were getting, and part of 213 00:10:58,950 --> 00:11:02,009 Paul Myliotis: their allocations have been to private credit because private credit 214 00:11:02,009 --> 00:11:04,649 Paul Myliotis: are paid monthly. They understand the risk of what's under 215 00:11:04,650 --> 00:11:07,588 Paul Myliotis: the bonnet being the security of property, and that's worked 216 00:11:07,590 --> 00:11:08,100 Paul Myliotis: really well. 217 00:11:08,790 --> 00:11:10,650 Sean Aylmer: And at the end of the day, your returns have 218 00:11:10,650 --> 00:11:12,300 Sean Aylmer: been pretty good. 219 00:11:12,929 --> 00:11:15,000 Paul Myliotis: Well, yeah, if you're getting term deposits of your four 220 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,290 Paul Myliotis: and four and a half, if you can get away 221 00:11:16,290 --> 00:11:19,320 Paul Myliotis: with them, depending on how much you're putting in, and 222 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,419 Paul Myliotis: we are returning on the lowest risk of our funds, 223 00:11:21,420 --> 00:11:25,260 Paul Myliotis: 8% net paid monthly, which is important. We have had 224 00:11:25,260 --> 00:11:28,200 Paul Myliotis: a good flow from that part of the market. 225 00:11:28,740 --> 00:11:30,450 Sean Aylmer: Paul, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 226 00:11:30,750 --> 00:11:31,228 Paul Myliotis: Thank you, Sean. 227 00:11:31,830 --> 00:11:35,010 Sean Aylmer: That was Paul Myliotis, co- founder and managing director of 228 00:11:35,010 --> 00:11:38,280 Sean Aylmer: Msquared Capital, a great supporter of this podcast. This is 229 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,519 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Greed business interview. Remember, this is general information 230 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,780 Sean Aylmer: only. You should always seek professional advice before making investment decisions. Join 231 00:11:45,780 --> 00:11:47,730 Sean Aylmer: us every morning for the full episode of Fear and 232 00:11:47,730 --> 00:11:50,130 Sean Aylmer: Greed. A daily business news for people who make their 233 00:11:50,130 --> 00:11:52,800 Sean Aylmer: own decisions. I'm Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.