1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed Sunday feature. Oh Michael Thompson, 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: Considering yesterday was the AFL Grand Final between the Sydney 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Swans and Brisbane Lyons, one option only one option for 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: this week's Sunday feature really stood out. Paul Ruse had 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: a foot in both camps yesterday. After all, he played 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: eighty seven games for the Swans coached them for the 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: premiership in two thousand and five, but he played two 8 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty nine matches for the Lions when they 9 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: were still at Fitzroy, with two stints as captain. So 10 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: this interview today is absolutely perfect because back in twenty 11 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: twenty one, Fear and Greed's Adam Lang spoke with Paul 12 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: Ruse about culture, about what makes a winning team, culture 13 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: and how the discipline of sports, the accountability of sport 14 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: can translate to the corporate world. It is a great 15 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: interview from June twenty twenty one, A very topical interview 16 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: from June twenty twenty one. I hope you enjoy it. 17 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Adam Lang. 18 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: If you didn't hear last Sunday's feature, then I'd definitely 19 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 2: recommend going back and having a listen. I spoke to 20 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 2: Jered Murphy, the co founder of Performance by Design, about 21 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 2: business coaching. We looked at some of the blind spots 22 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: of corporate leaders, the benefits of having an outsider call 23 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 2: them out, and some tips for changing a company's culture. 24 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 2: But one of the main points that Jared made was 25 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: about the similarities and the differences between the business world 26 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: and a sporting team, everything from the need to keep 27 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 2: reviewing performance to the importance of developing younger talent. And 28 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 2: it's no wonder that Jared seems so familiar with the 29 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: DNA of elite sporting teams. He's worked with plenty of them. 30 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 2: But it also helps that the co founder of Performance 31 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: by Design is none other than AFL legend Paul Ruse. 32 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: I'm delighted to say that Paul is our guest today 33 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: on Fear and Greed. Paul, welcome to Fear. 34 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 3: And Greed here. Thanks for having me. 35 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: It's a pleasure, real pleasure to have you here. Now, 36 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: for the uninitiated, what is the Blood's culture? 37 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe a little bit of history behind it before 38 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 3: we go into what it was. I remember it was 39 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 3: funny when I was still playing, and then I was 40 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 3: assistant coach. I remember Richard Collins, that chairman of the time, 41 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 3: got a bit frustrated because he sort of talked about 42 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 3: a cause and he sort of said to me and 43 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 3: the players and coaches, we don't seem to have a cause. 44 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 3: And I never really completely understood what he meant by that, 45 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 3: you know. And then I got into coaching, and I 46 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 3: drew on the background at Fitzroy and Sydney and realized 47 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 3: that the players really need to drive the culture. And 48 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 3: then we started the cultural transformation. And then I sort 49 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: of realized it can't be manufactured. You've actually got to 50 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 3: stand for something, so call it your purpose or your 51 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 3: mission or whatever it was. And as we were going 52 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,399 Speaker 3: through our behaviors and our values at the Sydney Swans, 53 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 3: it started to organically formulate. And one of the players, 54 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 3: he James, his father played for the South Melbourne and 55 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 3: he then sort of said, what are we refer to 56 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 3: the past as the Bloods? And we connected and it 57 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 3: really gave us a purpose and identity and that was 58 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: sort of the Bloods itself. But more importantly, what underpinned 59 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 3: it is the way we were behaved and the way 60 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 3: we rewarded and challenged each other. That was really what 61 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 3: underpinned the Blood's culture of the Sydney Swans. 62 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: And the heritage that you speak of there, Paul. Much 63 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 2: like a company, but a team, does the heritage matter 64 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 2: to the present players? 65 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 3: It did once we explained it to them, And I 66 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 3: think probably the biggest mistakes people make is just assuming 67 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 3: people know it or don't telling them about it all, 68 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 3: or it might be sort of folklore or whatever it was. 69 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 3: But I think it really resonated when we went through 70 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 3: our values and when we went through our behaviors, and 71 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 3: then we sort of started to talk about what we 72 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 3: wanted to be as a footy club. And then, as 73 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 3: I said, it has to happen organically, and if I 74 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 3: use a business term, I think the sooner you can 75 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 3: do it, the better because typically a lot of yeah, 76 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 3: a lot of smaller business come out of families or 77 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 3: two mates coming together, and they do have a bit 78 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 3: of a heritage, they have a natural progression. You know, 79 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 3: they might be too high school mates that work together. 80 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 3: They might be a family paint company or whatever is. 81 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 3: But my point is the sooner you actually identify what 82 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: you stand for the better, And I think what happens 83 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 3: is businesses leave it far too long to sort of 84 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 3: capture those perhaps natural tendencies, and then by the time 85 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 3: we do it, we actually forget what we stand for. 86 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 3: And then we've sort of got to bs each other 87 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 3: and we've got to pretend that it's something that potentially 88 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 3: it may not be what you're telling your staff. 89 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 2: That it is okay, so best to articulate it. 90 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 3: Then I'm sure, yeah, one of percent, the sooner you 91 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 3: can articulate it. And again, a lot of companies come 92 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 3: off the back of something really significant, don't they. I mean, 93 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 3: you've been involved in the corporate world for a long 94 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 3: period of time, but I'm not sure we really capture 95 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 3: the essence of it when we should capture it. And 96 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 3: then by the time we tried too and what we 97 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 3: did with the Bloods, if I take that as a 98 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 3: specific example, we then reconnect it. We did. The boys 99 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 3: did a really cool induction video and they went back 100 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 3: over got some old captains of the club and they 101 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 3: did a video and they talked about when they first 102 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 3: arrived in Sydney. And we've really reconnected with our past players. 103 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 3: So there's a real effort to reconnect to the past. 104 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 3: Without laboring in the past, because that's the other problem. 105 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 3: You want to keep on moving forward. But I think 106 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: what we did at Sydney is we've got a really 107 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 3: really good balance between what we stood for as a 108 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 3: football club over one hundred odd years, but where we 109 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 3: wanted to get to as well as a footy club 110 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 3: over the next one hundred years. 111 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: So, Paul, you've seen a lot from the inside. Dare 112 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 2: I say, And not to sort of name any clubs 113 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 2: or what you've seen, but when you come across something 114 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: that you feel or acts like a toxic team culture, 115 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 2: what does it look like? 116 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:59,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, good question. It sort of looks like that it's 117 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 3: been eating a way out. Now. The reason I mean 118 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 3: that it doesn't fall off a cliff, so you don't 119 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 3: actually sort of see it and go oh bang. One 120 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 3: day they look really good. The next day they don't 121 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 3: look good. So you almost need to follow a team 122 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 3: over a period of time because you sort of start 123 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 3: with a base of trust. Typically if you start with 124 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 3: a new coach, new captain, new players, et cetera, et cetera. 125 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 3: What I see, I guess is another way look at it. 126 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 3: I look at the way they play week in week out, 127 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 3: and not over a three week period, but over a one, two, three, 128 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 3: four year period, and then you can start to assess 129 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 3: are there behaviors on the field really really consistent? Are 130 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 3: they playing for each other? I'm really encouraged when I'm 131 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 3: doing my workshops with corporates too. Autam Even if you 132 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 3: don't follow sport, it's a really good helicopter view of 133 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 3: what business should look like. Does everyone know their roles? 134 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 3: Does everyone play their roles? Do people challenge and reward 135 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 3: on the field as well well done? We don't do that. 136 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: So it's a really good way to look at your 137 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 3: company through the eyes of a sporting organization. So it 138 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 3: just gets a roaded to road it over time and 139 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 3: then typically probably the best example is when teams play 140 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 3: really well one week and teams play really poorly the 141 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 3: next week because they just haven't embedded their habits over 142 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 3: a period of time. 143 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: Just drilling into that a little bit, do you think 144 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: that one person with a bad attitude is enough to 145 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: derail the whole team? 146 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 3: Look it depending on where they sit in the organization. Absolutely, 147 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 3: there's no cause, you know, the higher up the all 148 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 3: chart they are, and in the footy club, if it's 149 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,559 Speaker 3: the coach, you've got very little chance. I talk about 150 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 3: talent based teams and behavioral based team So a talent 151 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 3: based team can still win. So let's examine your question 152 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 3: for a minute. So if we've got an enormous amount 153 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 3: of talent in an organization and sporting team, and we've 154 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 3: got two or three really toxic leaders, we're going to 155 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 3: get away with it for a while because our talent 156 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 3: is so extreme. But as soon as that talent leaves 157 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 3: or something, oh, it's papering over the cracks, we will 158 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 3: plumme it off the cliff. There's no question about that. 159 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 3: A behavioral based team will weed out that toxic culture, 160 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 3: weed out that toxic talent, if you like. But again, 161 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 3: the higher up the org chart, the more difficult is 162 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 3: to do. And that's really the most critical thing in 163 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 3: the corporate world or the sporting world. If it's a 164 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 3: CEO or a coach, it's really really difficult to change. 165 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 2: So let's look at the more inspirational examples rather than 166 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: the toxic side. A lot of the traits that we 167 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 2: see shown by elite sports people can also make them 168 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 2: good at business. What are the skills that you see 169 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 2: as transferable from the sporting field to professional business careers. 170 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're one hundred percent right. I think they're really 171 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 3: sort of simple concepts. Good sporting people understand what actually 172 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 3: a team is. That sounds really simple. But the number 173 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 3: of times we would have stopped the workshop and I've 174 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 3: said to the exec team do you really see yourselves 175 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 3: as a team, and you can see them starting to 176 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 3: think and go, Actually, that's a great question. I don't 177 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 3: think we've even really addressed that. So immediately a sports 178 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 3: person understands the value of his teammates and hands some 179 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 3: of the responsibility over to his teammates really important. The discipline. 180 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 3: Discipline is another thing. Starting meetings on time, arriving to 181 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 3: work on time, replying to emails, replying to phone calls. 182 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 3: Good football players are really really disciplined, which is really important. 183 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 3: Understanding your role if I do my role really well, 184 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 3: and I'm going to trust Paul to do his role, 185 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 3: trust Adam to do his role. So there's a number 186 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 3: of really simple things that translate both from a sporting 187 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 3: point of view into a business point of view. And 188 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,239 Speaker 3: one hundred percent, if you've got a really strong football 189 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 3: or netball or whatever team background, it one percent translates 190 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 3: into the corporate world. 191 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 2: I saw a talk by Brisbane Lyons Michael Voss speaking 192 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: and he mentioned that their code similar themes to what 193 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: you're describing now, Paul, were. Their code was really three 194 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 2: simple phrases. It was know your role, except your role, 195 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 2: perform your role and it was a great sort of 196 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 2: distillation of the code and it worked for them. But 197 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 2: I think it goes to that point of what you're 198 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 2: talking about, which is it's not just your role as 199 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 2: a team, it's the bits in between. It's the trust 200 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: you have in one another. 201 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 3: Is that right, Yeah, numbers and what develops trust it 202 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 3: is that ability to say, well, this is what I'm 203 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 3: going to do and I can do this. I know 204 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 3: I can do this role really really well. And BOSSI 205 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 3: for those that don't know, they won one, two three, 206 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 3: so they were triple premiership team that had enormous amount 207 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 3: of talent. But he's absolutely right. Knowing that football team, 208 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 3: they all were prepared to play their role. And I 209 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 3: say this as well, it's leaving your egos in the locker. Now. 210 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 3: Part of the problem not only for exec teams but 211 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 3: for footing clubs at times is when I get to 212 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 3: a management role, I have to get out of the 213 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 3: business in a sense. But I'm really comfortable gotting the ice, 214 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 3: crossing the t's. But if I keep doing that, what 215 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 3: do you think that happens? The person that's supposed to 216 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 3: be doing that role stops doing that role because they say, well, 217 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 3: Paul's going to do it anyway. Okay. So there's that's 218 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 3: a roading trust, whereas in a footy club analogy, the 219 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 3: same thing. If I play my role, I trust someone 220 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 3: else to play my role. That builds trust. So as 221 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 3: we get higher up the org chart, we need to 222 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 3: be empowering our staff and that's probably one of the 223 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 3: biggest things that Murph and I see all the time. 224 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 3: You know, I'm busy. I'm busy. I'm busy, And then 225 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 3: when we delve into what busy is, Yeah, but I 226 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 3: don't really trust that person, so I'm doing their job. Well, 227 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 3: hang on, if you're doing their job, eventually, what are 228 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 3: they going to say, Well, I'm not going to do 229 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 3: my job. See the way it works, So then that 230 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 3: person that's supposed to be doing the job stops doing 231 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 3: the job. The person that's not supposed to be doing 232 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 3: the job, that's managing the team is doing everyone else's job, 233 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 3: so the trust is eroded really really quickly. Stay with me. 234 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: Paul will be back in a minute. My guest this 235 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 2: morning is Paul ruz Afl legend and co founder of 236 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 2: Performance by Design. I guess, just focusing in on bringing 237 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 2: new people in or when you start working with a company, 238 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 2: are you seeing levels of trust in really different states? 239 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 2: So some teams have got it really downpat some people, 240 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 2: to your point, aren't really a team whatsoever. 241 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 3: But when you. 242 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 2: Start bringing people into that environment as new inductees, what 243 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 2: do you see from them as they're coming in to 244 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 2: work with you and Performance by Design? 245 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 3: I think the biggest thing that I notice is the 246 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 3: ones that see themselves as a team have the best relationships. 247 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 3: Now it's the chicken or the egg, isn't it. So 248 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 3: they're building really strong relationships. So you can see that. 249 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 3: So to your point, you're right, there's a massive difference 250 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 3: in the level of trust. But the one common theme 251 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 3: that we would see is the ones that trust each 252 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 3: other the most have the best relationships. Now, gain chicken 253 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 3: or the egg. But what we talk about is building 254 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 3: really close relationships and then you can have those really good, 255 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 3: honest conversations, and when we're having the good, honest conversations, 256 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 3: both positive and negative, all right, we start to continue 257 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 3: to build trust. We define behaviors. So what we typically 258 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 3: see is the youngest person in the room. We ask 259 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 3: all the time, what is the culture? Because it's fine 260 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 3: for us if we're an exec team to say, oh, 261 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 3: this is what it is here, it is on the wall, 262 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 3: but really is it's our actions. It is our culture, 263 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 3: all right. So the newest person in the room will 264 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 3: see it. They will see whether we're close. They will 265 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 3: see whether we really are passionate or honest, or communicate 266 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 3: well or whatever they might be. But there's no question 267 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 3: as a huge correlation between trust and relationships, and we're 268 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 3: seeing it more and more in sporting clubs as well. 269 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 3: They spend enormous amount of time on the trust factor, 270 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 3: the relationship factor. Brene Brown talks a lot about authenticity 271 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 3: the leader being vulnerable and authentic is a really, really 272 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,559 Speaker 3: key component to high performing teams. 273 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 2: One of the elements I think sporting teams must have 274 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 2: as a basic is great discipline in terms of their fitness, 275 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 2: their training and so on. How does that contrast with 276 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 2: what you see in the business world. In terms of 277 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 2: the structures of sporting teams and the structures of businesses 278 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 2: in building that team fabric and trust. 279 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it. Corporates are never going to 280 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 3: get to the level unless you're running the whole line 281 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 3: iman or something like that. But let's be honest. I mean, 282 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 3: corporates are never going to the level of fitness and 283 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 3: health and an AFL footy team does. But if you're 284 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 3: truly a high performing organization, we have to start looking 285 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 3: after ourselves and our staff better. There's a really good 286 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 3: saying that I heard. Your own health will determine the 287 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 3: health of your business. And it really makes sense, doesn't it. 288 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 3: Like if we have a healthy, vibrant, happy executive team, 289 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 3: it's looking after themselves really well. They're actually coming into work. 290 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 3: And I talk about this all the time. You need 291 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 3: to be if you're an exec team, you need to 292 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 3: be the best you possibly can every day. That's what 293 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 3: your staff is expecting you to be. So if you're 294 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 3: not sleeping, if you're not eating well, you know, if 295 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 3: you're not exercising in some way, shape or form, and 296 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 3: you're coming in cranky every single day. So we've got 297 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 3: to change this notion of what a workplace looks like. 298 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 3: And we've got to make sure as leaders we're setting 299 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 3: the example. Now, fitness and eating and all that takes many, 300 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 3: many shapes of form. But how many companies do we 301 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 3: see that might have a gymnas I would say the 302 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 3: leader has to be in the gymnasium if you want 303 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 3: your staff to be healthy, pop in the gymnation, not 304 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 3: only be for ten minutes. But we talk about role modeling, 305 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 3: So if you look at the notion of role modeling, 306 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 3: you will do what the leader values. Right. That's why 307 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 3: clearly in footy clubs, normally the best teams are the 308 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 3: hardest working teams because their leaders work harder than the 309 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 3: bottom teams, so they become better. So it's the same concept. 310 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 3: But this notion of looking after yourselves and looking after 311 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 3: the staff, particularly in the condition we are at the moment, 312 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 3: it's never been more and more important. 313 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 2: So in the interview with Jared Murphy, he mentioned two 314 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 2: things that struck him that sporting organizations do better than business. 315 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: He called out development and review, as in finding the 316 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 2: young team of the future, finding the new players in 317 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: both men's and women's sport, individual and team and then 318 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 2: reviewing their performances regularly. 319 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 3: Do you agree with that. 320 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 2: That that's done far better in sport than it is 321 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 2: in business. 322 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 3: While the accountability in sport is just so far ahead 323 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 3: of business. Yeah. Absolutely, give the listen as an example. 324 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 3: So we play a game on a Saturday, the coaches 325 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 3: will review it. Sunday, we'll review it with the team collectively, 326 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 3: Monday with the leaders again, Monday afternoon Tuesday, individual, every 327 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 3: individual gets to review with the coach. Typically at a 328 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 3: business you get a six month review, so the accountability 329 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 3: and the improvement is off the charts, it's not even 330 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 3: really comparable. And then it's a case of okay within 331 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 3: the cadence of your corporate workplace. Yeah, we can't be 332 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,719 Speaker 3: reviewing every single day like a footy team does, but 333 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 3: absolutely need to spend more time on explaining to people 334 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 3: what they're good at, what they're not good at, and 335 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 3: then helping them, helping them, wrapping their arms around them. 336 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 3: And footy clubs do that incredibly well. They have a 337 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 3: really good understanding when young players come in of exactly 338 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 3: what they're capable of. They give them a really clear 339 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 3: roadmap of success, and then they try and help them 340 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 3: as much as they possibly can to be successful. 341 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: Paul, I saw you speak at a Starlight Foundation breakfast 342 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 2: many years ago, and one of the comments you made 343 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 2: was it something you learned as a player you decided 344 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 2: not to do as a coach, and that was when 345 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 2: you were playing, and say your team had lost. I'm 346 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 2: sure that was a very rare for you. But when 347 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 2: your team had lost, sometimes the coach would pick out 348 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 2: one instance that had not gone well enough and drawn that, 349 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 2: and then he'd find another, and then another, and before 350 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 2: you knew it, the whole room had been mowed down 351 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 2: with some feedback. And you decided your kind of reviews 352 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 2: weren't going to do that. You weren't going to do 353 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 2: that as a coach. Took me through that in terms 354 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: of how you might incorporate that style of review in 355 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 2: a professional world. 356 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, one of the best things I did, Adam 357 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 3: was and I actually still don't really know why I 358 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 3: did it, because this was I retired in nine to 359 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 3: ninety eight, and I sat down at the desk and 360 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 3: I wrote down the things I liked about my coaches 361 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 3: and didn't like about my coaches. Now, bearing in mind, 362 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 3: that was about the time when AFL football was coming 363 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 3: fully professional. Yeah. My first coach was Robert Walls and 364 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 3: David park and we were I mean we've literally turned 365 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 3: up at four point thirty run out in the training track. 366 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 3: Parker was elector of Walls. He was a school teacher. 367 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 3: So this is by no way, shape or form a 368 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 3: criticism of them. But there was a new dawn about 369 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 3: to shine on the industry, so I thought it's got 370 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 3: to be a better way to do it. I don't 371 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 3: know whether I'm going to be a coach, but I 372 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 3: want to write it down. And one of the things 373 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 3: that you described was after a game, the coaches would 374 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 3: just go nuts. They were just spray players and relationship. 375 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 3: I saw relationships destroyed after games of football. There's no question. 376 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 3: So when I talk to corporates about if you don't 377 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 3: have to make decisions under pressure, don't do it. And 378 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 3: I'll give you the example you're preferring to. So let's 379 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 3: say after a game of footy and we've lost. Now 380 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 3: I'm coaching Sydney or Melbourne. I've got about three or 381 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 3: four minutes to get from the coach's box to the 382 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 3: change rooms and then the players are there. I might 383 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 3: have heard something in the coach's box. Brett Kirk didn't 384 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 3: pick up his man. That's why I kicked the goal. 385 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 3: That's the last thing I've heard. I go down the coaches, 386 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 3: get the players in the room. I start off with Kirky, 387 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 3: and then because I'm so fired up, I go to Stewey, Maxfield, 388 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 3: and I go around the room. Then I go and 389 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 3: look at the review on the Monday, when I got 390 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 3: all the information, I actually go hang on, Brett Kirk 391 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 3: is covering for Bolted. He's doing an amazing job for 392 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 3: his teammate. Jude Bolt was the one. I've just given 393 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 3: Kirky an absolute baking after the game. Okay, so I'm 394 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 3: not in the fitth state to do it. I don't 395 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 3: have all the information to do it. And I say 396 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 3: that the corporates. We talk about this all the time. 397 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 3: Are you the leader you wish you had? Say that again? 398 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 3: Are you the leader you wish you had? Because I 399 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 3: guarantee a lot of people listening would be doing things 400 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 3: that they said they hated. And really it was an 401 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 3: audit for me to hold me accountable to the leader 402 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 3: that I wanted to be, not that I ever knew 403 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 3: at nine ninety eight I was going to start coaching 404 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 3: midway through two thousand and two, but it turned out 405 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 3: to be the best document that I ever wrote. 406 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 2: Really, wow, Paul, that's a great point to leave it. 407 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 2: I'm very grateful that you've spent some time with Fear 408 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 2: and Greed this morning. Thank you so much. 409 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 3: Thanks, I appreciate it. 410 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: That was Paul ruse afl legend and co founder of 411 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 2: Performance by Design. This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. 412 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 2: Join Sean Aim every weekday morning for the full Fear 413 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 2: and Greed podcast with all the business news you need 414 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 2: to know. I'm Adam lang Enjoy your day.