WEBVTT - Hollywood’s mind-control games 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:07.040 From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:14.080 It's Tuesday, December twenty four. Green's leader Adam Bandt says 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.360 Labor is coming closer to the Greens position of full 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.840 support for Palestine, saying Anthony Alberonizi has been forced to 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:24.560 admit the Greens were right all along in criticizing Israel. 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:28.920 That's an exclusive interview live on Beaustralian dot com dot 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:37.120 u right now. How are we being manipulated on social media? 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:41.280 That's the big question burning from Hollywood right through to 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.360 all of our feeds as actress Blake Lively launches legal 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:49.000 action against a coast and a production house she says 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:54.600 deliberately sought to destroy her reputation and her life. Today, 0:00:54.880 --> 0:01:03.440 Who's controlling what we see online? It was one of 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.760 the biggest movie releases of twenty twenty four, the longer 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:12.039 waited cinematic adaptation of Colleen Hoover's blockbuster novel It ends 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:13.880 with us, we. 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:16.000 All have an idea of what love can be. 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:18.959 I want to see you again. Now you see me, 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:20.240 you know what I mean. 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:28.360 The film's stars Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni who also 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.639 directed It Ends with Us, embarked upon a flashy press 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:36.080 tour reminiscent of the media blitz, executed to perfection by 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:38.479 Margo Robbie's Barbie. 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.640 I mean, honestly, I didn't have any hesitations. 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:43.080 To me. It was a no brainer. 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.319 But the longer it went on, the more things felt. 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:51.120 A bit off. There is clearly something going on with 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:51.760 this movie. 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.480 They were at the premiere last night, they're all still 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:56.240 not interacting with justin mind you. 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:58.640 He's the producer, director, and a main character. 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.520 He was rarely pictured with his co stars on red carpets. 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:08.440 Lively was criticized for her lighthearted promotion of a film 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.040 about domestic violence. 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.800 It Ends with Us as in theaters now, so grab 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:15.200 your friends, where your. 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.000 Florals and had out to see. 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:21.280 It, and for using the publicity tour to spook her 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:27.080 haircare and alcohol brands. Old interviews resurfaced in which Lively 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:29.760 appeared condescending, rude. 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:33.080 Or bratty. What's the best way for them to be 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:34.519 able to talk to you about this? How would you 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:36.880 recommend they go about it? Like asking for my address 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.480 or my phone number, or like my location share or 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:42.880 I could just location share you, and then we could. 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:47.120 It quickly became a pylon of a particularly new kind, 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:52.320 a social media avalanche of negative videos, posts, and stories 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.040 apparently made by creators who'd all come to a similar 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:58.799 conclusion blake Lively was horrible. 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:04.280 After her concerningly vapid answers to fairly serious questions, I 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:08.200 found myself asking has she always sounded like this? 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:12.880 I think my algorithm was tricking me. 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.840 Ellie Dudley is The Australian's Legal affairs correspondent. She's also 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:21.280 in her twenties, which means she's a prime target for 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.639 this kind of viral social content. 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.079 I was just being fed so much content that told 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.640 me that Blake Lively was a bad person. 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:36.120 On Friday, blake Lively filed a legal complaint revealed by 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.880 The New York Times in which she accused her co 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:43.640 star Justin Baldoni and others of legal violations, including sexual 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:48.640 harassment and retaliating against her for a workplace complaint. She's 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:53.520 claiming Baldoni, producer Jamie Heath, their film company Wayfarer and 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:58.240 its billionaire founder Steve Sarrowitz, and public relations people they 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:04.080 employed crafted a sophisticated social media astroturfing campaign in which 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:09.440 they created and then fed an onslaught of negativity against Lively. 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.680 The lawsuit claims it was all in an attempt to 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:18.400 intimidate Lively into staying silent about her claims that Baldoni 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:23.320 and Heath had behaved badly on set. Lively's lawsuit says 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.919 the social media campaign was retaliation for a meeting held 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:29.960 in January twenty twenty four in the middle of shooting 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.719 for the film, in which Lively presented a list of 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:37.680 thirty demands. We've used AI voices throughout this episode to 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:39.719 read from the legal complaint. 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.000 No more showing nude videos or images of women, including 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.520 producers who were mentioned of mister Baldoni's or mister Heath's 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.000 previous pornography addiction or BL's lack of pork. No more 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:54.040 descriptions of their own genitalia. No more inquiries by mister 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.200 Baldoni to BL trainer without her knowledge or consent to 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.560 disclose her weeak. An intimacy coordinator must be present at 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.040 all times when Biella is on satin scenes with mister Baldon. 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.279 Lively said after she signed on to make the movie, 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:12.160 Baldoni suddenly introduced sexual and nude scenes she hadn't agreed to, 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.760 including wanting her to be totally nude in a scene 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.720 where her character gives birth. 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.680 When miss Lively objected to these editions, mister Baldoni insisted 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.000 he had added them because he was making the film 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:26.159 through the female gaze. 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:33.160 Baldoni's denied the allegations, saying the complaint is categorically false 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:37.080 and accusing Lively of trying to tank the film. In 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.880 the end, the movie was a huge success, earning hundreds 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:43.360 of millions of dollars at the box office and telling 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:48.040 a powerful, domestic, violent story to audiences who didn't necessarily 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.159 go to the movies expecting to be dealing with such 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:55.560 big themes. But the legal dispute opens a window into 0:05:55.640 --> 0:06:00.640 how reputation is now, perhaps more than ever, being manipulated. 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.119 The really explosive part of the lawsuit is a series 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:09.160 of text messages Lively says she obtained by subpoena they 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:13.279 pre brought to show. Baldoni's publicist, Jennifer Abel in August 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:18.320 twenty twenty four, messaging PR consultant Melissa Nathan that her client, 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:23.840 Justin Baldoni, wanted the PR professionals to destroy Lively's reputation. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:26.880 Abel allegedly texted. 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:28.599 He wants to feel like she can be buried. 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:33.680 Nathan allegedly texted Abel back, we can't rate. 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:37.000 We will destroy her. Ima Jennifer documents saying all the 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.279 things that he once ends up in the wrong hands. 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.400 You know, we can bury anyone, but I can't rate 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:47.760 that to him coming up? 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:50.440 So what does this all mean for women in the 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.360 public eye and for the way we consume social media. 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.800 I sat down with Ellie Dudley and The Front's producer 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.080 Kristin Amiot to dig into what this all means. 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:14.920 So let's talk. 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:18.840 About the way you absorbed the social media coverage of 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.760 the press tool for It ends with Us? Was that 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.320 how you first became aware that this movie even existed. 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:27.760 When I first saw it, it was because I saw 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.720 something about Blake Lively and the rest of the women 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:35.360 in the cast not following justin on social media, and 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.440 then also them not posing for photos with him on 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.400 the press tour, them doing entirely separate junkets. That sort 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:46.119 of stuff started pointing some big arrows towards something isn't 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:47.760 happy here. What is going on? 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:52.160 It really is the epitome of the guilty pleasure, isn't 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.280 it spending time watching reels or scrolling through content in 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.280 your feed that you know is being served up to 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:01.080 you because you've already told the algorithm that you like it. 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:05.720 My version of this is Meghan Markle content. So TikTok 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:10.160 and Instagram have deduced that I really like Kate Middleton 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.560 and I think she's very classy, and I really think 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:14.880 Meghan Markle is trouble. 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:18.840 And so I am constantly. 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:22.720 Served videos of Megan Markle being weird or being horrible, 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:27.480 being rude to people, even though I know it is 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.240 not organic content. It's not just being served up to 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.200 me because most people agree with me. I can't help 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:35.400 myself kind of indulging in watching these videos. 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:37.640 And there's a bit of a trend on TikTok. I 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:37.920 don't know. 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.200 If you ever go to the comment section of those 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.120 videos that you're served, it can be about anything. It 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.680 could be Meghan Markle, it could be people cleaning carpets, 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.560 whatever it is people are in the comments, and they 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:49.640 will often you'll often see the same phrase over and 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.480 over again, which is I built this algorithm brick by brick, 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.800 So there is this self awareness of people recognizing that 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.719 they are being served the exact content that they want 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:01.439 to can assume at that moment in time, and it 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.800 might be ten carpet cleaning videos in a row, but 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:08.679 they understand I am the person who has created this. 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:10.880 It is just serving me what I've asked for and 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:12.080 what I've already engaged with. 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.800 In May, a podcast investigation by Alexi Mostris of Tortoise 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:23.880 Media exposed a stunning social media assault against the actress 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.800 Amber Herd. A defamation suit brought against her by her 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:31.560 ex husband, actor Johnny Depp in twenty twenty two whipped 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.440 up a social media frenzy in which more than fifteen 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.840 million posts targeting Herd and calling her a liar were 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:44.320 published on x. Depp ultimately won the suit and was 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:49.360 awarded almost sixteen million Australian dollars in damages. What Mostres 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:54.040 uncovered in the Hugeolled Amber podcast wasn't a dedicated fan base, 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:58.720 but a sophisticated campaign perpetrated in large part by the 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:03.360 Saudi Arabian disinf amation network known as the Ministry of Flies, 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.800 the country's crown Prince, Muhammed bin Sulman. It turns out 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.000 is a big fan of Depths, and the actor appears 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:13.920 to have reciprocated Saudi Arabia's help in the form of 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:19.080 positive publicity, including praise of Saudi Arabia's cultural revolution. 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.839 There is something about these cultural moments. So when you're 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.920 engaging with that and seeing what people think, you're telling 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:31.000 your algorithm, please feed me more of these videos. I 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.040 love them. Show me what you've got. 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.280 And the enjoyment, to a certain extent, comes from the 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.120 stakes being so low for any of us. You are 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:43.320 observing this exchange, this cultural exchange that's going on. 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.480 It's interesting because one of the things that social media 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.400 is doing is critiquing the mainstream media, is saying, question 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:53.280 everything and be a skeptic. And yet, because of the 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:58.280 extremely addictive and delicious nature of particularly video content on 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:03.280 social media, we don't apply that same skepticism and caution 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:05.520 to what we're being served on social right. 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:10.400 And if social media is holding the mainstream media to account, 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.160 who's holding social media to account? Which I think is 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.800 where we end up. I think there's something really interesting 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.800 because young people today are becoming increasingly more literate when 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.240 it comes to what they're consuming online. They're able to 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.120 pick something that is an AI generated video, or they're 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.040 able to see a tabloid headline that just seems a 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.800 little bit off kilch, how something's not quite right. But 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.920 what happens when there is an entire force at play 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:38.760 pushing at social media algorithm to change the way that 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:42.680 the public thinks. How can an individual possibly push up 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:43.240 against that? 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:48.240 There's also a possibility that this actually proves her argument 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:53.000 in that if indeed Justin Baldoni and the people he 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.000 employed can orchestrate a campaign so devastating that it can 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.400 dismantle the reputation of somebody. 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.720 Like Blake, live with the standing that she has. 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.840 In Hollywood was to say, it can't also work in 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.720 his favor and actually build up his brand in the 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.040 same process. And in fact, that branding exercise, purely from 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:14.160 a marketing perspective, has been going on for several years 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.880 before he came to this film. He did a ted 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:21.080 talk about sort of vulnerability and masculinity that went viral 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:24.280 I think in around twenty seventeen. He then parlayed that 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:29.840 into two books a podcast about male vulnerability toxic masculinity, 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.120 discussing these things in a really open end. It appeared 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.400 to be an intellectual way. So there is a marketing 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.440 exercise that's been going on long before this that while 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:43.679 it can allegedly do damage, it can also build the 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.080 foundations of something that's powerful in a different way. 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:48.760 I mean, does it basically boil down to the idea 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:54.040 that society, men and women, and particularly now in this 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.440 age of social media, doesn't like a woman who stands 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:58.560 up for herself and says, I don't like the way 0:12:58.600 --> 0:12:59.280 you're behaving. 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.080 I'm boss here. This is my call? Is that it? 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.880 I think it's more than that. I think that if 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:10.760 we believe everything that Lively has put in her legal complaint, 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:13.760 then I think that we can believe that these men 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.360 decided to shut down a woman that was trying to 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:20.160 make a workplace safer. I then think that they succeeded 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.720 in doing that. They spread a narrative, and they choreographed 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:28.640 a campaign trying to damage her reputation. That worked. And 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:30.880 I think that women and other people on the internet 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.200 bought into that because they like to shut down a 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.840 woman that's standing up for herself, and also because it's easy, 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.840 and also because they loved the drama of it. 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:43.600 I mean, she seems to have it all, doesn't she 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:48.800 She's stunningly beautiful, very stylish, extremely rich and very successful. 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:50.720 You know what's not to hate. 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.000 And broadly liked as well. Right. She built this entire 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:58.040 brand around being a nice lady. She's got her fun, 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.720 playful relationship with her husband and Ryan Reynolds, and they've 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:05.400 built this brand about being really, really likable. They flew 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.120 too close to the likable sun, if you will, and 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.160 got burnt. And so the Internet is really happy to 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.320 pile on to somebody because you know that they're doing 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:16.559 too well, or they're too successful, or they're too beautiful 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:17.280 or whatever it is. 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:28.600 Ellie Dudley is The Australian's Legal affairs correspondent. Over summer, 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:30.960 we'll be right here on the front with the headlines 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.800 you need and some deep dives into Australia's best journalism, 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.360 whether you're listening on the beach or on a road 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:40.520 trip or just escaping from the relatives while pretending to 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:41.120 walk the dog. 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:42.160 From all of 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.480 Us here at the Front and The Australian, have a 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:48.360 merry Christmas, a happy Haneker, a brilliant new Year, and 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.760 a beautiful time with your favorite people.