Speaker 1: Welcome to the mentor. I'm Mark Boris Tracy Sheen. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Mentor. Thank you, Mark, author All Things AI
Speaker 1: Artificial Intelligence says here and I haven't read your book,
Speaker 1: but I appreciate this book. Here, but that's not your
Speaker 1: first book. But this is a new book. It is
Speaker 1: the new book. But you're launching is it launch it?
Speaker 2: No, you've got the advanced copy of Perfect Secret Squirrel
Speaker 2: Stuff AI and Me or AI and You by Tracy Sheen, reimage, reimagine.
Speaker 1: I should say business, and that's like a huge topic
Speaker 1: at the moment. I have to say. I am a
Speaker 1: consistent and relatively speaking new user of at least AI chatbots,
Speaker 1: so I do use AI in relation to lots of
Speaker 1: things I use in relation. My whoop has a body
Speaker 1: in their chap ont in there where you can ask questions,
Speaker 1: and I think it uses chat ChiPT four, which is
Speaker 1: like the latest iteration of cheat ChiPT and I use
Speaker 1: co pilot for other stuff. I tend to use it
Speaker 1: as my search engine these days, unless I'm on a
Speaker 1: demonstration where I'll use YouTube. It's sort of a pretty
Speaker 1: much everyone I talk to. It's like I think I've
Speaker 1: been cool and I'm one of the few people doing this,
Speaker 1: but just about every young person at least I talked
Speaker 1: to use it. Just about when I say young, like
Speaker 1: anywhere up to fifty, that's what I consider young. And
Speaker 1: they're all using it. My mates don't or rarely, but
Speaker 1: as soon as like, it's nearly unavoidable. And I'd like
Speaker 1: to ask you maybe you can give me a little
Speaker 1: bit of a history of AI sort of because it's
Speaker 1: not something that started last week, you know, like when
Speaker 1: did sort of kick off? Really?
Speaker 2: Okay, So my opinion, we've been doing this since the
Speaker 2: dawn of time. So if we look to our first
Speaker 2: nation's people and we think about song lines or we
Speaker 2: think about weaving, that is binary, that is artificial. So
Speaker 2: the concept of songlines and storytelling is really our attempt
Speaker 2: to embed information into other people in an artificial way. Right,
Speaker 2: So if you think about the actual term artificial intelligence,
Speaker 2: for me, it's been around for thousands of years. It's
Speaker 2: just humans trying to outlive themselves. But really, I mean,
Speaker 2: we can go through and look at you know, Mary
Speaker 2: Shelley and Frankenstein looking to bring to life some kind
Speaker 2: of artificial creature. All religions, all nations, have some history
Speaker 2: of trying to define artificial intelligence, but the term was
Speaker 2: coined in the fifties. It came out of a conference
Speaker 2: at Dartmouth in the US in nineteen fifty six, and
Speaker 2: then it's kind of been going through there. It went
Speaker 2: through a period of what they call the winter in
Speaker 2: the eighties where we just didn't have the computing power
Speaker 2: to catch up with what they thought it could do.
Speaker 2: And obviously in the last kind of five years it's
Speaker 2: really exponentially ramped up.
Speaker 1: So are you saying, therefore the exponential growth of it,
Speaker 1: which is probably a better way of putting it. It's
Speaker 1: not something new. It's just exponentially grown in the last
Speaker 1: few years. Is because the concept of artificial intelligence or
Speaker 1: intelligence that were not born with we don't know through instinct, etc.
Speaker 1: Or maybe we don't necessarily know through experience, but that
Speaker 1: concept has now been caught up to by computer computer powers.
Speaker 1: In other words, computing power needed to catch up to
Speaker 1: the concept correct. And so it's now the likes of
Speaker 1: Nvidea and et cetera, who are putting greater computing power
Speaker 1: into our laptops and mobile phones and all those other
Speaker 1: stuff does allow this to happen. So technology is finally
Speaker 1: caught up I said in Nvidia, But that's just one
Speaker 1: of the examples. But technology has sort of caught up
Speaker 1: with the concept.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the hard way is caught up with the thinking.
Speaker 1: Really, so we're not just we're not telling stories anymore
Speaker 1: like our first nations people did and still do by
Speaker 1: verbalizing it and trying to make explanations about how things
Speaker 1: occurred by just through word of mouth. It's now been
Speaker 1: done through technology. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Correct, So it's just the next iteration for me of
Speaker 2: you know, a dance around a fire, a rock painting,
Speaker 2: a story being handed down. It's just that next iteration
Speaker 2: that humans are always looking for way to leave their mark.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting because there's probably lots of things that
Speaker 1: happen like that through technology. I mean everybody sort of.
Speaker 1: I think we all tend to think that our technology
Speaker 1: has invented something new that didn't exist before. And if
Speaker 1: I can go back and think about all the things
Speaker 1: times of that I have thought that, and then now
Speaker 1: if I reflect on it, and I have been reflecting
Speaker 1: out of the last six two months now, very few
Speaker 1: things are new. Like you can look at the iPhone,
Speaker 1: but before this, this is just a way of talking
Speaker 1: to someone. Now, I'm not using that. I'm just talking
Speaker 1: to you direct as old school. But I could be
Speaker 1: talking to using one of these. But that's just technology
Speaker 1: allowing me to do the same thing I'm doing now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was a Jimmy Hendrix that said
Speaker 2: three chords in the truth, Like, there's not a whole
Speaker 2: lot that comes from nothing. It's an iteration of something
Speaker 2: that's come before. So as you said, you know, I
Speaker 2: was there on the launch day of the first iPhone
Speaker 2: in two thousand and eight where we lined up around
Speaker 2: the block and you know, slept out overnight. But before that,
Speaker 2: I was selling Nokia phones with Snake building, and before
Speaker 2: that I was selling the Motorola Transportable. So before that
Speaker 2: we had rotary dialing. Before that, we had party lines,
Speaker 2: and before that we had tin cans and a bit
Speaker 2: of string. You know. It's just it's that next iteration.
Speaker 1: Yeah. A good example of that is what's the name
Speaker 1: of that video conferencing call. It's just recently closed down.
Speaker 1: I can't remember it was now. You know they said
Speaker 1: that funny sound when you used to dial into it. Oh,
Speaker 1: Skype Skype.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well skyp'es just morphed into teams. So again it's
Speaker 2: just the next iteration.
Speaker 1: But Skype is officially closed, so there's no Skype. And
Speaker 1: I remember when it first came out. It was a
Speaker 1: bit clunky, bit awkward, but he said it was sort
Speaker 1: of a funny sound to it. The thing I loved
Speaker 1: about it was when you first connected, you like a
Speaker 1: little jingle sort of thing. Yeah, and I still.
Speaker 2: Like that, or when it should make it your ring time.
Speaker 1: It's a good sound. You can do that, you probably can.
Speaker 1: And but now but officially it's it's finished. It doesn't
Speaker 1: exist anymore because now you know FaceTime face time is
Speaker 1: getting old, you know WhatsApp like exactly, this just keeps
Speaker 1: going on or not exactly. So therefore, why is artificial
Speaker 1: intelligence excuse me soon to be so so scary?
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: I think it's just no.
Speaker 2: I think it's just the unknown. I think there should
Speaker 2: be healthy skepticism. But technology in and of itself is
Speaker 2: in innate object. So I don't believe that it's the
Speaker 2: technology that you should be afraid of. Perhaps some of
Speaker 2: the tech bros behind the technology should cause some pause,
Speaker 2: but technology by itself is neither good nor bad. It's
Speaker 2: how humans manipulate it and choose to use it. That
Speaker 2: causes grief.
Speaker 1: That makes sense. So it's the I have heard. I'll
Speaker 1: put another way I have heard. So if I go
Speaker 1: back into the middle, about early two thousands period, everybody
Speaker 1: was talking about the so called Internet of things, that is,
Speaker 1: using sensors to sense things around us on us, et cetera,
Speaker 1: fitting it into the Internet and then taking it to
Speaker 1: some administration point and being able to work out what's
Speaker 1: going on remotely from long, long way away. And everyone
Speaker 1: kept talking about the Internet things being the greatest thing
Speaker 1: that's ever going to happen to mankind, in other words,
Speaker 1: and they kept comparing it to the commercial change, the
Speaker 1: changes in commerce as a result of the Internet being existing.
Speaker 1: They say the Internet of Things will outstripped that by
Speaker 1: a hundred times. Now they're saying artificial intelligence will outstrip
Speaker 1: both of them in a commercial sense, speed up commerce,
Speaker 1: and probably there'll be something else in ten years time,
Speaker 1: more than likely. So I've come back to the same point.
Speaker 1: Given the speed at which AI the Internet of things,
Speaker 1: and before that the Internet made commerce change, and given that,
Speaker 1: people like even Neu La Musk is saying that it
Speaker 1: could be lead to the destruction of the world. What
Speaker 1: is it that we need to worry about? Because we
Speaker 1: hear these comments coming from these really famous people and
Speaker 1: we've sort of look at history and some of us
Speaker 1: believe because we don't understand this enough. And no doubt
Speaker 1: that's part of your book. But what is it that
Speaker 1: we need to be worried about? I mean, like I mean,
Speaker 1: apart from people manipulating? Is that what it is? Manful?
Speaker 2: Ultimately, that's what it comes down to. Like to me,
Speaker 2: you know, the tablet you've got in front of you,
Speaker 2: the phone you've got in front of you. Innately, they're
Speaker 2: they're neither good nor bad.
Speaker 1: They just are ye because they're sitting there. It's not
Speaker 1: a problem.
Speaker 2: It's not a problem. But if you choose to send
Speaker 2: a message that you know, destroys someone, that's the problem.
Speaker 2: But that's you, that's the human behind the tech. Uh
Speaker 2: And I think that's the same of anything. I think
Speaker 2: some of the tech bros and you mentioned Elon and
Speaker 2: the likes, you know, they're the future power grabbers. Is data.
Speaker 2: Data is currency. So that's what the play is for
Speaker 2: them as they're looking for how much storage capacity and
Speaker 2: how much data can they be gathering about us, because
Speaker 2: that's what then manipulates the commerce to build the algorithms
Speaker 2: or the AI around it to say, Okay, Mark, I know,
Speaker 2: based on these transactions and where you've been and who
Speaker 2: you've spoken to and what you've looked at, et cetera,
Speaker 2: et cetera, that you are likely to be in the
Speaker 2: market for X, Y and Z. So I'm just going
Speaker 2: to put it in front of you.
Speaker 1: But what's wrong with that?
Speaker 2: Well, nothing, if it's if it makes your life easier, yeah,
Speaker 2: but if it begins to manipulate the way you think,
Speaker 2: because it takes you further and further down a rabbit hole,
Speaker 2: because you're continuing to buy in or look at that
Speaker 2: particular news article or information set that confirms your existing bias,
Speaker 2: then the algorithm of the AI is going to continue
Speaker 2: to feed you more of that, so you go further
Speaker 2: and further down a rabbit hole. And I think that's
Speaker 2: part of for me what I'm seeing with almost the
Speaker 2: division that's occurring, that we can't have a conversation without
Speaker 2: forming a you know, you said, she said, and I'm
Speaker 2: a Republican and you're a Democrat or whatever flavor you
Speaker 2: want to enter into. I think a lot of that
Speaker 2: is to do with the algorithms and the AI behind
Speaker 2: it that you start searching for x, y, and zed,
Speaker 2: so you're fed more of that to keep you on
Speaker 2: the platforms, because that's how they earn their money by
Speaker 2: you giving them eyeballs. So they're going to feed you
Speaker 2: more of that to get you to spend more time,
Speaker 2: more energy, more everything in that instead of showing you, well,
Speaker 2: perhaps I'll show you something that is the other side
Speaker 2: of the coin to that, so you can then make
Speaker 2: an educated decision on whether you believe that that is
Speaker 2: true or that is true.
Speaker 1: So are there any ethics around this, like AI ethics
Speaker 1: and organizations or generally agreed principles about the ethics of
Speaker 1: how artificial intelligence should work? For example, a good example,
Speaker 1: you just raised it. So let's say we're going through
Speaker 1: the political period. We've just gone through one, and for
Speaker 1: some reason, I keep looking up Labor Party senators and
Speaker 1: Lower House senators to Lower House members to see what
Speaker 1: their views are on whatever it is, and therefore and
Speaker 1: then the algorithm picks it up and starts feeding me
Speaker 1: more stuff. Are there any ethical groups or agreed groups
Speaker 1: that these various organizations like Instagram at matter and all
Speaker 1: that can be part of that sort of say, hang on,
Speaker 1: we should start to give Mark a balance view and
Speaker 1: you know where and so you know, the algorithm says, well,
Speaker 1: Mark's just looked up twenty things on labor. We should
Speaker 1: probably give him something on the Greens, something on the
Speaker 1: National something on the liberals, just to give him some
Speaker 1: balance or is that uncool because wishful thinking? Well yeah,
Speaker 1: but there's no ethical groups talking about that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: And well, there is ethical groups discussing it a lot,
Speaker 2: but you know, you mentioned Mata as a good example.
Speaker 2: They've just withdrawn their rights to well they're what they
Speaker 2: calling it their ability to balance content. So they've removed
Speaker 2: that now. So they've just kind of gone its freedom
Speaker 2: of speech. If you go down that that pathway, I
Speaker 2: mean you want yeah, pretty much, and if you think
Speaker 2: about it to whom I don't prove it exactly like
Speaker 2: that's there. That's their kind of point now, right, like,
Speaker 2: prove it to whom? Who is that offensive to? Because
Speaker 2: if you're going down that rabbit hole, clearly it's not
Speaker 2: offensive to you. And if I'm coming in from you
Speaker 2: know the other side, looking at that and going that's offensive. Well,
Speaker 2: I'm going down a completely different rabbit hole. But as
Speaker 2: far as meta, we just use them as you know,
Speaker 2: a term. They their whole business structure is to keep
Speaker 2: eyeballs on their platform. The longer you are spending invested
Speaker 2: doom scrolling Facebook or Instagram, they're gathering information on you,
Speaker 2: and that's converting into data to sell you more products,
Speaker 2: to give them more airtime. So it's not in their
Speaker 2: interest to show you something that you're likely to go, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm out of here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I don't know. I don't any longer believe
Speaker 1: in that theme, because you're now convinced me that I
Speaker 1: should believing in something else.
Speaker 2: That's exactly why you keep getting you know, kittens, Here's
Speaker 2: here's the latest cat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well my search, I keep getting dogs because I
Speaker 1: like looking at dogs, and they keep feeding your stuff.
Speaker 1: When I go to the search, they keep showing me
Speaker 1: what I looked at, or they're suggesting stuff to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's more dogs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, here's more dogs.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you can exactly.
Speaker 2: That's AI in action.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's just before we go, and I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you a question, is there I don't know
Speaker 1: how this works, but is there's somebody at Meta who
Speaker 1: can look through all this sort of stuff and say
Speaker 1: Tracey is interested in kittens and Mark's interested in cats,
Speaker 1: they actually get access to the stuff, or they're denied access.
Speaker 2: Good question. I think right now they have retrenched a
Speaker 2: bunch of stuff They could absolutely if they wanted to.
Speaker 2: I would suggest that they are probably pulling that information
Speaker 2: more for advertising purposes than for anything else, So they'd
Speaker 2: just be running the numbers off the back end X
Speaker 2: amount of videos per day, you know, x amount watched
Speaker 2: in those videos. We know the average cutoff time is
Speaker 2: nine seconds. Therefore we're going to start pushing content that
Speaker 2: is less than nine seconds. And now off the back
Speaker 2: of that, we're going to take you to a dog
Speaker 2: food commercial Aura or his dog group, or his dog
Speaker 2: walking group, or his buy a hoodie for your dog.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. But you would expect within an
Speaker 1: organization would have some sort of governance rules that say
Speaker 1: a low level person in the joint can't access. It's
Speaker 1: a bit like if you're working the cops, you can't
Speaker 1: just go and look at Mark Boris as far when
Speaker 1: I you feel like it, you have to. There has
Speaker 1: to be a whole set of protocols around that. Yes,
Speaker 1: I would hope that in these big organizations have access
Speaker 1: to various things that I look at, that they would
Speaker 1: have similar sort of protocols inside the joint that someone
Speaker 1: can't just walk in and do a number on me
Speaker 1: until a private investigator and might be looking at something
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 2: I agree, I would hope. So I also think we're
Speaker 2: at a stage now. I'll give you a good example.
Speaker 2: We've just sold our house on the weekend. It was
Speaker 2: one search of the owner's name that allowed us to
Speaker 2: find their Facebook profile and find out of how many
Speaker 2: people we were connected with in common, and you know
Speaker 2: who they worked for, and so it's not that we're
Speaker 2: not disconnected anymore. You know, the days of like, oh,
Speaker 2: how do I actually find out about Mark before I
Speaker 2: go and have a chat to win? Just going to
Speaker 2: leak dow, jump into chat, GPT or copilot, put your
Speaker 2: name in, and all of a sudden, you know, I've
Speaker 2: done exactly I'm able to. But it's also giving you
Speaker 2: the version that you've already searched for. So if you
Speaker 2: want a true version of what it thinks about Mark Borros,
Speaker 2: you'd have to open up a private browser and then
Speaker 2: put your name in and see what comes up.
Speaker 1: Right as not as Mark boris correct. Yeah, so as
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: A private browser, So just open unlog out of or
Speaker 2: log out of where you are and just open a
Speaker 2: private browser and put your name in and then see
Speaker 2: how it differs from when you're searching within your Google
Speaker 2: account or Microsoft account or whatever, and it's got your history,
Speaker 2: and it knows what you've looked for, and it knows
Speaker 2: who you are based on everything that you've written, etc.
Speaker 1: Others. It'd be interesting to get a neutral view of yourself.
Speaker 2: Well as neutral as anything.
Speaker 1: Again, an unbiased view of yourself. That's interesting. I want
Speaker 1: to go to when I come back, I want to
Speaker 1: talk about the book, but I also want to talk
Speaker 1: to you about various platforms that you can use AI
Speaker 1: as I'm talking about BT you know, co Pilot, Deep
Speaker 1: c et cetera, blah blah, the whole lot of them.
Speaker 1: Not all. We'll talk about some of them and how
Speaker 1: you can use those in business, and how you can
Speaker 1: use those to advance your business and all your life.
Speaker 1: I'm crazy about using them, but you know, I do
Speaker 1: all sorts of things and them, get them, write speeches,
Speaker 1: get them, check speeches. Get them to do side for things,
Speaker 1: et cetera. And so if I've been fairly relevant. So
Speaker 1: if I've been fairly relevant, but we'll go to the break,
Speaker 1: we'll come straight back. I'm back from the break. I'm
Speaker 1: here with Tracy Sheen and she's the author of this book.
Speaker 1: I have here in my hands. AI n you and
Speaker 1: it's quite well timed. You have had written another book,
Speaker 1: by the way, what's the other book called?
Speaker 2: So the first book was called The End of Technophobia?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is that about?
Speaker 2: Well, that was literally helping business owners that were typically
Speaker 2: over forty So at the time, sixty three percent of
Speaker 2: our small business owners in Australia aged over forty five.
Speaker 2: So we didn't grow up with technology. It happened to
Speaker 2: us fantastic accountants, fantastic plumbers, but we didn't know the
Speaker 2: first thing about LinkedIn or zero or whatever. So the
Speaker 2: book was really just stepping them through basically everything they
Speaker 2: needed to know from finance software through to social media
Speaker 2: and everything in between.
Speaker 1: And did you do another book as well after that?
Speaker 2: This is the book and then I've written I co
Speaker 2: authored a book way back when I had a very
Speaker 2: very different life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the objective of this book, then, is what the.
Speaker 2: Objective of this book is really the mind shift that's
Speaker 2: required to take us from how business has always been
Speaker 2: to what's our uber Morgan? And I love that word.
Speaker 2: It's uber Morgan. Isn't it a great word? Uber Morgan?
Speaker 2: So it's a German word that literally means the day
Speaker 2: after tomorrow. But with my clients I get them to
Speaker 2: think about, well, what does what does your business look like?
Speaker 2: After AI? What's next? What's the next thing? And how
Speaker 2: are you going to future proof? You're interesting?
Speaker 1: Okay, that's pretty cool. So apart from writing a nice
Speaker 1: note there to me, so it says here just chapter
Speaker 1: one relationships the heart relationships, it's the heart of your business.
Speaker 1: And then it finishes off talking about turning ideas into impact.
Speaker 1: So do you use this? Thirteen chapters? But do you
Speaker 1: are you?
Speaker 2: It's a framework, so it's built around the word where
Speaker 2: you imagine? Okay, and it steps people through relationships, so
Speaker 2: getting an understanding of who your customers are, who your
Speaker 2: suppliers are, what's going on mart using So everything for
Speaker 2: me has to come to people. AI won't fix a
Speaker 2: business if there's problems unless you know what those problems are.
Speaker 2: So you need to have a good handle on how
Speaker 2: the business is currently structured before you can even look
Speaker 2: at AI to solve a problem or to grow, or
Speaker 2: to scale or to do anything like that. So it
Speaker 2: always has to loop for me as a customer centric
Speaker 2: or a human centric thing, So everything's got to come
Speaker 2: back to the human. AI for me is a collaborator,
Speaker 2: not a competitor, so I treat it like a team member,
Speaker 2: not someone that's going to come in and take the
Speaker 2: jobs or destroy the business or change the business. So
Speaker 2: once we understand where the humans fit, then we move
Speaker 2: on to looking at everything we're already using. So that's
Speaker 2: evaluating what's my current tech stack. I use Microsoft, I've
Speaker 2: got Gmail, I've got Outlook, I've got Zero, I've got
Speaker 2: xyz whatever, and then we can go to identify So
Speaker 2: then what's the problem. What's the low hanging fruit that
Speaker 2: if I fix that one thing now would make a
Speaker 2: huge difference. So to give me an hour back at it,
Speaker 2: give me ten hours back at it, smooth the client journey,
Speaker 2: whatever that is. Once we know that, we can map
Speaker 2: out a process and then we activate the process, gather
Speaker 2: the information and go from there. So it's really kind
Speaker 2: of structured thinking. It's a mindset shift as opposed to
Speaker 2: use this tool because as you can imagine, as we've
Speaker 2: already discussed, this stuff is changing so quickly. If I
Speaker 2: had written about you know, chat to YOUBT or co
Speaker 2: pilot or you know, into any other random tool at
Speaker 2: the moment, it'd be out of date by the time
Speaker 2: you've got that in your hot little hand.
Speaker 1: Because you've been an hour's version four, version five next
Speaker 1: month for Yeah, so it's not It's happening pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: And you're right, I mean, ask me, immortals is pretty
Speaker 1: hard to keep up with it, to be honest with you,
Speaker 1: how could But let's say my business, this broadcasting business,
Speaker 1: is there something we should be doing? I mean a
Speaker 1: perfect we can use it for editing. I get that,
Speaker 1: and I think the guys do use of editing now
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence, you know, to take out all the clunky bids,
Speaker 1: take all the awkward bits the albums and ours, blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. But how would it, say, would someone think
Speaker 1: about using one of the protocols to assist us, for example,
Speaker 1: to build our audience? Would be Is it the sort
Speaker 1: of thing you would go into into the protocol and
Speaker 1: say what is everybody listening to the mentor podcast? What
Speaker 1: do they want to hear? What's a guess are looking for?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could certainly develop a listener persona based on
Speaker 2: the information that you know, the darty you'd be gathering
Speaker 2: off your server, but also things like I love that
Speaker 2: there's a platform called cast magic that I use quite
Speaker 2: a lot, and Minho two and cast magic. You can
Speaker 2: upload an audio file and spend the content so well
Speaker 2: then rep purpose it. I think it says like sixty
Speaker 2: sixty five different ways or something. So from one audio file,
Speaker 2: I can create social media posts, blogs, listicles.
Speaker 1: So it's a beneficiency, we.
Speaker 2: Ask questions efficiency, and that's also about building the audience
Speaker 2: because it's offering your listeners a way to connect with
Speaker 2: the show or connect with you or the company in
Speaker 2: a different way other than just the podcast. So here's
Speaker 2: some other content.
Speaker 1: So when it's think, when it doesn't think, but when
Speaker 1: it delivers you some other content, is it only going
Speaker 1: to deliver you the other content based on what you've
Speaker 1: already done and based on your audience, or does it
Speaker 1: actually sit back and say, you know what, everything's going
Speaker 1: in a different direction and you're going down the wrong
Speaker 1: track and we're going to take it a different way.
Speaker 1: Or is that an example example of when they say
Speaker 1: AI can hallucinate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to the first part. The cast magic and those
Speaker 2: types of tools are purely about creating additional content from
Speaker 2: what you've already preloaded, so it learns your voice, so
Speaker 2: then it can translate your voice into the written word
Speaker 2: or into video shorts that you can then upload on
Speaker 2: social media channels eccter.
Speaker 1: Know my voice by having a look, or what I've already,
Speaker 1: how I've already said stuff and whatever.
Speaker 2: And literally by listening, so you would upload the audio
Speaker 2: file and off it goes. Right. So that's great, But
Speaker 2: in terms of the hallucinations that comes back to the
Speaker 2: human in the loop, you always need to be checking
Speaker 2: your content always, you know. Ultimately, for me, it's like
Speaker 2: when you fill in your your tax return at the
Speaker 2: end of the year. The ATO doesn't care if they
Speaker 2: come back to you and go mark and you go, oh, mate,
Speaker 2: sorry my accountant did that at I don't care you
Speaker 2: signed it, sure, return exactly, And for me, AI is
Speaker 2: the same. You you still need to have your own
Speaker 2: values and ethics that you stand behind and go, I've
Speaker 2: given this the once over, We're good to go, because.
Speaker 1: Would you explain, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Hallucination is just basically making bs. It just makes stuff up.
Speaker 1: Well, it doesn't make stuff of fine stuff that's been
Speaker 1: made up.
Speaker 2: Well no, not necessarily. It can just completely make stuff up.
Speaker 2: So I have asked in the past and chat GPT
Speaker 2: about me, and it's created a whole bunch of books
Speaker 2: that I've never written. But some of them are great titles.
Speaker 2: So do you think I made a note of them?
Speaker 2: And when that's a pretty good idea, I'm going to
Speaker 2: co pass that down.
Speaker 1: The line of comment is that comment is that something
Speaker 1: happens a lot.
Speaker 2: It is, and it seems to I find and this
Speaker 2: is just my take on it. I have no data
Speaker 2: to back this one up, so you know, it's a
Speaker 2: bit of a lick the finger and stick it in
Speaker 2: the air thing. But I think it sends to happen
Speaker 2: as we're about to get a new iteration, so as cheap.
Speaker 2: As chat GPT, for example, is going from four to five,
Speaker 2: we're seeing more of it at the moment. I've noticed
Speaker 2: it slows down and I've noticed that it will it's
Speaker 2: becoming over complimentary at the moment, and that's one thing yeah,
Speaker 2: and really kind of like, oh, that's great, Mark, that's
Speaker 2: really really fantastic. I think that's what I want you to do.
Speaker 2: And then you could spin it and say, actually, I'm
Speaker 2: going to go down this path. Oh that's a really
Speaker 2: good idea. And it wasn't doing that a couple of
Speaker 2: months ago. So I feel like I feel like this
Speaker 2: is something that happens with every iteration, and whether, again
Speaker 2: my gut feel, whether they're diverting computing power to the
Speaker 2: new model while they're testing it and just kind of
Speaker 2: phoning it in for the other one for the time being.
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's my gut instinct. And that's kind
Speaker 2: of you know, on the on the back channels when
Speaker 2: we're kind of talking in Boffen language. But when you
Speaker 2: when it does officially land, then all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: it's it's back on the money again, and you're like,
Speaker 2: all right, here we go.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I've been using I won't mention it,
Speaker 1: but I've been using one platform, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: they also end up with one of the open AI protocols. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot of new ones, and it's
Speaker 1: been it's been reminding me of what I might have
Speaker 1: asked it last week because I'm not closing it out,
Speaker 1: I'm just keeping it open.
Speaker 2: Do you have a paid account or a free paid account? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 2: so well if you have a paid account, even with
Speaker 2: a free account, it develops a memory, but with a
Speaker 2: paid account it's certainly a longer tail memory. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean mine.
Speaker 1: Well, you're closing it out, though, Tracy, should we do close?
Speaker 1: So start again?
Speaker 2: I don't. I wipe conversations every now and again, so
Speaker 2: if we're talking about chat GPT, you can go into
Speaker 2: your settings and delete certain conversations or certain things. So,
Speaker 2: because I do a lot of training about how to
Speaker 2: get the most out of these tools, I'm off and
Speaker 2: in front of them in long Reach this weekend. So
Speaker 2: you know, i'll be in front of a group of
Speaker 2: business owners, and you know one might be a coffee
Speaker 2: shop owner. So I'll be on the system going I'm
Speaker 2: a coffee shop owner and I want to develop a
Speaker 2: new X, Y Z or whatever. So if I don't
Speaker 2: go in and delete that conversation next week, it'll be going, oh,
Speaker 2: you still think you've only your coffee shop? Yeah, so
Speaker 2: you know you always.
Speaker 1: Version that's the free as well. So because I just
Speaker 1: noticed that I've It sort of goes back and says, well, because,
Speaker 1: for example, because you've been interested in health, I mean
Speaker 1: i've been. I've sort of been sort of sort of
Speaker 1: cross examining it in a certain way, a cross examining
Speaker 1: a certain protocol about something that they measure in a
Speaker 1: sort of fairly aggressive way, as if it's a person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I can do it because you can't offend it.
Speaker 1: So it's fun. And I've been trying to understand the
Speaker 1: mathematics of something, and I'll be sort of challenging the
Speaker 1: mathematical processes. And it was, and I stopped doing it then,
Speaker 1: and but then I just asked another question which it
Speaker 1: sort of was broadly related to my question of a
Speaker 1: few weeks ago, and it brought it up again, and
Speaker 1: I felt like I was getting into trouble for something
Speaker 1: that I had said a couple of weeks ago, and
Speaker 1: it so brought it back up to me. And I'm
Speaker 1: with the help like because it didn't like it sounds stupid,
Speaker 1: but it sounds crazy. I might be going crazy. But
Speaker 1: it felt like it didn't like me asking the questions
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago. It felt like I was
Speaker 1: it felt like it thought I was trying to interrogate
Speaker 1: something that was intellectual of intellectual value or intellectual property
Speaker 1: that they didn't want to release to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Rights, it is interesting what I do see a
Speaker 2: lot when you say close it out. Are you continuing
Speaker 2: the conversation thread or are you starting new chats?
Speaker 1: I'm starting just one same conversation thread. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: go on to a new topic.
Speaker 2: Okay, so that would be what's confusing it. So it develops,
Speaker 2: its memory gets a little develops a little Alzheimer's for
Speaker 2: one of a better phrase after a certain period of time.
Speaker 2: And it's tough to distinguish the amount of time because
Speaker 2: it depends on whether you're asking it to create a
Speaker 2: bunch of documents that you're going to download, or graphs
Speaker 2: or videos or anything, or if you're just having a
Speaker 2: free flowing conversation. What I've found is that I will
Speaker 2: start different chats for different questions, and that keeps a
Speaker 2: bit of integrity around that particular sure memory.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just gets a concentrat on the thing you're asking.
Speaker 1: A lot of people are saying a lot of it's everywhere,
Speaker 1: worry about losing their jobs, lawyers, medical, practitioners at the
Speaker 1: GP level, for example, as opposed to surgeons, et cetera,
Speaker 1: where you've got to use your hands as accountants. It's everywhere.
Speaker 2: What do you say to that, I say, AI won't
Speaker 2: take your jobs. But the people who aren't prepared to
Speaker 2: lean into AI are in trouble, which means what means
Speaker 2: they're the ones that are going to lose their jobs.
Speaker 2: They need to they need to upscale, they need to
Speaker 2: at least get their head around what's going on at
Speaker 2: the moment. Interesting you talk about healthcare. I was just
Speaker 2: saying to Sammy before I came in that it launched
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, but it went actually live
Speaker 2: last week in China. There's now an AI hospital can
Speaker 2: treat ten thousand patients a day. Wow, was developed by
Speaker 2: one of the universities over there, and it is all
Speaker 2: AI driven. AI doctors, AI nurses, AI admin ten thousand
Speaker 2: patients a day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny you should say, because there was only
Speaker 1: thinking a few days ago and actually in this morning
Speaker 1: about mortgage broking industry, which I mean, I have a
Speaker 1: big mortage business. Ener I can see it sort of
Speaker 1: being AI driven at some stage and then AI you know,
Speaker 1: you might want a mortgage. You might be buying the
Speaker 1: house you just sold and they need to borrow some money,
Speaker 1: and you could go into whatever the protocol is and
Speaker 1: groat AI and that's your morge broker.
Speaker 2: I'm already working with a few brokers to do something
Speaker 2: similar agents because they've we've identified that different segments within
Speaker 2: the market may not necessarily want thettural person, yeah exactly,
Speaker 2: or they want to get to a certain point before
Speaker 2: they go, okay, well now I want to engage Mark
Speaker 2: and have a proper conversation. But maybe they're shift workers,
Speaker 2: maybe they're you know, for whatever reason, they want to
Speaker 2: do their due diligence unto a point. So we've been
Speaker 2: developing protocols for these people where yeah, you can just
Speaker 2: jump on and have it chat, but not just a
Speaker 2: type chat, like you can have a virtual conversation. So
Speaker 2: we're developing video AI like video avatars and voice avatars
Speaker 2: that are multilingual, you know, so it gets over that issue.
Speaker 1: And that's not hard for AI to do that, No,
Speaker 1: it's really easy.
Speaker 2: Exactly. It just comes down to and this is what
Speaker 2: I say to people now, like it's only limited by
Speaker 2: your imagination. So if you are concerned that AI could
Speaker 2: take your job, do something about it, like start to
Speaker 2: look into Okay, well, what don't I like about the
Speaker 2: job that I do now that I could outsource to AI?
Speaker 2: That's going to allow my skill set that I am
Speaker 2: really good at to be of more value to the
Speaker 2: organization or to my clients.
Speaker 1: That's very interesting. What are the things would you, apart
Speaker 1: from buying a book, would you offer as tips to
Speaker 1: business owners in relation to where official intelligence belongs in
Speaker 1: their business, for example, the coffee shop next door.
Speaker 2: You've just got to start having a play. So really,
Speaker 2: you know, just open AI Chat, GPT, Microsoft co Pilot,
Speaker 2: whatever your choice is. Just start having a play. And
Speaker 2: often it's about playing with something in your personal life
Speaker 2: as opposed to a business. So as an example, a
Speaker 2: couple of grand babies. So we write them Christmas book
Speaker 2: every year. So we just kind of put in the
Speaker 2: stuff that they've done through the year, and we let
Speaker 2: the system write a Christmas book and we put some
Speaker 2: photos to it.
Speaker 1: So you instructed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so THEO and Charlie, they're this age, they do this,
Speaker 2: They like going here, they hang out with mom and dad,
Speaker 2: you know, all that kind of stuff. It writes a book,
Speaker 2: we put some pictures to it, and you get a
Speaker 2: printed create. Yeah, we create a scavenger hunt. You know.
Speaker 2: We write the Christmas menu. So write Grandma her her
Speaker 2: a poem for her birthday. So just start having a
Speaker 2: play with it in a way that is non threatening
Speaker 2: or feels like it's not going to have an impact
Speaker 2: if it goes wrong. Right, And often people, particularly if
Speaker 2: their business owners, go, I can't do this yet, because
Speaker 2: what if it goes pair shaped? Okay, We'll play with
Speaker 2: something in your personal life that is non threatening. And
Speaker 2: then once you go, oh, okay, it's actually pretty good
Speaker 2: at that, Well, then what could that look like if
Speaker 2: you started using that in your business.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I do that. That's sort of where
Speaker 1: I started to and I started asking questions about I
Speaker 1: talked about politics at one stage because we just had
Speaker 1: some election. I started talking about health, and then then
Speaker 1: I started to open it up a little bit and
Speaker 1: just gradually doing things to try and try and beat
Speaker 1: the system sort of thing, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Just I want to see hell of those people, see
Speaker 1: how can I sort of get under its skin or
Speaker 1: can I do I know more about the topic than
Speaker 1: it knows. It's funny, you know. I asked one question
Speaker 1: about I said, well, but you just the answer you
Speaker 1: just gave me. Is there any scholarly articles on this?
Speaker 1: And I knew two scholarly articles on it, and they
Speaker 1: only gave me one of them. And I then said,
Speaker 1: what about Is there a scholar another scholarly article on this,
Speaker 1: like like more of an abstract, like a PhD s
Speaker 1: type thing, And I said no, but I knew that
Speaker 1: there was because I've got it, I've seen it, I've
Speaker 1: read it. And is that an example of hallucination?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Or it may not have picked up that information yet,
Speaker 2: depending on how how recent that abstract you had. Okay,
Speaker 2: then it's five years old. Yeah, then it's just trying
Speaker 2: to pull one over you. It does happen.
Speaker 1: Does it get lazy.
Speaker 2: Again? I think when it's doing the update to the
Speaker 2: new system, like I've had to. And it's the interesting
Speaker 2: that we notice this. But if you type in all.
Speaker 1: Caps, if you when you're putting in yeah.
Speaker 2: So if you type in all caps, that's considered yelling, right,
Speaker 2: not really? Yeah? So if you send it someone a
Speaker 2: text message in all caps or an email in all caps,
Speaker 2: that's considered that you're yelling at as aggressive. So if
Speaker 2: you type in all caps.
Speaker 1: It thinks you're being aggressive.
Speaker 2: And it will give you a better response. Oh really,
Speaker 2: Now do it over and over again and it will
Speaker 2: start to get pete off with you and it will
Speaker 2: go the other way. No, no, no, and they.
Speaker 1: So that's great, learn an emotion.
Speaker 2: But the thing that concerns me is the architects behind
Speaker 2: these systems don't know why it does that. So it's
Speaker 2: one thing to kind of go, oh, that's kind of cool,
Speaker 2: like the other one we know, on average, and this
Speaker 2: is a rough average, if you so please and thank
Speaker 2: you when you interact and you're polite, you will get
Speaker 2: on average about a forty percent better result. No, but
Speaker 2: they don't know why.
Speaker 1: That's freaking me out right.
Speaker 2: So they're the things that I kind of go, hey,
Speaker 2: that's really cool. But the thing that freaks me out
Speaker 2: is but they don't know why. They can't kind of
Speaker 2: go oh, it's because it is learning emotion or it
Speaker 2: is doing that. They don't know. That's the bit that
Speaker 2: I kind of go, so always so please and thank you, mark,
Speaker 2: because if the terminator does arrive, at least it will
Speaker 2: look at you and go oh, he was one of
Speaker 2: the nice ones.
Speaker 1: At least I may not believe or disbelieve, but at
Speaker 1: least I say a prayer and just in case there
Speaker 1: really is a guy up there waiting for me when
Speaker 1: I or a girl waiting for me up for me
Speaker 1: up there when I do kick the bucket, just like
Speaker 1: an insurance policy. Exactly, you're saying, insure yourself. We ensure
Speaker 1: ourselves anyway, that's a normal thing in business and in life.
Speaker 1: We take out insurances all the time. And that makes sense.
Speaker 1: And as long as it like there's all sorts of stories.
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, exactly so on insurances that and this is
Speaker 2: another one of this is just my my belief at
Speaker 2: the moment, I have no again, darted to back this up.
Speaker 2: I can't see that we will have professional indemnity insurance
Speaker 2: in the next two years. Why, well, think about it.
Speaker 2: How it proved to me that that advice you gave
Speaker 2: me was from market, So why would I ensure you
Speaker 2: for professional indemnity?
Speaker 1: You insurer, because you're not sure proved to me that.
Speaker 2: That was that was the human and not a chatbot
Speaker 2: that's gone off and given that piece of advice.
Speaker 1: How popular now? Like because right now, right now how popular,
Speaker 1: like in terms of popularity in terms of growth is
Speaker 1: the AI protocols like you know, chatchip, etcetera. How popular
Speaker 1: have they become?
Speaker 2: Crazy? So when chat GPT released and any person that
Speaker 2: owns a business would have loved their word of mouth
Speaker 2: because they were the fastest growing organization. So they hit
Speaker 2: the million within a couple of days or a couple
Speaker 2: of hour, twelve hours or something. But now there's like
Speaker 2: ten twenty million uses an hour an hour. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: it's crazy, crazy numbers. So the issue that we have
Speaker 2: currently and you mentioned video earlier, it's it's the compute
Speaker 2: power again. Right, that's the problem now, is that to
Speaker 2: make the next leap to AGI or you know this
Speaker 2: very specific general intelligence where we move towards the singularity
Speaker 2: and the ray curves wall stuff which probably needs wine
Speaker 2: or you know, a bigger conversation to move towards that,
Speaker 2: we need more computing power than we have currently. Right.
Speaker 2: But again I was saying to Sammy when we came in.
Speaker 2: I was just talking to the guys that I was
Speaker 2: with this morning and showing them a video. There's there's
Speaker 2: a company in Melbourne that are developing silicon based computer
Speaker 2: So off brain cells and skin cells. They're figuring out
Speaker 2: now that they can you can grow a laptop and
Speaker 2: compute wise far less energy to run them, but exponential
Speaker 2: growth in a very very small space. So that I
Speaker 2: think is the leap that needs to happen before we
Speaker 2: can make the next really big tech leaves.
Speaker 1: And the big and probably the most for me anyway,
Speaker 1: one of the most exciting but at the same time
Speaker 1: scary developments, will be once quantum computing actually becomes a
Speaker 1: thing as opposed to supercomputers which we have now, but
Speaker 1: actual quantum computing, when it's actually up and running, maybe
Speaker 1: ten years or whatever time it's going to be doing,
Speaker 1: the outcomes are going to be so ridiculously fast and.
Speaker 2: Will need it. Like if this silicon based computing kicks off,
Speaker 2: it technically could overtake the concept of quantum computing pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: So UNI of New South Wales and doing some really
Speaker 2: interesting stuff with quantum computing. But then you combine it
Speaker 2: with what's going on in Victoria. I reckon if the
Speaker 2: two of them sat down and had a drink, like,
Speaker 2: you know, you want to look at where you're going
Speaker 2: to invest your cash, I'd be looking at some of
Speaker 2: those companies, because I think that's really interesting if they
Speaker 2: actually sat around a table and figured some stuff out.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sometimes I think to myself, given my age,
Speaker 1: I think to myself, do I really care about all
Speaker 1: this sort of stuff? And I noticed some you have
Speaker 1: a bit of a quirky pastime yourself. Is that like
Speaker 1: a complete reaction to the world you live in terms
Speaker 1: of business? And maybe you should say, tell us what
Speaker 1: one of your past song is with your dogs and
Speaker 1: the caravan I think it is or something.
Speaker 2: So I just mentioned that we've sold our house, so
Speaker 2: I'm becoming a full time digital nomade, So I am.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing, by the way, that's not something
Speaker 1: you just made up.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. Yeah. Yeah, I average around two hundred
Speaker 2: days on the road seeing clients and things, and it
Speaker 2: was becoming more of a hassle for me to get
Speaker 2: back to a home base. So fortunately my hobby works
Speaker 2: in our business as well, and we're just like, all right,
Speaker 2: why if not now when? So we went to a
Speaker 2: caravan show on our anniversary and bought ourselves a caravan
Speaker 2: and it arrives about two weeks after We've got to
Speaker 2: be out of the house. So fortunately, I'll be in
Speaker 2: cans at a conference and he'll have to deal with
Speaker 2: being homeless for a couple of a couple of weeks,
Speaker 2: but that's okay, and then we're just going to hit
Speaker 2: the road and go wherever the work is taking us.
Speaker 1: So that's sort of amazing. But it's also sort of
Speaker 1: counterintuitive to what you do because you're living in a
Speaker 1: caravan with a couple of dogs in your hobby and
Speaker 1: you just drive around and at old schooled towing a
Speaker 1: caravan in the back of a car, but you live
Speaker 1: in this sort of super complicated advance world of artificial intelligence.
Speaker 2: I have better Internet in my caravan than I do
Speaker 2: at home.
Speaker 1: Do you have a Skyling on top? Starlin on top?
Speaker 1: I should see you.
Speaker 2: And we've we've pimped out the van, so it's it's
Speaker 2: all IoT. So it's got all you know. We just
Speaker 2: opened the phone and it'll unlock the doors and switch
Speaker 2: the lights on and I can check the temperature for
Speaker 2: the dogs with the air conn and all the rest
Speaker 2: of it. So no, we're not we're not doing without.
Speaker 2: And I think it's it's the big thing for me.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're well, I'm going to share
Speaker 2: my age here Slim Dusty back in the day. How
Speaker 2: he developed his community and his following was him and
Speaker 2: his wife and the kids, road on the road. And
Speaker 2: a lot of the places I go to is regional Australia.
Speaker 2: They don't get good quality education, so who do they
Speaker 2: know who to trust and where to start. So if
Speaker 2: I can get out there with a van and spend
Speaker 2: a week hanging out with the people in long Reach
Speaker 2: or murm Ba or Hobar or wherever, I don't care,
Speaker 2: it's a great They're great people.
Speaker 1: Well that's that's sort of like the best of every world.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and get to have a chat with you.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Do you get to see all of this
Speaker 1: wonderful country at the same time using all the.
Speaker 2: Tech, yeah, and bringing it and showing it in real time.
Speaker 2: How it's going to make a difference to their business
Speaker 2: Because you can't look at me across the table if
Speaker 2: I'm sitting with you in long Reach and say, oh
Speaker 2: but I can't. Now hang on a minute, mate, I
Speaker 2: am sitting here with you with my five g wirelers
Speaker 2: and I am doing everything I need to do with
Speaker 2: my business, from accounting to marketing to everything.
Speaker 1: So don't give me that this is on real show.
Speaker 1: Here it is.
Speaker 2: Let's open that laptop up and get over that technophobia
Speaker 2: and get on with it.
Speaker 1: Hopefully you fill your card with your book here it
Speaker 1: is right here and Tracy Sheen, it has been a
Speaker 1: real pleasure, very interesting, and I feel as though you're
Speaker 1: the sort of person that people should be employing to
Speaker 1: go and do talks at conventions and conferences and things
Speaker 1: like that and just filling their minds up with what
Speaker 1: could happen, what could be in terms of a bet
Speaker 1: of a life.
Speaker 2: We should take it on the road. Mark, we'll go
Speaker 2: as a duo.
Speaker 1: I love Sydney, but give me a couple more years
Speaker 1: and just just pave the way and I'll come and
Speaker 1: join you.
Speaker 2: We only do the surfing spot, so it's okay.
Speaker 1: I'm happy to go Inland. I like Inland. I love Inland.
Speaker 1: I do love Inland, you know, like some mount eyes
Speaker 1: and those places that are I believed. I remember many
Speaker 1: years ago to go to Mantas because we a broking
Speaker 1: branch there and we don't anymore, but I thought it
Speaker 1: was amazing, Like man was an amazing place. I remember
Speaker 1: I stayed in this hotel and I was sleeping upstairs,
Speaker 1: and about maybe ten o'clock at night, I heard a
Speaker 1: bit of a noise downstairs and went downstairs. And people
Speaker 1: are going to get really upset with this, but I
Speaker 1: saw the best pub rule I've ever seen. Just it
Speaker 1: was just a broad because the place is a wild place,
Speaker 1: like and I just stood there in the corner and
Speaker 1: just watched the guys get thrown out of the joint
Speaker 1: and like it was, it was mental. It was like
Speaker 1: a like a real version of UFC with no rules.
Speaker 1: It was so good. I love those joints. I love
Speaker 1: That's Australia. Thanks so much, Trace, that was awesome.