1 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:07,020 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:07,110 --> 00:00:10,709 Sean Aylmer: The labour market in Australia is still very tight. There's 3 00:00:10,710 --> 00:00:13,619 Sean Aylmer: a lot of competition to find the best staff, and 4 00:00:13,650 --> 00:00:16,409 Sean Aylmer: when you've got them, the pressure is on to retain them. 5 00:00:16,709 --> 00:00:18,780 Sean Aylmer: So it helps to know what people are actually looking 6 00:00:18,780 --> 00:00:20,939 Sean Aylmer: for in a job because that in turn lets you 7 00:00:20,940 --> 00:00:25,290 Sean Aylmer: create more targeted, more appealing job ads. Job site SEEK 8 00:00:25,350 --> 00:00:29,310 Sean Aylmer: has a very handy tool called the Laws Of Attraction portal. 9 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,400 Sean Aylmer: It's based on an ongoing survey of thousands of Australians 10 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,759 Sean Aylmer: that revealing exactly what would attract them to a role. 11 00:00:35,969 --> 00:00:39,000 Sean Aylmer: Caroline North is SEEK's research manager for the Laws Of 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,809 Sean Aylmer: Attraction survey. SEEK, of course, is a great supporter of this podcast. Caroline, 13 00:00:43,050 --> 00:00:44,489 Sean Aylmer: welcome to Fear and Greed. 14 00:00:45,030 --> 00:00:46,440 Caroline North: Thanks, Sean. It's great to be here. 15 00:00:46,979 --> 00:00:50,729 Sean Aylmer: Cracking name, Laws Of Attraction survey. Tell me, how does 16 00:00:50,729 --> 00:00:51,510 Sean Aylmer: the portal work? 17 00:00:51,929 --> 00:00:56,040 Caroline North: Yes. So Laws Of Attraction is a study that looks 18 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,330 Caroline North: at what motivates people to apply for a new job. 19 00:01:00,330 --> 00:01:02,460 Caroline North: What is it that they are looking for when they're 20 00:01:02,460 --> 00:01:05,580 Caroline North: considering their next role or their next company that they 21 00:01:05,580 --> 00:01:08,310 Caroline North: want to join and that they want to apply to? 22 00:01:08,549 --> 00:01:12,690 Caroline North: So the Laws Of Attraction portal is a database that 23 00:01:12,690 --> 00:01:15,810 Caroline North: houses all the information that we collate from this study 24 00:01:16,170 --> 00:01:21,630 Caroline North: and serves it up to organizations, hirers, small businesses in 25 00:01:21,630 --> 00:01:24,659 Caroline North: a way that makes it really easy to digest and 26 00:01:24,660 --> 00:01:27,929 Caroline North: prioritize the types of information that they need to focus 27 00:01:27,929 --> 00:01:31,620 Caroline North: on when communicating so that they can attract the best 28 00:01:31,620 --> 00:01:34,200 Caroline North: talent and the top talent for their organizations. 29 00:01:34,980 --> 00:01:37,470 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So let's get into some of the findings from 30 00:01:37,470 --> 00:01:39,090 Sean Aylmer: it. And I mean, the great thing about this is 31 00:01:39,090 --> 00:01:41,369 Sean Aylmer: it's an ongoing survey, isn't it? So it's not a 32 00:01:41,370 --> 00:01:45,120 Sean Aylmer: static product, it actually shows how things change. You've got 33 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,329 Sean Aylmer: access to huge amounts of information. Is it all about work- 34 00:01:48,330 --> 00:01:49,350 Sean Aylmer: life balance or not? 35 00:01:50,070 --> 00:01:52,260 Caroline North: Yeah, that's a great question and especially when we think 36 00:01:52,260 --> 00:01:55,320 Caroline North: about over the last 10, 12 years that we've been running 37 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,139 Caroline North: this survey and we see the changes in the shifts 38 00:01:58,139 --> 00:02:02,100 Caroline North: in what people are saying is important. So we've identified 39 00:02:02,429 --> 00:02:05,580 Caroline North: 12 drivers, if you like. So 12 buckets of information 40 00:02:05,580 --> 00:02:07,680 Caroline North: that people might be looking at, and one of those 41 00:02:07,710 --> 00:02:13,169 Caroline North: is work-life balance. And over the last 10 to 12 years, we've 42 00:02:13,169 --> 00:02:17,608 Caroline North: seen actually a relatively stable focus on what they're prioritising. 43 00:02:17,610 --> 00:02:22,979 Caroline North: So typically pre -pandemic, the focus was really about salary 44 00:02:22,980 --> 00:02:27,809 Caroline North: and compensation, work-life balance and career development opportunities. So basically 45 00:02:27,810 --> 00:02:31,230 Caroline North: that means if you are trying to attract someone into 46 00:02:31,230 --> 00:02:34,260 Caroline North: your company, make sure you're talking about those three things 47 00:02:34,260 --> 00:02:38,820 Caroline North: within your job ads, within your employment branding. Now, of course, 48 00:02:38,940 --> 00:02:43,079 Caroline North: we had a massive disruption when the pandemic hit. And 49 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,430 Caroline North: interestingly just before the pandemic, we were doing quite a 50 00:02:47,430 --> 00:02:50,070 Caroline North: big project here at SEEK to understand what it is 51 00:02:50,070 --> 00:02:53,429 Caroline North: to have a productive and fulfilling working life. So we 52 00:02:53,429 --> 00:02:56,340 Caroline North: were speaking to a number of thinkers from all over 53 00:02:56,340 --> 00:02:59,609 Caroline North: the world, different industries, different aspects, and one of them 54 00:02:59,609 --> 00:03:03,389 Caroline North: that we spoke to really highlighted for us that over 55 00:03:03,389 --> 00:03:07,320 Caroline North: the last a hundred years, not much had changed in 56 00:03:07,650 --> 00:03:11,280 Caroline North: why we work, what we're looking for, what our motivations are. 57 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,469 Caroline North: And in fact, not since the invention of the light 58 00:03:13,469 --> 00:03:16,829 Caroline North: bulb had we really seen much change. So this stability 59 00:03:16,829 --> 00:03:19,919 Caroline North: that we'd seen in the data pre -pandemic was really 60 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,880 Caroline North: to be expected and it correlates something that we think 61 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,358 Caroline North: about as Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So our need for survival, 62 00:03:27,719 --> 00:03:31,200 Caroline North: putting food on the table, keeping a roof over our head, 63 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,309 Caroline North: that's that salary and compensation piece. Our need for work-life balance, 64 00:03:35,309 --> 00:03:38,250 Caroline North: so that's the ability to manage our home lives, our 65 00:03:38,250 --> 00:03:42,750 Caroline North: family lives, our relationships with our friends and communities. And 66 00:03:42,750 --> 00:03:45,780 Caroline North: then the career development aspect, which is that kind of 67 00:03:45,780 --> 00:03:51,539 Caroline North: personal growth, the opportunity for self-growth and having a look at that career development. Now, 68 00:03:51,809 --> 00:03:53,789 Caroline North: when we were doing this work and looking into it, 69 00:03:54,780 --> 00:03:57,570 Caroline North: the conversations around what would be a big disruptor, and 70 00:03:57,780 --> 00:04:01,080 Caroline North: this was just before the pandemic, just before the fires, 71 00:04:01,350 --> 00:04:04,980 Caroline North: and really the sense was it would be a big 72 00:04:04,980 --> 00:04:08,370 Caroline North: environmental impact would change our priorities around what we want 73 00:04:08,370 --> 00:04:10,980 Caroline North: to do and where we want to do it, or 74 00:04:10,980 --> 00:04:14,820 Caroline North: things like big health impacts would have an impact on 75 00:04:14,850 --> 00:04:17,070 Caroline North: why we wanted to do, so big health scares and 76 00:04:17,070 --> 00:04:19,350 Caroline North: that sort of thing. And of course we basically went 77 00:04:19,350 --> 00:04:23,190 Caroline North: into that. And our data reflected that we saw a 78 00:04:23,190 --> 00:04:27,269 Caroline North: change in people's priorities. So when we were in the pandemic, 79 00:04:27,330 --> 00:04:30,870 Caroline North: everything got very, very pointy. Salary and compensation and work-life 80 00:04:31,230 --> 00:04:34,290 Caroline North: balance really rose to the top of our focus. It 81 00:04:34,290 --> 00:04:37,380 Caroline North: was over 50% of our attention. And our need for 82 00:04:37,380 --> 00:04:43,200 Caroline North: information was focused specifically around salary and compensation and work- life balance. Now, 83 00:04:43,559 --> 00:04:47,280 Caroline North: since the pandemic, what we've seen is quite a shift 84 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,779 Caroline North: back to work-life balance, salary and compensation still at the 85 00:04:51,779 --> 00:04:53,609 Caroline North: number one and two, but we're seeing a shift now 86 00:04:53,610 --> 00:04:58,260 Caroline North: where work-life balance is actually the number one driver of attraction. 87 00:04:58,860 --> 00:05:01,649 Caroline North: And when we look into the detail behind that and 88 00:05:01,650 --> 00:05:03,539 Caroline North: we look at that period of time for the last 89 00:05:03,540 --> 00:05:06,420 Caroline North: 10 years, we really see that the big shift here 90 00:05:06,420 --> 00:05:08,850 Caroline North: is that work- life balance is no longer a gender 91 00:05:08,850 --> 00:05:09,810 Caroline North: led story. 92 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,350 Sean Aylmer: So just before we get into the breakdown of gender, 93 00:05:13,350 --> 00:05:15,900 Sean Aylmer: because I'm interested, is work- life balance another way of 94 00:05:15,900 --> 00:05:17,128 Sean Aylmer: saying flexible hours? 95 00:05:17,849 --> 00:05:20,428 Caroline North: Absolutely. Flexibility is one part of it. But the great 96 00:05:20,428 --> 00:05:22,949 Caroline North: thing about the portal, if you dive in under work- 97 00:05:22,949 --> 00:05:25,380 Caroline North: life balance, there are a number of different options and 98 00:05:25,380 --> 00:05:27,359 Caroline North: ways that you can look at work-life balance. So work- 99 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,690 Caroline North: life balance means flexibility to some people, maybe it's about 100 00:05:30,690 --> 00:05:34,139 Caroline North: working part-time or getting additional leave, it's having time in lieu. 101 00:05:34,139 --> 00:05:38,849 Caroline North: So flexibility can really incorporate a number of different factors. 102 00:05:38,849 --> 00:05:41,699 Caroline North: Where do I work? When am I working? There's no 103 00:05:41,699 --> 00:05:44,850 Caroline North: one size fits all for work-life balance. 104 00:05:45,210 --> 00:05:48,178 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So back to gender, has it changed? I mean, 105 00:05:48,750 --> 00:05:53,520 Sean Aylmer: I'm guessing that males are more likely to be more 106 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,949 Sean Aylmer: focused on work-life balance than they were previously. 107 00:05:56,580 --> 00:06:00,389 Caroline North: Yeah, that is exactly right. So we're now seeing that 108 00:06:00,510 --> 00:06:05,190 Caroline North: males are placing comparable amounts of importance relative to the 109 00:06:05,190 --> 00:06:07,589 Caroline North: other things that they want to know about in relation 110 00:06:07,589 --> 00:06:10,770 Caroline North: to women. Whereas before it was always about salary and compensation, 111 00:06:11,339 --> 00:06:14,940 Caroline North: prioritising over work-life balance. And I think that's the reflection. 112 00:06:15,389 --> 00:06:17,609 Caroline North: There's probably a number of factors at play is the 113 00:06:17,609 --> 00:06:21,539 Caroline North: experience through the pandemic where the home life became everybody's life, 114 00:06:21,570 --> 00:06:25,140 Caroline North: not just a gendered role, which still typically plays out. 115 00:06:25,410 --> 00:06:29,219 Caroline North: I mean, we have ever increasing levels of female participation 116 00:06:29,219 --> 00:06:33,839 Caroline North: in the workforce. So we're at our highest levels of female participation, 117 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:39,450 Caroline North: over 62% in Australia, and we're moving into generations moving 118 00:06:39,510 --> 00:06:42,029 Caroline North: in and out of the workforce. So generations that have 119 00:06:42,029 --> 00:06:45,570 Caroline North: only ever grown up with women working in the workforce 120 00:06:45,599 --> 00:06:49,409 Caroline North: and having roles at home. And the pandemic, putting that 121 00:06:49,410 --> 00:06:52,109 Caroline North: pressure onto home life and work life and bringing it 122 00:06:52,109 --> 00:06:56,070 Caroline North: all together made it an everybody experience, not just a 123 00:06:56,070 --> 00:06:57,390 Caroline North: female experience. 124 00:06:57,810 --> 00:07:00,029 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Caroline. We'll be back in a minute. 125 00:07:06,210 --> 00:07:10,109 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Caroline North from SEEK. Okay. 126 00:07:10,109 --> 00:07:13,080 Sean Aylmer: So if I'm an employer and I now know that work- 127 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:17,700 Sean Aylmer: life balance is pretty much established as a key factor 128 00:07:18,090 --> 00:07:22,769 Sean Aylmer: in attracting staff and retaining staff, how do I write 129 00:07:22,770 --> 00:07:23,970 Sean Aylmer: a job ad, for example? 130 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,869 Caroline North: Absolutely. So you've got to have all of your basic 131 00:07:27,870 --> 00:07:32,100 Caroline North: information in your job ad to be able to communicate 132 00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:33,570 Caroline North: what the role is. But you've really got to think 133 00:07:33,570 --> 00:07:36,810 Caroline North: about at what points in time are you communicating your 134 00:07:36,810 --> 00:07:39,659 Caroline North: job ads. So it doesn't just happen when you place 135 00:07:39,660 --> 00:07:41,700 Caroline North: it on SEEK, obviously that's a really important part. But 136 00:07:41,700 --> 00:07:43,590 Caroline North: even when you place it on SEEK, there are two 137 00:07:43,650 --> 00:07:46,920 Caroline North: components of that placement. There's a summary, a job ad summary, 138 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,560 Caroline North: which will be served up to a candidate, to a 139 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,400 Caroline North: job seeker, sorry. There's also the full job ad. So 140 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,460 Caroline North: you really want to prioritise in your job ad the 141 00:07:56,460 --> 00:08:00,300 Caroline North: most important information that candidates are telling you. And that's 142 00:08:00,300 --> 00:08:02,489 Caroline North: where going into the portal and finding out what are 143 00:08:02,490 --> 00:08:05,190 Caroline North: their top three drivers say, and making sure that you've 144 00:08:05,190 --> 00:08:09,240 Caroline North: got messages in there that talk to be it work-life balance, 145 00:08:09,330 --> 00:08:12,600 Caroline North: be it salary and compensation, be it the management and 146 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,330 Caroline North: culture of the management in the organization or the overall 147 00:08:15,330 --> 00:08:20,969 Caroline North: working environment, for example. But customise them. Don't just have 148 00:08:20,969 --> 00:08:25,950 Caroline North: the generic one size fits all comment. Talk about it 149 00:08:25,950 --> 00:08:29,190 Caroline North: in your terms, how it relates to your organisation, how 150 00:08:29,190 --> 00:08:30,240 Caroline North: it relates to your job. 151 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,050 Sean Aylmer: And does that split... And I'm going to be attacked 152 00:08:34,050 --> 00:08:38,399 Sean Aylmer: by salespeople here, but if you are advertising a sales 153 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,689 Sean Aylmer: role where remuneration may be more important... I am going 154 00:08:42,690 --> 00:08:44,250 Sean Aylmer: to get attacked for saying that, however, I'm going to 155 00:08:44,250 --> 00:08:47,970 Sean Aylmer: say it anyway. In that instance, maybe you put the 156 00:08:48,059 --> 00:08:52,290 Sean Aylmer: wage in the job ad, whereas in another area, in 157 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,879 Sean Aylmer: charity maybe, where remuneration may not be as important. Is 158 00:08:57,030 --> 00:08:58,890 Sean Aylmer: that what you're talking about, breaking it up like that? 159 00:08:58,890 --> 00:09:02,340 Caroline North: To an extent, yes. I think you hit on something really important, 160 00:09:02,340 --> 00:09:05,100 Caroline North: especially when you talk about salary and compensation and it's 161 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:08,338 Caroline North: actually talking about salary and compensation and saying these things 162 00:09:08,340 --> 00:09:11,280 Caroline North: are a priority isn't just about saying I want more. 163 00:09:11,910 --> 00:09:14,130 Caroline North: It's about I want to be able to have the conversation. 164 00:09:14,429 --> 00:09:16,830 Caroline North: I want to have the transparency. I want to be 165 00:09:16,830 --> 00:09:19,230 Caroline North: working in an organisation where I know, for example, that 166 00:09:19,590 --> 00:09:23,250 Caroline North: salary and conversation, there's regular review periods that actually this 167 00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:25,710 Caroline North: is something that we can talk about on a regular basis. 168 00:09:25,740 --> 00:09:29,250 Caroline North: I mean, everybody would love more. And the thing about 169 00:09:29,250 --> 00:09:31,139 Caroline North: attraction is that really what we're trying to do is 170 00:09:31,139 --> 00:09:35,219 Caroline North: tell all our good points, but as consumers of information, 171 00:09:35,219 --> 00:09:37,710 Caroline North: we just can't take in that level of information at 172 00:09:37,710 --> 00:09:39,390 Caroline North: any one time. So what we're trying to do is 173 00:09:39,390 --> 00:09:44,430 Caroline North: help hirers and help organizations focus on those key messages. 174 00:09:44,670 --> 00:09:49,410 Caroline North: So doing it in a way that allows them to 175 00:09:49,410 --> 00:09:52,859 Caroline North: really focus on what's going to motivate someone. Now, someone 176 00:09:52,859 --> 00:09:57,270 Caroline North: in sales and someone in community services say they both 177 00:09:57,270 --> 00:10:00,510 Caroline North: want to know how they can get the best out 178 00:10:00,510 --> 00:10:03,120 Caroline North: of their salary and compensation packages and what the culture 179 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,790 Caroline North: of the organisation is like to be talking about salary 180 00:10:05,790 --> 00:10:06,689 Caroline North: and compensation. 181 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,540 Sean Aylmer: You sort of hinted at career development as well. Is 182 00:10:09,540 --> 00:10:10,290 Sean Aylmer: that a big thing? 183 00:10:11,129 --> 00:10:14,850 Caroline North: Yeah, so this is very interesting in the data. So 184 00:10:14,850 --> 00:10:18,300 Caroline North: up until pandemic, absolutely, career development was always number three. 185 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,270 Caroline North: And I'm sure, as you can imagine, Sean, that there 186 00:10:21,270 --> 00:10:24,179 Caroline North: was more of a focus in those early generations coming 187 00:10:24,179 --> 00:10:27,900 Caroline North: through and less of a focus on career development as 188 00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:32,400 Caroline North: you are nearing the end of your career. So there's 189 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,230 Caroline North: a trade off, all of these elements are a trade 190 00:10:34,230 --> 00:10:37,440 Caroline North: off. But career development had a really healthy sitting at 191 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,338 Caroline North: number three. But when the pandemic happened, what we saw 192 00:10:41,340 --> 00:10:43,799 Caroline North: was that career development started to drop off in terms 193 00:10:43,799 --> 00:10:46,738 Caroline North: of focus and what we're seeing in this post pandemic, it's 194 00:10:46,740 --> 00:10:48,630 Caroline North: actually that to an extent, people are much more focused 195 00:10:48,630 --> 00:10:51,809 Caroline North: on the here and now, about what's my work right 196 00:10:51,809 --> 00:10:54,780 Caroline North: here, right now. And we're not seeing that same demand within 197 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,170 Caroline North: this point in time for people to be focusing on 198 00:10:58,170 --> 00:11:01,348 Caroline North: the career development opportunities. Now, that's not to say that 199 00:11:01,349 --> 00:11:04,410 Caroline North: at another point in an employee life cycle, now we're 200 00:11:04,410 --> 00:11:08,400 Caroline North: just talking attraction. There's also engagement and retention. Now, once 201 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,490 Caroline North: you've got people in your organization, career development might be 202 00:11:11,490 --> 00:11:15,330 Caroline North: a very strong conversation to keep that motivated person that 203 00:11:15,330 --> 00:11:17,819 Caroline North: you've managed to get into your company, within your company 204 00:11:17,820 --> 00:11:20,789 Caroline North: and growing in your company and adding value to them 205 00:11:20,790 --> 00:11:22,439 Caroline North: and getting them to add value back into your organization. 206 00:11:22,469 --> 00:11:27,510 Sean Aylmer: Okay, final question. The labor market's hot right now, we 207 00:11:27,510 --> 00:11:29,880 Sean Aylmer: all know that. How should employers use the Laws Of 208 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,780 Sean Aylmer: Attraction data to kind of set themselves apart from their 209 00:11:33,780 --> 00:11:37,380 Sean Aylmer: competitors or other businesses trying to attract the same workers? 210 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,570 Caroline North: Yeah, absolutely. So it's a great opportunity to differentiate by 211 00:11:42,570 --> 00:11:45,838 Caroline North: using the portal, identifying the data, and then doing a 212 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,620 Caroline North: reflection internally in your organization and saying, "What do we 213 00:11:49,620 --> 00:11:54,120 Caroline North: offer for these elements?" So if it's work- life balance 214 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,479 Caroline North: or career development, or what's the culture of the management? 215 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,328 Caroline North: How do we communicate that? When do we communicate that? 216 00:12:00,330 --> 00:12:04,530 Caroline North: So really getting tight and identifying is there an opportunity 217 00:12:04,530 --> 00:12:07,620 Caroline North: for us to talk to what we're doing? Then looking 218 00:12:07,620 --> 00:12:10,860 Caroline North: at it strategically and saying, "Is there an opportunity for 219 00:12:10,860 --> 00:12:13,530 Caroline North: us to do things that we're not already focused on 220 00:12:13,530 --> 00:12:17,880 Caroline North: that would be meaningful to the marketplace?" And then getting 221 00:12:18,029 --> 00:12:20,880 Caroline North: very pointy within each job ad and with each hiring 222 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,790 Caroline North: manager and working through all the interactions and saying, "Do 223 00:12:23,790 --> 00:12:27,000 Caroline North: we talk a consistent story that supports the focus on 224 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,609 Caroline North: the right messages at the right time?" 225 00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:32,370 Sean Aylmer: Caroline, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 226 00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:33,449 Caroline North: Thank you, Sean. 227 00:12:34,170 --> 00:12:37,199 Sean Aylmer: That was Caroline North, SEEK's Research Manager, for the Laws 228 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,570 Sean Aylmer: Of Attraction survey. It's well worth a look. SEEK is, 229 00:12:39,570 --> 00:12:42,090 Sean Aylmer: of course, a great supporter of this podcast. This is 230 00:12:42,090 --> 00:12:44,220 Sean Aylmer: the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join us every morning 231 00:12:44,220 --> 00:12:46,439 Sean Aylmer: for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most 232 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,649 Sean Aylmer: popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Have a great day.