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Speaker 1: I get eight champs.

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Speaker 2: It's Bobby, it's young Bobby and craiggo here at me,

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Speaker 2: Central typ Central, just doing.

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Speaker 1: What we do. It's what is it? It's I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I tell everybody you probably don't give a fuck, but

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Speaker 1: just in case you do. It's Thursday.

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Speaker 2: As I record this, it's twelve eight on the twenty

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Speaker 2: month of the month, twenty ninth of the month known

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Speaker 2: as January. It is the twenty eighth right now where

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Speaker 2: Robert is and it's twenty one degrees in Melbourne, which

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Speaker 2: is way better than the forty sixth we had the

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Speaker 2: other day.

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Speaker 1: Hi mate, how are you?

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Speaker 3: Eh?

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Speaker 4: How's it going? Happy to hear you have a more favorable, favorable, favorable,

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Speaker 4: favorable weather pattern. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What is favorable exactly?

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Speaker 2: Is that like femoral or ephemeral or theorial weather.

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Speaker 4: The weather pattern is so much more favorable than it

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Speaker 4: has been. You're excited about it. You have great feavor

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Speaker 4: toward the weather pattern.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, jot that down, everybody. There'll be a test

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Speaker 1: at the end.

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Speaker 2: What are you up to on your Wednesday night over

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Speaker 2: there in the bloody us of A Because, by the way,

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Speaker 2: from the outside looking in, it seems that not much

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Speaker 2: is going on over there. It seems pretty quiet, business

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Speaker 2: as usual no here, Yeah, yeah, nothing peaceful, everything's great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, no, it seems that way, so good luck

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Speaker 2: with that. Do you try to keep your head down?

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Speaker 2: Do you keep your head up ever alert?

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Speaker 1: Or do you? How do you? Because there is a

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Speaker 1: lot going on.

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Speaker 2: Of course we're being facetious and we'll get to our

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Speaker 2: topic at hand in a moment, but how do you

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Speaker 2: mentally and emotionally somebody who gets a bit anxious from

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Speaker 2: time to time, as you've shared on the show, and

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Speaker 2: who has a propensity to overthink, how do you navigate

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Speaker 2: that personally?

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Speaker 4: Well? I do keep my head down mostly when I'm crying,

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Speaker 4: but other than that, I try to focus on what

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Speaker 4: needs to be done today and for who and why.

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Speaker 4: And I'm not saying I'm always effective at that, especially

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Speaker 4: now where social media. It's like Jesus, I haven't checked

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Speaker 4: social media in a few hours, like is there still

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Speaker 4: a world out there outside of my building, outside of

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Speaker 4: my office? And I find myself going back into doom

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Speaker 4: scrolling quite a bit, to be fair, So I don't

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Speaker 4: know if I'm really handling it well. But what does

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Speaker 4: help me is if I have a meeting or I'm

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Speaker 4: working on a project now that I feel quite serious about,

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Speaker 4: and to focus single mindedly on that and try to

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Speaker 4: lose myself. That gets me out of my head. That

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Speaker 4: eliminates distractions for a bit. You know, if if I'm

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Speaker 4: looking directly in one direction, what of the way can

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Speaker 4: you look in one direction? Indirectly looking in one direction?

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Speaker 4: But anyway, if I'm if I'm focused on one direction,

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Speaker 4: it kind of blinds me from all the other things

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Speaker 4: of my periphery that will grab my attention in a

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Speaker 4: non constructive way, so to speak.

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Speaker 2: It feels like potentially the dumbest advice and the most

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Speaker 2: common and dumbest advice simultaneously in the history of human

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Speaker 2: behavior and psychology and sociology is when we tell worried

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Speaker 2: people not to worry, which is as useful as telling

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Speaker 2: a tall person not to be tall. As I've said

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Speaker 2: before on this show, because everyone's worried, including me at

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Speaker 2: some stage about something. I'm going through some stuff with

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Speaker 2: my mum and dad, which is for them right now

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Speaker 2: pretty uncomfortable and disconcerting. It's just to change. They're eighty

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Speaker 2: six blah blah blah, and I realize sitting with them,

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Speaker 2: loving them, listening to them, trying to understand them even

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Speaker 2: when they're their anxiety or fear or apprehension is a

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Speaker 2: nine out of ten about something that I think warrants

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Speaker 2: is zero. I know that me going hey there isn't

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Speaker 2: actually a problem. The problem is you're thinking. I know

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Speaker 2: that that doesn't help, and I know that although the

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Speaker 2: story might be bullshit, the experience that they're having is

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Speaker 2: very real.

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Speaker 1: Right, So how do you like when you're fearful or

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Speaker 1: you're worried, or you start to elevate?

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Speaker 2: Do you have a particular strategy? Because I think this

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Speaker 2: is everyone listening. Everyone listening goes well there. I want

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Speaker 2: to know the answer to this, because fuck, I worry

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Speaker 2: about fucking everything or a lot of things, and it

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter how much I worry, It doesn't change the outcome.

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Speaker 1: And I know that intellectually but nonetheless emotionally, this is

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Speaker 1: my response.

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Speaker 4: If I can. Because your environment has a lot to

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Speaker 4: do with this, I find it helps to move to

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Speaker 4: change my environment, get from one place to a completely

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Speaker 4: different place. Walk start Like if you are someone who

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Speaker 4: is out and about between meetings your workday, you're running

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Speaker 4: an errand, like, get that movement in I mean movement,

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Speaker 4: it's really effective. You know, eat, you're on nature eoretic

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Speaker 4: pabtize or release from the heart when you move, and

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Speaker 4: that mitigates stress hormone levels on the body. It decreases quarters,

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Speaker 4: all levels. Very effective if you're somewhere where you can

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Speaker 4: run an errand and just park a little bit further

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Speaker 4: from that. I mean, it sounds so cheesy, but it's

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Speaker 4: not changing your body, changing your physiology. Moving you know,

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Speaker 4: rather briskly with a sense of purpose helps me enormously.

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Speaker 1: That's so true, dude, And I know you're right, it does.

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Speaker 2: It sounds cheesy, it sounds cliche, it sounds repetitive, but nonetheless,

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Speaker 2: many people I'm not talking about necessarily our listeners. I'm

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Speaker 2: sure a percentage from time to time, but just don't

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Speaker 2: do that thing like I remember. At the end of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, the University of South Australia came out

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Speaker 2: with the results which were splashed all over the media

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Speaker 2: for about eight minutes of a study comparing medication for depression.

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Speaker 1: To exercise.

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Speaker 2: So one one group of people dealing with depression suffering

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Speaker 2: from depression. However, we want to word it, frame it.

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Speaker 2: They did a ten week I think it was ten week.

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Speaker 2: You can look it up everybody. It might have the

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Speaker 2: numbers wrong, but ten week intervention of exercise and versus

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Speaker 2: no exercise, plus you know, the normal kind of pharmaceutical approach.

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Speaker 2: And obviously know what I'm going to tell you. The

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Speaker 2: people who took no medication but exercise consistently, consistently and

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Speaker 2: appropriately for.

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Speaker 1: Them where they were.

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Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't all everyone doing the same program,

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Speaker 2: but they're doing the right program for them. It outperformed

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Speaker 2: the medication by one hundred and fifty plus percent, right,

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Speaker 2: And we go, oh, that's fucking amazing. And then nobody

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Speaker 2: takes it up. Everyone just goes, yeah, look at that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I finally I wonder, I wonder why. I wonder why

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Speaker 4: that is. And what we're not saying is if you

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Speaker 4: are on prescribe medication, like just start exercising and start

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Speaker 4: taking you prescribe mads. We are not saying that, And

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Speaker 4: we're not saying if you're in therapy exercises a substitute.

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Speaker 4: What we are saying is it's definitely something that you

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Speaker 4: can do in conjunction to quite an afficacious effect.

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Speaker 2: We have a lady who's been on the show a

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Speaker 2: bunch so did. Her name is doctor Ingrid and she's

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Speaker 2: a psychiatrist at Royal Adelaide Hospital and most or as

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Speaker 2: many of her appointments as she can do walking, she does.

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Speaker 2: So people come to her office at the hospital. Obvious

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Speaker 2: she doesn't walk all day, but she does quite a

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Speaker 2: lot of them, and she's like, put on your jacket

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Speaker 2: or put on your whatever we need what cever weather appropriate,

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Speaker 2: and off they go. They walk forty five minutes or

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Speaker 2: whatever the time they get back and she said to me,

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Speaker 2: I get much better outcomes. People are more open, people

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Speaker 2: are more responsive, people are more you know, it's like

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Speaker 2: just sitting in a spot thinking about your shit isn't

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Speaker 2: as effective or often isn't as effective as you know,

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Speaker 2: even doing the same thing.

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Speaker 1: But you know, while being mobile, while being you know,

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Speaker 1: walking along what's that river in perse Sorry it's so

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Speaker 1: stupid of.

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Speaker 2: Me right now, but anyway, actually, yeah, the you know,

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Speaker 2: amongst the trees and the grass, and you know, it's

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Speaker 2: like much better outcomes.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I agree with you.

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Speaker 2: Sorry I interrupted, You're going to say something swamp just

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Speaker 2: thank you swan river, thank you go.

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Speaker 4: That's not what I was going to say. But what

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Speaker 4: I was going to say is I wonder, way, I

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Speaker 4: wonder why people don't get into a consistent habit of movement.

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Speaker 4: I wonder what gets in the way.

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Speaker 1: Actually, do you think that people have a story, Like now,

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Speaker 1: I'm not an exercise person.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know it's like we all have stories

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Speaker 4: around our identity, what we are or what we're not,

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Speaker 4: and obviously that profoundly shapes our behaviors. Yes, but I'm

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Speaker 4: not even talking about exercise. For me, it's like what

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Speaker 4: is the lowest hanging fruit, Like, what is the easiest

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Speaker 4: place to start where it's almost ridiculous not to do

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Speaker 4: it and start there, because if you get into the

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Speaker 4: habit of consistent movement, that will do an enormous amount

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Speaker 4: of good to support you getting into a habit of

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Speaker 4: consistent exercise. If that's where you're even looking to go,

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Speaker 4: but just start somewhere, start moving, because the thing is

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Speaker 4: what movement? You'll feel better once you start doing it.

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Speaker 4: It's not like, oh, well, I've been exercising for four

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Speaker 4: weeks and I still haven't achieved the body of my dream.

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Speaker 4: You'll start feeling better the week you're moving. It's just

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Speaker 4: a matter of a lot of times. Our environment is

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Speaker 4: so structure to prevent movement. Like right now, for example,

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Speaker 4: we're sitting down, but we're virtual, we're behind the screen.

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Speaker 4: Tomorrow night I have a webinar, I'm gonna be sitting down.

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Speaker 4: Normally I would be standing up and moving around the

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Speaker 4: room dynamically, but I'm sitting down. Then, think about people

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Speaker 4: who work remotely. They have one meeting after the next,

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Speaker 4: like they didn't have time to go to the loo.

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Speaker 4: They're sitting there and nappies like guzzling water. It's like,

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Speaker 4: that's that's not That's not an environment conducive to movement,

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Speaker 4: is it? So our whole environment used to be structure

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Speaker 4: on the necessity to move. Oh my goodness. So today

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Speaker 4: I was coming back from the gym early this morning

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Speaker 4: and they were already working on the lift, Like, oh, sorry,

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Speaker 4: you know, lifts are down. It's like, you know what.

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Speaker 4: I live on the sixth floor. Each story has two

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Speaker 4: flights of stairs between it. That's twelve flights of stairs.

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Speaker 4: He was like, I'm gonna get my ass up the stairs.

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Speaker 4: I was like, why don't I do this more often?

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Speaker 1: A hundred you should fuck that elevator off.

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Speaker 4: Out of your life, Like I understood why I used

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Speaker 4: to live on the thirtieth floor. They get, but I

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Speaker 4: live on the sixth floor. That's twelve flights of stairs.

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Speaker 4: I mean, and look if that seems like a lot,

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Speaker 4: like take take the lift up to the fifth floor

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Speaker 4: and just like walk up to the six Just constantly

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Speaker 4: expand your capitalization on the opportunities that you have to move. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: when I live in cities, man, have you move a lot?

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Speaker 4: Because there's no other choice.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 2: Also, you know when people are like I'm not an

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Speaker 2: excise person, or I don't like the gym, or well, one,

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Speaker 2: you don't need to go to a gym.

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Speaker 1: And also you don't need to be an excise person.

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Speaker 1: You just need to be a person who has a

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Speaker 1: body and bodies like to be moved.

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Speaker 2: Bodies need to be moved, Bodies need mobility, bodies need

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Speaker 2: their heart rate to go up and down a bit.

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Speaker 2: You know, bodies need to be put under under a

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Speaker 2: level of stress an intelligent, strategic, and consistent way. Because

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Speaker 2: there's not one person.

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Speaker 1: That goes I'm not an excise person that if you said,

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Speaker 1: would you like to be a bit fitter stronger, healthier.

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Speaker 1: I would say, no, I wouldn't like that. Like if

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Speaker 1: everyone was being honest.

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Speaker 2: Of course, everyone go, yeah, I'd like to be a

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Speaker 2: bit fitter, healthier, stronger. Whatever that looks like, well cool,

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Speaker 2: there's an easy way to do it. And you do

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Speaker 2: this for ten minutes a day, or five minutes a

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Speaker 2: day or five minutes three times a day, or you know,

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Speaker 2: you don't have to start running marathons. You might start

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Speaker 2: just like you were talking about walking six flights or

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Speaker 2: twelve flights or however many fucking flights.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it just seems that there's.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I have some unpopular theories about why,

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Speaker 2: which I won't mention, but I will kind of.

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Speaker 1: I just think that we are.

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Speaker 2: Physically anyway, not as resilient as we once were, because

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Speaker 2: for most of our human experience as a species, we

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Speaker 2: haven't had elevators, we haven't had escalators, we haven't had

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Speaker 2: paved roads and footpaths and automobiles and motorbikes, and you.

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Speaker 1: Know, for most of human existence we had none of that.

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Speaker 1: And we're just so.

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Speaker 2: Extracted from just normal physical expenditure, energy expenditure, and movement,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, that we that we like you said, we

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Speaker 2: spend our lives sitting down.

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Speaker 1: Hey, have you ever wondered do you reckon? Do you reckon?

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Speaker 2: If we did an IQ test standing up versus sitting down,

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Speaker 2: Let's say all the other variables were the same, Right,

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Speaker 2: it's not like we've been sitting for eight hours. But

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Speaker 2: let's just say we got up, we did our normal day,

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Speaker 2: and then it. You know, person A at ten o'clock

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Speaker 2: did a stand up test? Person be at ten o'clock

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Speaker 2: did a sit down test. Do you think there's any difference?

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean I think IQ is one

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Speaker 4: of those things that was like it's fairly fixed throughout

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Speaker 4: your lifetime. But how you would perform on that test,

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Speaker 4: I would imagine I make a bit of a difference. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean I know when you sit me there, and

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Speaker 4: this is one of the frustrating things. It's like everything

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Speaker 4: in the work environment, like you go to do anything

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Speaker 4: and it's like, all right, so sit down here. It's

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Speaker 4: like I do not think well when I'm seated at all.

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Speaker 1: That is interesting.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, if I stand up and I start moving, even

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Speaker 4: when I had and you know, I don't recommend like

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Speaker 4: somebody's at a standing desk all day long like that

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Speaker 4: can be problematic. But when I was able to go

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Speaker 4: from sitting to standing, or a lot of times I

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Speaker 4: would work on a high table. So when a lot

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Speaker 4: of my job dependent on writing and you got to

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Speaker 4: write like eight articles a month, which you know it

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Speaker 4: is not easy, I would just work at a standing

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Speaker 4: desk and just stand and then pace around, gather my

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Speaker 4: thoughts and come back and write down what I just

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Speaker 4: came up with and go pace again. I was like,

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Speaker 4: we get so much more done than if I was

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Speaker 4: just sitting down like writing, because the thought would be

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Speaker 4: so much more fluid. So I performed better when I'm moving.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes when I do a gig, I like sitting

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Speaker 2: on stage because I like sitting down with the group.

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Speaker 2: Or often i'll do something in a boardroom like I'm

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Speaker 2: sure you've done, Like I've literally done gigs.

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Speaker 1: I've done it.

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Speaker 2: I've done a whole afternoon with three directors of a

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Speaker 2: company in a room, like my audience was three people,

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Speaker 2: and I've done four thousand in an outdoor event. Right,

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Speaker 2: it's just crazy. But the obviously the experience is very different.

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Speaker 2: But even with a group of people in a room,

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Speaker 2: we're sitting in a boardroom at a big table, and

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Speaker 2: it might be it's only been three once, but generally

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Speaker 2: it's like ten or twelve people. Like it's a very

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Speaker 2: small group. But I can't sit there forever like I

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Speaker 2: need to. I don't know, I feel like my brain

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Speaker 2: works a bit better like you when I move, like

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Speaker 2: if i've and my probably my addiction in their space

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Speaker 2: is you know, whiteboards, because I love to just to

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Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about idea and I'm just going

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Speaker 2: to write that word on the board. Then I'm going

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Speaker 2: to riff on that. Then I'm going to draw a

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Speaker 2: line coming from that word, and I'm going to write

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Speaker 2: another word right then I'm going to build this little

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Speaker 2: kind of you know, intersection and interface of words. It

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Speaker 2: all kind of focus around this middle word here and

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Speaker 2: then like for me, it's with the It gives them

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Speaker 2: something to look at other.

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Speaker 1: Than me for a moment.

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Speaker 2: And when I'm I don't know, when I'm writing on

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Speaker 2: a white board and there's that I like it sounds silly,

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Speaker 2: but I like writing like I write. I like writing

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Speaker 2: well on a board like it's for me it's creativity.

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Speaker 2: And when I do that, it's like another bit of

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Speaker 2: my brain gets accessed as well.

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Speaker 4: So my brain works through association. I'm not like a

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Speaker 4: linear thinker, although I've trained myself to be a little

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Speaker 4: bit more over the years, but I'm the same way.

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Speaker 4: If I write a word on a board that's relevant

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Speaker 4: to something, that just sparks my creativity instantly, I know

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Speaker 4: what to say. I don't write now. I look like

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Speaker 4: I'm like a chemist writing on a board basically, but.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell people what linear thinking is.

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Speaker 4: I don't have like a structured outline and thinking in

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Speaker 4: numerical order like okay, this precedes this, and then the

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Speaker 4: next step would be I mean, you know, I use

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Speaker 4: acronyms a lot, which structures and directs my thinking, but

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Speaker 4: I think the association same thing. If you give me

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Speaker 4: a word, it's like, oh, okay, well what connects to

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Speaker 4: this word? Relevant to you know, what we're all doing here.

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Speaker 2: I have a little chat sheet which I really use,

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Speaker 2: but it's one piece of a full paper and it's

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Speaker 2: got I would say about eighty words on it, and

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Speaker 2: the word could be which is so some of them

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Speaker 2: are two words could be subjective reality, or it could

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Speaker 2: be success, or it could be metacognition, or it could

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Speaker 2: be anxiety or whatever. But there's all of these words

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Speaker 2: on this one page, and all of them are highlighted

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Speaker 2: in about five colors, so the words all stand out,

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Speaker 2: they don't really get lost, And each one of those

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Speaker 2: words I can confidently talk about for twenty minutes, so

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Speaker 2: I know I have give or take eighty times twenty

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Speaker 2: sixteen hundred words or sixteen hundred minutes before I reach

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Speaker 2: for anything else, and even then I probably have more

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Speaker 2: than that. But it's like my brain likes that, where, Oh, Craig,

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Speaker 2: could you just talk to us about that? Yes, sure,

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Speaker 2: let's do that. Like somebody asked me, Yeah, somebody asked

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Speaker 2: me recently how long does it take to form a habit?

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Speaker 2: And like, that's just an interesting question to un pack

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Speaker 2: and there are so many variables, and I'm like, that's

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Speaker 2: a great question. I want to talk about that. And

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Speaker 2: then we just spoke and the audience asked other questions

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Speaker 2: around that, and it's like we did a twenty minute

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Speaker 2: riff on just this one conversation starter to which there

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Speaker 2: is no absolute answer, but nonetheless, it's a really interesting

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Speaker 2: idea to lean into, you know, and that I think

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Speaker 2: people you know you and I work like that I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of I feel like we're doing the

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Speaker 2: thing I said not to do. But that's all right,

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Speaker 2: remember back to our But communication wise, I guess just

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Speaker 2: how people build connection and rapport with whether or not

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Speaker 2: it's one person at work or one hundred people in

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Speaker 2: a room.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 4: When it comes to performance in any area of your life,

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Speaker 4: when it comes to family, friends, when it comes to

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Speaker 4: you know, given a presentation at work, sales call, or

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Speaker 4: sitting down with your boss, I think there there's there's

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Speaker 4: kind of contradictory dynamics. And we told we got into

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Speaker 4: this a few weeks ago, a few episodes ago. I

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Speaker 4: was having a conversation with you know, you know this guy,

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Speaker 4: you know, Chuck Wolf right, Yeah, his wife at.

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Speaker 1: The time, it's quite well known.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I mean he's known in fitness and biomechanics circles,

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Speaker 4: not generally. So we were on tour in Australia. This

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Speaker 4: was great and Taylor came down to present with us

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Speaker 4: later that day. So we had a hotel in Melbourne.

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Speaker 4: And I love listening to Chuck because he's just captivating

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Speaker 4: and brilliant. But I had heard the same thing like

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Speaker 4: five times in the course of a week. So I

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Speaker 4: was just chatting to Lauren in the back of the room,

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Speaker 4: and she's a very successful stage perform and I had

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Speaker 4: asked her, I know I've brought this up before, what

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Speaker 4: is the difference between someone who is just peerless in

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Speaker 4: their space in terms of a performer, someone who's merely good?

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Speaker 4: And she said, well, let's take a look at what

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Speaker 4: it's not. She said, it's not talent, because if you're

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Speaker 4: doing shows, you're at that level. Everybody's talented, and it's

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Speaker 4: not hard work. All of these people are working brutally hard.

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Speaker 4: It's a psychological dynamic. And she said that the people

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Speaker 4: who are legendary are the people who have this enormous

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Speaker 4: ego and this broad and deep, beautiful sense of humility

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Speaker 4: in the same persona. And I think that's important is

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Speaker 4: having characteristics that balance each other out. I remember that

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Speaker 4: you had said something interesting about God. You walk on

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Speaker 4: whatever stage that is. Your stage could be six o'clock

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Speaker 4: in the morning, your kids all running amock, trying to

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Speaker 4: get ready for school, and you're trying to organize twenty

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Speaker 4: six different things because you not only have to sort

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Speaker 4: the family out, but you've got a lot of things

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Speaker 4: you need to get done. That's a stage. And if

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Speaker 4: you don't have something, because life is really hard and

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Speaker 4: it seems like it's getting more and more complicated and

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Speaker 4: harder and harder, if you don't have this intrinsic compass

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Speaker 4: to say, yeah, you know what, I'm good at this shit,

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Speaker 4: I am really good at this. This might be hard today,

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Speaker 4: but I have got this. I could figure this out

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Speaker 4: and I've got something to contribute. I think that puts

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Speaker 4: you in a space where you're not so self absorbed

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Speaker 4: that you have been going to be able to focus

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Speaker 4: on others because when that ego is too high, you

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Speaker 4: become reformative and it's all about you and your outcomes.

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Speaker 4: If your humility is too high and you have zero ego,

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Speaker 4: you become invisible, which means not only do you not

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Speaker 4: have the confidence and the courage to speak up or

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Speaker 4: use your talent and use your skills. Even if you

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Speaker 4: did from that space, it won't really impact people because

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Speaker 4: if you don't have confidence in what you're saying, if

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Speaker 4: you don't have any level of certainty, other people are

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Speaker 4: going to be very apprehensive around you. And we just

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Speaker 4: know that that's just the way the world works. You

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Speaker 4: need that balance, because otherwise life will shut you down

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Speaker 4: in critical situations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about that. I think.

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Speaker 2: It's funny I write the word performing and five seconds

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Speaker 2: later you said it becomes performative. Right, And there is

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Speaker 2: that thing because it's almost like item gets thrown around

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Speaker 2: as edutainment. You've heard that, right, kind of the section

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Speaker 2: of education and entertainment.

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Speaker 1: And I know that.

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Speaker 2: Not always, but typically when I am a little bit storyteller,

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Speaker 2: mildly funny guy educator, but also being in the moment

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Speaker 2: a bit of an mpath where I'm kind of sensitive

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Speaker 2: to the This doesn't sound like a Craig sentence, so

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Speaker 2: forgive me everyone, but I'm kind of sensitive to the

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Speaker 2: energy in the room and the vibe in the room

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Speaker 2: and what's going on.

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Speaker 1: And how you know this is consistent with my PhD.

435
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: How am I going? How am I going? For them?

436
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 2: Who is Craig Harp and now for them? Is he

437
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: the annoying fucking buffet on the stage? Is he the

438
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 2: insightful guy that seems like he cares? Is that you

439
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 2: know that's not coming from security insecurity or ego. That's

440
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 2: coming from a little bit of awareness and a desire

441
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: to be good in the moment for them so that

442
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 2: I can so they walk away and not go necessarily

443
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 2: he was good maybe, but more importantly that was good.

444
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: I needed to hear that. That was helpful to me.

445
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: And so it's very it's it's it's I don't think

446
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: being I think being one hundred percent performative doesn't work

447
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:29,719
Speaker 1: at our job. I think having an element of performance

448
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 1: often makes it better if it's.

449
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 2: Intertwined with integrity and real world experience and insight and

450
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: reflection and science and yeah, but it's not like, oh,

451
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 2: you need twelve percent of this, fourteen percent of that

452
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 2: twenty two percent. There's no set formula because it's fluid,

453
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 2: and what's great for this group ain't great for that group.

454
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 4: And I think it's very hard to tune in to

455
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 4: your group when you are a lacking some level of confidence,

456
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 4: because I think about the people who are completely self absorbed.

457
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 4: They're always talking about themselves. It's always about them, They're

458
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 4: the center of their universe. Well, they're not in tune

459
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 4: to people. But most of the time these are individuals

460
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 4: that do not feel very great about themselves. They're struggling

461
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 4: with some deep level of inadequacy, and you know what's

462
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 4: funny is a lot of times people see this and

463
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 4: it's evident, but even these individuals get up sometimes and

464
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 4: because they're so outwardly confident, people mistake that for some

465
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 4: level of competence. And those two things are mutually reinforcing,

466
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 4: but they're not automatically synonymous with one of those. So

467
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 4: a lot of the times the people who have their

468
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 4: ego is too large for the room. It's not a

469
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 4: feeling of self assurance. It's the exact opposite. It's deep

470
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 4: rooted insecurity that creates that. So you need something that

471
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 4: makes you confident enough to put yourself in a situation

472
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 4: where you have a voice that's going to be heard

473
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 4: and like you know that you have something to say,

474
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 4: you have a level of expertise, or you have a

475
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 4: level of care let's say at home with the family.

476
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 4: And then once you get into that space, you can

477
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 4: now afford to let go and turn your attention outward

478
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 4: because it's not about you. You get yourself and get

479
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 4: you prop yourself up. You get yourself into that state

480
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 4: so you can tackle things, especially when things are unpredictable

481
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 4: and they're extremely difficult, and then the key is to

482
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 4: disappear in that situation.

483
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: H wow.

484
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 2: I don't know if you can do this, but I'm

485
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 2: going to ask you. Can you explain to me ego

486
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 2: through a positive lens and a negative lens.

487
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 4: I think ego is a strong sense of myself, and

488
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 4: I think through a negative leans it is an infleetion

489
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 4: or over focus on myself that crowd it gets so

490
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 4: big that it crowds out my ability to view others. Yeah,

491
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 4: the sensor to.

492
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: That, because it doesn't it doesn't get held in general.

493
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: Or this is my observation. Other people will probably have

494
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: a different one.

495
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 3: But my observation is, you know, out in the wild,

496
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: in the wild of suburban Melbourne and all the other suburbans,

497
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 3: it's not like having a big ego is a good thing.

498
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: It's generally a criticism or an insult. So do we

499
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: regard it like we're not understanding what it? You know.

500
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 4: I think the.

501
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: Original was like in the Greek ego id id meaning

502
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 2: the self, the self in the middle of one's fucking existence.

503
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: Like because I don't think originally this ain't my area

504
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: of expectise, obviously, but I don't think it was really

505
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: you know, uh, held in a negative light rather than

506
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: as almost just like the understanding of one's self.

507
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 4: If I don't understand me, I'm going to have a

508
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 4: hard time understanding you. If I'm too over indexed and

509
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 4: focused on myself, I'm not even tuned into you. So

510
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 4: I think it's not a matter of is this trait

511
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 4: good or bad? It's in what does exactly I mean?

512
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 4: Being self conscious sometimes stops you from doing and saying

513
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 4: things that are disruptive or damaging to yourself and others.

514
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 4: Is it good to be exceedingly self conscious? No, it'll

515
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 4: shut you down in just about every area of your life.

516
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 4: Is your ego good or bad? Well, yeah, if you

517
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 4: have too little of an ego, you'll never do anything,

518
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 4: never contribute to anyone. If if he goes too big,

519
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 4: it always becomes about you, and you'll never form bonds

520
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 4: with the people that you're out in the world with,

521
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 4: And then what's that worth? And yeah, you know you'll

522
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 4: never learn, you'll never grow. So if there is, if

523
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 4: there is a growth edge that you have that's counterproductive

524
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 4: to your life, you're probably not even going to be

525
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 4: aware of it, or if you're made aware of it,

526
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 4: you probably won't accept it. So I think it's not

527
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 4: a matter of is this attribute good? It's what's the

528
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 4: magnitude of this attribute and what role does it play

529
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 4: in my life? Is it serving me and others? Or

530
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 4: is it getting in the way.

531
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm going to tell you what Chatters is

532
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 2: telling us, and then you're going to riff off the

533
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: back of this.

534
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: I just typed in for everyone. What is ego? Sure answer?

535
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: Ego is the idea of me.

536
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: Along and clearer version it says, minus the woo woo,

537
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 2: that's hilarious. Ego is the mental construct says this is

538
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 2: who I am. It's the story your mind tells about you.

539
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: Who you are, what you're worth, how you should be seen,

540
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: and how the world should treat you. It's built from memories, labels, roles, beliefs,

541
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: success as failures, comparisons and conditioning. Different lens, same thing.

542
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: Freud said. Ego is the mediator. It manages reality, impulses

543
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: and rules so you can function everyday.

544
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: Language.

545
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: Ego is equal self importance, defensiveness, don't disrespect me.

546
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: And the last lens is philosophy.

547
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: Ego is identification with thoughts, role and identity, making the

548
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: story for the self. That's quite interesting, Yeah, which you

549
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: take on all that, Professor Robert, Professor Capuccio.

550
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 4: Well, jeez, like far be it from me to like

551
00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 4: add to chart GPT the secret. But yeah, I mean

552
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 4: the thing that sticks out for me and that is

553
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 4: it's all story. I think it's impossible to see yourself

554
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 4: with complete objectivity. I mean, I don't know if you

555
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 4: could be committed to anything, love anything, value anything, or

556
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 4: protect yourself from anything and have a completely accurate assessment

557
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 4: of yourself and a lack of biases. But some some

558
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 4: stories are inspiring, some stories are tragic, and it's like, yeah,

559
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 4: how do you narrate that story? Because you're probably right

560
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 4: to some degree on any story you're telling yourself about you. Yeah,

561
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 4: it's just what's your reference point, what chapter you're reading,

562
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 4: and what's your index, what's your methodology to where you

563
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 4: know if the first question out of my mouth? So

564
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 4: I was writing about this a little bit today. There's

565
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 4: a there's a principle in the school psychology called appreciative

566
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 4: inquiry called the construction of principle, and the construction principle

567
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 4: pretty much says that words create worlds that we don't

568
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 4: just go out there and discover reality and experience reality.

569
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 4: But we co construct reality through our language, and one

570
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 4: of those tenets is that the quality of our life

571
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 4: is based on the quality of the questions we ask ourselves,

572
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 4: Like how do we direct our focus? So if I'm like,

573
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 4: what is wrong with me? Well, I'm going to find

574
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 4: an answer for that, and that answer because that's a

575
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 4: very threatening question. It's saying that somehow something is dysfunctional

576
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 4: with me and I'm going to find out what it is.

577
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 4: And that might be a really good question later on

578
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 4: down the line, But if you're looking to explore anything

579
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 4: or grow anything, that's the first question you ask that's

580
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 4: going to shut down possibilities. I think a better question

581
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 4: is what exactly do I want in this situation? And

582
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 4: when have I had it? Like you said earlier, people

583
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 4: tell you, wow, I'm just not a exercise type of person.

584
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 4: What type of person are you? Exactly? And how did you?

585
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: How did you become that person?

586
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 4: Were you always this person? What happened? You know? If

587
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 4: you take a look at one or two experiences that

588
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 4: most powerfully shape your ability to be the person you are, now,

589
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 4: what were those? Yeah? You aren't you know?

590
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: I think what is wrong with me? Question is disingenuous

591
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 2: I think what is wrong with me is an intersection

592
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 2: of self loathing and self pity. I don't think the

593
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 2: person goes what's wrong with me is actually genuinely curious.

594
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,240
Speaker 1: I think it's just it's almost just a frustration statement,

595
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: you know.

596
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 2: I think the you know, the more aware version of

597
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 2: that would be, well, I keep doing this thing. I've

598
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: done this three times, I've got a bad outcome three times.

599
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: What's what are my results telling me? Could I change

600
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 2: the way I do it? How do other people do it?

601
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 1: Like?

602
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 2: There's a whole lot of better questions. I feel like,

603
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: you know, it's almost like you Why doesn't.

604
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: Anyone like me? Or do you want me to tell you?

605
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: Because you really don't want to know? Because I could

606
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 1: probably give you a few ideas.

607
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: I don't think that nobody likes you, but I think

608
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 2: you're a fuck of the social challenge and sit down,

609
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 2: get your pen and paper out, and from the outside

610
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 2: looking in, I might have a few thoughts, you know,

611
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 2: But I think also you know that the idea of

612
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: objectivity for humans is that that's in my opinion anyway,

613
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: it's pretty much unattainable broadly speaking, maybe about specific things

614
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: like I know nothing about this, So you tell me

615
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 2: about it, because I know I have zero opinion, background, belief, idea,

616
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 2: I know nothing. Well, I'm objective, right But even then,

617
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 2: but I think the fact that we all have, you know,

618
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 2: cognitive bias, not some of us, all of us.

619
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: The fact that we all have emotional bias.

620
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 2: The fact that we are all look through our own

621
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 2: lens of experience and life and whatever we pay attention to,

622
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 2: our version of reality, our background, our theology, philosophy, psychology, sociology,

623
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,439
Speaker 2: all of the things that have intersected with us since

624
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 2: we could reason. And now like you and I are

625
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 2: on this podcast, is you know, you're a fifty something.

626
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 2: I'm a sixty two year old. So I've got these

627
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: two dudes who see the world. They see the way

628
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 2: that they do a little bit of that is genetic,

629
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 2: but largely it's about environment, experiences, and situations. And so

630
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 2: for me to think, even though I understand the idea

631
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: of objectivity, even though I'm doing a PhD in the mind,

632
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: for me to think, oh I'm objective, I'm just fucking

633
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 2: kidding myself. That's a demonstration of ego right there. Because

634
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 2: I have pre existing bias. I have pre existing beliefs

635
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: and likes and dislikes and values and all of that

636
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 2: shit is the lens through which I experience the world.

637
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: So I can't be objective. I would like to be.

638
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 2: I could, But I think a step in the right

639
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 2: direction of being objectives is being able to recognize your

640
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: lack of ability to be objective.

641
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: Like, I think you're opening the door on you know where.

642
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 4: Now we go.

643
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: Okay, so I believe in God.

644
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 2: I grew up in this environment where I was very

645
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: much encouraged if not, you know, smashed over the head

646
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 2: to believe that. Now, all these laters early years later,

647
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: this is what I think.

648
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: Do I go to church? No? Do I read the Bible?

649
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: Not a luck?

650
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 4: Do I do I? Yeah?

651
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: But also could I be wrong? Yes? I could be wrong.

652
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 1: Could the Bible be wrong? Yes?

653
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 2: Could it be a work of fiction or a work

654
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 2: of you know, or maybe a better both or well,

655
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: the answer is yes. The truth is I do not know,

656
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 2: which is also a prerequisite for faith, because if you

657
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 2: had knowledge, then there's no need for faith.

658
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: Steps down off soapbox.

659
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 4: That's it. This is an interesting conversation because when you

660
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 4: go into the duality of something or the paradox of something,

661
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 4: could I be wrong? And what else is true? I

662
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 4: think is enormously health healthy, not just for critical thinking,

663
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 4: but for any type of transformation or overall well being.

664
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 4: Because let's go back to that, like what's wrong with me?

665
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 4: And you're saying, well, that's that's an honest question. You're

666
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 4: just in a state of self loathing and frustration. So

667
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 4: if I'm in that state right and my identity is

668
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 4: something where my story around who I am is where

669
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,240
Speaker 4: I get all of my security from, am I able

670
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 4: to engage in a constructive conversation even it's like, hey,

671
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 4: another great example uses I just had. You know, I

672
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 4: just had these three negative outcomes based on this behavior.

673
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 4: Maybe I want to look at that. I'm probably not

674
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 4: even capable of looking at it. If I'm in a

675
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 4: what's wrong with me state, like I'm functioning out of

676
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 4: a level of frustration and anxiety. That is not a

677
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 4: good mental state to engage in critical thinking and creativity.

678
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 4: So sometimes it's a matter of like, what is that

679
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 4: story and go back and ask yourself, Okay, well what's

680
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 4: right with me? Who am I? And what aspects of

681
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 4: that am I proud of? And then I think once

682
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 4: you get into that psychological state, and it opens up

683
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 4: for creativity, openness. You're more suggestible not only through your

684
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 4: own thought patterns, but the insights of others. Another question

685
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 4: could be like, well, what's the behavior that's a discrepancy

686
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 4: between me and when I'm most proud of myself or

687
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 4: when I'm doing what I think I need to do

688
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 4: and the results I'm getting. There's a discrepancy there that

689
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 4: is a much more constructive state of mind, where those

690
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 4: those insights now land. I could go, ah, Okay, first

691
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 4: of all, it's not me. What's wrong with me or

692
00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 4: my behaviors are producing something. So it's still like I'm responsible,

693
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 4: it's accountable, but it's not like a blame game. It's

694
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 4: it's more of looking at the behavior and comparing that

695
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 4: to what is it within your story, yourself, your ego

696
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 4: that you value is being contradicted by these behaviors. What's

697
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 4: gone sorry dude, kick down, kick out? And why would

698
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 4: you engage in those behaviors? So if it's like, I

699
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 4: imagine myself as someone who is at my core, I'm empathetic,

700
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 4: I'm energetic, I'm dynamic. I connect with others. But you know,

701
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 4: the past three meetings I had at work where an

702
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 4: epic fail because I was at the bar last night

703
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 4: and I woke up hung over and I can't focus

704
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 4: on the job. Well, okay, why am I doing that?

705
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: Yes?

706
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 4: What am I wanting there? You know what I mean?

707
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: Yes, there's a reason.

708
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 4: There's a reason why I'm there and not at home

709
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 4: reading a book or not at home sitting at the

710
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 4: table with my family, Like, what is going on? But

711
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 4: I think starting from and this is where the whole

712
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 4: point about confidence comes in. What is it that gets

713
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 4: you to a point where you can engage in patterns

714
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 4: of thoughts and behaviors and be able to look at

715
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,879
Speaker 4: yourself objectively without being a threat to self, to where

716
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 4: you just will not examine that which needs to be examined.

717
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: I have an answer to that.

718
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 2: I believe one of the biggest problems, challenges, whatever you

719
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 2: want to call it, in this is that people's identity

720
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 2: is intertwined with what they believe want to believe. It's

721
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 2: intertwined with their stories, it's intertwined with their values, it's

722
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: intertwined with their version of reality and truth.

723
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: And the problem with that is when I question your

724
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: version of the truth, or your ideas or your philosophy

725
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: or your theology. You feel like I'm attacking you, right,

726
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: and so therefore like because well, a Christian.

727
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 2: Is who I am, A vegan is who I am,

728
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 2: an athlete is who I am, an EmPATH is who

729
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: I am.

730
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: Right, there's all this strong identity.

731
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: So when you go, oh, look, maybe you know part

732
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 2: of me is bothered by things too, like, for example, somebody.

733
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: Going, you know, saying something about you know, some of

734
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 1: my beliefs God?

735
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 2: For example, Right, if I'm going to be brave, I

736
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 2: need to say, well, Craig, how often do you get

737
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 2: shit wrong? I don't know, probably ten to twenty times

738
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 2: a day, right, how many times in the last you know,

739
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: fifty years, I don't know, fucking one hundred thousand, who knows?

740
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: So do you think you're going to get stuff wrong

741
00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 1: moving forward? No, No, I don't because I know everything

742
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: and I'm right.

743
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: Dude, you're not. You just want to be because being

744
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 2: right makes you comfortable. You love being right because you

745
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: hate the thought that you could be fucking wrong. You

746
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 2: hate the thought that Bobby might know more than you,

747
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 2: and you feel dumb and look dumb, or it's so

748
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 2: you think, and so you have this emotion that overrides everything.

749
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: So I know what I believe. I believe certain things

750
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: I really do, but also I don't know that they

751
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: are true, but I believe them nonetheless, which is as

752
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: I said, it's a it's faith in operation, right. So

753
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: I think that's the challenge, is that when.

754
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: Someone believes something they don't believe, they could be wrong.

755
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 2: That's a problem because we're fucking wrong all the.

756
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: Time, you know.

757
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 4: And if you are, you go If I am my beliefs, well,

758
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 4: my beliefs are where I get my certainty from my

759
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 4: sense of saft. So if you're anything that threatens that,

760
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 4: you know, the question becomes if you're not, If you

761
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 4: are not your beliefs, what are you? That's what I say.

762
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what Eckhart told says, I'm the awareness

763
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: of everything that I'm not. You know, he would tell

764
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 2: you your awareness, that your energy, that you're that your intellect,

765
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 2: that you're all of that stuff. I mean, you know,

766
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: I don't. I think the who am I? Is more

767
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 2: a philosophical than a helpful question for me anyway. But

768
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 2: I think putting yourself in any pigeon hole metaphoric pigeon

769
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: hole and going I am this because that means that's

770
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 2: all you can be. You know, I'm not a single thing.

771
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 2: I'm an intersection of things.

772
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: You know.

773
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 2: I'm spiritual, I'm emotional, I'm creative, I'm funny, I'm stupid,

774
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: I'm clever, I'm physical, I'm not physical.

775
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: I'm you know. And I think that's okay. And there's

776
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: stuff I will never know. There's stuff I.

777
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 2: Will always get wrong. There are things like even in

778
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 2: this conversation that I go, shut the fuck up me.

779
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 2: You know that you and I are both pretty good

780
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 2: at self loathing, by the way, right, and we've spoken

781
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,919
Speaker 2: about that. But it's like if I wait until yeah, yeah,

782
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 2: if I've got if I wait until i'm happy with

783
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 2: I'm totally happy with me, Like I think, oh yeah,

784
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 2: I've really I'm fucking I've nailed it, which I will

785
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 2: never think. Doesn't mean I think I'm a bad person

786
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: or a piece of shit. But I realize that I'm flawed.

787
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 2: I realize I'm going to get things wrong. I realize

788
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to hurt people's feelings while not ever wanting

789
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 2: to hurt people's feelings, but I know that's going to

790
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: happen because that's a human experience. So I go, well,

791
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: I'm flawed and a bit broken, also at times a

792
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 2: bit funny and a bit clever. But on the list,

793
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 2: I can't wipe for fucking perfection because I'll be dead.

794
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna do what I do and try

795
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 2: and do it with awareness and humility and love.

796
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: And that's it. That's me.

797
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 4: And I think when you say that humility love for me,

798
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:21,399
Speaker 4: it's it's like without understanding, and I don't. I don't

799
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 4: know who I am. There's so many aspects to me.

800
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 4: I don't know myself in its entirety and all the

801
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 4: influences that make me like there are things that I

802
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 4: do on a daily basis I think most people do

803
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 4: on a daily but I have no idea why I

804
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 4: did that. I know what my story is about why

805
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 4: I did that, but I don't know. But for me,

806
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 4: it goes back to that concept that we talked about

807
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 4: self authoring. Who I am is what in this moment

808
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 4: I resonate with. I choose to be. I am my word,

809
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 4: I am my promises, I am my purpose, which is

810
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 4: what is mean to me and how I want to

811
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,959
Speaker 4: contribute that or why it's important for me to share

812
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 4: that I think the issue is sometimes, and I'm talking

813
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 4: about this tomorrow night, we mistake social contracts for values.

814
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 4: I am my values, you know, like honesty is it's

815
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 4: not in my mind, it's not really a value. Or

816
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 4: trust is not really a value. It's a social contract.

817
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 4: It's very important. It's critical for societies to work. Like

818
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 4: if I say, hey, could you like watch my car

819
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 4: for a minute, I need to have some level of

820
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 4: certainty that you're not just going to steal it. So

821
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 4: that kind of works in a society. But when I

822
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 4: think of a value, I think of something that resonates

823
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 4: with me to the point that is so sacred that

824
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 4: I become most engaged with life when I partake in

825
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 4: this thing. Like for me, a value is teaching. Teaching

826
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 4: is a value. Back in the day, travel used to

827
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 4: be a value. Play is a value. Humor, appreciation and beauty, excellence,

828
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 4: all those things, those are values. They draw me out

829
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 4: and energize me. And it's not about the outcome. It's

830
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 4: not like I like this because when I do this,

831
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 4: this happens. The payoff is in the process itself. So

832
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 4: those things are meaningful for their own sake. That's how

833
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 4: I look at values, and I think building a story

834
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 4: on I am this gives direction without rigidity because it's

835
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 4: not a belief. I am definitely not my beliefs, and

836
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 4: I have strong beliefs held lightly.

837
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 2: It just dawned on me as you were speaking, as

838
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:50,800
Speaker 2: we're wrapping up here, that's when I started my research,

839
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 2: which obviously my stuff comes broadly under the banner of

840
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 2: self awareness, like understanding me, understanding may for others, you know,

841
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 2: social situational awareness, blah blah blah. And I'm like, oh,

842
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 2: when did they start researching self awareness or you know

843
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 2: this kind of and obviously, well, not obviously, but I think, yeah,

844
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, oh, you know, it's probably been It's probably

845
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 2: been some kind of research or talk or theorizing about

846
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 2: this for one hundred years or more. Because even the

847
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 2: field of psychology, which a lot of people don't realize,

848
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 2: like psychology itself as a science is I think one

849
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty years old.

850
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:31,879
Speaker 1: It's not old.

851
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 2: But yeah, obviously Socrates the beginning of wisdom is to

852
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 2: know thyself, right, and that was two and a half

853
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 2: thousand years ago. I'm like, well, allegedly Socrates, it's attributed,

854
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 2: but let's just say some old stoic right, but it's

855
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 2: people have been talking about this shit forever, trying to

856
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 2: figure out want to achieve it.

857
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think so.

858
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 2: Hey mate, it's always good to talk to you too.

859
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 2: The self Helppan Todote is the name of Bobby's podcast.

860
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 2: Robert Capuccio dot com.

861
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: Am I right on that?

862
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's right.

863
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 2: Upercapuccio dot com. You can also follow him on Insta.

864
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 2: He's a little bit needy, so jump on Insta if

865
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 2: you wouldn't follow him.

866
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 4: Actually, LinkedIn is the best place to get me.

867
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 2: Okay, fuck ig Go to LinkedIn. Go to LinkedIn. I

868
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 2: stand corrected. Thanks mate, we'll talk again soon.

869
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 4: See you next week.