WEBVTT - The Australian teachers quitting over Andrew Tate

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM. For

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<v Speaker 1>some time now, an alarming number of Australian boys have

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<v Speaker 1>been engaging with and looking up to, the misogynistic influencer

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<v Speaker 1>Andrew Tate. And this week the conversation about misogyny and

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<v Speaker 1>the manisphere has resurfaced. Social Services Minister Tanya Plipasek has

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<v Speaker 1>accused married at First Side of platforming, coercive control and misogyny.

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<v Speaker 1>Netflix has released Louis the Roue's Inside the Manisphere. A

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<v Speaker 1>fresh research suggests roughly forty percent of teenage boys surveyed

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<v Speaker 1>agreed that women lie about domestic and sexual violence. Takes influence,

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<v Speaker 1>is warping classroom conversations, driving female peers to the fringe

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<v Speaker 1>of discussion, and even causing some teachers to quit. So

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<v Speaker 1>why are misogynistic influencers reaching so many young men?

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<v Speaker 2>Today?

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<v Speaker 1>We're bringing you an episode from twenty twenty four where

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<v Speaker 1>Ange McCormack speaks to author and journalists and a I

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<v Speaker 1>beout the misogynist radicalization in our schools. It's Sunday, March fifteen.

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<v Speaker 1>This episode was first published in March twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 3>Anna, you've written about Andrew Tate, and a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>people will be aware of that name, I think. But

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<v Speaker 3>as someone who's gone down some online rabbit holes for

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<v Speaker 3>this story, can you tell us who is Andrew Tate?

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<v Speaker 2>All right?

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<v Speaker 4>So basically, broadly speaking, he's I guess he's a misogynist.

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<v Speaker 5>Controversial online influencer, Andrew.

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<v Speaker 2>Tit Andrew Tait. Perhaps you're watching and thinking, who is

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew Tate?

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<v Speaker 5>I know women because I made a lot of money

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<v Speaker 5>for women.

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<v Speaker 6>Let me tell you something. I've been attacked plenty of times,

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<v Speaker 6>and I've talked about this in another video already, but

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<v Speaker 6>absolutely feeble.

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<v Speaker 4>Andrew Tate's misogyny is quite out there. It's, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>belong in the home. Men should be allowed to cheat,

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<v Speaker 4>but not women. You know, grip her up by the

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<v Speaker 4>throat kind of thing. Women shouldn't be allowed to drive.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, it's really aggressive, beat women back into their

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<v Speaker 4>boxes kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 6>They're useless, they ain't ready for the big man's slap.

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<v Speaker 7>I've got a big hand.

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<v Speaker 4>I guess what struck me about Andrew Taate was he

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<v Speaker 4>was a little bit like Donald Trump for teens. He's

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<v Speaker 4>got the swagger and the shamelessness about him that is

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<v Speaker 4>very Trumpian.

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<v Speaker 7>Every single time girl. Girls don't like being second place.

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<v Speaker 7>Girls like being number ones every time I have a

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<v Speaker 7>girlfriend or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I've got lots of girlfriends.

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<v Speaker 7>Every time I get a chick, she's like, you and

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<v Speaker 7>your brother, You're weird. You're weird, you're too friendly, You're

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<v Speaker 7>weird trying to drive that wedgend. I would sooner shoot

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<v Speaker 7>you in the head, bitch to stop talking.

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<v Speaker 4>To my brother. Obviously, he doesn't look like Trump. He

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<v Speaker 4>is a former kickboxer. He's very proud of his body.

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<v Speaker 4>He's very sculpted.

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<v Speaker 5>Coffee, cigars, lot of meat and hard train.

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<v Speaker 6>And I'm thirty five and I've never had a single

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<v Speaker 6>injection in my body.

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<v Speaker 4>He sees himself as a businessman, which involves sort of

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<v Speaker 4>online pimping of former girlfriends.

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<v Speaker 6>Me teaching people how I managed females in those scenarios,

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<v Speaker 6>how I controlled their emotions, how I convinced them to

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<v Speaker 6>work and give me most of their money, how I

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<v Speaker 6>convinced them to share me with other women, why they

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<v Speaker 6>obeyed me.

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<v Speaker 4>So I'm not sure how good a business that is,

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<v Speaker 4>but it seems to be successful.

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<v Speaker 2>Until now.

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<v Speaker 8>Prosecutors in Romania have filed formal charges against the controversial

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<v Speaker 8>influencer Andrew Tate, his brother Tristan, and two Romanian associates.

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<v Speaker 8>The charges include rape, human trafficking, and forming an organized

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<v Speaker 8>crime group, as well as illegally accessing a computer system

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<v Speaker 8>and violence against one of the alleged victims.

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<v Speaker 5>We have an open criminal investigation. I am absolutely not

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<v Speaker 5>really sure I'll be found innocent. I know the case

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<v Speaker 5>better than you. I know it intimately, and you don't.

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<v Speaker 5>I have seen all the criminal files and the evidence

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<v Speaker 5>against me, and you haven't.

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<v Speaker 4>As an older person, you're just like, he's just ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 4>As a teenage boy, I don't know. He must he

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<v Speaker 4>obviously strikes a chord. Teenage boys are lapping it up,

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<v Speaker 4>including boys in Australia.

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<v Speaker 3>And what do we know about how popular he is

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<v Speaker 3>in Australia. How are boys here engaging with him and

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<v Speaker 3>his content.

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<v Speaker 2>In terms of how popular he is in Australia.

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<v Speaker 4>There was a recent survey done by the Man Cave,

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<v Speaker 4>who do a lot of work in schools around masculinity,

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<v Speaker 4>and they sort of did a survey of Australian boys.

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<v Speaker 4>I think it was seventeen hundred Australian boys and they

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<v Speaker 4>found that ninety two percent of them were aware of Tait,

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<v Speaker 4>and a quarter of them, you know, saw him as

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<v Speaker 4>a role model. There's been a couple of researchers, Stephanie

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<v Speaker 4>Westcott a lecture at Monash University's School of Education, Culture

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<v Speaker 4>and Society and her colleague, professor Stephen Roberts. They call

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<v Speaker 4>it a type of misogynist radicalization that's happening online. So

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<v Speaker 4>last year, Stephanie Wescott and Stephen Roberts put a call

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<v Speaker 4>out on social media to female teachers at private and

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<v Speaker 4>public schools across Australia to partake in a study about

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<v Speaker 4>possible misogynists radicalization of their students in school, and they

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<v Speaker 4>were inundated with responses from female teachers. Roberts was telling

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<v Speaker 4>me how they still have teachers getting in contact even

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<v Speaker 4>though the studies that particular phase that their research is finished,

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<v Speaker 4>they still have teachers getting in touch saying please, I'm

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<v Speaker 4>desperate to talk about it to someone. So you've got

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<v Speaker 4>these female teachers are basically finding all these little mini

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<v Speaker 4>taps sitting in the back row making their lives hell

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<v Speaker 4>and other students' lives hell as well.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not all boys. That's really important to note.

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<v Speaker 4>For the teachers that they spoke to and the teachers

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<v Speaker 4>that I spoke to, it's usually about five boys in

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<v Speaker 4>a classroom of say twenty five, but that's a pretty

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<v Speaker 4>hefty weight there, and especially in the way that they

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<v Speaker 4>act and the way that they perform this masculinity. It

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<v Speaker 4>takes up a lot of space and it.

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<v Speaker 2>Really suffocates the room.

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<v Speaker 3>And you mentioned that teachers, you know, female teachers in particular,

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<v Speaker 3>are concerned by what impact this is having on classrooms.

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<v Speaker 3>And there, I guess at the frontline of witnessing Andrew

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<v Speaker 3>Take's influence on teenage boys, what do they say about

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<v Speaker 3>the impact it's having.

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<v Speaker 4>The last few years, there's been a real up in

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<v Speaker 4>of the anti for female teachers. A lot of them

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<v Speaker 4>talk about from the moment they enter that room, they're

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<v Speaker 4>in a really combative atmosphere coming from these guys sitting

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<v Speaker 4>at the back. And one of the teachers was talking

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<v Speaker 4>to me about how how they take up space. They're

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<v Speaker 4>always in a gang, and she said it was really cliched,

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<v Speaker 4>except they weren't doing it before they got their feet

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<v Speaker 4>on the desk, and they're constantly baiting females, constantly trying

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<v Speaker 4>to turn every single part of the class into a

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<v Speaker 4>discussion about whether a woman is worthy of what she

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<v Speaker 4>currently has in society, and should women be allowed to drive?

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<v Speaker 4>And why should a woman be telling a man what

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<v Speaker 4>to do? And every sort of tiny opening in a

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<v Speaker 4>classroom is sort of manipulated into these discussions about a

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<v Speaker 4>woman's inferiority, and you know, it's been hellish, absolute hell

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<v Speaker 4>to try and combat this while continue with educating a

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<v Speaker 4>class and trying to make the others feel safe and welcome.

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<v Speaker 4>A lot of the female teachers have spoken about this

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<v Speaker 4>incredible sadness as they've watched their female students slowly shut down,

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<v Speaker 4>not so much shrinking, because it's not as if they

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<v Speaker 4>really believe they're not taking what these boys are saying

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<v Speaker 4>on board.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's just too difficult to combat.

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<v Speaker 4>There's no point in engaging, so they stop talking. The

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<v Speaker 4>male students who aren't like that sort of stare out

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<v Speaker 4>the window, just in a desperate gaze of trying to

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<v Speaker 4>be anywhere but there.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's working.

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<v Speaker 4>It's sort of this misogyny that's really working in the classroom.

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<v Speaker 4>And that's really scary thing is that the female teachers

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<v Speaker 4>don't want to be there either.

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<v Speaker 3>After the break, what the women leaving teaching say is

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<v Speaker 3>happening in their classrooms and a female teachers are sounding

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<v Speaker 3>the alarm of Andrew takes influence in the classroom. What

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<v Speaker 3>kind of impact is it having on female teachers, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>how they feel about their jobs.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, well, I mean we're in a crisis at the

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<v Speaker 4>moment where there's not enough teachers or at a teacher shortage,

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<v Speaker 4>and women are leaving, they're leaving their profession. No one

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<v Speaker 4>knows entirely what the numbers are exactly. I did speak

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<v Speaker 4>to one female teacher who said, I'm out, I'm absolutely out.

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<v Speaker 4>I've got an interview next week for a desk job,

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<v Speaker 4>and she got that job. She's left teaching, and she

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<v Speaker 4>just said it was just too much. It would get

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<v Speaker 4>to the point where they were sharing porn and sort

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<v Speaker 4>of looking at her and snickering, and would she would

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<v Speaker 4>call it out, and it would just everything was an

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<v Speaker 4>invitation to do battle. And you know, she felt very

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<v Speaker 4>much unsupported by her the male leadership.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was something I.

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<v Speaker 4>Heard quite a lot of as well, that there's this

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<v Speaker 4>idea that it's because a women teacher if she's having

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<v Speaker 4>problems in her classroom it's because she hasn't got a

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<v Speaker 4>good sense of discipline.

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<v Speaker 2>She can't control her cohort.

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<v Speaker 4>The irony being is that if a man can control

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<v Speaker 4>his cohort, it's not necessarily because he's doing anything. It's

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<v Speaker 4>just because he's a man, so these boys respect him.

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<v Speaker 4>So she's sort of destined to fail before she's even

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<v Speaker 4>entered the room, just because of who and what she is.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's really troubling.

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<v Speaker 3>What's being done to address the impact this is having,

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<v Speaker 3>not just on kids in the classroom, but on teachers

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<v Speaker 3>as well.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, well, I mean I don't think anything's really been

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<v Speaker 4>done to support them. There's been some moves to address

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<v Speaker 4>the misogynistic attitudes in school and to deal with toxic

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<v Speaker 4>masculinity online. The federal government is trialing a Healthy Masculinities Project,

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<v Speaker 4>which is I think it's about a three point five

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<v Speaker 4>million dollar project, three year trial program to combat they

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<v Speaker 4>say harmful gender stereotypes perpetuated online. I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>that's great, it's good. I mean, understandably, I think female

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<v Speaker 4>teachers are a bit wary of you know, is this

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<v Speaker 4>actually going to be another thing on our plate to

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<v Speaker 4>deal with as opposed to what's going on here? Where

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<v Speaker 4>does this start? How can this end? And why is

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<v Speaker 4>it always you know, our plate to sort of unpack

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<v Speaker 4>these issues. I think Andrew tat is obviously a symptom

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<v Speaker 4>of a larger problem. It's the online manisphere, which is

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<v Speaker 4>sort of you know, it's a lure, and these boys

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<v Speaker 4>kind of fall into it. It's very comfortable answers to

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<v Speaker 4>uncomfortable questions having.

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<v Speaker 2>My own boys.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, they've only been on the earth for about

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<v Speaker 4>ten years, right, so through their eyes, they haven't done

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<v Speaker 4>an university degree. They don't they don't have this history

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<v Speaker 4>of feminism and oppression. All they see are these sort

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<v Speaker 4>of books telling girls that they're awesome, which is great,

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<v Speaker 4>these huge celebrations of female footballers. They don't have the

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<v Speaker 4>critical capacity to see, to look at Parliament and go,

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<v Speaker 4>oh well, actually it's mainly men. They don't have the

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<v Speaker 4>capacity to have that kind of critical analysis or to

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<v Speaker 4>understand why it's so important to redistribute power. So sometimes

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<v Speaker 4>I get frustrated at this idea of something that can

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<v Speaker 4>be dealt with with respectful relationship discussions and almost airy

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<v Speaker 4>fairy feelings, when I really think what these kids need

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<v Speaker 4>is a history lesson there is a reason why we're

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<v Speaker 4>doing redistribution of power. There is a reason while we're

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<v Speaker 4>trying to help women and girls see themselves as subjects,

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<v Speaker 4>not objects, and that is.

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<v Speaker 2>Because they're as a history.

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<v Speaker 4>When women tried to ride bicycles, people threw rocks at them,

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<v Speaker 4>When women tried to order a beer at pubs, men

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<v Speaker 4>poured beers over their head. When women tried to study

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<v Speaker 4>at Cambridge University, male students burnt effigies of women. There

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<v Speaker 4>is an absolute history to this, and if they don't

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<v Speaker 4>know it, how are they supposed to understand what's happening

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<v Speaker 4>right now?

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<v Speaker 3>And Anna, I think there's a tendency to kind of

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<v Speaker 3>write off influences in a way, you know, like despite

0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.720
<v Speaker 3>their name. You know, some people don't really take their

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.480
<v Speaker 3>influence seriously. You know, the impact that they have is

0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.720
<v Speaker 3>seen sometimes as a passing trend. And I guess that

0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.839
<v Speaker 3>often bears out someone could be really popular, but then

0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.400
<v Speaker 3>the world just moves on. Is that an argument that

0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.439
<v Speaker 3>we can apply here to Andrew Tait as well?

0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.439
<v Speaker 4>I guess we could apply it to the individual Andrew Tait.

0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:59.240
<v Speaker 4>For sure, he is already Yesterday's news. He's under house arrest.

0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:04.400
<v Speaker 4>Can watch videos of him pacing under house arrests, smoking

0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:08.320
<v Speaker 4>cigars and really quite troubled and he's getting out his

0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:12.600
<v Speaker 4>warrior mode at the moment. So he is yesterday's news.

0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.800
<v Speaker 4>There is absolutely no doubt that there's someone else who's

0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.600
<v Speaker 4>already risen in his place. I think there's too much

0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.040
<v Speaker 4>talk about protecting young people. I think there's just not

0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.880
<v Speaker 4>enough truth telling when it comes down to young people.

0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.680
<v Speaker 4>And even if you were to protect your child, your

0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:32.560
<v Speaker 4>cocoon your child and make sure that you're watching their

0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.960
<v Speaker 4>time on the internet, it doesn't matter. You're sending them

0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.440
<v Speaker 4>out to the world where the next door neighbors don't,

0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:42.160
<v Speaker 4>Which is why I just.

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:46.280
<v Speaker 2>Feel like they need to know history. History is so important.

0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:50.360
<v Speaker 4>We can talk to them about what to say when

0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:55.840
<v Speaker 4>someone says something. How do they actually know what's right

0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.720
<v Speaker 4>and what's wrong. How do you get that down into

0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.200
<v Speaker 4>their gut. I think that's the most important thing.

0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:06.440
<v Speaker 3>Ada, thanks so much for your time today.

0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:07.360
<v Speaker 2>Thanks Age.

0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:25.320
<v Speaker 1>We'll be back tomorrow with an episode about how the

0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.680
<v Speaker 1>most offensive duo on Australian radio we're handed a two

0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:32.000
<v Speaker 1>hundred million dollar contract, the gamble the network was making,

0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.360
<v Speaker 1>and what it means now that the bet seems to

0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:35.120
<v Speaker 1>have fallen apart.

0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.920
<v Speaker 9>I think aarn have been talking about the business of

0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.400
<v Speaker 9>Kyl and Jackie Oh and how that business is broken

0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 9>for a long time in boardrooms around the country. The

0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.280
<v Speaker 9>contract is insane. It should never have gone ahead.

0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James. Thanks for listening to seven AM. We'll

0:15:52.960 --> 0:16:01.240
<v Speaker 1>be back tomorrow.

0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:03.400
<v Speaker 4>Money